*bio* (kinda brief)
Born to an elvish couple near Everlund, Ivellios in his youth loved to hunt and run around in the wild. Never one for study or mischief he would usually be seen on trails and paths that others his age would find beneath them to explore, or only for grown ups to pass on.
At maturity he left his home to travel the world. He started by joining a mechant company in Everlund called The Silver Sickle. The group traveled between Silverymoon, Waterdeep, and Loudwater.
One fall eve as they were on their way out of Loudwater the group was ambushed by goblins. Outnumbered and nearly overrun they were able to hold off the goblin attack, however not without losses.
One of the members of the group, a Dwarf by the name of Eberk Stoneshield had fallen. Ivellios could not save him in time, but as Eberk was taking his last breath Ivellios grabbed his axes and swore vengenance upon the goblins that attacked them.
Since this day Ivellios has travelled the region assisting where he can.
(ok...I know it's not much but there it is)
Vitals:
Race: Elf
Gender: Male
Class: Ranger (two-weapon fighting style)
Level: 1
Alignment: Good
Region: Great Vale
Stats:
Str 18 (16 pts)
Con 13 (3 pts)
Dex 14 (2 pts, +2 race)
Int 8 (0 pts)
Wis 13 (1 pt, +2 race)
Cha 10 (0 pts)
HP: 32
Initiative: +1
Defenses:
AC: 16
Fort: 14
Ref: 13
Will: 11
changed from
Stats:
Str 16
Con 12
Dex 18
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 10
HP: 29
Initiative: +4
Defenses:
AC: 17
Fort: 14
Ref: 15
Will: 12
Stats:
Str 16
Con 12
Dex 18
Int 8
Wis 14
Cha 10
HP: 29
Initiative: +4
Defenses:
AC: 17
Fort: 14
Ref: 15
Will: 12
Picture is broken because the host site (Troll and Toad) doesn't allow hotlinking.
Weird I can see it. I'll try and fix it. It's the Elf Ranger from the Harbinger set.
*edit* Ok I used a different image source now. Does it work?
His attack bonus is weak which will severally hamper his DPR. As a striker, doing as much damage is possible is kind of your thing. Do you play up a lot? If so, that will make the problem even more frustrating.
Do you have a plan for this particular character? As he is now you can expect to slog through 10 levels of frustration before he can start doing cool stuff.
His attack bonus is weak which will severally hamper his DPR. As a striker, doing as much damage is possible is kind of your thing. Do you play up a lot? If so, that will make the problem even more frustrating.
If I'm with other players I know we'll probably play up. I don't see how his attack bonus is weak as going say double longswords would only enhance his attack bonus by 1. Now if you're also including the Str should be 18 as well then the defense becomes too poor to even get into melee...imho.
As far as stats are concerned I'm looking at boosting Strength and Con at each level if possible as this will enhance my to hit, and I need a high Con by Epic level for Axe Mastery.
His goal is to get into melee, preferably flanking with a defender, to dish out a lot of damage. Once I get my handaxe magical my first attack in a round will be to quarry my nearest target, throw the handaxe with a basic, move to that enemy (or another preferably with a flank), burn an action point and attack with a twf power.
At 2nd level I'm not sure if I should take the Rogue multiclass feat from the PHB or TWD.
I'll break some numbers down for you.
At level 1 you'll have +5 to hit. You can expect to be facing an average AC of 18 meaning you'll hit about 40% of the time.
At level 3 you'll have +7 to hit (3 str, 2 prof, 1 level, 1 magic). You'll still be in level 1-4 mods so you're hit rate will go up to 50%.
At level 5 you'll have +9 to hit (3 str, 2 prof, 2 level, 2 magic). At this point you'll be in 4-7 mods and be fighting things with average ACs around 21.
These numbers can change by 10% either way depending on if you are fighting a brute or a soldier or if you have combat advantage or other buffs. In general missing 50% of the time is very frustrating and very unfun.
I would suggest not being an elf if you're going for melee ranger. That build doesn't really pay off until paragon. If you're committed to being an elf I suggest swapping to +3 proficiency weapons until you get to paragon and then switching to scimitars.
If you are committed to following the mini I suggest dropping the ranger idea all together. I would go for elf tempest fighter.
Lastly, rogue multiclass will not work with any of these options. Sneak attack requires light blades.
If I'm with other players I know we'll probably play up.
LoLz!
I don't see how his attack bonus is weak as going say double longswords would only enhance his attack bonus by 1.
More LoLz... Also...
Now if you're also including the Str should be 18 as well then the defense becomes too poor to even get into melee...imho.
As far as stats are concerned I'm looking at boosting Strength and Con at each level if possible as this will enhance my to hit, and I need a high Con by Epic level for Axe Mastery.
His goal is to get into melee, preferably flanking with a defender, to dish out a lot of damage. Once I get my handaxe magical my first attack in a round will be to quarry my nearest target, throw the handaxe with a basic, move to that enemy (or another preferably with a flank), burn an action point and attack with a twf power.
At 2nd level I'm not sure if I should take the Rogue multiclass feat from the PHB or TWD.
#1. The reason your attack bonus is bad is because you are a striker with a 16 in your attack stat. You have an attack bonus of +5 at level 1. That is terrible. A lot of high attack PCs already use +3 prof weapons.
#1b. I see tons of Attack Stat 20 PCs that use the most accurate weapons they can find. Let's compare the
#2. Boosting stats with discretionary level up boosts is retarded for stats below a starting score of 13. If you want to do Str/Con ups at each level (which is quite the combo for TWF, as you can easily start down the armor feats!), you should start with a Con of at least 13. If you are really that hard up for a Dex of 18, you can instead have it start at 17, and bump it to 18 at level 4. That savings (16 before racials downgrading to 15) gets you 2 points back. So you could do Con 13 and Wis 15. It is this way because under the 4e point buy rules, upto 13 is +1 for 1 point. 14 is 2 more than 13. Level up boosts are 1 for 1, so they are most valuable when applied to stats that are already high.
#3. Getting a 20 in the attack stat seems to do more for PC survival than an extra +1 or +2 in an ALREADY low defense. Tons of monsters you will face have like +9's against a NAD. In those cases, your real defense is HP and a good surge value.
Each +2 in the attack stack is +1 to hit and +1 to damage.
#4. Finally, the Two Weapon Fighting feat is inferior to Weapon Focus at level 1. Furthermore, Weapon Focus is inferior to Weapon Proficiency at level 1.
Ranger "damage" feats go in this order: Weapon Proficiency (for a bigger die that averages +1 to damage per die), Weapon Focus, Lethal Hunter. I am not even sure where Two-Weapon Fighting comes in... Maybe... level 6?
The reason why is because bigger die for the weapon is the same as Weapon Focus at heroic tier (as it applies to average damage) when using 1[W] attacks, but there are some 2[W] attacks available.
Weapon Focus is best AFTER Proficiency because it applies to each damage roll.
Lethal Hunter is 3rd because it increases the Quarry damage by a die size (+1 average). Now this only beats Two-Weapon Fighting because Two-Weapon Fighting only applies to the Main weapon. When you use Twin Strike, you are just as likely to hit with your off-hand weapon, but miss with your main as you are to hit with main and miss with off-hand.
The weapons to really look at for DPR (and as a Striker, that is your role) is the Bastard Sword. At least at Heroic Tier. The only reason to not use a +3 Prof weapon at Heroic Tier is because you want a magic weapon that can't be on a +3 Prof weapon. Or there isn't a +3 Prof available (like ranged weapons, the great crossbow might be a +3, but reload minor almost destroys rangers who need minor actions to quarry).
Things can change a bit at Paragon Tier. Dancing Scimitar + Stormwarden makes Scimitars pretty damn damaging, especially since it already has High Crit. That isn't to say it is worth having more Dex than Str. Especially since you have to get there.
#5. How does being better at meleeing make it worse to go into melee? The answer is you are wrong. Also, a lot of melee monsters attack your AC. This just means you will have to use feats on Armor Proficiency eventually. This just sort of leads back to Rangers being a bit "meh" at melee. It also means that Elves are bad at being melee Rangers.
#6. HANDAXE? Why are you even a Two-Weapon Ranger if you aren't going to take advantage of the ability to ignore the the off-hand weapon size restriction?
...but I didn't. So is the mini listed above (in OP) useless? Obsolete? A waste of WotC's money because it's "sub-optimal"? Should WotC only make minis of race/weapon selection that are optimal because the player will hit as often with that choice (and etc)?
Sorry if this comes off as impolite however this reminds me a lot of the M:tG boards. "Don't play that card, play this one!"
Sure while that might work for tournament players (and they have since restructured their boards for those who focus on such) I wasn't aware that building a DnD character used the same mindset.
I understand what you posted about weapon selections, their bonuses, and etc...however I am not playing either of these:
...so this (the mini in the OP) is what I have to work with.
I had him built in 3.0/3.5 however I was usually the DM so I never got a chance to play him, and had to rebuild him for 4th.
If I had to redo the stats again I would probably go with this:
*after racials*
Str 17 (12 pts)
Con 13 (3 pts)
Dex 17 (7 pts)
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 8
(Int/Cha interchangeable)
This way I can spend points on Str and Dex during Heroic Tier, then at 14th and 18th boost Str and Con (or Str/Con then Dex/Con), and finish off with Str/Dex during Epic (Con will be 17 at 21st).
My Paragon Path of choice is the Avalanche Hurler (from Martial Power), again chosen after my choice of race, class, and weapons.
I also chose Ranger over Fighter as I already have two defenders (my Swordmage who I had to nearly rebuild to fix, and my Half-Elf Paladin) so why build another?
The reason I chose the handaxe is because I can do this when needed in one turn once I get a magical handaxe:
Quarry nearest target, throw handaxe at it, move in to melee, spend an action point, use daily power (reroll with Elven ability if needed).
This would set up a flank right away with a defender, or another striker (if there's a Rogue in the party, or a Barbarian).
I may get Waraxe however I don't know when. I chose TWF for TWD as I am focusing on light armor.
...those are my reasons...sorry if they are 'sub-optimal'...
You asked for our thoughts and we gave them to you. If you are cool with missing 50% of the time then go ahead and use your build as originally presented, I'm sure you'll have a blast.
Your comments were fine, and appreciated. All comments are appreciated...it's just I don't want 4th edition to turn into situations where everyone is playing the same type of armor and using the same weapons "because you win" with them.
Sometimes my idea for characters comes from looking at the minis I own. Sometimes the ideas come from looking at the books.
I rarely consider the defenses of what the DM throws at me as I kind of find that leaning towards meta-gaming (my opinion). Plus I'm trying to consider other players in this area and what types of classes/styles aren't played. Often times when I play my Swordmage there's 4 Defenders (2 Fighters, 1 Paladin) and a Striker.
Thanks for mentioning that issue with Sneak Attack. Somehow I missed that. I need to pick up the Thievery skill (another skill many here don't have) some way so I might as well burn a feat on it.
I'm like you. Either I found a cool mini and build a PC around it or I do it with a picture I found I want to use as a character portrait.
Your comments were fine, and appreciated. All comments are appreciated...it's just I don't want 4th edition to turn into situations where everyone is playing the same type of armor and using the same weapons "because you win" with them.
The problem isn't just "This combo is statistically better." The big problem is that there are some modules that have monsters with insane defenses. So while you might be able to pull off a +5 attack bonus (although I doubt it, I have a +5 attack bonus PC, but his attacks are against Ref and Will, quite a bit lower than AC, I miss quite often).
Sometimes my idea for characters comes from looking at the minis I own. Sometimes the ideas come from looking at the books.
Unfortunately, with only one real exception, 4e greatly rewards picking a race that has a +2 bonus to your primary stat.
The one exception is Dwarves. Second Winding as a minor action instead of a standard action is a pretty big bonus. It is like an extra standard action per fight. But even Dwarves benefit from an 18 in the attack stat (assuming it is not Con or Wis, in which case it should probably be a 20). However Dwarves have a second "punishment" for a lot of their PCs in that Dwarven Weapon Training encourages Axes and Hammers... That is another ding to the attack bonus.
I rarely consider the defenses of what the DM throws at me as I kind of find that leaning towards meta-gaming (my opinion).
It is metagaming, but it matters because the fact is, LFR (a lot like LG) tends to have 1 or 2 monsters that are APL+4 (or more). I played in a LOW TIER game with a level "6" monster (it was "adjusted" down from 7). AC was effectively 26. I played through it at level 1, if you play through it at level 1, your PC can't get critical hits on it (because a natural 20 doesn't hit its AC, it hits, it just isn't a critical hit).
So there might be some modules where your +5 gets by, but there are a lot of other modules where you are practically useless.
Another note: Setting aside the ambiguous "This what the number you need to hit" (which varies from module to module), it is a fact that I think all of us can agree on that "A higher attack bonus is better than a lower attack bonus." And since you are a Striker, you should probably build the best Attack Bonus you can (since your role is to deal damage).
Even if you rely on flanking with your ranger, that +2 situational bonus, isn't a bonus that guys that have a standing attack bonus of +8 or +9 (at level 1 without a magic item) aren't also getting.
Plus I'm trying to consider other players in this area and what types of classes/styles aren't played. Often times when I play my Swordmage there's 4 Defenders (2 Fighters, 1 Paladin) and a Striker.
Thanks for mentioning that issue with Sneak Attack. Somehow I missed that. I need to pick up the Thievery skill (another skill many here don't have) some way so I might as well burn a feat on it.
Skill Training can get you Thievery without locking out your multiclass feat option (I recommend Student of Battle or Initiate of the Faith--daily Words are great).
I've had a big discussion about stats with some friends. The only time a PC shouldn't have an 18 before racials in the attack stat is if the PC is a Warlord (although Bravura Warlords can probably pull off a 20 in Strength).
The best general array for Strikers, Defenders, and Controllers is 18/14/11/10/10/8 before racials. And the best place to put the 11 is in Con (if the 14 isn't there already).
TWF Ranger: Str 18, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 10 (before racials). If you want to do an Elf, than that is Str 18, Con 14, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10. But you'll want to use Longswords anyway.
P.S.: I am biased against Two-Weapon PCs because that is one more magic item to collect. The one major exception is Double Swords. Double Swords are nice, even if only the primary head can deliver item powers... and perhaps only benefits from weapon properties. The fact that both ends get the Enhancement bonus and the crit benefit is a boon.
I could do this:
Str 18 (16 pts)
Con 12 (2 pts)
Dex 15 (3 pts)
Int 8
Wis 13 (1 pt)
Cha 10
However AC with Hide is only 15, until I can pick up TFD (at 2nd, making AC 17). Focus should be on boosting Str and Con right?
Making this (at 11th):
Str 21
Con 15
Dex 16
Int 9
Wis 14
Cha 11
AC at 11th level (before feat choices) would be 24 (10 base + 5 for level + 3 for Dex mod + 3 for Hide + 2 for enchantment +1 for TWD). Picking up Hide Armor Specialization gives an extra point to AC (25).
With the stats like this:
Str 17 (12 pts)
Con 13 (3 pts)
Dex 17 (7 pts)
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 10
At 11th level this is what the stats would be:
Str 20
Con 14
Dex 20
Int 9
Wis 13
Cha 11
AC would be 26 and to hit is +14 (+5 for level + 5 for Str mod +2 for proficency + 2 for enchantment). Str and Con are boosted at 14th and 18th level (picking up Hide Specialization at 14th) this way.
With the build in the OP at 11th level:
Str 19
Con 15
Dex 19
Int 9
Wis 15
Cha 11
My to hit is +13, and AC is 26 as I would pick up Hide Proficency at 11th level (25 AC before feat).
So in the end I'm reworking my stats just to get an extra +1 to hit by 11th level.
If I would get stressed out by that extra +1 I think I should find some other game to play (like Solitare).
Thoughts now after I break it down some more?
We're telling you your build is bad. I have provided simple ways to improve your build without deviating too far from the original concept. You are free to disregard our advice.
Since dealing big damage seems to be your primary motivation here is some food for thought.
Lets assume the following. By level 4 your have weapon focus, two-weapon fighting, and a +1 weapon.
Attack Bonus +8 (3 str, 2 prof, 2 level, 1 magic). You'll be doing 1d10+2 (+3 with mainhand) assuming you pickup weapon focus at 2 or 4.
That puts your DPR against a target with AC 18 at 11.82. Does that sound like big damage?
An elven tempest fighter with 18 strength wielding the same weapons (with two blade warrior) as your build against the same target has a DPR of 13.475. His attack bonus is +10 (4 str, 2 prof, 2 level, 1 magic, 1 fighter talent). That's right you will be doing less damage than the defender.
I can break the numbers down further if you would like.
This has nothing to do with being optimized. None of my characters are "optimized". We are trying to get your character to viable.
I can't say as I care too much for the optimization-uber-alles approach to character building. I generally go for a more even spread when designing my own characters, and the highest I have on any of mine is an 18 int on my eladrin swordmage, with intelligent blademaster--and that's after racials. Mostly I'd prefer 2 or 3 16s to one 20, and everyone at the tables I play or run more or less agrees. We haven't run into any trouble yet.
People are already complaining elsewhere that LFR is too easy, and the indications seem to be pointing to the "you must be optimized to avoid TPK" method of design being left behind. That said, is it really so vital to be maximizing your build to eke out every last bit of combat effectiveness in an environment that's not even really challenging underoptimized groups (read: the people I play with, who don't buy into the "no attack stat under 20" idea)?
Look at it another way: Skill challenges are a part of nearly every LFR module--I can think of one in the first two rounds that doesn't feature at least one skill challenge. Sure, you can optimize your 20 attack stats, but unless you're playing a cleric that's going to gimp you to a greater or lesser extent for skill challenges, which are meant to equate to a combat encounter.
Let's break that down, shall we?
Strength is the stat for a total of one skill (Athletics). Constitution likewise affects just one skill (Endurance). Dexterity is slightly better, being the basis for 3 (Acrobatics, Stealth, and Thievery). Intelligence also covers 3 (Arcana, History, Religion), and Wisdom a whopping 5 (Dungeoneering, Heal, Insight, Nature, Perception), with Charisma coming in second with the remaining four (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Streetwise.)
With your build as it is, you gain +1 to all untrained skills based on wisdom, a -1 to the Intelligence based skills, a flat-out d20 for Charisma, +1 to Endurance, +3 to Athletics, and +3 to the Dex-based skills. As a ranger, you get five trained skills, which is pretty good, but you're only going to manage to get a +8 at best, and that in only three possible skills. The majority of your trained skills are going to be at plus 6. If you are playing up, standard DC for skill challenges at level 1 is 16, meaning you need to roll a 10 on 1d20 to succeed at a skill check, if your trained skills even apply to the challenge. That means that on average, you will only be able to succeed at skill challenge checks 50% of the time.
If you enjoy failing your skill rolls 50% of the time, go ahead and run it as-is, I'm sure you'll have a blast.
Granted that argument is slightly facile, given that at best skill challenges account for perhaps 2/5ths of any given LFR adventure, but that's where the meat of the roleplaying time is. Combat situations, good tactical choices can make up for that +1 or +2 higher that you get by pouring everything into your combat stats, but in my experience there's absolutely nothing in LFR that's going to require you to hit 100% of the time in combat to succeed. If you miss a few times in a combat encounter, you're not screwing the party out of experience or rewards for successful skill challenge completion, you're just making it take a round or two longer. Remember that even to go from a 16 to a 20 in your attack skill it only actually gives you 10% more chance to hit, which is not bad, but it hardly makes building the other way "terrible".
There're plenty of situations where an optimized combat build is ideal, like delves or home campaigns with skill challenges de-emphasized, or specific challenge encounters designed to test resource management with low roleplaying. For my money I'd rather play with a guy who wants to make a character on a specific concept for the way it looks than with someone whose every choice is dictated by maximizing the numbers with no regard to character concept or roleplaying.
(Also: Ferol, when you calculated DPR, did you include the quarry damage in that calculation? Are you factoring in that with twin-strike he will be attacking twice per round? It's hard to see with the numbers you've set down as end results when you're not showing your work. Also: Tempest fighters sacrifice fighter talent, do they not?)
Another option, though one your stats don't currently support, for getting access to Thievery, would be to take Warlock MC. It takes a minimum of Cha 13, but it's probably a better option than vanilla skill training if you're willing to shuffle your ability scores around to support it.
All else aside though, planning a character to start being fun around level 11 isn't the best approach whether you want to take it combat oriented or otherwise; we won't see that level of play until late 2009, and until then you may be frustrated, as the other fine gentlemen (and ladies?) have observed.
Y'know, I didn't post originally because all you had was a bunch of numbers, with no concept beyond "Based off this mini" and a link to a pic that didn't at the time show up. If all you have are numbers, expect the numbers people to comment.
I can't say as I care too much for the optimization-uber-alles approach to character building. I generally go for a more even spread when designing my own characters, and the highest I have on any of mine is an 18 int on my eladrin swordmage, with intelligent blademaster--and that's after racials. Mostly I'd prefer 2 or 3 16s to one 20, and everyone at the tables I play or run more or less agrees. We haven't run into any trouble yet.
People are already complaining elsewhere that LFR is too easy, and the indications seem to be pointing to the "you must be optimized to avoid TPK" method of design being left behind. That said, is it really so vital to be maximizing your build to eke out every last bit of combat effectiveness in an environment that's not even really challenging underoptimized groups (read: the people I play with, who don't buy into the "no attack stat under 20" idea)?
Look at it another way: Skill challenges are a part of nearly every LFR module--I can think of one in the first two rounds that doesn't feature at least one skill challenge. Sure, you can optimize your 20 attack stats, but unless you're playing a cleric that's going to gimp you to a greater or lesser extent for skill challenges, which are meant to equate to a combat encounter.
Let's break that down, shall we?
Strength is the stat for a total of one skill (Athletics). Constitution likewise affects just one skill (Endurance). Dexterity is slightly better, being the basis for 3 (Acrobatics, Stealth, and Thievery). Intelligence also covers 3 (Arcana, History, Religion), and Wisdom a whopping 5 (Dungeoneering, Heal, Insight, Nature, Perception), with Charisma coming in second with the remaining four (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Streetwise.)
With your build as it is, you gain +1 to all untrained skills based on wisdom, a -1 to the Intelligence based skills, a flat-out d20 for Charisma, +1 to Endurance, +3 to Athletics, and +3 to the Dex-based skills. As a ranger, you get five trained skills, which is pretty good, but you're only going to manage to get a +8 at best, and that in only three possible skills. The majority of your trained skills are going to be at plus 6. If you are playing up, standard DC for skill challenges at level 1 is 16, meaning you need to roll a 10 on 1d20 to succeed at a skill check, if your trained skills even apply to the challenge. That means that on average, you will only be able to succeed at skill challenge checks 50% of the time.
If you enjoy failing your skill rolls 50% of the time, go ahead and run it as-is, I'm sure you'll have a blast.
Granted that argument is slightly facile, given that at best skill challenges account for perhaps 2/5ths of any given LFR adventure, but that's where the meat of the roleplaying time is. Combat situations, good tactical choices can make up for that +1 or +2 higher that you get by pouring everything into your combat stats, but in my experience there's absolutely nothing in LFR that's going to require you to hit 100% of the time in combat to succeed. If you miss a few times in a combat encounter, you're not screwing the party out of experience or rewards for successful skill challenge completion, you're just making it take a round or two longer. Remember that even to go from a 16 to a 20 in your attack skill it only actually gives you 10% more chance to hit, which is not bad, but it hardly makes building the other way "terrible".
There're plenty of situations where an optimized combat build is ideal, like delves or home campaigns with skill challenges de-emphasized, or specific challenge encounters designed to test resource management with low roleplaying. For my money I'd rather play with a guy who wants to make a character on a specific concept for the way it looks than with someone whose every choice is dictated by maximizing the numbers with no regard to character concept or roleplaying.
(Also: Ferol, when you calculated DPR, did you include the quarry damage in that calculation? Are you factoring in that with twin-strike he will be attacking twice per round? It's hard to see with the numbers you've set down as end results when you're not showing your work. Also: Tempest fighters sacrifice fighter talent, do they not?)
Another option, though one your stats don't currently support, for getting access to Thievery, would be to take Warlock MC. It takes a minimum of Cha 13, but it's probably a better option than vanilla skill training if you're willing to shuffle your ability scores around to support it.
All else aside though, planning a character to start being fun around level 11 isn't the best approach whether you want to take it combat oriented or otherwise; we won't see that level of play until late 2009, and until then you may be frustrated, as the other fine gentlemen (and ladies?) have observed.
Like I said, the suggestions I made have nothing to do with being optimized. If we were going that route I would suggest not being an elf all together.
Yes, my math included quarry and the fact that there are two attacks.
No, tempest does not give up fighter weapon talent.
I would be suspect of someone who doesn't show their math as well. Here it is for anyone who cares. I was off a bit. I forgot to max the quarry damage in the crit. The fighter still ends up ahead by quite a bit.
Ranger
+8 to hit, 1d10+2.5 per attack plus 1d6 quarry
Hit with one attack 50% of the time (5.5 + 1 magic + 1 focus + .5 TWF + 3.5 Quarry, 11.5 average) * DPR contribution 5.75
Two attacks hit 25% of the time (11.0 + 2 magic +2 focus +1 TWF + 3.5 Quarry, 19.5 average) * DPR contribution 4.875
Crit with one attack 5% of the time (10 +1 magic + 1 focus + .5 TWF + 6 Quarry + 3.5 crit, 22 average) * DPR contribution 1.1
Crit with two attacks 0.25% of the time (20 + 2 magic +2 focus + 1 TWF + 6 Quarry + 7 crit, 38 average) * DPR contribution 0.095
Total DPR 11.82
Tempest Fighter
+10 to hit, 1d10+3.5 per attack
Hit with one attack 60% of the time (5.5 + 1 magic + 1 focus + .5 TWF + 1 tempest, 9 average) * DPR contribution 5.4
Two attacks hit 36% of the time (11.0 + 2 magic +2 focus +1 TWF + 2 tempest, 18 average) * DPR contribution 6.48
Crit with one attack 5% of the time (10 +1 magic + 1 focus + .5 TWF + 1 tempest + 3.5 crit, 17 average) * DPR contribution 0.85
Crit with two attacks 0.25% of the time (20 + 2 magic +2 focus + 1 TWF + 2 tempest + 7 crit, 34 average) * DPR contribution 0.085
Total DPR 12.815
A 16 in your primary stat is going to make playing high a little bland. As a DM, I would never attack you, I would even let you OA me as I run by trying to take out your wizard and/or warlock. Its better to get some advice on where to place stats now-rather than 3 or 4 levels down the road.
Why not just play low? There is nothing wrong with playing low if you have a certain vision and want that to translate to the LFR tabletop.
Either way, try and maximize your hit %. Tempest fighter I think would be much better than the ranger as well. You should make that mini as fierce in combat as he looks!
Y'know, I didn't post originally because all you had was a bunch of numbers, with no concept beyond "Based off this mini" and a link to a pic that didn't at the time show up. If all you have are numbers, expect the numbers people to comment.
Point taken...so I edited a brief bio in there.
In looking over my characters since my previous post, I've noticed that I tend to aim for an 18 after racials in the primary attack stat at minimum, but I don't mind missing 5% more from having an 18 instead of a 20 in a primary attack stat if it means I get 5% more to one or two other stats applied to skills. Even my idiotic scythe-wielding tiefling swordmage has an 18 Intelligence, though his weapon of choice is so sub-optimal as to be laughable, which was basically my intention to begin with--the concept was "Hey I could make a swordmage with a scythe, that's so stupid I have to do it." Regardless, I'm a bit shamefaced for decrying what I apparently do myself.
Setting that aside, though: It seems to me that the tempest fighter build Ferol is proposing leaves the character concept intact while simultaneously making it more effective, which is probably perfect. The only issue I could see is that you'll not really have the same skill spread and you'll have to go even deeper into feats to get both stealth and thievery, which seemed to be an implied goal for this character. Personally my suggestion there would be to skip that aspect and roll a different character entirely to cover that angle--a rogue or a warlock could do that much easier, by design. You've not really mentioned that aspect in awhile though, so perhaps it's not even an issue?
Yes, if everyone is taking 20s and then mustering into balanced parties, it works out pretty well. But that's the hidden cost.
That said, the issue is what you're doing with stats. You're taking a non-Str/Con race and boosting those stats. But not exclusively and you're not using a weapon that takes advantage of either those stats or your other stats. That's going to leave you with weak overall defenses(especially AC), low damage, and make your Wisdom skill checks relatively poor. Using a +2 Prof weapon is what is the nail in the coffin. Ignoring double weapons isn't a great choice either.
There's nothing wrong with a 16 attack stat - you just need to decide how you're going to focus everything else. If you have an 18 Dex and always raise it, then you can get away with wearing Hide Armor and go Storm Warden. If you have an 18 Wis/13 Con, you get Chainmail, then Scalemail for feats, and go Pitfighter via Fighter Multiclassing. If you have a 16 Con/14 Wis, then you get Chainmail/Scalemail and eventually get Hammer Rhythm for use with dual hammers.
You can get away with a lot of the things you're describing in Heroic, but come Paragon, you won't really have a place to go, and you'll notice the difference.
Thoughts?
Personally, i would drop your dex score to boost your con. If you're a TWF the extra HPs will be a help since you'll be up in the fighting.
True I could do that, then bump Dex twice during Heroic so it is 15 by Paragon levels (needed for Scale Mail Specialization).
Con would be set for Epic without any bumps (at 21st it'll be 17) so I can focus on Str and Wis. Yes...I'm paranoid about my Will Defense with all my characters.
Weird I can see it.
As an aside, this is because if you have visited the actual site before, the image is stored in your computer's memory cache.
When you later look at a link to it, the computer to save time just shows the copy that's in your cache instead of trying to connect all the way back to the original web server.
It's like you sending someone out to get a document. Later you want to look at the document again, so you ask that person to get it. Rather than traveling all the way back to the original place he got it from, he just shows you the copy he got the first time.
Since a new person looking at the image won't have it in their memory cache yet, their computer tries to go grab a copy from the source. But in this case the source blocks directly looking at images (you have to look at the whole web page to see the image), so you get a "image not found" error.
-karma
By the way, I'd really take those three points you used in constitution and put them into the dex score. If you got a good meat shield there isn't much worry of being hit in melee combat as long as the party knows what they are doing.