Minotaurs & Oversized Weapons - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Minotaurs & Oversized Weapons

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
eudemonist
Dec 18, 2008 8:47:30 It's recently come to my attention that the Minotaur writeup in Dragon magazine lacks the "Oversized Weapon" ability found in the D&D Compendium and the Monster Manual. The Dragon mag is the official LFR source, right? No indication that said omission was accidental, correct? I can take away people's oversized Brutal-2-on-2d6 axes now, yes?
#2
sdrowsfognik
Dec 18, 2008 8:53:42
It's recently come to my attention that the Minotaur writeup in Dragon magazine lacks the "Oversized Weapon" ability found in the D&D Compendium and the Monster Manual. The Dragon mag is the official LFR source, right? No indication that said omission was accidental, correct? I can take away people's oversized Brutal-2-on-2d6 axes now, yes?

Yes absolutely. Take them away. Kill it with fire. Official minotaurs do not have oversized.
#3
mwao_dup
Dec 18, 2008 9:25:45 Mike Mearls has also indicated that he will not let oversized into a player race. So even if it somehow accidentally got in, expect it to get killed in errata.
#4
eudemonist
Dec 18, 2008 9:31:33 Sweet. My players are gonna hate it, but I kinda thought it was a little strong and potentially abusable.
#5
Solodan
Dec 18, 2008 9:48:31 Oversized was never legal in LFR to my knowledge, so your players got to enjoy sweet brokenness for a short while.
#6
eudemonist
Dec 18, 2008 10:06:59 That's what I get for trusting those sneeky players...

EDIT: This is sarcasm. I trust my players and am confident it was an unintentional mistake. Just to clarify.
#7
mwao_dup
Dec 18, 2008 11:04:40
Oversized was never legal in LFR to my knowledge, so your players got to enjoy sweet brokenness for a short while.

Minotaurs in Dragon never had it - I was just saying that Mike Mearls had indicated that he would never allow it to happen.
#8
akodoreign
Dec 18, 2008 11:58:08 wonder if he will ban the epic defender epic path then?
#9
mwao_dup
Dec 18, 2008 12:22:15
wonder if he will ban the epic defender epic path then?

As a racial ability.
#10
Dragon9
Dec 18, 2008 16:14:34 Makes me wonder what they're going to do with Goliaths in the PHB 2.
#11
dkay807
Dec 18, 2008 17:28:28
Makes me wonder what they're going to do with Goliaths in the PHB 2.

I can tell you this much: they won't have the "oversized" racial quality (as written in the Monster Manual).
#12
Dragon9
Dec 18, 2008 20:53:48 Well, yeah. :P That was sort of their "schtick" when they appeared in 3.X though. So I'm wondering what their "schtick" will be in 4e.
#13
kinevon
Dec 18, 2008 23:07:10 Powerful build, whatever that gives...
#14
pint_glass_crusader
Dec 19, 2008 4:14:27 Probably like Dwarves, you won't be able to push them about, or they find it easy to push/shift/pull other creatures.

That's where my money is going...
#15
Dragon9
Dec 19, 2008 8:52:31 Maybe they'll have a racial option to use Strength for HP calculation instead of Con.
#16
anubis_reynard
Dec 20, 2008 22:44:09 Or, possibly, Oversized as a Racial feat. That would put it roughly on par with the Dwarven and Eladrin weapon training feats- not something to bother with if you are a caster, for example.
#17
_metz_
Dec 20, 2008 23:16:24
Or, possibly, Oversized as a Racial feat. That would put it roughly on par with the Dwarven and Eladrin weapon training feats- not something to bother with if you are a caster, for example.

No it doesn't. Not at all.

Especially when you consider brutal/the fact that many powers use multiple weapon damage.
#18
anubis_reynard
Dec 20, 2008 23:32:27
No it doesn't. Not at all.

Especially when you consider brutal/the fact that many powers use multiple weapon damage.

As opposed to free weapon proficencies, and an untyped bonus of +2.

The racial feats regularly allow +1 weapon damage,(from Superior weapons) and +2 extra.
#19
Mirtek
Dec 21, 2008 5:01:33
As opposed to free weapon proficencies, and an untyped bonus of +2.

The racial feats regularly allow +1 weapon damage,(from Superior weapons) and +2 extra.

The +2 is applied only once for all [W] and only in heroic tier is it higher than weapon focus. In paragon tier it provides only the advantage of having weapon focus and weapon proficiency rolled together into a single feat (and thus is more or less equal to the human racial power of getting an extra feat) and in epic tier it's slightly weaker than taking weapon focus and weapon proficiency seperately.

An oversized weapon would provide the advantage for each [W] and throughout all tiers
#20
_Mithreinmaethor_
Dec 21, 2008 8:14:43
The +2 is applied only once for all [W] and only in heroic tier is it higher than weapon focus. In paragon tier it provides only the advantage of having weapon focus and weapon proficiency rolled together into a single feat (and thus is more or less equal to the human racial power of getting an extra feat) and in epic tier it's slightly weaker than taking weapon focus and weapon proficiency seperately.

An oversized weapon would provide the advantage for each [W] and throughout all tiers

+1
#21
Dragon9
Dec 21, 2008 9:11:11 Yeah, a large weapon, especially when you start looking at the Brutal weapons, becomes moe powerful than the feats. Takign the Execution axe as an example. Medium size it's 1d12, large it's 2d6. Being Brutal 2, all 1s and 2s being rerolled, the average damage for the medium execution axe is 8.5, where as the average for the large is 10 (with 2 dice being rolled you can only roll between 6-12 as opposed to 3-12). So that's basically an extra 1.5 per W.

1[W] = +1.5. 2[W] = +3, etc. That's pretty strong for a racial feat. So I doubt that would happen. Well, that and Mike Mearls' statement taken into account.
#22
anubis_reynard
Dec 21, 2008 14:49:34 The other alternative, is to give them a racial weapon training feat, for ALL the "big" superior weapons- Basically any superior melee weapon with a +2 proficency. And it adds +2 damage, just like the others.

So, Warax, Mordencrad, Executioner's ax... all for 1 feat, with +2 damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 eudemonist Dec 18, 2008 8:47:30	It's recently come to my attention that the Minotaur writeup in Dragon magazine lacks the "Oversized Weapon" ability found in the D&D Compendium and the Monster Manual. The Dragon mag is the official LFR source, right? No indication that said omission was accidental, correct? I can take away people's oversized Brutal-2-on-2d6 axes now, yes?
#2 sdrowsfognik Dec 18, 2008 8:53:42	It's recently come to my attention that the Minotaur writeup in Dragon magazine lacks the "Oversized Weapon" ability found in the D&D Compendium and the Monster Manual. The Dragon mag is the official LFR source, right? No indication that said omission was accidental, correct? I can take away people's oversized Brutal-2-on-2d6 axes now, yes? Yes absolutely. Take them away. Kill it with fire. Official minotaurs do not have oversized.
#3 mwao_dup Dec 18, 2008 9:25:45	Mike Mearls has also indicated that he will not let oversized into a player race. So even if it somehow accidentally got in, expect it to get killed in errata.
#4 eudemonist Dec 18, 2008 9:31:33	Sweet. My players are gonna hate it, but I kinda thought it was a little strong and potentially abusable.
#5 Solodan Dec 18, 2008 9:48:31	Oversized was never legal in LFR to my knowledge, so your players got to enjoy sweet brokenness for a short while.
#6 eudemonist Dec 18, 2008 10:06:59	That's what I get for trusting those sneeky players... EDIT: This is sarcasm. I trust my players and am confident it was an unintentional mistake. Just to clarify.
#7 mwao_dup Dec 18, 2008 11:04:40	Oversized was never legal in LFR to my knowledge, so your players got to enjoy sweet brokenness for a short while. Minotaurs in Dragon never had it - I was just saying that Mike Mearls had indicated that he would never allow it to happen.
#8 akodoreign Dec 18, 2008 11:58:08	wonder if he will ban the epic defender epic path then?
#9 mwao_dup Dec 18, 2008 12:22:15	wonder if he will ban the epic defender epic path then? As a racial ability.
#10 Dragon9 Dec 18, 2008 16:14:34	Makes me wonder what they're going to do with Goliaths in the PHB 2.
#11 dkay807 Dec 18, 2008 17:28:28	Makes me wonder what they're going to do with Goliaths in the PHB 2. I can tell you this much: they won't have the "oversized" racial quality (as written in the Monster Manual).
#12 Dragon9 Dec 18, 2008 20:53:48	Well, yeah. :P That was sort of their "schtick" when they appeared in 3.X though. So I'm wondering what their "schtick" will be in 4e.
#13 kinevon Dec 18, 2008 23:07:10	Powerful build, whatever that gives...
#14 pint_glass_crusader Dec 19, 2008 4:14:27	Probably like Dwarves, you won't be able to push them about, or they find it easy to push/shift/pull other creatures. That's where my money is going...
#15 Dragon9 Dec 19, 2008 8:52:31	Maybe they'll have a racial option to use Strength for HP calculation instead of Con.
#16 anubis_reynard Dec 20, 2008 22:44:09	Or, possibly, Oversized as a Racial feat. That would put it roughly on par with the Dwarven and Eladrin weapon training feats- not something to bother with if you are a caster, for example.
#17 _metz_ Dec 20, 2008 23:16:24	Or, possibly, Oversized as a Racial feat. That would put it roughly on par with the Dwarven and Eladrin weapon training feats- not something to bother with if you are a caster, for example. No it doesn't. Not at all. Especially when you consider brutal/the fact that many powers use multiple weapon damage.
#18 anubis_reynard Dec 20, 2008 23:32:27	No it doesn't. Not at all. Especially when you consider brutal/the fact that many powers use multiple weapon damage. As opposed to free weapon proficencies, and an untyped bonus of +2. The racial feats regularly allow +1 weapon damage,(from Superior weapons) and +2 extra.
#19 Mirtek Dec 21, 2008 5:01:33	As opposed to free weapon proficencies, and an untyped bonus of +2. The racial feats regularly allow +1 weapon damage,(from Superior weapons) and +2 extra. The +2 is applied only once for all [W] and only in heroic tier is it higher than weapon focus. In paragon tier it provides only the advantage of having weapon focus and weapon proficiency rolled together into a single feat (and thus is more or less equal to the human racial power of getting an extra feat) and in epic tier it's slightly weaker than taking weapon focus and weapon proficiency seperately. An oversized weapon would provide the advantage for each [W] and throughout all tiers
#20 _Mithreinmaethor_ Dec 21, 2008 8:14:43	The +2 is applied only once for all [W] and only in heroic tier is it higher than weapon focus. In paragon tier it provides only the advantage of having weapon focus and weapon proficiency rolled together into a single feat (and thus is more or less equal to the human racial power of getting an extra feat) and in epic tier it's slightly weaker than taking weapon focus and weapon proficiency seperately. An oversized weapon would provide the advantage for each [W] and throughout all tiers +1
#21 Dragon9 Dec 21, 2008 9:11:11	Yeah, a large weapon, especially when you start looking at the Brutal weapons, becomes moe powerful than the feats. Takign the Execution axe as an example. Medium size it's 1d12, large it's 2d6. Being Brutal 2, all 1s and 2s being rerolled, the average damage for the medium execution axe is 8.5, where as the average for the large is 10 (with 2 dice being rolled you can only roll between 6-12 as opposed to 3-12). So that's basically an extra 1.5 per W. 1[W] = +1.5. 2[W] = +3, etc. That's pretty strong for a racial feat. So I doubt that would happen. Well, that and Mike Mearls' statement taken into account.
#22 anubis_reynard Dec 21, 2008 14:49:34	The other alternative, is to give them a racial weapon training feat, for ALL the "big" superior weapons- Basically any superior melee weapon with a +2 proficency. And it adds +2 damage, just like the others. So, Warax, Mordencrad, Executioner's ax... all for 1 feat, with +2 damage.