Rogue/Avenger Character - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Rogue/Avenger Character

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragon9
Mar 28, 2009 15:06:27 Here's the character as she stands at 1st level.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Rose, level 1
Human, Rogue
Rogue Tactics: Artful Dodger
Background: Luskan

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 18, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 14.

Starting Ability Scores
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 14.

AC: 16 Fort: 11 Reflex: 17 Will: 13
HP: 23 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 5

TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate, Stealth, Thievery, Bluff, Perception, Acrobatics, Streetwise.

FEATS
1: Backstabber
1: Action Surge

POWERS
1, At-Will: Sly Flourish
1, At-Will: Piercing Strike
1, At-Will: Disheartening Strike
1, Encounter: Positioning Strike
1, Daily: Blinding Barrage

ITEMS
Leather Armor, Dagger (5), Adventurer's Kit, Holy Symbol
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======

I am thinking along two lines with her. 1) Paragon Multiclass as an Avenger, or 2) take the Zealous Assassin PP.

Now, before I go on, let me say this: I know she is not that optimized, but I know she is not ineffective. The multiclass with Avenger fits her better than what i could hope for in my widest dreams for her character concept (a rogue who hears a calling from her god to be his/her "left hand" and do their dirty work to defeat the enemies of the church that its conventional forces are too goody-goody to do).

So basically what I am looking for is some other viewpoints to maybe get a fix on some other angles I hadn't looked at.

While I understand many consider Paragon Multiclassing to be hopelessly unoptimized, I am considering it for one (possible) reason: the possibility that Divine Power will have a paragon multiclass feat that would give her a full blown Oath of Enmity rather than the 1/encounter until the end of your turn version in the class specific one. The prospect of being able to roll two dice per attack on an enemy with Sneak Attack is very, veeeery tempting.

Of course if the paragon multiclass feats don't include that, then it may very well be a moot point. A feat allowing the ability to use channel divinity could be nice too to be able to pick up the divine feat depending on her god.

For the daily power swap feat I like the Temple powers. Temple of Shadow, level 9 daily, is extremely tempting (creates a zone of shadow around the target that you can roll stealth in to get sneak attacks).

I haven't gone through all the powers yet, but if anyoen else has suggestions I'd like to hear them.
#2
boolean
Mar 29, 2009 22:34:04
While I understand many consider Paragon Multiclassing to be hopelessly unoptimized, I am considering it for one (possible) reason: the possibility that Divine Power will have a paragon multiclass feat that would give her a full blown Oath of Enmity rather than the 1/encounter until the end of your turn version in the class specific one. The prospect of being able to roll two dice per attack on an enemy with Sneak Attack is very, veeeery tempting.

Of course if the paragon multiclass feats don't include that, then it may very well be a moot point. A feat allowing the ability to use channel divinity could be nice too to be able to pick up the divine feat depending on her god.

It probably won't happen. Look at Martial Power; there isn't a Ranger or Rogue PMC feat that gives you HQ or SA all encounter, either.
#3
Dragon9
Mar 30, 2009 7:43:42 Probably not, so I'm taking a wait and see. If not, Zealous Assassin fits her very well thematically.
#4
mwao_dup
Mar 30, 2009 20:57:20
While I understand many consider Paragon Multiclassing to be hopelessly unoptimized, I am considering it for one (possible) reason: the possibility that Divine Power will have a paragon multiclass feat that would give her a full blown Oath of Enmity rather than the 1/encounter until the end of your turn version in the class specific one. The prospect of being able to roll two dice per attack on an enemy with Sneak Attack is very, veeeery tempting.

I think that seems extremely unlikely. I don't think what you're proposing is going to work out so well because your Fort/AC/hp are low for a Rogue while your benefits from your class feature(Artful Dodger) are being dumped in favor of Wisdom. And on top of that, you're giving up your paragon path for an Avenger at-will and some Avenger powers - even if they gave you the x2 swings the whole day long, I don't think it comes out being that great.

Just to ask the obvious question...

Why not start out with Avenger and PMC into Rogue? You could do Ruthless Ruffian, use a mace, and do Disheartening Strike. It isn't a great choice for a Rogue, because then to-hit drops so much. But for an Avenger? 1[w]+Dex+Str is pretty good. You're penalizing them at a -2 to hit.

All in all, it seems like it should work out pretty well and it matches up to your character concept, just in reverse.
#5
Dragon9
Mar 31, 2009 7:43:20 That is a good question MwaO. The answer is: Because in actuality it doesn't fit the character concept with the way Multiclassing works in 4e.

I guess a bit of backstory for her is in order: She came from a family who was dedicated to a particular God (in this case Amaunator). Everyone entered the "family business," her brother, sisters, everyone. So they're all Clerics, etc. Growing up she was having none of it. So she essentially "grew up on the streets." (hence the rogue class) It wasn't until much, much later that she was contacted by Amaunator, through visions and eventually, accordign to her, she was approached directly by an aspect of him and told that he wanted her to be his left hand, to go out and purge the enemies of his church. How do you say no to a God? She got her faith. (and the Avenger MC)

Also, she uses daggers (original 3e character was a Fighter/Rogue/Favored Soul/Master Thrower). So taking Rogue 1st gives the extra boost to dagger use. (she just hit 2nd level, took Weapon Mastery and has a +10 to hit with her daggers)

And I wouldn't call it a dump. +2 to Artful Dodger bonuses as opposed to +3. But then again, as I said, i knew from the start she wasn't going to be what many would be considered optimized. I originally had her planned to go into Paladin (just class specific MC feat) since that's all we had in the PHB1. Then PHB2 came out and I redid her (I hadn't played until very recently) because the Avenger fits her soooo nicely.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragon9 Mar 28, 2009 15:06:27	Here's the character as she stands at 1st level. ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== Rose, level 1 Human, Rogue Rogue Tactics: Artful Dodger Background: Luskan FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 10, Con 11, Dex 18, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 14. Starting Ability Scores Str 10, Con 11, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 14. AC: 16 Fort: 11 Reflex: 17 Will: 13 HP: 23 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 5 TRAINED SKILLS Intimidate, Stealth, Thievery, Bluff, Perception, Acrobatics, Streetwise. FEATS 1: Backstabber 1: Action Surge POWERS 1, At-Will: Sly Flourish 1, At-Will: Piercing Strike 1, At-Will: Disheartening Strike 1, Encounter: Positioning Strike 1, Daily: Blinding Barrage ITEMS Leather Armor, Dagger (5), Adventurer's Kit, Holy Symbol ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== I am thinking along two lines with her. 1) Paragon Multiclass as an Avenger, or 2) take the Zealous Assassin PP. Now, before I go on, let me say this: I know she is not that optimized, but I know she is not ineffective. The multiclass with Avenger fits her better than what i could hope for in my widest dreams for her character concept (a rogue who hears a calling from her god to be his/her "left hand" and do their dirty work to defeat the enemies of the church that its conventional forces are too goody-goody to do). So basically what I am looking for is some other viewpoints to maybe get a fix on some other angles I hadn't looked at. While I understand many consider Paragon Multiclassing to be hopelessly unoptimized, I am considering it for one (possible) reason: the possibility that Divine Power will have a paragon multiclass feat that would give her a full blown Oath of Enmity rather than the 1/encounter until the end of your turn version in the class specific one. The prospect of being able to roll two dice per attack on an enemy with Sneak Attack is very, veeeery tempting. Of course if the paragon multiclass feats don't include that, then it may very well be a moot point. A feat allowing the ability to use channel divinity could be nice too to be able to pick up the divine feat depending on her god. For the daily power swap feat I like the Temple powers. Temple of Shadow, level 9 daily, is extremely tempting (creates a zone of shadow around the target that you can roll stealth in to get sneak attacks). I haven't gone through all the powers yet, but if anyoen else has suggestions I'd like to hear them.
#2 boolean Mar 29, 2009 22:34:04	While I understand many consider Paragon Multiclassing to be hopelessly unoptimized, I am considering it for one (possible) reason: the possibility that Divine Power will have a paragon multiclass feat that would give her a full blown Oath of Enmity rather than the 1/encounter until the end of your turn version in the class specific one. The prospect of being able to roll two dice per attack on an enemy with Sneak Attack is very, veeeery tempting. Of course if the paragon multiclass feats don't include that, then it may very well be a moot point. A feat allowing the ability to use channel divinity could be nice too to be able to pick up the divine feat depending on her god. It probably won't happen. Look at Martial Power; there isn't a Ranger or Rogue PMC feat that gives you HQ or SA all encounter, either.
#3 Dragon9 Mar 30, 2009 7:43:42	Probably not, so I'm taking a wait and see. If not, Zealous Assassin fits her very well thematically.
#4 mwao_dup Mar 30, 2009 20:57:20	While I understand many consider Paragon Multiclassing to be hopelessly unoptimized, I am considering it for one (possible) reason: the possibility that Divine Power will have a paragon multiclass feat that would give her a full blown Oath of Enmity rather than the 1/encounter until the end of your turn version in the class specific one. The prospect of being able to roll two dice per attack on an enemy with Sneak Attack is very, veeeery tempting. I think that seems extremely unlikely. I don't think what you're proposing is going to work out so well because your Fort/AC/hp are low for a Rogue while your benefits from your class feature(Artful Dodger) are being dumped in favor of Wisdom. And on top of that, you're giving up your paragon path for an Avenger at-will and some Avenger powers - even if they gave you the x2 swings the whole day long, I don't think it comes out being that great. Just to ask the obvious question... Why not start out with Avenger and PMC into Rogue? You could do Ruthless Ruffian, use a mace, and do Disheartening Strike. It isn't a great choice for a Rogue, because then to-hit drops so much. But for an Avenger? 1[w]+Dex+Str is pretty good. You're penalizing them at a -2 to hit. All in all, it seems like it should work out pretty well and it matches up to your character concept, just in reverse.
#5 Dragon9 Mar 31, 2009 7:43:20	That is a good question MwaO. The answer is: Because in actuality it doesn't fit the character concept with the way Multiclassing works in 4e. I guess a bit of backstory for her is in order: She came from a family who was dedicated to a particular God (in this case Amaunator). Everyone entered the "family business," her brother, sisters, everyone. So they're all Clerics, etc. Growing up she was having none of it. So she essentially "grew up on the streets." (hence the rogue class) It wasn't until much, much later that she was contacted by Amaunator, through visions and eventually, accordign to her, she was approached directly by an aspect of him and told that he wanted her to be his left hand, to go out and purge the enemies of his church. How do you say no to a God? She got her faith. (and the Avenger MC) Also, she uses daggers (original 3e character was a Fighter/Rogue/Favored Soul/Master Thrower). So taking Rogue 1st gives the extra boost to dagger use. (she just hit 2nd level, took Weapon Mastery and has a +10 to hit with her daggers) And I wouldn't call it a dump. +2 to Artful Dodger bonuses as opposed to +3. But then again, as I said, i knew from the start she wasn't going to be what many would be considered optimized. I originally had her planned to go into Paladin (just class specific MC feat) since that's all we had in the PHB1. Then PHB2 came out and I redid her (I hadn't played until very recently) because the Avenger fits her soooo nicely.