Is this item not a "must-have" for all LFR Wizards?
When you get to that point when it's time to blow those dailies... what is it worth to be able to change your daily spell... especially if you picked the wrong one?
For all those who think the Wizard is rubbish... this item just made them 100% better in LFR!
Not bad if you really wish to be versatile and like to have proper monster knowledge checks, worth considering as long as you have not another item that has a better daily, but I think it is not as ultra useful as you seem to make it.
Swapping a daily is daily power... so you can (a) use it only once*, and (b) it eats up another daily item power.
Not bad if you really wish to be versatile and like to have proper monster knowledge checks, worth considering as long as you have not another item that has a better daily, but I think it is not as ultra useful as you seem to make it.
*or twice if you have an Artificer...
It's very useful at low-level, when you only have one daily, but a choice of 2-3.
Later on it might not be as useful... but still... once per day you can swap one of your daily powers for another you know. Which is great if you have the Expanded Spellbook feat.
I know of a few modules where our Wizard wished they could have done that... not very useful for reruns I would imagine (when you can meta-game your daily)... unless DME changes some of the keywords or resistances. ;)
So it's not as useful unless you keep upgrading the item. Also, I'm assuming that you still have to abide by the preparation rules when power-swapping, so you can't swap a level 2 utilty for a level 1 daily attack, nor could you swap a level 5 daily for a second instance of a level 1 daily (to have 2 flaming spheres prepared.)
Having a look at the Mnemonic Staff [Adventurer's Vault]... for 520gp at level 2... it allows you to swap out one of your daily powers for another (of the same level or lower) as a minor action... it's also a +X staff implement...
Is this item not a "must-have" for all LFR Wizards?
Yes, but for different reasons.
This allows you to swap a Utility power for a Daily. I use it to swap Expeditious Retreat (Utility Daily 2) for a Sleep Spell (Attack Daily 1).
Here's the wording on the staff:
[INDENT]"Power (Daily): Minor Action. Swap a power you’ve
prepared for another power in your spellbook of equal or
lower level. Each power must also be of equal or lower
level than the level of the staff."
[/INDENT]
And here are the spells in your spellbook, from PHB:
[INDENT]"Daily and Utility Spells: Your spellbook also
holds your daily and utility spells. You begin knowing
two daily spells, one of which you can use on any given
day. Each time you gain a level that lets you select a
daily spell or a utility spell, choose two different daily
spells or utility spells of that level to add to your book.
After an extended rest, you can prepare a number of
daily and utility spells according to what you can cast
per day for your level. You can’t prepare the same spell
twice."
[/INDENT]
Yes, but for different reasons.
This allows you to swap a Utility power for a Daily. I use it to swap Expeditious Retreat (Utility Daily 2) for a Sleep Spell (Attack Daily 1).
Here's the wording on the staff:
[INDENT]"Power (Daily): Minor Action. Swap a power you’ve
prepared for another power in your spellbook of equal or
lower level. Each power must also be of equal or lower
level than the level of the staff."
[/INDENT]
And here are the spells in your spellbook, from PHB:
[INDENT]"Daily and Utility Spells: Your spellbook also
holds your daily and utility spells. You begin knowing
two daily spells, one of which you can use on any given
day. Each time you gain a level that lets you select a
daily spell or a utility spell, choose two different daily
spells or utility spells of that level to add to your book.
After an extended rest, you can prepare a number of
daily and utility spells according to what you can cast
per day for your level. You can’t prepare the same spell
twice."
[/INDENT]
Careful. That is a gray area interpretation. I can see plenty of DMs who would claim that it has to stay the same type of power. And, before you say that RAW is clear and they would have to agree, if they don't agree, the DM is always right (even when he is wrong).
-SYB
Careful. That is a gray area interpretation. I can see plenty of DMs who would claim that it has to stay the same type of power. And, before you say that RAW is clear and they would have to agree, if they don't agree, the DM is always right (even when he is wrong).
The great thing about this is that it's not gray, and there's no interpretation.
Of course, I agree with you that the judge is allowed to do whatever they want, including adding new text to rules.
When an ability creates an exception to one part of a general rule, the other parts of that rule still apply.
The staff allows you to swap out a spell you have prepared, but it does not say it allows you to break the rules of the number and type of spells you are allowed to prepare.
When an ability creates an exception to one part of a general rule, the other parts of that rule still apply.
I'm trying to follow what you're saying, but all specific rules by definition break a number of unspecified general rules. The ability description of Mnemonic Staff states exactly what it does. Therefore in this case it breaks two general rules. That's hardly new for magic items.
If you were to require all specific rules to state something to the effect of "This specific rule trumps the general rule of blah blah", then the PHB would read like a legal contract and would be largely incomprehensible to us mere mortals.
I don't know a DM alive who would allow that at their table, but RAW seem to make it legal. Sometimes, RAW have no choice but to take a bow to RAI.
-SYB
Looks liek they'll need to add an update to this one too.
EDIT: as a side note, i still don't see it as a must have anymore than I thought VA was a must have. It's nice, but I have gotten way too much use out of Shield to give it up. I plan on trying to keep hold of shield for as long as possible on my wizard. Maybe at a higher level it woudl be more useful.
Only Daily Attack Powers are "Daily Powers". Utility Powers are not "Daily Powers", even if their frequency is "daily".
Out of interest, have you got a rules source that backs that up?
I don't see why a power being 'utility' rather than 'attack' precludes it from the category of 'Daily power'.
Only Daily Attack Powers are "Daily Powers". Utility Powers are not "Daily Powers", even if their frequency is "daily".
What does this have to do with anything? Reread the item's power. It doesn't specify Daily or not. It only says you have to swap a prepared spell for another from your spellbook. As PGC pointed out (or was it Corwynn?) both Dailies and utilities are spellbook powers.
What does this have to do with anything? Reread the item's power. It doesn't specify Daily or not. It only says you have to swap a prepared spell for another from your spellbook. As PGC pointed out (or was it Corwynn?) both Dailies and utilities are spellbook powers.
After an extended rest, you can prepare a number of daily and utility spells according to what you can cast per day for your level. You can’t prepare the same spell twice.
A 6th level Wizard is allowed to cast two daily attack spells per day, one of up to 5th level, one of up to 1st level(as an example). Mnemonic Staff doesn't change that. Nor does Mnemonic Staff give you the ability to prepare the same spell twice. All it does is give you the option of preparing a new spell - if that new spell is legal to cast, you can then cast it.
i.e. while it might seem that a 2nd level Wizard could be able to swap Expeditious Retreat for Sleep, that doesn't give that 2nd level Wizard either of the following:
The ability to cast Sleep twice - you can't prepare the same spell twice.
The ability to cast Sleep and Flaming Sphere - a 2nd level Wizard is only allowed to cast a number of daily attack spells per day = 1.
All that blowing the Expeditious Retreat for Sleep actually does is prevent the Wizard from using their 2nd level utility power. And I don't even think they can, because you can't prepare what you can't cast.
I'm not sure what good a swordmage wielding a staff is though.
Who says anything about wielding the staff?
With a sword in one hand you can...
- Minor action - draw the staff
- Minor action - change daily power for one in the book
- Standard action - cast the new spell
- Free action - drop the staff
Job done!
Incidentally I don't subscribe to this idea that you can swap Utility powers for Daily attack powers...
I just think that up until level 5 (when you need to upgrade the staff), the Mnemonic Staff gives loads more versatility to the LFR Wizard.
Most LFR modules do not provide for an extended rest... the Mnemonic Staff lets you swap out your daily nuke for a more appropriate spell should you come up against something unexpected.
having seen an number of Wizard characters being severly limited by a poor choice of daily spell (typically by encountering resistant creatures), it seems like a minor GP outlay for an extremely usefull item.
A 6th level Wizard is allowed to cast two daily attack spells per day, one of up to 5th level, one of up to 1st level(as an example).
You guys are grasping at straws now. There are lots of ways of being able to cast more than your allotted amount of Daily Attack powers. Archmage, Salve of Power, Veteran's armor (before nerf), etc...
None of these need to mention which general rules this specific ruling over-rules. That's because WotC *never* specifies which general rules are getting over-ruled.
Just follow the text in the specific ruling.
You guys are grasping at straws now. There are lots of ways of being able to cast more than your allotted amount of Daily Attack powers. Archmage, Salve of Power, Veteran's armor (before nerf), etc...
Yes, and those methods specifically state that you can use a power more than once in a day. Mnemonic Staff does not.
Salve of Power: "regain the use of one daily power" - i.e. you can use it twice.
Archmage: "You can use that spell two times that day, rather than only once."
Vet's Armor: "Instead, you regain the use of one expended daily power."
The only thing it says is you lose a prepped spell for one in your spellbook. So if you cast Sleep, you can then lose your level 2 utility power to cast another sleep (it's in your spellbook). Just because you already prepped and used Sleep doesn't mean it isn't in your spellbook.
It needs errata. As it is currently written, there's nothing stopping it.
It'd be okay for my Wizard who is level 8, however once I level up to level 9, I can't use it for my level 9 spell.
I think a Defensive Staff and Staff of Expansion are more useful though.
Incidentally I don't subscribe to this idea that you can swap Utility powers for Daily attack powers...
It seems non-abusive to swap daily spells for utility spells though. But I can't see the staff allowing one, but forbidding the other unfortunately.
Mage's Weapon allows you to expend any arcane encounter power (like a Utility encounter power) to regain the use of a martial encounter power (like an Encounter Attack power) you know of up to the same level.
This is yet another example of a specific ruling that over-rides the general ruling of how many powers you can cast of each type.
Wait... what did I say? A specific ruling over-ruling a general ruling... oh noes!
There's encounter the frequency, then there's encounter the power type. However, powers are never called out by their frequency (which is where the confusion can stem from since Encounter refers to both frequency and type).
Mage's Weapon allows you to expend any arcane encounter power (like a Utility encounter power) to regain the use of a martial encounter power (like an Encounter Attack power) you know of up to the same level.
This is yet another example of a specific ruling that over-rides the general ruling of how many powers you can cast of each type.
And again, Mage's Weapon specifically states that you can regain a power. Mnemonic Staff does not.
Funny how they seem to like using the word 'regain' when they actually mean for you to be able to override the rules on using powers more than once...
(edit: not to mention what Dragon9 said - it is encounter power only, which is a type of power)
The only thing it says is you lose a prepped spell for one in your spellbook. So if you cast Sleep, you can then lose your level 2 utility power to cast another sleep (it's in your spellbook). Just because you already prepped and used Sleep doesn't mean it isn't in your spellbook.
It is in your spellbook.
But that's irrelevant because Mnemonic Staff does not state you get to ignore the rules about prepping spells except in that you get to swap out a spell in the way listed.
So you still need to follow the rules on prepping. Which means you still have a limited number of daily attack spells per day and you can't prep the same spell twice.
Items which allow you to ignore those rules specifically tell you that you can ignore them - as per the list helpfully compiled by Corwynn shows.
Relying on a gray area ruling is always a bad idea. Assume the worst possible ruling will be made at any table and make decisions based on that.
-SYB
I would say... remember the lesson of the Veterans Armour... have your day in the sun while you can... I'm sure an errata looms.
If you're using a Mnemonic Staff in order to swap Utility Powers for Daily Attack Powers... and your DM is allowing you to do it...
I would say... remember the lesson of the Veterans Armour... have your day in the sun while you can... I'm sure an errata looms.
Fair enough.
It's interesting though. I actually used this in my last LFR game, and the other 6 people thought it was good, but not broken by any means. Since you have to give up something substantial *and* the level of the staff needs to be high, a couple of them thought it was just fair.
And the intent is also absolutely clear that you cannot swap out a used power.
I believe that anyone who buys this should do so expecting errata.
Carl
And the intent is also absolutely clear that you cannot swap out a used power.
No one has suggested you could do that. I believe by that you mean You cast sleep, then swap it out for something else? The only thing that was suggested was casting sleep, then swapping a Utility power to cast sleep again from your spellbook.
Relying on a gray area ruling is always a bad idea. Assume the worst possible ruling will be made at any table and make decisions based on that.
Aye. It is fine if people think their interpretation is most likely correct, but some go out to say that others cannot possibly be right, and that really strikes me as folly.
If mnemonic staff isn't getting an errata, it needs clarification.
Gomez
http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=938
I've been told the Rules Update team checks those forums.
Another interesting point was that R&D mentioned some abilities they tried to be too specific, getting people to wander what the exception was even if there was none. Their example was a two weapon attack power that mentioned the PCs could target one or two targets, which is rather redundant. Mentioning the of equal or lower level is redundant as well if you follow the standard preperation rules. If it had not been mentioned, would people still think you could switch out Utilities for dailies?
But that's irrelevant because Mnemonic Staff does not state you get to ignore the rules about prepping spells except in that you get to swap out a spell in the way listed.
Correct. Mnemonic Staff has nothing to do with actual preparing spells, just swapping out an already prepared spell. All you can do is swap for an equal or lower level spell from your spellbook.
"Power (Daily): Minor Action. Swap a power you’ve
prepared for another power in your spellbook of equal or
lower level. Each power must also be of equal or lower
level than the level of the staff."
So you still need to follow the rules on prepping.
Correct. You need to follow all of the rules for preparing. When you prepare and choose spells from your spellbook, after an extended rest, you cannot prepare the same spell twice.
For example, if your spellbook has Sleep, Flaming Sphere, Expeditious Retreat, Shield, Fireball and Web, then when you prepare your spells you can prepare Sleep, Shield, and Fireball but *not* Fireball and two Sleep spells.
Some time later in the day, you can then use the power of the staff. You can swap one of your prepared spells for a spell in your spellbook of equal or lower level.
If the staff is level 2, then you can swap Sleep or Shield but not Fireball (too high level). You must swap it for a power from your spellbook of equal or lower level.
So, you can swap Sleep for Flaming Sphere, Shield for Expeditious Retreat, or Shield for Sleep (or Flaming Sphere) but *not* Sleep for Shield.
The next time you prepare spells, after your next extended rest, you must follow all the rules for preparing spells.
The Mnemonic Staff does not change any of the rules for spell preparation, and has no effect on them (although it does depend on you having prepared first).
I have yet to see any item that is a must have.
I guess it's all relative to the user, but to me a Floating Shield is a must have for the heavily armored tanks. My plate armored Cleric would be dead 3 maybe 4 times over without his Floating heavy shield.
You're right, it is all relative. I remember several people tellign me I needed to get Veteran's Armor for my characters. Even before it got nerfed I didn't think it was all that.
I kind of expected the verterans to get nerfed, it just seemed like buying a couple sets was going to be overly abused, but then even if it didn't I would not have taken it.
I also have had tons of people tell me the exhalted armor is a must for clerics. Both of mine use BlackIron Plate because they are built for wading into the center of combat and staying there. High AC, high defences, and all the resistances I can get are more important to me than that bump to my healing from the exhalted armor.