What rituals do you think wizards should take at 1st, 6th, etc, level?
(1) Tenser's Floating Disk and Make Whole are pretty much the only ones that you can expect to see some use. As a third one, you could consider Animal Messenger or Comprehend Languages, but neither is likely to happen.
(6) Hand of Fate may actually be useful on occasion, and Transfer Enchantment may save you some money. That's pretty much it.
Overall, it doesn't matter one bit. As written, rituals suck big time to begin with. Furthermore, an LFR writer cannot assume that any individual group contains a ritual caster. That means that for any obstacle that might be overcome with a ritual (which is rare enough to begin with), the writer must either provide a scroll, or have an alternative way of dealing with it. Because of the way rituals are written, the alternative will always be much cheaper and faster than using the ritual.
It's a money sink; you should invest in low-level multi-use items instead.
* Dark Light
* Knock
* Cure Disease
* Deathly Shroud
If you or you're DM has trouble thinking outside of the box, then rituals are useless. But as long as you have a good imagination and a flexible DM, you're fine.
Endure Elements is an excellent choice to spend gold on once you are level 2.
Enchant and Disenchant Magic Item (especially the later) are solid choices.
Speak with Dead, and Raise Dead is good.
I haven't looked much past that, but several of the movement rituals seem like a good bet at various times as well.
Incidently I rate Explorer's Fire above Dark Light, and I'm quite surprised its not used very often Buy a lantern and some oil and use Explorer's Fire - you can the sneak up on the monsters with 5 squares of bright illumination.
Explorer's Fire,
Doesn't do anything (since it works on campfires, not on lanterns), and neither does Endure Elements. But if you want to spend several hundred gold pieces per session on fluff, be my guest.
Enchant and Disenchant Magic Item (especially the later) are solid choices.
No they aren't, both cost exactly as much to cast as it would cost to buy the item in the first place. This is LFR we're talking about, so yes, you can buy anything you want, whenever you want it.
Speak with Dead, and Raise Dead is good.
Speak with Dead is worthless; you'll get a scroll in the few adventures that allow speaking with dead people. Raise Dead will save you a bit on gold, though.
several of the movement rituals seem like a good bet at various times as well.
Nope. If an adventure requires that you go somewhere, it'll provide the means; if an adventure does not, you can't get there via ritual either.
Of course, if you can convince the DM to houserule rituals, then they can be useful; the problem is that in LFR, people aren't supposed to use houserules.
Of course, if you can convince the DM to houserule rituals, then they can be useful; the problem is that in LFR, people aren't supposed to use houserules.
They can be useful without house rules. Your dislike for rituals is based on your experience, which isn't indicative of how everyone will use or allow rituals to be used.
They can be useful without house rules. Your dislike for rituals is based on your experience, which isn't indicative of how everyone will use or allow rituals to be used.
My 8th level swordmage currently knows 30 rituals and bought the majority of them (and the found ones are bought by not selecting the extra gold which often comes down the same cost anyway). I have spend more than 50% of all the gp I have ever earned on rituals and will continue to do so because it's the goal of my character to master as many arcane secrets as possible.
Yet I have to completly agree with Kurald_Galain. In LFR casting a ritual is a waste of gold. Even in the rare moments when a ritual will get you somewhere there's always will be annother way to get the same results that does not involve paying the ritual costs. By using the ritual I deliberately chose to reduce my gold reward to go a more styling route.
During all my 19 adventures I have cast only 4 out of my 30 rituals (of course I didn't have all of them during all adventures as they were of course aquired a few rituals at a time) and only 1 time it was to get the adventures forward while the other 3 times were just wasting a few gp for pure fluff reason (e.g. casting fastidiouness before entering the sewers to stay clean while walking through the city's s##t). And even during the one time it was to bring the adventure forward I knew full well that there was the non-ritual option which would have gotten the same result without costing 140 gold and thus effectively reducing the found treasure of every player by 23 gp.
No they aren't, both cost exactly as much to cast as it would cost to buy the item in the first place. This is LFR we're talking about, so yes, you can buy anything you want, whenever you want it.
Can save you a bit of money, actually, if you use Enchant Magic Item to 'upgrade' a vanilla item to one with a useful property.
Doesn't do anything (since it works on campfires, not on lanterns), and neither does Endure Elements. But if you want to spend several hundred gold pieces per session on fluff, be my guest.
"You alter one fire of bonfire size or smaller within 5 squares of you" Explorer's Fire.
A lantern contains a firesmaller than bonfire size last I checked. They might have changed recently, I mean I haven't personally used one for 20 years or so, but I doubt it.
Endure Elements has admitedly been less useful since the change, but it can be a nice RP touch for at least one module, and I there is a module its use should make a difference for (though I haven't checked nor played said module). It also could be useful in later modules where weather extremes are more likely to matter. Wait for the Anuaroch modules, or the Calimsham ones involving the desert, or heck adventures in the North in Winter, all of these provide opportunities to use the ritual if the authors and DMs realise it.
No they aren't, both cost exactly as much to cast as it would cost to buy the item in the first place. This is LFR we're talking about, so yes, you can buy anything you want, whenever you want it.
It costs 25gp to cast Disenchant Magic Item.
You recover 1/5 of the items value.
You find a magic item no one wants, you disenchant it and have Residium to use on all other rituals for the module.
Including a temporary "I need this item" use of Enchant Magic Item if you want. (Especially handy for 1 use items as well - which reminds me Brew Potion is good once you are fifth level and can brew basic healing potions.)
Speak with Dead is worthless; you'll get a scroll in the few adventures that allow speaking with dead people. Raise Dead will save you a bit on gold, though.
Using the scroll uses the same amount of Residium etc as having the ritual in your book, and once learnt the Ritual is there whenever you need it and cannot be used up.
Raise Dead also means that you have you full party for the entire adventure.
Nope. If an adventure requires that you go somewhere, it'll provide the means; if an adventure does not, you can't get there via ritual either.
You are making a lot of assumptions about Paragon tier adventures and what they will contain. Which is when travel Rituals will come into play.
I doubt there will be 0 opportunity to take advantage of travel rituals through the course of Paragon and Epic tiers.
Of course, if you can convince the DM to houserule rituals, then they can be useful; the problem is that in LFR, people aren't supposed to use houserules.
Houserules are not needed.
Actually careing about what your character is motivated to do via role play matters, along with taking the time to read the rules and understand how things can be used and how they might impact on the game.
Its not always about having the biggest sword, or most powerful spell.
Can save you a bit of money, actually, if you use Enchant Magic Item to 'upgrade' a vanilla item to one with a useful property.
Actually Transfer Enchantment (which is another potentially useful ritual) is the one to use to do that.
I saw Endure Elements being used in some skill challenges that involved wilderness survival (most notably ADAP1-5) where the ritual probably saved a couple of healing surges which on hindsight might have prevented a TPK from happening. Of course, whether or not that is true is a bit difficult to say, because I am sure the PCs would have behaved differently had they had less healing surges.
Make Whole has generated a couple of auto-successes as well.
The real problem is that the DCs of skill challenges tend to be easy enough that using rituals to generate auto-successes might not be worth it for the players who like their gold. The few times people do use them though, the players really seem to like it. I suspect that once we hit paragon levels we are going to see more use for low-level rituals. After all, when you earn 500 gp per adventure, you are not going to care that much about those 10 gp (assuming 6 PCs) spend to cast Silence on two rooms ;)
Even in the rare moments when a ritual will get you somewhere there's always will be annother way to get the same results that does not involve paying the ritual costs.
That's like saying don't bother with face skills or thievery because you can always do what you want another way (i.e. smash things and people).
I also had an instance where my players could have saved themselves a lot of trouble had the ritual caster had ANY rituals. Could they do it another way? Sure, and they did. But it was harder.
While it won't give you extra gold, extra XP or do extra damage to monsters, I do think rituals are useful. If you're mainly interested in things that make your character better in combat, you won't like rituals.
But I agree that DMs (and mod authors) need to take into account in some manner the use of ritual caster during a game, allowing auto success in some skill challenges, or offering alternate encounters, etc.
Doesn't do anything (since it works on campfires, not on lanterns), and neither does Endure Elements.
I have used Endure Elements to some good effect, so you are proven wrong there.
Speak with Dead: there are various adventures where Speak with Dead helps to gain information, even though no scroll is given. You may get clues in other ways, but Speak with Dead may give more detailed or accurate info.
This is one ritual I do take into account when editing.
But I once write a LG advenure where the entire goal was to cast Speak With Dead, so...
Oh, and Linked Portal. You may want that one.
(I admit though that I stopped the standard casting of Explorer's Fire every adventure as it wa abit costly - I probably will consider whether there is any chance of fires to be found first...)
Phantom Steed was one of the rituals in the wizard's spellbook and only one team used it to essentially bypass one thug encounter. They went on to the finals I think.
So yeah, Phantom Steed. Nothing like flying horses to totally change the dynamics of a story (fighting the giants was not their goal, they were just an obstacle along the way).
Unfortunately as both the rules and LFR writing stand, aside from Bardic rituals you really have to look for excuses to cast rituals. I thought Comprehend Languages would be a great one for such a wide and varied landscape, but for some reason everyone just ends up speaking Common to you.
These aren't really Wizard rituals, but my Bard usually ends up casting at least one ritual every adventure. Granted most of these are Bardic rituals and once per day are free for me to cast, but aside from Lullaby they're ridiculously useful.
OMG I just realized my bard never has to eat. Like, ever. If he doesn't want to.
...
Dammit, he likes to eat.
-karma
But I once write a LG advenure where the entire goal was to cast Speak With Dead, so...
I think I played that one. But it does give you a scroll, doesn't it?
Oh, and Linked Portal. You may want that one.
Linked Portal is good, no argument there. So is the magister/imprisonment combo, but considering LFR is still in heroic tier we won't be seeing that for awhile.
Unfortunately as both the rules and LFR writing stand, aside from Bardic rituals you really have to look for excuses to cast rituals.
This is really the point: the LFR writers must (and do) ensure that the adventure is playable without using rituals (or to give out scrolls at the beginning), because any given party can't be guaranteed to have a ritual caster with the right ritual. So everything that can be done with a ritual can also be done without it. And given the way the rules work, the latter way will be cheaper and faster in almost every case.
But as long as you've got enough of a gaming population that feels entitled to a no cost solution provided for them, yeah rituals are going to be seen as an expensive luxury.
I'm really looking forward to being a Magister or whatever it is that can use rituals as standard actions. Imprisonment looks pretty useful...
Linked Portal is good, no argument there. So is the magister/imprisonment combo, but considering LFR is still in heroic tier we won't be seeing that for awhile.
Pepole keep talking about how awesome this combo is. I don't think they've read the Imprisonment ritual correctly, as it requires the target to be either helpless or willing. It's handy, if you've used Sleep or Garotte Grip or something to make them temporarily unconscious and you know they're going to wake up soon, but you still have to get them unconscious. It isn't an automatic win of any kind.
Yeah, I was actually half joking about the imprisonment. Using Rituals as Standard actions would be killer, though.
Take a look at the Magister epic destiny; have to wait until you're 30th level, though.
Take a look at the Magister epic destiny; have to wait until you're 30th level, though.
Yeah. Lots of things get "broken" once PCs reach 30th. Magister is gonna have to wait in line behind the infinite damage combos at 30th though, in terms of brokenness.
The cost to cast it was like 27g per person in a 5 man party, once you start getting into paragon tier that will be beyond chump change. We also used Knock to open a door since I think our best thievery check person would have required a 20 and some assists to open the door. Though as a cleric my arcana wasn't so hot either but arcana +5 bonus helped. I think one of the biggest problems with rituals is the time to cast some of the simplest ones is far far too long. Knock is 10 minutes? So basically I sat outside a door chanting for 10 minutes with 3 allies chanting with me? At least status I cast during breakfast =P
So basically I sat outside a door chanting for 10 minutes with 3 allies chanting with me? At least status I cast during breakfast =P
Which means 100 tries for the person needing the 20 plus some assissts to eventually succeed and do it for free. Just make every assisstant take 10 and wait for the 20 that's bound to happen at least once in 100 rolls.
Which means 100 tries for the person needing the 20 plus some assissts to eventually succeed and do it for free. Just make every assisstant take 10 and wait for the 20 that's bound to happen at least once in 100 rolls.
Well no one had thieves tools, and factor in this line from the PHB regarding thievery..
The DM might decide that some uses of this skill
are so specialized that you are required to be trained
in it to have a chance of succeeding.
After a few failed tries I'd have to rule the task impossible for that person to accomplish, that whatever they were using to pick it damaged the lock and now it's stuck. The door was arcane locked, so a DM would be within their right to say you have to be trained in thievery to attempt to disable it that way in the first place.
The same character also uses Fastidiousness at least once a mod, but that's entirely a role-playing use.
I knew the GM was not fond of metagame constructs like asking if someone is close to bloodied etc.
That's kinda a problem.
One of the assumptions in 4E is that both the PCs and the NPCs are aware of every status effect that happens in the battlefield, whether it be Bloodied, or Poisoned, or whatever. They might not know what caused it, but they'll know when the effect happens and to who.
Heck, some powers and abilities trigger off those effects occurring. If you've got a power that kicks in if your opponent is bloodied, how are you going to know to use it unless the DM tells you?
-karma
Unseen Servant can be a very useful 1st level ritual. I have in the past used it to pick up goblins, lift them to a moderate height, and then drop them. Not every DM is going to let you use it in that fashion, but there are plenty of other great uses.
Yes, given that Unseen Servant has neither the ability to attack nor fly, I think it's fair to say that not every DM is going to let you use it in that fashion.
Yes, given that Unseen Servant has neither the ability to attack nor fly, I think it's fair to say that not every DM is going to let you use it in that fashion.
actually, in the mod in question, there was a cliff and a ramp, didn't actually fly. wasn't really clear about that, my bad. although as a DM, i'd certainly allow a player to move their unseen servant about three dimensionally. otherwise they wouldn't be much good for dusting the chandeliers in those lofty wizard towers...
the ritual allows the servant to lift up to 100 lbs., and the DM let me lift the kobold. wouldn't necessarily have to be an attack, but i'm sure some people will argue. in the end, everyone, including the DM enjoyed it, and all had a good time.
That's kinda a problem.
One of the assumptions in 4E is that both the PCs and the NPCs are aware of every status effect that happens in the battlefield, whether it be Bloodied, or Poisoned, or whatever. They might not know what caused it, but they'll know when the effect happens and to who.
Heck, some powers and abilities trigger off those effects occurring. If you've got a power that kicks in if your opponent is bloodied, how are you going to know to use it unless the DM tells you?
-karma
Oh no he lets us know when they are bloodied, I was saying close to bloodied. Like if a player is 1 hp over bloodied they are close, he doesn't like if they say they are getting close etc. Which is totally within his right and the player should not be sharing that they are 1 over bloodied either.