The Monk is correct. You have to be within 4 levels of the item to use or sell the item. So if it's a level 8 item, you'll have to hold onto it until you are level 4 to be able to sell it.
In that case, I'll just take the 175 gold and wait. That'll give me the +1 Razor Scale I took while first level, 289 GP. I'll just wait to buy a +1 weapon until my next adventure is complete.
There's been at least oen thread where people did some math to show that, in general, blowing found item slots just to turn around and sell the item for gold is not very desireable unless you really want a particular item and the sale of it would put you over the amount needed to buy it.
I'd like to see that math. In general, hoarding slots to sell for items is extremely advantageous. The easy example of this is the guy who finds a 8th level item in a 1-4 mod and then later on finds a 14th level item in a 7-10 mod. Character 1 finds the 1-4 item and has ran out of slots for the 14th level item, so just takes gold. By the time the 7-10 mod comes around, he sells the 8th level item. Character 2 ignores the 8th item, finds the 14th level item, and sells it. All mods are high tier and both characters end up at 10th level when this happens.
Math:
Character 1 gets 100 gold for the 1st mod, 680 for selling the 8th level item, and 700 gold for max gold in the 7-10 mod. Total = 1480 gold.
Character 2 gets 175 gold for the 1st mod, 200 gold for the 2nd mod, and 4200 gold for the 14th level item. Total = 4575 gold.
Having an extra 3000 gold to spend on items is significant, especially due to it being difficult to fill up all the item slots with found items and all the various items that have useful properties.
Having an extra 3000 gold to spend on items is significant, especially due to it being difficult to fill up all the item slots with found items and all the various items that have useful properties.
This strikes me as correct. After the first two levels or so, you are unlikely ever to be short on slots.
This is easy to show: most characters want weapon (or implement), armor, and cloak/amulet of the appropriate plus. This accounts for at most 3 items every 5 levels, probably less than that (because a +2 armor with a good property is better than a +3 armor with a mediocre property, and because the first trio can easily be skipped and/or bought for money). That means you have plenty of slots saved for when a useful boot or belt or helmet comes along, and these can certainly be used on (massive quantities of) gold instead.
Having an extra 3000 gold to spend on items is significant, especially due to it being difficult to fill up all the item slots with found items and all the various items that have useful properties.
This strikes me as correct. After the first two levels or so, you are unlikely ever to be short on slots.
This is easy to show: most characters want weapon (or implement), armor, and cloak/amulet of the appropriate plus. This accounts for at most 3 items every 5 levels, probably less than that (because a +2 armor with a good property is better than a +3 armor with a mediocre property, and because the first trio can easily be skipped and/or bought for money). That means you have plenty of slots saved for when a useful boot or belt or helmet comes along, and these can certainly be used on (massive quantities of) gold instead.
Same. I didn't take an item to sell because i was told that its not as good as getting item. My assassin is still waiting on finding good items, and has bought almost everything he carries now.
Having an extra 3000 gold to spend on items is significant, especially due to it being difficult to fill up all the item slots with found items and all the various items that have useful properties.
The other side of the coin, *ahem*
, is that you will do something with that coin. The 3000 sounds huge when you are in the 7-10 range, but is far less impressive when you are in the 11-14 range, and really not so awesome when you are in the 14-17 range. The big thing is how hard it is to afford an item that is of equal level to what you are currently finding in your current adventures once you get into and beyond paragon. When stuff costs 100k gp, having 3000 back then is pretty low. Even cashing in a current pick is unlikely to do more than help you save up the money you need or to buy a low level item that fits a specialized need.If a elf cleric is in need of magical armor should she buy +1 armor w/ magical prop (like say eladrin armor +1) or wait and hope not to get squashed durring next several adventures waiting for better armor?
Yeah I know eladrin armor teleport property is waisted, but the lack of penalties to skills & movement make all the difference on a constant basis instead once daily powers.
Advice whole heartedly needed. Since tonight she plays again and I either wait or buy armor at beginning of adventure (if available per GM?)
The other side of the coin, *ahem*
Or what you just said is "You should expect a benefit from doing this trick once to last about 7 levels..."
What the 3K really does is allow a character to purchase either that specialized item that fills a slot or actually buy an item of your level without much difficulty(14th level item sold for 9th level gold means a 10th level character can actually afford that 10th level item if they want)
You do this once a tier in paragon/epic, and you'll have a big advantage over anyone not doing this. This is especially true once you start seeing Rings and want to fill up that slot.
I'd also note this in a sense the 'worst case scenario' where you don't find the items you want anyway. My Paladin 10 found a 14th level Weapon. It wasn't the one I wanted, but I took it anyway simply because it was +3 and it would be easy to use throughout Paragon(as your Bard appreciated just this past week...)
There shouldn't be (many) level 14 items in level 7 to 10 mods and since the price of items rises exponentional it really is a big difference whether that is a level 14 or a level 11 or 12. Furthermore, just looking at three adventures, one of which is an extreme example, is not that good when it comes to treasure division. The advantage one might get at selling that item at level 10 (remember: only selling items at level +4) compared to the person taking the slot is quickly become insignificant. To do a mathematical analyses you should examine it from level 1 to 30, which to be honest, is a bit too much work for me, especially since there are downsides to leaving bundles open besides cold hard cash.
You need about 10-12 mods to burn through tiers 7-10. You find one non-essential 14th level magic item once in those 10-12 mods, you just made hoarding work for the entire tier. My Bard 11, who found 3 items from levels 1-10, has 2 14th level items. My Paladin 11, who found 5 items from levels 1-10, has found a 14th level item. Quite honestly, none of the 14th level items I found I'd consider essential and I could sell them at the drop of a hat(and expect to likely do this in low paragon tier).
Maybe I got lucky in terms of mods played, but...remember, it is easy for a player to replay a mod to simply get another character access to that 14th level item. So the only players not getting to do this if there are mods with 14th level items are people who refuse to replay mods for that purpose or people who simply get unlucky.
No one I've met considers my Paladin or Bard weak.
The 3000 sounds huge when you are in the 7-10 range, but is far less impressive when you are in the 11-14 range, and really not so awesome when you are in the 14-17 range.
I think Paragon level gold should be rated in terms of the amount of Salves of Power you can buy with it. So 3k gold is 60% of a power salve. Paragon 1 more gold should just be called "Salve of Power."
I am only 13 and already have too many too wear all at once =P I need that stinking wonderous item that lets me use a third... so for now it's war ring and chameleon ring till milestone then war ring and ring of dragonborn emperor till I use one of their powers, then replace the used one with chameleon and hope to use it's power too =P
Even though my character(s) have plenty* of gold, and some spare items of my level+4 that I could sell for more gold, I never buy any magic items because I'm constantly worried that I will have wasted my money when I gain access to a better item I could buy next level, or the level after that, or...
I need help.
* plenty being a relative term, but you get the idea
Even though my character(s) have plenty* of gold, and some spare items of my level+4 that I could sell for more gold, I never buy any magic items because I'm constantly worried that I will have wasted my money when I gain access to a better item I could buy next level, or the level after that, or...
Ironically, buying magic items is what gets you out of that trap - when you already have a pretty good belt, that found belt isn't as attractive. Which then gives you a found slot to sell for gold to buy pretty good boots.
The 3000 sounds huge when you are in the 7-10 range, but is far less impressive when you are in the 11-14 range, and really not so awesome when you are in the 14-17 range.
I think Paragon level gold should be rated in terms of the amount of Salves of Power you can buy with it. So 3k gold is 60% of a power salve. Paragon 1 more gold should just be called "Salve of Power."
It'd be funny if it wasn't so true. The first time we played a paragon mod and were told the gold & more gold total, half the table immediately pointed out that you could buy a salve of power every mod.
I'm never buying one on principle (OP junk I wish they'd errata. As if most LFR combats weren't straightforward enough without 'Sleep' every single encounter) but I'm in the minority.
when you already have a pretty good belt, that found belt isn't as attractive. Which then gives you a found slot to sell for gold to buy pretty good boots.
The question is: are you better off with two pretty good items (belt and boots, in this example), or with one excellent item (say, belt only)?
Of course it depends to some extent on the items, but personally I would rather have one excellent item than two pretty good items. Especially if these are items with Daily powers (not Properties nor Encounter powers), because I'd rather have one Daily power to use than two.
when you already have a pretty good belt, that found belt isn't as attractive. Which then gives you a found slot to sell for gold to buy pretty good boots.
The question is: are you better off with two pretty good items (belt and boots, in this example), or with one excellent item (say, belt only)?
Of course it depends to some extent on the items, but personally I would rather have one excellent item than two pretty good items. Especially if these are items with Daily powers (not Properties nor Encounter powers), because I'd rather have one Daily power to use than two.
But that's not really the equation - are you better off with two pretty good items that you can be almost certain of getting or with one excellent item that you might get. In every tier so far, I've found(without replaying or spoilers) a level +4 magic item. I've found far fewer items, especially of the non-big 3 kind(weapon/implement, armor, neck) where I'd consider them excellent - excellent for me in a found item is either one of the big 3 or an item that I'd expect to be significantly useful for at least 10 levels.
The other side of the coin, *ahem* , is that you will do something with that coin. The 3000 sounds huge when you are in the 7-10 range, but is far less impressive when you are in the 11-14 range, and really not so awesome when you are in the 14-17 range.
Yes, but the point is that it gets you the item you want, now. By the time you're level 14-17, you can probably find a level-20 item in your loot that you don't need, and can sell for the item you want then. In the meantime you will have spent five or more levels with that cool item you wanted, rather than with an unused treasure pick.
But that's not really the equation - are you better off with two pretty good items that you can be almost certain of getting or with one excellent item that you might get.
True. Good point.
excellent for me in a found item is either one of the big 3 or an item that I'd expect to be significantly useful for at least 10 levels.
Dude, you have high expectations!
Any plussed item cannot remain useful for at least 10 levels. So I guess you never find a useful weapon, armor, implement, or neck-slot item? ;)
excellent for me in a found item is either one of the big 3 or an item that I'd expect to be significantly useful for at least 10 levels.
Dude, you have high expectations!
Any plussed item cannot remain useful for at least 10 levels. So I guess you never find a useful weapon, armor, implement, or neck-slot item? ;)
Big three refers to armor, neck slot, and weapon/implement. Most other items are ranked per tier, rather than multiple per tier, so he epects to get at least a tier's use out of a non-numerically enhanced item.
Big three refers to armor, neck slot, and weapon/implement. Most other items are ranked per tier, rather than multiple per tier, so he epects to get at least a tier's use out of a non-numerically enhanced item.
Yup. As an example, if I found a heroic tier item that I liked a lot, my goal would be that it would be so useful that I'd keep it until I found the paragon tier version of it or something better. I don't expect to get a tier's worth of usefulness out of an armor/neck slot/weapon/implement, though actually, my Bard has gotten roughly that out of Veteran's armor +1 that I bought at 2nd level and is now 11th - as soon as I find +3 armor, it is gone, but it just didn't seem worth swapping it out for a single point of AC.
Big three refers to armor, neck slot, and weapon/implement.
Gah. I knew that. I missed the either/or part of the statement.
Agree about it sometimes not being worth it to take new armor, in particular, for only +1 AC. Although access to new masterwork armor properties sometimes tips the scales.
Gomez
I'm going to see about taking only +2 weapon, armor and a neck in heroic and head into paragon w/ 6-7 free slots. Paragon gear is simply heads and shoulders above heroic choices...
I agree with what has been discussed earlier regarding Salves of Power. They should just make that the standard currency for the known worlds past paragon tier. I do try (and have succeeded thus far) to not have more than one of those per character. Though it always ends up being too good to simply abstain purchasing that first one to begin with. Definitely needs to be limited to a single use / day thing, regardless of number owned.