Two Warlock ideas - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 liathan Feb 24, 2009 15:23:12	My first idea is a build which seems to get stronger in Paragon and already upper heroic tier with kinda weak start. Basically it's a Pala-Lock-Multiclass (anyone suggestions for roleplay/fluff for sucha char ?). As you can imagine, its a CHA-based Feylock-toon with some points in wisdom, intelligence and maybe con. The idea is to use Combat Challenge and then Eyebite. [A question here: If you chose Half-Elf as race, and then chose Eyebite as Diletante power AND multiclass power can you use it twice/encounter then ?] So obviously Tiefling makes a good racial choice, but once again, whats that RP-wise. Paragon Multiclassing would be an option, although a warlock without a pact is...well...not quite a warlock. On the other hand on he will be able to stand around in Heavy Shield and Plate Armor, eyebiting/divine challenging the crap out of his foes, from lvl 11 on even At-Will - so the enemy can decide between -5 on attack or -2 on attack and damage. My other idea is a pure warlock. I just discovered an amazing feat from Dragon 366: Sacrifice to Caiphon [Warlock] Prerequisites: Con 13, warlock Benefit: When you attack with an encounter power that has targets and you miss all targets, then you can deal damage to yourself equal to the level of the power. If you do, you immediately recover the power.
#2 Alphastream Feb 24, 2009 18:54:30	Caiphon is indeed a master you should heed! Dwarf is lots of fun for a melee lock or just normal ranged Infernalock.
#3 _metz_ Feb 24, 2009 20:58:37	The thing with this build is the following: 1. Eye-bite is a very 'save me' power. The Paladin shouldn't have that attitude, as a defender you will get beat on. a LOT. 2. There are a myriad of Paladin abilities that require a melee attack/mark. I am a massive fan of Enfeebling strike for example, combined with some other penalty (looking at Mr. Orb Wizard with Illusory Ambush) You can really make it hard for a monster to hit anything, even you. 3. If you are not up in the monster's face, then you are essentially just using eye-bite as a way to do radiant damage each round. This makes you into a sub-par striker at best - as you will never get curse and divine challenge doesn't scale well, Most monsters will ignore the defender and go beat on the squishies. 4. The whole point with being a defender is to balance your mark with making yourself just enough of a viable target to attack to keep it off the rest of the party. Turning invisible will mean the monster ignores you. -2 and some small radiant damage plus a small amount of damage doesn't equate to the other stuff defenders could be doing with their marks. That's just my 4 cents on the matter. As to a straight warlock, My advice is always infernal, only because con + temps + rod of the infernal, plus other goodies synergies really well with a survivable striker.
#4 bgibbons Feb 25, 2009 11:31:40	A question here: If you chose Half-Elf as race, and then chose Eyebite as Diletante power AND multiclass power can you use it twice/encounter then ? No. Though it's in the section on gaining powers when leveling, the general rule is considered to be "You can take each power only once (you can’t choose the same power multiple times)." (PH, p. 27) On the other hand on he will be able to stand around in Heavy Shield and Plate Armor, eyebiting/divine challenging the crap out of his foes, from lvl 11 on even At-Will - so the enemy can decide between -5 on attack or -2 on attack and damage. Eyebite isn't a bad Dilettante power for a half-elf Cha-based paladin, but there's just not enough synergy between paladin and warlock to build a character entirely around--you essentially end up as both a sub-par striker and sub-par defender, as well as broke from keeping up with both a holy symbol and magic rod. If you want a defender who marks from a distance and forces enemies to choose between attacking you (even when it's not convenient) or taking damage, play an assaulting swordmage. They're actually designed for that task. Call your swordmage a paladin of Corellon (or a paladin of a lost cult of Mystra, if you want to go that RP route). -- Brian Gibbons.
#5 liathan Feb 25, 2009 15:11:30	Thanks for your advices. But I always thought that Holy Symbol can be used as an implement when its just around your neck ? If thats not the case then this toon is indeed quite sub-par. I cant wait Arcane Power :P
#6 kinevon Feb 25, 2009 16:12:00	Thanks for your advices. But I always thought that Holy Symbol can be used as an implement when its just around your neck ? If thats not the case then this toon is indeed quite sub-par. I cant wait Arcane Power :P It can be. The issue the previous poster was referencing is that, in order to keep this PC up to speed, you will need the following in magic items: Armor Weapon Holy Symbol Warlock Implement (rod) Neck Item and possibly a shield Compared to most others: Paladin: Armor Neck Item Holy Symbol Weapon and possibly a shield Warlock: Armor Implement (rod) Neck Item Weapon (pact dagger would actually work for both)
#7 mooninja Feb 26, 2009 7:54:44	My other idea is a pure warlock. I just discovered an amazing feat from Dragon 366: Now the first thing I had to think of was a Infernal Warlock with Hellish Rebuke. Would be quite a nice combo for a Con-Based warlock with a lot of damage guaranteed ! Hit cursed enemy with Hellish Rebuke, Action Point, Encounter Power (hit=damage from encounter power, miss=damage from Hellish Rebuke and Encounter power regained) Any race suggestions ? I thought of a dwarf for the sake of style, Warforged if you dont want to die or Human for usefulness (since you only need CON the extra feat and Dire Radiance are pretty useful) This is one of my pet archetypes. I love the Human Infernal Lock. It goes exceptionally well with the Blood Mage PP too. With all the movement oriented abilities of Infernal pact, Blood mage is a natural fit, much more so that the current class selected one from the PHB. ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== Melik Gregoravich, level 4 Human, Warlock Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast Constitution Eldritch Pact: Infernal Pact FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 19, Dex 12, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 12. Starting Ability Scores Str 8, Con 16, Dex 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12. AC: 17 Fort: 17 Reflex: 17 Will: 15 HP: 46 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 11 TRAINED SKILLS History, Bluff, Insight, Intimidate, Streetwise, Arcana. FEATS 1: Action Surge 1: Arcane Initiate 2: Sacrifice to Caiphon 4: Human Perseverance POWERS 1, At-Will: Dire Radiance 1, Encounter: Scorching Burst 1, Encounter: Vampiric Embrace 1, Daily: Flames of Phlegethos 2, Utility: Beguiling Tongue 3, Encounter: Fiery Bolt ITEMS Leather Armor, Arcane Implement, Rod, Adventurer's Kit, Oil (1 pint) (3), Lantern, Torch, Candle (4), Backpack (empty), Dagger, Grappling Hook, Arcane Implement, Wand ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
#8 mwao_dup Mar 02, 2009 22:45:59	4. The whole point with being a defender is to balance your mark with making yourself just enough of a viable target to attack to keep it off the rest of the party. Turning invisible will mean the monster ignores you. Only if you let it ignore you. The trick is to force it to have horrible options, not merely bad ones. People forget that the Paladin who PMCs Warlock is going to have 2 Warlock Encounter Powers. Otherwind Stride and Mire the Mind can both stop a melee enemy in their tracks. Eyebite's the option where on the 3rd round, you hit them with Eyebite and move up to them - they're then getting offered the opportunity to go after you at -7 to hit or potentially take an Enfeebling Strike+Divine Challenge to the head to make it -6 against anyone else. Things to take: Psychic Melee Weapons(make that -6 into -8) Psychic Lock Heavy Blade Opportunity Anything similar to Daunting Challenge from Martial Power Star of Corellon(and worship that deity) - lets you free up a hand from having to wield an implement.
#9 KarmaInferno Mar 03, 2009 3:03:56	I took Sacrifice to Caiphon for my Bard (multiclass warlock and warlord so far). Works on any power, and I have multiple healing sources available, what's not to like? -karma

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

liathan

Feb 24, 2009 15:23:12

My first idea is a build which seems to get stronger in Paragon and already upper heroic tier with kinda weak start. Basically it's a Pala-Lock-Multiclass (anyone suggestions for roleplay/fluff for sucha char ?). As you can imagine, its a CHA-based Feylock-toon with some points in wisdom, intelligence and maybe con. The idea is to use Combat Challenge and then Eyebite. [A question here: If you chose Half-Elf as race, and then chose Eyebite as Diletante power AND multiclass power can you use it twice/encounter then ?]
So obviously Tiefling makes a good racial choice, but once again, whats that RP-wise.
Paragon Multiclassing would be an option, although a warlock without a pact is...well...not quite a warlock. On the other hand on he will be able to stand around in Heavy Shield and Plate Armor, eyebiting/divine challenging the crap out of his foes, from lvl 11 on even At-Will - so the enemy can decide between -5 on attack or -2 on attack and damage.

My other idea is a pure warlock.
I just discovered an amazing feat from Dragon 366:

Sacrifice to Caiphon [Warlock]
Prerequisites: Con 13, warlock
Benefit: When you attack with an encounter
power that has targets and you miss all targets, then
you can deal damage to yourself equal to the level
of the power. If you do, you immediately recover
the power.

Alphastream

Feb 24, 2009 18:54:30

Caiphon is indeed a master you should heed!

Dwarf is lots of fun for a melee lock or just normal ranged Infernalock.

_metz_

Feb 24, 2009 20:58:37

The thing with this build is the following:

1. Eye-bite is a very 'save me' power. The Paladin shouldn't have that attitude, as a defender you will get beat on. a LOT.

2. There are a myriad of Paladin abilities that require a melee attack/mark. I am a massive fan of Enfeebling strike for example, combined with some other penalty (looking at Mr. Orb Wizard with Illusory Ambush) You can really make it hard for a monster to hit anything, even you.

3. If you are not up in the monster's face, then you are essentially just using eye-bite as a way to do radiant damage each round. This makes you into a sub-par striker at best - as you will never get curse and divine challenge doesn't scale well, Most monsters will ignore the defender and go beat on the squishies.

4. The whole point with being a defender is to balance your mark with making yourself *just enough* of a viable target to attack to keep it off the rest of the party. Turning invisible will mean the monster ignores you.

-2 and some small radiant damage plus a small amount of damage doesn't equate to the other stuff defenders could be doing with their marks.

That's just my 4 cents on the matter.

As to a straight warlock, My advice is always infernal, only because con + temps + rod of the infernal, plus other goodies synergies really well with a survivable striker.

bgibbons

Feb 25, 2009 11:31:40

A question here: If you chose Half-Elf as race, and then chose Eyebite as Diletante power AND multiclass power can you use it twice/encounter then ?

No.

Though it's in the section on gaining powers when leveling, the general rule is considered to be "You can take each power only once (you can’t choose the same power multiple times)." (PH, p. 27)

On the other hand on he will be able to stand around in Heavy Shield and Plate Armor, eyebiting/divine challenging the crap out of his foes, from lvl 11 on even At-Will - so the enemy can decide between -5 on attack or -2 on attack and damage.

Eyebite isn't a bad Dilettante power for a half-elf Cha-based paladin, but there's just not enough synergy between paladin and warlock to build a character entirely around--you essentially end up as both a sub-par striker and sub-par defender, as well as broke from keeping up with both a holy symbol and magic rod.

If you want a defender who marks from a distance and forces enemies to choose between attacking you (even when it's not convenient) or taking damage, play an assaulting swordmage. They're actually designed for that task. Call your swordmage a paladin of Corellon (or a paladin of a lost cult of Mystra, if you want to go that RP route).

-- Brian Gibbons.

liathan

Feb 25, 2009 15:11:30

Thanks for your advices. But I always thought that Holy Symbol can be used as an implement when its just around your neck ? If thats not the case then this toon is indeed quite sub-par.

I cant wait Arcane Power :P

kinevon

Feb 25, 2009 16:12:00

Thanks for your advices. But I always thought that Holy Symbol can be used as an implement when its just around your neck ? If thats not the case then this toon is indeed quite sub-par.

I cant wait Arcane Power :P

It can be. The issue the previous poster was referencing is that, in order to keep this PC up to speed, you will need the following in magic items:
Armor
Weapon
Holy Symbol
Warlock Implement (rod)
Neck Item
and possibly a shield

Compared to most others:

Paladin:
Armor
Neck Item
Holy Symbol
Weapon
and possibly a shield

Warlock:
Armor
Implement (rod)
Neck Item
Weapon (pact dagger would actually work for both)

mooninja

Feb 26, 2009 7:54:44

My other idea is a pure warlock.
I just discovered an amazing feat from Dragon 366:

Now the first thing I had to think of was a Infernal Warlock with Hellish Rebuke. Would be quite a nice combo for a Con-Based warlock with a lot of damage guaranteed !

Hit cursed enemy with Hellish Rebuke, Action Point, Encounter Power (hit=damage from encounter power, miss=damage from Hellish Rebuke and Encounter power regained)

Any race suggestions ? I thought of a dwarf for the sake of style, Warforged if you dont want to die or Human for usefulness (since you only need CON the extra feat and Dire Radiance are pretty useful)

This is one of my pet archetypes.

I love the Human Infernal Lock. It goes exceptionally well with the Blood Mage PP too. With all the movement oriented abilities of Infernal pact, Blood mage is a natural fit, much more so that the current class selected one from the PHB.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Melik Gregoravich, level 4
Human, Warlock
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast Constitution
Eldritch Pact: Infernal Pact

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 19, Dex 12, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 12.

Starting Ability Scores
Str 8, Con 16, Dex 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12.

AC: 17 Fort: 17 Reflex: 17 Will: 15
HP: 46 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 11

TRAINED SKILLS
History, Bluff, Insight, Intimidate, Streetwise, Arcana.

FEATS
1: Action Surge
1: Arcane Initiate
2: Sacrifice to Caiphon
4: Human Perseverance

POWERS
1, At-Will: Dire Radiance
1, Encounter: Scorching Burst
1, Encounter: Vampiric Embrace
1, Daily: Flames of Phlegethos
2, Utility: Beguiling Tongue
3, Encounter: Fiery Bolt

ITEMS
Leather Armor, Arcane Implement, Rod, Adventurer's Kit, Oil (1 pint) (3), Lantern, Torch, Candle (4), Backpack (empty), Dagger, Grappling Hook, Arcane Implement, Wand
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======

mwao_dup

Mar 02, 2009 22:45:59

4. The whole point with being a defender is to balance your mark with making yourself *just enough* of a viable target to attack to keep it off the rest of the party. Turning invisible will mean the monster ignores you.

Only if you let it ignore you. The trick is to force it to have horrible options, not merely bad ones. People forget that the Paladin who PMCs Warlock is going to have 2 Warlock Encounter Powers. Otherwind Stride and Mire the Mind can both stop a melee enemy in their tracks.

Eyebite's the option where on the 3rd round, you hit them with Eyebite and move up to them - they're then getting offered the opportunity to go after you at -7 to hit or potentially take an Enfeebling Strike+Divine Challenge to the head to make it -6 against anyone else.

Things to take:
Psychic Melee Weapons(make that -6 into -8)
Psychic Lock
Heavy Blade Opportunity
Anything similar to Daunting Challenge from Martial Power
Star of Corellon(and worship that deity) - lets you free up a hand from having to wield an implement.

KarmaInferno

Mar 03, 2009 3:03:56

I took Sacrifice to Caiphon for my Bard (multiclass warlock and warlord so far).

Works on any power, and I have multiple healing sources available, what's not to like?

-karma