Viable Arcane Archer (Elf Warlock/Ranger)

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

gadren

Jan 31, 2009 19:56:52
So, I know you're thinking, "Elf warlock? Pass!" But this actually works pretty well, and is probably the best option right now for those who want to recreate a 3.x Arcane Archer:

IMAGE(http://www.foroswebgratis.com/imagenes_foros/6/1/6/6/7/382226ArcaneArcher.jpg)


HEROIC TIER:

Level 1:
Starting Stats: STR 8, CON 12, DEX 16, INT 13, WIS 15, CHA 16 (These are with legal point buy after elf racial adjustments).
Race:Elf
Class: Warlock (Fey-Pact)
Feat: Warrior of the Wild
Powers: At Wills: Eldritch Blast, Eye Bite. Encounter: Witchfire. Daily: Curse of the Dark Dream
Weapon: Longbow (you know how to use this as an elf)
Armor: Leather
Level 1 Tips: Luckily, you don't need an implement to use implement powers, so you can have that arcane archer feel from level 1 with a bow (that you know how use as an elf). You can make basic attacks with the bow when you want to hit a target far away, and otherwise use your warlock powers as normal. As soon as possible, you'll want to get a +1 Pact Bow (Dragon 369). It's only a level 2 item (520 gp), and it is the backbone of an Arcane Archer. Once you have one, feel free to describe your delivery of your Warlock Powers in a more "arcane archer" way, referring to your Eldritch Blast as your "Eldritch Arrow" and saying that you deliver your Witchfire and Curse of the Dark Dream with similarly magically conjured arrows. (If the DM objects to you describing you powers as such, even when nothing mechanically changes, I suggest finding another table.)
Also, note that once per encounter, you can designate one target as your quarry until the end of your next turn. THIS STACKS WITH CURSE. Two rounds of Quarry on top of your Curse will really boost your damage potential, and is particularly useful against elites and solos.

Level 2:
-UTILITY: Ethereal Stride(You want to stay away from enemies!)
-FEAT: Weapon Focus: Bows (When using a pact bow as an implement, this applies to your warlock powers!)

Level 3:
-ENCOUNTER: Otherwind Stride (This is useful for escaping persistent melee attackers. KEEP YOUR TERRAIN IN MIND! Teleport is in any direction, so see if there are any ledges within 6 squares you could land on to frustrate melee monsters.)

Level 4: +1 dex / +1 cha
-FEAT: Novice Power (Replace Witchfire with Two-Fanged Strike.)

Level 5:
-DAILY: Curse of the Bloody Fangs (Very appropriate thematically, and probably the best of the cha-based powers of this level, anyways.)

Level 6:
-FEAT: Sacrifice to Caiphon (Note that the wording of the feat doesn't limit it to Warlock powers.)
-UTILITY: Dark One's Own Luck (I'd recommend saving this for an important saving throw.)

Level 7:
-ENCOUNTER: Mire the Mind

Level 8: +1 dex / +1 cha (woot! 18's!)
-FEAT: Elven Precision

Level 9:
-DAILY: Curse of the Black Frost

Level 10:
-FEAT: Adept Power (Swap Curse of the Black Frost for Ranger's Recovery (Martial Power))
-UTILITY: Shielding Shades (Save for a crit, or when a hit would reduce you to 0)

PARAGON TIER:
Level 11 (Elf Warlock/Ranger):
Stats: STR 9, CON 13, DEX 19, INT 14, WIS 16, CHA 19
Paragon Path: Sylvan Archer (Martial Power)
FEATS: Warrior of the Wild, Weapon Focus: Bows, Novice Power, Sacrifice to Caiphon, Adept Power, Uncanny Dodge, Running Shot (Note: Elven Accuracy was retrained for Uncanny Dodge. Combined with Running Shot, you can run every round without penalty, unless you face rogue-type monsters.)
ATTACK POWERS:
Encounter: Two-Fanged Strike, Otherwind Stride, Mire the Mind, Shaft Splinter
Daily: Curse of the Dark Dream, Curse of the Bloody Fangs, Ranger's Recovery
UTILITY POWERS: Ethereal Stride, Dark One's Own Luck, Shield Shades
Ideal Gear: +3 Pact Bow, +3 Drowmesh Armor, Cloak of Distortion +2, Bracers of Archery +2, Wildrunners, Eagle Eye Goggles, Viper Belt, 5 Potions of Clarity, 4 Alchemist Fire Arrows (lvl 7), 3 Bloodstinger Poisons (lvl 8)

Level 12:
-UTILITY: Elf-Eyed Archery (This is a FANTASTIC power for someone who has multiclassed into ranger, because it finally allows you to quarry someone for the entire encounter!)
-FEAT: Lethal Hunter

Level 13:
-ENCOUNTER: Hammering Volley (Replaces Two-Fanged Strike)

Level 14: +1 dex / +1 cha
-FEAT: Combat Anticipation

Level 15:
-DAILY: Curse of the Golden Mist (Replaces Curse of the Dark Dream)

Level 16:
-FEAT: Fast Runner
-UTILITY: Infuriating Elusiveness

Level 17:
-ENCOUNTER: Thirsting Tendrils (Replaces Otherwind Stride)

Level 18: +1 dex / +1 cha
-FEAT: Sly Hunter

Level 19:
-DAILY: Wrath of Acamar (Replaces Curse of the Bloody Fangs)

Level 20:
-DAILY: Named Arrow
-FEAT: Acolyte Power

EPIC TIER:
LEVEL 21:
-EPIC DESTINY: Chosen of Corellon (FRPG) - Put the two +2's into dex and charisma
-FEAT: Student of the Athanaeum (Dragon 366)
-FEAT RETRAIN: Drop Sly Hunter for Peerless Hunter (When you use the elf-eyed archery and named arrow powers, you can quarry an extra target, which isn't subject to the Warrior of the Wild "end of next turn" clause!)

LEVEL 22:
-FEAT: Martial Mastery
-FEAT RETRAIN: Drop Sacrifice to Caiphon for Staggering Shot (Sacrifice to Caiphon is starting to cost too much, and Staggering Shot is a great way for keeping a persistent enemy away, or someone important from escaping.)
-UTILITY: Forest Ghost (Ranger) (This power is particularly good as a warlock, since you will turn invisible every time you move three squares, thanks to synergy with Shadow Walk)

LEVEL 23:
-ENCOUNTER: Thorns of Venom (Replaces Mire the Mind)

LEVEL 24: +1 dex / +1 cha
-FEAT: Hawk-Eye Warrior

LEVEL 25:
-DAILY: Ranger's Resurgence (Replaces Ranger's Recovery)

LEVEL 26:
-UTILITY: High Arcana (No choice here)
-FEAT: Correcting Aim

LEVEL 27:
-ENCOUNTER: Drop Hammering Volley for either Manticore's Volley or Hail of Arrows (Manticore if you want to focus on a single target, Hail if you want to attack nearly everyone on the field for low damage. I really only suggest hail if your DM really likes minions.)

LEVEL 28: +1 dex / +1 cha
-FEAT: Fleet-Footed

LEVEL 29:
-DAILY: Caiphon's Abominable Melody

LEVEL 30:
-FEAT: Evasion (Hopefully when Arcane Power comes out there will be some better epic feat choices for warlocks.)
#2

gadren

Jan 31, 2009 19:57:34
Notable "Arcane Archery" Items:
-Pact Bow (Of Course)
-Cloak of Distortion (Stay 5 away from enemies and your defenses are all effectively 5 better!)
-Bracer's of Archery (The bonus also applies to warlock powers delivered via the Pact Bow)
-Gloves of Eldritch Admixture (can be used with any power, not just warlock's)
-Feystep Lacings (Good for getting away from adjacent attackers if you use up your other teleportation powers.)
-Ring of Tenacious Will (Use Cha for healing surges, daily useful if you get smacked down too far from the healer)


Want some of these warlock powers to seem more Arcane-Archer-like?
Power re-flavoring (fluff only):

Eye-Biter Arrow
(Originally Eyebite)
An arrow gleaming with brilliant colors sails from your bow into your enemy's brow. His mind is bombarded with painful light, and when his sight clears, you are nowhere to be seen.

Eldritch Arrow (Originally Eldritch Blast)
You launch an arrow of crackling energy at your foe.

Witchfire Arrow (Originally Witchfire)
From the mystic energies of the Feywild, you summon an arrow of brilliant white flame and loose it upon your enemy. Rivulets of argent fire stream up into the air from his eyes, his mouth, and his hands; agony disrupts his very thoughts.

Dark Dreamer's Arrow (Originally Curse of the Dark Dream)
Your hallucinogenic arrow inflicts a waking nightmare upon your enemy so that he can no longer tell what is real and what exists only in his mind. Under its influence he staggers about, trying to avoid falling from imaginary heights or stepping on unreal serpents.
#3

_metz_

Feb 02, 2009 0:45:38
Why Fey Pact? just for flavour? I think its pact boon is nearly useless compared to Infernal, Dark, and even Star.

Moreover, the pact bow is going to force you into always being 1 or 2 behind the enhancement bonus required to steadily hit things, as it is something you will need to upgrade yourself.

An interesting build though. You get a cookie for thinking outside of the box.

(I really hate the lack of variation in many 4e PCs)
#4

gadren

Feb 02, 2009 1:53:37
Why Fey Pact? just for flavour? I think its pact boon is nearly useless compared to Infernal, Dark, and even Star.

I DID choose fey mainly for flavor. However, their pact is not nearly as useless as you think, and their at-will is nice too.

Moreover, the pact bow is going to force you into always being 1 or 2 behind the enhancement bonus required to steadily hit things, as it is something you will need to upgrade yourself.

Hmmm, I've not yet had the opportunity to actually play in any LFR games (grrr), so I'm not too familiar with how much higher treasure bundles are. Are treasure bundle items usually THAT much higher in level that you must depend on using found weapons? You should be able to buy a Pact Bow +1 at level 2, and a +2 at level 7, is that too low?

An interesting build though. You get a cookie for thinking outside of the box.

(I really hate the lack of variation in many 4e PCs)

Thanks!
#5

_metz_

Feb 02, 2009 2:40:39
You basically get far too little gold to really maintain several non-standard items in my experience.

For example, by level 7, you can afford 2 level 6 items that you purchased yourself, and a couple of low level items.

The difference is that you will fall behind in the 7-10 band especially once +3 items start popping up (Which they have).

I really am not a fan of the 4th ed economic system.

As to the Fey pact, it is random teleportation that is occasionally useful, unlike Temps/Darkspiral Aura/Star pact bonus which are useful ALL the time.

If you are an archer especially, what major use is randomly blinking around the battlefield when you aren't in combat?

This is based on my experience thus far.

In regards to Eye-bite, I think it is very effective when combined with a mark (Aegis of Shielding or Paladins Mark specifically)
#6

telvin3d

Feb 02, 2009 12:22:07
Are treasure bundle items usually THAT much higher in level that you must depend on using found weapons? You should be able to buy a Pact Bow +1 at level 2, and a +2 at level 7, is that too low?

Not in and of itself. The +1 weapon is a wash. Other players might get it one or two adventures sooner, but that isn't significant. Most players using found weapons get +2 around level 4, so that will put you down by 1 to hit for three levels until you can buy your bow. Still that is only 1 point down, and you may get lucky and find one in an adventure.

The potential problem is the weapon bonus difference combined with your stats. Most ranged characters have at least an 18 and often a 20 for their main stat where as you are sitting on 16s. Combined, that will have you down by two or three from your contemporaries.

Now, all things considered, it could be worse. On the whole LFR isn't really designed for optimized characters, so your build should be very playable in 90% of adventures. I'd stay away from the SPEC adventures as they tend to be brutal, but that's about it.
#7

bgibbons

Feb 02, 2009 17:51:32
So, I know you're thinking, "Elf warlock? Pass!" But this actually works pretty well, and is probably the best option right now for those who want to recreate a 3.x Arcane Archer

The usual trade-off of an odd class combination is that you're not as good as a specialist, but you get more options. A ranger/cleric, for example, has abilities in both classes that benefit from high Wisdom, and gains access to both leader and striker powers; they might not be as good with them as a dedicated leader or striker, but they have more options available to them.

Perhaps I'm just missing some synergies, but it looks to me like a warlock/ranger just does one thing--do damage from range--but doesn't do it as well as a dedicated ranger or warlock, and loses out on any benefits from either classes' powers that use secondary stats, since there's no stat overlap at all.

It's certainly playable, in the sense that it's difficult to make a completely unplayable character in 4e, but that's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

If you really like the flavor of an elf shooting magic from his bow, I'd just make an elf warlock, use a pact bow as your implement, and describe the effects of your powers as being shot from your bow.

This would still be a bit sub-par, as compared to the average warlock, but not significantly so. Sadly, you can't be a half-elven warlock with a pact bow (which would make this idea slightly better), as half-elves only count as elves for purposes of feats, not magic items.

-- Brian Gibbons.
#8

gadren

Feb 03, 2009 0:31:02
Perhaps I'm just missing some synergies, but it looks to me like a warlock/ranger just does one thing--do damage from range--but doesn't do it as well as a dedicated ranger or warlock, and loses out on any benefits from either classes' powers that use secondary stats, since there's no stat overlap at all.

The synergy is that hunter's quarry stacks with warlock's curse. That's not much at heroic, when you only get two potential rounds of quarry per encounter, but at 12 (when you pick up elf-eyed archery) this becomes substantially better.
Obviously, it takes a long time to get to 12, but the class still should play ok before then.
I was just hoping this build would be as much fan as it has been in a standard game, but I didn't realize LFR had created that kind of disparity between found weapons and bought weapons.
#9

kinevon

Feb 03, 2009 4:38:10
The synergy is that hunter's quarry stacks with warlock's curse. That's not much at heroic, when you only get two potential rounds of quarry per encounter, but at 12 (when you pick up elf-eyed archery) this becomes substantially better.
Obviously, it takes a long time to get to 12, but the class still should play ok before then.
I was just hoping this build would be as much fan as it has been in a standard game, but I didn't realize LFR had created that kind of disparity between found weapons and bought weapons.

To be honest, the rogue already does pretty much that kind of damage whwnever they have combat advantage, which isn't that hard to gain.

Not so much a disparity, but found items are just about the only way to have equipment over level. In a home game, items found will be a bit sparser, in some ways, but more tailored to the party members.

LFR uses more generic treasure setups, designed to handle parties of unknown composition, and there is a limit to how often you can gain a free (found) magic item.

4th Edition, as also noted, tends to run a bit light on the gold compared to level. Given 3 modules to go from 1st to 2nd level, and a total gold found of 225 to 375, and it is difficult to buy even a 1st level item until you reach 2nd level of higher.
#10

sehmerus

Feb 03, 2009 8:50:13
regardless I applaud the effort in design, I also tried to mimmic the arcane archer, but i did with a ranger/wizard multiclass, but it didnt turn out well for me, (tho to be fair the character didnt last long enouph to give it a leangthy try, as she dies at lvl3) but the pact bow impliment was awsome wish i thought of that.
#11

mwao_dup

Feb 08, 2009 14:13:41
You basically get far too little gold to really maintain several non-standard items in my experience.

The difference is that you will fall behind in the 7-10 band especially once +3 items start popping up (Which they have).

Which if you've been hoarding found items, means you can find those +3 items and sell them. A 13th level found item basically translates into an ideal bought 8th level item.

There are builds where that specific found item can make a difference. As an example, a Cloak of Distortion (X-1) for a ranged attacker build vs. almost any other cloak. A Pact Bow which grants both a weapon and implement for this build.

I think I see a few issues for the build:
Int is low for a Fey Warlock - of all the various pacts, Fey seems most reliant on having a high Int. When Witchfire gives the target a -6 to attack rolls, you've basically negated a round of actions by the target. This build only has a -3. Which is useful, but not the equivalent of say Daze. You might be better off with Star Pact - yes, you're not hitting with the at-will, but the pact seems significantly more useful to an archer - killing a cursed minion for a +2 to hit...

I think Dex needs to be 18 to start out - the build needs a way of confirming hits and it benefits AC. A stat buy of say:
Str 8, Con 12, Dex 18, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 16 makes you a half decent archer. Yes, your Wisdom isn't that great, but you need to make sure you hit your other options. Yes, this delays Sacrifice to Caiphon to 11th or 12th, which isn't fun, but...this will make up for the penalty of needing a pact bow.

Elf-Eyed Archery - you get to name the target as your quarry. It doesn't specify that it lasts the whole combat, so I'd figure it lasts as long as your normal quarry would. In the case of a Ranger, that's the entire combat. In the case of your build, that's until the end of the next round. It does mean you're likely to have a target quarried throughout any given combat, but...
#12

gadren

Feb 08, 2009 14:24:44
Elf-Eyed Archery - you get to name the target as your quarry. It doesn't specify that it lasts the whole combat, so I'd figure it lasts as long as your normal quarry would. In the case of a Ranger, that's the entire combat. In the case of your build, that's until the end of the next round. It does mean you're likely to have a target quarried throughout any given combat, but...

The feat Warrior of the Wild says the following: "Once per encounter, you can use the ranger's Hunter's Quarry class feature. The target you designate as your quarry remains your quarry until the end of your next turn." It just applies to the quarry from the feat. A quarry you gain from some other source has nothing restricting it.
#13

mwao_dup

Feb 08, 2009 14:43:17
The feat Warrior of the Wild says the following: "Once per encounter, you can use the ranger's Hunter's Quarry class feature. The target you designate as your quarry remains your quarry until the end of your next turn." It just applies to the quarry from the feat. A quarry you gain from some other source has nothing restricting it.

The Sylvan Archer ability doesn't say you use Hunter's Quarry as if a Ranger, it says you quarry it. Your ability to quarry is from Warrior of the Wild, which lasts until the end of your next turn.
#14

gadren

Feb 08, 2009 19:21:06
The Sylvan Archer ability doesn't say you use Hunter's Quarry as if a Ranger, it says you quarry it. Your ability to quarry is from Warrior of the Wild, which lasts until the end of your next turn.

So are you saying that even using elf-eyed archery I can only quarry once per combat?
#15

bgibbons

Feb 08, 2009 20:22:55
Your ability to quarry is from Warrior of the Wild, which lasts until the end of your next turn.

Your ability to quarry is, in this instance, from Elf-Eyed Archery, which says, "You designate the target as your quarry".

Any limitations that you may or may not have on other uses of the quarry ability aren't relevant here. Indeed, you can take this paragon path even if you don't have any other way to quarry (for example, if you take the Two-Blade Warrior feat instead of the Warrior of the Wild feat)

-- Brian Gibbons.
#16

gadren

Feb 08, 2009 20:57:15
Your ability to quarry is, in this instance, from Elf-Eyed Archery, which says, "You designate the target as your quarry".

Any limitations that you may or may not have on other uses of the quarry ability aren't relevant here. Indeed, you can take this paragon path even if you don't have any other way to quarry (for example, if you take the Two-Blade Warrior feat instead of the Warrior of the Wild feat)

-- Brian Gibbons.

That's what I was thinking.
#17

mwao_dup

Feb 08, 2009 22:06:22
Any limitations that you may or may not have on other uses of the quarry ability aren't relevant here. Indeed, you can take this paragon path even if you don't have any other way to quarry (for example, if you take the Two-Blade Warrior feat instead of the Warrior of the Wild feat)

-- Brian Gibbons.

Sure they're relevant. They're relevant until the ability says they're not relevant.

If you took Two-Blade Warrior, you have no ability to quarry, so you don't benefit. Just as a character multiclassed into Warlock can't pick up a Quickcurse Rod and therefore do Warlock curse damage.

The two(Elf-Eyed Archer/Quickcurse Rod) are almost identical in wording. Just the Quickcurse Rod is a free action, comes from an item, and doesn't have a need to override the limitations on Hunter's Quarry. If you're arguing that Elf-Eyed Archery can do this, then you're arguing that a Ranger/Warlock can use a 520 gp Quickcurse Rod to do both Hunter's Quarry and Warlock's Curse.

Try that out on your DMs for size...
#18

gadren

Feb 09, 2009 13:42:45
Sure they're relevant. They're relevant until the ability says they're not relevant.

If you took Two-Blade Warrior, you have no ability to quarry, so you don't benefit. Just as a character multiclassed into Warlock can't pick up a Quickcurse Rod and therefore do Warlock curse damage.

The two(Elf-Eyed Archer/Quickcurse Rod) are almost identical in wording. Just the Quickcurse Rod is a free action, comes from an item, and doesn't have a need to override the limitations on Hunter's Quarry. If you're arguing that Elf-Eyed Archery can do this, then you're arguing that a Ranger/Warlock can use a 520 gp Quickcurse Rod to do both Hunter's Quarry and Warlock's Curse.

Try that out on your DMs for size...

That is a total strawman argument and you know it.
#19

mwao_dup

Feb 09, 2009 15:12:56
That is a total strawman argument and you know it.

If a character multiclassed Ranger without the ability to Quarry can use Hunter's Quarry to do damage, so can a character multiclassed into Warlock use a Warlock's Curse to do damage - if they can do a Warlock's Curse.

This is straightforward. A Quickcurse Rod clearly lets someone multiclassed into Warlock do a Warlock's curse. Most DMs will rule that they don't have the class feature Warlock's Curse, so they can't actually inflict damage or gain the pact boon.

If you follow that logic, they should rule exactly the same way for you. You don't have the class feature Hunter's Quarry, therefore you can't do damage.

You want to call that a strawman argument, that's fine with me. The sooner you realize it isn't, the less disappointed you'll be when DMs constantly rule against you...
#20

matteblack

Feb 09, 2009 22:15:53
Artificer can do a fair job of repping an Arcane Archer.
#21

gadren

Feb 09, 2009 23:29:33
Artificer can do a fair job of repping an Arcane Archer.

I know, but I was trying to make a build that makes the Pact Bow actually useful. Apparently, in the RPGA, that's not possible.

Oh well, at least this build works well in a standard game.
#22

mwao_dup

Feb 10, 2009 0:29:04
I know, but I was trying to make a build that makes the Pact Bow actually useful. Apparently, in the RPGA, that's not possible.

There's nothing inherently wrong with your build if you can't hunter's quarry a solo for the entire encounter. So you can only quarry for 4 rounds out of most combats...

If the difference between quarrying one target the entire combat to four rounds means your build goes from working 'pretty well, best option for arcane archer' to 'not actually useful - sob, why does the RPGA hate me', then you need to re-evaluate how you judge builds.

Oh well, at least this build works well in a standard game.

If you believe that one, try going onto the 4e CharOpt boards and explaining why your build is different than a Ranger/Warlock using a Quickcurse Rod...
#23

telvin3d

Feb 10, 2009 10:01:18
I know, but I was trying to make a build that makes the Pact Bow actually useful. Apparently, in the RPGA, that's not possible.

Oh well, at least this build works well in a standard game.

Actually, in many ways you are almost better off playing that type of character in LFR than many normal games. In home games, it is not unusual for DMs to use the occasional fight that is party level +3 or +4. Those are the situations where being less optimized than the rest of the party becomes obvious. In LFR it is rare to see a fight higher than party level +1. Just about any build is perfectly playable and survivable.

This one looks fun. I'd say go for it.
#24

bgibbons

Feb 10, 2009 12:36:42
The two(Elf-Eyed Archer/Quickcurse Rod) are almost identical in wording. Just the Quickcurse Rod is a free action, comes from an item, and doesn't have a need to override the limitations on Hunter's Quarry. If you're arguing that Elf-Eyed Archery can do this, then you're arguing that a Ranger/Warlock can use a 520 gp Quickcurse Rod to do both Hunter's Quarry and Warlock's Curse.

That's an interesting argument. The real answer, of course, is that authors coming up with class-focused magic items and paragon paths usually don't even contemplate multi-class PCs. If you asked R&D about this, their answer would be that it's a silly question--the rules assume an active DM deciding what type of campaign he wants and which interpretation of the rules support that. Unfortunately, we don't have that.

I'd have to say that, yes, if you can use the rod implement, the Quickcurse Rod lets you place a Warlock's Curse once per encounter, because the power clearly states you can. However, since the power doesn't say you can use the Warlock's Curse ability, you don't deal any extra curse damage.

Elf-Eyed Archery says that designate the target as your quarry, so you plainly can do that. Whether you can deal extra damage to that quarry is an open question. I could argue either way from the RAW of this power and I doubt you can argue a RAI even exists, so it's pretty much up to the whim of your DM; as such, I can't say I'd recommend building a character around this.

The one thing I'm sure about is that the duration of the quarry from Warrior of the Wild has nothing to do with Elf-Eyed Archery. They are two separate ways of accessing an ability, and the limitations on one has nothing to do with the other.

-- Brian Gibbons.
#25

Alphastream

Feb 10, 2009 15:25:32
I agree that the quarry should likely last two rounds in each case, as per the source of the power, but it isn't perfectly clear. Reading the Warrior of the Wild with errata and Sylvan Archer, I would go by the "remains your quarry until the end of your next turn.”

Regarding the build, it looks like a lot of fun and full of flavor. The downside I see is that you are giving up a big part of what allows warlocks to remain competitive with other strikers, and that's rods. While the rules are a bit ambiguous, it seems pretty clear that you must wield rods to benefit from the property. Accepting that, you can wield two of them, many of which will work to create benefits that are much needed to the average warlock.

For example, Mercurial for its Daily power or Quickcurse for the Encounter and then Vicious in the main hand, or Bloodcurse in the main hand and Dark Reward, or Reaving in the main and Corruption, etc.

The ability to wield two rods (or even one) is a big part of having a decent damage output as a warlock. Otherwise, your damage looks very... well, a lot like a bard.

A bow, being a two-handed weapon, will make using any rod a difficult thing to do. Quickdraw offers some options, but if we want to compare, then warlocks with Quickdraw look even better, as they can use a variety of rods for the right occasion. (Such as Quickcurse early in the encounter, then Vicious and Corruption, then trade Corruption for Dark Reward or any other number of fun combos.

Speaking of bard, depending on how their implements work out, they could make for an interesting arcane archer. They aren't strikers, but they would be more of an illusionary arcane archer type. It could be very interesting and a lot of fun.

I agree that the build should be fine for LFR either way. I've thrown some fairly sub-optimal builds at mods without much issue (dwarven rogue! Woot!). The thing to watch out for is if you have a table where everyone just makes the level band. All 1st level, all 4th, all 7th... that's when the monsters tend to pose a tremendous challenge due to your lower HPs, healing surge values, and ability to hit, plus the number of daily/encounter resources PCs can unleash.
#26

mwao_dup

Feb 10, 2009 16:22:50
I'd have to say that, yes, if you can use the rod implement, the Quickcurse Rod lets you place a Warlock's Curse once per encounter, because the power clearly states you can. However, since the power doesn't say you can use the Warlock's Curse ability, you don't deal any extra curse damage.

Elf-Eyed Archery says that designate the target as your quarry, so you plainly can do that. Whether you can deal extra damage to that quarry is an open question. I could argue either way from the RAW of this power and I doubt you can argue a RAI even exists, so it's pretty much up to the whim of your DM; as such, I can't say I'd recommend building a character around this.

Whichever way you decide, the answer is the same. You gain the ability to place a curse/quarry a target. Once that's done, the damage component is the next part. If Quickcurse Rod can't access the 2nd paragraph, neither can Elf-Eyed Archery.

As I think the RAI of a Quickcurse Rod is abundantly clear(as in NO - everyone multiclassed into a Warlock is not intended to be able to pick up the striker role for nearly nothing), that's how it goes for Elf-Eyed Archery unless you have a Quarry ability. At which point, because the power does not state otherwise, you follow the limits of that Quarry ability except where noted(in particular, the extra use)

Powers intended to last the entire encounter state such - now the writers might have forgotten about characters capable of joining the paragon path without a real quarry ability, but that's how it goes...
#27

bgibbons

Feb 10, 2009 19:16:35
I agree that the quarry should likely last two rounds in each case, as per the source of the power, but it isn't perfectly clear. Reading the Warrior of the Wild with errata and Sylvan Archer, I would go by the "remains your quarry until the end of your next turn.”

If the quarry duration of the Warrior of the Wild feat applies to your use of Hunter's Quarry as a whole (even from completely different powers), then I would have to conclude that the "once per encounter" limitation also applies to your use of Hunter's Quarry, which means that, in an encounter, you can either quarry from WotW or quarry from another power, but not both (making Elf-Eyed Archery almost entirely worthless).

I could make the argument that Elf-Eyed Archery lets you designate a quarry to whom you can deal quarry damage for the rest of the encounter. (The term "your quarry" implies the ability to deal damage in a way that the neutral "place a curse" does not; the phrase "you can still deal your HQ damage only once per round" grants the ability to deal damage.)

I could make the argument that Elf-Eyed Archery lets you designate a quarry, but that you aren't able to deal quarry damage, so the designation is pointless. (Designating a quarry and dealing damage are two separate issues; the limitation at the end of the paragraph is just a restriction that does not grant you the ability unless you already have it.)

The only argument I would find it difficult to make is that you can use Elf-Eyed Archery to quarry and deal quarry damage, but only subject to limitations from a completely unrelated feat. (Completely unrelated. You can take this paragon path even if you don't have that feat.)

Each use of the ability stands on its own. If you gain access to a class ability through two different means, each should be considered separately.

-- Brian Gibbons.
#28

gadren

Feb 10, 2009 20:39:39
There's nothing inherently wrong with your build if you can't hunter's quarry a solo for the entire encounter. So you can only quarry for 4 rounds out of most combats...

If the difference between quarrying one target the entire combat to four rounds means your build goes from working 'pretty well, best option for arcane archer' to 'not actually useful - sob, why does the RPGA hate me', then you need to re-evaluate how you judge builds.

Uhm, the little extra damage this build does from quarry+curse (little bit extra compared to rogue's sneak attack), is the ONLY thing MECHANICALLY this class has going for it, and plenty that, well, isn't. The quarry gets taken away and its just a nifty concept. Nifty concepts are great, but if your nifty concept is basically a handicap to the party, then it's not going to seem so nifty.

If you believe that one, try going onto the 4e CharOpt boards and explaining why your build is different than a Ranger/Warlock using a Quickcurse Rod...

I still don't understand what point you're trying to make with the whole Quickcurse Rod, but I did post this build on the CharOp boards (before I posted it here, in fact) and I got nothing but positive responses. /shrug
#29

mwao_dup

Feb 10, 2009 21:42:10
Uhm, the little extra damage this build does from quarry+curse (little bit extra compared to rogue's sneak attack), is the ONLY thing MECHANICALLY this class has going for it, and plenty that, well, isn't. The quarry gets taken away and its just a nifty concept. Nifty concepts are great, but if your nifty concept is basically a handicap to the party, then it's not going to seem so nifty.

And in most combats, practically speaking, they're the same thing. Quarried targets tend to get concentrated on by the rest of the party to bring them down fast.

I still don't understand what point you're trying to make with the whole Quickcurse Rod, but I did post this build on the CharOp boards (before I posted it here, in fact) and I got nothing but positive responses. /shrug

The Quickcurse Rod is the exact same mechanism. If a Ranger with Two-Blade Warrior can use Elf-Eyed Archery to Quarry and do damage despite completely lacking the class feature, a Paladin/Warlock can use a Quickcurse Rod to place a Warlock's Curse on a target and do damage. Except the Paladin can buy 8 of the stupid things for about 4k and Warlock's Curse every opponent. You want to make an Elven Arcane Archer by your ruling? You start off with Ranger, you get Twin Strike, and you multiclass into Warlock so you can use Quickcurse Rods.

The only real difference is that no one will have heard of Sylvan Archer and they might take you at your word that you can do it if you don't point out why it could be illegal.

You got a lot of 'ooh, I like elven arcane archers for flavor' - you didn't get anyone really taking a close look at it mechanically. Not a single person mentioned the benefit of Star vs Fey for you as an example, which is significant given your to-hit issues.