Blaster bard - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Blaster bard

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
katrick
Apr 17, 2008 13:22:01 Hello all. I have been further planning out my greyruins Bard, and i have a wonderful plan which is complex but achievable. my main concern is spell selection and timing, all comments welcome(including laughter).

We have already started and are almost 5th, we all chose something different and fun, most of which are not suited to the dungeon crawl type mod that greyruins is, though we are well versed and competent players so it shouldn't be too bad.(though two have already died by crits)

We have a Kobold Sorc 4th 6 str high cha etc, A human Sorc Enchantress Spell focus etc, a Farcher, str bow, weapon spec etc, a Pal 2/Sorc 2 self buffer two handed, an unknown(not a cleric) and me the gnome bard.

The kobold is dragonwrought/blood whichever, both other sorc's have the burn a slot to stop damage alternate class feature, and we are all fourth.

So my gnome is:
6 str
16 dex
16 con
10 int
8 wis
16 cha

1 bard Xtra Music
2 bard, inspirational boost, Acc. Move
3 bard, Meldic Casting, joyful noise
4 bard, CMW, whirling blade; cha 17
5 bard, focusing chant, soundburst(sonic weapon 11th)
6 bard, Lyric Spell
7 Lyric Thaumaturge,mirror image,CSW,confusion
8 LT, Captivating melody(bonus), dissonant chant; cha 18
9 LT, Xtra music,;(bonus Wiz,Lsr Sonic Orb,Scorching Ray)
10 LT, blink, CCW,FoM
11 LT, dim door; Sonic might
12 Sublime Chord, Xtra music,(wiz or bard) orb of force, Grt Invis, shout,Mass CLW

13 Sublime Chord, Song of arcane power
14 Sublime Chord
15 Sublime Chord Xtra Music

I'm really the only healer hence all the cure spells and sonic might only works with sonic spells hence swapping sonic weapon for soundburst at 11th or whichever level is closest. But i'm still wondering if i should take Sublime at 11th and eventually get 7th level spells(at 15th which may not happen), it means the big power up hits at 11th or 12th, but i'll miss out on doubling the damage on sonics(pretty much the only bard damaging spells)

Sub at 11th gives me 3,6,6,4,5,2 slots with a +4 cloak and lyrics
at 12th i get an extra 4th
anywhose suggestions
katrick
#2
timlagor
Apr 17, 2008 16:56:13 You should probably take Harmonic Chorus but without Wizard or Cleric that's not so definite as it might be.

I wouldn't think turning yourself into a wannabe Sorceror would be helpful with 2 already in the party.

Bards aren't exactly known for their damage output...
#3
katrick
Apr 17, 2008 22:25:56 So maybe, swift Fly instead of (Soundburst)
Charm monster (dissonant chant)
Bears endurance(scorching ray)
take Sublime at 11th
Stoneskin(orb of force)
Lsr globe(shout)

At the mo, i keep getting dragged into melee as a flanker(longspear) and i would like to go dodge titan fighting(Eternal shield wand,fight def, aid another sing etc), but would delaying the spell progression even by one fighter level seriously hurt our healing?
katrick
#4
umiskatonic
Apr 18, 2008 3:45:19 Bards can use CLW wands, etc. Don't feel like you need all of these on your spell list.

Also, Insignia of Healing is a bard spell too, don't overlook it.
#5
sparkle
Apr 18, 2008 7:56:10 You need one more spell - bladeweave! It is a 2nd level bard spell and is illusion to boot (gnomes get a +1 to DC). Basically, if you hit an opponent you can use bladeweave as a swift action to daze them or stun them (don't have the books at work). PLUS, since you are a bard you get a whip - a 15 reach weapon. You just need to hit them, not damage them if I remember the spell correctly.

Pull out the whip, a reach weapon, hit the bad guy and them smack them with bladeweave.

The only issue is the need for weapon finesse to avoid that -2 str penalty. I have also seen some cheese where a player used the whip to try and trip (a touch attack), then when they hit cast bladeweave, usually lose the opposed strength check as a Gnome with low strength, simply drop the weapon to avoid the counter trip and go on to other actions like spells or singing or using a longspear.
#6
katrick
Apr 18, 2008 8:52:53 yeah i've got a whip, it's better with disarm, if you disarm a non melee weapon they cop a -4, which counteracts the +4 they get for being larger, but they can only add Bab and str, whereas i can add size, song, spells, Mwk, etc. and i have the least crystal of safety +2 on the return disarm.

if you disarm a clerics holy symbol they are pretty well screwed casting wise(same Bab low str)
with inspirational boost the +2 offsets the str.

big thanks for the heads up on insig i haven't re-checked every book, i downloaded a bard spell list and insig is not on it, maybe i should check PH2 etc...
Gota wand of Clw don't really want to fork out for CMW though,everything else is nonc,

Had a thought today at work, against a caster, cast silence on the ground, then joyful noise and walk in with the longspear keeping them in the silence but me and my allies in the joyful noise.So we get the song and can cast etc, but the BG don't. Also Invis sphere with Zone of silence, walk through the entire dungeon unseen and unheard whilst still hearing the song and casting.
Decided i would try and take only spells that the Sorc's cant like bard specific situational spells then if they dont happen i still have cures.
katrick
#7
umiskatonic
Apr 18, 2008 10:10:35 I play with a fantastic support bard, and with just three spells, he can change an entire mod.

Phantom Steed = long-term travel for everyone.
Sculpt Sound + Invis Sphere = whole party is now stealthy
#8
timlagor
Apr 18, 2008 11:29:15 Bards should not be doing in-combat healing routinely.
#9
katrick
Apr 22, 2008 0:42:29 that remark sounds classist, tim??
katrick
#10
magebeast
Apr 22, 2008 9:07:40
that remark sounds classist, tim??
katrick

No it's just that they're not terribly good at it and they have a number of better, more unique 3rd level spells to pick amongst.
#11
timlagor
Apr 22, 2008 13:39:05 Bards don't get a lot of spells/day.
They also don't get the spell levels as quickly.

This means that once out of the 'baby levels' a bard can't reasonably expect to 'keep up'. Bards also have a lot of good buffing things they can do that will generally be a better use of their time.
Throwing an Insignia occasionally can be a very good use of an action but you shouldn't be spending more than one action/combat on healing on average. Often your buffing will make things die fast enough that the healing can be done after combat.

If you have a party that demands in-combat healing and you're it then the rest of the party should be changing their tactics.
Sometimes it's better to let the hurt guy retreat while you stick to helping those who are still up to kill the enemy.

I don't really know how Lyric Thaums work but I'm pretty sure they don't suddenly become outstanding healers.

[of course I'm not counting the Temp Hp from Imspire Greatness as a move action as healing for the straight bards out there]

EDIT: that said if you're already doing it and it works more power to you
#12
magebeast
Apr 22, 2008 15:58:05
I don't really know how Lyric Thaums work but I'm pretty sure they don't suddenly become outstanding healers.

You are correct.
#13
katrick
Apr 29, 2008 12:14:27 as a Lyric Thaum you get extra slots, with Lyric spell(feat) you burn songs at spell level +1, as a sublime chord you get extra slots, so around 11th when a normal bard is just getting their second/first CCW, this build could have 6 or 7, or 4 or 5 CLW mass or a heal or 3.
Practically Sorc slots with Cures on your list, as well as the total freedom to choose whatever whenever, the party mix and situational demands make it more likely, that in round 3 i would be healing,
Rd1 sing,inspirational boost, take up flank
rd2 cast shield from eternal wand, ensure flank etc..
rd3 cast a curative, move etc

There are three other sorc's with buffs, attacks and one is an enchantress, so there's not alot of point the bard(only curing caster should waste time on haste or displace when he is the front/flank, and the other sorc's have already cast them) now UMD for barkskins etc yes, that was my 2nd train of thought take spells that our whole party is missing.
At the mo,this would have worked fine, but due to new info this bard will likely never reach 6th, so he'll be taking a level of Fighter and Titan Fighting, and being a singing flank until healing is necessary(in the ADP) i'll have a cleric.
katrick

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 katrick Apr 17, 2008 13:22:01	Hello all. I have been further planning out my greyruins Bard, and i have a wonderful plan which is complex but achievable. my main concern is spell selection and timing, all comments welcome(including laughter). We have already started and are almost 5th, we all chose something different and fun, most of which are not suited to the dungeon crawl type mod that greyruins is, though we are well versed and competent players so it shouldn't be too bad.(though two have already died by crits) We have a Kobold Sorc 4th 6 str high cha etc, A human Sorc Enchantress Spell focus etc, a Farcher, str bow, weapon spec etc, a Pal 2/Sorc 2 self buffer two handed, an unknown(not a cleric) and me the gnome bard. The kobold is dragonwrought/blood whichever, both other sorc's have the burn a slot to stop damage alternate class feature, and we are all fourth. So my gnome is: 6 str 16 dex 16 con 10 int 8 wis 16 cha 1 bard Xtra Music 2 bard, inspirational boost, Acc. Move 3 bard, Meldic Casting, joyful noise 4 bard, CMW, whirling blade; cha 17 5 bard, focusing chant, soundburst(sonic weapon 11th) 6 bard, Lyric Spell 7 Lyric Thaumaturge,mirror image,CSW,confusion 8 LT, Captivating melody(bonus), dissonant chant; cha 18 9 LT, Xtra music,;(bonus Wiz,Lsr Sonic Orb,Scorching Ray) 10 LT, blink, CCW,FoM 11 LT, dim door; Sonic might 12 Sublime Chord, Xtra music,(wiz or bard) orb of force, Grt Invis, shout,Mass CLW 13 Sublime Chord, Song of arcane power 14 Sublime Chord 15 Sublime Chord Xtra Music I'm really the only healer hence all the cure spells and sonic might only works with sonic spells hence swapping sonic weapon for soundburst at 11th or whichever level is closest. But i'm still wondering if i should take Sublime at 11th and eventually get 7th level spells(at 15th which may not happen), it means the big power up hits at 11th or 12th, but i'll miss out on doubling the damage on sonics(pretty much the only bard damaging spells) Sub at 11th gives me 3,6,6,4,5,2 slots with a +4 cloak and lyrics at 12th i get an extra 4th anywhose suggestions katrick
#2 timlagor Apr 17, 2008 16:56:13	You should probably take Harmonic Chorus but without Wizard or Cleric that's not so definite as it might be. I wouldn't think turning yourself into a wannabe Sorceror would be helpful with 2 already in the party. Bards aren't exactly known for their damage output...
#3 katrick Apr 17, 2008 22:25:56	So maybe, swift Fly instead of (Soundburst) Charm monster (dissonant chant) Bears endurance(scorching ray) take Sublime at 11th Stoneskin(orb of force) Lsr globe(shout) At the mo, i keep getting dragged into melee as a flanker(longspear) and i would like to go dodge titan fighting(Eternal shield wand,fight def, aid another sing etc), but would delaying the spell progression even by one fighter level seriously hurt our healing? katrick
#4 umiskatonic Apr 18, 2008 3:45:19	Bards can use CLW wands, etc. Don't feel like you need all of these on your spell list. Also, Insignia of Healing is a bard spell too, don't overlook it.
#5 sparkle Apr 18, 2008 7:56:10	You need one more spell - bladeweave! It is a 2nd level bard spell and is illusion to boot (gnomes get a +1 to DC). Basically, if you hit an opponent you can use bladeweave as a swift action to daze them or stun them (don't have the books at work). PLUS, since you are a bard you get a whip - a 15 reach weapon. You just need to hit them, not damage them if I remember the spell correctly. Pull out the whip, a reach weapon, hit the bad guy and them smack them with bladeweave. The only issue is the need for weapon finesse to avoid that -2 str penalty. I have also seen some cheese where a player used the whip to try and trip (a touch attack), then when they hit cast bladeweave, usually lose the opposed strength check as a Gnome with low strength, simply drop the weapon to avoid the counter trip and go on to other actions like spells or singing or using a longspear.
#6 katrick Apr 18, 2008 8:52:53	yeah i've got a whip, it's better with disarm, if you disarm a non melee weapon they cop a -4, which counteracts the +4 they get for being larger, but they can only add Bab and str, whereas i can add size, song, spells, Mwk, etc. and i have the least crystal of safety +2 on the return disarm. if you disarm a clerics holy symbol they are pretty well screwed casting wise(same Bab low str) with inspirational boost the +2 offsets the str. big thanks for the heads up on insig i haven't re-checked every book, i downloaded a bard spell list and insig is not on it, maybe i should check PH2 etc... Gota wand of Clw don't really want to fork out for CMW though,everything else is nonc, Had a thought today at work, against a caster, cast silence on the ground, then joyful noise and walk in with the longspear keeping them in the silence but me and my allies in the joyful noise.So we get the song and can cast etc, but the BG don't. Also Invis sphere with Zone of silence, walk through the entire dungeon unseen and unheard whilst still hearing the song and casting. Decided i would try and take only spells that the Sorc's cant like bard specific situational spells then if they dont happen i still have cures. katrick
#7 umiskatonic Apr 18, 2008 10:10:35	I play with a fantastic support bard, and with just three spells, he can change an entire mod. Phantom Steed = long-term travel for everyone. Sculpt Sound + Invis Sphere = whole party is now stealthy
#8 timlagor Apr 18, 2008 11:29:15	Bards should not be doing in-combat healing routinely.
#9 katrick Apr 22, 2008 0:42:29	that remark sounds classist, tim?? katrick
#10 magebeast Apr 22, 2008 9:07:40	that remark sounds classist, tim?? katrick No it's just that they're not terribly good at it and they have a number of better, more unique 3rd level spells to pick amongst.
#11 timlagor Apr 22, 2008 13:39:05	Bards don't get a lot of spells/day. They also don't get the spell levels as quickly. This means that once out of the 'baby levels' a bard can't reasonably expect to 'keep up'. Bards also have a lot of good buffing things they can do that will generally be a better use of their time. Throwing an Insignia occasionally can be a very good use of an action but you shouldn't be spending more than one action/combat on healing on average. Often your buffing will make things die fast enough that the healing can be done after combat. If you have a party that demands in-combat healing and you're it then the rest of the party should be changing their tactics. Sometimes it's better to let the hurt guy retreat while you stick to helping those who are still up to kill the enemy. I don't really know how Lyric Thaums work but I'm pretty sure they don't suddenly become outstanding healers. [of course I'm not counting the Temp Hp from Imspire Greatness as a move action as healing for the straight bards out there] EDIT: that said if you're already doing it and it works more power to you
#12 magebeast Apr 22, 2008 15:58:05	I don't really know how Lyric Thaums work but I'm pretty sure they don't suddenly become outstanding healers. You are correct.
#13 katrick Apr 29, 2008 12:14:27	as a Lyric Thaum you get extra slots, with Lyric spell(feat) you burn songs at spell level +1, as a sublime chord you get extra slots, so around 11th when a normal bard is just getting their second/first CCW, this build could have 6 or 7, or 4 or 5 CLW mass or a heal or 3. Practically Sorc slots with Cures on your list, as well as the total freedom to choose whatever whenever, the party mix and situational demands make it more likely, that in round 3 i would be healing, Rd1 sing,inspirational boost, take up flank rd2 cast shield from eternal wand, ensure flank etc.. rd3 cast a curative, move etc There are three other sorc's with buffs, attacks and one is an enchantress, so there's not alot of point the bard(only curing caster should waste time on haste or displace when he is the front/flank, and the other sorc's have already cast them) now UMD for barkskins etc yes, that was my 2nd train of thought take spells that our whole party is missing. At the mo,this would have worked fine, but due to new info this bard will likely never reach 6th, so he'll be taking a level of Fighter and Titan Fighting, and being a singing flank until healing is necessary(in the ADP) i'll have a cleric. katrick