Dire Lion Mount - Advice please - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dire Lion Mount - Advice please

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
benk
Apr 21, 2008 8:23:27 Morning all.

My wife has a LG Paladin 8 that just made 9 unexpectedly (My, these adaptables give a lot of XP ;). I need to level her up, and I'm looking for a Feat, particularly to boost her Dire Lion Paladin's Mount (pretty Kitty!). Any suggestions would be welcome.

Build, for info/background.
STR 14, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 20.
Key gear/style: Bastard Swd and Shield, Fullplate.
Feats: Exotic Weap Prof Bastard Swd, Weap Focus Bastard Swd, Mounted Combat, Sacred Healing.

Ben Kemp
Sigs are for wimps.
this
_metz_
Apr 21, 2008 9:24:25
Morning all.

My wife has a LG Paladin 8 that just made 9 unexpectedly (My, these adaptables give a lot of XP ;). I need to level her up, and I'm looking for a Feat, particularly to boost her Dire Lion Paladin's Mount (pretty Kitty!). Any suggestions would be welcome.

Build, for info/background.
STR 14, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 20.
Key gear/style: Bastard Swd and Shield, Fullplate.
Feats: Exotic Weap Prof Bastard Swd, Weap Focus Bastard Swd, Mounted Combat, Sacred Healing.

Ben Kemp
Sigs are for wimps.

Hey Ben, The Metcalfe here:

Try looking at this thread, it has some great info on mounted characters

Yay for Tyfannii and Amber!
#3
kjenks
Apr 21, 2008 11:25:01 Since her Dire Lion already has Dex 15 and the Run feat, think about selecting the Fleet of Foot feat from Complete Warrior.

===
Benefit: When running or charging, you can make a single direction change of 90 degrees or less. You can’t use this feat in medium or heavy armor, or if you’re carrying a medium or heavier load. If you are charging, you must move in a straight line for 10 feet after the turn to maintain the charge.
===

When kitty has this feat, the rider can make some unusual charge attacks. Of course, those work best with a lance attack and the Spirited Charge feat.

Another good feat for kitty is Improved Natural Attack (Claw). It's possible that your DM will allow this to also improve the Rake damage.

Multiattack or Weapon Focus (Bite) would also be nice since hitting with the bite enables Improved Grab and Rake. (Using Improved Grab may be problematic, rule-wise, if she's riding kitty because the grapple and ride rules, while complex individually, become hopelessly muddled when mixed.)
#4
magebeast
Apr 21, 2008 12:35:52 I was going to suggest that it might be problematic, but then I went and looked at encumbrance for a dire tiger and saw it is nearly 1000 lbs.
#5
umiskatonic
Apr 21, 2008 14:16:42 Step one: full plate barding. You won't have trouble with the weight.

Step two: shove your ride check up there, because you can negate attacks on the mount.

Step three: Really think about using a lance while mounted. Don't worry, there will be plenty of places you can't bring a dire lion, so the bastard sword isn't a waste.

I wouldn't worry about the corners while running, just remind everyone else to get out of your way.

Also, take a good hard look at the jump rules, and what a dire lion can get away with. I think you might be able to jump a 5ft character most of the time. If your mount has gotten faster, remember to factor that in as well.
#6
Jay_Ibero_911
Apr 21, 2008 14:50:59
Step one: full plate barding. You won't have trouble with the weight.

Step two: shove your ride check up there, because you can negate attacks on the mount.

Step three: Really think about using a lance while mounted. Don't worry, there will be plenty of places you can't bring a dire lion, so the bastard sword isn't a waste.

I wouldn't worry about the corners while running, just remind everyone else to get out of your way.

Also, take a good hard look at the jump rules, and what a dire lion can get away with. I think you might be able to jump a 5ft character most of the time. If your mount has gotten faster, remember to factor that in as well.

Just remember that while the mount may be capable of making that jump, if you can't match the DC with your ride skill you fall off.
#7
magebeast
Apr 21, 2008 16:44:48
Step one: full plate barding. You won't have trouble with the weight.

Full Plate barding is still heavy armor though, right? So the movement speed will still be reduced.
#8
mwao_dup
Apr 21, 2008 16:57:14
Step one: full plate barding. You won't have trouble with the weight.

You will have problems with Table Variation - Dire Lions shouldn't be proficient in armor - wearing Full Plate means huge penalties to attacks for the Lion...(not a particularly big issue for horses...)

Mithral Chain Shirt is a much better way to go - there's no penalty, so no need to worry about non-proficiency...
#9
kjenks
Apr 21, 2008 18:26:23 Don't bother with barding. At your level, beg your wizard buddy for a Mage Armor (or Greater Mage Armor, even). It helps to bring a Pearl of Power to the table.
#10
umiskatonic
Apr 22, 2008 11:48:16 My experience is that you want armor on your mount, so that you don't have opponents decide that the best way to be rid of you is to eliminate your ride.

Hmm. I'd argue that a run of the mill dire lion would have trouble with heavy armor, but that a paladin's mount WOULD be trained for war. It's part of the package. That's why paladin's mounts get all those other nifty abilities, they are better than a normal creature.

But yes, there could be table variation on this.

You'll have to look REALLY carefully at the wording of favors and such, but you may eventually get the opportunity to buy +1 mithril chain shirt barding. Do so immediately, and upgrade whenever you can afford to.
#11
timlagor
Apr 22, 2008 13:30:48 Being trained for war does not necessarily make you proficient with armour (even if you can work out what trained for war means)

The relevant passage is (from memory) "... are not proficient unless trained for war" -that doesn't say anything about animals that are trained for war.

oh and EWP BS is always a waste :P

Extra Smite looks to be an obvious Feat choice and I'd retrain Sacred Healing to Divine Might myself.
#12
Jay_Ibero_911
Apr 24, 2008 19:08:45 As far as the trained for war and armor proficiency bit, as a Paladin Special Mount, the dire lion would have greater than animal intelligence, meaning it is no longer subject to being trained as such. It would need to take the armor proficiency feats just like anyone else.
#13
lupo
Apr 28, 2008 16:44:41
Morning all.

My wife has a LG Paladin 8 that just made 9 unexpectedly (My, these adaptables give a lot of XP ;). I need to level her up, and I'm looking for a Feat, particularly to boost her Dire Lion Paladin's Mount (pretty Kitty!). Any suggestions would be welcome.

Build, for info/background.
STR 14, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 20.
Key gear/style: Bastard Swd and Shield, Fullplate.
Feats: Exotic Weap Prof Bastard Swd, Weap Focus Bastard Swd, Mounted Combat, Sacred Healing.

Ben Kemp
Sigs are for wimps.

try power attack for the kitty, i have no experience with paladin mounts, but my druid's tiger kitty almost never has a problem HITTING but sometimes the amount of damage is to low - and now it will go full power attack all day long, - magic fang [greater], nature's favour and a bard or cleric in the party help a lot :-)

ciao

martin m.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 benk Apr 21, 2008 8:23:27	Morning all. My wife has a LG Paladin 8 that just made 9 unexpectedly (My, these adaptables give a lot of XP ;). I need to level her up, and I'm looking for a Feat, particularly to boost her Dire Lion Paladin's Mount (pretty Kitty!). Any suggestions would be welcome. Build, for info/background. STR 14, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 20. Key gear/style: Bastard Swd and Shield, Fullplate. Feats: Exotic Weap Prof Bastard Swd, Weap Focus Bastard Swd, Mounted Combat, Sacred Healing. Ben Kemp Sigs are for wimps.
this _metz_ Apr 21, 2008 9:24:25	Morning all. My wife has a LG Paladin 8 that just made 9 unexpectedly (My, these adaptables give a lot of XP ;). I need to level her up, and I'm looking for a Feat, particularly to boost her Dire Lion Paladin's Mount (pretty Kitty!). Any suggestions would be welcome. Build, for info/background. STR 14, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 20. Key gear/style: Bastard Swd and Shield, Fullplate. Feats: Exotic Weap Prof Bastard Swd, Weap Focus Bastard Swd, Mounted Combat, Sacred Healing. Ben Kemp Sigs are for wimps. Hey Ben, The Metcalfe here: Try looking at this thread, it has some great info on mounted characters Yay for Tyfannii and Amber!
#3 kjenks Apr 21, 2008 11:25:01	Since her Dire Lion already has Dex 15 and the Run feat, think about selecting the Fleet of Foot feat from Complete Warrior. === Benefit: When running or charging, you can make a single direction change of 90 degrees or less. You can’t use this feat in medium or heavy armor, or if you’re carrying a medium or heavier load. If you are charging, you must move in a straight line for 10 feet after the turn to maintain the charge. === When kitty has this feat, the rider can make some unusual charge attacks. Of course, those work best with a lance attack and the Spirited Charge feat. Another good feat for kitty is Improved Natural Attack (Claw). It's possible that your DM will allow this to also improve the Rake damage. Multiattack or Weapon Focus (Bite) would also be nice since hitting with the bite enables Improved Grab and Rake. (Using Improved Grab may be problematic, rule-wise, if she's riding kitty because the grapple and ride rules, while complex individually, become hopelessly muddled when mixed.)
#4 magebeast Apr 21, 2008 12:35:52	I was going to suggest that it might be problematic, but then I went and looked at encumbrance for a dire tiger and saw it is nearly 1000 lbs.
#5 umiskatonic Apr 21, 2008 14:16:42	Step one: full plate barding. You won't have trouble with the weight. Step two: shove your ride check up there, because you can negate attacks on the mount. Step three: Really think about using a lance while mounted. Don't worry, there will be plenty of places you can't bring a dire lion, so the bastard sword isn't a waste. I wouldn't worry about the corners while running, just remind everyone else to get out of your way. Also, take a good hard look at the jump rules, and what a dire lion can get away with. I think you might be able to jump a 5ft character most of the time. If your mount has gotten faster, remember to factor that in as well.
#6 Jay_Ibero_911 Apr 21, 2008 14:50:59	Step one: full plate barding. You won't have trouble with the weight. Step two: shove your ride check up there, because you can negate attacks on the mount. Step three: Really think about using a lance while mounted. Don't worry, there will be plenty of places you can't bring a dire lion, so the bastard sword isn't a waste. I wouldn't worry about the corners while running, just remind everyone else to get out of your way. Also, take a good hard look at the jump rules, and what a dire lion can get away with. I think you might be able to jump a 5ft character most of the time. If your mount has gotten faster, remember to factor that in as well. Just remember that while the mount may be capable of making that jump, if you can't match the DC with your ride skill you fall off.
#7 magebeast Apr 21, 2008 16:44:48	Step one: full plate barding. You won't have trouble with the weight. Full Plate barding is still heavy armor though, right? So the movement speed will still be reduced.
#8 mwao_dup Apr 21, 2008 16:57:14	Step one: full plate barding. You won't have trouble with the weight. You will have problems with Table Variation - Dire Lions shouldn't be proficient in armor - wearing Full Plate means huge penalties to attacks for the Lion...(not a particularly big issue for horses...) Mithral Chain Shirt is a much better way to go - there's no penalty, so no need to worry about non-proficiency...
#9 kjenks Apr 21, 2008 18:26:23	Don't bother with barding. At your level, beg your wizard buddy for a Mage Armor (or Greater Mage Armor, even). It helps to bring a Pearl of Power to the table.
#10 umiskatonic Apr 22, 2008 11:48:16	My experience is that you want armor on your mount, so that you don't have opponents decide that the best way to be rid of you is to eliminate your ride. Hmm. I'd argue that a run of the mill dire lion would have trouble with heavy armor, but that a paladin's mount WOULD be trained for war. It's part of the package. That's why paladin's mounts get all those other nifty abilities, they are better than a normal creature. But yes, there could be table variation on this. You'll have to look REALLY carefully at the wording of favors and such, but you may eventually get the opportunity to buy +1 mithril chain shirt barding. Do so immediately, and upgrade whenever you can afford to.
#11 timlagor Apr 22, 2008 13:30:48	Being trained for war does not necessarily make you proficient with armour (even if you can work out what trained for war means) The relevant passage is (from memory) "... are not proficient unless trained for war" -that doesn't say anything about animals that are trained for war. oh and EWP BS is always a waste :P Extra Smite looks to be an obvious Feat choice and I'd retrain Sacred Healing to Divine Might myself.
#12 Jay_Ibero_911 Apr 24, 2008 19:08:45	As far as the trained for war and armor proficiency bit, as a Paladin Special Mount, the dire lion would have greater than animal intelligence, meaning it is no longer subject to being trained as such. It would need to take the armor proficiency feats just like anyone else.
#13 lupo Apr 28, 2008 16:44:41	Morning all. My wife has a LG Paladin 8 that just made 9 unexpectedly (My, these adaptables give a lot of XP ;). I need to level her up, and I'm looking for a Feat, particularly to boost her Dire Lion Paladin's Mount (pretty Kitty!). Any suggestions would be welcome. Build, for info/background. STR 14, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 20. Key gear/style: Bastard Swd and Shield, Fullplate. Feats: Exotic Weap Prof Bastard Swd, Weap Focus Bastard Swd, Mounted Combat, Sacred Healing. Ben Kemp Sigs are for wimps. try power attack for the kitty, i have no experience with paladin mounts, but my druid's tiger kitty almost never has a problem HITTING but sometimes the amount of damage is to low - and now it will go full power attack all day long, - magic fang [greater], nature's favour and a bard or cleric in the party help a lot :-) ciao martin m.