Acid Splash
Detect Magic
Disrupt Undead
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
—— 1st-Level Spells ——
Benign Transposition
Feather Fall
Grease
Magic Missile
Ray of Enfeeblement
—— 2nd-Level Spells ——
False Life
Glitterdust
Resist Energy
See Invisibility
(Scorching Ray?)
—— 3rd-Level Spells ——
Fireball
Fly
Haste
(probable 11th level spell of Heroism)
—— 4th-Level Spells ——
Dimension Door
Orb of Force
(haven't decided)
—— 5th-Level Spells ——
Wall of Force
(haven't decided)
Human Sorcerer 6/Rua 3/Fatespinner 2
Str 8
dex 14 (+2 gloves, for the AC, to hit, and initiative)
con 16 (+2 amulet)
int 10
wis 8
cha 24 (2 bumps, +4 cloak)
feats: empower spell, energy sub(acid),sculpt spell, sudden maximize, and the feat that lets me metamagic without extending the casting time whose name I have suddenly forgotten
I'm thinking of picking up Scorching Ray as my 2nd level spell. I'm wondering if you guys think it would be worth having a spell with more dice than orb of force for monsters that don't have SR and lack resistance to both fire and acid (energy sub). If I'm really feeling ballsy I can throw empowered scorching rays instead of orbs of force at monsters. I don't have guided shot but I'm finding myself hitting a lot more vs touch attacks than I used to. Due to the way my sorcerer multiclassed I have actually have one MORE BAB than a straight classed spell caster and probably 2 or 3 more than your average multiclass wizard. +8 before any buffs or anything and due to my party composition I'm often rocking a +3 sacred bonus from recitation (same deity), and I'll have heroism up most of the time. Typically I pop mirror images with split magic missiles. If not, thoughts on good 2nd level spells? I really wanted a good buff I could pass around, I thought about blur but I was hoping for a 10/level or hour/level spell because rods of extend are cheap and I can always buy more.
I intend to swap out haste or fly for greater magic weapon and ray of enfeeblement for true strike (intended to be quickened) through retraining, the level 3 swap depending on how things are in the local group when I hit 12. Picking up heroism because with an extend rod it'll last most of a crawl, and I can get one or two other folks with it. The saves and the to hit are sooooo valuable and the bonus to concentration or spellcraft is nothing to sneeze at either.
Thinkin' about Solid Fog for my new fourth. Wish I had Ruin Delvers Fortune (are you tired of hearing that yet?) but it's not an option. I have some solid crowd funneling in wall of force but I feel like maybe they serve different purposes? I have assay but not all that many spells to be using it with. I do intend to pick up disintegrate at 6th (mostly for its utility purposes) but I guess that assay would make it easier to use it offensively.
As for my fifth level spells, I could pick up mass fly but I actually run with a couple wizards. I really want baleful polymorph because I love the spell but at the same time I recognize that it's not really going to work out all that often given that fort saves are typically the best saves. Save or screwed is only fun if it works. Maybe cloudkill? TK is an okay spell, but I don't have chained GMW or an easy way to lug a golf bag of weapons around. Teleport is also an option, but it overlaps with d-door. I'm also leery of the 6% chance for things to go wrong!
if I went with teleport I'd probably retrain at this level to pick up an additional new fourth level spell and swap out ray of enfeeblement for true strike just to save cash.
At 12th level pick up Energy Admixture. Yes, you could pick up Quicken, but it eats the same spell slot to Quicken a Scorching Ray as it does to Admixture one. The Admixtured Scorching Ray does double damage against things that don't resist anyway.
4th level should then be Assay SR to help stick the Scorching Ray. While Solid Fog or Evard's would be nice, you've already got a good deal of battlefield control, and...
My recommendation for a 5th level spell (if you run with a couple of wizards) is Spiritwall. It fits with what you're already doing (battlefield control), and it goes where Wall of Force doesn't. True, it won't necessarily stop creatures from approaching, but it can block line of effect and line of sight in any location. You can shrink a bubble to any size - as small as a single 5-ft square - which keeps things from getting messy. Once you start running into multiple flying opponents with breath weapons and spellcasting, Wall of Force isn't going to cut it.
Otherwise, if you veer away from Scorching Ray, both Knock and Invisibility are good 2nd level spell options for the versatility they offer. Wizards don't always prepare Knock and rarely have enough Invisibility to help an entire party bypass a situation.
In that case, Solid Fog or Evard's are good for 4th, and Mass Fly is good for 5th - and the wizards can just prep something else, unless you think you'd get bored with your first action every combat being against ground-bound critters used simply to cast Mass Fly.
If you head deeper toward battlefield control, I recommend picking up Improved Initiative.
I pretty much like being the hammer looking for the nail. I don't want to have the perfect spell for every situation, but I'm working on having A spell for every situation. I always have a ton of spells left when we rest or the mod is over, which is why I'm branching into buffing a little bit. The energy admixture idea is interesting, but I also want the option of quickening true strikes, see invis, and maybe hastes if I ever get to 14.
I'm leaning towards Mass Fly for my 5th, retrain to get true strike and GMW now. I'll hope for Ruin Delver's Fortune access before I hit 12 when I can swap it in for free. After discussing it with my wizard friend I am going Knock, which means that I will probably not see any locked doors for a while and will run into a spate of things with super low touch ACs, no SR, and only acid or fire resistance, not both. Such is life.
Still undecided on four but we shall see.
But anyway, congratulations on your sorcerer's new level
I'm gratified by Lomiat's advocacy of Spiritwall - when I first took it with Azi, everyone and their brother told me it was a dumb idea and I should take Wall of Force instead, but it seems to be more popular these days.That said, given you already have Wall of Force, a second top-tier wall spell may not be the best way to go. Spiritwall does have the (multi-target, SR:no) fear effect though, and if you regularly adventure with a cleric (as suggested by Recitation), your party will be immune. You don't currently seem to have a multi-target save-or-lose other than sculpted glitterdust (which is falling behind on the save-DC curve by this level).
Telekinesis is a good spell even without the Swordz of Doom. GMW up some Large crossbow bolts (have a wizzie stick Flame Arrow on them if you like) and you have a nice CL*(1d6+3) damage spell with no save and no SR, IF you can hit their AC and DR isn't an issue. It's good in different circumstances to the more usual ranged-touch-attack spells, but when it's good, it's very good. The grapple, disarm, and distance-manipulation options make it fairly versatile too.
Mass Fly is very nice, though. I like it better on a sorcerer than on a wizard: it's fairly common to want it several times in a day, and being able to spam it can be very handy in some dungeons.
Azrien loves Teleport, but Azi sees the chances for weirdness as a good thing ;) Note that Dimension Door plays extremely poorly with immediate-action spells, so if you get Ruin Delver's Fortune access you may want to consider a retrain or swap there.
I think you would get good use out of Solid Fog or Sculpted Evards. Solid Fog is better on flying foes or really large creatures; Evard's is more devastating if you find good targets (Medium or smaller, not full BAB). Both of them work quite differently to Wall of Force. I know Brad's sorcerer Olivia has had all three for quite a while, and she doesn't seem to find any of them redundant.
Heroism is a nice L3 buff spell. Azi tends to spam Phantom Steeds and Greater Magic Weapon with her L3 slots, but if you have slots to spare, Heroism is a good way to use them.
If I was in your situation I don't think I'd take True Strike. As far as I can tell, if you swap out Ray of Enfeeblement for it, you'd only be using it to stick empowered orbs of force. Once you pick up Quicken, I suspect you'll usually have better things to do with your swift action than ensuring your orbs of force hit (except perhaps in advanced-dread-wraith fights, if the rest of your party doesn't have good options there).
Enjoy your sorcerer :D
As for swapping in true strike - I recognize that ray of enfeeblement and grease are good spells. However, I never seem to find myself using them. I suspect that it is more a function of some tactical problem on my end. I'll be picking up disintegrate at 12, which I will be using in combat despite its weaknesses.
As far as the bolts go, do you spend a turn dumping them on the floor or what?
Woah! I hadn't recently read the dim door provision about not being able to do anything till your next turn - that's rough! I knew it ended your turn, but I had not fully thought through its implications. Thanks for that tidbit. I guess this means you can't feather fall after a dim door either!
That is correct. I had to point this out to some people who thought their wizards could use my teleport+featherfall tactic with d-door and save the L5 slot ;)
As for swapping in true strike - I recognize that ray of enfeeblement and grease are good spells. However, I never seem to find myself using them. I suspect that it is more a function of some tactical problem on my end. I'll be picking up disintegrate at 12, which I will be using in combat despite its weaknesses.
*nods* You may find yourself using Grease more once you can Quicken it, that's all. But sure, if you like the look of True Strike, definitely take it and let us know how it goes
Azi didn't want it because most of her ranged-touch-attack spells are splashy sprays of LOTS of magical bolts (so pretty!), so adding +20 to hit on one of them is not very worthwhile, but if you're sticking to single-shot spells it could be good.As far as the bolts go, do you spend a turn dumping them on the floor or what?
Every GM I've seen Olivia play with (including myself) has let her toss them out of the quiver. You can draw them as a free action multiple times per round, normally, so it can't be that complicated a process to extract them from the quiver - and Telekinesis is pretty generous in its targeting, you can pick up CL random objects within 10ft of each other and throw them all at a single target.
That said, Azi doesn't have Telekinesis (although her cohort does), so solbergb probably has a much better GM sample size for this question than I do.
Re: Dim Door and Featherfall - You can, in fact, cast the Featherfall *before* the Dim Door and let the trick work the same way.
Re: Telekinesis - It's just dirty... Really. Very dirty. When it works, it's as much damage as an arcane caster can do. When something has DR, though, it's not quite so hot.
I still think, at this point, that Mass Fly is probably the way to go. Between metamagic and Wall of Force, your sorcerer has other 5th level options, but the wizards either prep it, or they don't. And then ... they get stuck with it if it's prepped and not useful. It's not always a useful spell (but pretty often), but it is the type of spell that if someone can *always* have it available, that's good.
I don't know how Copper thinks Solid Fog is better against flyers than Evard's, unless she's refering to the 20-ft ceiling rather than the 10-ft ceiling on the effect, but it is better against really large creatures, and Solid Fog would be my recommendation for a 4th level slot.
Guided Shot may suit you better than True Strike. Removing cover penalties is typically enough to stick a ranged touch attack. Plus, it will be a 1st level swift spell, rather than a 5th level slot with a Quickened modifier.
Cheers.
Re: Dim Door and Featherfall - You can, in fact, cast the Featherfall *before* the Dim Door and let the trick work the same way.
Yes, Magebeast, I plan on replying in some detail later, but elections got in the way, and then real life did =) But for the moment, I just need to poke Lomiat, and say that if you cast featherfall before dimdoor, unless you're actually falling, you're not a legal target for featherfall.
~J
The big thing about a quickened true strike is when I really want it to hit, maybe I'm going to sudden maximize it for a guaranteed 60 points of damage, or we're in a position where I'm the only person in initiative between it and the rest of my party and if it goes next it's going to kill someone but if I hit it with a decent bit of damage it'll go down. It's an emergency thing. Quicken is also for a quickened grease, or a true seeing and glitterdust in the same round, or a fireball or maybe a haste if/when I hit 14.
Also, what about greater invis as a 4th level spell? How much would you guys estimate your enemies can see invisibly naturally/without much difficulty APL 10+?
I don't know how Copper thinks Solid Fog is better against flyers than Evard's, unless she's refering to the 20-ft ceiling rather than the 10-ft ceiling on the effect, but it is better against really large creatures, and Solid Fog would be my recommendation for a 4th level slot.
Do you think Solid Fog has to be on the ground? If so, why? It's a cylinder, but as far as I can tell, not restricted to ground level any more than Flamestrike or Fireball.
Yes, Magebeast, I plan on replying in some detail later, but elections got in the way, and then real life did =) But for the moment, I just need to poke Lomiat, and say that if you cast featherfall before dimdoor, unless you're actually falling, you're not a legal target for featherfall.
~J
Move action - jump. Immediate/swift action - featherfall. Standard action - dim door.
I had guided shot at one point - it didn't really make much difference.
The big thing about a quickened true strike is when I really want it to hit, maybe I'm going to sudden maximize it for a guaranteed 60 points of damage, or we're in a position where I'm the only person in initiative between it and the rest of my party and if it goes next it's going to kill someone but if I hit it with a decent bit of damage it'll go down. It's an emergency thing. Quicken is also for a quickened grease, or a true seeing and glitterdust in the same round, or a fireball or maybe a haste if/when I hit 14.
Also, what about greater invis as a 4th level spell? How much would you guys estimate your enemies can see invisibly naturally/without much difficulty APL 10+?
There's no doubt that Quicken is golden, especially for sorcerers. The issue is whether a Quickened True Strike is worth the spell slot.
How often can bad things See Invis at APL 10+? About 20% of the time. Generally, though, the combats where you want your escape plans and defenses in reserve are the ones where the baddies have the ability to see through invisibility. And the combats where they can't see through invisibility are generally the ones where you're not worried about your defenses.
That said, there was a nassssty combat in a year 5 IUZ mod, Playing Both Sides, in which my wizard and the party bard saved the party from a TPK by fleeing with greater invisibility. Of course, in that situation, normal invisibility would have worked, too. (We just would have hit the monster for roughly 70 or so hit points fewer damage.)
But my arcane trickster lives by his greater invis.
Really, the larger issue concerning greater invisibility at this APL is this: once you enter combat, your actions should all be directed toward killing the monsters, incapacitating them, or helping your teammates kill them. Unless you have a rogue who's likely to do a lot more damage because of greater invisibility, it's a poor spell to cast during combat. (Even my trickster won't cast it during combat. It's contingent.)
I did end up using Knock in my first mod with it, which was pretty gratifying.
I remember a mod where my sorcerer and an archer wondered off to investigate something while the other party members were trying to figure out a puzzle. When they got back the door was still shut so my sorcerer just walked up to it, cast knock and opened the door for them. Very funny.