Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tellack Mar 09, 2008 19:04:41	Hello, those of you who are reading this post. I'm currently a level 5 paladin/level 2 templar (Heironeous) 14 str 12 dex 14 con 10 int 10 wis 18 cha These are my magic items:: Amulet of Health (+2) Cloak of Charisma (+2) Ring of Protection (+1) Full Plate (+2) Heavy Steel Shield (+1) Potions of Cure Light and Moderate Longsword (+1) Feats: Improved Initiative (Want to retrain it out) Weapon Focus (Longsword) True Believer Shield Mastery (PHB2) I'm thinking of getting Leadership to have a Cleric Cohort, since my party doesn't have any healers besides an out-of-combat ranger healer :P .... I'm focusing more on AC and Hit Points, but need to do more damage in order to effectively "tank" and simply do damage. I have 2250 gold on hand and am one game away from leveling. I have a 20% weapon upgrade discount favor and one-time access to any item out of the DMG valued at 20,000 gold or less. Next level, I am thinking of getting a stat increase in WIS for 11 wis, first level spells and wands, and the Divine Sacrifice spell. Any suggestions on items to buy, feats to retrain (if not Leadership), or perhaps good prestige classes? I intend to go another level in Templar to get DR 1/ - and Weapon Spec. I'm not sure what to do afterwards..
#2 kenobi65 Mar 09, 2008 19:25:58	I've got a Paladin 6 / PT 4 of Heironeous. I just picked up Melee Weapon Mastery, which is pretty nice (+2 to attack and damage with any slashing weapon); you'll qualify for it once you get the Weapon Specialization. I took Improved Toughness, which helps with the HP situation a bit. It's hard to do a ton of damage with a one-handed weapon, esp. when you've only got a 14 Str, and nothing to boost it (I've got a 16, and Gauntlets of Ogre Power). Even so, I know that my damage output is going to pale compared to anyone with a two-handed weapon. AC is among the cheapest things to buy up, so improving your armor or shield is reasonably affordable (though not at the moment). Weapon upgrades are nice, but they aren't cheap (adding, say, flaming, will cost you 4800 with the discount). If you have access to Holy, that's probably worth saving up for.
#3 Tellack Mar 09, 2008 19:31:33	Yah, I also intend to buy Gauntlets of Ogre Power, possibly Holy to Weapon (quite expensive though). I was thinking of the Melee Weapon Mastery. A bone devil really screwed up the party in the last game. I was the only one left in melee with him and did practically no damage after my three smites :\ Everyone got feared and he went away after he had 9 HP, dropped the rest of the party/ they ran away. Also, Holy is quite nice for RP-flavor and is good anyway for a paladin.
#4 kenobi65 Mar 09, 2008 22:02:13	I was the only one left in melee with him and did practically no damage after my three smites :\ I've got much the same problem. I've got Power Attack, so at least against poorer AC opponents, I can trade out for some extra damage. I played a module today, where one of the other PCs was a bard who was consistently able to give us +4 to attack rolls (via inspire courage and haste), so I was usually able to dump 5 points or so into Power Attack. Also, Holy is quite nice for RP-flavor and is good anyway for a paladin. Don't get me wrong; I'd love to have Holy on my longsword. But, it's 16K to upgrade a +1 weapon to Holy, and I've never gotten access to Holy, anyway. Right now, I'm saving up for upgrading my armor (now +3 full plate) and shield (it's now +2, medium fortification; I have a favor that will let me upgrade it to heavy fortification when I reach 11th level).
#5 jstorrie Mar 10, 2008 3:53:45	Divine Might is a no-brainer for a character with Charisma like yours', though you'd have to retrain something for its prereq, Power Attack. Extra Smite would do you well too, since you have two different kinds of smite.
#6 evanta Mar 10, 2008 7:33:00	Retrain improved initative for power attack, retrain shield for divine might. I'll not suggest you take leadership at the moment, you need to shore up your weakness in dealing damage first. The moment you have divine might, damage should increase by a very big factor.
#7 copperwyrmling Mar 10, 2008 14:11:48	I would retrain Improved Initiative for Power Attack and see if you can get an animated shield (from the favor, if you don't have access elsewhere). Two-handed power attack is almost mandatory for doing lots of damage at high level, and it opens up Divine Might, either via a retrain or as your L9 feat. Boots of Speed would give you an extra attack if your party arcane doesn't usually cast Haste. Holy and Sacred are excellent weapon enhancements if you don't have some other way of making your weapons good-aligned (angelhelm, sacred scabbard, etc), but until you have the money for them, you should ALWAYS carry at least one oil of bless weapon and make sure you have both cold iron and silver weaponry (they don't even need to be masterwork if you're short on cash). A belt of giant strength would also be a good purchase. I would take the fourth level of pious templar for the bonus feat, as you're rather short on those. Melee Weapon Mastery is an excellent choice for a fighter bonus feat. I don't see Shield Mastery in PHB2: do you mean Shield Specialization?
#8 Tellack Mar 10, 2008 14:22:35	Angelhelm? Also, I believe Animated Shields are illegal in my region. I intend to get gauntlets of Ogre Power after retaining and such. I was thinking along the lines of PA + Divine Might, also. It will definitely help my damage. And yes, Shield Spec*, not mastery.
#9 copperwyrmling Mar 10, 2008 15:26:51	Angelhelm? It's an MIC item that makes all your melee attacks good-aligned and grants some spell-like abilities - it's a nice item if you prefer upgrades other than Holy for your weapon (and amazing for monks and TWF'ers), but you'd need to get lucky with access. In your case, I'd probably just go with Holy. Also, I believe Animated Shields are illegal in my region. ... what region are you in? I've heard of a lot of regional restrictions but that's a new one ;)
#10 _metz_ Mar 11, 2008 0:21:08	ON the holy thing, Lesser fiendslayer crystals work pretty well too...
#11 Tellack Mar 11, 2008 8:11:58	It's an MIC item that makes all your melee attacks good-aligned and grants some spell-like abilities - it's a nice item if you prefer upgrades other than Holy for your weapon (and amazing for monks and TWF'ers), but you'd need to get lucky with access. In your case, I'd probably just go with Holy. Can you give me more info on the helm, firstly its price I can't seem to find it online.
#12 Tellack Mar 11, 2008 8:14:17	... what region are you in? I've heard of a lot of regional restrictions but that's a new one ;) I'm in Keoland. Actually, the Animated Shield qualifies under suspect activity, but is not banned.
#13 Jay_Ibero_911 Mar 11, 2008 11:07:30	I'm in Keoland. Actually, the Animated Shield qualifies under suspect activity, but is not banned. Yeah, just a minor penalty on some social skills, no big deal.
#14 tetsujinoni Mar 11, 2008 13:21:23	Yeah, just a minor penalty on some social skills, no big deal. And you can wield an animated shield in the normal fashion, for when you're around people whose alarm you don't want to raise. Low profile adventurers. Who'd a thunk it, eh?
#15 copperwyrmling Mar 11, 2008 14:34:47	Can you give me more info on the helm, firstly its price I can't seem to find it online. It costs 10,000gp. p.71 of the MIC.
#16 Tellack Mar 11, 2008 18:48:56	For now, that item is out of the question :\ I don't have access or the money. So, I'm inclined to agree with Animated Shield upgrade (+ Using my Longsword as a two handed weapon) Power Attack Divine Might Holy to weapon in the near future... Thanks much So...what about level nine? :O
#17 copperwyrmling Mar 11, 2008 21:53:25	For now, that item is out of the question :\ I don't have access or the money. So, I'm inclined to agree with Animated Shield upgrade (+ Using my Longsword as a two handed weapon) Power Attack Divine Might Holy to weapon in the near future... Thanks much So...what about level nine? :O Stick with Pious Templar. Get your bonus feat ;) (That is, take Melee Weapon Mastery as your bonus feat and Divine Might / Extra Smiting as your general feat - Divine Might if you didn't retrain for it already.)
#18 Tellack Mar 12, 2008 9:10:10	Sounds great. Thanks for the help.
#19 Tellack Mar 12, 2008 22:47:16	I just took quite some time making a table/spreadsheet for my damage and + to hit abilities, after messing up a few times and talking on the phone. Using the Animated Shield and wielding the LS with two hands can give me a possible "average" of (2d8+62+10d6) 100 damage per round "doing everything", unbuffed (except with divine sacrifice). It's quite the damage increase! Without the spell cast and while still wielding the shield, 2d8+44 a round or d8+22 on a "doing everything" hit is quite the increase from d8+8 at level seven on a single hit. It'll take a few APL 6/8s to get my Animated Shield, but it will be quite worth it. Otherwise, I can go down to 22 AC and just DW the LS upon reaching level 8. Combat Options +Power Attack +Smite Evil +/- Divine Might PA Hit Damage Divine Might 2 Hits Divine Might 8 +8/+3 d8+18 d8+22 2d8+36 2d8+44 Combat Options Animated Shield/Wielding LS as a 2h weapon +Power Attack +Smite Evil +/- Divine Might PA Hit Damage Divine Might 2 Hits 2 Hits+DM 8 +8/+3 d8+27 d8+31 2d8+54 2d8+62
#20 clannagh_dup Mar 12, 2008 23:41:17	Brief comment without reading full thread so apologies if this has come up earlier ... Wisdom 11 (ioun stone?) will give you Bless Weapon which avoids some of the need for holy and auto confirms crits against evil creatures.
#21 kenobi65 Mar 12, 2008 23:44:39	Brief comment without reading full thread so apologies if this has come up earlier ... Wisdom 11 (ioun stone?) will give you Bless Weapon which avoids some of the need for holy and auto confirms crits against evil creatures. It does, and my PC has a 12 Wisdom, at least in part for that reason. It costs you a round if you don't have a chance to buff before combat, and it doesn't get the extra 2d6 damage that a Holy weapon would, but still, it's not bad. (As a Paladin 6 / PT 4, I get 4 Bless Weapons a day, two from each class.)
#22 clannagh_dup Mar 13, 2008 0:04:32	It does, and my PC has a 12 Wisdom, at least in part for that reason. It costs you a round if you don't have a chance to buff before combat, and it doesn't get the extra 2d6 damage that a Holy weapon would, but still, it's not bad. (As a Paladin 6 / PT 4, I get 4 Bless Weapons a day, two from each class.) It can also be stored in a Pearl 1 !!! ... meaning with a couple of 1000gc pearls you can memorise other good level 1 Pali spells like divine sacrifice and lesser res .. and still get enough bless weapon to last the day or even share it with the party tank.
#23 Tellack Mar 13, 2008 11:09:22	Yah, I'm bumping WIS to 11 at next level. I never thought of Pearl of Power though, good call. Animated Shield will cost me 6200g, thanks to a 20% discount favor.
#24 ramacass Mar 15, 2008 3:21:02	Divine Might is a no-brainer for a character with Charisma like yours', though you'd have to retrain something for its prereq, Power Attack. Extra Smite would do you well too, since you have two different kinds of smite. Does extra smiting give you two extra smites per class ability that grants you smiting? I thought it was just a flat 2 extra smites.
#25 jstorrie Mar 16, 2008 16:42:20	Two smites per class that grants smites is how I've always seen it ruled.
#26 Jay_Ibero_911 Mar 16, 2008 17:13:39	In this case Extra Smiting isn't any better than normally, since he only has one pool of smites. Pious Templar stacks with other smite sources if you already have one, rather than creating a separate smite pool.
#27 kenobi65 Mar 16, 2008 18:14:49	In this case Extra Smiting isn't any better than normally, since he only has one pool of smites. Pious Templar stacks with other smite sources if you already have one, rather than creating a separate smite pool. Yeah, I might buy the "Extra Smiting applies to both classes of smites" here if PT didn't specifically have text stating that its smites stack with the smites he gets as a Paladin.
#28 timlagor Mar 17, 2008 9:25:08	Extra Smite is one of those Feats that gets table variation -and GMs are entirely entitled to say that you have to choose the class to apply it to when you take the Feat and it only applies to those Smites. It's not relevant in this case but I wouldn't want people to think that everyone lets it count for all Smite Pools each time you take the Feat.