Spear-fighting cohort - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lomiat Sep 08, 2008 16:51:51	I'm fairly certain my 11th level cleric is going to pick up Leadership to take a level 9 melee cohort, most likely a spear fighting half-orc (story background): My question is how would I go about making the most entertaining (and effective) spear-fighting 9th level half-orc cohort. Don't post any builds involving spiked chains. Yes, the spiked chain is a better weapon, and the builds would be more optimal. But, no, that's not what this character is meant to be. Some considerations: 1) He's likely to end up in a party with a cleric who plays like a grey elf wizard, a buffing bard, an archer, a druid and a dwarven tank. 2) I've got access to the rogue alternate class feature from the PHBII, so he could grant -5 to bad stuff AC if he sacrificed sneak attack. 3) I want to have at least 1 trick that's not just run up (or 5-step) and full attack. Options include: Staggering Strike, Smite (via pious templar), Spring Attack, Combat Reflexes. 4) This character will be either NG or CG. Brainstorm away! Thanks in advance for your ideas...
#2 koushiro Sep 09, 2008 3:08:14	Well if you want a little bit of advice I'd honestly recommend looking at getting your cohort trained to use the Great Spear out of the Complete Warrior. It's effectively a great sword with reach and a 20 foot range increment. Also, who the heck are you playing with now?! :P
#3 fsi-dib Sep 09, 2008 9:38:31	If you seek for an efficient spearfighter, I recommend making a Fighter 4/Knight 3/Exotic Weapon Master 2. The idea is behind taking a ready action, having a Greatspear (CW), Hold the Line (CW), and Combat Reflexes (PHB). With the Knight's ability the foes are unable to attack the half-orc without getting one or two attacks. A perfect defender, so to speak.
#4 bitznarf Sep 09, 2008 10:19:07	If you will be fighting with a reach weapon, you're going to want an option for when they are in close and you can't take a 5' step to bring your (long/great) spear back into play. So something like Short Haft or a secondary weapon with a crystal of return if you have access.
#5 lomiat Sep 09, 2008 12:03:21	If you seek for an efficient spearfighter, I recommend making a Fighter 4/Knight 3/Exotic Weapon Master 2. The idea is behind taking a ready action, having a Greatspear (CW), Hold the Line (CW), and Combat Reflexes (PHB). With the Knight's ability the foes are unable to attack the half-orc without getting one or two attacks. A perfect defender, so to speak. Presumably, the EWM is based off Greatspear, correct? What do the EWM levels offer the build? The cohort is almost certainly going to be CG, possibly NG. Can a Knight be NG? I thought Knights needed to be lawful... Nonetheless, Knight is definitely tempting.
#6 koushiro Sep 09, 2008 12:58:04	You are correct, Knights need to be Lawful.
#7 bitznarf Sep 09, 2008 14:02:12	Exotic Reach is one option from EWM (take AoOs even when your opponent has cover). Can't recall any other particularily useful ones at the moment.
#8 lomiat Sep 09, 2008 14:32:21	Current build: Thoburk CG Half-orc STR 18 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 6 WIS 12 CHA 8 Bbn 1/Ftr 6/Rog 2 Feats: Power Attack, Extra Rage, Weapon Focus (longspear), Weapon Specialization (longspear), Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing), Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Staggering Strike Abilities: Rage 3/day, Sneak Attack +1d6, Evasion I'm open to options still - A CG Rogue / Pious Templar of Lydia could have both Evasion and Mettle (which would be cute) but couldn't have both Staggering Strike and Melee Weapon Mastery. Yet, apart from his reach, Thoburk doesn't have much defense to offer other than Staggering Strike and a stack of hit points... Nonetheless, experience has taught me Staggering Strike isn't all that hot. It's much better on paper than in practice. If there's a better trick, I'm interested.
#9 bitznarf Sep 09, 2008 14:53:28	Staggering Strike really depends on initiative order. If you go before the BBEG and deny them a full round action, it was useful. If you go after them and they die before they get another action, it did nothing.
#10 _metz_ Sep 09, 2008 22:56:33	Current build: I'm open to options still - A CG Rogue / Pious Templar of Lydia could have both Evasion and Mettle (which would be cute) but couldn't have both Staggering Strike and Melee Weapon Mastery. Yet, apart from his reach, Thoburk doesn't have much defense to offer other than Staggering Strike and a stack of hit points... Well Staggering Strike is more useful if you can get your sneak attack first. Most of the time it is great if you are the first to react and can get in fast and cut off the bad guy. Then you can finish them off with a full attack next round whilst waiting for the rest of the party to deal with other problems. (this is based on experience playing Sarian) Will a spear warrior braced get their sneak? It seems counter intuitive to me that a defensive character would regularly get it without a ring of blinking or other means, which become more common at high levels. If you want evasion - I would recommend monk. (Don't forget, Thoburk could be an ex monk who decides Lydia is more fun!) The monk also provides some useful defensive capabilities, will save + improved grapple + rage = useful against bad guys. A raging monk pious templar is a lot better at passing those will saves than a fighter/rogue... (Also a monk threatens with his left nut, so it overcomes the problem of the longspear's range as well as providing Knowledge Religion as a Class Skill) Thoburk CG Half-orc STR 18 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 6 WIS 12 CHA 8 1. Monk1: Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, True Believer 2. Monk2: Evasion, Combat Reflexes* 3. Barbarian: Extra Rage 4. Fighter1: Weapon Focus* 5. Fighter2: Power Attack* 6. Fighter3: Hold The Line 7. PT1: Mettle 8. PT2: 9: PT3: Weapon Specialisation, MWM 10: PT4: (Bonus Feat) 11: Fighter4: (Bonus Feat)* This means that if your cohort is good at 9th level, and if you get to 10th or 11th level there is something worthwhile at each level. (I'm all about getting something at each level) The Knowledge Religion as a Class skill for a monk will help also, and the Wis 12 will net you some Paladin spells which is always helpful. (Lesser Restoration as a first + Bless Weapon = win) As to the other feats: Short Haft (PHB II) might be a good idea. These are just ideas, the character is interesting this way, as he has both Evasion AND Mettle, and has the option of defensive strategy (Hold the Line+Combat Reflexes) And yet is still a reasonable fighter. A Good Level 12 Feat would might be extra smite if you really like that option.
#11 fsi-dib Sep 10, 2008 2:14:09	Alignment hassle, hmm, some would look at that with disgust. Then again, those people don't prevent it. If a lawful alignment is out of question, then I can't come up other particular builds utilizing spears, unless you want to make a Stormlord of Procan/Velnius/whatnot, which is a divine caster however. Being a cohort, a loyal companion and/or co-traveller, I sorta thought of a lawful aligned character. Partly why I suggested the Fighter/Knight.
#12 _metz_ Sep 10, 2008 8:14:39	Alignment hassle, hmm, some would look at that with disgust. Then again, those people don't prevent it. Such an attitude is a personal need to impose a view of how things should be roleplayed, something that I am not a fan of. builds = mechanic, role-play = how the PC acts and responds to stimuli. People often get those mixed up... Show With the exception of Paladin, I don't think that any class should have an alignment descriptor. And with the Paladin, I think it should only correspond to your order... (e.g: can be a blackguard) Even the fact that Knights are lawful is a hollywoodesque interpretation of fantasy, whereas real Knights were merely landowners that were trained for war. I have the same attitude of Monks and Barbarians - the DnD alignment system has always been flawed. 4th edition is just as bad, I mean they seem to think one needs Chaotic evil but not Lawful evil (which is the worst kind of evil) A loyal companion need not be lawful, that is a very crude interpretation of alignment. For example, what alignment is Han Solo? Comple Scoundrel describes him as Neutral, but is that accurate? Apparently Batman is Lawful Good, but should he be NG due to his complete disregard for existing institutions? Is James Bond Lawful? is James Bond actually good or just a nationalist willing to die for his cause? One man's lawful is another's justification for selfishness. I could ascribe to my own rules and ignore those of the nation's institutions, does that make me chaotic? A monk barbarian makes sense to me, perhaps one whose order was destroyed and now quests to avenge them, or a myriad of other opportunities. The alignment is to match that of Lydia, which helps with both the leadership rating and for character purposes. A character's build makes up the maths of the PC, it doesn't always have to dictate their roleplaying. Sometimes it does, but to claim it should is both restrictive and incongruous with a ultimately fantasy roleplaying game.
#13 lomiat Sep 10, 2008 10:13:43	Cohort background: Trying not to spoil the adventure much, here, but Aegon, my cleric, met Thoburk while Thoburk was a prisoner - a CN orc. A number of other prisoners all did the "smart" thing and went back to their homes, but Thoburk wanted to join with the party and fight! (1st level CN orc warrior, just like the MM orc, but CN.) Aegon handed him his longspear and strict directions to stay behind the 31+ AC dwarf, and Thoburk learned: "Me follow." There's the spear, there. Aegon will Atone Thoburk to NG, but Thoburk may slide to CG due to an inherently chaotic nature. Obviously, LG has no Orc cohort options, so Thoburk is now a half-orc. Certainly, the Monk build is a good one, and I'll consider it. Yet it forces that same Chaotic --> Lawful swap, unmerited by my conception of the character or of his leader, that a Knight would. Both are good builds, but I resist the alignment play. We'll see. It certainly would be nice to kick things standing next to him.
#14 _metz_ Sep 10, 2008 22:11:53	Cohort background: Certainly, the Monk build is a good one, and I'll consider it. Yet it forces that same Chaotic --> Lawful swap, unmerited by my conception of the character or of his leader, that a Knight would. Both are good builds, but I resist the alignment play. We'll see. It certainly would be nice to kick things standing next to him. Maybe when you met him he was already level 3 :P Concept is of course an issue. The rogue may work, the alternate class feature is always fun. However I would not recommend Staggering strike.
#15 magebeast Sep 10, 2008 23:08:19	After your example of order could do, said Orc went to try and pursue it. After a little while he decided that he didn't like meditation much, so in a reactionary measure (as people are so inclined to do!) he decided to go back to his roots. Didn't like that much either, so here we are today.
#16 koushiro Sep 10, 2008 23:42:39	Hmmmm, maybe instead of the actual orc you save becoming your cohort it's more of a deal. Having returned to his village to speak of you and your parties daring do, his son (a half-orc) decides either on his own or through conjoling by his father to enter your service and lend you his spear arm?
#17 howie23 Sep 11, 2008 0:37:33	Cohort background: Trying not to spoil the adventure much, here, but Aegon, my cleric, met Thoburk while Thoburk was a prisoner - a CN orc. A number of other prisoners all did the "smart" thing and went back to their homes, but Thoburk wanted to join with the party and fight! (1st level CN orc warrior, just like the MM orc, but CN.) Aegon handed him his longspear and strict directions to stay behind the 31+ AC dwarf, and Thoburk learned: "Me follow." There's the spear, there. Lomi, Now that you've fleshed this out, I'm going to reiterate my chat suggestion that you replace the spear with a martial pole-arm. Thoburk was a warrior (proficient with all martial weapons), so there is no reason to saddle him with a simple weapon based upon that spur of the moment whadyagot moment for the rest of his career. If you are gonna go for a simple weapon, build his classes to account for it (non-martial proficiency types). "Thobruk, you might find this works better...." says Lomiat's Player's Cleric. "Ah. Much better. Me follow. Me trip (or disarm, or smash, or spinning halberd). You must think Thobruk important. Mmmmm." If you're set on the long-spear melee fighter, since it is non-optimal in the first place, just enjoy and ignore me. :D David
#18 lomiat Sep 12, 2008 11:46:42	I think I'm going with a build almost identical to Metz's. I'd already considered the ex-monk/barbarian/pious templar build; in fact, my first thought was to create a cohort with Mettle, Evasion and Melee Weapon Master (inspired, largely, by the several hundreds hit points of damage mettled away by the dwarf with whom Thoburk first adventured). I just felt the alignment-hopping was cheezy... ...but then I realized: A) I'm only going to play Thoburk with a small group of players, none of whom will care if he's an ex-monk, and B) I am cheezy, so what do I care? (B said partially tongue in cheek.) Anyway, now it's just a matter of conceiving the movement from first adventure to all those classes and prestige class... "Teacher make Thoburk take monkey class. She say me have anger magm... manga... manama... GRAAAH!!! Me get mad!" (It's all about the rank in Perform [song]: "Lydia, oh Lydia, oh have you seen Lydia?...")
#19 KarmaInferno Sep 12, 2008 19:48:29	Think of it this way. Why would there be rules about ex-monks, if they were not intended to be used? -karma
#20 _metz_ Sep 14, 2008 4:53:46	(It's all about the rank in Perform [song]: "Lydia, oh Lydia, oh have you seen Lydia?...") That's the spirit!

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

lomiat

Sep 08, 2008 16:51:51

I'm fairly certain my 11th level cleric is going to pick up Leadership to take a level 9 melee cohort, most likely a spear fighting half-orc (story background):

My question is how would I go about making the most entertaining (and effective) spear-fighting 9th level half-orc cohort.

Don't post any builds involving spiked chains. Yes, the spiked chain is a better weapon, and the builds would be more optimal. But, no, that's not what this character is meant to be.

Some considerations:
1) He's likely to end up in a party with a cleric who plays like a grey elf wizard, a buffing bard, an archer, a druid and a dwarven tank.

2) I've got access to the rogue alternate class feature from the PHBII, so he could grant -5 to bad stuff AC if he sacrificed sneak attack.

3) I want to have at least 1 trick that's not just run up (or 5-step) and full attack. Options include: Staggering Strike, Smite (via pious templar), Spring Attack, Combat Reflexes.

4) This character will be either NG or CG.

Brainstorm away! Thanks in advance for your ideas...

koushiro

Sep 09, 2008 3:08:14

Well if you want a little bit of advice I'd honestly recommend looking at getting your cohort trained to use the Great Spear out of the Complete Warrior. It's effectively a great sword with reach and a 20 foot range increment.

Also, who the heck are you playing with now?! :P

fsi-dib

Sep 09, 2008 9:38:31

If you seek for an efficient spearfighter, I recommend making a Fighter 4/Knight 3/Exotic Weapon Master 2. The idea is behind taking a ready action, having a Greatspear (CW), Hold the Line (CW), and Combat Reflexes (PHB). With the Knight's ability the foes are unable to attack the half-orc without getting one or two attacks. A perfect defender, so to speak.

bitznarf

Sep 09, 2008 10:19:07

If you will be fighting with a reach weapon, you're going to want an option for when they are in close and you can't take a 5' step to bring your (long/great) spear back into play. So something like Short Haft or a secondary weapon with a crystal of return if you have access.

lomiat

Sep 09, 2008 12:03:21

If you seek for an efficient spearfighter, I recommend making a Fighter 4/Knight 3/Exotic Weapon Master 2. The idea is behind taking a ready action, having a Greatspear (CW), Hold the Line (CW), and Combat Reflexes (PHB). With the Knight's ability the foes are unable to attack the half-orc without getting one or two attacks. A perfect defender, so to speak.

Presumably, the EWM is based off Greatspear, correct? What do the EWM levels offer the build?

The cohort is almost certainly going to be CG, possibly NG. Can a Knight be NG? I thought Knights needed to be lawful...

Nonetheless, Knight is definitely tempting.

koushiro

Sep 09, 2008 12:58:04

You are correct, Knights need to be Lawful.

bitznarf

Sep 09, 2008 14:02:12

Exotic Reach is one option from EWM (take AoOs even when your opponent has cover). Can't recall any other particularily useful ones at the moment.

lomiat

Sep 09, 2008 14:32:21

Current build:

Thoburk
CG Half-orc
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 6
WIS 12
CHA 8

Bbn 1/Ftr 6/Rog 2
Feats: Power Attack, Extra Rage, Weapon Focus (longspear), Weapon Specialization (longspear), Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing), Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Staggering Strike

Abilities: Rage 3/day, Sneak Attack +1d6, Evasion

I'm open to options still - A CG Rogue / Pious Templar of Lydia could have both Evasion and Mettle (which would be cute) but couldn't have both Staggering Strike and Melee Weapon Mastery. Yet, apart from his reach, Thoburk doesn't have much defense to offer other than Staggering Strike and a stack of hit points...

Nonetheless, experience has taught me Staggering Strike isn't all that hot. It's much better on paper than in practice. If there's a better trick, I'm interested.

bitznarf

Sep 09, 2008 14:53:28

Staggering Strike really depends on initiative order. If you go before the BBEG and deny them a full round action, it was useful. If you go after them and they die before they get another action, it did nothing.

#10

_metz_

Sep 09, 2008 22:56:33

Current build:
I'm open to options still - A CG Rogue / Pious Templar of Lydia could have both Evasion and Mettle (which would be cute) but couldn't have both Staggering Strike and Melee Weapon Mastery. Yet, apart from his reach, Thoburk doesn't have much defense to offer other than Staggering Strike and a stack of hit points...

Well Staggering Strike is more useful if you can get your sneak attack first. Most of the time it is great if you are the first to react and can get in fast and cut off the bad guy. Then you can finish them off with a full attack next round whilst waiting for the rest of the party to deal with other problems. (this is based on experience playing Sarian)

Will a spear warrior braced get their sneak? It seems counter intuitive to me that a defensive character would regularly get it without a ring of blinking or other means, which become more common at high levels. If you want evasion - I would recommend monk. (Don't forget, Thoburk could be an ex monk who decides Lydia is more fun!)

The monk also provides some useful defensive capabilities, will save + improved grapple + rage = useful against bad guys. A raging monk pious templar is a lot better at passing those will saves than a fighter/rogue... (Also a monk threatens with his left nut, so it overcomes the problem of the longspear's range as well as providing Knowledge Religion as a Class Skill)

Thoburk
CG Half-orc
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 6
WIS 12
CHA 8

1. Monk1: Improved Grapple*, Improved Unarmed Strike*, True Believer
2. Monk2: Evasion, Combat Reflexes*
3. Barbarian: Extra Rage
4. Fighter1: Weapon Focus*
5. Fighter2: Power Attack*
6. Fighter3: Hold The Line
7. PT1: Mettle
8. PT2:
9: PT3: Weapon Specialisation*, MWM

10: PT4: (Bonus Feat)*
11: Fighter4: (Bonus Feat)*

This means that if your cohort is good at 9th level, and if you get to 10th or 11th level there is something worthwhile at each level. (I'm all about getting something at each level)

The Knowledge Religion as a Class skill for a monk will help also, and the Wis 12 will net you some Paladin spells which is always helpful. (Lesser Restoration as a first + Bless Weapon = win)

As to the other feats:

Short Haft (PHB II) might be a good idea.

These are just ideas, the character is interesting this way, as he has both Evasion AND Mettle, and has the option of defensive strategy (Hold the Line+Combat Reflexes) And yet is still a reasonable fighter.

A Good Level 12 Feat would might be extra smite if you really like that option.

#11

fsi-dib

Sep 10, 2008 2:14:09

Alignment hassle, hmm, some would look at that with disgust. Then again, those people don't prevent it.

If a lawful alignment is out of question, then I can't come up other particular builds utilizing spears, unless you want to make a Stormlord of Procan/Velnius/whatnot, which is a divine caster however.

Being a cohort, a loyal companion and/or co-traveller, I sorta thought of a lawful aligned character. Partly why I suggested the Fighter/Knight.

#12

_metz_

Sep 10, 2008 8:14:39

Alignment hassle, hmm, some would look at that with disgust. Then again, those people don't prevent it.

Such an attitude is a personal need to impose a view of how things should be roleplayed, something that I am not a fan of. builds = mechanic, role-play = how the PC acts and responds to stimuli. People often get those mixed up...

Show

With the exception of Paladin, I don't think that any class should have an alignment descriptor. And with the Paladin, I think it should only correspond to your order... (e.g: can be a blackguard)

Even the fact that Knights are lawful is a hollywoodesque interpretation of fantasy, whereas real Knights were merely landowners that were trained for war.

I have the same attitude of Monks and Barbarians - the DnD alignment system has always been flawed. 4th edition is just as bad, I mean they seem to think one needs Chaotic evil but not Lawful evil (which is the worst kind of evil)

A loyal companion need not be lawful, that is a very crude interpretation of alignment.

For example, what alignment is Han Solo? Comple Scoundrel describes him as Neutral, but is that accurate?

Apparently Batman is Lawful Good, but should he be NG due to his complete disregard for existing institutions? Is James Bond Lawful? is James Bond actually good or just a nationalist willing to die for his cause?

One man's lawful is another's justification for selfishness. I could ascribe to my own rules and ignore those of the nation's institutions, does that make me chaotic?

A monk barbarian makes sense to me, perhaps one whose order was destroyed and now quests to avenge them, or a myriad of other opportunities. The alignment is to match that of Lydia, which helps with both the leadership rating and for character purposes.

A character's build makes up the maths of the PC, it doesn't always have to dictate their roleplaying. Sometimes it does, but to claim it should is both restrictive and incongruous with a ultimately fantasy roleplaying game.

#13

lomiat

Sep 10, 2008 10:13:43

Cohort background:

Trying not to spoil the adventure much, here, but Aegon, my cleric, met Thoburk while Thoburk was a prisoner - a CN orc. A number of other prisoners all did the "smart" thing and went back to their homes, but Thoburk wanted to join with the party and fight! (1st level CN orc warrior, just like the MM orc, but CN.)

Aegon handed him his longspear and strict directions to stay behind the 31+ AC dwarf, and Thoburk learned: "Me follow." There's the spear, there.

Aegon will Atone Thoburk to NG, but Thoburk may slide to CG due to an inherently chaotic nature. Obviously, LG has no Orc cohort options, so Thoburk is now a half-orc.

Certainly, the Monk build is a good one, and I'll consider it. Yet it forces that same Chaotic --> Lawful swap, unmerited by my conception of the character or of his leader, that a Knight would. Both are good builds, but I resist the alignment play. We'll see. It certainly would be nice to kick things standing next to him.

#14

_metz_

Sep 10, 2008 22:11:53

Cohort background:
Certainly, the Monk build is a good one, and I'll consider it. Yet it forces that same Chaotic --> Lawful swap, unmerited by my conception of the character or of his leader, that a Knight would. Both are good builds, but I resist the alignment play. We'll see. It certainly would be nice to kick things standing next to him.

Maybe when you met him he was already level 3 :P

Concept is of course an issue. The rogue may work, the alternate class feature is always fun. However I would not recommend Staggering strike.

#15

magebeast

Sep 10, 2008 23:08:19

After your example of order could do, said Orc went to try and pursue it.

After a little while he decided that he didn't like meditation much, so in a reactionary measure (as people are so inclined to do!) he decided to go back to his roots.

Didn't like that much either, so here we are today.

#16

koushiro

Sep 10, 2008 23:42:39

Hmmmm, maybe instead of the actual orc you save becoming your cohort it's more of a deal. Having returned to his village to speak of you and your parties daring do, his son (a half-orc) decides either on his own or through conjoling by his father to enter your service and lend you his spear arm?

#17

howie23

Sep 11, 2008 0:37:33

Cohort background:

Trying not to spoil the adventure much, here, but Aegon, my cleric, met Thoburk while Thoburk was a prisoner - a CN orc. A number of other prisoners all did the "smart" thing and went back to their homes, but Thoburk wanted to join with the party and fight! (1st level CN orc warrior, just like the MM orc, but CN.)

Aegon handed him his longspear and strict directions to stay behind the 31+ AC dwarf, and Thoburk learned: "Me follow." There's the spear, there.

Lomi,

Now that you've fleshed this out, I'm going to reiterate my chat suggestion that you replace the spear with a martial pole-arm. Thoburk was a warrior (proficient with all martial weapons), so there is no reason to saddle him with a simple weapon based upon that spur of the moment whadyagot moment for the rest of his career. If you are gonna go for a simple weapon, build his classes to account for it (non-martial proficiency types).

"Thobruk, you might find this works better...." says Lomiat's Player's Cleric.

"Ah. Much better. Me follow. Me trip (or disarm, or smash, or spinning halberd). You must think Thobruk important. Mmmmm."

If you're set on the long-spear melee fighter, since it is non-optimal in the first place, just enjoy and ignore me. :D

David

#18

lomiat

Sep 12, 2008 11:46:42

I think I'm going with a build almost identical to Metz's. I'd already considered the ex-monk/barbarian/pious templar build; in fact, my first thought was to create a cohort with Mettle, Evasion and Melee Weapon Master (inspired, largely, by the several hundreds hit points of damage mettled away by the dwarf with whom Thoburk first adventured). I just felt the alignment-hopping was cheezy...

...but then I realized: A) I'm only going to play Thoburk with a small group of players, none of whom will care if he's an ex-monk, and B) I *am* cheezy, so what do I care? (B said partially tongue in cheek.)

Anyway, now it's just a matter of conceiving the movement from first adventure to all those classes and prestige class...

"Teacher make Thoburk take monkey class. She say me have anger magm... manga... manama... GRAAAH!!! Me get mad!"

(It's all about the rank in Perform [song]: "Lydia, oh Lydia, oh have you seen Lydia?...")

#19

KarmaInferno

Sep 12, 2008 19:48:29

Think of it this way.

Why would there be rules about ex-monks, if they were not intended to be used?

-karma

#20

_metz_

Sep 14, 2008 4:53:46

(It's all about the rank in Perform [song]: "Lydia, oh Lydia, oh have you seen Lydia?...")

That's the spirit!