Sun School Flash of Sunset!
Obviously, this part of the feat means you'd get an immediate attack even though you spent a standard action to move next to a bad guy, using, say, Dim Door or Abundant Step. Presumably, even using a swift action spell you cast yourself (Knight's Move) wouldn't go in for much argument, regardless of the fact that you now have a full attack available to you in that turn.
How about the following cheesy ways to get an attack? Would you rule yes or no?
Cape of the Mountebank (standard action)
Boots of Swift Passage (move action)
Anklets of Translocation (swift action)
Someone else casting Benign Transposition or Dim Door on you
If yes so far, how about le Fromage Ultime:
Boots of Swift Passage twice (two move actions) with Transposer Cloak (swift action) to get three attacks in a round? Rich man's dervish?
Yeah, it's getting pretty late in the day to ask about rules interpretations. But some of us haven't been playing all that long, and want to go as far as possible by the end of the year. So, for anyone still hanging around here, can I get an interpretation on how you'd rule on...
There's some of us still around, sad as that may be
At least you're giving us something to think about!Obviously, this part of the feat means you'd get an immediate attack even though you spent a standard action to move next to a bad guy, using, say, Dim Door or Abundant Step. Presumably, even using a swift action spell you cast yourself (Knight's Move) wouldn't go in for much argument, regardless of the fact that you now have a full attack available to you in that turn.
All sounds correct so far.
How about the following cheesy ways to get an attack? Would you rule yes or no?
Cape of the Mountebank (standard action)
Boots of Swift Passage (move action)
Anklets of Translocation (swift action)
Someone else casting Benign Transposition or Dim Door on you
All are valid uses for the feat as far as I can see. Note that in most cases, the best that you can get is a single extra attack in a round, from using an ability which functions at most a few times/day. Alternatively, if somebody else is using dimensional travel on you, then they are effectively trading their action so that you can get an extra attack. About the best tradeoff I can see is somebody using greater dimension door to trade their move action to give you an attack.
If yes so far, how about le Fromage Ultime:
Boots of Swift Passage twice (two move actions) with Transposer Cloak (swift action) to get three attacks in a round? Rich man's dervish?
I remember discussing with solbergb at some point in time whether or not you could use the flash of sunset ability to get multiple extra attacks in a single round. I can't remember the outcome, but I think we concluded that yes, this was possible.
So, yes, I think this works. However, it's not quite a rich man's dervish, as you don't end up away from your foe at the end of your action (assuming you want to use the transposer cloak to get a third attack). You're probably better off using the transposer cloak to get yourself in there, take the bonus attack, and then take a full attack with your remaining action.
So, not quite what I'd call le fromage ultime, but hey, it's a nifty little trick. I've heard of it (I don't think I've seen it) used by a monk with abundant step and a ring of silent spells: dimdoor next to caster, activate ring with swift, grapple caster. Caster now in trouble. Usually.
So, not quite what I'd call le fromage ultime, but hey, it's a nifty little trick. I've heard of it (I don't think I've seen it) used by a monk with abundant step and a ring of silent spells: dimdoor next to caster, activate ring with swift, grapple caster. Caster now in trouble. Usually.
Of course, you have to activate the ring of silent spells *before* the Dim Door as the Dim Door ends your action (except for the resolution of the attack specifically allowed by Sun School).
I had planned in one battle interactive to use Greater Dimension Door + monk full attack sequences to tremendous effect, expecting that Highfolk's cheeze would require it. However, it proved unnecessary, so we avoided the 700 or 1000 hit points of average damage per round I calculated our monk would do if he hit on his attacks.
Instead, our archer managed to crit with his first ever shot from an Exit Wound weapon :P
Of course, you have to activate the ring of silent spells *before* the Dim Door as the Dim Door ends your action (except for the resolution of the attack specifically allowed by Sun School).
Right. I have seen this used, and it also required a Greater Dispel prior to the monk's action, to kill the ur-priest's Freedom of Movement.
I had planned in one battle interactive to use Greater Dimension Door + monk full attack sequences to tremendous effect, expecting that Highfolk's cheeze would require it. However, it proved unnecessary, so we avoided the 700 or 1000 hit points of average damage per round I calculated our monk would do if he hit on his attacks.
Okay, I'll bite. How were you doing that much? Was there a Zealot Pact involved? (I'm assuming this is the monk with holy wounding fists, but even so, that's a lot of damage, and Greater D-Door is just giving him an extra attack and then letting him full attack, right?)
EDIT: Oh wait... was Greater Mighty Wallop involved?
So, not quite what I'd call le fromage ultime, but hey, it's a nifty little trick. I've heard of it (I don't think I've seen it) used by a monk with abundant step and a ring of silent spells: dimdoor next to caster, activate ring with swift, grapple caster. Caster now in trouble. Usually.
I knew I should have grabbed the ring of silent spells when I had the chance. Well, I was referring to ways to cheese up Sun School specifically. I know there's tons of stronger stuff out there, but the poor monk usually isn't the recipient of such accusations.
we avoided the 700 or 1000 hit points of average damage per round I calculated our monk would do if he hit on his attacks.
Or maybe not "poor monk". I'm lucky if I can crack 200 in a round. Add me to the list of the curious about what build and buff combinations get to the 700-1000 range.
Right. I have seen this used, and it also required a Greater Dispel prior to the monk's action, to kill the ur-priest's Freedom of Movement.
This is why I like stunning fist better than grapple. FoM doesn't apply, and they still can't do anything. Hmm, maybe I should look at Ability Focus (Stunning Fist) again...
Now, if I end up playing with someone who could cast Greater Mighty Wallop, that would be something indeed. I'd even stop asking Afahl for the Greater Magic Weapon. :D
Okay, I'll bite. How were you doing that much? Was there a Zealot Pact involved? (I'm assuming this is the monk with holy wounding fists, but even so, that's a lot of damage, and Greater D-Door is just giving him an extra attack and then letting him full attack, right?)
EDIT: Oh wait... was Greater Mighty Wallop involved?
It just involved Fires of Purity and other buffs (no Greater Mighty Wallop) plus multiple, multiple Dim Doors each round. I think I screwed up and figured that each of the Avorals I would have Summoned could have Dim Doored him, too.
Now, I'm not so sure I'd want to inflict Avorals on anyone...
But Enlarged, he would have been at (4d8 --> ?? 4d10 ??) + 8 strength + 5 magic + 15 fire + 2d6 holy + wounding per hit. Expect even CON and something like an average of 18 HD. And seven (??) attacks in a full-attack sequence. (Avg. roughly 66 per hit, so it would have required about 12 hits to get 700 hps a round -- or 5 teleports/dim doors.) I really wanted to bounce him around the battlefield like a pinball. Contingency: Greater Dim Door certainly would have been a part of it -- 2 from my PC and familiar alone, 1 more for the monk. Possibly more for other PCs. But it was all moot as the battle simply didn't necessitate that level of strategy.
It's worth noting that Sun School does, in fact, have other nice uses, especially the "punch the monster twice so it has to step back into the Prismatic Wall" use. That's a good one.
Oh, absolutely. I fully intend to try to get all three parts of Sun School to trigger in a single round.
(Start with a stunned BBEG. Knight's Move to a flank, stun him again with Flash of Sunset, confusing him with Blinding Sun of Noon. Hit on first two flurries, push him into your flanking buddy with Inexorable Progress of Dawn, knocking him prone. Finish the full attack at +4. BBEG doesn't know what time of day it is.)