Black tentacles question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Black tentacles question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ramacass
Apr 17, 2008 7:00:15 Can black tentacles grow out of a surface that couldn't support their wieght. Example could the black tentacles grow out of a tree branch to grapple the goblin hiding up in a tree?
thanks
#2
amysrevenge
Apr 17, 2008 10:51:16 Yes - it's magic.
#3
magebeast
Apr 17, 2008 12:39:40 I'd say expect table variation.
#4
timlagor
Apr 17, 2008 16:27:26 it works on thge surface of water.

What's it's weight anyway?

yes it works. The spell says what it does and makes no provision for weight being a factor so it isn't.
#5
Vamroc
Apr 18, 2008 2:00:41 I've come to the conclusion that Magic is a process that generates an effect that doesn't use Particles. Because if it did Magic would be subject to the laws of physics and Magic should follow the rules of particle physics. Fire melts and burns, water erodes and warps, cold freezes water and makes metal, stone, etc.. explode when they're heated rapidly. Would it be fair to have enemies and PCs a like take extra damage if they're hit by a Cone of Cold and a Fireball in the same round no but that's exactly what would happen to them if you applied particle physics. The reason EBT can be placed underwater has to do with how it's written it says "any surface under foot" well water has a surface that both can be walked on (see Jesus) and also covers an area that you can walk through provided you allow your self to sink. Is it hairsplitting yes but its how the spell it written personally I think a Ray of Frost should just auto kill small or medium WATER ELEMENTALS. Because water is such an excellent conductor of cold, heat, and electricity spells that have those attributes should be more effective. It says when you turn flesh to stone and break off pieces it may kill the PC if he is broken and you don't have all the vital pieces when restored. Well shouldn't the same be true of any creature with the Water Subtype hit by a cold effect like Freezing Fog, Ray of Frost, or Cone of Cold. I know every time I drop an ice cube it shatters and that's like from like three feet off the ground. Another example go put a container of frozen soda in a preheated oven set for 425 and watch it explode. Well same thing should happen if an Iron Golem is hit with a Scorching Ray and then hit the same spot with an Orb of Cold over and over that's right you would get metal fatigue and fracturing. Or a least that's what would happen if D&D's Magic system employed particles and or physics.
#6
stonebasher
Apr 18, 2008 11:23:43
I've come to the conclusion that Magic is a process that generates an effect that doesn't use Particles. Because if it did Magic would be subject to the laws of physics and Magic should follow the rules of particle physics. Fire melts and burns, water erodes and warps, cold freezes water and makes metal, stone, etc.. explode when they're heated rapidly. Would it be fair to have enemies and PCs a like take extra damage if they're hit by a Cone of Cold and a Fireball in the same round no but that's exactly what would happen to them if you applied particle physics. The reason EBT can be placed underwater has to do with how it's written it says "any surface under foot" well water has a surface that both can be walked on (see Jesus) and also covers an area that you can walk through provided you allow your self to sink. Is it hairsplitting yes but its how the spell it written personally I think a Ray of Frost should just auto kill small or medium WATER ELEMENTALS. Because water is such an excellent conductor of cold, heat, and electricity spells that have those attributes should be more effective. It says when you turn flesh to stone and break off pieces it may kill the PC if he is broken and you don't have all the vital pieces when restored. Well shouldn't the same be true of any creature with the Water Subtype hit by a cold effect like Freezing Fog, Ray of Frost, or Cone of Cold. I know every time I drop an ice cube it shatters and that's like from like three feet off the ground. Another example go put a container of frozen soda in a preheated oven set for 425 and watch it explode. Well same thing should happen if an Iron Golem is hit with a Scorching Ray and then hit the same spot with an Orb of Cold over and over that's right you would get metal fatigue and fracturing. Or a least that's what would happen if D&D's Magic system employed particles and or physics.

Hah, try having the cleric cast Create Water, cast Cone of Cold on it, then see how much damage it does when it hits an enemy. The conclusion we reached on the yahoo group was "This is a stupid discussion, physics has no part in D&D, and why the heck are you trying to do this at APL 10 anyways?"
#7
Vamroc
Apr 18, 2008 12:46:23
Hah, try having the cleric cast Create Water, cast Cone of Cold on it, then see how much damage it does when it hits an enemy. The conclusion we reached on the yahoo group was "This is a stupid discussion, physics has no part in D&D, and why the heck are you trying to do this at APL 10 anyways?"

Agreed but it would add a dynamic both players and the writers could have a lot of fun with
#8
ranielk
Apr 18, 2008 13:06:36
Agreed but it would add a dynamic both players and the writers could have a lot of fun with

Sure, but I wouldn't wish the task of creating a coherent rules system that modeled such physics on the Dev's. Their job is hard enough (and generally thankless enough). Lord knows I beat up on them about the new Realms!
#9
Vamroc
Apr 18, 2008 16:36:39
Sure, but I wouldn't wish the task of creating a coherent rules system that modeled such physics on the Dev's. Their job is hard enough (and generally thankless enough).

If that's not the god's truth than nothing is.
#10
timlagor
Apr 18, 2008 17:47:57 Anyone worked out what a square rom look slike in 4E yet? ;)
#11
iswald
Apr 20, 2008 22:15:36
well water has a surface that both can be walked on (see Jesus)

Good example for a fantasy game. ;)
#12
koushiro
Apr 22, 2008 2:28:02 Your entering into a vague area where we'd have to find out how much the tentacles weighed.
#13
Vamroc
Apr 22, 2008 19:44:42
Your entering into a vague area where we'd have to find out how much the tentacles weighed.

You missed the point Magic is a process that uses neither particals or the laws of physics so any effect generated by the process of magic must have zero weight. If Magic had weight creatures in water would not receive cover from attacks like Fireball, Orb of Force or Melf's Acid Arrow. A Fireball would have to be made of a gas that explodes and the explosion would create a concussive force that both super heats the water and pushes it outward for the radius of the blast. Once that happens the water would then slam back in to the creature with the same amount of force that was imparted to it by the blast.
#14
evilcouch
Apr 22, 2008 20:58:14 Most magical spells are entirely unaffected by their surroundings. The "bead" precursor to a fireball jets out of the caster's hand in a perfectly straight line towards the target. There is no rise due to a presumably aerodynamic shape and massive amounts of thrust. There is no drop due to gravity.

Presumably, Evard's black tentacles only needs a surface as a material focus. Apparently, conjuring tentacles in mid-air would blow the caster's mind, by being just too crazy to comprehend. I'd make an exception for Alienists, though. :p

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ramacass Apr 17, 2008 7:00:15	Can black tentacles grow out of a surface that couldn't support their wieght. Example could the black tentacles grow out of a tree branch to grapple the goblin hiding up in a tree? thanks
#2 amysrevenge Apr 17, 2008 10:51:16	Yes - it's magic.
#3 magebeast Apr 17, 2008 12:39:40	I'd say expect table variation.
#4 timlagor Apr 17, 2008 16:27:26	it works on thge surface of water. What's it's weight anyway? yes it works. The spell says what it does and makes no provision for weight being a factor so it isn't.
#5 Vamroc Apr 18, 2008 2:00:41	I've come to the conclusion that Magic is a process that generates an effect that doesn't use Particles. Because if it did Magic would be subject to the laws of physics and Magic should follow the rules of particle physics. Fire melts and burns, water erodes and warps, cold freezes water and makes metal, stone, etc.. explode when they're heated rapidly. Would it be fair to have enemies and PCs a like take extra damage if they're hit by a Cone of Cold and a Fireball in the same round no but that's exactly what would happen to them if you applied particle physics. The reason EBT can be placed underwater has to do with how it's written it says "any surface under foot" well water has a surface that both can be walked on (see Jesus) and also covers an area that you can walk through provided you allow your self to sink. Is it hairsplitting yes but its how the spell it written personally I think a Ray of Frost should just auto kill small or medium WATER ELEMENTALS. Because water is such an excellent conductor of cold, heat, and electricity spells that have those attributes should be more effective. It says when you turn flesh to stone and break off pieces it may kill the PC if he is broken and you don't have all the vital pieces when restored. Well shouldn't the same be true of any creature with the Water Subtype hit by a cold effect like Freezing Fog, Ray of Frost, or Cone of Cold. I know every time I drop an ice cube it shatters and that's like from like three feet off the ground. Another example go put a container of frozen soda in a preheated oven set for 425 and watch it explode. Well same thing should happen if an Iron Golem is hit with a Scorching Ray and then hit the same spot with an Orb of Cold over and over that's right you would get metal fatigue and fracturing. Or a least that's what would happen if D&D's Magic system employed particles and or physics.
#6 stonebasher Apr 18, 2008 11:23:43	I've come to the conclusion that Magic is a process that generates an effect that doesn't use Particles. Because if it did Magic would be subject to the laws of physics and Magic should follow the rules of particle physics. Fire melts and burns, water erodes and warps, cold freezes water and makes metal, stone, etc.. explode when they're heated rapidly. Would it be fair to have enemies and PCs a like take extra damage if they're hit by a Cone of Cold and a Fireball in the same round no but that's exactly what would happen to them if you applied particle physics. The reason EBT can be placed underwater has to do with how it's written it says "any surface under foot" well water has a surface that both can be walked on (see Jesus) and also covers an area that you can walk through provided you allow your self to sink. Is it hairsplitting yes but its how the spell it written personally I think a Ray of Frost should just auto kill small or medium WATER ELEMENTALS. Because water is such an excellent conductor of cold, heat, and electricity spells that have those attributes should be more effective. It says when you turn flesh to stone and break off pieces it may kill the PC if he is broken and you don't have all the vital pieces when restored. Well shouldn't the same be true of any creature with the Water Subtype hit by a cold effect like Freezing Fog, Ray of Frost, or Cone of Cold. I know every time I drop an ice cube it shatters and that's like from like three feet off the ground. Another example go put a container of frozen soda in a preheated oven set for 425 and watch it explode. Well same thing should happen if an Iron Golem is hit with a Scorching Ray and then hit the same spot with an Orb of Cold over and over that's right you would get metal fatigue and fracturing. Or a least that's what would happen if D&D's Magic system employed particles and or physics. Hah, try having the cleric cast Create Water, cast Cone of Cold on it, then see how much damage it does when it hits an enemy. The conclusion we reached on the yahoo group was "This is a stupid discussion, physics has no part in D&D, and why the heck are you trying to do this at APL 10 anyways?"
#7 Vamroc Apr 18, 2008 12:46:23	Hah, try having the cleric cast Create Water, cast Cone of Cold on it, then see how much damage it does when it hits an enemy. The conclusion we reached on the yahoo group was "This is a stupid discussion, physics has no part in D&D, and why the heck are you trying to do this at APL 10 anyways?" Agreed but it would add a dynamic both players and the writers could have a lot of fun with
#8 ranielk Apr 18, 2008 13:06:36	Agreed but it would add a dynamic both players and the writers could have a lot of fun with Sure, but I wouldn't wish the task of creating a coherent rules system that modeled such physics on the Dev's. Their job is hard enough (and generally thankless enough). Lord knows I beat up on them about the new Realms!
#9 Vamroc Apr 18, 2008 16:36:39	Sure, but I wouldn't wish the task of creating a coherent rules system that modeled such physics on the Dev's. Their job is hard enough (and generally thankless enough). If that's not the god's truth than nothing is.
#10 timlagor Apr 18, 2008 17:47:57	Anyone worked out what a square rom look slike in 4E yet? ;)
#11 iswald Apr 20, 2008 22:15:36	well water has a surface that both can be walked on (see Jesus) Good example for a fantasy game. ;)
#12 koushiro Apr 22, 2008 2:28:02	Your entering into a vague area where we'd have to find out how much the tentacles weighed.
#13 Vamroc Apr 22, 2008 19:44:42	Your entering into a vague area where we'd have to find out how much the tentacles weighed. You missed the point Magic is a process that uses neither particals or the laws of physics so any effect generated by the process of magic must have zero weight. If Magic had weight creatures in water would not receive cover from attacks like Fireball, Orb of Force or Melf's Acid Arrow. A Fireball would have to be made of a gas that explodes and the explosion would create a concussive force that both super heats the water and pushes it outward for the radius of the blast. Once that happens the water would then slam back in to the creature with the same amount of force that was imparted to it by the blast.
#14 evilcouch Apr 22, 2008 20:58:14	Most magical spells are entirely unaffected by their surroundings. The "bead" precursor to a fireball jets out of the caster's hand in a perfectly straight line towards the target. There is no rise due to a presumably aerodynamic shape and massive amounts of thrust. There is no drop due to gravity. Presumably, Evard's black tentacles only needs a surface as a material focus. Apparently, conjuring tentacles in mid-air would blow the caster's mind, by being just too crazy to comprehend. I'd make an exception for Alienists, though. :p