Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Jay_Ibero_911 May 22, 2008 17:01:03	Can spells with the shadow descriptor be cast in the area of a dimensional lock? Dimensional Lock Abjuration Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 8 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a point in space Duration: One day/level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You create a shimmering emerald barrier that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like or psionic abilities. Once dimensional lock is in place, extradimensional travel into or out of the area is not possible. A dimensional lock does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
#2 KarmaInferno May 23, 2008 9:32:21	I think that's kinda iffy, as it's not really an "attack form". Attacks usually require you target opponents and try to affect then with something. A Shadow Conjuration Lightning Bolt would be a good example. I'd also question the "not moving extradimensionally" bit as well, because you can use the spell to pass through magical barriers including a Wall of Force. I can't see any other way to do so without going extradimensional, which is blocked by the Dimensional Lock. I can see a few DMs allowing this, but I wouldn't count on it. -karma
#3 Jay_Ibero_911 May 23, 2008 13:36:12	I think that's kinda iffy, as it's not really an "attack form". Attacks usually require you target opponents and try to affect then with something. A Shadow Conjuration Lightning Bolt would be a good example. I'd also question the "not moving extradimensionally" bit as well, because you can use the spell to pass through magical barriers including a Wall of Force. I can't see any other way to do so without going extradimensional, which is blocked by the Dimensional Lock. I can see a few DMs allowing this, but I wouldn't count on it. -karma That actually brings up a point I meant to ask but forgot initially...what about shadow spells that are niether motive nor attacks? There are few that fall into this category, but they do exist (Shadow Hand, Shadow Landscape, Shadow Phase, Shadow Mask to name a few from the SPC). Are they useable in a dimension lock? As to whether or not Shadow Form moves you extradimensionally or not and the wall of force issue...while not 100% valid in LG, it is possible to pass through a wall of force with an epic DC 120 escape artist check...so it could be that the spell is just making that easier to do...Almost like using gaseous form to pass through a miniscule crack in an object. Afterall magic>>>>>>>>>>>>>mundane.
#4 timlagor May 23, 2008 14:20:37	I would not allow anything to pass through a wall of force under any circumstances (unless I absolutely have to because it's crystal clear in a valid rules source for LG). Dimensional travel will get your round one however. I haven't read your Shadow Spells but I'm inclined to say that no shadow spells work in a dimensional lock
#5 Jay_Ibero_911 May 28, 2008 12:31:46	I would not allow anything to pass through a wall of force under any circumstances (unless I absolutely have to because it's crystal clear in a valid rules source for LG). Dimensional travel will get your round one however. I haven't read your Shadow Spells but I'm inclined to say that no shadow spells work in a dimensional lock Well the Shadow Form explicitly allows you to pass through a wall of force with a DC 20 escape artist check as long as you have at least 15 ranks. So it's just the shadow spell and dimensional lock issue I'm concerned with. For laughs, I'll see what custserv thinks about it. [EDIT] Wow, got a quick response My question is if spells of the shadow sub-school function in a dimensionally locked area. Specifically I want to know if the Shadow Form spell (SpC 183) would work. "Shadow: A shadow spell creates something that is partially real from extradimensional energy. Such illusions can have real effects. Damage dealt by a shadow illusion is real." "Dimensional Lock Abjuration Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 8 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a point in space Duration: One day/level Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes You create a shimmering emerald barrier that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like or psionic abilities. Once dimensional lock is in place, extradimensional travel into or out of the area is not possible. A dimensional lock does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell." It seems like it could work on the ground that only extradimensional travel is prevented, and dim lock doesn't block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Given that the Shadow Form spell when used to pass through solid objects isn't taking you to another dimension it seems it could work. On the other hand, if the shadow stuff is considered to be traveling to you from the shadow plane to cast shadow spells then it seems dimensional lock would block those. Shadow Form itself may not function if it is considered to be extradimensional travel. So I would like to know what works and what doesn't, and why. I'm considering using this in the Living Greyhawk campaign, so whatever conclusion you come to, if you could make it as thoroughly explained as possible it would be much appreciated. Greetings Thomas, Going specifically by the rules, Shadow Form is not stopped by Dimensional Lock. This is because Dimensional Lock only blocks out movement that involves extra dimensional travel. Shadow Form does not involve extra dimensional travel in any way, shape, or form.
#6 stonebasher May 28, 2008 16:43:38	while not 100% valid in LG, it is possible to pass through a wall of force with an epic DC 120 escape artist check You know, if you can make a DC 120 escape artist check at my table when I'm DMing, I'll let you go through a wall of force. Of course, being as nobody in the campaign who is a pc and currently active is a epic level character (that I know of,) it might be kind of difficult. Wes
#7 maesto May 29, 2008 1:51:08	A challenge! Ok, let's start with level 15, so 18 ranks. Rolling a d20, let's assume a 20 just because the dice like us today. That's 38. Hmm, still a fair way to go. Starting dex 20 (elf or halfling), 3 bumps, 1 inherent (I've seen enough access to the books), +10 from divine agility (cleric 5 spell), gets dex 34, which is +12. Ok, we're at 50 on the escape artist. 70 to go. Now we're getting into places where I can't remember things off the top of my head... Luckstone is +1 luck, Green Ioun Stone is +1 competence, I think Grease adds +10 but I can't remember what type, reduce person gives another +1 from dex. Hmm, still need help here. Another 50-something left... little help, guys?
#8 redfist May 29, 2008 2:09:56	Don't forget marshal auras! :D And Moment of Prescience for another +25 (assuming good CL boosts)
#9 maesto May 29, 2008 2:40:46	Don't forget marshal auras! :D And Moment of Prescience for another +25 (assuming good CL boosts) True, a good marshal aura can get a hefty bonus in there. Moment of Prescience not so, however - it's only on opposed skill checks.
#10 _metz_ May 29, 2008 2:47:31	I miss divine insight.
#11 timlagor May 29, 2008 12:26:16	Improvisation? -the bard spell (no idea what type the bonus is and getting it with other spells would be tricky too but it's +CL)
#12 magebeast May 29, 2008 22:57:45	Improvisation? -the bard spell (no idea what type the bonus is and getting it with other spells would be tricky too but it's +CL) It's a luck bonus, IIRC.
#13 umiskatonic May 29, 2008 23:53:45	It's a skill check, can you get 35 people to aid you? Failing that, maybe a bard with inspire competence Failing that, a favor that grants a ridulous modifier to a skill check?
#14 Black_Egg May 30, 2008 18:09:46	Going back to the OP's questions, I think you might also run into some intent-based rulings against any spell that is fairly explicit about pulling "stuff" from the Plane of Shadow into the World inside of a Dimensional Lock. If I was giving a RAW reading, I'd probably say that extradimensional attack forms would be stuff like...spells that were traversing dimensions in the process of hitting a target. But then you'd probably end up with some freakish kind of ruling saying that Magic Missile doesn't work in a Dimensional Lock. --- Wall of Force Escape Artist DC: Good try guys, but I think you're going to land 20-30 short. Check the MIC though...Third Eye items might have something spiffy. If there's any chance at all that Escape Artist can get you through a Wall of Force, does Freedom of Movement do it automatically?