2 3/4" and 3 1/2" shot shells - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

2 3/4" and 3 1/2" shot shells

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
slayer_5
May 10, 2010 11:46:43 Reading UltraModern firearms, it says that the 2 3/4 shells do -1 damage, and 3 1/2 shells do +1 damage.

Reading online about why 10 guage's are so uncommon, it mostly came up that the 3 1/2 inch shells do the same job as a 10 guage, but are compatible with more guns.

Would it make more sense then to stat the 3 1/2 inch shells as a 10 guage, or leave them as +1 damage?
#2
backstabbist
Jun 08, 2010 9:21:57 in game,
which is better at hitting skeet at 95' :
- Shotgun with a 30RI
- Sniper Bolt Rifle with a 100 RI

also, Buckshot vs BodyArmor = Fail
far moreso than Rifle vs Bodyarmor.
Sure, you can up the NIJ level to the point Rifles are defeated too, but for a NIJ2 or 3A I would prefer folks shot buckshot at me instead of rifles
#3
backstabbist
Jun 09, 2010 11:45:00 ???
No, my comments about BUCKSHOT having poor performance vs armor are very germain to the topic... which is getting better stat numbers for 12ga 3.5mag shells I presume

As such, you can apply AntiArmor penalties to the BUCKSHOT that diminish/vanish with the hv 3.5" shells

SO, as for what we can do to show 3.5 is better than 2.5 (other than generic "+1dmg"),
one way is to apply Shot antiarmor penalties (that really exist) that give the bigger shells an advantage

As for starting a thread about bolt actions,
what on earth are you talking about? I am talking about BUCKSHOT and you for some reason dont think a discussion of buckshot belongs in a shotgun shell thread? If you want to exclude comparing buckshot to rifle bullets, what are we allowed to compared buckshot to... Kitchen Tables? I'm not here talking about how a shotgun is a poor weapon, I demonstrated an obvious problem with Buckshot rules: They dont adequately reflect the point of firing SHOT at something- Its easier to hit with a pattern than with a single projectile, and that is not reflected well enough in the RAW shot (shotgun) rules .

Yes, the rules give a nod to easier hitting with Shot with the -1 RI penalty rather than -2,
but the rules fall flat in application due to the HALF nature of shotgun RIs compared to the RIs of .... Kitchen Tables???? (since you dont want to hear the bolt R word)

RAW did a lot of stuff wrong, for AGB and KISS
357mag = 9mm/38sp
375-416 class 2d12 Heavy Rifles dont exist under a 50BMG class 2d20(2d16) Personal Cannons
Shotgun rules suk
... and in this thread we can address taking some of the suk out of the Shot rules- like asking about "+1 Dmg" vs "Treat as 10ga" vs "other"

Thusly, if one uses a 'Fix Shotguns' solution one can incorporate the 3.5" advantages.
Take my PelletCount shotgun fix for example-
Based on a roll to see how many pellets of a pattern actually hit, it uses a set of rules to account for Range, Pelletsize, and PelletCount... but can simply include a modifier for HV mag shells.
Simple solution that both accounts for the 12ga 3.5 being better than 12ga 2.5, and 'Fixes Shotguns'. It also applies to may other posters 'Fix Shotguns' houserules: Why not fix shotguns the same time you fix one little shotgun facet like 3.5shells
#4
backstabbist
Jun 10, 2010 23:44:04 I'm discussing shot shells,
and you seem to be discussing me.

"Sorry backstabbist, but your comments have nothing to offer here"
I can only assume you judged my posts by a jury of 1.

The OP asked
Would it make more sense then to stat the 3 1/2 inch shells as a 10 guage, or leave them as +1 damage?
You gave your opinion, and you determined anyone not discussing YOUR opinion is off the OPs topic?
Cause MY opinion to the OP's question (not my opinion of your answer) is
'Neither, there are other options you can choose for your 12g / 10ga quandry'.

You gave your answer, a single ended answer. I got no problem with that.
I introduced a world of possibilities that we can discuss and refine to fit the OPs campaign/group,
including a veiled reference to read the work posters here have been doing with shotguns for the past 3 or 4 years.

Maybe the OP dont want to do it the way I do it,
maybe he dont like the way Johannixx does it either,
maybe he doesnt want to do it the Sqrll110 way either..... but maybe he DOES.
How could the OP see the Sqrll101 method and say "Yeah, I like that. I like it a lot" if he never gets told there was a Sqrll101 way by anyone?

There are more facets to shotguns than the one dimentional metric of Dmg=X.
By using one or more of those other facets one not only solves the OP's 12g vs 10ga situation,
but can solve other shot problems as well... and there is no shortage of RAW problems with shotguns

Remember, KISS The devil is in the details

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 slayer_5 May 10, 2010 11:46:43	Reading UltraModern firearms, it says that the 2 3/4 shells do -1 damage, and 3 1/2 shells do +1 damage. Reading online about why 10 guage's are so uncommon, it mostly came up that the 3 1/2 inch shells do the same job as a 10 guage, but are compatible with more guns. Would it make more sense then to stat the 3 1/2 inch shells as a 10 guage, or leave them as +1 damage?
#2 backstabbist Jun 08, 2010 9:21:57	in game, which is better at hitting skeet at 95' : - Shotgun with a 30RI - Sniper Bolt Rifle with a 100 RI also, Buckshot vs BodyArmor = Fail far moreso than Rifle vs Bodyarmor. Sure, you can up the NIJ level to the point Rifles are defeated too, but for a NIJ2 or 3A I would prefer folks shot buckshot at me instead of rifles
#3 backstabbist Jun 09, 2010 11:45:00	??? No, my comments about BUCKSHOT having poor performance vs armor are very germain to the topic... which is getting better stat numbers for 12ga 3.5mag shells I presume As such, you can apply AntiArmor penalties to the BUCKSHOT that diminish/vanish with the hv 3.5" shells SO, as for what we can do to show 3.5 is better than 2.5 (other than generic "+1dmg"), one way is to apply Shot antiarmor penalties (that really exist) that give the bigger shells an advantage As for starting a thread about bolt actions, what on earth are you talking about? I am talking about BUCKSHOT and you for some reason dont think a discussion of buckshot belongs in a shotgun shell thread? If you want to exclude comparing buckshot to rifle bullets, what are we allowed to compared buckshot to... Kitchen Tables? I'm not here talking about how a shotgun is a poor weapon, I demonstrated an obvious problem with Buckshot rules: They dont adequately reflect the point of firing SHOT at something- Its easier to hit with a pattern than with a single projectile, and that is not reflected well enough in the RAW shot (shotgun) rules . Yes, the rules give a nod to easier hitting with Shot with the -1 RI penalty rather than -2, but the rules fall flat in application due to the HALF nature of shotgun RIs compared to the RIs of .... Kitchen Tables???? (since you dont want to hear the bolt R word) RAW did a lot of stuff wrong, for AGB and KISS 357mag = 9mm/38sp 375-416 class 2d12 Heavy Rifles dont exist under a 50BMG class 2d20(2d16) Personal Cannons Shotgun rules suk ... and in this thread we can address taking some of the suk out of the Shot rules- like asking about "+1 Dmg" vs "Treat as 10ga" vs "other" Thusly, if one uses a 'Fix Shotguns' solution one can incorporate the 3.5" advantages. Take my PelletCount shotgun fix for example- Based on a roll to see how many pellets of a pattern actually hit, it uses a set of rules to account for Range, Pelletsize, and PelletCount... but can simply include a modifier for HV mag shells. Simple solution that both accounts for the 12ga 3.5 being better than 12ga 2.5, and 'Fixes Shotguns'. It also applies to may other posters 'Fix Shotguns' houserules: Why not fix shotguns the same time you fix one little shotgun facet like 3.5shells
#4 backstabbist Jun 10, 2010 23:44:04	I'm discussing shot shells, and you seem to be discussing me. "Sorry backstabbist, but your comments have nothing to offer here" I can only assume you judged my posts by a jury of 1. The OP asked Would it make more sense then to stat the 3 1/2 inch shells as a 10 guage, or leave them as +1 damage? You gave your opinion, and you determined anyone not discussing YOUR opinion is off the OPs topic? Cause MY opinion to the OP's question (not my opinion of your answer) is 'Neither, there are other options you can choose for your 12g / 10ga quandry'. You gave your answer, a single ended answer. I got no problem with that. I introduced a world of possibilities that we can discuss and refine to fit the OPs campaign/group, including a veiled reference to read the work posters here have been doing with shotguns for the past 3 or 4 years. Maybe the OP dont want to do it the way I do it, maybe he dont like the way Johannixx does it either, maybe he doesnt want to do it the Sqrll110 way either..... but maybe he DOES. How could the OP see the Sqrll101 method and say "Yeah, I like that. I like it a lot" if he never gets told there was a Sqrll101 way by anyone? There are more facets to shotguns than the one dimentional metric of Dmg=X. By using one or more of those other facets one not only solves the OP's 12g vs 10ga situation, but can solve other shot problems as well... and there is no shortage of RAW problems with shotguns Remember, KISS The devil is in the details