I want to have, for my character, a FAMAS and H&K Mk.23 SOCOM.
Given the stats for the guns (wiki them), I was thinking this:
FAMAS - Use the Steyr AUG stats (2d8 Ballistic, 20 Critical, 80 ft., S/A (selective fire), 30 Box, Large, 9 lb., DC 19, Res +2)
H&K Mk.23 SOCOM - Modified M1911 stats (2d6 Ballistic, 20 Critical, 30 ft., Semi-Automatic, 12 Box [was 7 box], Medium [was small], DC 18 [was 15], Res +2 [was Lic +1])
Seem good to you guys?
Anyway, both weapons are in the Ultramodern Firearms and the Weapon Locker books (I think).
Apart from that, since weapons in d20 Modern aren't very diverse, it looks pretty balanced. The FAMAS' range could be reduced a bit though - compared to the 80 ft. = 550 metres of the M16, the 450 metres of the FAMAS should be around 70 ft.
...That's right, 70 ft range increment, equals a MAX range of 350 metres - and the FAMAS' real life effective range is 450 metres...
The ranges in d20 Modern are clearly designed for short-ranged combat.
/rant.
Wouldn't the Mk.23 SOCOM be Mil (+3) since it is a military weapon?
Anyway, both weapons are in the Ultramodern Firearms and the Weapon Locker books (I think).
Apart from that, since weapons in d20 Modern aren't very diverse, it looks pretty balanced. The FAMAS' range could be reduced a bit though - compared to the 80 ft. = 550 metres of the M16, the 450 metres of the FAMAS should be around 70 ft.
...That's right, 70 ft range increment, equals a MAX range of 350 metres - and the FAMAS' real life effective range is 450 metres...
The ranges in d20 Modern are clearly designed for short-ranged combat.
/rant.
Okay, both of those modifications seem fine for me. While the range of the FAMAS will suffer and Black Martket-ing and/or Weapon Licensing the MK.23 will hurt my wallet, but it seems like since both are expensive weapons with costly ammo (5.56 NATO and .45 ACP) it seems fitting for them to cost money.
As for the range on the FAMAS, perhaps pulling a taboo from the "x10 increments" law that is never actually mentioned but put into play nonetheless is in order: 75 feet? That'd be close to 450m, I think.
If a new gun has a real range of 450m, and there is an existing crb/srd gun with 550m... then the new gun should get 450/550ths of the already statted guns RI. The new gun should get 82% of the existing guns RI of 80', so the new gun should get 65'
The word from on high is RI = 2/3 x Range'/10 (2Range/30).
Giving us 900m/30 = 30m ~ 90' for the Famas, but 1100m/30 ~110' for the m16... meaning once again we cant just fit math to the srb/srd dartboard statting system.
The OP stats for the mk23 SOCOM dont show the MW+1, 45+P chamber, nor Silencer/ThreadedBarrel.
Without the silencer/barrel it is a civilian Mark23, Lic(+1)
Without the 45+P chamber you wouldnt use the +P ammo for extra bang
Wiki & HK say the gun is match grade acurate, why is that not statted as MW+1
[INDENT]Wiki:
According to the Operators Manual,[1] there are few differences between the civilian Mark 23 and the government MK23. These differences are the slide engraving ("Mark 23" instead of "MK23 USSOCOM") and a barrel conforming to SAAMI headspace specifications.[/INDENT]
If you're gonna pay the PDC for the gun, stat all the features that make a difference in game.
Just pick a random gun in the core rulebook thats the same relative size and caliber and use those stats.
The ranges in d20 Modern are clearly designed for short-ranged combat.
Its because WotC in all their "wisdom" decided that if they didn't make it like that then melee would get left behind. Seeing as how melee actually leaves gunfighters in the dust in d20 Modern RAW its clear this was a poor design decision. I guess this is a legitimate worry considering in some games, namely RIFTS, its completely pointless to use anything BUT a gunfighter, but they clearly didn't think things through as all they did was make melee overpowered in comparison.
I usually just increase all the RIs to more realistic values. So what if the strong hero has to run straight at his opponent for an extra round before turning him into paste faster than the gunslinger can draw his weapon? He's just lucky I haven't implemented ranged AoOs yet...
Wouldn't the Mk.23 SOCOM be Mil (+3) since it is a military weapon?.
You can buy civilian versions of it without the supressor (not sure if it has the illuminator/laser sight combo) that are legal for anyone who can own handguns. Just like an other pistol, but bigger. And meaner looking. And with a higher magazine capacity than many .45's. So the ppistol itself is Licenced.
To buy one WITH the supressor, (or buy the supressor seperately) you're probably looking at a Restricted licence.
And as for the +P there a lot of guns that shoot +P. Beretta has 2 .45 +P on the market and for hi cap Springfield XD in .45 ACP if its power in an automatic pistol go for a .45 Cor-Bon it would be a special order for any .45 ACP.
+P is not a different cartridge it’s a different load that some old guns might not handle well.
is is a new and excessive load that standard guns are not rated to handle.
What happens when you use +P in a standard rated gun?
That depends on how far above the minimum spec the standard gun was manufactured. Much like a watch being water resistant to 100', that doesnt say when the water will get in, it says water wont get in if you are less than 100'. Maybe it will stay dry to 110, maybe 180, no way of knowing when it actually will leak other than the rating of it not leaking if less than 100.
The gun makers promisses the standard gun wont blow off your hand with standard ammo, nor suffer damage or excessive wear with standard ammo. Sure you can fire +P from a standard gun, but you do so at your own risk... from reducing the life of the gun from 500000 to 8000shots, or maybe blowing your hand off... the manufacturer has no claims or responsibility to keep your hand on if you used overpressure ammo.
Point I was making was that the gun IS rated/tested for +P ammo and the stats should reflect that. Whatever rules you use for +P or +P+ or+P+p+PP MightyManly MegaMagnum loads is up to your GM
(2d6 + 5d6Bal and 3d6Fire + 1d6Sonic within 30',
On any roll other than Natural20 the gun explodes and does 10d10 DoubleNoSave to shooter
)
The Fed says sound supressing toys are civillian Class2 (d20 Res+2).
States like CA say they are also Illegal(+4) in their state.
Sure a 1911 45 is just Lic+1... uh, you dont live in NYC do ya? d20Modern makes that NYC pistol the same as a fullauto AK or Uzi: Res+2 by city laws.
If d20 wanted to get into state & local PDC Restrictions, they would need a couple hundred lists of PDCs for all the different State & Local situations... like the difference between whats legal in LA County and City of LA vs Longbeach in LA county etc
You do want to study up on where all the schools churches etc are in town, so you dont make your Lic+1 turn into an Illegal+4 by taking 10 paces in the wrong direction and ending up around the corner & down the block but within 1000' of a school with a gun
oh, and for the love of Mike
dont even own a car if you have a gun... thats just too hard to keep track of when/where you are commiting felonies just going on a beer run. You even have to look up the Fish & Game laws because they got their laws on guns & cars as well.
Land of the free... yay
The .45 GAP would be a better choice or .45 Cor-Bon but they are hard to find. .45 GAP and .45 ACP are the same except for casing length.
.45 WM would work but I think it would be a special order rechamber it has a 72% higher velocity and 200% muzzle energy. I hate Winchester ammo it is very high in sulfur and carbon but they are not the only one to make this round.
Most .45 +P are 185 grain @1140 fps witch is not much hotter then 185 grain @1000 fps a “safe” non +P load. The casings are the same and most new guns are well with in there tolerances do to people reloading and legal issues. Besides were talking game here it will tack the stress just like a tough hero can tack full auto.
If there is such a difference what is the difference in 9mm Luger and 9mm Luger +P?
I use a 230 copper jacked hallow point with a pin it only has 875 fps but I have a 1980’s Jjuma and it’s my home gun. In compaction I use a TT33 made in Poland it’s chambered in the original 7.62X25 and almost as good 9mm but less then half the price.
Looking up state regulations is easy on the internet like Pennsylvania has no insurance requirement on cars or drivers. Vermont refused to enforce the Brady Bill
It depends on what state you are in. in the USA there a few states that magazine capacity is whatever you want 50 round 1911 mags are sold here
I wasn't referring to the sate laws, I was referring to what kinds of "Flat Bottom" magazines fit in the gun, and what the gun manufacturers are selling. You can get similar after-market mags for the Mark 23 Civilian model too, in places where they are legal. Even if H&K will only sell you 10 rounders. The Mark 23 holds 12 rounds in a typical mag, if I'm not mistaken.
Well, I don't think they sell anything more than a 10-round magazine for the Mk 23 to civilians, because we suck, and they hate us.
LOL. H&K, because you suck, and we hate you. No statement was ever so true.
They won't sell the 12 round Mk23 mags, and yet, H&K will sell the USP-45 mags that hold 12 rounds, no problem.
Doesn't matter to me much. The Mk23 sucks. It's way too big for what it does, has way too many controls, and the sights are crap--too tall and too narrow. The decocking lever is too big, and the safety lever is too small. For what is supposed to be a match grade gun, the stock trigger is only ho-hum.
The Mk23 I shot did absolutely nothing that my XD-45 couldn't do better, and the XD-45 holds 14 rounds, is smaller, simpler and costs a fifth of the price new-in-box. Ditto for the Glock 21, Tanfoglio Witness, CZ-97B, the S&W M&P, or the FN FNP-45. I even shoot my old 1948-era Colt 1911A1 better than the Mk23, and with 10-round Wilson mags, the capacity is the same.
Doesn't matter to me much. The Mk23 sucks. It's way too big for what it does, has way too many controls, and the sights are crap--too tall and too narrow. The decocking lever is too big, and the safety lever is too small. For what is supposed to be a match grade gun, the stock trigger is only ho-hum.
But it looks cool
.Especially with that Knights suppressor and a tac-light. They sure looked badass in Tears of the Sun.
I wasn't referring to the sate laws, I was referring to what kinds of "Flat Bottom" magazines fit in the gun, and what the gun manufacturers are selling. You can get similar after-market mags for the Mark 23 Civilian model too, in places where they are legal. Even if H&K will only sell you 10 rounders. The Mark 23 holds 12 rounds in a typical mag, if I'm not mistaken.
Were I live you can buy a P90 full auto if you deal with the fed first the state has no gun laws to prevent any gut there all federal laws here and H&K and FN will sell to any one not just governments if you have the paper work and it is legal they don’t care. Most people build there own do to the price difference $1000 to the fed and an extra $1000 or $2000 to H&K for the FA model.
Like when I lived in VA any nonfelon could pick up a pistol and a consoled carry the same day. If you knew were to go in Norfolk night vision FA MP5 and Sol Com from the SEAL teams. They would sell them at pawnshops.
Here is an easy read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License
Now a one time transfer of a full auto weapon is $1000 unless it has gone up.
To manufacturer and sell it is $3000 every 3 years. But there is a gross revenue close that is new to me.
There is also a manufacturing for personal use witch can be unstable and it would better to pay the $3000 to the ATF.
Now if you have all your paper work in order and ask H&K or FN for a gun like a P90 in FA they will sell it to you because you are now the same as any sheriff department all they have is a FFL# how do you think Black Water gets its FAs.
To wasatchdan
My question to you is have you ever left your home town? Do you even try to look any thing up or do you just assume that the world is as closed as your mind?
I literally laughed out loud
.
Great, the 4e boards level of civility is starting to carry over to the Modern board.
Somehow this came to mind. Kinda sad really, there used to be a higher caliber of gun nut around here. (See what I did there? HA!)
higher caliber of gun nut around here.
I never get into arguments on the internet, ever. Now this. Arrgh!
I must be getting crotchety in my old age.
I'm deleting my remarks. Apologies to one and all.
Yeah, I hear ya on that.
.45 WM would work but I think it would be a special order rechamber
good luck with that, tell us how it works out for ya
I have let the last few weeks of work carry over in to my life and I apologize to wasatchdan.
You can buy civilian versions of it without the supressor (not sure if it has the illuminator/laser sight combo) that are legal for anyone who can own handguns. Just like an other pistol, but bigger. And meaner looking. And with a higher magazine capacity than many .45's. So the ppistol itself is Licenced.
It's got a standard rail system, you can mount a much smaller, brighter, and more reliable laser and/or light on there. Both technologies have come a long ways since the SOOCOM Silly was passed off to the US Military
Well, I don't think they sell anything more than a 10-round magazine for the Mk 23 to civilians, because we suck, and they hate us.
Larry? Is that you?
Which is still more than the typical .45 autoloader, considering that many of the ones out there are clones of one of the 1911 models that hold either 7+1 or 8+1.
I'd say the 1911s are no longer in the majority. There are a lot of options out there for high capactiy 45acps, be it Springfield XD, H&K's more reasonable sized USP, Glock 21, etc. Plus plenty of double stack 1911 ala the para-ordinance P13.
What I am referring to is the department of the treasury. Chapter 44, firearms, federal firearms license.
Here is an easy read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License
Now a one time transfer of a full auto weapon is $1000 unless it has gone up.
To manufacturer and sell it is $3000 every 3 years. But there is a gross revenue close that is new to me.
There is also a manufacturing for personal use witch can be unstable and it would better to pay the $3000 to the ATF.
Now if you have all your paper work in order and ask H&K or FN for a gun like a P90 in FA they will sell it to you because you are now the same as any sheriff department all they have is a FFL# how do you think Black Water gets its FAs.
no.
not so.
#1 to get the types of FFLs that allow one to procure or create select fire weapons requires you to actually be in a business, not just owning to own. NO business = no license.
That being said, no need to have an FFL to own a full auto, you just need to jump through all the hoops and pay your $200 tax stamp 'transfer tax' (this has not changed since 1934, and won't be touched, for fear of backfiring and getting more lax restrictions)
However, thanks to the The Hughes Amendment you can only transfer weapons that were already registered on may 19 of 1986, so no P90 is going to be on there.
The only legal way to get a P90 full auto is to be a manufacturer of full auto or a firearms range owner or some other real, legitemate busness. And no, you can't just have a business in name only, it needs to be actively researching, buidling, or selling. When that business closes, it said weapons must be resold to other legetimate businesses or surrurendered to the BATF.
I could not find the one time transfer but I did know the year thing I had just forgot so good work akodo
The business as per law must be in a structure zoned for business and not with in 1000 feet of a school.
So what part of having a class 9 FFL won’t let you buy a full auto AK74, P90 or any thing else?
Get a class 10 and make AP ammo or a class 11 and import anything.
Now here is the problem as soon as you go shooting something up they will come rite to your business and if every thing isn’t in perfect order you will be in trouble “jail or worse”
there used to be a higher caliber of gun nut around here.
Gundam: 08th MS Team :D
that wee lil girl with the 20mm is a Medium creature using 2 hands and a support/mount to fire a Huge weapon.... textbook example of the d20 right way to do it. Without the support that gun would be too big for her to use.
Unless of course if that is a "highly modified" Ruger 10-22 and she is a halflling or something.... then it would be just fine as a Small creature with a Large weapon in 2hand & Support
Right,
that wee lil girl with the 20mm is a Medium creature using 2 hands and a support/mount to fire a Huge weapon.... textbook example of the d20 right way to do it. Without the support that gun would be too big for her to use.
Unless of course if that is a "highly modified" Ruger 10-22 and she is a halflling or something.... then it would be just fine as a Small creature with a Large weapon in 2hand & Support
Joke
.
*zing*
.
You
:P
Its a little girl imitating a 30m tall robot firing a 105mm cannon. :P
All we are is dust in the wind, dude... Dust. Wind. Dude. - Bill & Ted
How do you know that the 30' robot isnt immitating a picture he saw of the little girl with the 20mm?
Because the girl looks like a chemist from Final Fantasy Tactics, and the "FFT" on the shield would support that idea. Gundam: 08th MS Team, is older than FFT. /nerdmode :D
Was there an image of a 128' robot with a 20"RailcarGun that they both saw and chose to immitate? In the world of largebore WP, when is art immitating life vs life immolating art?
That I can't prove :P
if that really was "Gundam: 08th MS Team",
shouldnt the shield have a Blue Screen Of Death to more accurately portray the MS aspect of the team? Or does the shield double as a mousepad ;)
Hold on,
if that really was "Gundam: 08th MS Team",
shouldnt the shield have a Blue Screen Of Death to more accurately portray the MS aspect of the team? Or does the shield double as a mousepad ;)
That gun and shield....
Gundam: 08th MS Team :D
Not necessarily "high caliber", the scale might be off.
This thing is clearly equipped with a .15 caliber gun after all (Start from 6:30-ish). For all we know, that's a .45!
clearly documenting the different scales standing in front of a hedge/bushes
128' robot with a 20"RailcarGun
LargeMech for 40mm autocannons
Lil Girl Powerarmor & 20mm ATR
If I could do a widescreen capture we prbably could have seen the Pixie with AK47 farther left off screen.:P