Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nix4 Jul 18, 2008 11:00:29	Greetings All, I've combined some existing SRD Armor rules and created a system for making advanced personal armor. These armors have both damage reduction and equipment bonsues. This is a system where you can build your own armor suits for your campaign as needed. It also uses the mecha armor rules for augmenting the suits with additional DR (at a price however). http://sites.google.com/site/d20futurecampaign/new-d20-rules/advanced-personal-armor I would appreciate any and all feedback on these rules, as I'm using them in my own campaign and am interested in balance issues.
#2 tema69 Jul 18, 2008 11:26:03	"Sorry, the page (or document) you have requested does not exist. Please check the address and try again." ...fail. :D
#3 nix4 Jul 18, 2008 11:43:58	Okay thanks for the response..I changed the URL.
#4 tema69 Jul 18, 2008 12:10:55	Ok. I'll look at it ASAP. I have a system like this too, based on the d20 Mecha SRD.
#5 nix4 Jul 18, 2008 12:44:21	What bothered me was the SRD dosnt have armor with both equipment bonuses and damage reduction. I can understand that for d20 Modern but for d20 Future it kinda fails. So, for more advanced armored soldiers and such I combined and created a system to build your own suits sticking as close to the SRD as possible. The Mecha Armor is an accessory so if you choose a suit, and you want more damage reduction you can get it, just costs more etc...same rules as mecha with some of the values cut in half. I wanted to grab that stuff and post it directly here, but they dont allow HTML here so my tables would have to be rebuilt..yuk!
#6 tema69 Jul 18, 2008 14:59:54	Nonono... d20 Mecha SRD. Not the MSRD. It's a weapon/vehicle/armour/gadget creation system that is compatible with pretty much any d20 product. It only lacks a bit when it comes to small-arms and personal armour, being originally developped for Mechas, Planes, Tanks, etc... There was a thread here, a while ago (before the reshuffle), with some additional houserules for the d20 Mecha SRD. Qualities and Restrictions for Weapons. See if you can dig it up if you want. Anyway, I've looked at your stuff, it seems very good for RAW d20 Future, although I am not a fan of Armour giving Defence bonuses, I (and my group) prefer Damage Reduction. We also use armour inserts (you know, a ballistic plate, etc...). One thing you should think of, is beware of only having better armour at higher PLs, better armour can be achieved by adding more weight and encumbrance (EOD suits, for example). I had a friend who played a character wearing pretty much a ballistic full-plate. He couldn't run, but he was almost imune to pistol rounds and low-calibre weapons. You should look at Blood & Guts: Military Procedures (a few bucks), or simply Blood & Guts: Armour as Damage Reduction (free), both .pdf files that can be bought on websites like rpgobjects.com, etc... Anyway, if you have a look at the d20 Mecha SRD (google it), I'll post my stuff. Note: d20 Mecha SRD does not necessarily involve Mecha's/Giant Robots nor Manga/Anime (another guy I talked about this with was horrified by it, as he thought it was meant for d20 BESM - Big Eyes Small Mouth, an anime system.).
#7 nix4 Jul 18, 2008 15:08:58	Okay thanks for the feedback. I glanced at the Mecha SRD and I think was worried as well by how anime it was. I've used Mekton from R.Talsorian in the past and was pleased with that system since Battletech's view of mecha was too primitive for my taste. I will check that SRD out.
#8 tema69 Jul 18, 2008 16:59:20	The creators of the d20 Mecha SRD (guardians of order) 's website seem to be down. Now that I think of it, I remember hearing that it is permanently down. So unless you have already downloaded the file, PM me your email adress, and I'll send the files to you.
#9 Skrittiblak Jul 18, 2008 18:00:45	Some nice stuff - I had a flic through your whole CORE campaign setting. Looks really neat.
#10 nix4 Jul 18, 2008 18:18:19	Thanks, there is allot I hope to clean up and post here...but much of it is not formatted and contains mechanics from other systems etc.. Is this the URL to the Mecha d20 System? Looks Like I got a copy already... http://sites.google.com/site/d20futurecampaign/Home/files
#11 tema69 Jul 19, 2008 3:12:39	It is, indeed. You only need to read through page 15 to 42, the rest isn't necessary to understand the armour creating system.
#12 Luis_Carlos Jul 19, 2008 6:08:19	Do you rebember del film "Iron Man", or the soldiers from HALO videogame? Here it´s the reality; the trojan http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/15/project-grizzly-inventor-crafts-real-world-halo-suit-for-militar/ ----- The Human Universal Load Carrier (HULC™) is the third generation exoskeleton system from Berkeley Bionics. It incorporates the features of ExoHiker™ and ExoClimber™, exhibiting two independent characteristics: 1) It takes up to 200 pounds without impeding the wearer (Strength Augmentation) 2) It decreases its wearer's metabolic cost (Endurance Augmentation). ------- The bionic exoskeletons are now reality. http://www.berkeleybionics.com/Unrestricted/HULC.html http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/25/sarcos-military-exoskeleton-becomes-a-frightening-reality/ Sarcos This is real tecnology. I´m not talking about science-fiction. Are you interested?
#13 tema69 Jul 19, 2008 6:54:43	This is old news. I remember seeing this like 3-4 years ago. But it's really cool nonetheless. The US Army has started Exoskeleton projects too. The Japanese are building Exoskeletons to help disabled and elderly people walk.
#14 nix4 Jul 19, 2008 7:34:39	Nice pic. But I make a seperation between advanced personal armor and exoskeltons. None of the material I posted augments stats. This is just armor. However, there is a PDF that I made off a terrific post here regarding armor, weapons, exoskeletons and nanotechnology called Black Box. I rebuilt it and made a PDF (as I do with most things from here). http://sites.google.com/site/d20futurecampaign/Home/files This PDF provides a range of exoskeletons that could be easily combined with the advanced personal armor here to make a something short of a mini mecha!
#15 tema69 Jul 19, 2008 7:36:36	Mecha and Power Armour is pretty much the same. The Black Box is a great addition to any futuristic game.
#16 twilight_templar Jul 19, 2008 15:25:09	Actully Power Armor and Mecha are different in afew ways. Compare a Starcraft Marine And a Mechwarrior, lets say Asp or Couger What are the differences, or if Mechwarrior is to primitive, step up to Gundam (Personally I mix the blockier build of Mechwarrior with the body shape and power of Gundam to make a more realistic Mecha) Size Weapon capabilities Power source differentials Tech level overall But essentially they are the same purpose on different scales, walking tanks
#17 tema69 Jul 19, 2008 15:51:20	I know a .22 pistol and a .50 M2HB aren't the same thing. I know Power Armour and Mecha aren't the same thing. But both .22 pistols and .50 machineguns work the same way (more or less). And both Power Armour and Mecha work the same way (by augmenting the user's strength, adding weapons' systems, armour, etc...). And of course, Power Armour is 'smaller' than mechas. But how would you build a Medium-size Mecha? As a Power Armour, right? So, what I'm saying is, it should pretty much use the same rules. But you guys are new around here. There used to be loads of threads about how f*cked up the RAW d20 Future mecha system is, and CyberDave did a good job fixing it. There were also some threads about Power Armour = Medium Sized Mecha / Large Power Armour = Mecha.
#18 twilight_templar Jul 20, 2008 10:33:00	Actully I was here when we had all that extra stuff, all the vehicle conversions and stuff even Starcraft d20 conversion. I have to admit I sometimes find custom built systems are better than the book ones.
#19 tema69 Jul 20, 2008 11:46:03	So, you've read the d20 Future "Medium Sized Mecha" and "Power Armour" and "Iron Man" threads, back when we had a d20 Future forum? Alright, then I guess you know what I mean.
#20 twilight_templar Jul 20, 2008 14:55:10	Yep, and I wish we had all of those still It was better that way. things may be different in all but a sword and a gun are the same in the sense that, they were made to cause pain
#21 tema69 Jul 20, 2008 15:42:17	Okay, what is the difference, then, between a Space Marine Terminator Power Armour and a say a Tau XV8 Crisis Battlesuit. The first is Medium, the second is Large. The first can sport 1 or 2 weapons, often heavy (Chaingun/Rockets/Thunderbolter and Power Fist/Chainfist), whereas the second can have up to three Heavy Weapons (Chaingun, Rocket Pod, Plasma Cannon, etc...) and a variety of other equipment, as well as a jump-pack. Both systems rely on enhanced strength and endurance, heavy weapons, and armour. What is the real difference? Size. Because the bigger your Mech/Power Armour, the more stuff you can integrate in it/put on it. I hope you know WH40k, otherwise this post is pretty useless. If you don't know what I'm talking about, google image "Space Marine Terminator" and "Tau XV8 Crisis Suit" to get an idea of what I'm talking about.
#22 twilight_templar Jul 21, 2008 9:04:30	for one thing I have my own Tau army and I play Dawn of War, therefore I know what you are sayin. The Crisis Battlesuit is a higher tech grade as in it has enhanced sensory systems and holds overall more ammunition than the terminator power armor but the terminator power armor can take more of beating generally, but is slower and more cumbersome. There is a fine line between many of Warhammer 40k's many heavy combat armors and tech levels.
#23 tema69 Jul 21, 2008 9:34:59	Okay okay, since you know Tau, I'll change the comparison. What is the difference between a Stealth suit (the original one, the new one is probably Large) and a Crisis Suit? The amount of weapons and equipment that can be fitted to it, that's all.
#24 twilight_templar Jul 21, 2008 11:46:16	Well, the major difference is the fact that the Stealth Suit can only manage one real combat weapon, and 1 long range support system like a grenade launcher. But the Crisis Battle Suit can use 2 major combat weapons and a pair of missile pods, as well as have jump jets like the stealth suit, the thing that makes the stealth suit so deadly is that when armed properly you get stealth anti armor soldiers that cannot be attacked. Rip up tanks in seconds and never get caught. The Crisis Suit Sports more Armor also than the stealth Suit and the Stealth suit in more agile. Oh and the thing about the stealth suit being large it is more on an enlarged medium, so it functions as large if it is beneficial like powerful build, while the crisis suit is large.
#25 tema69 Jul 21, 2008 12:05:46	Yeah, agreed. The new gen. stealthsuit are probably Powerful Build Medium, and not Large. So, all in all, the difference between the Medium Sized Power Armour Stealth Suit and the Large Mecha Crisis Suit is: a different number of weapons (more on the big one), and a different thickness of armour (thicker on the big one). Of course, the stealth suit has stealth, but that's just gadgets and equipments in d20 Modern. Is there any difference in the way they fight (disregard stealth, as it is not relevant for the comparison between mech and power armour)? Move? etc... The difference between a stripped down Stealth Suit (Power Armour) and a stripped down Crisis Suit (Mecha) is the same difference as between a 4x4 LAV and a 8x8 IFV. Kinda like the SdKfz 221 vs. the SdKfz 231. The first is lighter, more agile and mobile, while the second is more heavily armed (20mm cannon & MG34/42 while the 221 only has an MG34/42) and armoured (8-15mm while the 221 only has 5-8mm). There is a difference. But is the difference big enough that a 221 driver can't drive a 231? They fight the same way, the 231 is just more hardy and powerful. You see what I mean?
#26 twilight_templar Jul 21, 2008 14:17:20	I do, and if you want the real difference of how Power armor and Mecha Fight, here it is Power armor focus's on a single soldier and giving him enough fire power, so you can get many of them and they all will last awhile. But the mecha is harder to build and train to use, piloting takes time and effort to become good at, as the power armor is an extension of the person, a mecha is humanoid tank. Someone with hardly no training could be efficient enough, but a mecha pilot with no skill would be wrecking into things and firing his weapon like a monkey on speed, hardly any hand eye coordination. So you can get alot more soldiers and they can be more effective with Power Armor but you can get less mecha for more money and time to get even better soldiers.
#27 tema69 Jul 21, 2008 14:22:34	I guess many mecha are powered from within a cockpit like a tank. That way you are right. But how about combat? Isn't a mecha just a big, heavy, thicker armoured version of power armour? Is the difference big enough to warrant a completely new system for its use?
#28 nix4 Jul 22, 2008 11:32:59	My personal armor thread has now become a mecha thread! NoooO!!OOo Personal armor = Unassisted and unpowered armor!! Well I'm chalking this document up as GOOD and will provide more in the near future to the public. Thanks everyone for the feedback.
#29 tema69 Jul 22, 2008 12:29:05	Yea, I'm sorry for derailing your thread, Nix. Your stuff is cool and useful.