I decided to make an economic gap in my setting and to do this I did the following:
Upper class people use the standard weath roll, representing loans, credit and available cash (etc).
Lower class people use a direct currency economy, without the right to credit or loans.
So I was monkying around with something to use for the poor classes. d20 Apoc introduces a nifty system for bartering, but that doesn't work with this setting either. I came up with this:
The value of an item is based on what tier it falls into. An item with a DC of 1-7 multiplies the cost by 1. 8-15 is x15, 16-23 is x30, 24-31 is x45, and so on. Example: A penlight with DC3 is 3 credits. A leather jacket with DC10 is 150 credits. A Baretta 93R with DC18 is 540 credits, and so on. This is only a direct translation of random goods, and availability and vendor stance will affect it. Many expensive things might not even be publicly sold, which would make the price pretty much what the vendor asks for it.
To determine starting credits, you roll 4d10x2 and add twice your wealth bonus due to profession. This is your budget for starting goods, and must be spent right away. Any leftover is wasted. After starting, you roll a d20 x your wealth bonus due to profession and count this as your starting cash. Cut this into 1/3 if your character is not currently employed.
It's crude and not really develpoed yet, but I thought I'd bring it up.
IN ALL LIKELY HOOD I WILL JUST ESTABLISH COSTS FOR ITEMS AND WORK UP A WAY FOR PLAYERS TO EARN INCOME BASED ON THEIR ACTIONS.
What systems have you guys used instead of the standard?
Also, why can I not use quote tags?
M.
Dont try to attrib the quote, use a plain Quote tag then manually add the attrib as the first line of quoted text
(quote)
(b) From BillyBob: (/b)
Howdy Y'all
(/quote)
I never liked the wealth system, so I usually just assigned actual cash value to items, and gave players actual money.
But if you wanted to show a players position in society (upper, lower, middle classes etc) you could simply create a sort of cash cushion. Think of an overdraft feature in a bank account. The bank allows you to overdraft by 500 dollars, knowing you'll pay it back. So, depending on the characters position is society, you can alter their overdraft potential, thus giving them a higher spending limit.
With the Wealth system, you could give them a bonus on the DC check, or with an actual paper money system, just an additional 500 credits they can overspend, and pay back later.
So in part, the question is: how real do you want your gaming economy to be? Should it replicate the obvious inequities of the current economic system, or should it re-present the fantasy of the "American dream" that we've just watched collapse and start leaking radiation? Your call.
"the "American dream" that we've just watched collapse and start leaking radiation"
oh SNAP!!! Nice allusion on that one.
Like I've said: We calls em like we sees em and dont sugar coat it
I decided I'd go with the wealth system anyways, and just start "low class" players at less than full starting bonus. A good deal of "expensive" stuff can't be bought down there anyways.
Good point on the crack-addiction that is credit cards. I actually made the poor not have them simply because of the crysis we have now; essentially, there's a social aversion to issuing credit to the poor -- you might never get your money back. Also, there are no private companies, only a single public one: the government.
M.
True. 2d4 + wealth should be good enough for starting out. I have room for richer characters, too.
M.
So, will we have the briefcase problem under these alternate rules?
Not if we nuke the Briefcase Homeworld.
Then the Breifcase threat will be eliminated and we can get on with out lives in without concern over Briefcases
What's this briefcase problem?
M.
I posted this in the "whats broken" thread:
Random Wealth idea: Both.
Everything has a money value and an associated PDC. Except the Wealth score will now be called the Credit score, and should be modified so it will not be able to increase nearly as easily. This way if a player wants to purchase something via credit they can, or if they have cash on hand they can use that too. Also makes it easier for DMs to hand out briefcases of money as rewards.
Would need a lot of work to implement though.
The Briefcase Problem is what happens when characters find/get a briefcase full of money.
+1Wealth doent equal +1Wealth:
Jimmy The Squeeler opens the case, sees $PDC14 and would gain lots of Wealth score,
however, BIgAL says Jimmy got the last briefcase and this one goes to Princess.
Princess takes possesion of the $PDC14 in the briefcase and gains no Wealth cause she is already rich. That money then ceases to exist, It is assumed into Princesses Wealth score as a +0Wealth transaction.
+1Wealth is both $50 and $5000:
Jimmy looks in the +1Wealth award briefcase and sees $50,
hands it to Princess who looks in the +1Wealth briefcase and sees $5000.
The Briefcase Reward really isn't a problem. I use it all the time in my campaign. There are two tricks to this:
1) Set a reasonable purchase DC that represents the value of the reward. The PCs can "sell" their reward for a Wealth bonus increase.
2) You need a way to deal with how splitting cash affects the purchase DC. I'm a fan of the "double quantity means a +2 modifier" principle.
Let's say three PCs capture the Briefcase. The Briefcase has a purchase DC of 20. Split three ways, the GM rules that each share is worth an effective purchase DC 17 (two shares is 18 each, four shares is 16 each following the x2 is +2 principle).
The destitute character with Wealth bonus +1 sells his share, increasing his Wealth bonus by +2d6+1.
The middle-class character with Wealth bonus +15 gets a +2 increase.
The filthy rich aristocrat with Wealth bonus +30 gets a +1 increase.
-DF
+1Wealth is both $50 and $5000:Jimmy looks in the +1Wealth award briefcase and sees $50, hands it to Princess who looks in the +1Wealth briefcase and sees $5000.
In this case, it might be the Mushroom Problem.
Thanks for filling me in. This is a problem, as my characters are currently not going to be "employees" anywhere (because it impedes adventure!), and will rely on "briefcases of money" to keep their adventures going.
M.
The Briefcase Reward really isn't a problem. I use it all the time in my campaign. There are two tricks to this:
1) Set a reasonable purchase DC that represents the value of the reward. The PCs can "sell" their reward for a Wealth bonus increase.
2) You need a way to deal with how splitting cash affects the purchase DC. I'm a fan of the "double quantity means a +2 modifier" principle.
Let's say three PCs capture the Briefcase. The Briefcase has a purchase DC of 20. Split three ways, the GM rules that each share is worth an effective purchase DC 17 (two shares is 18 each, four shares is 16 each following the x2 is +2 principle).
The destitute character with Wealth bonus +1 sells his share, increasing his Wealth bonus by +2d6+1.
The middle-class character with Wealth bonus +15 gets a +2 increase.
The filthy rich aristocrat with Wealth bonus +30 gets a +1 increase.
Do that Split & Sell again, but start with a PDC18 case of money (4way split pdc14):
Poorman Wealth1 gains 2d6
AverageJoe Wealth14 gains +0
Princess Wealth30 gains +0
Do that Split & Sell once more, but start with a PDC27 case of money (4way split pdc23):
Poorman Wealth1 gains 3d6+1 (can make Poorman 1 + 19 =20Wealth... 5points richer than Joe)
AverageJoe Wealth14 gains +1
Princess Wealth30 gains +1
You are an evil evil man 
.
How is 18 split 4 ways to equal 14?
M.
Do that Split & Sell again, but start with a PDC18 case of money (4way split pdc14):
Poorman Wealth1 gains 2d6
AverageJoe Wealth14 gains +0
Princess Wealth30 gains +0Do that Split & Sell once more, but start with a PDC27 case of money (4way split pdc23):
Poorman Wealth1 gains 3d6+1 (can make Poorman 1 + 19 =20Wealth... 5points richer than Joe)
AverageJoe Wealth14 gains +1
Princess Wealth30 gains +1
Last I checked, you can't gain or lose 3d6 wealth from any kind of purchase. The maximum is 2d6, from something 16 points or more greater than the wealth bonus. 11-15 points higher than the wealth bonus is 1d6. In the first example, poorman would gain 1d6. In the second example, poorman would gain 2d6+1. If he rolls as high as he can, he'd have 7 and 14 wealth, respectively. The average result would put him at 4-5 and 9 wealth, respectively.
How is 18 split 4 ways to equal 14?
M.
According to the core rulebook, purchase DC 18 is equivalent to $1200. 1200/4 = 300. $300 would be either 13 (equivalent to $275) or 14 (equivalent to $350).
Do that Split & Sell again, but start with a PDC18 case of money (4way split pdc14):
Poorman Wealth1 gains 2d6
AverageJoe Wealth14 gains +0
Princess Wealth30 gains +0Do that Split & Sell once more, but start with a PDC27 case of money (4way split pdc23):
Poorman Wealth1 gains 3d6+1 (can make Poorman 1 + 19 =20Wealth... 5points richer than Joe)
AverageJoe Wealth14 gains +1
Princess Wealth30 gains +1Last I checked, you can't gain or lose 3d6 wealth from any kind of purchase. The maximum is 2d6, from something 16 points or more greater than the wealth bonus. 11-15 points higher than the wealth bonus is 1d6. In the first example, poorman would gain 1d6. In the second example, poorman would gain 2d6+1. If he rolls as high as he can, he'd have 7 and 14 wealth, respectively. The average result would put him at 4-5 and 9 wealth, respectively.
unless he took the heir occupation....then it would be 10
Wealth rolls are wonderfully crap.
M.
How much Wealth is needed to own a small nation?
"How much Wealth is needed to own a small nation?"
The same Wealth score that it takes to buy a Glock a day for a couple months
.... well, a Glock or a 737(with a Glock under each seat), they both have the same reduction to a billionair's Wealth score
"How much Wealth is needed to own a small nation?"
The same Wealth score that it takes to buy a Glock a day for a couple months
.... well, a Glock or a 737(with a Glock under each seat), they both have the same reduction to a billionair's Wealth score
Either way, you're getting an explosion, so I don't think it matters much 
.
So do we really have any alternatives? Like, at all? Or even a good starting point?
M.
Just use cash.
If the players want to get credit for their chars
ask them what they will put down onthe credit app under Employer Address and Salary.
Seems guys that all 8hr a day they are allowed to do stuff is spent Adventuring (or Healing)
are NOT at work earning a paycheck.
We need to buld this boat to get off this island before we starve,
but the 3 days of food will run out long before we can spend the required 48hr of group crafting time for the boat
because at the end of 8hr Crafting each day we have to stop working
and just sit & stare at the boat, the island, & each other
We need to buld this boat to get off this island before we starve,
but the 3 days of food will run out long before we can spend the required 48hr of group crafting time for the boat
because at the end of 8hr Crafting each day we have to stop working
and just sit & stare at the boat, the island, & each other
A bit of a nitpick here, but D20 Modern Crafting rules allow you to work 12 hours a day without any penalty. You can work more than that if you're willing to risk becoming fatigued.
Alright, assuming I'm using cash, I can make up some fair prices. But how much would a starting character get in money? As in, how would one translate wealth score + roll over into a reasonable amount of beginning cash?
M.
For actual purchases of equipment and items such as clothing, weapons, etc. I plan to use actual cash values based on real life prices.
For the Profession Skill I plan to use a modified version of the typical rofession checks of D&D and SW:
Profession Skill
Check: You can practice your profession and make your check result (x15+ranks in profession) in dollars. This is a dedicated week of work. (I am considering adjusting this based on starting occupations as well. With my player base this won't be a problem, they aren't familiar with any d20.)
Retry: Cannot be retried. You are stuck with the total of your roll.
Special: You may take 10 but you may not take 20. Having 5 or more ranks in a specific Profession may provide you a +2 synergy bonus on related skill checks. For example, a character with 5 or more ranks in Profession (computer programmer) could get a +2 synergy to Computer Use check in certain situations.
Time: When you are using Profession to make a living, the check requires a week of dedicated work. A check to accomplish a specific task is usually a full-round action.
With 4 ranks in a Profession, you gain your check result (say 15) times 15+4 (your ranks) = money gained.
15 x 19 = 215 dollars that week.
Most people, especially fresh out of high school, make about this at minimum wage. With adjustments based on occupation, (and a friendly dose of RPing, not metagaming) this system should work well.
Chances are most characters will be given or issued some forms of equipment (firearms, false ID, armor, etc.) by any organization they work for, such as Department-7.
This is just the start of my tweaking, I welcome any ideas and criticisms.