Thanks for any advice.
If we put UberDude with his LaserBeamEyes, Bulletproofiness, Uncrushableness, Unburnableness, and general imunity to any harm except for his one weakness: Exposure to concentrated Fullerene.... if we put him up against a reinforced battalion with artillery support...
He would get about 100XP for completeing the task of comitting Battalioncide.
There was never any real risk of harm.
It would be like trying to get 40XP for each Rice Crispie I ate this morning... no threat of failure.
So do we have to just bump up the LA of UberDude like doing a monster as a character?
Each different type of Super gets a different LA?
Cause UberDude would be a far better super than AngstGirl with her ability to spread her WorryField and SocialAcceptenceIssues Ray
How does a supers game deal with CR & EL of fights?
I'm not sure if that question is rhetorical or not.
But M&M starts characters out at "Level 10" and doesn't give XP, in a traditional sense. It allows "normal" people below level 10 (usually below level 5, iirc) or so. But M&M is a bad example, because of the way it deviates from Modern. So fights are kind of handled the same way they are in d20 - on a relative scale with the PCs.
I really can't remember SAS d20 very well, but I do recall not liking it. And I can't remember why. I know it replaced the Modern Core classes, and that I didn't like. And I think there was some bad mixing of the Tri-Stat system, too.
I'd still have it based on gaining ability thru leveling,
probably as a Talent Tree for each super ability. Resistances like Bulletproofiness could start as DR of 10 and bump up 5 each time that talent is taken. Same with gaining super Attribs like Strength or Int: Start at +8 and then +4 each time after. Just make up a talent tree for each super thing, and state that its a Permanent Talent Tree... any class level that grants a Talent can use it for their super talent/talents.
If you level up classes that dont have Talents, then you dont gain any supertude those levels, you maintain the degree of superocity till you take levels that grant Talents.
Some campaigns may allow open growth, Start with one superism and can gain new types of superism along the way.... or a fixed character that has to pick 2, 3 or like 5 superisms to start and just improves the supertude of those picks as he levels.
Just staple on the SuperTalents and starting supertude and use the Modern CRB classes.
First, the D20 system isn't really good for running a Comic book style Super Hero game since comics run at the speed of narrative. Systems that stat out characters in clearly defined ways just don't capture the essence of being a super, in my experience. I actually prefer the Story Teller system for a comic book feel since the heroic capabilites are less clearly defined and a greater emphasis is placed on the narrative. Exalted is very easy to apply to a comic book game.
Having said that, I have run several games with characters with super powers. I differentiate a super power game from a super hero game in that super heroes follow specific story conventions. They have certain codes of conduct and a suspension of disbelief is necessary to allow for a sane person to reconcile certain facts of a comic book world. My super powers game is more like a Tom Clancy story in which the protagonists happen to have abilities not explainable by conventional science. Should one such character run around in spandex outfits, they will be the subject of ridicule. My heroes wear Kevlar and use guns even when they have powers.
Should you want to run a game with super powers but not a comic booky feel, I recommend just running a modern game and fudge the powers. For example, One character wanted to like Namor. So it was easy to give him water breating, some natural AC and super strength (30). For that strength, I ruled that anything above 18 added to lifting capacity and damage but not bonuses to hit. For the person who wanted human torch powers, I created a dice pool. The PC had a dice capacity of 10 D6 that regenerated at 1d6 per round. The PC could spend a feat to get special abilities with the power but started out with the ability to just expend the dice in a stream. Eventually we added flying at a cost of 3d6 per round, a heat shield of 2d6 per, etc. and increased the regeneration. The character learned not to expend all his dice at once since it left him pretty vulnerable, but he could still Nova if he chose to.
either way, I hope you have fun
Specifically designed as an expansion pack for d20M.
Has level-up and XP rules that create rough equivalencies for standard d20M characters.
Contains 13 superhero classes (done up as Core classes from D&D), as well as rules for using d20M Base/Advanced classes.
Uses a point-buy system for powers that layers snugly on top of d20M rules so that you can, if you like, add them to even a pre-existing d20M game.
Fully compatible with both d20M and D&D.
Finally, say it with me: free!
You have some interesting concepts, btw, penchant. I agree that true supers cannot be attained within the scope of the rules as written. But some of your ideas are intriguing.
So Phoenix can be used on top of (not a replacement for) the Core Rulebook? Kind of in the same vein as Sidewinder: Recoiled (if you've seen that)? If so, that would interest me.
That's the idea, yes. We designed specifically as an add-on, not a standalone. There are a few divergences from standard rules, which I explain in the document, but it's basically straight-up d20M. Go ahead and download the file, if you're interested. It's only a few meg, and it's free!
Oh come on! Nobody mentions Phoenix? ;)
I was going to do just that but you beat me to it.
Here's a more detailed list of what's in Phoenix.
But M&M starts characters out at "Level 10" and doesn't give XP, in a traditional sense. It allows "normal" people below level 10 (usually below level 5, iirc) or so.
Actually, this is not correct. PL 10 is simply a baseline for a team on the power level of the X-men. Lower PLs would be used either for less experienced heroes (e.g, the original new mutants) or even experienced heroes whose attacks and defenses are not as high.
Personally, the one thing I don't want to use d20M for is superheroes- my supers game of choice is M&M. However, for d20M supers, I would check out B&V. The companies other products that I have seen are among my favorite d20M products and I have heard good things from d20M players that use it.
I've been looking for something similar for a supers genre - something that will not replace the Modern core, but will add to it and make it a supers game. I might be asking a bit too much, though.
Thanks for any advice.
Anyway, it takes some creative re-writing of the fluff in some places, and there's some heroes your're going to have a hard time re-creating, but we had fun the last time we did this when my brother was the GM and we're having fun now.
You want Blood and Vigilance from RPGObjects.
Ya know, I went out and got myself a copy of that, after having worked on Phoenix for three years, and perhaps I'm married to my way of doing thing, but B&V just didn't impress me. It's kind of short. Has a fairly clunky power system, if I recall correctly, and didn't seem to be capable of supporting all the options I wanted. I'd play M&M for the support and splat books, but B&V seemed to be insufficient on its own and not terribly well supported as its own entity, although it would be fair to say that RPGObjects has so much stuff out there that it's effectively a supported product.
Actually, this is not correct. PL 10 is simply a baseline for a team on the power level of the X-men. Lower PLs would be used either for less experienced heroes (e.g, the original new mutants) or even experienced heroes whose attacks and defenses are not as high.
Unless they changed something since the last time I looked at it, I thought that was the way it was - the "default" was PL 10. Normally, characters started at level 10. Lower powered supers (non-supers, grim and gritty types, etc.) started lower than PL 10. A ninja or superspy might start at PL 7, a cop might be PL 5, and a professor might be PL 2 (at best). Most average Joes would be PL 1 or so. The Punisher might be PL 7-9. I thought that's kind of what I said.
I think you pretty much said the same thing I did, just in a different way.
Also, I'm so sorry, I'm an English teacher and I study comics for a living (not a good living, but you know) so I can't not point this out: those aren't comic-themed images. They're superhero-themed images (comics != superheroes), and they're not themed images, really. They're images of superheroes and villains.
I know. I'm sorry. Pedantry is just in my blood at this point.
If you want to be technical, the Joker is not a superhero
. I say "comic themed" as to not limit the image descriptions to one group of beings.Besides, not all comics have superheroes and not all superheroes are in comics.
dont mean he aint somebodys hero.
He's like Capt Sully of the Hudson ... but with green hair... and a badguy ... but otherwise a inspirational hero like Sully
Besides, J-man is not just evil,
he's Super Evil
Is Order Of The Stick a super comic?
I mean, it does have Belkar Bitterleaf... right?
If you want to be technical, the Joker is not a superhero
They're images of superheroes and villains.
Besides, not all comics have superheroes and not all superheroes are in comics.
those aren't comic-themed images. They're superhero-themed images (comics != superheroes)
:P
They're superhero-themed images.
They're images of superheroes and villains.
So, which is it?
Somehow I get the feeling that if I posted images of Apocalypse, Doomsday and Mister Sinister, you wouldn't refer to them as "superheroes", but that's just me.
I think the answers are:
Phoenix
Blood and Vigilance
and
Creatively using the rules provided in Apocalypse, Cyberscape, Future, Future Tech, Past and Urban Arcana
Anything I missed?
As the Earth phrase goes: "You started it".
Started what? I asked why you were posting images instead of participating in the thread.
Somehow I get the feeling that if I posted images of Apocalypse, Doomsday and Mister Sinister, you wouldn't refer to them as "superheroes", but that's just me.
I thought I'd made the distinction clear: "Superhero" refers to both the genre and the standard protagonists of that genre (i.e., the genre is named after its standard protagonist), while "supervillain" refers to the standard antagonists of the genre.
(Historically, the supervillain arguably didn't join the genre until after the superhero, so it makes sense that the genre would be named after the figure that appeared first. Alternatively, the genre could have been named after the protagonist instead of the antagonist simply because they're the "good guys," which would indicate a privileging of the "good-guy" ethics. The historical argument depends on where you see the origin of the genre. Many assume it's Action Comics #1, but you can go alternatively back to characters like The Phantom or The Shadow, who originated in pulp fiction, or even all the way back to Spring-Heeled Jack, a villain figure from English "penny dreadfuls" of the 19th century. Ultimately, I tend to think that, in matters of culture and history, the answer is rarely either/or. It's probably a combination of the two.)
The point is that a "superhero-themed" image references to the whole "superhero" genre, which contains within it both heroes and villains (as well as other standard character types), and such an image can contain heroes and/or villains. I think it's a consistent position. What is your objection to it, if any?
PS: Waylan, you missed nothing. A succinct summary, indeed. Given that we already answered the OP's question, I think, this divergence is just sh*its and giggles, really.