Apocalypse weapons - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Apocalypse weapons

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
shivian52
Jul 06, 2010 21:42:30 So my friends and I have started a game of d20 apocalypse and combined it with where we live. I was just wondering has anyone else done that? Also I'm playing a sniper and I am thinking about upgrades for my light 50 barrett (pg 96 core handbook). So far I have silenced, reduced recoil, automatic, and extended clip. I am not sure what I want for my last upgrade. Is there a list of upgrades for weapons cuz this is just what I got of the top of my head.
#2
Master_Vega
Jul 07, 2010 1:35:27 I dunno how much your group knows about firearms, but you can't silence a Berret Light .50 IRL... at least, if you can, it'll behave like a completely different weapon (what with a severe lack of stopping power and range due to the requisite dramatic decrease in the round's speed). I cringe every time someone kills me with a silenced Berret in CoD:MW2... not because I dislike snipers, but because it simply breaks physics.

As for different upgrades, I'd start looking at different ammunition types (listed in the CRB, Weapons Locker, Urban Arcana, and possibly other places.) You won't find every variation, such as APFSDS rounds for your barret, or incindiary AP rounds for that matter, but it's a start.

If your GM is open to houserules, you might try some of the stuff I've made here.
#3
bone_naga
Jul 07, 2010 1:41:21 There is a company that makes silencers for the barrett, but like you said, it changes the performance of the weapon dramatically. And when you can kill someone from that far away, are you really that concerned about a silencer?
#4
shivian52
Jul 07, 2010 3:59:21 well the only reason I wanted a silencer is because if you look in the game it only has a distance of 120ft (without feats). So it's still pretty close range. I know the gun IRL can shoot a lot farther, and I haven't been in that many situations to shoot a double a football field, at least not yet.

Vega- I liked what you had put in the link, thank you. I will talk to my GM about it some of those things. And I personally don't know that much about firearms but I think the GM does.

Thank you for the imput
#5
Master_Vega
Jul 07, 2010 11:01:49 Well, something to take into account is that that 120ft is only the first range increment. You get ten increments with the barret, taking a -2 to your shot for each full increment your target is away from you. Technically you could shoot a target at 1200ft at a -20. Far Shot makes your maximum range 1800ft. There's also a Sniper Prestige class in the Urban Arcana Web Enhancement (dunno if Wizards still hosts it on their site, though) that grants Improved Far Shot, which doubles your range increment instead of extending it to 1.5. This puts your no-penalties range at 240ft, and your maximum range at 2400ft.

I know what you mean, though. The GM in my main gaming group isn't very sniper-friendly, and usually the enemies get the drop on the PC's rather than the other way around. You might want to talk with your GM if you want to have your character do some serious sniper work, even as long-range support for your allies.

Glad I could help, and hopefully your GM feels comfortable with the houseruled equipment. Happy gaming!
#6
TheRealOrion
Jul 07, 2010 12:17:15 I hear people making this observation a lot, that d20M rifles don't have enough range, but I think Vega's post is deceptively insightful. Not just anyone can pick up a long-range sniper rifle and shoot accurately at 1/4 mile away. It still takes skill to do that kind of thing, and that skill, in d20, is represented by things like feats but also just one's BA. If you have all the right feats, and if you have a high BA, then you can actually take a -10 and still make your shot. That's the nature of making a tough shot, and it's the nature of a game determined by dice.

What I sometimes hear people saying when the claim that the rifles don't have long enough ranges is "I want to pop heads from a safe distance with no chance of failure." I'm not claiming anyone here is saying that, but it is the subtext sometimes. From a GM's point of view, it sounds an awful lot like a player trying to distort real-world facts to their advantage in a game.

Again, I'm not saying that anyone here is making that claim, but it does come up sometimes.
#7
shivian52
Jul 07, 2010 13:15:17 Well the reason I went with a sniper was because Simo Hayah is one of my favorite WW2 hero's. I thought it would be fun to have a character based off his heritage. then the idea became a lot more complex.

I did not realize you could shoot that far like that. I do believe that I have farshot but not yet improved far shot. From the plans we (our dnd group) have made I think at some point soon I will be able to set up some nice distance shots. This is my first d20M game that I've played so this information is very helpful.

Vega, yes he does allow the houserules so I am pretty sure I will be able to use some of those will be useful. I have a question for you about one of those. The magnified scope. I work with camera's and this makes me think of a telephoto lens. With those lenses you can take them on and off. would something like that be possible with a gun to help change from long range to close range. It would probably take a full round to attach it, but I have a feeling that it would be worth it.
#8
Master_Vega
Jul 07, 2010 18:18:29 Don't worry. Multiple range increments is a rule that quite a few people miss on their first game.

The problem with swapping out a scope for something else is that you have to "tune" it to your gun by firing at least a few shots and adjusting the alignment of the scope as needed. Going from your scope to open sights wouldn't be a problem if I understand correctly, because you're just taking the scope off and using sights that have been on the weapon the entire time, but the Berret light .50 doesn't come with open sights.

Someone more experienced with firearms might be able to tell you if you can set up a system for quick calibration (if nothing else, something like "twist knob one 30 degrees counter clockwise, knob two 15 clockwise")

You could also ask your GM if he's willing to allow a slightly more rare/expensive telescopic scope, which you can adjust the magnification on. That way you could go from 2X (less/no penalty for closer range) to 10X as a full-round or move action if you have Quick Reload or something.

Another thing to consider is how rare .50 ammo is post apocalypse. I can imagine that after production facilities go down, it'll be worth its weight in gold. You might want to invest some ranks in Craft (Chemical) and Craft (Mechanical) so you can make your own ammunition.

EDIT: I just reread your post and see what you're talking about. To my knowledge, rifle scopes don't quite work like camera lenses. You're stuck with the lenses you have, but some are adjustable internally so you can change your zoom level.
#9
backstabbist
Jul 07, 2010 22:24:14 in d20Modern games
one should not confuse the ability of a character to hit targets at extremely long range,
with the likelyhood of the GM presenting you the opportunity to have a target that far away.

In MANY d20 games, 'far' targets are 'all the way across the warehouse'

A lot of 'sniper character' builds result in Range Inc modifiers, like Farshot etc,
that are not required to be used only on 1000m longballers:
Consider building a Pistolero Sniper... the guy is making shots with a 8" 44mag that mooks with AKs miss. The Dan Wesson 357max was made because the regular 357mag didnt knock over steel targets at 200yd dependably.... if folks really do shoot 200yd competition with a pistol, whynot bring that into your sniping game.
Also, some folks build their farshooter with the class Sniper,
while others build their farshooter as a FullBAB(20of20) classed Str/MartialArtist with a m1Garand (10lb club)... the snipey is actually more dangerous when they get too close for him to shoot

I wont get into TOO much of a rant over specialty ammo types,
but I will leave you this to consider-
We all know the time travel hazzard: The same matter cannot occupy the same space.
But keep in mind: Different matter cannot occupy the same space either. ;)
a bullet has just ONE core, the core can be Lead, steel, WP, Explosives, FNHype-nesium, or even hollow or peanutbutter... but it cant be full steel and full wp at the same time.
For decent stats on stuff like APIT or 12ga SlugNuke, ask and the longtooth cadre here can dig up the stats we got in days gone by
#10
Master_Vega
Jul 07, 2010 22:59:55 If you're referring to the incindiary AP, I was referring to the third round from the left (back) in this picture. Supposedly it's incindiary AP, which I took to mean that AP was the primary purpose of the round, with just enough heat-generating goodness to set off an unfortunately-placed tank round (or any other semi-unstable explosive thing in an ammo cache).

Am I wrong?
#11
backstabbist
Jul 07, 2010 23:16:13 you are not wrong
API Armor Piercing Incindiary ( APIT=API tracer)
There is burny stuff inside the Incindiary ammo,
and less of it in AP Incindiary
cause they had to make room for the steel AP bit.... and when you add Tracer to it, the additional RedPhos tracer stuff means even less of the original amount of burny stuff from the plain Incindiary.

API (APIT) should not be statted as full effect AP plus full effect WP,
in the same way the ss109 bullet has a steel bit to 'pierce' helmet armor but is not 'AP' ammo by the Fed because it is 1/2steelcore 1/2leadcore.
#12
sinchocobo
Jul 15, 2010 14:50:38
So my friends and I have started a game of d20 apocalypse and combined it with where we live. I was just wondering has anyone else done that? Also I'm playing a sniper and I am thinking about upgrades for my light 50 barrett (pg 96 core handbook). So far I have silenced, reduced recoil, automatic, and extended clip. I am not sure what I want for my last upgrade. Is there a list of upgrades for weapons cuz this is just what I got of the top of my head.

If I remember the D20 modern errata, you can't shoot a rifle on automatic if you are using the sniper scope.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shivian52 Jul 06, 2010 21:42:30	So my friends and I have started a game of d20 apocalypse and combined it with where we live. I was just wondering has anyone else done that? Also I'm playing a sniper and I am thinking about upgrades for my light 50 barrett (pg 96 core handbook). So far I have silenced, reduced recoil, automatic, and extended clip. I am not sure what I want for my last upgrade. Is there a list of upgrades for weapons cuz this is just what I got of the top of my head.
#2 Master_Vega Jul 07, 2010 1:35:27	I dunno how much your group knows about firearms, but you can't silence a Berret Light .50 IRL... at least, if you can, it'll behave like a completely different weapon (what with a severe lack of stopping power and range due to the requisite dramatic decrease in the round's speed). I cringe every time someone kills me with a silenced Berret in CoD:MW2... not because I dislike snipers, but because it simply breaks physics. As for different upgrades, I'd start looking at different ammunition types (listed in the CRB, Weapons Locker, Urban Arcana, and possibly other places.) You won't find every variation, such as APFSDS rounds for your barret, or incindiary AP rounds for that matter, but it's a start. If your GM is open to houserules, you might try some of the stuff I've made here.
#3 bone_naga Jul 07, 2010 1:41:21	There is a company that makes silencers for the barrett, but like you said, it changes the performance of the weapon dramatically. And when you can kill someone from that far away, are you really that concerned about a silencer?
#4 shivian52 Jul 07, 2010 3:59:21	well the only reason I wanted a silencer is because if you look in the game it only has a distance of 120ft (without feats). So it's still pretty close range. I know the gun IRL can shoot a lot farther, and I haven't been in that many situations to shoot a double a football field, at least not yet. Vega- I liked what you had put in the link, thank you. I will talk to my GM about it some of those things. And I personally don't know that much about firearms but I think the GM does. Thank you for the imput
#5 Master_Vega Jul 07, 2010 11:01:49	Well, something to take into account is that that 120ft is only the first range increment. You get ten increments with the barret, taking a -2 to your shot for each full increment your target is away from you. Technically you could shoot a target at 1200ft at a -20. Far Shot makes your maximum range 1800ft. There's also a Sniper Prestige class in the Urban Arcana Web Enhancement (dunno if Wizards still hosts it on their site, though) that grants Improved Far Shot, which doubles your range increment instead of extending it to 1.5. This puts your no-penalties range at 240ft, and your maximum range at 2400ft. I know what you mean, though. The GM in my main gaming group isn't very sniper-friendly, and usually the enemies get the drop on the PC's rather than the other way around. You might want to talk with your GM if you want to have your character do some serious sniper work, even as long-range support for your allies. Glad I could help, and hopefully your GM feels comfortable with the houseruled equipment. Happy gaming!
#6 TheRealOrion Jul 07, 2010 12:17:15	I hear people making this observation a lot, that d20M rifles don't have enough range, but I think Vega's post is deceptively insightful. Not just anyone can pick up a long-range sniper rifle and shoot accurately at 1/4 mile away. It still takes skill to do that kind of thing, and that skill, in d20, is represented by things like feats but also just one's BA. If you have all the right feats, and if you have a high BA, then you can actually take a -10 and still make your shot. That's the nature of making a tough shot, and it's the nature of a game determined by dice. What I sometimes hear people saying when the claim that the rifles don't have long enough ranges is "I want to pop heads from a safe distance with no chance of failure." I'm not claiming anyone here is saying that, but it is the subtext sometimes. From a GM's point of view, it sounds an awful lot like a player trying to distort real-world facts to their advantage in a game. Again, I'm not saying that anyone here is making that claim, but it does come up sometimes.
#7 shivian52 Jul 07, 2010 13:15:17	Well the reason I went with a sniper was because Simo Hayah is one of my favorite WW2 hero's. I thought it would be fun to have a character based off his heritage. then the idea became a lot more complex. I did not realize you could shoot that far like that. I do believe that I have farshot but not yet improved far shot. From the plans we (our dnd group) have made I think at some point soon I will be able to set up some nice distance shots. This is my first d20M game that I've played so this information is very helpful. Vega, yes he does allow the houserules so I am pretty sure I will be able to use some of those will be useful. I have a question for you about one of those. The magnified scope. I work with camera's and this makes me think of a telephoto lens. With those lenses you can take them on and off. would something like that be possible with a gun to help change from long range to close range. It would probably take a full round to attach it, but I have a feeling that it would be worth it.
#8 Master_Vega Jul 07, 2010 18:18:29	Don't worry. Multiple range increments is a rule that quite a few people miss on their first game. The problem with swapping out a scope for something else is that you have to "tune" it to your gun by firing at least a few shots and adjusting the alignment of the scope as needed. Going from your scope to open sights wouldn't be a problem if I understand correctly, because you're just taking the scope off and using sights that have been on the weapon the entire time, but the Berret light .50 doesn't come with open sights. Someone more experienced with firearms might be able to tell you if you can set up a system for quick calibration (if nothing else, something like "twist knob one 30 degrees counter clockwise, knob two 15 clockwise") You could also ask your GM if he's willing to allow a slightly more rare/expensive telescopic scope, which you can adjust the magnification on. That way you could go from 2X (less/no penalty for closer range) to 10X as a full-round or move action if you have Quick Reload or something. Another thing to consider is how rare .50 ammo is post apocalypse. I can imagine that after production facilities go down, it'll be worth its weight in gold. You might want to invest some ranks in Craft (Chemical) and Craft (Mechanical) so you can make your own ammunition. EDIT: I just reread your post and see what you're talking about. To my knowledge, rifle scopes don't quite work like camera lenses. You're stuck with the lenses you have, but some are adjustable internally so you can change your zoom level.
#9 backstabbist Jul 07, 2010 22:24:14	in d20Modern games one should not confuse the ability of a character to hit targets at extremely long range, with the likelyhood of the GM presenting you the opportunity to have a target that far away. In MANY d20 games, 'far' targets are 'all the way across the warehouse' A lot of 'sniper character' builds result in Range Inc modifiers, like Farshot etc, that are not required to be used only on 1000m longballers: Consider building a Pistolero Sniper... the guy is making shots with a 8" 44mag that mooks with AKs miss. The Dan Wesson 357max was made because the regular 357mag didnt knock over steel targets at 200yd dependably.... if folks really do shoot 200yd competition with a pistol, whynot bring that into your sniping game. Also, some folks build their farshooter with the class Sniper, while others build their farshooter as a FullBAB(20of20) classed Str/MartialArtist with a m1Garand (10lb club)... the snipey is actually more dangerous when they get too close for him to shoot I wont get into TOO much of a rant over specialty ammo types, but I will leave you this to consider- We all know the time travel hazzard: The same matter cannot occupy the same space. But keep in mind: Different matter cannot occupy the same space either. ;) a bullet has just ONE core, the core can be Lead, steel, WP, Explosives, FNHype-nesium, or even hollow or peanutbutter... but it cant be full steel and full wp at the same time. For decent stats on stuff like APIT or 12ga SlugNuke, ask and the longtooth cadre here can dig up the stats we got in days gone by
#10 Master_Vega Jul 07, 2010 22:59:55	If you're referring to the incindiary AP, I was referring to the third round from the left (back) in this picture. Supposedly it's incindiary AP, which I took to mean that AP was the primary purpose of the round, with just enough heat-generating goodness to set off an unfortunately-placed tank round (or any other semi-unstable explosive thing in an ammo cache). Am I wrong?
#11 backstabbist Jul 07, 2010 23:16:13	you are not wrong API Armor Piercing Incindiary ( APIT=API tracer) There is burny stuff inside the Incindiary ammo, and less of it in AP Incindiary cause they had to make room for the steel AP bit.... and when you add Tracer to it, the additional RedPhos tracer stuff means even less of the original amount of burny stuff from the plain Incindiary. API (APIT) should not be statted as full effect AP plus full effect WP, in the same way the ss109 bullet has a steel bit to 'pierce' helmet armor but is not 'AP' ammo by the Fed because it is 1/2steelcore 1/2leadcore.
#12 sinchocobo Jul 15, 2010 14:50:38	So my friends and I have started a game of d20 apocalypse and combined it with where we live. I was just wondering has anyone else done that? Also I'm playing a sniper and I am thinking about upgrades for my light 50 barrett (pg 96 core handbook). So far I have silenced, reduced recoil, automatic, and extended clip. I am not sure what I want for my last upgrade. Is there a list of upgrades for weapons cuz this is just what I got of the top of my head. If I remember the D20 modern errata, you can't shoot a rifle on automatic if you are using the sniper scope.