Do you have a M-number or manufacturer to reference?
I am not familiar with a 40mm that fires a bunch of 22LR, that may be a misunderstanding of some kind of .22pepperbox cartridge, or simply a mechanical that I havent seen. But the intracacies of transfering a standard 40GL FiringPin strike into a multitude of rimfire hammerstrikes in the shell would be problematic.... that, and each 22LR would be out of a barrel less than 3" long (40mm ammo sized)?
Beehive, shot, canister, flechette... sometimes nomenclature gets misused.
Have a wonderful day!
PS. I was always under the assumption that a "beehive" round was a tank sized shotgun shell. Now THAT impressed me!
Some of the After Action Reports from 'Nam explains how effective they were in stopping said actions.
I'm with Stig on this one. What IS a handful of .22 Long gonna do that can't be done better with HE or Flechette?
Explosives are Gods way of saying, "Life is now complete."
Doug
IIRC the Beehive rounds were for Artillery shells that were made as a "the Compound being stormed? Break out the Beehives!" stopping method for the ever-so-annoying being overran Custer's Last Stand weapon.
Some of the After Action Reports from 'Nam explains how effective they were in stopping said actions.
I'm with Stig on this one. What IS a handful of .22 Long gonna do that can't be done better with HE or Flechette?
Explosives are Gods way of saying, "Life is now complete."
Doug
Yeah... that is true, but I think it may have been for the 105mm towed (or airlifted) howitzer. I am not sure if a beehive round for a 155mm or 8-inch howitzer exists.
Although we trained at direct fire, it was never with live ammo and not very often...
Peacetime training ammo= HE, smoke, illum... (and guess whose gun was at the end of the formation and had to stay up all night shooting illum for the grunts?)
Have a wonderful day!
Could we get them pics stacked instead of across please,
< or 1 visible & rest SBLOCK'ed>
so the thread width will fit on less than 2048 res screen? ;)
a) I wonder how they energize all them rimfire strikers.
b) I would have gone with 4 inner & a whole lot more outer ring.
c) FPS of a 22lr from a 2" barrel = bad penetration/expansion
d) Pattern Spread, did they machine in any divergance or is it a 2" pattern at 100yard?
e) Why not just use the 40Buckshot round with larget pellets & more spread?
f) 10x 22lr was chosen over 22mag or 8x 5.7fn/32mag ?
But answering the OP,
it sure looks like you just unscrew the 2" barrelblock from the 1" actionblock to reload (perhaps you should get a custom speedloader made, or mill your barrelblock for fullmoon clips.)
Hey Johannixx,
as a guy savvy on the Feds point of view,
pull one trigger once to discharge more than one round of ammo,
yea or nea?
Even better, if the adapter had about 8-10 inches of actual shotgun barrel on it.
I am skeptical about how useful one shotgun shell would be in modern combat compared to 1 40mm HE round. I would only consider using a shotgun in combat if I could not get an assault rifle.
and just one of them bearings from a 10" 40mm tube is a spicy meatball to catch in the chest.
The limitation of the Buckshottyness of the 40mmGL is the thinwall chamber. It is suposed to be a light thumper, not a 1500fps cannon/gun. Without adding a steel barrel liner (with chamber) the pressure cap is just too low to reach the output of a 10ga Shotgun.
But I'm still puzzled as to why 22LR instead of 32mag/30carbine/9mm/9wmag
<7x 9wmag would ruin someones day out to 50+m for sure
2d6 + 8x(+1d6) + 9d6fire "ExplosiveAmmo";) >
I mean if its firing all of the projectiles at once, I'm not sure how much recoil you are going to get from firing a larger caliber (than a .22) from an under barrel where I doubt is as balanced as the main barrel.
Eh, what would I know anyways.
As to the legality, I don't know. Autoweapons.com is selling the pink beehive contraption shown above with the following text:
THE HORNET'S NEST -- THESE 40MM AMMO INSERTS PACK SOME FANTASTIC FIREPOWER! MADE FROM PRECISION MACHINED AIRCRAFT ALUMINUM, THE HOUSING IS BORED OUT AND TEN (10) STEEL RIFLED .22 BBL'S ARE INSERTED. YOU LOAD UP WITH TEN .22 LR CARTRIDGES, INSTALL A LARGE PISTOL PRIMER AND FIRE YOUR GRENADE LAUNCHER. WITH ONE PULL OF THE TRIGGER ALL TEN ROUNDS ARE DOWN RANGE, MAKING FOR ONE OF THE ULTIMATE DENSE BRUSH ROUNDS. THE HORNET'S NEST IS MADE FOR A LIFETIME OF USE, NOT LIKE THE UNLINED, HOMEMADE 18 SHOT MODELS THAT WILL DAMAGE YOUR M79. IN ANODIZED RED ALUMINUM, COMPLETE WITH UNLOADER TOOL. $495
I could easily see this as being construed as a machinegun, since one trigger pull results in multiple gunshots, but at $500, I don't think it is. No legal machinegun in this country costs as little as $500.
I have heard people say that it's technically a firearm in its own right, since it holds the cartridges. I don't know enough of the specifics to say. It might be considered an AOW since it doesn't look like a gun, or a pistol since it's obviously a cartridge of some sort. You'd have to ask a FFL/SOT.
Hmm... are shotguns with two barrels to one trigger legal? It seems like the same operation, but I wouldn't feel safe until I had gotten ruling from the ATF, these are the people that said a shoestring was a machine gun.
Double-barrel shotguns with a single trigger have a mechanism inside that alternates which barrel fires. You still only get one shot per trigger pull.
And technically, the ATF ruled that a Glock rigged to fire when the trigger was pulled AND again when the trigger was released, was not a machine gun. However, such an item would be very stupid, as once you fire one shot, you're locked into firing a second before you can let go of the weapon.
But yeah, when in doubt, it's always best to have it in writing from the ATF that it's okay.
And yes, 40mm GLs are destructive devices, as are the explosive grenades they fire. I'm not 100% sure if the $200 transfer tax applies to each individual grenade, or if there's a way to buy in bulk with one stamp. Either way, you have to document the use of the rounds. If you shoot one off at the range, you have to somehow document the destruction of the device. I'm not sure how this is accomplished, having never fired a GL in my life.
can ya get 40mm solid slug
can ya get 40mm solid slug
Did an ANGRY King Richard come back from the dead over there?
"Please, sir, would you like another?"
Doug
Sure they come in solids, but they are for LessThanLethal uses... which is good, because the gun is not a cannon & cant thump out 40mm Bullets more powerfull than a 10ga.
If you wanted plain KE slugs, best bet is to sabot a 50BMG Steel or muzzleload a Sabot KE Rod (arrow/spike) ala riflegrenade style. The thin chamber walls just dont have what it takes to get big FPS from anything more than regular shotgun weight projectiles.
But it would be fun to see it used at 40mm modified spigot-style mortar / riflegrenade. Muzzle load something almost RPG7-esque down the front of the 40mm that gets shot by the 40's firing pin. It leaves the barrel at 300fps, then kicks in stageII to whooosh it upto 1000fps, and terminal proximity fires the booster KE Subcal Driver to really spike the crud out of something at 6000fps.
Now, if you get that to replace the 10mm Tungsten KE Spike with a .40sw Hollowpoint bullet hitting at 6000fps, that will get you far more than +2 damage:evillaugh
uh.. why are you guys lookin at me like that... oh, right... its that Reality thing you keep talking about coming back to haunt me again, isnt it.:raincloud
But it would be fun to see it used at 40mm modified spigot-style mortar / riflegrenade. Muzzle load something almost RPG7-esque down the front of the 40mm that gets shot by the 40's firing pin. It leaves the barrel at 300fps, then kicks in stageII to whooosh it upto 1000fps, and terminal proximity fires the booster KE Subcal Driver to really spike the crud out of something at 6000fps.
If you rebuild the end with the rocket motor in it (It's a foot too long, and back blast would be a *****) you could use actual RPG-7 rounds. It is a 40mm launcher, after all. RPG-7s go about 900m with no problem, with half the motor, maybe 3-400m?
Just remember not to shoot the rifle while you have one loaded.
and the bees just do not want to co-operate with you in the magazine.
That, and you take a -2 on all your stealth rolls from the constant buzzing.
(just to note I haven't read through all the responses yet but here's my thoughts)
Could someone explain to me the advantages of such a weapon? I see no practical function that couldn't be done by a combat shotgun with appropriate load or grenades.
Have a wonderful day!
PS. I was always under the assumption that a "beehive" round was a tank sized shotgun shell. Now THAT impressed me!
though I guess the use of them in combat probably comes from vietnam grenadiers armed with the M73 grenade launcher would often use the grenade launcher as a close combat weapon (especially when their M16's jammed) basically they would launch the 44mm shell like a slow moving bullet and hope that the enemy was close enough that the round wouldn't arm before hitting the target (kind of a last ditch effort). but by loading a behive round in one I could see the potential as a close combat weapon. imagine a shotgun that fires several rounds roughly equel to the rounds being fired from the assault rifles, the grouping would increase the chance of a hit, plus it would do a lot more damage than a shotgun at a greater range. and close range it would be over kill (just a note a .22 round has a 4 in 10 chance of killing with a solid chest shot. 8 .22 rounds would have what is practically a gaurenteed kill)
on the note about wheather it is reusable or not my guess would be no. the way I look at it is it appears to be simalar to the discarding sabots used in shot guns to keep the shot or slug in position while traveling through the barrel and thus not ruin the weapon
What about attack dogs that shoot killer bees out of their mouths
Do I need a bATF tax stamp for the dogs,
or do the dogs have to get the stamp for the bees?
Does the civilian model come as a Semi: Only one bee comes out of the dog per bark? And without a detatchable magazine or bayonet lug it might still be CA legal.
Ooooh, just went back to the pics (Thanx for the SBLOCKs
)Looks like the last one (green with m203) is an 18x 22LR
That is more reasonable, but I still dont like the numbers of 22LR out of a 3" barrel vs the 40mm Buckshot load.... which both fall behind 10ga.
though I guess the use of them in combat probably comes from vietnam grenadiers armed with the M73 grenade launcher would often use the grenade launcher as a close combat weapon (especially when their M16's jammed) basically they would launch the 44mm shell like a slow moving bullet and hope that the enemy was close enough that the round wouldn't arm before hitting the target (kind of a last ditch effort).
Don't mean to nitpick so early in the morning but the M-79 fires a 4mm shell. This is the break-open "shotgun looking" launcher that was so popular during Vietnam. (Also a personal favorite, hence the nitpicking.) Fired Expert with the Grenade Launcher everytime I fired. (Oddly better with the Grenade Launcher than I was with the M-60.) Unfortunately the M-79 has been retired from the armory of the US Army.
I tried putting a Bayonet Lug on the neighbors dog but they kept saying something about PETA.
I like eating tasty animals, too.
Doug
(& the knockoff quasi-legal 37mm SignalFlare Launchers)
to keep the slide action m203 & its short ammo requirements out of the picture...
What we need here is to apply some MetalStorm multi-slug multi-charge 25cal tubes to a 8" 40mmshell.
Ripple5 of Salvo16 with a huge period of Recoil Impulse to clamp down on recoil spike... Ripple5 on 20ms deleay(fused) or straight 80 sequential on 1ms delay
i still think dumping 18 .22 at point blank is gonna get the job done, and its also kinda swish. not any old mug is gonna use bee hive rounds it show a certain level of style and individuality :D
i'll have to hold out for my underslung 40mm boffors cannon sawn off.
at least i've sawn it off :P
if it was only a single shot would it be legal (i already know its legal in texas, if its dangerous its ok :D )
Did an ANGRY King Richard come back from the dead over there?
"Please, sir, would you like another?"
Doug
ha ha how did you guess. no i'm not richard the 3rd neither am i henry the 8th who was also one of are more violent kings, the guy chopped up 8 woman, f****d the church and told the pope to stick it up his a**. :D happy days
Don't mean to nitpick so early in the morning but the M-79 fires a 4mm shell. This is the break-open "shotgun looking" launcher that was so popular during Vietnam. (Also a personal favorite, hence the nitpicking.) Fired Expert with the Grenade Launcher everytime I fired. (Oddly better with the Grenade Launcher than I was with the M-60.) Unfortunately the M-79 has been retired from the armory of the US Army.
I tried putting a Bayonet Lug on the neighbors dog but they kept saying something about PETA.
I like eating tasty animals, too.
Doug
yeah I know it's a 40mm shell in a m79. the 44mm and m73 was a typo. I was sure i fixed it but I guess my modem lost a signal before i finished editing and I didn't think to log back in and check it.
**now my time to nitpick mwahahahaha
ha ha how did you guess. no i'm not richard the 3rd neither am i henry the 8th who was also one of are more violent kings, the guy chopped up 8 woman, f****d the church and told the pope to stick it up his a**. :D happy days
henry the 8th only had 3 of his wives behedded if memory serves right. he devorced 2 and the last one outlived him only for all of his money and power to be handed to henry's 11 year old son (moral of the tale. never marry a monarch lol)
my underslung 40mm boffors cannon sawn off
You gonna have ole WhatsHerName follow you around with your reloads?
But this does demonstrate what I mean by 40mmGL is not a cannon... Bofors is a cannon. Maybe get a sleeve insert like the H&R shotguns so the m79 can fire 20mm cannonshells. Not an aluminium core with steel barrel, you want all the weight of a full steel 40mm x 15" rod bored & chambered for 20mm.
to find under slung anti personnel dogs
well, yeah... duh. The bees are terrible for AntiTank work... they rate like quarter-mils of eRHA penetration.
ok so i've come to a solution the ammo needs to be cassless to cut down on length so a 30mm caseless round in a sleeve for when you need to nail an apc and you've lost ya AT44 or gustav 66 ;)
In the mean time, me and her will get out the welding rigs and ASPCA regs.
If it sounds like a LOT of keys jingling, I'm just performing S.P.O.R.T.S.
Doug
Upon closer inspection, she must have sold out to your enemies,
she is about to hand you dummy drill ammo when you need to reload in a firefight. Always play your henchmen as PCs to avoid this situation, it is well worth the hit to XPs to stop this from happening.
Caseless isnt the solution.
The problem is not getting enough bang into the 40mm GL tube,
the problem is getting a low enough bang in the 40GL tube.
Look at the miniscule amount of powder used to propell the 40HEDP. That wee propellant charge is kept to the thick part of the brass case because it would shatter the 40 Tube without the brass case acting as its own chamber. Note the expansion low presure chamber to drop the power down before it acts on the projectile & thin wall case (&thinwall Tube).
The solution is to have a wee little bang in the tube, and the MightyManlyMegaMagnum Blast for acceleration happen outside the tube... like 25' out front, RA/RPG style
BurstFire is -4 +2 dice
SawedOff grant a free -2 +1die
22LR is 2d4
I'd say free -4 Tohit, +2Dice twice on the 22LR = -4Tohit 6d4
Range Inc 40 (remeber the ~3"barrels)
Or we could look at it straight Big Shotgun Style
Damage 2d12
Range Inc 40
Shotgun -1/-1 per RI
Or we could look at it straight Big Shotgun Style
Damage 2d12
Range Inc 40
Shotgun -1/-1 per RI
Sounds good to me.
Backstabbist, you ever see the picture of the Remington 1740? A pair of 870s mounted side-by-side, kinda rough, but I imagine you would need a machine shop to make it look as nice as I would want it to look.
Now, imagine that with a couple of 10-gauges like you were talking about. Maybe BPSs? It would be interesting to do with 1887s/1901s, but those are too rare. I would like a longer magazine on the BPS, but that is at least in part that I hate button magazines, they seem pointless to me.
00 buck is 18 balls from a 10-gauge, touch off two at once and that is 36 pieces of lead heading down-range howling mad. Or, you could do #4, I heard winchester sells that, but I can't find it on their website, maybe it got discontinued. That would be 108 pieces of shot heading downrange. Now, who was it said shotguns are obsolete again?
thats roughly just over 3 5 round burst fires or as there in blocks of 3, 6 symiltaneous 3 round bursts. allow me to throw some alternate rules out there although i'll probably use stabbist,
ok so short barrel limits effective range, its smooth bore as well so even worse.
d20 stats .22 at 2d4 burst fire adding 2 extra dice. lets treat it as firing several linked .22's
Damage: 8d4
Range: 20ft
Special: -5 to hit
cost: DC 17? not got my rule book to work out price
restriction: license +3
ha man will never truly drop the shot gun because he is to attached to the ka chunk sound a pump action makes.
That (quite impressive) ka-chunk tells me two things:
1) someone brought a shotgun
2) either a) he didn't think it was important to have a _loaded_ shotgun until just now, or b) he thinks it's a good idea to throw away one of his few rounds.
I would be much more intimidated by suddenly seeing myself outlined on a wall by a flashlight beam while a voice I can't locate says "Freeze dirtbag!"
I cant stand it in movies & shows when they run all over the building trying to clear it, then when they finally spot the badguys decide that THEN was a good tiome to rack the unshootable shotgun. Or the opposite, racking the gun as a form of punctuation:
"Time for the pain "
Worst case ever: The bald guy in Masters Of The Universe... he must have racked that shotgun like 20 times as he ran around saying toughtalk one-liners.
Belly,
Look at high ammo volume effect as done by the Minigun.
It is a 2d10 caliber that gets bumped up 2 dice by firing 10x the quantity. It is MM Blackhawk statted as 4d10 gun, Autofire 100rnd, Burstfire 50. The only admission that 25 bullets (100rnd/4x area) is more damaging than 10 is the guns base damage is up 2dice from the calibers base damage. They made no special damage case for BurstFire other than ammo 50... so the +2Dice feat is all you get : +2dice for high ROF gun +2dice for Burstfire. So given the existing example that set 50x 7.62 as 6d10 only with -4Feat, I have a hard time letting the 18x 22 get a free +6dice.
Also to note, using a 40GL as directfire shotgun/Hornet would be PersonalFirearmsProf, not the 'Learn how to lob' exotic feat
Have they made Beehive ammo for the 5.7 yet?
Wont it be cool to fire a bunch of needles from the 5.7 cartridge
How about you stat both up?
Ha, a cannister round with 28 OneGrain 0.2mm filiments?
we gonna call them Gnat-hive Rounds?
Dustmite-hive?
I dunno about giving the gun that shoots 30000 bullets at once a penalty to hit. I mean, how could you possibly miss? at least one of those is going to hit. I say, no penalty to hit (maybe even a bonus?) but with a very small range inc, like 20ft.
But then, I don't know anything about guns.
EDIT: it could only be better if instead of .22's, it fired a dozen 5.7's.