Burst Fire and Double Tap conundrum... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Burst Fire and Double Tap conundrum...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
narukagami
Jun 23, 2009 14:31:55 So with a lot of free time on my hands I've gone back to working on my Mecha-based near-future setting.

I've decided to go a rout that most weapons, instead of small numbers of large dice (4d12 for example), will use large numbers of smaller dice (8d6 instead of 4d12, for example). I prefer the larger minimum damage and greater average damage that this provides. My group and I are used to dice pool games so rolling and adding up of fistfuls of dice isn't a problem for us.

Now my problem is handling Burst Fire and Double Tap. If I'm correct, Burst Fire effectively doubles the number of dice rolled, and Double Tap effectively multiplies the number rolled by 1.5x. Should I just use this formula for big guns?
It just doesn't make sense to me that regardless of the damage of the weapon, Burst Fire only adds two dice and Double Tap only adds one die.
#2
TheRealOrion
Jun 23, 2009 15:04:58 If you're double/halving the orignal dice, I'd say you'll want to double the number of dice added, too, othewise you're actually halving the bonus damage from the feats.
#3
narukagami
Jun 23, 2009 15:10:37
If you're double/halving the orignal dice, I'd say you'll want to double the number of dice added, too, othewise you're actually halving the bonus damage from the feats.

Yeah, of course. :P

I mean like, a 20mm autocannon does 8d6 damage with my modified dice.
It does 12d6 damage with Double Tap.
Burst Fire will make it do 16d6 damage.

Or something like that. Mainly I just want to be sure this is fair and balanced, and my math, and deconstruction of the feats' math, is right.
#4
TheRealOrion
Jun 23, 2009 17:13:38 Guh. Sorry. Wasn't answering the question you asked. My bad.

Rules As Written:

For Double Tap, you add a single die of damage to the autocannon, so 4d12 becomes 5d12. Therefore, in your system, to maintain that increase, you'd change 8d6 into 10d6 because your "2d6" stands in for a RAW 1d12. Similarly for Burst Fire, you add two dice, so 4d12 becomes 6d12, and thus in your system, 8d6 would become 12d6.

Rules As Interpreted (wherein 1 die is +100% damage), you'd multiply as you said.

If I were GMing this change, I'd go with the Rules As Written.
#5
backstabbist
Jun 23, 2009 23:37:39 Option A: Add 1 Die DTap
Just make the 20mm 2d24, like the personal guns that DTap & Burst were written for
+1die for DTap = 3d24
+2die for Burst = 4d24

Option B: DTap 1.5x Damage Mod, Burst 2x Damage Mod
Works for any die method of damage calculation
including 20mm as 1d48, or as 24d2 and everything in between

I like option B.
Fits every weapon equally.
Cause a DTap of Nukes shouldnt raise 16d8 to just 17d8 ;)
#6
DwarfFighter
Jun 24, 2009 6:16:21 Do you treat mecha and vehicle weapons as personal firearms? The doubletap and burst fire feats may not even apply.

-DF
#7
narukagami
Jun 24, 2009 6:37:25
Do you treat mecha and vehicle weapons as personal firearms? The doubletap and burst fire feats may not even apply.

-DF

For mecha, as long as you have Mecha Weapon Proficiency and Mecha Operation, yes. For Vehicles, it depends on the weapon, vehicle, and feat. For example I allow Burst Fire with ANY automatic weapon, personal or vehicle, as long as you have the feat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 narukagami Jun 23, 2009 14:31:55	So with a lot of free time on my hands I've gone back to working on my Mecha-based near-future setting. I've decided to go a rout that most weapons, instead of small numbers of large dice (4d12 for example), will use large numbers of smaller dice (8d6 instead of 4d12, for example). I prefer the larger minimum damage and greater average damage that this provides. My group and I are used to dice pool games so rolling and adding up of fistfuls of dice isn't a problem for us. Now my problem is handling Burst Fire and Double Tap. If I'm correct, Burst Fire effectively doubles the number of dice rolled, and Double Tap effectively multiplies the number rolled by 1.5x. Should I just use this formula for big guns? It just doesn't make sense to me that regardless of the damage of the weapon, Burst Fire only adds two dice and Double Tap only adds one die.
#2 TheRealOrion Jun 23, 2009 15:04:58	If you're double/halving the orignal dice, I'd say you'll want to double the number of dice added, too, othewise you're actually halving the bonus damage from the feats.
#3 narukagami Jun 23, 2009 15:10:37	If you're double/halving the orignal dice, I'd say you'll want to double the number of dice added, too, othewise you're actually halving the bonus damage from the feats. Yeah, of course. :P I mean like, a 20mm autocannon does 8d6 damage with my modified dice. It does 12d6 damage with Double Tap. Burst Fire will make it do 16d6 damage. Or something like that. Mainly I just want to be sure this is fair and balanced, and my math, and deconstruction of the feats' math, is right.
#4 TheRealOrion Jun 23, 2009 17:13:38	Guh. Sorry. Wasn't answering the question you asked. My bad. Rules As Written: For Double Tap, you add a single die of damage to the autocannon, so 4d12 becomes 5d12. Therefore, in your system, to maintain that increase, you'd change 8d6 into 10d6 because your "2d6" stands in for a RAW 1d12. Similarly for Burst Fire, you add two dice, so 4d12 becomes 6d12, and thus in your system, 8d6 would become 12d6. Rules As Interpreted (wherein 1 die is +100% damage), you'd multiply as you said. If I were GMing this change, I'd go with the Rules As Written.
#5 backstabbist Jun 23, 2009 23:37:39	Option A: Add 1 Die DTap Just make the 20mm 2d24, like the personal guns that DTap & Burst were written for +1die for DTap = 3d24 +2die for Burst = 4d24 Option B: DTap 1.5x Damage Mod, Burst 2x Damage Mod Works for any die method of damage calculation including 20mm as 1d48, or as 24d2 and everything in between I like option B. Fits every weapon equally. Cause a DTap of Nukes shouldnt raise 16d8 to just 17d8 ;)
#6 DwarfFighter Jun 24, 2009 6:16:21	Do you treat mecha and vehicle weapons as personal firearms? The doubletap and burst fire feats may not even apply. -DF
#7 narukagami Jun 24, 2009 6:37:25	Do you treat mecha and vehicle weapons as personal firearms? The doubletap and burst fire feats may not even apply. -DF For mecha, as long as you have Mecha Weapon Proficiency and Mecha Operation, yes. For Vehicles, it depends on the weapon, vehicle, and feat. For example I allow Burst Fire with ANY automatic weapon, personal or vehicle, as long as you have the feat.