Character death - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Character death

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ice_miller
Mar 21, 2008 3:23:45 One of my characters died in tonight's d20 Modern game. He was a 14th level Strong/Soldier in a squad with three other Department 7 agents. We had located this Russian terrorist on the run, posing as a business man and living in a nice house in the 'burbs. We stormed his house only to find he had three henchmen with him and his family for protection. A raging gun battle ensued with a Fireball spell thrown in for good measure.

Just when things were going my characters' way after having killed one of the big Russian thugs, the two remaining henchmen rushed the family out the side door and into the garage where they dove into a tricked out Hummer and sped down the driveway and across the lawn onto the street. My PCs pursued and jumped into our "enhanced" Ford Crown Vic. We exchanged a few pot shots at each other before the Hummer gained some speed and rounded a corner. My character hammered the accelerator, and we had a chase on our hands.

Our Crown Vic flew around a bend only to see the Hummer clip the rear bumper of a Rent-A-Cop's patrol car and skid sideways to avoid smashing into a house. Coming to a full stop, the thugs leaned out the windows, and one of them had a freaking LAW rocket launcher! The rocket struck our car and blew apart the front end while we were moving, knocking the hit points down to 2. Windshield blow out, hood on fire, and black smoke pouring from our ride, my character floored the accelerator pedal and we rammed the stopped Hummer, t-boning it full force. The impact of the crash flipped the truck on its side, killing all of the occupants but one. My PCs were injured as well, but would have been worse had it not been for the Crown Vic's "Bumper of the Ram" and "Seats of Safety."

My characters staggered out of the wreckage and smoke only to see a grenade "tink... tink..." onto the hood of their car. It detonated and injured everyone. The last big Russian baddie emerged from the smoke wielding a sword. We drew our guns and blasted away, but he swung his blade and ran up and chopped my Gunfighter down. So, my Strong/Soldier character got into a melee fight with him and the henchman rolled a natural 20 and skewered my PC through his skull, taking him to something like -25 hit points, and killed him! My Techno Mage managed to injure him with his last remaining spells, and my Body Guard got a lucky shot with his HKG3 and put him down. But it was too late for my Soldier... He was as lifeless as the mailbox we had run over and flattened on the lawn.
#2
nclanceman
Mar 21, 2008 9:13:21 Wait... so how many characters were you running?
#3
baby_kamikaize_kobold
Mar 21, 2008 9:19:01 That is quite an amazing story so what is the soldier going to play as next?
#4
ice_miller
Mar 21, 2008 12:43:50
Wait... so how many characters were you running?

In my game, I have to run four characters since I'm the only player. It was hard at first, but my GM and I have been doing it since 2003 so it's not a big deal any more.
#5
ice_miller
Mar 21, 2008 12:52:02
That is quite an amazing story so what is the soldier going to play as next?

My GM is an old D&D player, and our d20 Modern game has a lot of Urban Arcana flavor in it, so he gave me the option of having a Raise Dead spell on him or creating a new character one level lower. I wanted my Soldier back, so he got raised and came back level 13. He had to pay for it, but Department 7 provided the mage to cast the spell.

When my character died, I was shocked and a little bit ****** off. But I got over it because I know my GM didn't "do" it to me, it was the outcome of a situation and dice rolling. And after the fact, I'm glad that there is the threat of death for characters because it is the ultimate price to pay for foolish actions. As long as a GM is fair about encounter levels, the potential for character death serves as a check and balance system within the game.
#6
winternova
Mar 22, 2008 13:01:28 This does bring up an interesting question - how many of you use rules to... well... keep characters alive?

I love 'deadly' systems, dangerous situations. Situations that end up with victory or escape by the skin of one's teeth. I want my players to be at the edge of their seats - maybe a little scared.

That being said, I don't want to kill them, I just want them to think that they can die at any time. If they DO die, I've got a couple systems to prevent needless paper waste.

The first is what we call the 'get out of death free card.' Any hero levels one through three may use this rule once to avoid what, at these levels, are often times 'stupid' deaths. The combination of average or below average hit point rolls, and lucky enemy shots, poor judgement, bad save, or a poor drive check on a high bridge can really ruin a guy's fun. The hero simply avoids the damage, and hopefully learns, cos the hero only gets one and it only lasts through third level.

The second rule is the 'a lesser man would have died' rule. Once per combat, a hero who takes enough damage to drop him below 0 hit points has two options: he takes the hit, and risks dying if he thinks his allies can drag him out of there, or he declares 'a lesser man would have died.' If he declares, he suffers a debilitating injury. He may lose a limb, or even be rendered paralyzed, but he's not dead - a lesser man would have died.

The second rule works well in my future campaign, as cybernetic replacements and advanced gene therapy can aid in the recovery of nearly any injury. Unfortunately, cybernetics carry with them a social stigma that can be hard to overcome.
#7
ice_miller
Mar 22, 2008 13:22:22
This does bring up an interesting question - how many of you use rules to... well... keep characters alive?

I love 'deadly' systems, dangerous situations. Situations that end up with victory or escape by the skin of one's teeth. I want my players to be at the edge of their seats - maybe a little scared.

That being said, I don't want to kill them, I just want them to think that they can die at any time. If they DO die, I've got a couple systems to prevent needless paper waste.

The first is what we call the 'get out of death free card.' Any hero levels one through three may use this rule once to avoid what, at these levels, are often times 'stupid' deaths. The combination of average or below average hit point rolls, and lucky enemy shots, poor judgement, bad save, or a poor drive check on a high bridge can really ruin a guy's fun. The hero simply avoids the damage, and hopefully learns, cos the hero only gets one and it only lasts through third level.

The second rule is the 'a lesser man would have died' rule. Once per combat, a hero who takes enough damage to drop him below 0 hit points has two options: he takes the hit, and risks dying if he thinks his allies can drag him out of there, or he declares 'a lesser man would have died.' If he declares, he suffers a debilitating injury. He may lose a limb, or even be rendered paralyzed, but he's not dead - a lesser man would have died.

The second rule works well in my future campaign, as cybernetic replacements and advanced gene therapy can aid in the recovery of nearly any injury. Unfortunately, cybernetics carry with them a social stigma that can be hard to overcome.

Interesting thoughts, Winternova. I like the incorporation of cybernetics in your future campaign. I used to play a game called Rifts where an injured player practically had to get bionics. In d20, the consequences for death are level loss, which is pretty bad when you spend a lot of time trying to gain experience, but it's not as bad as having to throw away your character sheet. As long as one has access to a Raise Dead spell, the PC can come back to fight again.
#8
winternova
Mar 22, 2008 15:10:52 Thanks mate.

I was aware of Rifts, but I never knew anything about it. I had a few friends who played, but I've always been a one-system kinda guy

The get out of death free card and lesser man would have died rules are more or less compensation for the lack of access to raise dead spells. I don't use the LMWHD rules in D&D campaigns, cos someone invariably draws the short straw and rolls a priest. While my modern campaigns are a hodge-podge of just about everything, raise dead is exceedingly rare.

In the future, death is death. There are no magic spells, or special powers to bring one back from the dead, save for a high-level field medic.
#9
j0lt
Mar 22, 2008 23:59:26 I really like that LMWHD idea, I'm gonna have to steal it for my campaigns, though I may add an action point cost. :D
#10
winternova
Mar 23, 2008 2:32:45
I really like that LMWHD idea, I'm gonna have to steal it for my campaigns, though I may add an action point cost. :D

You know what? I like the sound of that.

Only problem I can see is a combat where things just aren't going the heroes' way, and they're spending an action point every round. If they already burnt a point to improve a near miss, then they're just going to have to lay there and bleed - a fate which may or may not be worse than spending the next couple rounds burning action points on search checks to find the limb which may or may not have blown through the front window of a pizzeria - which may or may not be offering three pies for five bucks each.
#11
j0lt
Mar 23, 2008 3:01:22 When does the action point reset happen? At the beginning of their turn? At the end? At the beginning of the round?
#12
kzak
Mar 23, 2008 7:15:46 I'd say that when a character uses an action point, they can't use a new one until it's their turn again.

E.g. a PC with initiative 15 uses an action point. He won't be able to use a new action point until his turn at initiative 15 the next round.
#13
crwydryny
Mar 23, 2008 10:23:52
This does bring up an interesting question - how many of you use rules to... well... keep characters alive?

i use the same basic rules I've always used in all the RPG's I've played. basically it's like this. if the player's do something stupid (and I mean really stupid like charge straight into the enemy's lair scraming) then they die (call it natural selection lol) if they use their brains and come up with intresting plans and such then I bend the rules slightly in their favour. though the higher level they get the less inclined I am to be on their side in order to keep the game intrresting. basically if they think i won't let them die they would just waltz into the middle of the enemy ambush and do like any 1980's action hero (take 50 hits from heavy weapons with no ill effect and just gun down the enemy) so I make sure they know that stupidity = death (actually results in a some really cool stealth action. I've had players do things from setting up "macgyverisms" i.e fitting guns to tripwires and rigging fork lifts for remote control to making a big noise to draw the enemy out then crawl through a ventalation shaft and sneaking up behind the enemy (cue ominous click of a shotgun being pumped behind your head)

we even had one mission where the enemy were using huge military combat droids to ambush our team (lots of near future tech in the game). think of it this the enemy commander waiting outside the front door of the building with something like 30 soldiers a huge robot with rocket launchers and heavy machine guns (read miniguns) and three smaller robots armed with minigiuns. (yep the team done that much damage to the previous team sent to capture them that they sent in what would easiy match a 3rd world army)
the team comander had just a few moments to decide whether they would fight or surrender. meanwhile the teams technical expert. had snuck out through a seccond hidden exit unknown to the rest of the team. before anyone knew what was happening the robots suddenely turned on the troops distracting the enemy while the team run for cover inside the building until all the shooting stopped.
#14
winternova
Mar 23, 2008 14:34:45 Action points, I believe, reset at the top of the round. Otherwise you run into a scenario where the hero is on a slower count than his enemy, and spends a point on his turn to improve a poor attack roll, then can't spend one during his opponent's turn next round.

I do have one player that keeps trying to do completely reckless things. He's going to be mostly metal by the end of the campaign.
#15
kjakan
Mar 25, 2008 8:11:31
In my game, I have to run four characters since I'm the only player. It was hard at first, but my GM and I have been doing it since 2003 so it's not a big deal any more.

While I can see this work it still strikes me as a bit weird.

-K
#16
winternova
Mar 25, 2008 14:58:43 My group's one hapless hero short of a classic adventure quartet. I just made sure they knew about the sidekick and minion feats. At least one of 'em bit. Now the group has a nigh-invincible war machine on their side.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ice_miller Mar 21, 2008 3:23:45	One of my characters died in tonight's d20 Modern game. He was a 14th level Strong/Soldier in a squad with three other Department 7 agents. We had located this Russian terrorist on the run, posing as a business man and living in a nice house in the 'burbs. We stormed his house only to find he had three henchmen with him and his family for protection. A raging gun battle ensued with a Fireball spell thrown in for good measure. Just when things were going my characters' way after having killed one of the big Russian thugs, the two remaining henchmen rushed the family out the side door and into the garage where they dove into a tricked out Hummer and sped down the driveway and across the lawn onto the street. My PCs pursued and jumped into our "enhanced" Ford Crown Vic. We exchanged a few pot shots at each other before the Hummer gained some speed and rounded a corner. My character hammered the accelerator, and we had a chase on our hands. Our Crown Vic flew around a bend only to see the Hummer clip the rear bumper of a Rent-A-Cop's patrol car and skid sideways to avoid smashing into a house. Coming to a full stop, the thugs leaned out the windows, and one of them had a freaking LAW rocket launcher! The rocket struck our car and blew apart the front end while we were moving, knocking the hit points down to 2. Windshield blow out, hood on fire, and black smoke pouring from our ride, my character floored the accelerator pedal and we rammed the stopped Hummer, t-boning it full force. The impact of the crash flipped the truck on its side, killing all of the occupants but one. My PCs were injured as well, but would have been worse had it not been for the Crown Vic's "Bumper of the Ram" and "Seats of Safety." My characters staggered out of the wreckage and smoke only to see a grenade "tink... tink..." onto the hood of their car. It detonated and injured everyone. The last big Russian baddie emerged from the smoke wielding a sword. We drew our guns and blasted away, but he swung his blade and ran up and chopped my Gunfighter down. So, my Strong/Soldier character got into a melee fight with him and the henchman rolled a natural 20 and skewered my PC through his skull, taking him to something like -25 hit points, and killed him! My Techno Mage managed to injure him with his last remaining spells, and my Body Guard got a lucky shot with his HKG3 and put him down. But it was too late for my Soldier... He was as lifeless as the mailbox we had run over and flattened on the lawn.
#2 nclanceman Mar 21, 2008 9:13:21	Wait... so how many characters were you running?
#3 baby_kamikaize_kobold Mar 21, 2008 9:19:01	That is quite an amazing story so what is the soldier going to play as next?
#4 ice_miller Mar 21, 2008 12:43:50	Wait... so how many characters were you running? In my game, I have to run four characters since I'm the only player. It was hard at first, but my GM and I have been doing it since 2003 so it's not a big deal any more.
#5 ice_miller Mar 21, 2008 12:52:02	That is quite an amazing story so what is the soldier going to play as next? My GM is an old D&D player, and our d20 Modern game has a lot of Urban Arcana flavor in it, so he gave me the option of having a Raise Dead spell on him or creating a new character one level lower. I wanted my Soldier back, so he got raised and came back level 13. He had to pay for it, but Department 7 provided the mage to cast the spell. When my character died, I was shocked and a little bit ****** off. But I got over it because I know my GM didn't "do" it to me, it was the outcome of a situation and dice rolling. And after the fact, I'm glad that there is the threat of death for characters because it is the ultimate price to pay for foolish actions. As long as a GM is fair about encounter levels, the potential for character death serves as a check and balance system within the game.
#6 winternova Mar 22, 2008 13:01:28	This does bring up an interesting question - how many of you use rules to... well... keep characters alive? I love 'deadly' systems, dangerous situations. Situations that end up with victory or escape by the skin of one's teeth. I want my players to be at the edge of their seats - maybe a little scared. That being said, I don't want to kill them, I just want them to think that they can die at any time. If they DO die, I've got a couple systems to prevent needless paper waste. The first is what we call the 'get out of death free card.' Any hero levels one through three may use this rule once to avoid what, at these levels, are often times 'stupid' deaths. The combination of average or below average hit point rolls, and lucky enemy shots, poor judgement, bad save, or a poor drive check on a high bridge can really ruin a guy's fun. The hero simply avoids the damage, and hopefully learns, cos the hero only gets one and it only lasts through third level. The second rule is the 'a lesser man would have died' rule. Once per combat, a hero who takes enough damage to drop him below 0 hit points has two options: he takes the hit, and risks dying if he thinks his allies can drag him out of there, or he declares 'a lesser man would have died.' If he declares, he suffers a debilitating injury. He may lose a limb, or even be rendered paralyzed, but he's not dead - a lesser man would have died. The second rule works well in my future campaign, as cybernetic replacements and advanced gene therapy can aid in the recovery of nearly any injury. Unfortunately, cybernetics carry with them a social stigma that can be hard to overcome.
#7 ice_miller Mar 22, 2008 13:22:22	This does bring up an interesting question - how many of you use rules to... well... keep characters alive? I love 'deadly' systems, dangerous situations. Situations that end up with victory or escape by the skin of one's teeth. I want my players to be at the edge of their seats - maybe a little scared. That being said, I don't want to kill them, I just want them to think that they can die at any time. If they DO die, I've got a couple systems to prevent needless paper waste. The first is what we call the 'get out of death free card.' Any hero levels one through three may use this rule once to avoid what, at these levels, are often times 'stupid' deaths. The combination of average or below average hit point rolls, and lucky enemy shots, poor judgement, bad save, or a poor drive check on a high bridge can really ruin a guy's fun. The hero simply avoids the damage, and hopefully learns, cos the hero only gets one and it only lasts through third level. The second rule is the 'a lesser man would have died' rule. Once per combat, a hero who takes enough damage to drop him below 0 hit points has two options: he takes the hit, and risks dying if he thinks his allies can drag him out of there, or he declares 'a lesser man would have died.' If he declares, he suffers a debilitating injury. He may lose a limb, or even be rendered paralyzed, but he's not dead - a lesser man would have died. The second rule works well in my future campaign, as cybernetic replacements and advanced gene therapy can aid in the recovery of nearly any injury. Unfortunately, cybernetics carry with them a social stigma that can be hard to overcome. Interesting thoughts, Winternova. I like the incorporation of cybernetics in your future campaign. I used to play a game called Rifts where an injured player practically had to get bionics. In d20, the consequences for death are level loss, which is pretty bad when you spend a lot of time trying to gain experience, but it's not as bad as having to throw away your character sheet. As long as one has access to a Raise Dead spell, the PC can come back to fight again.
#8 winternova Mar 22, 2008 15:10:52	Thanks mate. I was aware of Rifts, but I never knew anything about it. I had a few friends who played, but I've always been a one-system kinda guy The get out of death free card and lesser man would have died rules are more or less compensation for the lack of access to raise dead spells. I don't use the LMWHD rules in D&D campaigns, cos someone invariably draws the short straw and rolls a priest. While my modern campaigns are a hodge-podge of just about everything, raise dead is exceedingly rare. In the future, death is death. There are no magic spells, or special powers to bring one back from the dead, save for a high-level field medic.
#9 j0lt Mar 22, 2008 23:59:26	I really like that LMWHD idea, I'm gonna have to steal it for my campaigns, though I may add an action point cost. :D
#10 winternova Mar 23, 2008 2:32:45	I really like that LMWHD idea, I'm gonna have to steal it for my campaigns, though I may add an action point cost. :D You know what? I like the sound of that. Only problem I can see is a combat where things just aren't going the heroes' way, and they're spending an action point every round. If they already burnt a point to improve a near miss, then they're just going to have to lay there and bleed - a fate which may or may not be worse than spending the next couple rounds burning action points on search checks to find the limb which may or may not have blown through the front window of a pizzeria - which may or may not be offering three pies for five bucks each.
#11 j0lt Mar 23, 2008 3:01:22	When does the action point reset happen? At the beginning of their turn? At the end? At the beginning of the round?
#12 kzak Mar 23, 2008 7:15:46	I'd say that when a character uses an action point, they can't use a new one until it's their turn again. E.g. a PC with initiative 15 uses an action point. He won't be able to use a new action point until his turn at initiative 15 the next round.
#13 crwydryny Mar 23, 2008 10:23:52	This does bring up an interesting question - how many of you use rules to... well... keep characters alive? i use the same basic rules I've always used in all the RPG's I've played. basically it's like this. if the player's do something stupid (and I mean really stupid like charge straight into the enemy's lair scraming) then they die (call it natural selection lol) if they use their brains and come up with intresting plans and such then I bend the rules slightly in their favour. though the higher level they get the less inclined I am to be on their side in order to keep the game intrresting. basically if they think i won't let them die they would just waltz into the middle of the enemy ambush and do like any 1980's action hero (take 50 hits from heavy weapons with no ill effect and just gun down the enemy) so I make sure they know that stupidity = death (actually results in a some really cool stealth action. I've had players do things from setting up "macgyverisms" i.e fitting guns to tripwires and rigging fork lifts for remote control to making a big noise to draw the enemy out then crawl through a ventalation shaft and sneaking up behind the enemy (cue ominous click of a shotgun being pumped behind your head) we even had one mission where the enemy were using huge military combat droids to ambush our team (lots of near future tech in the game). think of it this the enemy commander waiting outside the front door of the building with something like 30 soldiers a huge robot with rocket launchers and heavy machine guns (read miniguns) and three smaller robots armed with minigiuns. (yep the team done that much damage to the previous team sent to capture them that they sent in what would easiy match a 3rd world army) the team comander had just a few moments to decide whether they would fight or surrender. meanwhile the teams technical expert. had snuck out through a seccond hidden exit unknown to the rest of the team. before anyone knew what was happening the robots suddenely turned on the troops distracting the enemy while the team run for cover inside the building until all the shooting stopped.
#14 winternova Mar 23, 2008 14:34:45	Action points, I believe, reset at the top of the round. Otherwise you run into a scenario where the hero is on a slower count than his enemy, and spends a point on his turn to improve a poor attack roll, then can't spend one during his opponent's turn next round. I do have one player that keeps trying to do completely reckless things. He's going to be mostly metal by the end of the campaign.
#15 kjakan Mar 25, 2008 8:11:31	In my game, I have to run four characters since I'm the only player. It was hard at first, but my GM and I have been doing it since 2003 so it's not a big deal any more. While I can see this work it still strikes me as a bit weird. -K
#16 winternova Mar 25, 2008 14:58:43	My group's one hapless hero short of a classic adventure quartet. I just made sure they knew about the sidekick and minion feats. At least one of 'em bit. Now the group has a nigh-invincible war machine on their side.