Combat Fear + Dreadnought - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Combat Fear + Dreadnought

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kuma_kode
Feb 07, 2009 19:28:22 So, I have a big mutant ex-soldier who is planning on taking the dreadnought class. He happened to take the Combat Fear mutation. However, the dreadnought class has Fearless as a first level ability, which states that the dreadnought is immune to fear effects. I'm wondering if this also means his Combat Fear goes away.

Because the fear is caused by a chemical imbalance caused by a genetic mutation, I don't see it going away just because he got some tough training, any more than he can go from being irish to chinese through training. Part of me also doesn't want him nullifying a 4 point drawback for free. And finally, Fearless states that it protects against fear effects, not fear in general. It is phrased as if it were implying external fear abilities, like that from a spell or from a dragon's frightful presence.

What do you guys think? Am I being too harsh? How would you handle that?
#2
degausser
Feb 07, 2009 20:18:47 Sounds to me like this is another example player is trying to cheat the rules. He takes a disadvantage, then tries to render it moot later. I had a player take the poison blood mutation, then try to buy the nanobots that scrub poison from your system.

Personally, I wouldn't let him get away with it. Fearless will still let him be immune to other fear-inducing things, such as psychotropic drugs, magical effects (if you have them), particularly scary situations, and applications of the intimidate skill, but I wouldn't let him get away with this scott free.
#3
Master_Vega
Feb 07, 2009 20:32:53 How about swapping the drawback? Perhaps the intense training, or maybe administered treatments, triggered a change in the chemical imbalance, giving him the Mindslave and Lethargy drawbacks? He wouldn't have to actually be lethargic; he's just so tipped towards aggression that defensive reaction is a much lower priority for him than the normal character.

This reduces the headache of deciding what Fearless covers and does not cover.
#4
backstabbist
Feb 08, 2009 0:42:48 My call...quick & simple
No, the Dreadnought Fearles does not apply to CombatFear mutation.
Fearless is for thig that effect you, not your own problems effecting yourself.

What is the big deal anyway.
The Fearless will still be working on everything it works on for normal folks, so you dont lose anything away from your class ability. And the mutation is still only as bad as it is for everyone else.
#5
kuma_kode
Feb 08, 2009 0:53:28 Thanks for all the replies. I guess he's still stuck with his Combat Fear. I just wanted to see what others were thinking before I made the official ruling. Thanks for the help!
#6
backstabbist
Feb 08, 2009 23:11:36 Just wondering
did the guy play the character up from 1st level with the Fear,
or is he building a midlevel guy that happened to not have to play any levels with the Fear?
#7
kuma_kode
Feb 08, 2009 23:19:02 Played it from first level.

He did try Extra Arms + Lost Arms X 2, which would have allowed him to have the benefits of an extra pair of arms for a the few points of wealth it would require to replace the missing ones with cybernetics, since Extra Arms and Lost Arms counteract. He also tried to select various ability related mutations (like egghead and brute) to effectively play musical chairs with the penalties to maneuver them to an ability score he didn't care for. So, he's a bit of a habitual min-maxer. Which is why I don't feel bad for making him stick with the Combat Fear.
#8
rhialto
Feb 09, 2009 1:28:35 As a house rule, you could say the two counteract each other. the overall result would be a character who has neither fearless nor combat fear. Although that is probably still giving him too much advantage, since combat fear would potentially affect every encounter, whilst external fear efects are situational.
#9
narukagami
Feb 09, 2009 21:49:10
As a house rule, you could say the two counteract each other. the overall result would be a character who has neither fearless nor combat fear. Although that is probably still giving him too much advantage, since combat fear would potentially affect every encounter, whilst external fear efects are situational.

He'd also get the advantage of the 4 mutation points for no real drawback. Which is actually pretty big, because d20 Future is broken.
#10
winternova
Feb 10, 2009 15:32:18 I'm another vote for counteraction. His training's hardened him into something formidable, but he's hardly the pillar of confidence he could have been if he hadn't gone into it as damaged goods. I'll bet his will save isn't particularly high, either.
#11
rhialto
Feb 10, 2009 16:05:15
He'd also get the advantage of the 4 mutation points for no real drawback. Which is actually pretty big, because d20 Future is broken.

Not really. He is still losing the benefit of the class feature for those.
#12
backstabbist
Feb 10, 2009 16:22:18 That is a trade of EVERY combat suffering a Fear Save from the mutation
vs
the just the uncommon occurance of a Fear Effect being used on him.

In the last 10 fights,
how many times has the opposition used Fear Effect on the party?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kuma_kode Feb 07, 2009 19:28:22	So, I have a big mutant ex-soldier who is planning on taking the dreadnought class. He happened to take the Combat Fear mutation. However, the dreadnought class has Fearless as a first level ability, which states that the dreadnought is immune to fear effects. I'm wondering if this also means his Combat Fear goes away. Because the fear is caused by a chemical imbalance caused by a genetic mutation, I don't see it going away just because he got some tough training, any more than he can go from being irish to chinese through training. Part of me also doesn't want him nullifying a 4 point drawback for free. And finally, Fearless states that it protects against fear effects, not fear in general. It is phrased as if it were implying external fear abilities, like that from a spell or from a dragon's frightful presence. What do you guys think? Am I being too harsh? How would you handle that?
#2 degausser Feb 07, 2009 20:18:47	Sounds to me like this is another example player is trying to cheat the rules. He takes a disadvantage, then tries to render it moot later. I had a player take the poison blood mutation, then try to buy the nanobots that scrub poison from your system. Personally, I wouldn't let him get away with it. Fearless will still let him be immune to other fear-inducing things, such as psychotropic drugs, magical effects (if you have them), particularly scary situations, and applications of the intimidate skill, but I wouldn't let him get away with this scott free.
#3 Master_Vega Feb 07, 2009 20:32:53	How about swapping the drawback? Perhaps the intense training, or maybe administered treatments, triggered a change in the chemical imbalance, giving him the Mindslave and Lethargy drawbacks? He wouldn't have to actually be lethargic; he's just so tipped towards aggression that defensive reaction is a much lower priority for him than the normal character. This reduces the headache of deciding what Fearless covers and does not cover.
#4 backstabbist Feb 08, 2009 0:42:48	My call...quick & simple No, the Dreadnought Fearles does not apply to CombatFear mutation. Fearless is for thig that effect you, not your own problems effecting yourself. What is the big deal anyway. The Fearless will still be working on everything it works on for normal folks, so you dont lose anything away from your class ability. And the mutation is still only as bad as it is for everyone else.
#5 kuma_kode Feb 08, 2009 0:53:28	Thanks for all the replies. I guess he's still stuck with his Combat Fear. I just wanted to see what others were thinking before I made the official ruling. Thanks for the help!
#6 backstabbist Feb 08, 2009 23:11:36	Just wondering did the guy play the character up from 1st level with the Fear, or is he building a midlevel guy that happened to not have to play any levels with the Fear?
#7 kuma_kode Feb 08, 2009 23:19:02	Played it from first level. He did try Extra Arms + Lost Arms X 2, which would have allowed him to have the benefits of an extra pair of arms for a the few points of wealth it would require to replace the missing ones with cybernetics, since Extra Arms and Lost Arms counteract. He also tried to select various ability related mutations (like egghead and brute) to effectively play musical chairs with the penalties to maneuver them to an ability score he didn't care for. So, he's a bit of a habitual min-maxer. Which is why I don't feel bad for making him stick with the Combat Fear.
#8 rhialto Feb 09, 2009 1:28:35	As a house rule, you could say the two counteract each other. the overall result would be a character who has neither fearless nor combat fear. Although that is probably still giving him too much advantage, since combat fear would potentially affect every encounter, whilst external fear efects are situational.
#9 narukagami Feb 09, 2009 21:49:10	As a house rule, you could say the two counteract each other. the overall result would be a character who has neither fearless nor combat fear. Although that is probably still giving him too much advantage, since combat fear would potentially affect every encounter, whilst external fear efects are situational. He'd also get the advantage of the 4 mutation points for no real drawback. Which is actually pretty big, because d20 Future is broken.
#10 winternova Feb 10, 2009 15:32:18	I'm another vote for counteraction. His training's hardened him into something formidable, but he's hardly the pillar of confidence he could have been if he hadn't gone into it as damaged goods. I'll bet his will save isn't particularly high, either.
#11 rhialto Feb 10, 2009 16:05:15	He'd also get the advantage of the 4 mutation points for no real drawback. Which is actually pretty big, because d20 Future is broken. Not really. He is still losing the benefit of the class feature for those.
#12 backstabbist Feb 10, 2009 16:22:18	That is a trade of EVERY combat suffering a Fear Save from the mutation vs the just the uncommon occurance of a Fear Effect being used on him. In the last 10 fights, how many times has the opposition used Fear Effect on the party?