Coup de Grace against an unaware enemy? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Coup de Grace against an unaware enemy?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
andrewm1
Aug 11, 2010 12:46:44 Hi,

I've got a quick question regarding the coup de grace move - I'm playing a D20 Modern game, and one of my players manages to sneak up behind a guard, who's sitting at a computer. The player then goes "I put my gun to the back of his head, and pull the trigger - that should be a coup de grace".

His argument makes intuitive sense - the guard is completely unaware of him, and thus can't defend himself against being shot in the back of the head, and if a direct point-blank shot to the back of the head isn't a coup de grace, I don't know what is. That said, the rules surrounding the coup de grace move require the opponent to be helpless, which according to the SRD rules is "bound, sleeping, paralyzed, unconscious, or otherwise at your mercy" - I'm not sure if this situation would qualify.

What do people here think? Would you allow the player to treat that as a coup de grace?
#2
Soulsbane
Aug 11, 2010 15:54:02 Well, if I read correctly, the person performing a coup de grace, has to concentrate for a full round in order to actually do it. In that case, there is a possibility that some intuition on the guard's part (perhaps a glint in a monitor, a heard breath escaping, etc.) might get him to either turn or take a defensive action (like that feeling of being watched that makes you turn around for no reason). Whatever the case may be, I think it's purely up to the GM how it's going to be played out.

I hope that makes sense and helps you out.
#3
Felix1459
Aug 11, 2010 17:36:11 It could go either way but you could do the coup and file it under "otherwise at your mercy."
#4
TheRealOrion
Aug 11, 2010 17:53:27 Strictly speaking, there is no way to do that in Modern because, as Soulsbane pointed out, Coup de Graçe is a full-round action, and as you noted, it requires that the subject be fully helpless. I would argue that what that player was trying to do is actually called a "Sneak Attack," but no such thing exists in Modern, so we basically have a big gaping hole in the RAW vs. what you "should" be able to do. If that character wants to do stuff like that, I'd recommend that you whip up a custom feat or Talent Tree that simulates the Sneak Attack in some way, but instead of simply multiplying damage, you could have it inspire a Massive Damage check or something like that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 andrewm1 Aug 11, 2010 12:46:44	Hi, I've got a quick question regarding the coup de grace move - I'm playing a D20 Modern game, and one of my players manages to sneak up behind a guard, who's sitting at a computer. The player then goes "I put my gun to the back of his head, and pull the trigger - that should be a coup de grace". His argument makes intuitive sense - the guard is completely unaware of him, and thus can't defend himself against being shot in the back of the head, and if a direct point-blank shot to the back of the head isn't a coup de grace, I don't know what is. That said, the rules surrounding the coup de grace move require the opponent to be helpless, which according to the SRD rules is "bound, sleeping, paralyzed, unconscious, or otherwise at your mercy" - I'm not sure if this situation would qualify. What do people here think? Would you allow the player to treat that as a coup de grace?
#2 Soulsbane Aug 11, 2010 15:54:02	Well, if I read correctly, the person performing a coup de grace, has to concentrate for a full round in order to actually do it. In that case, there is a possibility that some intuition on the guard's part (perhaps a glint in a monitor, a heard breath escaping, etc.) might get him to either turn or take a defensive action (like that feeling of being watched that makes you turn around for no reason). Whatever the case may be, I think it's purely up to the GM how it's going to be played out. I hope that makes sense and helps you out.
#3 Felix1459 Aug 11, 2010 17:36:11	It could go either way but you could do the coup and file it under "otherwise at your mercy."
#4 TheRealOrion Aug 11, 2010 17:53:27	Strictly speaking, there is no way to do that in Modern because, as Soulsbane pointed out, Coup de Graçe is a full-round action, and as you noted, it requires that the subject be fully helpless. I would argue that what that player was trying to do is actually called a "Sneak Attack," but no such thing exists in Modern, so we basically have a big gaping hole in the RAW vs. what you "should" be able to do. If that character wants to do stuff like that, I'd recommend that you whip up a custom feat or Talent Tree that simulates the Sneak Attack in some way, but instead of simply multiplying damage, you could have it inspire a Massive Damage check or something like that.