I have designed a system for using Dragon Ball Z in the d20 system (I can hear the groans now and I know what you're thinking, 'who hasn't?') and I would like to get some outside opinions... and rest assured I tried my hardest to maintain a sense of balance so that it wouldn't be the overpowering DBZ fanboy work everybody is used to seeing in thse kinds of things.
Anyway, I'd like to get some outside opinions from playtesters from outside my group. So please, let me know what you think.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/c84d7447-a85e-4fbb-90af-9d05184fb2e8/DBZ-v5.1
Thanks,
Nominrath
Though looks good so far.
I like it.
Seems like a pretty solid concept, but the Disciple of Kaio-Sama seems to make the Super Saiyan prestige class look like childs play. Considering Strength & Dexterity can get +10, mix that with the Z-Fighters Flurry of Blows.
Though looks good so far.
I like it.
Thanks, I'm glad someone finally took the time to look at it.
Child's play? I don't know, I thought the Legendary SS's +8 STR, +6 DEX, +8 CON, DR 5/- and growth in size was pretty fair (if not slightly tipped in the SS's favor).
But like I said, it seems like a pretty solid concept, but in my opinion, it is pretty far from perfect. Just maybe tweak it abit, add alittle more variety than the one base class, kinda make it like the three classes from "The Nine Swords" book. One would be better evasive with more chi powers, one would be more powerful but at the cost of less chi powers (Considering we didn't see any of the characters display a huge variety of powers). Then maybe one could be built for more endurance (Look at most of the villians, could take hits from over four characters and wouldn't be that banged up).
But, this is my opinion.
I agree with adding more base classes, but how about also adding something like a techie class of some sort. I mean Bulma and Dr. Briefs were not Z-fighters, also how about adding a cpl more races, like human, Buu, and Icer for example. I think you should give players more of a selection, although for the most part it's kinda difficult because the way it is shown on screen leaves little to work with. That's where imagination comes in :o). There are many different ideas you could add to make it better, but by far is the best D20 DBZ game I have seen. I am hoping to see a few changes with the next one.
I love the suggestions! :D I'm just trying to keep the whole thing balanced and playable without becoming fanboy super system. :D
I agree the screen and the manga alike leave little to work with, that's why the add-on is as slim as it is. As for using my imagination... I'd rather not make guesses or make stuff up... I tried very hard to make the information authentic, taking as little liberties as possible. The only other race that I think would be worth making would be Freeza's... but like you said, there isn't much to work with and I don't want to make up too much stuff. At that point, it isn't what Toriyama made, it becomes what I made it and that's not cool.
Buu, on the other hand, is unique. From what I understand, he was a one of a kind creation; kind of like a squishy Frankenstein's monster and this, at least to me, knocks him out of the races race and places him in the monster department.
On the note of other non-Z-fighter classes and average races (such as humans), this wasn't meant to be a standalone thing... so, any 'techie'-type or other classes and races should be covered in whatever system you choose to use (d20 Modern, for example). Ever since I started, I've toyed with a 'Majin' class... Only problem is, we don't see much of Bibidi's or Babidi's spellcasting and what we do see can easily be replicated by existing spells. So essentially he's just a sorcerer with the Majin tag.
But the Dexerity bonus, that is pretty much a huge + to it if not wearing any armor at all. If the Super Saiyan does grow in size, it will have a hard time to actually land a huge blow on it. Plus it could be wiped out considering one could Spirit Bomb the hell outta them.
But like I said, it seems like a pretty solid concept, but in my opinion, it is pretty far from perfect. Just maybe tweak it abit, add alittle more variety than the one base class, kinda make it like the three classes from "The Nine Swords" book. One would be better evasive with more chi powers, one would be more powerful but at the cost of less chi powers (Considering we didn't see any of the characters display a huge variety of powers). Then maybe one could be built for more endurance (Look at most of the villians, could take hits from over four characters and wouldn't be that banged up).
But, this is my opinion.
And I appreciate the opinions... that's why I posted.
I would've thought a SS that lasts 3 + new CON modifier rounds would beat out a KK that lasts only one, especially if a KK manages to damage it's user.
Well, anyhow, if this seems a problem, have you got any suggestions to fix it?
As for the Genki-Dama, if he can charge it with enough power, without getting interrupted, by all means, melt the sucker. That's what it's for, right? :D
As for adding other core classes, I like the idea, but how to emphasize the qualities mentioned? (I've never seen the Nine Swords book)
Super Saiyan= Jesus
Super Saiyan 2= God
Super Saiyan 3= Why isn't the earth exploding at this point?
Well, for the three base classes, this is how I would do it. (You don't need the book to understand most of this.
) But here is a suggestion for all the classes, take away that Perfect bonus to Will Saves, and maybe add in Slow Fall. Just something to give it that nice Dragon Ball Z like flavor.
But basically, the two besides the Endurance are lightly based off SwordSage and Warblade, SwordSage is the weakest, but can learn the most martial manuevers along with having bonuses to speed and intiative. Basically a Wizard version of a Fighter. Warblade had full BAB, d10 HP, can get Fighter Feats, but he learned the least amount of martial manuevers.
(I hate stealing ideas from pre-made stuff, but the SwordSage and Warblade work perfectly into here.
)Sumiyaka
I would give him a the Dodge and Uncanny Dodge feats as he goes up through the levels. Maybe give him a little higher AC progression (Like one more point). More Chi Powers than the other two classes (Keep the Z-Fighter Chi Power List), since they focus less on physical power. Bonus to intiative. Throw in d8, along with Average BAB, then you got yourself a class.
Ryoku
Keep basically all the stuff from Z-Fighters (But reduce the Chi Power list abit and add in Perfect BAB), but add in some stuff to fill in those dead levels. Maybe bonus feats?
Taikyuu
Simple. d12 HP, Better AC Progression, Opinion to add in Con rather than Dex to the player's AC, Higher Chi Power chart than Ryoku, Barbarian Damage Reduction progression, Average BAB, Poor Reflex Saves. Maybe take away Flurry Of Blows? I never saw Recoome or Nappa hit anyone with punches of rapid sucession.
X_x
Okay that took alittle longer than expected, but this is a outline, I could do the whole thing, but that would take awhile.
EDIT: But as for the Majin thing you brought up earlier, that could be a good idea, like a slightly pernament increase in power. But that does sound alittle over-powered doesn't it?
No, I love the Kaio-Ken, just would be kinda cool to see someone in a game actually stand up to a Super Saiyan. (Rather than the anime, where you go Super Saiyan, your power is this)
Super Saiyan= Jesus
Super Saiyan 2= God
Super Saiyan 3= Why isn't the earth exploding at this point?
Well, for the three base classes, this is how I would do it. (You don't need the book to understand most of this.
But here is a suggestion for all the classes, take away that Perfect bonus to Will Saves, and maybe add in Slow Fall. Just something to give it that nice Dragon Ball Z like flavor.
But basically, the two besides the Endurance are lightly based off SwordSage and Warblade, SwordSage is the weakest, but can learn the most martial manuevers along with having bonuses to speed and intiative. Basically a Wizard version of a Fighter. Warblade had full BAB, d10 HP, can get Fighter Feats, but he learned the least amount of martial manuevers.
(I hate stealing ideas from pre-made stuff, but the SwordSage and Warblade work perfectly into here.
Sumiyaka
I would give him a the Dodge and Uncanny Dodge feats as he goes up through the levels. Maybe give him a little higher AC progression (Like one more point). More Chi Powers than the other two classes (Keep the Z-Fighter Chi Power List), since they focus less on physical power. Bonus to intiative. Throw in d8, along with Average BAB, then you got yourself a class.
Ryoku
Keep basically all the stuff from Z-Fighters (But reduce the Chi Power list abit and add in Perfect BAB), but add in some stuff to fill in those dead levels. Maybe bonus feats?
Taikyuu
Simple. d12 HP, Better AC Progression, Opinion to add in Con rather than Dex to the player's AC, Higher Chi Power chart than Ryoku, Barbarian Damage Reduction progression, Average BAB, Poor Reflex Saves. Maybe take away Flurry Of Blows? I never saw Recoome or Nappa hit anyone with punches of rapid sucession.
X_x
Okay that took alittle longer than expected, but this is a outline, I could do the whole thing, but that would take awhile.
EDIT: But as for the Majin thing you brought up earlier, that could be a good idea, like a slightly pernament increase in power. But that does sound alittle over-powered doesn't it?
Like the ideas, here's what I think...
Z-Bruiser:
Bump HD to a d10, use Con instead of Wis (Bruisers would rely more on the strength of their bodies to shoulder a blow rather than a '6th' sense...), change dominant save to Fort, average BAB (otherwise he'd just be a fighter in disguise) and a slower progression on the chi power scale/lower chi level. Take away Flurry of Blows and add a power similar to the feat Power Attack.
'A Z-Bruiser is a Z-fighter that relies more on his physical prowess to get him through a fight rather than his skill.'
Z-Striker (working title
):Bump HD to d6 (since choosing speed over endurance...) Change dominant save to Ref. Gets evasion and uncanny dodge as abilities (somewhere down the line) and gets Weapon Finesse (unarmed) 1st level.
'A Z-Striker is a Z-fighter who focuses more on speed and agility rather than endurance and strength.'
Z-chi super user (definitely a working title...):
Bump HD to d4, change dominant save to Will, faster progression on the chi power scale/higher chi level. Take away flurry of blows, add bonus metachi feats.
'A Z-chi super user is a Z-fighter that devotes almost all of his training to the mastery of chi.'
For the progression chi powers, I think that should remain unchanged... after all, in reality, there aren't that many and getting them too quick could pose a big balance issue. Instead a higher chi level might be more desireable, this allows the chi-user more chi to use...
Thanks for the ideas, let me know what you think of my interpetations.
Z-Striker: d8
Chi User: d6
But I would change the Z-Title thing, sorry, but it seems alittle cheesy. Not all of them were Z-Fighters, that was just the group that was there to protect the earth.
Sounds pretty good, though I would bump up the Striker and Chi-User's Hit Dice up alittle. Cause if there is one thing in Dragon Ball Z that is a universal knowledge, is that fights don't last afew seconds, they can go on... and on...
Z-Striker: d8
Chi User: d6
But I would change the Z-Title thing, sorry, but it seems alittle cheesy. Not all of them were Z-Fighters, that was just the group that was there to protect the earth.
True enough, but in the d20 world, if spellcasters (which is what chi-using is, in theory) had the same HD as fighters and such, then there would be no point in them, since you could just get the best of both worlds... It's already walking dangerously close to that line. It's about balance between this and everything else in d20... not just what DBZ was.
The Z-title thing is kind of cheesy, I admit, but it's hard to really label such a class without copying something else that's already been done and keep it DBZ. Z-fighter jsut seemed the logical term for it and in the glossary I explain that in the anime, it was Goku and his gang and in the book it just refers to a chi-using class. So, for example, Recoome would have levels in Z-fighter as a class, but that doesn't mean he was a 'Z-Fighter'. Anywho, got any suggestions, I'd love to hear them... but a lot of people don't know Japanese, so using Japanese terms should be avoided...
At the very least have the characters not reach anything close to a Saibaman's strength until level 10. Just look at him and think of what kind of HP normal people would have. The farmer with a shotgun would have to have a fraction of a hit point and even then, a saibaman wouldn't be able to kill him instantly with its self-destruct ability unless it got maximum damage.
Have the characters reach lvl 40 before they start needing to know the hardness and HP of the planet they're on.
There is plenty of stuff in Dragon Ball (note the lack of a "Z") to make a fun system that people may respect. If you make such a system and have it possible for it to be used for DBZ stuff when the characters reach high enough lvls, then it will probably still be able to be respected. That is my advice to you and all others who seek to create a DBZ D20.
There is one thing that I feel is necessary for a good DBZ D20, and that is for it to start out as a DB D20 and expand into DBZ territory. You don't need to have level 1 characters able to beat up Hercule without breaking a sweat. Have a time when the farmer with a shotgun from the first DBZ episode could actually be a threat.
At the very least have the characters not reach anything close to a Saibaman's strength until level 10. Just look at him and think of what kind of HP normal people would have. The farmer with a shotgun would have to have a fraction of a hit point and even then, a saibaman wouldn't be able to kill him instantly with its self-destruct ability unless it got maximum damage.
Have the characters reach lvl 40 before they start needing to know the hardness and HP of the planet they're on.
There is plenty of stuff in Dragon Ball (note the lack of a "Z") to make a fun system that people may respect. If you make such a system and have it possible for it to be used for DBZ stuff when the characters reach high enough lvls, then it will probably still be able to be respected. That is my advice to you and all others who seek to create a DBZ D20.
If you're going to offer advice or criticism on my material, read it first. Don't just jump to conclusions. The fact that you posted this proves one of two things; either, a.) you didn't even look at my material and automatically assumed that since it's DBZ-based that it's already over powered. Or, b.) you did look at it and either didn't want to or couldn't understand it.
Yeah, I could have started in DB, but DBZ is the time when Goku's (and the rest of his crew) adult adventures started... just like in other RPGs. They usually don't have you start out in childhood and grow from there...
P.S. - If you look at my material, you might rethink your assumptions.
I am sick and tired of this "All Anime Character's are Epic!"
NO!
They don't need to be epic, there is ways for people to create them at lower levels, even Sesshomaru could be a SwordSage/Warlock in the non-epic levels for all we know.
But I will agree, it appears that this guy did not read the material at all. Cause with this d20 system, it appears that someone entering Super Saiyan in the level 40 area would destory "planets" or even rip a whole in the galaxy for all we know.
P.S.
Nominrath, how does a epic level Super Saiyan 4 thing sound?
I know it would be pretty strange to devote one class to a transformation, but we can throw in the Super Saiyan Ozzuro (I know I mispelled) and maybe a bonus feat.
I am sick and tired of this "All Anime Character's are Epic!"
NO!
They don't need to be epic, there is ways for people to create them at lower levels, even Sesshomaru could be a SwordSage/Warlock in the non-epic levels for all we know.
But I will agree, it appears that this guy did not read the material at all. Cause with this d20 system, it appears that someone entering Super Saiyan in the level 40 area would destory "planets" or even rip a whole in the galaxy for all we know.
P.S.
Nominrath, how does a epic level Super Saiyan 4 thing sound?
I know it would be pretty strange to devote one class to a transformation, but we can throw in the Super Saiyan Ozzuro (I know I mispelled) and maybe a bonus feat.
Thank you for the support, Ryumon.
Actually, in one of my previous editions I had a short section devoted to GT, the 'Epic Level' section of Dragon Ball. It has some epic feats, an epic class, and some other stuff that I can't remember right now. I ultimately axed it in this edition because, to be honest, I don't like GT all that much (but I have been thinking about reworking it and putting it back in...). I'll post the previous edition with it so you can take a look and tell me what you think.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/01be8f77-c00b-47d9-9776-2723e0e480f9/DBZv4.7
I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU LEFT IT OUT! :D
That is pretty good, I really love how you actually gave statistics for each of the Shadow Dragons. Seriously, this makes up for how medicore GT actually was.
(Though I like playing GT characters in the Budokai games)
I would love for you to bring this back in, keep it as it is, I can't think of a better epic progression for Dragon Ball Z.
I am sick and tired of this "All Anime Character's are Epic!"
I'm not saying that all anime characters are epic. I just think that anything that can destroy a planet is epic. If I'm not mistaken, Frieza had destroyed Namek once (OK, so he had merely set off a chain reaction that destroyed it, but my point still stands), and he's only got a challenge rating of 8 according to this system. Not even D&D's Tarrasque with its challenge rating of 20 was capable of destroying a planet.
Frieza was meant to be an epic villain for Goku to overcome. He destroyed multiple planets (didn't he destroy planet Vegeta while he was only in his 1st form?) and it was going to take someone who was at least 100 times as strong as a human to even beat his strongest minions.
So I ask you... At what point does a character end up being considered as epic?
Yeah, I could have started in DB, but DBZ is the time when Goku's (and the rest of his crew) adult adventures started... just like in other RPGs. They usually don't have you start out in childhood and grow from there...
While they usually don't have you start out in childhood, they also tend to assume that the character is one who couldn't defeat the world's strongest assasins during childhood *cough*General Tao*cough*.
Kaio Ken is supposed to enhance every aspect of the user's being, even their senses, but your version just raises Str and Con.
Ascended Super Saiyans were very strong, but slow, like psychofeedback. Your versions give the transformation a higher Dex score than the normal SSJ.
The Triform and Multiform techniques do not create clones; each body is as much the original as any other (probably with a quarter of the hit points and 4 negative levels). Whenever the technique is used, the bodies re-fuse at the end. Presumably, if all but one of the bodies were destroyed, the remaining body would return to the strength of the original over time (Fort saves to resist negative levels).
Oh, and I find it kind of weird that Cell's first form is CR 3. A small group of humans with guns could defeat that without too much trouble.
(Which we were talking about earlier)
And maybe edit up Kaio-Ken abit?
He can make enemies stronger, check out the earlier version of the Dragon Ball Z d20 he posted awhile earlier. Those Shadow Dragons are f*cking EPIC!
Some minor niggles:
Kaio Ken is supposed to enhance every aspect of the user's being, even their senses, but your version just raises Str and Con.
Ascended Super Saiyans were very strong, but slow, like psychofeedback. Your versions give the transformation a higher Dex score than the normal SSJ.
The Triform and Multiform techniques do not create clones; each body is as much the original as any other (probably with a quarter of the hit points and 4 negative levels). Whenever the technique is used, the bodies re-fuse at the end. Presumably, if all but one of the bodies were destroyed, the remaining body would return to the strength of the original over time (Fort saves to resist negative levels).
Oh, and I find it kind of weird that Cell's first form is CR 3. A small group of humans with guns could defeat that without too much trouble.
I might have fudged a bit on the villain's CRs and stuff, but I wanted to keep them reasonable... Maybe I did have them underpowered... but then again... maybe not. Cell's first form never fought anybody. We didn't get to see Cell in action until he had attained his Imperfect form and even then, while more powerful than his original form, he was still losing to Vegeta.
The reason I made the Kaio-Ken the way I did is because if it did enhance everything (as I know it should), then it would be too much like the Super Saiyan ability... In my introduction, I explained that I had to take a few 'liberties' with the source material. I mean, in reality, if you think about it, the Big Bang, the Kamehameha, the Buster Cannon, the Tri-Beam... they're all relatively the same thing: chi attacks that go boom. The same goes with the Kaio-Ken... It, in theory, is very similar, if not a dumbed down, version of the Super Saiyan. So, to avoid staleness and introduce variety, certain things had to be altered...
I know that it isn't 'true' to the way it works in the manga or the show, but I think it is still close enough, while being different from the Super Saiyan, to pass the bar.
As for the Ascended Super Saiyan, I think you are only partially correct. The form I wanted to represent in my material is that form that Goku and Vegeta attained that was more powerful than the first, but still retained most of it's speed... not that hulking, slow mass of muscles that Trunks became. (Which I believe some fans and such refer to as the 'Ultra Super Saiyan'.)
The Tri-Form/Multiform technique is an issue of balance, rather than remaining true to the original. I know that it should create perfectly functional copies and when I first designed it (in my notes) I did do it your way, almost to the T; everything divided by four and such. But in the end, it proved too powerful that way.
You were talking about keeping this game as close to the actual DBZ universe as possible, but like I stated before, you left out quite a few races and there is plenty you can do with " classes ". Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if this was an oversight or if you left them out purposely. If on purpose, my question would be, why? Also wanted to state that your right about Buu being more of a monster than a race :o). I can admit when I am wrong. In my personal opinion, with a little more work this could be an excellent stand alone game.
Yes, I did leave a lot open intentionally... mainly because I designed this material as an add-on to d20 systems, not a stand-alone item. I addressed mainly DBZ issues and assumed that other issues would be covered in whatever system the user chose to apply it. That is why you don't see a whole lot in the material.
The Chi-Powers section do help that aspect a bit, but it still doesn't propel them to the heights of power that were prescribed in the anime.
Keep in mind, to me that's totally fine if you're just going after the flavor and not the actual power level of the original DBZ.
Or you can simply go the other direction, and make the mundane even MORE mundane before. So basically, most humans will effective have 1 hp and be basically helpless against any character with PC levels. This is done in a lot of games that want to promote the heroic proportions of the PCs. Often times, in games like this the mooks and redshirts effectively are just cannon fodder who can't do any thing really effective.
Of course, by doing that you're going to end up making this into a stand alone game.
But I honestly do believe, if one person tried to stat out Saiyans and Namekians, they would have a level adjustment. (Unlike most people, I do believe saiyans have a damage reduction of some sort, plus the Namekians fusion ability, which I have vague ideas on how to work it)
But the way you stated them out was just fine, good for a base race.
but if you ask me, that just means it's not really DBZ anymore. Or rather, it changes the dynamics a lot. that's just how I feel. I'm not saying all anime characters are automatically epic, but I do feel that most DBZ character are. I mean, that's practically how the series was defined.
well, yeah, he answered it, and it's certainly addressed.
but if you ask me, that just means it's not really DBZ anymore. Or rather, it changes the dynamics a lot. that's just how I feel. I'm not saying all anime characters are automatically epic, but I do feel that most DBZ character are. I mean, that's practically how the series was defined.
Bravo. You have hit the nail right on the head. I was just going for the DBZ flavor and feel. If I did go for actual DBZ, the chracters would be truly epic. And you're right the characters in the anime were epic. But they were epic in a way that couldn't be measured by any system...
Personally, I've 'stated' out Goku using my system. With 20 levels in Z-fighter (he probably had somwhere between 7-10 at the start of Z), 10 levels in Disciple and 8 (maybe 9) levels in Super-Saiyan, you get a character that's level 38 by the Buu Saga. (with some amazing power, too, even if it is 'weakened')... and if I recall correctly, charactes that are 20+ are epic.
The overall point is, who wants to play a copycat? The system was designed so that you can customize your own warrior with a DBZ feel. Sure, you're never going to truly reach the levels of Goku, but who can? If that's what you want, feel free to edit it to suit your needs. I wanted a feasible, balanced system not an overpowered fanboy game of doom.
to me, an actual DBZ game would start approaching the level of free-form gaming instead. But that's neither here nor there.
anyway, the shortage of base-classes I think is not so much a problem of your lack of creativity, but a problem with the series in general. After all, if you look around, you'll notice that pretty much by DBZ, there really isn't much of a distinction between warrior to warrior except whose got
It's not to say that other styles don't exist. It's just that they are for the most part... irrelevant. The only person that shows any level of diversity and growth beyond just raw numbers is Goku himself.
This is the problem with the series.
If you want to bridge that gap, you'll kind of need to do a little extrapolating yourself on some hypotheticals.
i.e. what if say, Yamcha were to grow on par with the rest of the casts? What if say, Tenshinhan were to? what differentiates Yamcha from Tenshinhan? or better yet, what if Chao-zu was on the same playing field as Goku? what marks their difference?
the core of DBZ lies in the sci-fi physical brawl aspect. And that's fine and dandy. But to make it an actual playable setting? It'll need a lot more added to it.
anyway, the shortage of base-classes I think is not so much a problem of your lack of creativity, but a problem with the series in general. After all, if you look around, you'll notice that pretty much by DBZ, there really isn't much of a distinction between warrior to warrior except whose gotthe bigger battle power *****more power. It becomes pretty much a scale that measures characters against each other as opposed to a diversity of different styles, with different strengths coming into play. (Arguably, this is where naruto has done a much better job)
Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems with adapting DBZ, and one of the thigns that drew me to Naruto (Demon Ice Mirrors FTW! :D)
Another problem is that there will be a lot of epic NPCs running around, so a DBZ setting would have the same problems as Forgotten Realms, only ten times greater (Elminster never nuked the Moonshae Isles 'cos he felt like it)
consider what/how other character options scale with the existing DBZ classes
I don't just mean Namek fighting vs. Saiyan or something. Consider what happens when say, Chao-zu/Tenshinhan's old school scales with Saiyan powers. Consider what happens when say, Yojirobe were to advance far enough along to fight along side the other DBZ characters.
color technology
you need to fill in the equipment list with DBZ relevant tech, and then add in some of your own.
Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems with adapting DBZ, and one of the thigns that drew me to Naruto (Demon Ice Mirrors FTW! :D)
Another problem is that there will be a lot of epic NPCs running around, so a DBZ setting would have the same problems as Forgotten Realms, only ten times greater (Elminster never nuked the Moonshae Isles 'cos he felt like it)
Which is why I 'powered down' the villains and left the main NPCs (i.e. Goku, Vegeta, etc.) out. To me, it was about having the ability to create my own DBZ experiences without overshadowing others (especially those whose cup of tea wasn't DBZ). It wasn't about following in Goku's footsteps. (If I wanted to do that, I would just watch the anime or read the manga.) :D
Being a balanced add-on, rather than a super-powered stand-alone thing, allows me to do this without begging the players who weren't DBZ fans
to cooperate. This way they can still be their Monks 
, Fighters :fight!:, Wizards 
, etc. and not worry about me (the odd one out :allalone overpowering them...P.S. You have to admit that watching Elminster lay waste to Moonshae would still be cool to see... :D
P.S. You have to admit that watching Elminster lay waste to Moonshae would still be cool to see... :D
The man can throw prismatic spheres, and slaughter armies with his pipe. Hell yes.
well, in any case, I feel that if Nominrath wants to really give his DBZ game some extra color, he'll need to do the following:
consider what/how other character options scale with the existing DBZ classes
I don't just mean Namek fighting vs. Saiyan or something. Consider what happens when say, Chao-zu/Tenshinhan's old school scales with Saiyan powers. Consider what happens when say, Yojirobe were to advance far enough along to fight along side the other DBZ characters.
color technology
you need to fill in the equipment list with DBZ relevant tech, and then add in some of your own.
Character scale:
I did scale it to other classes. That's why it took me almost 3 years to finish it. Balancing it against other classes, playtesting, modifying it, taking suggestions from my players... It's actually quite a daunting task. Why don't YOU compare it and tell me how it doesn't compare or work so I can fix it rather than just tell me to do something that I've already done.
Take any character and compare it to a character in the Z-fighter class (Saiyan, Namekian, whatever) and you'll see that it does match quite well. The DBZ stuff might have a slight edge, but nothing that probably couldn't be easily overlooked without tipping the scales too much.
Also, PLEASE quit referencing specific characters and look at the class on it's own. There's no such thing as the Tien class or the Krillin class...
Equipment:
What equipment am I missing? Capsules? Easy enough to remedy. Take an object and say that it has the ability to turn into a small capsule at the push of a button and back again. Done. Want guns and stuff? Use d20 Modern or even Star Wars. I think the only useful item I'm missing would be the scouter...
Like I said, people: ADD ON, not stand-alone.
Then a epic leveled one, based off the GT-Fighter and Super Saiyan 4 of your old system, were just going to tag team on some of the Shadow Dragons. Since they are beautifully built and epic, I can't help it.
EDIT: But may I then suggest, rather than a Tien class or Krillian kinda styles, maybe feats? Like "Turtle Hermit Training." Gives like a bonus when using the Kamehameha? Just a suggestion. It will take less effort and a pretty easy solution rather than different base classes besides Z-Fighter or the three we talked about earlier.
Nominrath, actually, I am going to go and play test your system with afew of my players. I am doing a low leveled campaign, nothing special, group of saiyans clearing a planet. (Maybe Gnome genocide?)
Then a epic leveled one, based off the GT-Fighter and Super Saiyan 4 of your old system, were just going to tag team on some of the Shadow Dragons. Since they are beautifully built and epic, I can't help it.
EDIT: But may I then suggest, rather than a Tien class or Krillian kinda styles, maybe feats? Like "Turtle Hermit Training." Gives like a bonus when using the Kamehameha? Just a suggestion. It will take less effort and a pretty easy solution rather than different base classes besides Z-Fighter or the three we talked about earlier.
Wonderful idea! I like it! I'll get to work on it right away and add it in! :D Even better... instead of different feats for the styles, they become specializations... like a Wizard. Taking a particular 'path' or style gives you an extra power, but then you can't learn certain other powers. How's that sound?Kinda adds diversity, instead of people learning how to use Galick Gun and Kamehameha.
Actually, these specializations might eliminate the use of more base classes, considering there could be a player with differences with the same class. Though I would still and try to find something to fill in those dead levels abit. Even if it is supposed to be a fighting wizard, it looks kinda empty.
But to be honest, it isn't all that dead... if you think about it... they get different abilities all the time in the form of their chi powers. At least that's my reasoning... but if there's something else that can fill it (without toppling it into the realm of epicness that everybody else seems to think it is), I'm open to suggestions.
Or as you go, power up or speed up the need for gathering Chi? You know, get more than 1 point per round?
Cause powering up seems alittle dragged on, considering if your level 20, and you need to power up your 8 Chi so you can continue, it would take about 8 rounds to fill it up, by then you can be dead if your opponent doesn't gather some too.
As for styles, I am stumped... but then, I've been rethinking it as I'm trying to do it... Although specializations seem a good idea, it basically sets up the Goku template, the Vegeta template, etc... That was something I wanted to avoid. I wanted each individual character with the ability to choose his own powers. (He doesn't have to keep their names :P, he can rename it to whatever they want. If he wanted, he could take the Kamehameha and rename it to the 'Blue Light of Doom'. :D) No... Actually, I think the variations in class are actually the way to go.
Need any help or ideas? Come to me, as you can tell, I have been ga-ga over this thing since you posted it.
Though another suggestion... maybe alittle something for the Namekians? You got some stuff for Saiyans. But then again, how would you do that?
You never learned awhole lot of the Nameks and the powers that they carry, only fusion and regeneration.But, throwing it out there, cause they do seem alittle lonely.
The namekians are rather lonely... but then they got something other races don't have: the ability to regenerate their whole bodies as long as their head remains intact.
But if that doesn't cut it, maybe a Namekian Guardian or something along those lines. A prestige that's like a mildly souped up version of the Z-fighter and gives the namekian the ability to assimilate other nameks. (Like Piccolo and Nail. I don't count Kami and Piccolo because they were essentially one being at one time.)
I just mean creating more base classes based on the other characters on the show.
i.e. maybe a class for Namek's. Namek Guardian would make a decent PrC, but I wonder what would be a good base class for most normal Namek warriors. (my gut tells me that Z-fighter is a pretty niche kind of base class to take)
Dende, for example, probably has a class of his own. While I see you have a healing line chi-power, I don't recall any other character other than Dende actually healing people. But if I were to try to build him, I'll end up having him being pretty much on par with the other Z-fighters of the same level, despite his counter part on the show being essentially non-combative. so I would suggest some kind of base class that focuses more on the "odd powers" aspects that the Nameks have. Maybe call it Namek Counselor or Namek Adept or something along those lines.
This also means though, that you'll have to split the powers up into individual fields and that can get tricky. To save yourself some work, you could potentially just take the Cloistered Priest (it's basically a cleric without the armor and BAB), change up some of the mechanics and give it some Chi powers and you'll be set.
some other things:
- I think it would be helpful if you clear up the language concerning Chi-level stacking for the PrCs.
- destructo disk does 1d6+lvl of damage, and is level 2. dondon ray, also a level 2, does 1d6 per level. the expected damage at it's max potential for the destructo disk is 3.5+10 = 13.5. The dondon ray would be 3.5 x10 = 35 damage. the destructo disk is clearly an inferior move in this regard, despite being a move of the same level.
Ancient Namek fighting style (Nail - seems to focus on speed and be very effective against higher level opponents)
Dark Namek (Maou Piccolo and Lord Slug abilities - size changing, great stretching, spawning minions) - Demon King Piccolo seemed to be a mutated version of a "queen" Namek like Guru.
Demon (Dabura and that guy in the rubber suit from DB - uses abilities that differ from chi powers in the way invocations differ from spells, gains "slay non-good" as a capstone ability)
Majin Sorcerer (Babidi - thrallherd who can either buff his thralls or grant them a minor template)
Techies should also have a PrC which allows them to slowly convert themselves into an Android, like Dr. Gero.
In ToB, all maneuvers (short of the desert wind disciplines) work within an anti-magic shell. It strikes me that the Chi-powers should function the same instead of be suppressed by dead-magic zones.
relax dude, I don't mean scaling in terms of comparing it to the core classes. As it stands, the z-fighter class is right now about on par with psychic warrior and around the same as any ToB character in terms of raw power. (I might have to run some more numbers on it but as is it seems to fit fairly well)
I just mean creating more base classes based on the other characters on the show.
i.e. maybe a class for Namek's. Namek Guardian would make a decent PrC, but I wonder what would be a good base class for most normal Namek warriors. (my gut tells me that Z-fighter is a pretty niche kind of base class to take)
Dende, for example, probably has a class of his own. While I see you have a healing line chi-power, I don't recall any other character other than Dende actually healing people. But if I were to try to build him, I'll end up having him being pretty much on par with the other Z-fighters of the same level, despite his counter part on the show being essentially non-combative. so I would suggest some kind of base class that focuses more on the "odd powers" aspects that the Nameks have. Maybe call it Namek Counselor or Namek Adept or something along those lines.
This also means though, that you'll have to split the powers up into individual fields and that can get tricky. To save yourself some work, you could potentially just take the Cloistered Priest (it's basically a cleric without the armor and BAB), change up some of the mechanics and give it some Chi powers and you'll be set.
some other things:
- I think it would be helpful if you clear up the language concerning Chi-level stacking for the PrCs.
- destructo disk does 1d6+lvl of damage, and is level 2. dondon ray, also a level 2, does 1d6 per level. the expected damage at it's max potential for the destructo disk is 3.5+10 = 13.5. The dondon ray would be 3.5 x10 = 35 damage. the destructo disk is clearly an inferior move in this regard, despite being a move of the same level.
Wasn't taking offense, more like preparing a defense... I've gotten a lot of attacks since I posted this thing even though all I was looking for was some playtesters and some suggestions to make it better.
Thanks for the suggestions for the Namekians... I guess I did kind of overlook them a bit when designing this thing... The Namek Healer idea is good, but it would still be a PrC since no core class is limited by race. Also, you have to remember, Dende wasn't really a frontline type hero, his only power was that of healing... he was a heal bot. Who really just wants to play that?
And another thing I'm trying to avoid is the 'Who wants to play [insert character name here]?' effect. A lot of people reference specific characters like Goku, Dende, Yajirobe, etc. ("But Goku did this...", "But Goku could do that...", "If Tien was this...")... To be honest, I don't care about the characters... they've already been established in the DBZ universe. I'm not trying to translate them into d20. My system was designed so that you could play your own DBZ character... not a copycat.
Seperating the powers into categories is a freakin' nightmare. :D I just recently tried to do it when I came up with the not-as-brilliant-as-I-thought-it-was-at-the-time idea of specializations.
Stacking Chi Levels: In the Chi System chapter it states "In the case of multi-classing with other chi-using classes or creatures, chi levels do not stack. The highest chi level granted is considered the chi level of the character."
Destructo Disc: You might want to re-read it. It does 1d6+1 per level/max=10d6+10 vs. the Dodon Ray's 1d6 per level/max=10d6. This makes the Disc superior in terms of damage, but the Ray has an area effect.
PrCs I would recommend:
Ancient Namek fighting style (Nail - seems to focus on speed and be very effective against higher level opponents)
Dark Namek (Maou Piccolo and Lord Slug abilities - size changing, great stretching, spawning minions) - Demon King Piccolo seemed to be a mutated version of a "queen" Namek like Guru.
Demon (Dabura and that guy in the rubber suit from DB - uses abilities that differ from chi powers in the way invocations differ from spells, gains "slay non-good" as a capstone ability)
Majin Sorcerer (Babidi - thrallherd who can either buff his thralls or grant them a minor template)
Techies should also have a PrC which allows them to slowly convert themselves into an Android, like Dr. Gero.
Well, I have the Androids in the Villains section and there are templates for the two types covered in DBZ (Energy-absorbing & Infinite Energy). Like I said in a previous post, if you want a 'techie' look in d20 Modern or even d20 Star Wars.
I have been tinkering with Majin thing ever since I started and to be completely fair, being a 'Majin' Sorcerer didn't seem to be all that different from any other Sorcerer... Maybe it's more of a society thing. If anything I would say it's more like a Red Wizard of Thay or something of that nature.
Demons don't need a PrC, thats a race and a race that's already covered in several different forms over countless Monster Manuals and Monster Manual add-ons and such... I would think he's just a monster with class levels. EX: Dabura would probably have some levels in Z-fighter and some Cleric and/or Blackguard.
I like the Ancient Namek fighting thing... that's basically how I was going to gear my Namekian Gaurdian thing... but I don't know about the Dark Namek thing.
Personally, as a GM, I try to discourage players from playing evil characters. They have a tendency to disrupt gameplay and that ruins the game for everyone. You usually get one of two situations; either a.) everybody jumps on the bandwagon and you get a whole party of evil with each character plotting and scheming against each other. or b.) you get one guy who insists on spoiling the adventure in odd ways because he's 'playing his character'. From my experience, players tend to use evil characters as an excuse to d*** around. I know there are players who can do it... and I applaud them, but they are few and far between. Offering evil classes is like throwing oil on a fire.
And I keep restating it, but I'm trying to avoid copycat characters. Everybody keeps suggesting a class for this character and that character... Well, if I did it that way, there would be over 20 different classes... I'd have to have one for Goku, for Gohan, for Yamhca, for Tien, etc... The Z-fighter class is designed to incorporate traits from all the character's styles and allow the player to design his own.
I am also curious as to how you guys would handle the interaction between the Chi-system and the Tome of Battle system as well as psionics.
In ToB, all maneuvers (short of the desert wind disciplines) work within an anti-magic shell. It strikes me that the Chi-powers should function the same instead of be suppressed by dead-magic zones.
I've never seen the ToB book, but the reason I applied the anti-magic thing to chi powers is actually quite simple. There are two. 1.) Since the Z-fighter can recharge his chi so quickly, he essentially has the ability to cast an infinite number of times a day. This is limited during battle because he can only regen 1/round, so during combat, his rate of fire becomes severely hampered and recharging leaves him extremely vulnerable. 2.) I labeled the chi system as a spell-like ability and just used the standard drawbacks for them.
It just comes down to one thing: It's there to act as a counter balance, otherwise, there would be no stopping the chi powers... except with other chi powers. Z-fighters would be flinging them out of their a-holes left and right and nobody would be able to do anything about it except hope for good Reflex saves. :D
Well, I have the Androids in the Villains section and there are templates for the two types covered in DBZ (Energy-absorbing & Infinite Energy). Like I said in a previous post, if you want a 'techie' look in d20 Modern or even d20 Star Wars.
Still, what about making a transformational class like Dragon Disciple or Green Star Adept?
Demons don't need a PrC, thats a race and a race that's already covered in several different forms over countless Monster Manuals and Monster Manual add-ons and such... I would think he's just a monster with class levels. EX: Dabura would probably have some levels in Z-fighter and some Cleric and/or Blackguard.
It was more of a "demonic powers" type class, which should appeal to demons but not be restricted to them.
I like the Ancient Namek fighting thing... that's basically how I was going to gear my Namekian Gaurdian thing... but I don't know about the Dark Namek thing.
Come on, you can't say you've never had the urge to spawn an army named after musical instruments from eggs. :P
Still, what about making a transformational class like Dragon Disciple or Green Star Adept?
It was more of a "demonic powers" type class, which should appeal to demons but not be restricted to them.
Come on, you can't say you've never had the urge to spawn an army named after musical instruments from eggs. :P
I figured at that point we'd be playing *shudders* Pokemon.
I like the demon powers thing, but there aren't many 'DBZ' unique demon powers.
A transformational class? For the Nameks? What would they turn into?
The demon powers include stone saliva and magnifying the evil in someone's heart until they explode.
(I know, I have the Legendary Super Saiyan in there which isn't canon either, but, then again, it kind of is... Vegeta prattles on about it during the Vegeta, Namek and Freiza sagas.)
Is that it for 'demon powers'? Seems a waste of time to try and design an entire new class based on two new minor abilities. (Granted being able to make someone explode because they're evil isn't exactly 'minor', but it would be so heavily restricted and you wouldn't get it till the end of the track... or at the very least midway.)
I personally don't think you should have a Namek Healer class either. But rather a namek caster class that focuses more on the mystical and cultural aspects of the Nameks. We know that Dende's abilities also extends to speaking to the Dragon, so maybe some kind of ability that ties into that. (could be as simple as a language skill though) We know that the namek elder, prior to his death, was able to raise Krillin's ability a little too. We just need to expand upon that. of course, we could just simply make that particular namek character a cleric or something and not bother making the base class at all.
They didn't 'transform' into Androids... they were built. Now they're a modified version of their base race. That's why it's a template, not a class. It's kind of like becoming a vampire or lycanthrope (except you're now a construct). An android/cyborg wouldn't get better over time just because he's an android... he'd have to get better equipment. If you wantedd to play a straight android, as in a purely mechanical AI (like #16), that would probably make an interesting race (so to speak), but not a class. Also, once 'constructed' (if you intent was to transform them afterwards), how would that be? The only one who did it was #13 and technically, he's non-canon. Even if you do base it on that, he did it by copying Cell (in theory); absorbing other Androids.
No, most of the androids weren't built from scratch. The androids were normal humans who Dr. Gero, in Krillin's words, "remodelled a bit". He also managed to do this to himself, becoming #20.
A techie who is capable of creating implants could add more and more to himself over the course of a few levels until he is a full android. That would make a cool class. Even if you don't make a Dragon Disciple style class, something like this would be appreciated.
No, most of the androids weren't built from scratch. The androids were normal humans who Dr. Gero, in Krillin's words, "remodelled a bit". He also managed to do this to himself, becoming #20.
I didn't say 'built from scratch', I just said built. (#17, #18 & #20 were in fact cyborgs, while #16 and #19 were indeed built from scratch.)
A techie who is capable of creating implants could add more and more to himself over the course of a few levels until he is a full android. That would make a cool class.
The problem with this is that an android isn't some creature adapting to a new way of life like other transitions. Well, he is, but not in a way that would grant him new abilities over a period of time. A 'technological person' could add more and more upgrades and implants, I'm just saying that a class is a poor way to represent that. Upgrades and implants should be built and/or bought, like potions, scrolls, etcs. They shouldn't just 'happen'. Levels represent getting better because you're training at something (or in this case, transitioning into a totally different being) not just getting better because the level says so. So, ultimately, this 'techie' would get better at applying and building android parts, but he wouldn't automatically get them. He would have to devote the time, money, parts and maybe even experience into constructing them and applying them (whether he chose to apply them to himself, like Dr. Gero, or to others is another matter). If there was a weaponsmith level, would he get better weapons just because he was higher level? No. He'd have the capacity to make better weapons, but he wouldn't automatically get them.
But, hey, just because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be or can't be done. Why not try to do it yourself? ;)
of course, we could just simply make that particular namek character a cleric or something and not bother making the base class at all.
;) That's why, under the namekian race description, their chief diety is listed as Porunga (their dragon) and their favored class is Cleric. :D Seemed the logical choice...
you CREATE an android with it's own stat blocks, but a cyborg is just a template you add onto a creature. (making a cyborg potentially more powerful)
I think a better way to go is you treat it just like creating a golem. You'll need primarily caster levels (or in the case of the techie, maybe just "techie" levels), money, a lab, and the right spells (read: specialized skills) to do the job.
you CREATE an android with it's own stat blocks, but a cyborg is just a template you add onto a creature. (making a cyborg potentially more powerful)
I would agree that you CREATE a golem and an android roughly the same way. (They're essentially the same thing, after all...) I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here... Are you trying to make Androids a playable race? If so, just use the Monsters as Player Races rules and use #16 as the base. And if you're still fighting for Androids being a 'class', I'm afraid that my view on that will not change. An android (whether cyborg or pure mechanical) is a machine and would need physical altering and parts to get better... not just training. They would get better in whatever they were trained (or programmed) as, say a Fighter or Druid or Sorcerer, etc., but not get better at being an android.
you're mixing arguments here. It was Prime32 who thinks androids should be a class. Me? I think that androids should be either a monster or a template, that's it.
Whoops! My apologies. You're right. Sorry, bro.
Thanks for supporting my belief of androids as a 'monster' (releatively speaking...) or a template.
Even if the show had presented the Android getting better as he moved along, I would still present it as a monster and a template. I would still argue that 'android' is more of a race (loosely speaking) and it doesn't make any logical sense to me for a race to get better.
Levels in a class are supposed to represent training and experience in some kind of niche or role. How do you train to be an android? And extending the example a little further, does this mean that I could train to be an elf or a dwarf?
Yes, he could get better parts and upgrades. But those parts wouldn't be a benefit of training and experience, they would have to be built and/or bought then applied...
Some examples of androids/cyborgs/robots...
#17 was an android programmed as a Z-fighter (for all intents and purposes). He would get better as a Z-fighter.
A terminator T-101 is an android/cyborg programmed as an assassin. He would get better as an assassin.
C-3PO is a droid programmed as a translator. He would get better as a translator.
The point is that none of these classes have anything to do with being an android. That's what he is. Like an gnome is an gnome. There's no such thing as getting better as an gnome... It's what he is. Same with an android.
Rikage CR 5
Saiyan z-fighter 5
CN Medium humanoid
Init +3; Senses: None
Languages: Common
_______________________
AC 12, touch 12, flat-footed 14
Suited RIT Armor (AC -, Dex Bonus -, ACP -2, DR 3/sonic)
hp 42
Immune: None
Resist: +5 Will saves while transforming into Oozaru.
Chi Level: 5
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4
Weakness: All the downsides to being a humanoid, grappling with the Saiyan Tail.
_______________________
Speed 30 ft. (8 squares)
Melee: unarmed strike (1d8+4, x2, bludgeoning)
Ranged: chi blast (1d4, x2, 120ft, force)
Base Atk +3; Grp +7
Atk Options: A volley of bunches for those who try and harm him, Guru Lagen any living thing in sight.
Special Actions: Flurry Of Blows, Chi Blast, Z-Strike (magic)
Chi Powers*
Level One:
After Image
Infurious Phoenix (Wolf Fang Fist)
Guru Lagen (Riot Javelin)
Destructive Wave
Level Two:
Meteor Shower
Combat Gear: Scouter (Detect Chi at will)
_______________________
Abilities Str 19, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 9
SQ: Zenkai Boost, Saiyan Tail, Alternate Form Oozaru
Feats: 10g Training, Control Oozaru
Skills: Balance (+5), Climb (+4), Concentration (+8), Jump (+7), Profession [Mercenary] (+6), Sense Motive (+2), Spot (+3), Swim (+4), Tumble (+5)
Possessions: Combat Gear, Saiyan Spaceship (Vehicle)
Quote: "Rank doesn't matter! In the end I will show you OBLIVION!"
A low ranked solider with high dreams, Rikage has always asked for more than he was able to chew, but in the heat of battle, his saiyan pride and pure brute force of the situation, always made him come out on top. At a young age he asked and begged for higher more exciting missions to embark on. While trying to side himself with more of the Elite Saiyans such as Turles and long time rival, Nappa, Rikage had been turned down left and right by the best... leaving him to fight alongside lower-class saiyans such as Bardock & His Squad. While he enjoyed the company of his saiyan kin, he just wants to ascend higher through the ranks, to show everybody that a lower class, can be the best.
(Image: VEGETA- By tobiee.deviantart.com)
Positive:
1. I love the Chi-Powers.
Really kinda pulled together all of them and gave them seperate attacks and uses rather than "A HUGE BEAM!"
2. I really enjoyed how you stated out each villian from Dragon Ball Z, and in the older version, the Shadow Dragons from GT.
I don't know why, but I feel like it adds a nice tidbit of flavor to the whole thing... but if people feel like they need to be stronger. Why not improve on what Nominrath has already laid out for you?
3. I also liked the idea that us, the players, could play or fantasy campaign about, Saiyans before Planet Vegeta was destoryed and there massacre... or create a Time Paradox to change it. :D
Negative:
1. Lack of equipment, when I was pulling together my character, I didn't know what to give him that wasn't magical, a gun, or a weapon. It was kinda hard, because, how would you explain that a saiyan has a senzu bean?
Maybe alittle more items that can be used and equipment?
Already made three myself. Suited RIT Armor, which adds another little point to Damage Reduction, but it doesn't expand when turned into Oozaru. Scouter, which is Detect Ki on demand, cause Saiyans/Frieza's crew had to rely on those things heavily in the past because they didn't know how to actually detect it. Weighted Clothing, now here is something that I thought of that I think is pretty neat.
Okay, the clothing is kinda deprived into sections. Boots, Torso, Hands. If you put on one section, you get a -1 penalty to Dex along with a -5 to base land speed, but 10% boast to experience. Add in another section, -2 to Dex, along with a -2 ACP check, and still the -5 to base speed but with 20% boast to experience. (Same as before, it doesn't get lowered) Then by adding in the final section, it would be -2 Dex, -2 ACP, -2 Reflex Saves, -10 base land speed, but at a 30% boast to experience. (Though the EXP boast seem alittle high, edit however you want, just throwing out ideas.)2. Would it honestly break the class entirely if you just throw in afew bonus feats? It would add alittle specialization and difference between players if they chose different feats (Be it from the this d20 System or the ones from 3.5 Edition)
Woah that took longer than expected. X_X
Anyways I like it! But there is afew bugs that are getting to me.
To all regarding the Android debate...
Even if the show had presented the Android getting better as he moved along, I would still present it as a monster and a template. I would still argue that 'android' is more of a race (loosely speaking) and it doesn't make any logical sense to me for a race to get better.
Levels in a class are supposed to represent training and experience in some kind of niche or role. How do you train to be an android? And extending the example a little further, does this mean that I could train to be an elf or a dwarf?
Yes, he could get better parts and upgrades. But those parts wouldn't be a benefit of training and experience, they would have to be built and/or bought then applied...
Some examples of androids/cyborgs/robots...
#17 was an android programmed as a Z-fighter (for all intents and purposes). He would get better as a Z-fighter.
A terminator T-101 is an android/cyborg programmed as an assassin. He would get better as an assassin.
C-3PO is a droid programmed as a translator. He would get better as a translator.
The point is that none of these classes have anything to do with being an android. That's what he is. Like an gnome is an gnome. There's no such thing as getting better as an gnome... It's what he is. Same with an android.
That's why I asked if you could make monster classes so that the template could be split over several levels. There are already classes for templates like vampires, as well as monsters like ogres, so that a player gaining the template doesn't suddenly leap 8 levels. If you are using these classes, it is possible to get better as an aasimar or another LA 1+ race. There are even classes for aasimar to transform into half-celestials.
Really, an android class makes no less sense than a lich class. I have no trouble imagining that converting a human into an android would place massive strain on their body if done all at once, or that their body would reject the components if they did not learn to synchronise them with their Ki (if you have the skill to build androids already, this is what the class represents)
I'm just asking for what has already been done for standard templates - it's more to smooth play than anything.
Cause the people around have guns as well, it is basically the modern age, hell, they even had hover cars.
But I guess it can be played in both areas, Saiyans would be a race of nomad's living in the desert or mountains in 3.5, and planet seeking solider's in d20 Modern.
Plus the Z-Fighter class would maybe work either or.
this helps out in the power balance, I think. You're right though, d20 modern would be more approrpriate than d20 future. I think I only say D20 future because of all the alien cultures and all that jazz. i.e. time travelling machine? capsules? (Basically bags of holding) even the scouter itself can be considered a bit of a futuristic device.
That's why I asked if you could make monster classes so that the template could be split over several levels. There are already classes for templates like vampires, as well as monsters like ogres, so that a player gaining the template doesn't suddenly leap 8 levels. If you are using these classes, it is possible to get better as an aasimar or another LA 1+ race. There are even classes for aasimar to transform into half-celestials.
Really, an android class makes no less sense than a lich class. I have no trouble imagining that converting a human into an android would place massive strain on their body if done all at once, or that their body would reject the components if they did not learn to synchronise them with their Ki (if you have the skill to build androids already, this is what the class represents)
I'm just asking for what has already been done for standard templates - it's more to smooth play than anything.
there was definitely a precedent for this in some of the other handbooks. so, I don't see it as terribly game breaking if that is the route you'd want to go, personally. But we'll see how Nominrath feels about it.
I mean, literally, it took me about five or four hours to create the simple guy.
A hour to pull the bio/name/picture all together. Half a hour setting up the sheet, three hours of going to my room for awhile (I stayed up all night X_x Forgive for any mis-spelled words), then editing the whole thing and bold... TWICE!
But I have a feeling it might get torn apart.
Second, I want everyone to know that I'm not attacking your ideas or anything like that. I appreciate all the suggestions and ideas (even the ones I don't necessarily agree with).
Now, that the formalities are out of the way, let's get to most recent posts. :D
1. Equipment: I like the scouter idea and I think at one time I even had it, but I think that since it's such an easy device to make (as you said, Detect Chi at will...), why bother? But to be fair, if I were to make it I would add a certain flaw in that sure it could be used on command, at will, but if the creature detected had above a certain power level then it breaks. (If I recall, this was a serious defect of the machine.) The suited RIT (anybody know what the hell that stands for, anyway?) armor is a good idea, I based the original off a D&D breastplate (that seemed logical to me...) I'm guessing for the suited, you're thinking more along the lines of half-plate or some other full-body suit? If that's the case, I would just use the AC bonus for half-plate, and keep the DR and elasticity (after all, the elastic qualities of the armor are what make it unique.) I don't know about the weighted clothing thing, though. Personally, I go for a simpler approach and I don't want to waste time crunching numbers about which section has this and where this bonus is coming from, etc. I think I'll use the Scouter and the Full RIT Armor, but not the clothing.
2. Bonus Feats: No, it wouldn't break the class... I think customization is a great idea, but the problem is the list of feats they would be able to take as bonus feats. The class is supposed to emphasize the chi and unarmed aspects of the fight and there aren't many feats that do that. I'm reluctant to make any of the metachi feats bonus feats because then there's no sense of sacrifice to get them. They add quite a deal of power to the class's chi abilities and to just make them available so easily seems counterproductive.
3. d20 Future/Modern vs. D&D 3..5: The classes in the DBZ material are indeed most comparable to D&D. The reason for this is simple. I used that as my basis. The Z-fighter is kind of a mutant hybrid of the Monk, the Sorcerer and a touch of Psionics for flavor. In reality, though, I think the DBZ material is best suited in a d20 Modern/Future or even Star Wars setting. As for the gun proficiencies: Why would a Z-fighter need to be proficient with a gun? Think about it, there are already classes that cover using guns (Soldiers, etc.) If a Saiyan, Namekian or whatever were to concentrate on that type of training, then wouldn't they be of those classes and not one that's mostly martial arts based? And if you want to mix it up I have one word for you: Multiclass. Remember, that you can't have everything all rolled into one.
4. The ongoing Android Debate: I think I understand. You're saying that if you wanted to make a weaker android with less of a level adjustment, you should be able to, right? But then, at the same time, now you're saying that an android with that weaker template should be able to level up and attain the higher level of android. Is this correct? If so, let me ask you what kind of training does a machine (cyborg or pure) get to become better at being a machine? None. To become a better machine, you need parts. Parts are bought or made. I agree that a lower (or even higher) level android could be built, but it would be based on his part configuration at the time he was built and he would have a lower or higher level adjustment to represent that 'configuration'. But I don't see it being represented through actual levels.
P.S. It's not that it's game-breaking, it's just that it makes no logical sense to me. My PC doesn't get better just because I use it, I would need to buy better PC parts.
5. Ryu's Character: I can see no problems with him. If I were DMing/GMing, I would allow him. Like the pic, love the background...
But I am glad you like the character, took me awhile to make because the laptop and the gleemax server were going through error's or whatever earlier this morning. So he was kinda... well... a b_itch to make. But I would love to see more opinions for more items that actual Saiyans would use in the Dragon Ball Z d20.
EDIT: Yeah and it is cool to call me Ryu XD
My name is alittle difficult, and maybe only afew Bleach fans would remember my name.
I would recommend taking a look at Monte Cooks World of Darkness if you want to see some really powerful superhuman classes that are still powerful, but are all powerful in different ways, it also allows exceptional humans to be useful, since they can do everything better than the super humans except take/dish out raw punishment.
Yeah, the weighed clothing idea was most defiantly a bi-product of me staying up too late at night.
But I am glad you like the character, took me awhile to make because the laptop and the gleemax server were going through error's or whatever earlier this morning. So he was kinda... well... a b_itch to make. But I would love to see more opinions for more items that actual Saiyans would use in the Dragon Ball Z d20.
EDIT: Yeah and it is cool to call me Ryu XD
My name is alittle difficult, and maybe only afew Bleach fans would remember my name.
Hey, I'm down for suggestions for Saiyan tech and items... problem is, we never saw any of it. So, anything that comes up would just be conjecture and as I stated somewhere earlier in this thread, that's something I'd like to avoid. As far as the Manga/Anime was concerned all items and stuff was provided by Freeza and the only real tech we see is the healing tank (bacta tanks :D ), the scouters and the RIT armor. I guess something like a Saiyan blade would be kind of neat. Kind of a ceremonial/magical katana thingy... But other than that, I can't really seeing the Saiyan's caring about any weapons or equipment they have.
P.S. There is one thing I noticed about the character... Under weaknesses you forgot to list the saiyan tail thing. ;)
My friend ran a Dragon Ball Z campaign AGES ago but found that he had to cement the power level somewhere between Dragon Ball and Z, allowing PC's to use energy blasts and such but preventing insanities like Super Saiyans and other things that made the series get real stupid real fast. He used the Palladium system for this but it seemed to work at the time.
I would recommend taking a look at Monte Cooks World of Darkness if you want to see some really powerful superhuman classes that are still powerful, but are all powerful in different ways, it also allows exceptional humans to be useful, since they can do everything better than the super humans except take/dish out raw punishment.
The Palladium system is ok, though not my favorite. My personal favorite is the White Wolf World of Darkness system. It's simple and focuses more on the storytelling rather than stats and such.
But anyway, that's cool that a friend ran his own, but (not to be rude or anything) what do you think of mine?
Hey, I'm down for suggestions for Saiyan tech and items... problem is, we never saw any of it. So, anything that comes up would just be conjecture and as I stated somewhere earlier in this thread, that's something I'd like to avoid. As far as the Manga/Anime was concerned all items and stuff was provided by Freeza and the only real tech we see is the healing tank (bacta tanks :D ), the scouters and the RIT armor. I guess something like a Saiyan blade would be kind of neat. Kind of a ceremonial/magical katana thingy... But other than that, I can't really seeing the Saiyan's caring about any weapons or equipment they have.
P.S. There is one thing I noticed about the character... Under weaknesses you forgot to list the saiyan tail thing. ;)
Most of the Saiyan technology was stolen from the Suufuls, so rewatching the Bebi arc of DBGT would be a good idea.
What about the Blutz/Bruits Wave Amplifier?
So all technology for the Saiyans, I would make it simple, like a person with a 2nd Grade Education could use these items.
I was thinking along the lines of, Suppliment Pills, little mini-nutrition, they might be on a planet with nothing edible besides the inhabitants (Vegeta showed us that at the end of DBZ Vol. 1 XD) Then the Saiyans could use that to give themselves a well rounded diet and the needed nutrition, be it clearing a planet or training.
Another thing, I know they use tanks to heal the wounded, but what if one of there own are wounded on a mission? I thought back to the Halo books that I read awhile back, and Master Chief used some sort of medical device, that basically, created this type of foam that filled up the cut, hardned, and then started to heal up the wound little by little due to the chemicals in it, kinda like a tough bandaid. Maybe heal afew hitpoints of damage?
Just things along this line, though you could add in Chi Blasters, sounds lame as hell, but Frieza's men were using them in the Namek Saga.
Hoped this helped or sparked some ideas.
What about the Blutz/Bruits Wave Amplifier?
A device that automatically allows a Saiyan to attain SS4?!? I don't think so. :D
Well, I don't have access to GT and I tend to stick to canon. Toriyama had little to do with GT aside from a few character designs. In fact, he originally intended for the franchise to end with the Freeza Saga, but was pushed to expand the series into what it is.
But aside from this, if you got any ideas lay 'em on me.
A device that automatically allows a Saiyan to attain SS4?!? I don't think so. :D
Now that would be an artefact. Less powerful versions could still be made to trigger Oozaru transformation, or grant heroism if already transformed.
Perhaps you could have android parts that could be added to a character to bestow the abilities that an android would possess. That would allow a PC to slowly become an android or for an android to be upgraded.
That's a good idea. One problem, you can't list all the possible upgrades or parts that might be wanted. Maybe one player wants and arm cannon, or maybe a shoulder cannon. Maybe an increased chi capacity, maybe booster jets. Maybe a adamantine coated skeletal structure ;) ... the list goes on and on and on... So, I would say DM/GM call.
In my personal opinion on the Saiyan race, they were born and raised warriors, what showed earlier views of the race were them covered in what looked like animal furr and might used primal weapons. (One was carrying a knife if memory recalls.) Then I look at the Bardock movie (Non-Canon I know, but it is the only evidence we got.) it seemed that the Saiyan's themselves weren't a huge fan of technology, only using it when the situation calls for it or when they are able to use it to there advantage. Why? Cause it isn't in there nature to use such things, when before Frieza, they were there to fend for themselves and maybe eat anything that they killed.
So all technology for the Saiyans, I would make it simple, like a person with a 2nd Grade Education could use these items.
I was thinking along the lines of, Suppliment Pills, little mini-nutrition, they might be on a planet with nothing edible besides the inhabitants (Vegeta showed us that at the end of DBZ Vol. 1 XD) Then the Saiyans could use that to give themselves a well rounded diet and the needed nutrition, be it clearing a planet or training.
Another thing, I know they use tanks to heal the wounded, but what if one of there own are wounded on a mission? I thought back to the Halo books that I read awhile back, and Master Chief used some sort of medical device, that basically, created this type of foam that filled up the cut, hardned, and then started to heal up the wound little by little due to the chemicals in it, kinda like a tough bandaid. Maybe heal afew hitpoints of damage?
Just things along this line, though you could add in Chi Blasters, sounds lame as hell, but Frieza's men were using them in the Namek Saga.
Hoped this helped or sparked some ideas.
Supplemental pills? You're gonna' turn the Saiyans in juicers? LOL Actually, that ain't a bad idea. But the nutrition pack things have already been done... they're called rations. :P
HALO? Now you speak of the devil. :D If I recall, especially in the Bardock movie and Vegeta Saga (in the case of Vegeta), if you were seriously wounded while out on a mission, you were S.O.L. if you couldn't get to your ship and hook into life support.
Besides, I'm still trying to keep the need for other classes. As much fun as a party of Z-fighters would be, it would eventually devolve into a brutish combat-fest akin to Wrestlemania or a UFC PPV. If you insist on staying with the Z-fighter theme, then you better suggest to one of the party members to take the healing power. :D
Chi blasters? I think those were just laser cannons. But I guess they aren't too bad an idea. I guess it would allow a non-chi-user class to utilize that one chi point they have... but then they would become fatigued. HA! I love it. Deal good damage for a sacrifice.
Now that would be an artefact. Less powerful versions could still be made to trigger Oozaru transformation, or grant heroism if already transformed.
Not too bad. But the Brutz Wave generator or Blutz Wave ray or whatever the hell it's called would still be classified into the GT section.
Wouldn't be cool if Ivan Drago from Rocky IV was a Saiyan? Come on...
But all jokes aside, yeah that does make some sense with the healing item that I brought up, but I don't know about the rations part. I don't want one of my Saiyan players to say "Ohhhh dang it! Outta dry berries!" Just saying, it would be kinda the Saiyan replacement to things. Cause I doubt all that nice packed up food, would last a possible year's travel through space.
Of course I want them to be juicers! :P
Wouldn't be cool if Ivan Drago from Rocky IV was a Saiyan? Come on...
But all jokes aside, yeah that does make some sense with the healing item that I brought up, but I don't know about the rations part. I don't want one of my Saiyan players to say "Ohhhh dang it! Outta dry berries!" Just saying, it would be kinda the Saiyan replacement to things. Cause I doubt all that nice packed up food, would last a possible year's travel through space.
I'm sure those ping-pong balls they called ships had provisions of some sort stashed somewhere...
Completed the 1st drafts of the scouter and the full RIT armor...
Scouter:
A face-mounted scanner that is used to evaluate a creature’s potential.
A character can use a scouter to disclose the location and power level (HD or level, whichever is higher) of a single creature within 100 ft. If there are multiple creatures in the area, then the creature with the highest power level is displayed first. Also, the character can choose to take a move action and display the next highest power level. This can be done with each creature in the area.
Alternatively, the character can set a scouter to autoscan. While in autoscan, a scouter will automatically display the power level and location of the first creature that comes within range.
If a creature’s power level exceeds 10, the scouter shorts out and becomes useless until repaired. If a creature’s power level exceeds 15, the scouter overloads and explodes, dealing 2 damage to it’s user.
Full RIT Armor: A suit of non-magical half-plate armor constructed out of the same elastic, lightweight rubber-like material used in the smaller RIT armor breastplate. Although a little more restrictive than the RIT armor breastplate, full RIT armor still retains the ability to stretch and accommodate changes in the wearer’s size. Speed while wearing full RIT armor is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 for Small. The armor gives its wearer damage reduction 2/sonic and has an armor check penalty of –3 . It is considered medium armor and weighs 25 pounds. A character is considered unarmored for the purposes of special abilities when wearing Full RIT Armor.
No aura (nonmagical).
That's a good idea. One problem, you can't list all the possible upgrades or parts that might be wanted. Maybe one player wants and arm cannon, or maybe a shoulder cannon. Maybe an increased chi capacity, maybe booster jets. Maybe a adamantine coated skeletal structure ;) ... the list goes on and on and on... So, I would say DM/GM call.
The same can be said of magic items and spells for D&D. You'd only have to come up with a list of parts that represent the android abilities we've already seen in DBZ.
The same can be said of magic items and spells for D&D. You'd only have to come up with a list of parts that represent the android abilities we've already seen in DBZ.
I thought this was d20 DBZ, not d20 Terminator... When were the Androids the center of DBZ? I thought the appeal of DBZ was the martial arts and the kick butt blasts...
I thought this was d20 DBZ, not d20 Terminator... When were the Androids the center of DBZ? I thought the appeal of DBZ was the martial arts and the kick butt blasts...
[sarcasm]Then let's take all of the androids out of it.[/sarcasm]
It just seems as if a lot of the attention suddenly shifted towards the androids.
Sorry android fans,
I do think an android could be fun to play, but, in reality, that is a game of a different theme, not DBZ.
I don't think an android should be a class of any kind. It's too race like.
I do think that the templates I have are fine for those who insist on have players as androids.
I will NOT be expanding on any android material.
I DO think that those of you out there who are android enthusiasts can make up your own material. Just because I don't put it in my material or don't agree with it doesn't mean you can't make it yourself.
Once again, sorry boys. I'm focusing on getting the DBZ aspect correct and I don't think DBZ was meant to be cyber-punk.
I wonder what Trunk's sword would be... though, I think it's quite likely Trunk's sword could just be a masterwork longsword.
There was also the jar of sealing that Kami was trying to use to seal away picolo with. But that could be replicated with current D&D magic.
what about the biggest mcguffin of all... the dragon balls themselves? gives user one free wish spell?
Ginyu Force characters are the GREATEST.TEAM.EVER. I remember there was one part of the anime (that wasn't in the comics, I think) where Ginyu is talking about the great rewards that Freeza would give him for serving him and he pulls out one of these:
.jpg/444px-Morinaga_Milk_Caramel_(Morinaga).jpg)
yes, he pulls out a Morinaga Milk Caramel. Not an entire box, mind you. One. ONE. He got all excited over ONE Morinaga Milk Caramel.
Later in the series, when trunks first shows up, King Freezer says whoever kills Trunks (who, by the way, was just shown completely scattering Freeza's ashes to the four winds in like, 5 seconds) gets TWO Morinaga Milk Caramels. And suddenly, all the redshirts decided that it was worth risking their life for this and they all charge him.
Morinaga Milk Caramels, the most powerful force in the DBZ universe.
I got it now, the Morinaga Milk Caramel is actually one of the most PRECIOUS resources in the galaxy, kind of like how oil is to the US. The thing is, the raw materials themselves are EXTREMELY rare in the rest of the universe except on earth, where it is produce in abundance and made into this cheap little snack food by the Morinaga corporation, not realizing the gold mine they sit on. The rest of the galaxy, in the mean time, vie over this precious resource, with empires rising and falling to the breath of their yummy Milk Caramel goodness.
Freeza and every other alien has discovered that on earth, the Morinaga Milk Caramel is merely peddled as snack food because earth is so rich of it. THAT'S why every conflict inevitably comes back to earth!!! It all makes sense now!!!
That or Freeza's empire is really just the Evil intergalactic Morinaga Corporation in disguise, and he puts crack in all of his products before distributing them to his underlings, making them into fiending little drug mules who would do ANYTHING for another hit. ANYTHING. (What, you think the Ginyu Forces wear those cute little speedos because it's FASHIONABLE? Nah, you totally know that Freeza just loves his henchmen in pseudo-homoerotic swim wear)
Yeah, I don't think Trunk's sword had any super special significance, otherwise King Cold would've diced him up.
As for the DBs themselves, I did them. They're listed under artifacts and I have all four different versions of them. (Kami's original, Namek's original, Dende's Earth, and Muri's Namek)
LOL.
I have to agree that Ginyus are totally awesome, which is why I made the PrC. :D
The power of caramel, eh? Interesting. I got it! Munching one of those delicious caramel treats gives the character unlimited chi for 20 rounds!!! (The drawback? You can only take move actions because you spend all 20 rounds chewing it.) LoL
There was also the jar of sealing that Kami was trying to use to seal away picolo with. But that could be replicated with current D&D magic.
It wasn't a jar of sealing - the spell Kami cast requires a jar, and any kind of jar can be used.
Nominrath, do you think, Broly stated in d20, would be along epic lines? He pretty much stated out power no other villian has showed all the way up to Kid Buu.
(Turning night into day, causing a crater just for powering up, the power of Goku/Vegeta/Trunks/Piccolo/Gohan into a Kamehameha at point blank range did not kill him! Just wounded him.)
If he was put into D&D, I don't think any dumbing down of his character would bring any justice to Broly.
EDIT: And I am not talking about "Broly Rebirth!" or the cleaverly named "Bio-Broly." I am talking about "Broly Legendary Super Saiyan." The one, if, he was a planet that was being destoryed, it wouldn't effect him in the slightest.
I don't think he's epic... he's a diety of the lower divine circle trapped in a semi-mortal body.
He would be one of those characters that you wouldn't even bother to stat out because he would have things like 200 Str, and 300 Dex... At that point, you'd just say, "Ah, f... this. What's the point? You guys die. Roll up new characters." LOL
P.S. I've decided to put GT back in, but with a few modifications... As soon as I finish it, I'll post it.
Full Power Super Saiyan
From your older version, I would like you to add that in before Super Saiyan in the original prestige class. It is actually termed as Mastered Super Saiyan by most fans, cause it is the state Goku and Gohan were in before the Cell Games.
Since they weren't able to go SSJ2 or SSJ3 just yet... plan on making it alittle lower?
Or atleast give it when you obtain Ascended Saiyan, cause from what we all learned from D&D, just because you leveled up, doesn't mean you learned the technique just yet... you still gotta earn it.
But wait Nominrath, before you finish everything and say "That is a day!" I want to add in something.
Full Power Super Saiyan
From your older version, I would like you to add that in before Super Saiyan in the original prestige class. It is actually termed as Mastered Super Saiyan by most fans, cause it is the state Goku and Gohan were in before the Cell Games.
Since they weren't able to go SSJ2 or SSJ3 just yet... plan on making it alittle lower?
Or atleast give it when you obtain Ascended Saiyan, cause from what we all learned from D&D, just because you leveled up, doesn't mean you learned the technique just yet... you still gotta earn it.
I know. Like I said, I made changes. I made it an epic feat called Enduring Super Saiyan instead.
Looking back on it, it doesn't make sense to actually put in as a class ability as it was an ability that Goku and Gohan went out of their way to attain. And before you say it... It's too powerful to make a non-epic feat. LoL
The epic Super Saiyan actually went through the biggest change of all. They now get bonus feats the way the epic Z-fighter gets and the Golden Oozaru, the Enduring Super Saiyan (a.k.a. Full Power Super Saiyan) and the Super Saiyan 4 are now epic feats.
So when is this new d20 done? I am pretty stoked to see it at this point.
Hear ye, hear ye!
The newest version of the Dragon Ball Z d20 Compendium has arrived. I have added two new items; the Scouter and the Full RIT Armor. I have also revamped and reintroduced the Dragon Ball GT material.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/a37a68f6-189d-4e8c-b4ae-9b81674f37ad/DBZ2-v5.3.1
Have fun!
Rikage CR 15
Saiyan z-fighter 12/the super saiyan 3
CN Medium humanoid
Init +3; Senses: None
Languages: Common
_______________________
AC 21, touch 17, flat-footed 14
hp 136
Immune: None
Resist: +5 Will saves while transforming into Oozaru.
Chi Level: 6
Fort +16, Ref +15, Will +11
Weakness: All the downsides to being a humanoid, grappling with the Saiyan Tail.
_______________________
Speed 30 ft. (8 squares)
Melee: +2 unarmed strike (2d6+5, x2, bludgeoning)
Ranged: chi blast (1d4, x2, 120ft, force)
Base Atk +12/+7/+2; Grp +19
Atk Options: .
Special Actions: Flurry Of Blows (+12/+12/+12/+7/+2), Chi Blast (+5 Blasts), Z-Strike (sonic), Super Saiyan
Chi Powers*
Level One:
After Image
Infurious Phoenix (Wolf Fang Fist)
Guru Lagen (Riot Javelin)
Destructive Wave
Guru Slug (Buster Cannon)
Detect Ki
Oblivion's End (Galick Gun)
Level Two:
Meteor Shower
Bukujutsu
Heavenly Pierce (Destructo Disk)
Illusion Smash
Level Three:
Way To The Dawn (Big Bang Attack)
Improved Bukujutsu
Mystic's Progression (Fierce Destructo Disk)
Level Four:
Advanced Bukujutsu
Soul's Infernal Wrath (Stardust Breaker)
Combat Gear: +2 bracers of armor (x2), Monk's Belt
_______________________
Abilities Str 20, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 11
SQ: Zenkai Boost, Saiyan Tail, Alternate Form Oozaru
Feats: 10g Training, 20g Training, Control Oozaru, Natural Super Saiyan, Saiyan Evolution, Suppress Energy Level. Empower Chi Power (Way To The Dawn), Empower Chi Blast.
Skills: Balance (+13), Climb (+10), Concentration (+24), Jump (+17), Profession [Mercenary] (+14), Sense Motive (+8), Spot (+9), Swim (+9), Tumble (+14), Knowledge [Saiyan History] (+6)
Possessions: Combat Gear
Quote: "With this power... Lets Finish This!"
He was on Planet Vegeta when it happened... his team were caught in the scruffle when Bardock began boasting and starting the revault towards Frieza's men. Rikage at the moment, began blasting away any living thing that wasn't a Saiyan, he hated how Frieza was treating there race, as if they were slaves or lackies to him, and if there was one thing that Rikage hated, was being told his limitations. Rikage took out atleast seven of Frieza's supposed "Elite" along with one member of The Ginyu Force (later replaced by Guldo) though it was a shame, his saiyan blood was burning so loudly, he didn't realize Frieza's final attack before it was too late. A proud Saiyan, known as lowest of the low, went down with his planet and his people... without the proper recognition that he strived for since birth.
Something happened, as the incredible pain of death took over his body... but it was gone. The blinding light that he was so sure would lead him to his death, just, brought him someplace else. He was surronded in what would looked like a peaceful land. Translucent foliage and beautifully crackling waterfalls were in the area around him... along with another man. He revered himself as a "Kai" and he wasn't there to harm Rikage, but instead, he asked for a favor... "The world's, need balance. The world is either so full of evil... or good. This could lead to a unatural balance of things could leave to things most chaotic. I am sure, even for a Saiyan, you have heard the phase, that light can't survive without darkness. One could leave to the destruction of all living things, and the other one could erase the principle of free thought. Rikage, one of the greatest Saiyans that had ever lived, your determination, courage, and pure strength within yourself. With your permission, will you provide me your services?... You will be a free man, and I will teach you, how to push yourself beyond the limits. You will be a Super Saiyan."
There he trained with the Kai, went on missions for him and provide him a extra hand while in need... Rikage still had the burden of his comrades dieing and the thought of being one of the last if not the only Saiyan that survived. But he promised himself, in his own tears and blood, he will fight, for all of them.
(Image: Gogeta- By unknown artist.)
@Image Copyrighted by Akira Toriyama
And Nominrath... great job.
EDIT: Excuse that last remark, didn't feel so 100% percent behind it
Peace.
But I think it is good Nominrath, one of the best if not the best Dragon Ball d20 out there.
I am going to play a game soon, watched The Forbidden Kingdom last night and I want some martial arts action! :D
If you're interested, I put in the Z-bruiser core class, a class based more on characters like Nappa who were all smash and bash but still had some chi ability... Basically a Z-fighter with the following changes: Instead of Wis modifier, they get Con modifier to AC to represent how tough they are, Smash Attack ability (Works like the Power Attack feat, but only with their unarmed attacks), Enrage (kind of a backwards Rage ability... Its induced when the bruiser takes so much damage) and the Z-strike ability progresses a little faster. They don't get flurry of blows and their chi level is lower.
PRAISE: I love your kaio-sama class. Making kaio-ken a class feature that progresses with youis a really good idea. If I may suggest I'd tweak the DC to do it a little higher, there should be more of a threat in doing a move that through out the first few seasons is considered one of the most dangerous attacks there is.
Races have both pros and cons to them, i can see the effort to balance the races so no one goes saiyan everytime.
I dig on the ffects of some of the powers you've presented like after-image.
WHAT I HATED: You and everyone else has turned a racial abilitie into a class, what's up with that? Gokue didn't hit his first SSJ level because he leveled up, he hit it when his firend was blown up and he got super ****** about it. Making it a class features takes away from the style of the game. Hitting your next SSJ level after the big boss fight because thats when you got your xp really loses it's effect on the game. Not to mention it cuts you at the balls in regards to character customization
Your base class is unnessecary. You could have gonea much easier route by using modern base classes (or D&D classes if that floats your boat) and making either talent trees or feat trees that grant your chi abilities.
What in the show led ou to believe that the kahamaha is an iced based atack? It would be a better option to make generic abilities that your characterscan call whatever the hell they want that they could just grab feats or talents that improve that attack. Of course you'd have to make a new damage type, but that isn't really that hard...that why you can take feats from tome and blood or complete arcana/mage and import them into your game near flawlessly.
thats just what I think tho.
WHAT I HATED: You and everyone else has turned a racial abilitie into a class.
Well, the class is only available to Saiyans and Half-Saiyans right? So technically, it's a racial ability. It's only available to the more powerful and specialized Saiyans.
Gokue didn't hit his first SSJ level because he leveled up, he hit it when his firend was blown up and he got super ****** about it. Making it a class features takes away from the style of the game. Hitting your next SSJ level after the big boss fight because thats when you got your xp really loses it's effect on the game.
Goku already had a level of Super Saiyan when he fought Frieza, he just hadn't transformed.
There was also a variant rule I came up with that works well for this sort of thing:
Second Wind
During an encounter, if a PC is reduced below one-third of their total hit points, they may take their second wind as a free action. The character immediately gains the XP he would earn for defeating the encounter. If this would put the character's XP total above the amount required for the next level, the character gains a level instantly. If the PC flees combat or otherwise fails to defeat his opponents, his XP and level return to their previous states.
Ok, well I read some of this , and i found things I liked, and I found things I outright hated.
PRAISE: I love your kaio-sama class. Making kaio-ken a class feature that progresses with youis a really good idea. If I may suggest I'd tweak the DC to do it a little higher, there should be more of a threat in doing a move that through out the first few seasons is considered one of the most dangerous attacks there is.
Races have both pros and cons to them, i can see the effort to balance the races so no one goes saiyan everytime.
I dig on the ffects of some of the powers you've presented like after-image.
WHAT I HATED: You and everyone else has turned a racial abilitie into a class, what's up with that? Gokue didn't hit his first SSJ level because he leveled up, he hit it when his firend was blown up and he got super ****** about it. Making it a class features takes away from the style of the game. Hitting your next SSJ level after the big boss fight because thats when you got your xp really loses it's effect on the game. Not to mention it cuts you at the balls in regards to character customization
Your base class is unnessecary. You could have gonea much easier route by using modern base classes (or D&D classes if that floats your boat) and making either talent trees or feat trees that grant your chi abilities.
What in the show led ou to believe that the kahamaha is an iced based atack? It would be a better option to make generic abilities that your characterscan call whatever the hell they want that they could just grab feats or talents that improve that attack. Of course you'd have to make a new damage type, but that isn't really that hard...that why you can take feats from tome and blood or complete arcana/mage and import them into your game near flawlessly.
thats just what I think tho.
Well, thanks for the praise, but let me try to set your mind at ease about your grievances.
True enough that it takes some kind of 'push' to turn into the SS and further levels, but the class represents the training to control the ability. Even Goku himself said that he couldn't control it at first and needed to train hard to do so. Also, you can't give away an ability like SS for free, that's a little unfair and unbalanced, don't you think? Take the Barbarian Rage ability (which is what I based the SS on...) for example. Technically, anybody should be able to Rage, so why do only Barbarians get it? It's the same thing, right? So, while you may 'hate' the idea of it being a class, it really is the best way to present it in a paper and pen RPG world. And I don't understand how it 'cuts you at the balls' for character customization. Just because they don't get a super awesome ability, I'm stifling customization?
The base class was necessary in my eyes. I had already tried using other classes to recreate my idea (if you read my intro, I state this...), but it still didn't feel like DBZ. They were still sorcerers, wizards, fighters, monks, etc. and those are not what the characters in DBZ were. As for the so-called easier route of adding talents/feats: Talents and feats should be earned, not just given away. Besides, if you're going to do that, you may as well go the whole 9 and make your own class. (In all actuality, it wasn't really hard... I enjoyed doing it. If I didn't, I wouldn't have done it, so the 'easier' route is a moot point.)
Nothing led me to believe that the Kamehameha was an ice-based attack, etc. I did that so that the attacks would be different. Otherwise there would only be 4 different attacks: Chi Beam, Big Chi Beam, Planet-Destroying Chi Beam and Rapid Chi Beam. I know what you're going to say, "But you can offer feats/talents to customize... blah, blah, blah." I've heard it before. The way the system is now, you can customize by taking the powers you want, so in effect, it is the same and you don't have to waste the feats you get on them. "But what about bonus feats?" Why? The system already works the way it is. It's a familiar system, too. It isn't much different than a Sorcerer's or a Cleric's progression chart.
As for using Tome and Blood, the Complete Mage, etc., why would I? DBZ characters weren't wizards or sorcerers (with the exception of Babidi). I used these books for inspiration as to what a feat that modifies chi might do, but nothing further. Chi is different from arcane and divine energies, and I think I achieved my goal in portraying that with my chi system.
I was trying to make a whole new system based around DBZ that can be incorporated into other d20 systems... not copy other d20 systems.
Would like to see your new Z-Bruiser baseclass actually.
Been meaning to host a game... but so far, a lack of volunteers has steered me away from it.
QUESTION!:
After re-reading alot of the manga and watching The Forbidden Kingdom, I was wondering if the Z-Fighters Flurry Of Blows would stack that with afew levels in Monk?
Cause, I am going for a... Dragon Ball feel to it all, like, afew levels in monk (Alot of the characters used different martial arts styles and or stances when they fought people) and one or two levels in Z-Fighter (Notice the huge lack of beams in Dragon Ball as compared to Dragon Ball Z).
Then I wanna work my way up... though, if you wanna hear the opinion on your number 1# fan so far, I don't see why it wouldn't stack with Flurry Of Blows.
(Fights in the show/manga, most villians and Vegeta used pure brute force of power while Goku and Piccolo seemed to stay true to there old martial abilities)
EDIT: Ohhh and a Prc for Namekians! Have you done that yet?... Cause I figured it would be speed based, seeing how Piccolo/Nail seemed to out-do Frieza in the terms of speed. As for your fusion idea awhile back... I just figured it could work something like the Saiyan's Zenkai?
I am working on a namekian PrC... I'll post the new compendium with the Z-bruiser when I finish it... I've been browsing D&D books and the DBZ manga (my primary source) for sources of information, but aside from the assimilation thing that Nail does, I don't see too much to use, so it might be a dead issue...
Some of those things come to mind.
Sure on paper it might not come off as super amazing, but when it comes to battle it might show itself to be just as useful as the Super Saiyan prestige class.
Here's the newest edition of the DBZ material, it includes the Z-bruiser core class and the Namekian Guardian prestige class.
Hope it pleases....
All I can say, the Namekian Prestige class was very well done actually, and Z-Bruiser isn't all that bad.
Nominrath you should be considered as the person who breathed life into a system that everyone would think is nothing but mirrors and magic tricks. (Get the quote, then good for you!)
Also, do the PrCs increase chi-user level or powers known?
No, the PrCs do not increase powers known or chi level unless the chi level of the PrC you take is higher than one you have already. In the Chi System section it states that in the case of multi-classing (which includes PrCs) that chi levels do not stack, the highest chi level granted is considered the chi level of the character. As for not increasing powers known, the PrCs represent a more specialized training in another field. For example the Super Saiyan PrC. This represents the training and time it takes to control and master the Super Saiyan transformation which has nothing to do with learning and mastering chi attacks.
Thanks for the answers on the other questions anyhow.
DBZ logic is there's always a bigger fish. And really isn't this the logic of the d20 system? (Less you change massive damage rule...)
Pre-Z, they could get shot with bullets and be relatively unscatched. Maybe a few cuts and bruises.
By Z, Raditz could catch bullets in his hands.
This hints to an increddibly high AC and damage reduction score more then hitpoint amount.
Fireball looks like a basic ki attack. But then that's another problem with the Z-fighters, they're cannon oriented. They aren't use to enemies that use telepthay, telekinesis, polymorph, magic would be the Z-Senshie's biggest weakness..
And unless you plan to change massive damage rule, I wouldn't even bother using weapons. Considering they'll rarely make contact, and they'll just brushoff the damage dealt..
Nominrath has states tons of times, that you are not following in the footsteps of the Z-Fighters from the original manga or anime.
Bullets in Dragonball were used for humor, I consider nothing from that anime totally serious honestly... Kamehameha erupting from Goku's feet?...
He just adapted it in his own way without over-powering the system, while making his own techniques, you can take that fireball spell stuff outta here. They aren't freaking wizards.
It's not very recent i know but...
do someone have the material?
the link isn't working...
Thanks.