d20 MODERN 2.0 (Core Game)
I confess, I have really liked what I have seen so far in DnD 4e. The other day I ran the play test module that was put out so folks could get a feel for the new game. I liked it. More importantly the players loved it, especially one we roped in that abhors RPG games (her opinion they are too slow, too cerebral). Now we are all waiting with baited breath to see what the final version actually looks like as we want to (1) find out what happens next from that one-off adventure and (2) what we could do with our own characters instead of the Wizard's pre-gen ones that we used.
After playing that one-off d20 Modern became tarnished in my eyes. It just feels wonky mechanically compared to what we played as a 4e preview. As an exercise I decided to substitute some 4e concepts over the d20 Modern game to see what might change, streamline, drop out, or modify. I also liberated a copy of Star Wars Saga to get a directional feel (i.e. Modern begat Saga begat DnD 4e...).
I have captured my basic concept thoughts here. These are in general terms with a few examples. I suppose if there is any interest I could flesh this out with more detailed descriptions on Classes, Talents, Skills, Feats, Equipment, Equipment Talents, Special Abilities, Powers, Combat, Settings, and so forth.
In the following posts my ideas and observations…
MINIATURES
Mechanically DnD 4e, and really 3e as well, rely heavily on miniature or map combat to resolve encounters. It reallllly speeds up play and gives players a much more immersive experience. I think before d20 Modern can even consider a 2e version, it needs a miniatures game similar to the Star Wars or Dungeons and Dragons miniatures games. Keep the sylistic as Modern and not DnD fast-forward to modern times. So focus the miniatures game on real-life, television, film, and novel influences giving groupings of action-adventure, law-enforcement, military, crime, gangs, terrorism, animals, conspiracy, and horror to generate figures from. And throw in some skirmish maps and Modern Tiles to round out the miniatures experience. In keeping with the theme it would also be useful to gather rights from a few key media sources to use the names and likenesses of various popular fictional characters as miniatures.
For the miniatures game follow similar rules from Saga or DnD but incorporate a Modern theme over the fantastic. This would tend to play up more physical actions over the supernatural (like Saga), but where the supernatural occurred a little bit would go a long way. On the surface this would tend to mean the figures would all be medium-size (humans after all), but throw in large animals like horses or bears and vehicles and a sufficiently meaty scale begins to emerge. I would still more narrowly focus the Modern game on modern elements and initially stay away from historical, superhero, or future inspired figures until the game is actually established; add those on as modules to the main game as these games already exist in some form or other. This is to open a miniatures market that is ill-served and should be released at least one to two years before the RPG books.
Some obvious miniatures sets (not exhaustive):
Action-Adventure: James Bond, Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Charlie's Angels, John Woo films, Cars, SUVs, Trucks, Semis, Motorcycles.
Law-Enforcement: Patrolmen, SWAT, Sherrif, Mounted Police, K-9, Detectives, G-Men, Vice, Vehicles.
Military: Rifleman, Sniper, Officer, Medic, Engineer, Hummer, APC, Tank.
Crime: Burglers, Mafia, Bank Robbers, Hit-Men, Muggers, Serial Killers, Snap-Jobs, Pimps, Prostitutes, Sedans, Vans.
Gangs: Thugs, Drug Dealers, Gangsters, various street gangs, Cars.
Terrorism: Gunmen, Suicide-Bombers, Leaders, Infiltrators, Technicals.
Animals: Bears, Dogs, Big Cats, Deer, Elephants, Bulls, Hunters, Rangers, Jeeps.
Conspiracy: Men in Black, Aliens, Cults, Assassins, Black Cars/Trucks/SUVs.
Horror: Slashers, Magic-Users, Abberations, Demons/Devils, Beasts.
Some obvious skirmish maps and tile sets (not exhaustive):
Bank Heist (map): Bank and parking lot area.
Neighborhood Street (map): City street and adjacent private residences and yards.
Back Alley (map): An alley, surrounding buildings, and openings to adjacent streets.
Roof-Top (map): The roof-top of a building, terrain includes water tower, vents, A/C units, door access, emergency escape.
Apartments (map): A few apartments from a complex, parking/driving area, grassy/open area, landscaping.
Mansion (map): A mansion (1 level) and surrounding grounds.
Park (map): A park area with trees, playground, shrubs.
City Streets (tiles): Tiles depicting surface streets, intersections, parks, and a few yards with building exteriors.
Critical Locations (tiles): Tiles depicting various building interiors like houses, shops, banks, offices.
Great Outdoors (tiles): Tiles depicting various natural settings like forested areas, meadows, campgrounds, farmhouse.
City Underground (tiles): Tiles depicting various subteranean city locations like subway station, subway tracks, tunnels, seweres, vaults.
SETTING
The setting makes all the difference in play. GMs and Players alike have some idea what they are doing. The basic setting is a quasi-real-world/action-adventure environment. It skips magic, superheroics, and other expansive ideas to focus on a rational world that is shaped by the actions of its heroes rather than supernatural entities from beyond all understanding. The player characters are residents and heroes of this world. On the fringes there exist shadowy figures and forces that challenge not only law and order but also pull at the very fabric of reality itself. The heroes will oppose criminals and terrorists, confront conspiracies, and do battle with horrors made flesh.
Some time after the release of the miniatures game release the d20 Modern core game. This comprises three books, but you only really need the core book. The core book focuses on the players with three chapters at the end covering basic GM elements, basic menaces, and the core setting. A GM guide that expands on the GM elements and core setting introduced in the core book and provides invaluable world building tools for the GM. Finally a Menace manual that provides a detailed list of opponents, monsters, organizations, and locations/encounters that can be used in the game. Later books can then be released that cover new settings, time periods, adventure modules, and menaces.
TERMS
These are terms cribbed and modified from the DnD 4e quick play rules. Adjusted these to more closely match Star Wars Saga and for a more modern as opposed to archaic feel.
Actions
During an Encounter a character is able take on their turn one each: Standard, Move, and Minor; or may take a Full-Round action; and a character may perform Free actions. You may trade down actions, a Standard for a Move or Minor, a Move for a Minor. During a given round a character make an Immediate Action (like an Attack of Opportunity) if conditions present themselves.
Abilities
Ability is a special action that a character may take usually as a Standard action. Abilities may be used At-Will, per Encounter, or per Day. Abilities are acquired through class features or Feats.
At-Will: At-Will abilities may be used without expiring.
Encounter: Encounter abilities may only be used once in an Encounter and are recovered after a Short Rest.
Daily: Daily abilities may only be used once per day and are recovered after an Extended Rest.
Action Points
Once per turn you may use an Action Point. You begin the day with a number of Action Points equal to your Bonus + best Class Action Point Bonus. You gain a bonus +1 Action Point every other Encounter. You reset your Action Points after an Extended Rest.
Action Points may be used to do the following:
Extra Standard Action: Once per Encounter spend 1 Action Point at the start of your turn and gain an additional Standard action (this may be traded down).
Recovery: Whenever you use Second Wind spend 1 Action Point to regain hit points equal to Recovery amount. During a Short Rest spend any number of Action Points, for each point spent in this way regain hit points equal to Recovery amount.
Recover Ability: At the start of your turn spend 1 Action Point to recover an expended Encounter or Daily ability.
Attack of Opportunity
During a Round and on an opponent’s turn if the right conditions are met you may normally make one Attack of Opportunity (some abilities may allow for more). Moving away or by an opponent (out of a threatened square), or using a ranged attack adjacent triggers this, but a Shift normally does not.
Autofire
You select a 2 x 2 square area within range of your weapon and attack as if it had a Reflex Defense of 15. Succeed and anyone within the designated area makes an immediate Saving Throw, if they fail they take damage from the weapon. Without abilities to compensate, using autofire loses the benefit of weapon proficiency.
Blast (X)
This effect is a line (X) squares long, anyone in this area is affected by the blast.
Blinded
You cannot make Ranged Attacks or Attacks of Opportunity. All enemies have Total Concealment against you. All enemies have combat advantage against you.
Bloodied
You are bloodied at half your hit point total (round up). The bloodied condition may allow special actions.
Bonus
Equal to 1/2 Character Level (round down); apply this to all Attack rolls, all Defenses, Skill checks, number of Action Points, or anything else that allows Bonus to be applied.
Bull Rush
To initiate a Bull Rush you need to make Athletics check vs. the target’s Fortitude Defense. This does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity. If you succeed, you may push the target 1 space and occupy the space just vacated. The margin of success doesn’t matter, and 1 space is the maximum that a target can be moved with Bull Rush (without taking special abilities).
Burst (X)
This effect is an area including all squares (X) distance from a target square.
Close
A Close attack initiates in a square adjacent to the attacker and can affect a several square area.
Charging
Charging in combat is a standard action that allows you to move up to your speed and attack. It grants a +1 to hit with a melee weapon, and no penalty to Defense.
Combat Advantage
You get a +2 to hit the target. Flanking a target allows you to have Combat Advantage against a target, as do most physical afflictions (such as being immobilized or prone).
Concealment
You are behind some obstacle that obscures enemies from seeing you but the obstacle provides no real cover such as smoke or foliage.
Partial Concealment: You are only partially obscured; attackers take a –2 penalty to hit you when attacking you.
Total Concealment: You are completely obscured; attackers take a –10 penalty to hit you when attacking you as they have to guess where you are.
Cover
You are behind some obstacle that both obscures part of your body and is substantial enough to deflect attacks.
Partial Cover: A good portion of your body is still exposed but you can easily attack and duck behind cover if needed; you gain a +2 Reflex Defense bonus against attacks at you made across your cover.
Full Cover: Only a small part of your body is still exposed but you can easily attack and remove your exposure when needed; you gain a +5 Reflex Defense bonus against attacks at you made your cover.
Total Cover: A substantial obstacle that completely obscures you. Enemies cannot attack you but neither can you attack your enemies across this cover.
Critical Hits
Every natural 20 on any d20 attack roll is a critical hit. A natural roll within the critical hit range is also an automatic critical hit. Damage from critical hits is maximized.
Dazed
You may only take 1 action per round. All enemies gain Combat Advantage against you. You cannot flank enemies or help an ally gain flanking. You cannot make Attacks of Opportunity or use immediate actions.
Death and Dying
At 0 hit points you are Unconscious. You die if you reach negative hit points equal to your Bloodied value (half your hit points, round up). At the end of your turn, if you haven’t been stabilized, lose 1 hit point, and roll a d20:
1–9: You get worse, get this result 3 times and you die.
10–19: No change.
20: You stabilize.
Stabilized: When you stabilize immediately return to 0 hit points and you are still unconscious.
Treat Injury: As a Standard action an ally can make a Treat Injury check to stabilize you. If they make DC 15 you are stabilized. If they make DC 20, you haven’t used your Second Wind yet this Encounter, and you have an Action Point remaining, your Second Wind is triggered. If anything heals you, you return to 0 HP before the healing is applied.
Flat-Footed
You lose the benefit of your Dexterity modifier and cannot take Immediate Actions until the start of your turn. At the start of an encounter you are flat-footed until the start of your turn. When surprised you are also flat-footed until you get a chance to act, that is the start of your first turn.
Full Defense
You don’t take any actions, but you get a +2 to all Defense scores until the start of your next turn.
Grapple
You can attempt a Grapple check with anything that is within 1 size category of you. To initiate, you make an Athletics check vs. Reflex Defense as a Standard action. This does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity. If you fail, nothing happens. If you succeed, you cause your target to be immobilized for one round. The target can escape using an Acrobatics or Athletics check vs. your Fortitude Defense on their turn. You automatically end the Grapple by moving more than 1 square away from your target or taking a Standard action that is not a Grapple check. You may move the target 1 square by succeeding on an additional grapple check on your next turn.
Hit Points
Your ability to survive injuries. Start with a number of Hit Points equal to your Constitution score + Class starting HP. Increase your Hit Points each level by Constitution modifier + Class per level HP. Some feats and class features may provide additional Hit Points.
Immediate Actions
An immediate action is one you take during another player’s or an opponent’s turn because a condition allows it. An Attack of Opportunity is an immediate action. Normally you will not make more than one immediate action during a round, though some abilities may allow more.
Immobilized
You cannot move on your own: your Speed is 0. Otherwise you can act normally. Effects that push, pull, or otherwise transport you still work normally. Foes around an Immobilized target get Combat Advantage against him.
Initiative
At the start of an Encounter or at the point a character enters an Encounter roll d20 + Bonus + Dexterity modifier + additional Initiative modifier. In an Encounter play goes in order from highest Initiative result to the lowest.
Injuries
An injury is a semi-permanent condition a character can receive for a variety of reasons. The most common injuries are the Wounded and Crippled injuries though others exist. All injuries stack, if the stack would reduce a character below 1 hit point, set hit points to 0 and the character is in a coma until enough injuries are removed to return them to at least 1 hit point.
Minor Injury: A minor injury is one that can be recovered during a Short Rest; it is usually a minor effect. A character may have any number of minor injuries. Only one minor injury can be recovered during a Short Rest with a successful Treat Injury check DC 15 by an ally, though some abilities can improve this. All minor injuries are recovered after an Extended Rest without need of a Treat Injury check.
The Wounded injury is a minor injury; receive this any time you take an injury that reduces you to –1 or less hit points (dying). Until recovered you take a cumulative –1 to your hit point maximum for each of this type of injury. Total of this injury cannot reduce you below your bloodied level.
Major Injury: A major injury is one that can be recovered only during an Extended Rest; it is usually a significant effect. A character may only have a total of 4 major injuries, if they receive more than this they die. Only one major injury can be recovered during an Extended Rest with a successful Treat Injury check DC 20 by an ally or medical service, some abilities can improve this.
The Crippled injury is a major injury; receive this any time you are reduced to –1 or less hit points (dying) due to Massive Damage. Until recovered you take a cumulative 1/4 reduction to your maximum hit points (round down) for each of this type of injury. Total of this injury cannot reduce you below 1 hit point.
Marked
You can only be marked by 1 creature at a time. If another creature marks you, you lose the old mark and gain the new one. You take a –2 penalty on all attacks that do not include the creature that marked you. You may suffer other penalties for attacking a creature other than the one that marked you, if that creature has such an ability. You may mark a creature as a Standard Action. Some abilities may also apply a Mark as part of that ability.
Massive Damage
Any time you take damage that exceeds your Fortitude Defense, immediately roll a Saving Throw. Succeed and take damage normally. Fail and immediately drop to –1 HP and you are dying.
Movement
You may move into any adjacent square at a cost of 1 movement, including diagonally. Difficult terrain doubles movement cost. Moving out of a square adjacent to an opponent allows him to make an Attack of Opportunity, unless you Shift.
Nonlethal Damage
Any damage received that is nonlethal reduces hit points normally, however, nonlethal damage cannot reduce a character’s hit points to less than 0 no matter how much damage is dealt. Nonlethal Massive Damage causes a character to be immediately reduced to 0 hit points and Unconscious on a failed Saving Throw.
Ongoing Damage
At the start of your turn, you take a given amount and type of damage. When the duration ends it does so at the end of your turn. Most types of Ongoing Damage allow for a Saving Throw to end the effect, this is done at the end of your turn as well.
Prone
You are lying on the ground. You may crawl at half speed, and your opponents have Combat Advantage. Usually attacks from the prone suffer a –2 penalty (some heavy weapons or abilities may negate this penalty). You may stand up from prone as a move action, but opponents who threaten you get an Attack of Opportunity.
Reach
Creatures with Reach only threaten the squares immediately around them, unless they have a special ability. Reach is only active on their turn, and cannot be used for Attacks of Opportunity.
Recharge
Some encounter powers have a chance to recharge. At the start of your turn, roll d6. If the recharge number shows on the die, the power has recharged and may now be used. This is usually a GM character ability for characters that normally do not have Action Points.
Recovery
This amount is equal to 1/4 of your maximum Hit Points or your Constitution modifier (whichever is greater). Any time you activate your Recovery you heal this many Hit Points. Recovery is activated by spending 1 Action Point either as part of a Second Wind or during a Short Rest.
Resting
A Short Rest is about 5 minutes and allows you to use Recovery by spending Action Points, you may use Recovery as many times as you want, you also recover all of your Encounter abilities. An Extended Rest is 6 hours, and at the end you recover all your Hit Points, recover all Encounter and Daily abilities, and reset your Action Points. You may only take 1 Extended Rest in a 24 hour period.
Running
Add 2 to your speed as a move action when running. As a Full-Round action move up to 4 times your speed in a line (3 times if you are heavily encumbered or in heavy armor). Running gives your opponents Combat Advantage until the start of your next turn.
Saving Throws
Roll a d20 and if you roll 10 or higher you succeed. Saving Throws are used to end an ongoing effect; this is rolled at the end of your turn. Some events may allow you to roll a Saving Throw to avoid or reduce their effects. Some abilities may apply modifiers to Saving Throws.
Second Wind
Once per Encounter you may use a Second Wind as a Standard action to use an Action Point to activate your Recovery and heal that many Hit Points – you receive a +2 bonus to all defenses until your next turn. Some abilities may grant more than one Second Wind during an Encounter or heal more Hit Points than the Recovery amount.
Shift
You may move 1 square as a move action without drawing an Attack of Opportunity. Normally you cannot shift into difficult terrain, though some abilities may allow for this.
Skill Checks
Make a skill check by rolling d20 + appropriate Skill modifier and compare against target. Perception is used passively to detect, this is equal to 10 + Perception modifier.
Slowed
Your Speed is 2, unless it would otherwise be 1 or 0, in which case it is unchanged. If you have multiple speeds these are also reduced to 2.
Stunned
All enemies gain Combat Advantage against you. You cannot flank enemies or help an ally gain flanking. You cannot make Attacks of Opportunity or use immediate actions. On your turn you take no actions. You may still roll a saving throw at the end of your turn.
Sustain
Use a minor action to keep doing something.
Two-Weapon Fighting
You may fight with two weapons provided they are the same category of weapon, the weapons are versatile, and you are proficient in the use of both weapons. Normally you will lose proficiency and focus benefits such as attack/damage bonuses, improved critical range, and weapon talents. Some abilities may change these restrictions.
Make a Full-Round attack, attack normally with your main weapon; gain an additional attack with your off-hand weapon.
Make a Standard attack, gain additional damage equal to the lesser of 1 die damage from your main or off-hand weapon without bonuses.
Unarmed
You are not using a weapon and are not trained in Combat Martial Arts. You normally do 1d3 + Strength modifier in Nonlethal damage (some feats may extend this). Any attack that you make Unarmed can provoke an Attack of Opportunity.
Unconscious
All melee attacks against you are automatic Critical Hits. All other attacks against you gain a +4 bonus to hit. You cannot flank enemies or help an ally gain flanking. You cannot make Attacks of Opportunity or use immediate actions. On your turn you take no actions, but can still make saving throws.
Vehicles
When using a vehicle in combat (5 foot scale) it moves at alley speeds (up to 20 squares). It must move at least its full length before it can turn 45-degrees (forward or backward) turning on the back corner in the direction of the turn, if turning would cause the vehicle to at any time overlap a creature they collide. Unlike creatures a vehicle must pay attention to facing. Vehicle occupant(s) are generally considered to have Full Cover unless the vehicle notes otherwise. In general a vehicle otherwise conforms to the other rules.
At larger scales a vehicle uses its other speed categories. In chase (50 foot scale) a vehicle normally moves at Ally and Street Speeds but can go as fast as Highway speeds. In flight (500 foot scale) a vehicle can go All-out.
HEROES
Each player takes the role of a Hero. Heroes can do more than ordinary people or creatures and even at first level have a substantial array of abilities. As a hero gains Experience they can advance in level and become more powerful.
Race
In the Modern setting all characters are assumed to be Human, though other settings may allow for other races. As human gain +2 to any two separate ability scores; gain 1 additional Feat and 1 bonus Skill training point at 1st level; gain a +1 bonus on Saving Throws; and your base speed is 6 squares (30-feet). Apply these bonuses as the classes are presented as Race independent.
Ability Scores
There are several ways to generate your character’s ability scores. This is ultimately up the GM to decide which method to use. Below are the two most common.
Roll: Six times roll 4d6 (keeping the best thee die each time), arrange these scores among the six abilities (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). You must keep the scores as rolled unless no score provides a bonus, or 3 or more scores give negative modifiers. Lastly apply any Racial ability score bonuses.
Point-Buy: The GM decides on the level of play and the players receive this many points to buy their ability scores (Realistic – 15 points, Heroic – 25 points, Superheroic – 32 points). Buy 6 ability scores between 8 and 18 (8 = 0; 9 = 1; 10 = 2; 11 = 3; 12 = 4; 13 = 5; 14 = 6; 15 = 8; 16 = 10; 17 = 13; 18 = 16). Place the purchased scores in each of the 6 Abilities. Lastly apply any Racial ability score bonuses. This is the preferred method to generate ability scores. The Modern setting normally uses the Heroic (25) level of play.
Starting Occupation
Each character chooses a starting occupation; the choices may be limited by the GM depending on the sort of campaign he is running. A starting occupation provides the following benefits:
Prerequisites: Conditions the character must meet before they can select this occupation.
Occupation Skills: These are skills used by the occupation and are considered class skills that a character may choose to be Trained along with their normal class skills at first level. An occupation skill that is also a regular class skill grants a +2 competency bonus whenever it is trained.
Bonus Feat: A class may grant Feat(s) that the character can select as a free Feat at first level.
Wealth: This is the amount of wealth that the occupation grants the character at first level for purchasing equipment and property.
Reputation: This is how well known the character is by virtue of their occupation. Some occupations grant greater exposure than others. If you are favorably known you add your Reputation to Gather Information and Persuasion checks. If you are unfavorably known your opponents add your reputation to their Perception checks. Otherwise this bonus does not apply.
Reputation Bonus:
+10 or greater : You are immediately recognized, you are extremely famous.
+5 to +9 : You are recognized by those who are part of your profession or social circle.
+2 to +4 : Those in your social circle recognize you, you have some notoriety.
+1 or less : Really only your immediate friends, family, and coworkers recognize you.
Level
There are two kinds of levels: Character and Class. Character level is the total level of the character and defines how much experience is needed to attain the next character level. Class level is the level a character has in a specific class. Any time a character increases their Character level they may choose to advance a class they already have or acquire first class level in a class for which they are qualified. Regardless of class characters receive the following:
Level Advancement: A character needs to gain enough experience to equal their current character level times 1,000 to reach the next character level. In general a character goes through roughly 10 encounters to receive enough experience to reach the next level.
Feats: At first character level select any 1 feat for which the character is qualified (note: as a human this is 2). At character levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18 acquire any new feat for which the character is qualified.
Ability Increases: At levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 gain +1 to any two different Ability scores.
Class
There are three class levels: Basic, Advanced, and Prestige. At first level a character chooses one of the Basic classes to start in. In d20 Modern there are six Basic Classes, though other settings may provide additional basic classes as well. The Modern classes are Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, and Charismatic hero; each class provides talents that focus on a specific ability. Each class provides the following benefits (regardless of level):
Key Ability: For basic classes this is one of the six ability scores, for advanced and prestige classes these may be other things. This is the key power for a class.
Role(s): This is the role or roles this class fills in a party and can be a Controller, Defender, Leader, or Striker or combination of the same. Class talents and features are choices along these lines.
Starting Hit Points: These are the hit points the class starts with and are added to a character’s Constitution score to give that character’s total starting hit points at first character level, some abilities can further improve this.
Per Level Hit Points: These are the hit points the class gives at each level after the first character level (character level) and are added to a character’s Constitution modifier.
Action Point Bonus: These are the bonus Action Points the class provides for determining a character’s starting Action Points. This bonus is added to the character’s general Bonus and is reset each time a character increases their level. Use the best available Action Point Bonus from all class(s) a character has, they do not stack.
Training Points: At first character level these are the number of points a character has to train in their Class Skills. A character adds their Intelligence modifier to give the total number of Training Points available to use at first character level. Beyond first character level Training Points no longer apply.
Class Skills: Skills a character can use their Training points to train in along with their Occupation Skills. A trained class skill grants use of that skill (if trained only) and a +5 modifier in its use.
Starting Feats: Bonus feat(s) provided by the class at first class level.
Class Bonuses: These are bonuses the class provides at first class level to Attack, each Defense, Reputation, and/or some Class skills.
Class Talents: At first class level and every other class level thereafter select a Talent from that class’s list of talents. Alternately may select a Talent for which the character otherwise qualifies (race, feat, or power talent trees). A talent either provides a bonus or an action that the character can perform.
Class Features: Abilities the class provides usually in the form of bonus feats or special class abilities as good as or better than a feat. The class defines which bonus feats are available to select. Class abilities are usually actions that the character can perform.
Class Level: Basic and Advanced classes have only 10 levels, while Prestige classes only have 5. This means that eventually a character will have to choose new class(s) in order to continue advancing. For Basic classes, levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 provide a Talent and levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 provide a bonus feat. For Advanced classes, levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 provide a Talent and levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 provide a class feature. For Prestige classes each of its five levels provide both a Talent and a class feature.
Wealth
Wealth is a composite of income, credit rating, savings, and cold hard cash and is represented by a level. The higher the level the greater the personal assets available to the character, there is no technical upper limit but this value cannot be less than 0.
Wealth Level: A character’s wealth reflects the scope of equipment and property they can own. A character is assumed to possess at a minimum a minimal residence like a small apartment, some clothes, access to transportation, and various inconsequential personal possessions; anything more than this requires the character to purchase those items. Initial Wealth Level is defined by starting occupation.
Purchase Level: Items have a relative value versus wealth, this is their purchase level. Licenses for items are assumed in their Purchase Level, owning an item means you are able to do so legally. When purchasing more than one of the same item you are purchasing it in a Lot; for two of the same item increase PL +2, for each additional item up to four more (6 total) increment PL an additional +1 (+6 total) for each item; thereafter for each half-again increase in lot size increase PL +1. A Lot counts as a single item when determining Ownership slots, the total cost of a Lot cannot exceed Wealth Level.
Ownership: A character may acquire items that are less than or up to +20 more than their Wealth Level. A character normally does not own more items than the following:
Total Items: equal to Wealth Level (WL).
Low Cost Items: any number, may purchase in lots, less than or equal to WL.
Mid-Range Items: no more than 1/2 of items (round up), 1-10 + WL.
High-Range Items: no more than 1/4 of items (round up), 11-15 + WL.
Upper-Range Items: no more than 1/8 of items (round up), 16-19 + WL.
Maximum Cost Item: only 1 item worth 20 + WL.
Extra Items: You may own more items than WL, but lose Wealth doing so (see below).
Selling Items: By selling an item that frees up an ownership slot for owning something of that expense and the character may then acquire a new item within that purchase range. For trivial items it does not matter as the character receives little benefit from buying or selling these things individually rather than in significant lots.
Rewards: Rewards are essentially Purchase Level given to the character or items acquired. At the end of the adventure apply your reward. For items you may either keep the item (and sell one you own if this would surpass your Ownership slots) or sell it, when selling an item in this way you gain the benefit of the reward. For your reward compare the Purchase Level of the reward to your Wealth level and apply the following:
Reward Less than equal to WL –5: No increase in Wealth Level.
Reward between WL –5 and –4: Wealth Level +1.
Reward between WL –3 and WL +1: Wealth Level +2.
Reward between WL +2 and +3: Wealth Level +3.
Reward greater than equal to WL +4: Adjust Wealth Level to equal Reward amount.
Level Advancement: Every even level (2, 4, 6, 8, etc…) gain +1 Wealth Level.
Losing Wealth: You may purchase or have more items than your Ownership allows, for each additional item purchased decrement Wealth Level –1 point. This represents stretching your finances to the limit. If you have more than 1 item of High-Range (10-15 + WL) or greater you cannot purchase new items at all until you have reduced total number of items down to your Wealth Level and are within Ownership slot limits. Once Wealth is lost it cannot be regained by selling items, this represents repossession and bad financial decisions. Buying lots of consumables like ammunition boxes could eventually lead to wealth loss purely because an expended consumable can’t be sold, only thrown away once total items exceeds Wealth Level.
Requisitions
A character may work for an agency or some organization. As part of their job they may be able to requisition various pieces of equipment in order to complete their job. A character may requisition any item from their organization provided that after they are done they return it. The likely-hood of a character receiving authorization of his or her requisition is dependant on their level, the job being performed, and their Bureaucracy knowledge skill.
Check: Roll d20 + Character Level + Bureaucracy skill modifier + Persuasion skill modifier + Requisition modifiers. Succeed and the character takes ownership of the requisitioned item, fail and the organization rejects the request. Only one request may be made per mission meaning the character will have to requisition all the items they want at once. As requisitioned items must be returned after each mission this must be done every time a character embarks on a mission.
Difficulty Check: The difficulty of attaining a requisition is determined by the Purchase Level of the most expensive item in the requisition order, if there is more than one item, increase this cost by +2 regardless of the number of items. Add to this any modifiers relating to the mission and past return history.
Requisition Modifiers (Check): Apply these modifiers when making a requisition check.
+6 : All equipment is necessary for mission;
+4 : or some equipment is necessary for mission or has obvious application;
+2 : or some equipment has peripheral application for mission.
+2 : Hero is skilled or proficient in use of all equipment.
+2 : Hero returned all gear undamaged after previous mission.
Requisition Modifiers (Difficulty): Apply these modifiers to the Difficulty check.
+6 : Hero did not return all gear or returned gear was damaged after previous mission.
+4 : None of the equipment has obvious applications for job.
+2 : For each item in requisition that is considered rare or hard to find or replace.
Requisition Limit: An organization or agency may have substantial resources but there are limits. This number is the maximum purchase level for any item that you can requisition from your agency or organization.
SKILLS
Skills represent a character’s ability to do various things like jump over a chasm, climb a rope, bluff their way out of trouble, and so forth. Skills can be Trained adding a bonus to use and allowing access and use of some skills that can only be used trained; some skills can be used untrained.
Skill Check: Roll a d20 + Skill modifier + situational modifier(s) against a target; meet or exceed the target and you were successful, get less than the target and you were unsuccessful.
Trained Skills: You gain a +5 modifier on a trained skill and can use that skill and all of its features. You are trained in a skill either because you spent Training Points to become trained, or you used the Skill Training feat to become trained in that skill.
Untrained Skills: Skills that you are untrained in. If the skill can be used untrained you may do so; otherwise if the skill can only be used trained you cannot use this skill.
Universal Skills: These are skills that can be used and trained regardless of class; these skills can also all be used untrained. Acrobatics, Athletics, Perception and Passive Perception, and Stealth are universal skills.
Acrobatics (DEX) (Balance, Escape Artist, Tumble)
*Armor Penalty
Use this skill to test your balance and agility. Use this generally as a Dexterity check.
Training: You may use this skill untrained.
Trained: Gain benefit of Tumble: +2 Reflex Defense; and on a successful skill check DC 15 you do not trigger an Attack of Opportunity when you otherwise would; you may stand up as a free action.
Athletics (STR) (Climb, Jump, Swim)
*Armor Penalty
Use this skill to perform a physical action like climbing, jumping, or swimming. Use this generally as a Strength check.
Training: You may use this skill untrained.
Computer Use (INT)
Use a computer to write a program, hack or defend a computer, or do research. This is more than just turning a computer on and checking email.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Deception (CHA) (Bluff, Disguise)
Use this skill to Bluff, Disguise, Fast-talk, and Lie.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Drive (DEX)
Drive a basic surface vehicle like a car, truck, or boat. You may need the Vehicle Operations feat to drive more advanced vehicles.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Endurance (CON)
Use this skill to stave off ill-effects or push beyond normal limits. Generally use this as a Constitution check.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Trained: Gain +2 bonus on Saving Throws; you may use this to make an opposed check against Bull Rush and Grapple attempts.
Gather Information (CHA)
Use this skill to gather information from various sources.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Knowledge (INT):
You have received an academic or studied background in one of the following subjects.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Common Knowledge: DC 10, you can reflexively answer basic questions on a Knowledge check.
Expert Knowledge: DC (varies), you can give a detailed and expert answer on a Knowledge check.
Ability: Some knowledge categories allow for doing more than just know something (see below).
Each time you train in Intelligence select a field of study from the list below:
Bureaucracy (business, civics) – You know about organizational structures, legal systems and regulations, business principles, and the government. Gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Perception checks (passive and normal) when dealing with bureaucratic social encounters; you may only do this once in an encounter.
History (Decipher Script, current events, history) – Recent happenings in the news, sports, politics, entertainment and foreign affairs; events, personalities, and cultures of the past; and archaeology and antiquities. Techniques for analyzing and deciphering unknown written languages. On a History check DC 15 identify the organization unknown opponents belong to (if any); on success grant a +2 bonus to Will Defense for yourself and your allies; you may only do this once during an encounter.
Life Sciences (Craft pharmaceutical, life sciences) – Biology, botany, genetics, paleontology, medicine, and forensics. Due to your knowledge gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Treat Injury and Survival checks. With the appropriate equipment and supplies you can craft pharmaceuticals.
Physical Sciences (Craft chemical, physical sciences) – Astronomy, chemistry, mathematics, physics, engineering, and geology. Grant a +2 circumstance bonus on all Mechanics checks. With the appropriate equipment and supplies you can craft chemicals and explosives.
Social Sciences (Craft visual art & writing, art, popular culture, theology and philosophy) – the arts, liberal arts, philosophy concepts, popular culture, religious faith and practices. Gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Perception checks (passive and normal) against Deception. You may craft visual arts or writing.
Streetwise – Street and urban culture, local underworld personalities and events. On a Streetwise check DC 15 identify the identity of unknown opponents either individually or as a group; on success grant a +2 bonus to Will Defense for yourself and your allies; you may only do this once during an encounter.
Tactics – Techniques and strategies for disposing and maneuvering forces in combat. Use a leadership talent, feat, or ability and grant a +2 bonus to allies that benefit and act under your leadership. At the start of an Encounter make a skill check DC 15, succeed and add +2 to initiative checks for you and your allies.
Technology – Function and principle of technological devices as well as current developments in cutting-edge devices. Due to your knowledge gain a +2 circumstance bonus on all Mechanics checks. On a successful check DC 15 you can use a device with which you are unfamiliar or are not trained as if you were trained (like a weapon, computer, or vehicle).
Languages (INT)
You know how to speak and read/write your native language. Normally you may speak or read/write a number of languages equal to your Intelligence modifier, if this is 0 or less then you can speak or read/write no additional languages.
Training: You may use this skill untrained.
Trained: You may speak or read/write a number of languages equal to your Languages modifier. You may attempt to discern and convey meaning in an unknown spoken language with a successful Languages check DC 15; this only allows for a general understanding.
Mechanics (INT) (Craft electronic/mechanical/structural, Demolitions, Disable Device, Repair)
*Armor Penalty
Use this skill to craft devices or structures, perform demolitions either to place or defeat, set or defeat traps, activate or disable devices, or repair damaged objects.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Perception (WIS) (Listen, Sense Motive, Search, Spot)
Use this skill to notice clues, spot immanent danger, and locate hidden objects. Also use this skill to gain insight on intent, decipher body language, and make a best guess about a target’s motives, attitude, and truthfulness.
Training: You may use this skill untrained.
Active: Any time you want suspect something is up you may use this skill to listen, sense motives, search, or spot something; succeed and discover something (if anything is detectable), fail and you perceive nothing.
Passive: You use this skill passively, the DC for opponents trying to deceive, persuade, or hide is equal to 10 + Perception modifier.
Persuasion (CHA) (Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform, Handle Animal)
Use this skill to influence others either through tact and social grace, intimidation, or performance. You may also use this skill to handle animals. Generally use this as a Charisma check.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Pilot (DEX)
Use this skill to fly a general-purpose fixed-wing aircraft. You may need the Aircraft Operations feat to fly more advanced aircraft.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Ride (DEX)
Use this skill to ride and guide the movement of a creature. The creature must be at least 1 size category larger for you to ride it.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Stealth (DEX) (Hide, Move Silently)
*Armor Penalty
Use this skill to hide and move silently.
Training: You may use this skill untrained.
Special: When an opponent makes a Perception check after you have defeated their passive Perception make their DC = 10 + Stealth.
Survival (WIS) (Navigate, Survival)
Use this skill to navigate, forage, track, and live in the wild. Also use this skill to survive in extreme circumstances like being trapped or protect yourself against hostile conditions.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
Trained: Gain +2 circumstance bonus to Defenses against effects that would trigger ongoing damage.
Treat Injury (WIS)
Use this skill to administer first aid, stabilize a dying character, grant a saving throw, or treat injuries or diseases.
Training: You cannot use this skill untrained.
FEATS
Feats are special abilities that a character can acquire to grant them training, proficiency, modifiers, activations, or actions. Normally a feat does not require an Action Point to use, though a special function could require it. Feats that grant actions are normally at-will or per encounter abilities. A feat generally provides the equivalent of a +4 bonus or one ability.
Skill Feats: These feats improve your skills.
Proficiency Feats: These feats grant you training or proficiency.
Bonus Feats: These feats grant you a bonus.
Activation Feats: These feats are gate-way feats into Action suites.
Action Feats: Gain a special at-will or encounter action, arranged in suites via an activation feat.
(Some examples, by no means exhaustive)
Advanced Firearms Proficiency
*Activation
You can use firearms set on autofire.
Prerequisite: Weapon Proficiency (personal firearms).
Benefit: You can fire any personal firearm that can and is on autofire and gain its proficiency bonus.
Normal: Characters without this feat do not gain the proficiency bonus when using a personal firearm to autofire.
Attack Bonus
*Bonus
You are very good at hitting your targets.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to hit on your attacks. Your Attack Bonus is equal to your character level instead of the normal Bonus.
Attentive
*Skill Bonus
You are acutely observant.
Prerequisite: You must be trained in the Persuasion and Gather Information skills.
Benefit: You get +2 on all Perception checks and Gather Information checks.
Immediate Attack
*Action, Encounter
You are good at interrupting the actions of your opponents.
Prerequisite: Dexterity 13, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack.
Benefit: So long as you have an Immediate action remaining this round, you may treat any action by any opponent at any range as a trigger for an Attack of Opportunity. You may attack an opponent more than once in this way.
Normal: Normally a character can only deliver one Attack of Opportunity against a specific opponent during a round. Attacks of Opportunity are normally triggered by a fairly narrow set of actions performed within threatened squares.
Multi-Attack
*Action, At-Will
You have trained to deliver multiple attacks in a very short amount of time.
Prerequisite: Dexterity 13, Combat Reflexes, Melee or Ranged attack bonus +10.
Benefit: As a Full-Round action you make several standard attacks with a weapon that has an attack bonus of at least +10. For every +5 attack bonus (round down) you can make 1 attack, at a minimum you can make 2 attacks.
Normal: Normally a character makes only 1 standard attack on their turn.
Skill Training
*Proficiency
You become trained in a new skill.
Benefit: Select any one skill that you are not trained in, apply this feat, and you are now trained in your selected skill.
Toughness
*Bonus
You are tougher than normal.
Benefit: You gain +3 hit points and add your character level to your hit point total.
Vehicle Expert
*Skill Bonus
You are adept at operating vehicles.
Prerequisite: You must be trained in the Drive and Pilot skills.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Drive checks and Pilot checks.
Weapon Focus
*Activation
Choose a specific weapon that you are proficient with. You are especially good at using this weapon. You can choose unarmed strike for your weapon for purposes of this feat.
Prerequisite: Proficient with weapon, attack bonus +1 with weapon.
Benefit: You gain +1 to attack and damage when using the selected weapon. You are also able to select weapon talents from this weapon’s category where the selected weapon is the key weapon for the talents chosen. You choose one weapon talent upon taking this feat and may choose additional weapon talents any time you would normally acquire a new talent.
Special: You may take this feat any number of times. Each time you take this feat you must select a different weapon.
Weapon Proficiency
*Proficiency
Select a class of weapon that you will be proficient with (archaic, personal firearms, simple, exotic melee, or exotic ranged). You are proficient with this type of weapon.
Prerequisite: Simple weapons are a universally free class skill. You may take archaic or personal firearms at any time. You may only take exotic melee weapons if you are proficient with archaic weapons, when you do this select one exotic melee weapon; you are proficient with this weapon. You may only take exotic ranged weapons if you are proficient with personal firearms, when you do this select one exotic ranged weapon; you are proficient with this weapon.
Benefit: When you use a weapon when you are proficient in its class you gain its proficiency bonus(s).
Normal: Characters without this feat do not gain any proficiency bonus for using a weapon when he or she is not proficient in its class.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take the feat, you select the a new class of weapons to be proficient with.
EQUIPMENT
These are the character’s possessions both in terms of items they physically have on their person at any given time or property they own in general. In total you may not own more items than your Wealth Level without incurring penalties like loss in Wealth or a prohibition in purchasing more equipment.
Weapons
Weapons allow you to deal damage to your opponents. You may use weapons untrained but you are provided no bonuses and you cannot use those weapons in conjunction with abilities.
Proficiency: You are trained in the use of a class of weapons, you gain weapon proficiency benefits for weapons of this class when used, and you may use this weapon in conjunction with abilities that require a weapon. In general light weapons grant a +3 to hit proficiency bonus and do a low amount of damage; medium weapons +2 to hit and moderate damage; and heavy weapons +1 to hit and heavy damage.
Damage: The base amount of damage a weapon does.
Damage Type: They type of damage the weapon inflicts; different types of damage can have various effects. Normally attacks are against Reflex Defense, but some damage types may target Fortitude or Will Defense instead. Lastly some damage types may trigger an ongoing effect on a successful hit.
Critical: The critical hit range of the weapon, this is normally 20, but could be 19–20 or even better depending on the type and precision of the weapon. Extended critical range is only valid if the character is proficient in this class of weapon, otherwise is only 20 regardless.
Range (Increment): Melee weapons have adjacent or reach for range. Ranged weapons have range increments. Adjacent means the weapon can be used to attack only into adjacent squares. Reach means the weapon can only attack targets 2 squares away, to attack an adjacent square means the character will have to make an unarmed attack. Range increments mean that for every X number of feet (squares) the attack has to travel that attack takes a –2 penalty.
Rate of Fire: For ranged weapons this is the number of attacks that the weapon can make in a round. This is Single Shot (1 attack per round), Semiautomatic (make as many shots as you can pull the trigger), and Automatic (fire a stream of shots either in a burst or to attack an area). Weapons with more than one type of RoF have a selector that a proficient character can change between as a Minor action (a move action for a non-proficient character).
Magazine: For ranged firearms this is how many shots the weapon has available before a reload is required. There are different types of magazines: box, cylinder, or internal. Reloading is generally a move or full-round action.
Size: The size of the weapon, used to determine ease of concealment and difficulty in handling and moving.
Weight: The weight of the weapon, important for encumbrance calculations.
Category: The type of weapon, defines available weapon Talents for Weapon Focus, and weapon combinations for Two-Weapon Fighting.
Properties: Usage rules and special weapon features. Nothing means the weapon can be used in one hand normally. Two-Handed means the weapon can only be used with two hands. Versatile means the weapon can be used to make an off-hand attack (see Two-Weapon Fighting). Load Free Action is usually used for weapons like bows. Or other properties.
Purchase Level: The purchase cost of the weapon, also includes any licenses necessary to legally own this weapon.
Focus/Talents: You focus your training on one weapon, you receive a +2 bonus to attack when using this weapon, you may choose weapon specific Talents in addition to your normal Talents, upon taking this feat choose one weapon specific Talent. Each time you take this feat, choose a different weapon. The weapon will describe what Talents are available to it.
Armor
Armor is used to bolster your defenses. You may use armor untrained and receive only the armor Fortitude Defense bonus, with training you gain the proficiency bonuses. Generally donning or doffing armor takes several minutes and is not an exercise that can be performed during an Encounter, you either start the encounter equipped or you do not.
Proficiency: You are trained in the use of a class of armor; you gain the benefit of its proficiency. Normally this is a bonus to Reflex Defense, but may also provide additional special benefits. Classes of armor are Light, Medium, and Heavy.
Type: This is the type of armor and may provide special properties. To use these properties you must be proficient in the use of the armor. Impromptu armor are simple items easily equipped, you may don or doff this armor as a Full-Round action. Archaic armor are ancient forms of armor like chain mail or plate, the systems are bulky and take several minutes to put on or take off, they provide a low Reflex Defense but a fairly high Fortitude Defense. Concealable armor can be worn under your cloths and is normally difficult to spot, it is usually fairly light and can be donned or doffed within a minute or two, these tend to have a fairly good Reflex Defense but a low Fortitude Defense. Tactical armor is fairly bulky and designed to provide a strong defense, it cannot be concealed and provides both a good Reflex and Fortitude Defense. There are other types of armor as well.
Fortitude: Add this to your Fortitude Defense regardless of proficiency.
Maximum Dexterity Bonus: Armor tends to be bulky and reduces mobility limiting the use of Dexterity Bonus to Defense. Light armor does not limit the Dexterity bonus to Defense; Medium armor only allows up to +4 from Dexterity to Defense. Heavy armor does not allow Dexterity modifier to Defense. Some abilities can alter this.
Armor Penalty: Wearing armor makes it difficult to perform some tasks, apply this penalty to skills or abilities that suffer from Armor Penalty.
Speed Penalty: Reduce your speed by this amount when wearing this armor, the heavier the armor the more it weighs you down. Generally Light armor does not impose a speed penalty; Medium armor reduces speed –1 square; and Heavy armor reduces speed –2 squares. Some abilities can alter this.
Weight: The weight of the armor, important for encumbrance calculations.
Purchase Level: The purchase cost of the armor, also includes any licenses necessary to legally own this armor.
Equipment
Equipment is used to carry items, perform jobs, or provide certain modern features such as communications; and is normally used in conjunction with skill checks. Anyone can use Equipment, but being trained in certain skills gets the most out of that equipment.
Size: The size category of the equipment, determines ease of concealment and difficulty in handling and moving.
Weight: The weight of the item, important for encumbrance calculations.
Purchase Level: The purchase cost of the item, also includes any licenses necessary to legally own this item.
Features: What this item is used for and any benefits it provides when used in conjunction with a particular skill.
Vehicles
A vehicle is a type of equipment that allows a character to move around much more quickly than if they were on foot. Vehicles are normally used as plot elements to transport characters from one location to another. However, in some encounters the vehicle may be of tactical significance. The main use of a vehicle in an encounter is usually to provide cover and an obstacle to movement; but it can also be used to move and fight as well.
Training: Normally to use a vehicle you must be trained in either the Drive or Pilot skills and permits attempts at special vehicle maneuvers. In addition, some advanced vehicles may require you to take feats in the Operation of that vehicle. A character with knowledge of Technology can attempt to deduce how to operate a vehicle when they are otherwise untrained but cannot use any special maneuvers that training provides.
Vehicle Type: This is the type of vehicle and may be a surface vehicle, aircraft, or watercraft; and may be a standard or advanced vehicle. Use the Drive skill to operate surface vehicles and watercraft; and use the Pilot skill to operate aircraft. Acquire the necessary Operations feat to operate advanced vehicles.
Crew: The number of characters required to operate this vehicle, with a crew of less than this the vehicle loses functions and may not even be able to operate at all.
Passengers: This is the number of places available for passengers; alternately a passenger space can have a medium-size object placed there instead.
Cargo: This is expressed in space and is usually one to two size categories smaller than the vehicle. The cargo space can accommodate objects whose total size and weight does not exceed the cargo rating.
Initiative: The modifier added to the operator’s initiative check when using this vehicle. This is normally a size adjustment, but high performance vehicles may improve this.
Maneuver: Add this modifier to any Drive or Pilot checks attempted with the vehicle. Normally this is a size adjustment, but high performance vehicles may improve this.
Top Speed: The maximum number of squares the vehicle can cover in 1 round (chase scale in parenthesis). This is the fastest the vehicle can move.
Defense: The vehicle’s base defense (essentially Reflex Defense), add the Pilot’s or Driver’s Dexterity modifier and Bonus to this number.
Hardness: The vehicle’s hardness, subtract this number from any single source of damage dealt to the vehicle.
Hit Points: The vehicle’s full normal hit points. Recover hit points by making repairs, the time it takes to make repairs is in hours meaning this cannot be done during an encounter. When a vehicle is reduced to 0 hit points it is destroyed and can no longer function, essentially totaled/burned out.
Size: The size of the vehicle and the physical space it occupies. For most vehicles a character can climb over a stationary vehicle treating it as difficult terrain.
Purchase Level: The purchase cost of the vehicle, also any licenses necessary to own and operate it.
Property
Property are significant items a character owns like a house, land, artwork, and so-forth. These things provide a benefit of space for storing possessions and living in general but otherwise do not provide any significant statistics.
Purchase Level: The purchase cost of the property, also any licenses necessary to own it.
Feature: What the property provides, this may just be the wealth of the property or it may provide various uses.
Life Style and Services
A character engages in various consumable services related to their life style and needed functions like medical care or repair shop bills. It is generally assumed that a character is able to provide for their basic needs in terms of food, shelter, and clothing. Beyond this the character assumes new stresses on their finances and adds the bill for a service to their Ownership slots. As these are consumables the only way to get rid of them is to purchase more items than available Ownership slots and then decrement wealth to get rid of it.
Trivial Expenses: These are purchased services that have no significant impact on a character’s wealth and are easily paid off either through cash on hand or the credit impact is of no real consequence. If the purchase level of a life style or service charge is 10 or less lower than a character’s Wealth Level do not add the use of this service to their Ownership slots.
Purchase Level: The purchase cost of the life style choice or service, also any licenses necessary to use it.
Feature: Any benefits the life style choice or service provides.
I'll now crawl back into the hole from whence I came... :embarrass
but I remember back in the day....
We played out imaginary pen, paper, & dice games with pens, papers, dice, and imagination.
The DM would describe (yes, DM as in DungeonMaster, thats what they were called... and why it is the DungeonMasterGuide and not the GameMastersGuide)... the DM would describe with vivid & horible details the abhoration coming out of the darkness. Now GMs are supposed to just plop a $18 Beholder Miniature down on the table with a "Lets fight one of these" followed by players filled with glee "Wow, cool" rather than, "OMG We run like cats on fire from whatever that thing is"
As demonstrated by the allpowerful Yogurt in the movie Spaceballs,
Merchandizing the game has taken over playing the game. You no longer play D&D, you buy D&D stuff & use it till you can buy the next tier in PowerCreep they will sell the minmaxers & mini-collectors.
2 books & 5 dice should be all you need to play a D&D game of imagination,
rather than watering it down because "Math Is Hard" (and dont forget that the HARD MATH is just "+-x/"), and despite there being a plethera of $2 - $50 painted plastic "Orc With Axe" minis out there we still say "Pennies are Axemen and Nickles are Archers, Skittles are Giant Rats, and the BottleCap is... Dave, stop eating the giant rats"
Was I going anywhere with this rant?
Oh yeah, 5.7 aint 2d8, and the McRules are McBad.
@ Stabbist: But Sam Fisher uses a FiveseveN?
:D
I wrote this stuff down as a first draft and expect some of what I wrote didn't come out as intended (for instance I think some of my example feats may be overpowered or just plain wrong). I am really interested in what is good, what is bad, and why.
For example:
I personally like the wealth system update I came up with. Admittedly I think it could use a little more work and refinement.
At the core of the revised system is that you don't actually lose wealth for using it, you just lose the ability gain more stuff until you settle the bills by either increasing your wealth level or getting rid of your debts (open up ownership slots)
The old wealth system was ok in the low range (i.e. wealth bonus of +0 to +20) but once you got beyond that it became unbelievable. For instance a multimillionaire that bought a single assault rifle would take a million dollar wealth bonus hit (-1 wealth for purchasing an item with a purchase DC of 15+) while a blue collar worker with maybe 10 bucks in his pocket skips out on rent this month to buy the same weapon. WTF???
In the new system wealth becomes a level and defines how much stuff you can own and how much of a stretch it is financially for your character to own it. If you push your finances too much you lose wealth and it becomes next to impossible to buy or sell anything until you drop some of those big ticket items that are killing your credit. At a certain level some items become trivial to acquire outside of substantial lots. Buying stuff doesn't kill your wealth, wealth is a description of what you own anyway; bad financial decisions are what destroy your wealth.
So a blue collar worker with maybe 10 bucks in his pocket might be able to acquire one assault rifle with ammunition as his one Upper Range item and a Low Cost item (2 out of say his 8 total items). While a multimillionaire could easily purchase a lot of assault rifles (maybe 200) and a significant amount of ammunition (lot of 400 boxes) for all of them as two Low Cost items (2 out of say his 50 total items).
This might encourage players to come at the game from different perspectives. One player might make his character extremely wealthy (dilletant with a couple of windfall feats for a wealth level of say 24, Mr. Moneybags) allowing him to basically have a treasure trove of equipment that he loans to the other players; but of himself has few real capabilities. The other players then focus on building characters who are exceptional at what they do, not being concerned with their personal wealth as they rely on Mr. Moneybags to ensure the party has all the equipment they need.
(Hey a new role: Controller, Defender, Leader, Striker, and Equipper (i.e. Mr. Moneybags))
backstabbist:
I completely understand your rant and completely agree with it except for a couple of things.
Support!
d20 Modern is a dead entity. Wizards barely expends perhaps the efforts of a single intern to keep the d20 boards going, and now are getting ready to shut most if not all of them down.
The effort of support such as free adventures, rules clarifications, articles, and so forth (as seen when Modern was first launched) is directly proportional to revenue generated by product sales. There are no product sales thus there is no official support for like the last couple of YEARS.
Produce a revenue generating product and it gets support. Evidence the brisk business of Wizard's collectables games like Magic, Starwars CCG and minis, and D&D RPG and minis (rpg just got another revision!). The revenue games generate a lot of official commentary in the form of articles, maps, art, new development, realtime Q&A, and so on.
Time!
You and I are both old hands at D&D. Pointedly, regardless of how a campaign started or who started it, invariably I would end up the Dungeon Master. This was purely due to table/player management where we could count on getting through at least two maybe three encounters in a game session. And that would still take about 5 hours to resolve. Anyone else that would try and DM might get through one encounter in that same amount of time. My secret was that I didn't get stuck on the minutia and focused on the meaningful elements and often boiled a complex series of rules down to the rolls the players needed to make.
Working with the newer rules and using minis to resolve the action (granted coins, skittles, and bottle caps work just as well) cut a game that would have taken either one long or two moderate game sessions to complete (maybe 5-8 hours) down to one short game session (2.5 hours including set-up and up-front rules explaination).
The other element that was fun was that characters were more survivable, at level 1 it was like starting play with level 4 characters. Right off the bat the players were real heroes! I didn't have to either start the game at a higher level or throw hordes of sewer rats at them before they player characters became interesting. At first level they could conceaveably take on a dragon, albeit a young one.
I do not have a ton of time to devote to playing games, so I REALLY appreciate anything that speeds up play. I enjoy a game that allows for an adventure (4-10 encounters) to be completed in one game session (2-5 hours) rather than over several sessions; allowing each session to be the next chapter in a campaign. An adventure should be maybe like an episode from a television or movie series, while the campaign should be like either a season or the complete series. In that spirit completing an adventure in a single game session only makes it that much more immersive and satisfying play experience.
So yeah, simplify the math, steamline the rules, and let's get down to the nitty gritty and not spend 10-30 minutes trying to account for a single character/creature's turn while simultaneously keeping the interest of the other players. The new 4e rules appear to speed things up and players are waiting with baited breath for their turn so they can do something amazing. Their interest is maintained because a player only has to wait maybe 1-5 minutes for every other character/creature in the encounter to resolve their action before getting a chance to act again. A real action/adventure experience.
This may be just my gray hair talkin,
but I remember back in the day....
We played out imaginary pen, paper, & dice games with pens, papers, dice, and imagination.
The DM would describe (yes, DM as in DungeonMaster, thats what they were called... and why it is the DungeonMasterGuide and not the GameMastersGuide)... the DM would describe with vivid & horible details the abhoration coming out of the darkness. Now GMs are supposed to just plop a $18 Beholder Miniature down on the table with a "Lets fight one of these" followed by players filled with glee "Wow, cool" rather than, "OMG We run like cats on fire from whatever that thing is"
As demonstrated by the allpowerful Yogurt in the movie Spaceballs,
Merchandizing the game has taken over playing the game. You no longer play D&D, you buy D&D stuff & use it till you can buy the next tier in PowerCreep they will sell the minmaxers & mini-collectors.
2 books & 5 dice should be all you need to play a D&D game of imagination,
rather than watering it down because "Math Is Hard" (and dont forget that the HARD MATH is just "+-x/"), and despite there being a plethera of $2 - $50 painted plastic "Orc With Axe" minis out there we still say "Pennies are Axemen and Nickles are Archers, Skittles are Giant Rats, and the BottleCap is... Dave, stop eating the giant rats"
Was I going anywhere with this rant?
Oh yeah, 5.7 aint 2d8, and the McRules are McBad.
And here I thought I was the only one.
PROUDLY playing 1st AD&D since 1985. No substitutions, additions, or fillers.
Doug
Goodness, too many Skittles...
Doug
- Per encounter/daily Combat Abilities
- Per encounter/daily Magic Abiities
- The Saga Skill and 4e system: Uggh!
- Marking
- 4e treatement of hp and certain attacks doing hp damage on a miss.
- bleeding
- negative hit points
I will accept:
- the unified saving throw progression
- no XP/level drain from monsters
- doing away with PrCs (but please no Paragon Paths or Epic Desitinies)
- new burst and autofire rules
- a damage track for hit point loss
- removal of negative hp for Death and Dying rules resembling those in Unearthed Arcana.
- combat maneuvers resembling those in Mearl's Book of Iron Might
- a magic system resembling Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth
- a psionic system resembling that in Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook
However, I expect the mechanics to resemble 4e and Star Wars:SE which will lead me to completely abandon WOTC products (at least until the time third parties release alternate mechanics to replace those I dislike).
Greg_K, I understand your frustrations with the direction WOTC is going with their RPG lines. From a certain perspective they've managed to throw the baby out with the bathwater in a rush to update, repackage, and resell.
One of my personal critiques is the Wizard and magic. The Wizard is all about his books, studies, and preparations. Lacking the 4e books I don't know how much of that remains, but so far it appears that the Wizard is now more like a Sorceror in reflection of what he can do. I would have liked to see the Wizard retain his spell book in some capacity rather than forcing a pre-set grouping of abilities. Granted they provide Ritual Spell Casting where the Wizard can select between two spells, but it really isn't the same thing. So I think the mechanics missed the boat there and there are probably many others as well.
The core idea behind d20 Modern 2.0 is to establish a setting in the modern world without any of the trappings of high fantasy. Heroes are just heroes, not paragon or epic. Supplements could introduce variants that allow for the modern meets fantasy (like Urban Arcana) and allow for these things, but this isn't the focus of the Modern game.
In a Modern setting anything that goes beyond the core rules introduces the idea of Super Heroics. This could be magic, psionics, mutations, cosmic powers, and so forth.
This brings to mind a couple of ideas in this vein...
Wizards and Clerics acquire their spells and prayers through study, meditation, and preparation. The Wizard has his spell book and the Cleric has his devotions. In either case this constitutes a number of spells or prayers known to the Wizard or the Cleric. Depending on level either of these classes takes part of their day to prepare, the wizard studies and assembles his spell components, the cleric meditates and prepares his mind and body for the trials ahead. Depending on level the character is able to prepare a number of spells/prayers that are known to be used at-will (very few), per encounter (very few), or daily (most); some restrictions and rules for useage apply. The wizard must study and experiment over time to learn new spells to add to his spell book. The cleric must also study and meditate over time to expand what his devotions encompass.
Sorcery and Psionics are similar in that they reflect the innate reflexive powers of a character. For this reason both have a limited set of powers and lack the flexibility of the wizard or cleric. They make up for this in that their abilities are simply extensions of their existence and casting spells or evoking psionic abilities are equivalent to walking, eating, or breathing for these characters.
I wish this is how WOTC would have approached magic in 4e and I actually expected this, but they kept at it with the pruning shears...
But for now, I am focusing on what d20 Modern might look like with a 4e overhaul. It may not be everyone's cup-O'-tea but I'm big enough to at least entertain the idea no matter where it goes. For now I am focusing on the core game in a modern setting and shelving magic, super powers, future tech, historical, and so on (see original posts).
For combat, no live RPG is ever going to be as fast or as "realistic" as a video game. If that's what a person wants, play an online RPG - it's much better.
What differentiates a live RPG is the details. Characters with finely detailed skills, relationships between those characters and the world around them, etc. The ability to tell your GM "I want to check my little black book and hunt up a couple old girlfriends to invite to the party", or for the GM to have a character run into an old college rival, and to role-play the communication between the two of them. Minis and faster combat rules don't stop these things, but they certainly don't help them either.
While D&D moves more and more towards a traditional boardgame, I think the best part of Modern is that it's players generally (in my experience) are still concerned with Role Playing and characterization.
This may be just my gray hair talkin,
but I remember back in the day....
We played out imaginary pen, paper, & dice games with pens, papers, dice, and imagination.
The DM would describe (yes, DM as in DungeonMaster, thats what they were called... and why it is the DungeonMasterGuide and not the GameMastersGuide)... the DM would describe with vivid & horible details the abhoration coming out of the darkness. Now GMs are supposed to just plop a $18 Beholder Miniature down on the table with a "Lets fight one of these" followed by players filled with glee "Wow, cool" rather than, "OMG We run like cats on fire from whatever that thing is"
As demonstrated by the allpowerful Yogurt in the movie Spaceballs,
Merchandizing the game has taken over playing the game. You no longer play D&D, you buy D&D stuff & use it till you can buy the next tier in PowerCreep they will sell the minmaxers & mini-collectors.
2 books & 5 dice should be all you need to play a D&D game of imagination,
rather than watering it down because "Math Is Hard" (and dont forget that the HARD MATH is just "+-x/"), and despite there being a plethera of $2 - $50 painted plastic "Orc With Axe" minis out there we still say "Pennies are Axemen and Nickles are Archers, Skittles are Giant Rats, and the BottleCap is... Dave, stop eating the giant rats"
Was I going anywhere with this rant?
Oh yeah, 5.7 aint 2d8, and the McRules are McBad.
*clap clap clap* you are the freakin man, I could not have expressed this any better.
Wizards has taken our wonderful game of imagination and commercialized it by selling everything instead of allowing our minds picture the image. Kids of today have been come so lazy or dependent on things they cant even do simple math anymore with out a calculator... its sad...
Simple isn't always stupid, sometimes that's all the time that can be afforded. I don't touch online RPG's because they're actually a bigger time sink than d20 Modern or D&D ever were.
Plus, while you can hate Mini's all you want... they REALLY save time in combat, everyone knows where everything is and you don't have to redescribe the battlefield every turn.
I am wondering however, do you plan to adjust this when you have more complete information on 4e? Such as incorporating the 3 tiers or non-random hit points?
I was planning on developing a d20 Modern-ish ruleset to cover all things d20 Modern, but it occurred to me that Modern campaigns seem to vary a lot more in what is necessary than fantasy genre games.
For instance, a Survivor-Horror campaign (such as Zombie Apocalypse) really need a condition track because it simulates progressive exhaustion. But at the same time, the 4e Bloodied condition (well I guess it isn't really a condition so much as half hp rounded down) could be when a person is vulnerable to whatever.
Bloodlust: Cinanev is entirely right that miniatures speed things up because there can't be arguments about "You said A was at (x,y) not (z,w)!" Miniatures get rid of the ambiguity.
Also, watch your generalizations because they make you look like an ***. And while I do agree with you that a lot of my peers are disappointing (in college I often felt embarrassed that some of my peers got into the same school I did), I will also point out that pnp RPGs appeal to a different sort of people. And just because you don't like to use miniatures doesn't mean that those that do are newbies or any less intelligent than you.
In fact, as has been said before, the time saving aspect of miniatures when it comes to tactical situations makes them the smarter choice.
I am now waiting for my copy of 4e to arrive from Amazon and play it for a while. Once I understand how it works I plan on revisiting my previous assessment (above) as it was based entirely on 4e exerpts and Star Wars Saga and not the actual 4e material.
There are some things that I see from the exerpts that look like they are solid components of the 4e system like non-random hit points. I am not so sure about Modern using the 3 tiers like D&D only because it seriously breaks credibility in a Modern setting but it is something that I will have to look at closely.
My initial focus on looking at a 4e/Modern conversion is purely on a non-fantastical Modern setting. I feel that has to be done right before any attempt can be made to address the wider scope of the Modern genre (like zombie horror). For instance a serial killer adventure has many of the same psychological shocks that a character would face if he confronted something much more fantastic, like zombies. So the core rules would do well to describe this particular facet that a horror genre setting would heavily exploit, like sanity attacks against a character's Will Defense.
My personal take on Condition Tracks and Hit Points: Hit Points describe your character's ability to survive, when you run out of Hit Points you are no longer surviving. Condition Tracks basically do the same thing as Hit Points but without the Hit Points, a redundancy. To my mind you either use a Condition Track or use Hit Points, but don't use both. Interestingly I think a good Condition Track actually creates a better simulation of reality than Hit Points but that is also an entirely different set of mechanics.
In 4e the Bloodied condition is added when you are reduced to less than 1/2 Hit Point total. Of itself it does nothing but does allow you or other characters to take advantage of that situation if they have the ability to do so. For example a Zombie might gain some advantage against a bloodied character. In a Zombie Apocalypse the question becomes how long can a character survive before they are killed (run out of Hit Points) and become a zombie themeselves, you don't get a chance to fully rest except maybe between adventures.
For example: I think half the fun of a zombie-horror setting is that none of the protagonists has any more power than a sawed-off shotgun, a baseball bat, and their sanity (or lack thereof). As soon as you have a character with the turn-undead ability a zombie-horror setting just loses something. From what I am seeing in 4e progressive exhaustion is just a fact in Zombie Horror, your characters never get a chance to really rest, so you start with some healing surges and that's it, once you run out you're done. So as a character you have to weigh keeping your character in peak condition up front or nurse things along until you can finally get a good night's sleep, if ever.
One of my criticisms of the current d20 Modern rule system is that it spends far too much page and ink trying to shoe-horn 3e D&D into a Modern setting rather than get that setting to stand on its own. I suppose from a direction point of view that had d20 Modern been billed basically as D&D brought into a modern era with perhaps some world building like Ebberon or a Modern Forgotten Realms or some new setting this would have been highly appropriate. Instead we get a system that forces a dramatic reality shift from D&D to Modern (our world, sorta) or visa-versa (i.e. conversions of 3e characters/monsters into Modern compliance).
In retrospect I would have appreciated d20 Modern more had the core rules focused 100% on describing adventures in a Modern world. I feel that first the system should give the feel that these are things real people could actually be doing and situations they could actually be in, and that should comprise the core rules (see original posts). Then approach fantastic sub-genres with published adventures or supplemental materials. This gives a firm framework of what is real (the core rules) that you can then add the more fantastic stuff appropriate to your campaign (the supplemental materials); rather than have to sift out what you don't need, adhoc from various sources for what you do, and houserule the rest out the wazoo (the present reality).
d20 modern was never as much about an "iconic" 4 character party as DnD was.
I also see some minor issues with the setup of the "At-Will, Per Encounter and Per Day" powers and the smaller skill list and general neglect of skill play could cause some conversion issues.
Now that I have my hands on the 4e books and have started to run Keep on the Shadowfell I am starting to get a better handle on what 4e is and isn't.
1. The character sheets and character creation is just as screwy as it ever has been. There isn't room on the sheet to record all the information you need and what you do include isn't easy to reference. Finally the book isn't any help at all guiding you through how to put your character together. You either know how to do it or you don't.
I just made up my own character sheet, wrote my own character creation rules, and moved on. WotC should package the powers in a card set, that in and of itself would save a ton of headache and transcription.
2. 4e advertised a lot more customization and selectibility than what it delivered. For example a dwarf would give you various feats and powers that you could select instead of what your class offered, or you could stick with your class; a dwarf fighter would be significantly different from a human one.
eh, not so much. Non-human races are still front-loaded with extra goodies and race specific feats are like maybe 2 or 3 per race. A race power is a given, not chosen in place of a class power. At least the humans get some front-end goodies now.
3. Once I sorted out the mess into something manageable, the core mechanics are smooth. My first session only lasted an hour and included set-up, character creation (aided by my custom character sheets and creation edits), and first encounter. If we hadn't been strapped for time we would have played longer, we hated quitting. My job as DM was extremely easy and we were all able to have a lot of fun.
There are still a large number of things I want to do with 4e before I feel confident with it enough to break it open for a more detailed Modern conversion concept. However, at this point I have considered a few things.
Races
By default only humans are available. However, the mechanic is the same as found in 4e and fully supports dropping in other races if desired.
Occupations
These work like races in dnd in that they grant certain bonuses and elements to your character. You are not however stuck in your occupation and can change it any time you gain a new level. Changing occupations causes you to lose occupation bonuses, but gives you the benefits of the new occupation. An occupation requires you to meet certain pre-requisites, meaning some of the more interesting occupations may not be immediately available to your character. Occupations define your character's basic wealth status and career paths among other things.
Career Paths
You get these through your occupation. Each occupation has at least two generally defined as labor or management though others are available. As you advance in level your career path grants you additional bonuses such as additional wealth due to your professional connections and experience. If you change occupations you restart your career path, so choose a new occupation with care.
Classes
After reviewing the current d20 Modern class system it is basically a race to level 4 to get into an advanced class as soon as possible. So scrap the basic classes all-together. I haven't considered this too heavily yet, but my current thinking is to rework the 12 advanced Modern classes as the default Modern 2.0 classes, though I would probably weed that down and rework to 8 or so. Love it or hate it the controller-defender-leader-striker model is ingrained in 4e thinking, but other models are possible. However, my take is to allow the Modern classes some flexibility in how they work in these roles, maybe giving a class two roles and the player chooses which way to go. For example (given current advanced classes):
Soldier - defender/leader
Martial Artist - defender/striker
Gunslinger - striker
Infiltrator - striker
Daredevil - defender/striker
Bodyguard - defender
Field Scientist - controller/leader
Techie - controller
Field Medic - leader
Investigator - leader
Personality - controller/leader
Negotiator - controller/leader
Powers
In a rational modern setting we don't have magic. If we do it is extremely rare and not part of anyone's everday lives. Instead we are witness to the powers of science and socialism triumphant over quaint notions of magic and superstition. Modern powers reflect this, so would use the following (as a start):
Martial - physical prowess
Science - knowledge and application
Social - interpersonal relationships
Powers give actions that the character can perform. For instance a Negotiator might use the Social Power and have an ability called "Talk-down" where he can cause an opponent to stop fighting and pay attention to the Negotiator instead, this is a psychological effect that effectively stuns the target and can be sustained. A Gunslinger might be able to attack multiple opponents or use his weapon to make opportunity attacks. A Techie can construct various devices, chemicals, explosives, and so forth to use in encounters like a Wizard with his spells. Powers are that something extra, anyone can use a gun to make a standard ranged attack, but in the hands of a Gunslinger a gun can be used to do so many more things.
Tiers
At first blush I didn't think the 4e tiers would translate to Modern, but then I started thinking. In dnd you face cosmic threats almost from first level even though your adventuring career probably never goes more than 100 miles from where you start in the world. In a modern setting change gods to world leaders and cosmic threats to global threats and you end up with a very similar picture. So I think the tiers can still work, but with some adjustment to scale. Not very well thought out, but my first take:
Heroic - levels 1-10 - basic hero
Prestigious - levels 11-20 - specialized hero, prestige roles for class
Super - levels 21-30 - hero out to save the world, super goal
Character Creation
Given the headache of creating my first character in 4e I would include a step-by-step character creation chapter and an extremely clear and easy to use/reference character sheet. I would re-write powers into a much more portable format for transcription to the character sheet with the relevant information, like how spells in 3e often could be summarized in a single line.
Right now these are my current impressions. As soon as I start actually trying to crunch something these ideas could quickly change.
I always liked the idea of classes based off of Ability scores. It's mostly just a change in concept, since your Advanced Class was a stronger definer than your basic one and you could shoe horn some very difficult concepts into the 6 Basic Classes before extrapolating your advanced class from those setups.
Striker-Defender-Leader-Controller for dnd but I always called it the Fighter-Thief-Cleric-Mage group
The thing is, it was really Striker/Defender -Skillmonkey - Healer - Controller (mage at early levels was trickbag, at later levels uberstriker)
The rogue wasn't brought along to deal massive damage to the big baddies, he was there to pick the locks, detect the traps, etc. Of course, most DMs just thew in monsters and few traps/secret doors etc. (partly due to there being a nice big book of monsters and no book of traps) so the theif didn't do much.
I think the skillmonkey really comes to his own in modern settings, helped by police and firearms. For starters invade the dungeon, no worry about the vampire calling up the king and demanding he send some knights down to stop you, so you could do combat all the time. In modern, skillmonkeys to overcome obstacles really pays off.
With firearms being so deadly it is much easier for the non-combat specialists to contribute. In the older system, the non-combat types were gimped by fewer attacks, less ability to hit, and doing less damage when they did. In modern, they just miss more but when they hit they do just as much damage. Not true for cleric with his hammer vs barbarian with his greataxe.
Having a pure defender class also is hampered by firearms, hence a striker with defender tendancies (higher hitpoints). I mean, the pure defender is all about attracting attention so they can absorb/mitigate the damage rather than have it hit the squishies. That doesn't work with firearms. Armor, even modern ballistic armor, doesn't stand up to true rifles well at all. So a class whose goal is to jump into the middle of the hallway and yell "hey shoot at me instead!" just doesn't work.
No, modern needs it's own mix.
This did get me thinking about 'fireteams'
Team Leader, M249 gunner (machinegun) Genedier (grenade launcher) Rifleman (radio and often rearguard)
You have
Leader, Striker, Controller, and ???
NatanaX
I agree with you as I am still VERY partial to using the 6 basic classes (Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, Charismatic) and giving each more advanced paths to advance through. But I am also keen to investigate a less generic class path as well. I have my preference but I always like to explore first.
ShadeOfDeciet
I think that the 4e concept pretty much directs three tiers of advancement. I understand where you are coming from with shorter tiers. One of the aspects of d20 Modern is that you could throw together a healthy mix of classes to get the character concept you wanted; the drawback is that you could end up level 6 with a +1 BAB, no decent skill ranks, and half the feats and seriously nerfed compared to someone who focused on only one class. As 4e largely redefines the genre I think that a level 5 comparison to most heroes of history is probably no longer valid. Level 1-10 for a normal local hero, level 11-20 for a national hero, and level 21+ for a legendary hero is probably now the standard. I do think that Modern classes should grant some flexibility in how a character advances and focuses more so than what dnd 4e offers. Part of the Modern experience is that you can very much reinvent yourself. In a dnd world your class is also your occupation, in a modern world your class is your strategy for approaching life and your occupation is how you do it.
akodo
You have some great inputs on Modern team roles. I'm not ready to completely give up on the "Defender" concept yet as I can come up with three ways that they remain and are highly effective. "Skillmonkey" is also a great idea for a Modern role since in a modern setting it isn't about magic and divinity it is about technology and science. Modern equipment and features are very detailed and intricate when compared to the technology available in a medieval fantasy setting and requires characters able to manipulate and use these features.
You did get me thinking about the possibility of character class(s) that are able to call on outside help like a sniper (striker attack), information contact (knowledge), support team (pro-PC minions under calling character control), or any number of effects caused by someone else on the character's side but outside the encounter.
Finally I think the "Defender" type class(s) can work in modern for at least the following reasons.
1 - Use of firearms is usually a controlled situation, normally it is law-enforcement or military that get to use them. Civilians will pretty much get in trouble even with a license to carry. That means in a lot of cases using a gun just isn't an option and it comes down to fists and bricks. Characters who use guns a lot will go through the following possibilities. First use, character will probably get away with it. Second use, authorities are now looking for a gunman murderer, you might get caught. Three or more uses, pretty high probability that authorities are actively searching for you and any further use of your weapon will likely draw their attention. Gun users will likely need a fleet of lawyers, organized crime contacts, or extreme luck not to land in jail or get the death penalty for multiple homicides regardless of justification. Melee dust-ups are less prone to be actively noticed. "Defenders" still have a place.
2 - A defender that is a firearm's specialist that is able to draw hostile attention his way while simultaneously using cover to great effect. The Soldier is an example of a class that could use firearms to lay down suppression fire, draw attention away from allies, and create diversions. The downside is that all of this gets the enemy to focus their attacks and movement towards him, the upside is this gives his allies more free room to maneuver and launch attacks rather than getting shot at. Remember firearms combat is at range so the high hit points of a defender reflect not that they survive getting shot a ton of times (unrealistic), but that a ton of shots are failing to kill him (realistic).
3 - Bodyguards are trained to litterly take a bullet for the person they protect. Here is a potential class that actively seeks to get between the bullets and the rest of the party. It is a mix of boldness and intimidation that allows the bodyguard to survive and keep acting, his best defense is to confuse and terrify the enemy causing them to miss more than they hit even though he is standing right in front of them. He survives because he either routes the opposition or calmly takes them down one by one while they are acting in supreme panic mode. The bodyguard survives conditions and situations that no lesser man could.
cool_dude1010
Glad you are loving all of this.
1 - Use of firearms is usually a controlled situation, normally it is law-enforcement or military that get to use them. Civilians will pretty much get in trouble even with a license to carry. That means in a lot of cases using a gun just isn't an option and it comes down to fists and bricks. Characters who use guns a lot will go through the following possibilities. First use, character will probably get away with it. Second use, authorities are now looking for a gunman murderer, you might get caught. Three or more uses, pretty high probability that authorities are actively searching for you and any further use of your weapon will likely draw their attention. Gun users will likely need a fleet of lawyers, organized crime contacts, or extreme luck not to land in jail or get the death penalty for multiple homicides regardless of justification. Melee dust-ups are less prone to be actively noticed. "Defenders" still have a place.
#1 doesn't hold water. For starters, what you say is true for civilians is also true for law enforcement and military. For a cop, if you shoot someone, you are automatically on administrative leave while it is being invesigated. Lethal force uses are ALWAYS investigated. Lets say you are exhonorated, now you shoot someone a year later, they are gonig to look longer and harder at that cop, and even if it is termed justified, that cop will probably be riding a chair for the rest of his carreer. Same with soldiers, except in an outright war. Of course, if there is an outright war, then civilians in the roll of independant contractors or partisains are using firearms on a regular basis right along with everyone else.
Further, rule 1 is survive. If there is a deadly fight with fists and bricks, bats, pool cues, and switchblades, hey, you are going to worry more about not dying than legal ramifications, so if you have a gun, your life is in danger, you use it to end the threat. Now, the deal is criminals carrying guns is illegal, so often they don't carry them in case they run into some cops and end up getting jammed up over it. So for the criminals, no guns present, yea, they'd go for bricks and pool cues. Noncriminals, they can carry and not worry about it.
Basically if there is ANY gunplay you are stepping into the realm of not very realistic, and that is fine. So then we get to civilans shooting zombies does not illicit a police response, because the police are buzy shooting zombies too, or the citizen is shooting vampires, or on some sort of private crusade against some evil sect, and is operating in the shadows, or heck is just doing it A-team style.
2 - A defender that is a firearm's specialist that is able to draw hostile attention his way while simultaneously using cover to great effect. The Soldier is an example of a class that could use firearms to lay down suppression fire, draw attention away from allies, and create diversions. The downside is that all of this gets the enemy to focus their attacks and movement towards him, the upside is this gives his allies more free room to maneuver and launch attacks rather than getting shot at. Remember firearms combat is at range so the high hit points of a defender reflect not that they survive getting shot a ton of times (unrealistic), but that a ton of shots are failing to kill him (realistic).
sorry, I don't buy #2 either. There is NO roll that is 'hey shoot at me instead' except with the possible exception of the bodyguard roll. Supressive fire isn't about drawing attention to yourself, it is about scaring the **** out of whoever is close to where you are shooting, so they duck and cover and cannot shoot back at you. The 'diversion' is a 'diversion' it is a tactical maneuver, not a combat roll.
3 - Bodyguards are trained to litterly take a bullet for the person they protect. Here is a potential class that actively seeks to get between the bullets and the rest of the party. It is a mix of boldness and intimidation that allows the bodyguard to survive and keep acting, his best defense is to confuse and terrify the enemy causing them to miss more than they hit even though he is standing right in front of them. He survives because he either routes the opposition or calmly takes them down one by one while they are acting in supreme panic mode. The bodyguard survives conditions and situations that no lesser man could.
#3 you are dealing with two seperate rolls here Bodyguard and Security Detail. For starters, yes bodyguard is a guy who is willing to take a bullet for whoever he is protecting. However, this isn't anything to do with him being more able to survive this damage, this is about him being supremely committed to his job. That would be a roll-playing angle, not a combat roll angle. Besides, the bodyguard gets between the bullet and his primary ONCE...and then he is out, so you have multiple bodyguards. You don't have multiple 'protectees' and one bodyguard. That is why bodyguard is called bodyguard, his job is to have his body sheild the protectee. He isn't off fighting, he is sheilding. Take a look at the Ronald Reagan shooting videos, certian Secret Service members were tasked with bodyguard, others with security. The bodyguard designated ones didn't think once about distracting or engaging or intimidating the threat, they simply threw their bodies on the presidents. People a few paces away who were tasked as security they were the ones who drew and engaged the threat.
You talk about boldness and intimidation that allows a bodyguard to do what he must, well that's charisma and bluff, not really a defender's core attributes and skill sets. Besides, the confuse and terrify is applied FIRST to convince them not to attack. There is no 'stand here, right in front of them, and terrify them into missing'
He survives because he either routes the opposition or calmly takes them down one by one
Umm, no routing of the opposition. Any routing is done beforehand by the security detail, to move potential threats away. The routing done by the bodyguards is to remove the 'protectee' from the threat. This is more of a controller class then I guess, as that is the class that is about shifting allies. The other angle 'take them out one by one' that is all striker. It is more of a rollplay concern that a character decides to dwell more on his damage output so he can neutralize the attackers as quickly as possible, rather than heavy armor and high hitpoints, because his goal isn't to survive, his death is acceptable, his goal is to deal massive damage fast to eliminate the threat. If anything, this lines up best with a two weapon wielding ranger using all the new shifty abilities in 4e to quickly dispatch enemy then move onto another one.
Look, the only places I see defender sticking around is in places with absolutely no firearms, but then it it really 'modern' I guess you could go for a jail setting, then the jailgang would have leaders and controllers, strikers would be the guys with the shivs, defenders the real big guys who can physically block access
What I am hearing you say is that basically Modern classes can only be gun-users of some kind and no other strategy is remotely valid, has a place, or hope for success.
There is no place for a stealthy character who 1) has no gun or 2) has run out of bullets to hide, jump out, beat a guy down, steal steal his gun and keep going.
There is no place for a Tough character that can basically just annoy the hell out of opponents because "He just won't die!"
There is no place for a Martial Arts Master to unleash in a burst of speed and fury a series of unarmed attacks faster than his armed opponents can react to.
Only gun-user classes like single-shot-kill-Snake, guns-a-blazin'-Betty, machine-gun-Willie, and pistol-Peet need apply.
I guess we are working from radically different assumptions on basic mechanics like Hit Points and roles where a gun is not the point of the class.
Yes, guns should be absolutely dangerous and characters who don't have them should be at a distinct disadvantage regardless of the ability of the gun user. God may have made men equal but it took the invention of the gun to guarantee it.
But I still think there is a place for classes that can excell without a gun, especially for those times when you run out of bullets and that gun just becomes a fancy club, or guns just aren't available or an option. In which case there should be a vast advantage to being bigger, stronger, and tougher than the next guy.
I suppose to ramp up reality and to mitigate a Defender type's advantage in hit points guns could deal vastly superior damage to the current model. For starters a gun could deal 2d20 damage for even the lightest weapons. That would mean a gun user could drop most opponents with one or two shots just with a basic attack. Amp that up with feats of gun use, and with the same weapon, a dedicated gunslinger might inflict 6d20 or more damage with a single shot. In 4e a level 1 character will have 20-35 hit points, by level 10 will gain an additional 40-70 + 10x Con modifier (+60 on the outside). So a level 10 Defender might have 165 hp on the outside, but up against a guy with a gun he still isn't going to last long. Conversely a melee fighter is going to own anyone he can get his mitts on. I think the game mechanics should be able to support that.
Ultimately the idea is the game. If you want to have fun and work with a more cinamatic feel go with Hit Points and the implications that provides. If you want to go for a more gritty and realistic game use a Condition Track and damage locations, and skip the Hit Points all together.
I can conceive of some better game models than the d20 system to model real life but none of them include classes, levels, or hit points which are all staples of the d20 system. My amusement here is to speculate on what a d20 Modern game would look like using the dnd 4e approach. I think that if you were so inclined you should be able to drop DnD encounters into a Modern situation without conversion (or visa-versa). The current Modern model requires conversions between the two, and for one campaign I wanted to run this presented serious problems when I didn't do that.
In the 4e Model the basic premis is the following:
Controller
The guy who locks down an area and opponents either by issuing effects or area damage. He can set field conditions making him an important figure to channel where the enemy is going and doing.
A Controller is weak and easily defeated meaning his best results are when paired with a character(s) who can protect him.
Defender
The guy who protects his allies by getting between them and the enemy or by getting the enemy to focus their attention on him. He has abilities to keep himself going when any other character would have dropped from their injuries and the capacity to lock down multiple opponents by blocking their movement either through physical presence or threat.
A Defender is tough and takes a lot of punishment but only delivers average attacks meaning his best results are when paired with allies that can funnel enemies to him or can dish out extreme damage.
Leader
The guy who directs and bolsters his allies by motivating them, granting bonuses, and healing them mind and body. He has abilities that keep his allies going and performing better than if he wasn't there; and the capacity to overcome the strategies employed by his adversaries.
A Leader isn't as tough as a Defender and can only deliver average attacks meaning his best results are when paired with allies who can do these things better.
Striker
The guy who deals excessive amounts of damage to one or two foes and move unhindered about the field. He keeps the damage going and may have the ability to launch multiple attacks.
A Striker is as tough as a Leader and lacks the stand up capacity of a Defender meaning his best results are when he has allies that provide him opportunities to strike from advantageous positions.
As I said earlier I also think that a Modern class should have some flexibility allowing for it to draw elements from at least two of these roles or focus on one. Perhaps granting a primary role with an option to include secondary elements from a different one. For example, a Soldier who might basically be a Defender but has Controller and Leader elements available to choose from as well.
Finally, Akodo, I also think you have very valid points concerning Modern realities and they should be part of the model (Like guns being an absolute equalizer).
NatanaX
I think the 4 roles are just that, roles. I think for classes there needs to be a little something more. For instance I regard playing a Defender as meh, but playing a Soldier gets my imagination going. Now the real question is, what kind of classes would be most appropriate?
The condition track loosely incorporates concepts from DnD 4e, but very loosely. Although more complicated it should otherwise successfully replace Hit Points as a game mechanic for d20 Modern or other d20 based games without too many other adjustments; though I did write it with Modern in mind. With further work this could become the core mechanic for an abberant d20 system.
Improvements in survival come from experience through level bonuses and improvements to ability scores over time rather than from ladeling on more Hit Points. The idea is that when you take a hit you take a hit and you are going to go down. Only those with high Fortitudes or significant protections are able to take hits and last for any length of time.
Condition Track
Start at Normal condition, for living creatures when you take damage subtract this from your current condition level; for nonliving objects when it takes damage always subtract from 5, the worse of the result or current condition level is the objects condition. Apply the general modifier to attack rolls, all defenses, initiative, speed, and all skill checks. Increased levels of injury make a target more vulnerable to future attacks.
5 - Normal
4 - Injured = -1 general modifier
3 - Wounded = -2 general modifier
2 - Crippled = -4 general modifier
1 - Critical = -8 general modifier
0 - Dead
Hit Locations
When making an attack roll that can deal direct damage determine by how much you meet or exceed the target value and consult the following:
+ (0-4) - Body = normal damage
+ (5-9) - Mobility = normal damage, reduce speed by half, when reduced to 0 speed grant combat advantage to all enemies
+ (10-14) - Action = normal damage, lose 1 action in following order: Minor - Move - Standard
+ (15-19) - Vitals = normal damage, gain Severe Injury (see below)
+ (20+) - Head = maximum damage, dazed until start of next turn.
Natural 20 - Critical Hit = maximum + critical damage; choose a hit location or break, when selecting Vitals you may also choose which vital is affected. When you choose break you shatter bones or material, these severe injuries take 4 times as long to heal/repair.
Note: Some abilities may also allow you to target specific Hit Locations as well.
Living Creatures
Defined as any creature that has a constitution score such as people and animals. Plants are technically living things and can heal naturally, however, plants are otherwise treated as objects. Living creatures recover from their wounds through natural healing, a process that takes days or weeks. They are subject to pain and even small actually nonthreatening injuries can incapacitate, however, a living creature also has the capacity to push through their pain and continue acting so long as they are alive. When a living creature is reduced to Death (0) it is incapable of recovering from its wounds and remains dead.
* Damage adds, each time character takes damage they are reduced from their current track level.
* Unstabilized damage forces saving throw, failure moves character to next level on condition track.
* Surge is possible, injured (4) character can return to normal (5), wounded (3) or worse can ignore penalties until end of next turn.
* Too tough to die, when damaged may spend 1 action point to negate 1 damage dealt, cannot be reduced below Critical (1).
* Natural healing, condition recovers over time requiring 2 days rest per level with medical care to recover to the next level.
* Severe Injuries, compare to hit result:
19 - Heart = Heart failure, damage cannot be stablized without medical care.
18 - Artery = Bleed out, unstabilized damage automatically fails saving throws.
17 - Lung = Suffocation, unstabilized damage causes loss of Move action, cannot be stabilized without medical care.
16 - Guts = Toxic shock, damage cannot be stabilized without medical care, first aide grants success on next saving throw.
15 - Shock = Blood loss, unstabilized damage causes use of a surge to fail.
Objects
Defined as any figure that does not have a constitution score and can include things like plants, rocks, weapons, vehicles, robots, etc... Objects cannot recover on their own and can only improve their condition when repaired, a process that can take hours or days. The condition of an object is defined by actual damage to its structure and function so a series of glancing inneffective blows won't be able to inflict more damage than the first. When an object is reduced to 0 condition (death) it is destroyed and is beyond repair, though its parts can be salvaged for use in repairing/making other objects.
* Damage does not add, most damage sustained defines condition level, less/equal damage to track does not advance track.
* Unstabilized damage does not "bleed", object doesn't make saving throws to determine if it gets worse.
* Surge is not possible, damaged object cannot return to normal or ignore penalties without repair.
* Neat trick, a character in control of an object can spend 1 action point to negate 1 damage dealt, can still be destroyed (0).
* Repairable, condition can be recovered to next level requiring 2 hours of repair per level of damage, destroyed objects cannot be repaired but can be salvaged.
* Severe Injuries (complex objects only), compare to hit result:
19 - Controller = Stun object until end of next turn, deal damage to operator if physically present on/in/with object.
18 - Secondary Element = Lose next Standard action, deal damage to passenger(s) if physically present on/in/with object.
17 - Engine = Lose Move action until repaired, repair requires 10 hours, next engine hit destroys engine - shut down object.
16 - Drive = Lose Move action until end of next turn, each additional drive hit reduce speed by 1/4, repair requires 5 hours to regain each 1/4 speed lost, at 0 speed destroy drive - object cannot move or take move actions.
15 - Structure = If damage is dealt, at a minimum reduce object condition one level on the Condition Track.
Fortitude Defense
10 + better of Strength or Constitution modifiers + 1/2 level + additional Fortitude modifiers
Fortitude Defense represents a figure's ability to withstand physical injury and continue functioning. Those with high Fortitude Defenses can survive effects that would kill or seriously injure those with lower scores.
* When damage is dealt subtract the target Fortitude Defense before applying damage; if this result would be 0 or less then deal a minimum of 1 damage, a hit is a hit.
* Effects that target Fortitude like poisons or subdual attacks like grappling can only take effect if the attack roll exceeds the Fortitude Defense score, if this is successful then the effect can happen. Fortitude attacks usually only deal damage as a secondary or ongoing effect rather than direct damage.
Reflex Defense
10 + better of Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers + 1/2 level + additional Reflex modifiers
Reflex Defense represents a figure's ability to avoid being hit. Those with high Reflex Defenses can readily avoid attacks while those with lower scores are more easily struck.
* Most attacks that deal direct damage target Reflex Defense. When an attack roll is made subtract Reflex Defense from its result, if the result is 0 or more then it is a hit, if it is -1 or less then the attack misses. On a positive result of 0 or more consult hit location to determine what part of the figure was struck by the attack and deal damage.
Will Defense
10 + better of Wisdom or Dexterity modifiers + 1/2 level + additional Will modifiers
Will Defense represents a figures ability to control their own mind and resist those things that would affect it. Those with high Will Defenses are better in control of themselves and are not easily confused or redirected while those with lower scores are much more susceptable to suggestion.
* Most attacks that affect the concentration or mental stability of a figure target Will Defense and only take effect if the attack roll exceeds this score. Most Will attacks only inflict an effect on the character and do no real damage.
Armor
Armor helps protect a character from injury by increasing Fortitude or Reflex defenses or both as an additional modifier. Some advanced or heavy armor may also grant some Damage Reduction and/or Hardness as well.
* Fortitude Defense - All armor grants some benefit to Fortitude Defense and any character wearing armor gains this bonus regardless of training. Light armor grants low or no bonus, Medium armor grants a moderate amount, and Heavy armor grants a high Fortitude Defense bonus.
* Reflex Defense - Characters can only gain the Reflex Defense bonus when they are trained in the use of the armor. Light and Medium armor adds this directly as an additional Reflex Defense modifier. Heavy armor applies the greater of a character's Dexterity, Intelligence, or Armor modifier to Reflex Defense instead.
* Damage Reduction - Specialty armor that grants damage reduction against a single source of damage, like ballistics armor that also grants a DR of 5 versus ballistic damage.
* Hardness - Especially heavy armor may provide a level of hardness for additional protection, this usually makes the armor very heavy, bulky, and hindersome to movement.
* Shields often provide excelent Reflex Defense and Hardness and may provide for Damage Reduction, but add little to a character's Fortitude Defense.
Damage Reduction
When damage is dealt, subtract an objects damage reduction before applying the damage. This is done before applying hardness or Fortitude Defense.
Damage Vulnerability
Some objects, armor, or creatures may be especially vulnerable to a certain source of damage, in this case add the vulnerability modifier to damage dealt before applying hardness or Fortitude Defense.
Hardness
When damage is dealt it must exceed an object's hardness in order to inflict damage. This is done after applying damage reduction but before Fortitude Defense.
Second Wind
Able to do this once per encounter to activate a healing Surge to either recover from Injured to Normal condition or to ignore condition modifiers until the end of your next turn. Objects cannot gain a second wind.
Surge (healing)
A surge doesn't heal you, instead you shrug off the effects of Injuries (4) or ignore your Wounds (3 or less) for a time. Injuries are still there and need to be healed normally, but the nature of a minor injury is usually not something that affects your physical ability to perform. By ignoring the pain and psychological impact of the trauma you are able to act normally. You may spend a Surge with a Second Wind, during a Short Rest, or when some other effect (power) allows you to use it. When spending a Surge during a Short Rest when Wounded (3) or worse at the start of your next Encounter you ignore the negative effects of your condition until the end of your first turn, you will then be able to use Second Wind normally. You gain a number of Surges to use per day equal to your class Surges + Constitution modifier. Objects do not gain Surges.
Use Action Point: Too Tough to Die
When damaged you may spend at that momement 1 action point to negate 1 damage dealt (even to the extent of taking no damage), you cannot be reduced below Critical (4) condition regardless of the amount of damage dealt. Normally you are only able to expend 1 Action Point per Encounter. This represents getting lucky, moving just right at the last possible moment, or some other quirk of circumstance that allows you to survive or even avoid real injury when you otherwise would.
Use Action Point: Neat Trick
When you are in control of an object like a vehicle or some device you can spend 1 action point to negate 1 damage dealt to that object (even to the extent of taking no damage), even after this it is still possible for the object to be Destroyed (0) if enough damage is dealt. Normally you are only able to expend 1 Action Point per Encounter. This represents getting lucky, making the right move at the right time, or some other quirk of circumstance that allows you to save the object in your control when an attack would otherwise do significant harm.
Unstable
Any time you take damage you become unstable, this represents bearing a wound that is bleeding out or causing serious discomfort. While unstable, at the end of each of your turns you must make a Saving Throw, succeed and nothing happens, fail and you take 1 damage, reducing your level on the Condition Track. In most cases the successful use of First Aid or some other healing effect stabilizes your condition removing the ongoing Saving Throws. Outside of an encounter you make an Unstable check every time you rest. If you have a Severe Injury that is still unstable, when you rest you die. While unstable you gain no benefit from resting and you cannot heal.
First Aid
This is a quick act of medical attention that slaps a bandage on a wound, sets a broken bone, or delivers a shot of pain killers. First Aid is something that can be done on your turn for yourself or others. There is some chance of failing to get it right so you must make a successful Treat Injury (Healing) check with a DC of 20 and you take the target's Condition modifier as a penalty to this check. A success removes the unstable status from the target, failure means you didn't do the right thing and the target remains unstable. You cannot provide First Aid to an object and an object cannot become Unstable. First Aid by itself does not trigger a Surge, but some abilities may allow for this when First Aid is performed.
Medical Care
This is a deliberate act of medical attention that can take several minutes or even hours to complete as a discrete proceedure, or days when acting to help a character recover from their wounds. As a discrete proceedure to address Severe wounds there is a chance of failure so you must make a successful Treat Injury (Healing) check with a DC of 20, however, because you have time to work you do not take the target's Condition modifier as a penalty to this check. A success removes the unstable status from the target allowing them to survive (hopefully). The time it takes to administer medical care depends on the Severe Injury being treated or the severity of the character's condition they are recovering from. Long term care is assumed to always be successful.
One of the things I dislike the most about 4e is the lack of Multiclassing, and building characters from the 6 base classes was one of my favorite things about modern (my group always started at Level 6, so it wasn't a "race to level 4" for us).
I don't really like the idea of playing "just a gunslinger" or "just a soldier" as I've always been more interested in starting with a concept first and then making my class choice(s) fit that concept. This is something that 4e has taken away from me that has made me very aprehensive towards the system.
The initial use of the advanced classes as 2.0 base classes was as a placeholder. Some of my initial attempts to work the 6 base classes into a 2.0 frame were drastically falling flat. I could justify Strong, Fast, and Smart pretty easily; but Tough, Dedicated, and Charismatic either just didn't have the stuff or were redundant to the previous 3. I am also having a hard time justifying many of the advanced classes as well without significantly reworking them into something completely different concept wise.
I very much want flexibility built into the class design, but what I am seeing is that 2.0 will require mostly new classes to fit within the 4e frame and not end up completely creating a new system to shoehorn in the existing ones.
So far my concept notes look like this for class considerations:
* Design should fit within 4e parameters without conversion. Should be able to drop DnD material into a Modern setting or visa-versa. For example you could play out a 4e Ravenloft adventure either as a DnD or a Modern adventure as is.
* Class fills basic role (Controller, Defender, Leader, Striker, others???)
* Class has secondary options from one or two other roles, like a Defender that can include some Leader qualities.
* I want to at least consider 10-12 classes and keep the 6-8 best/strongest ones.
* Martial is definately one power source, I want to include Science as another, and something to do with social or psychology as a third.
* NO MAGIC! for the core concept. In supplements or settings this is fine, but not in the core.
* Occupation provides character income, skill bonuses, skill choices, and other potential occupation bonuses. Somewhat akin to DnD Races, only you can change your occupation any time you level up. You gain added bonuses (like wealth for example) for sticking with an occupation as many of these bonuses are lost/reset when you change occupations. Occupation bonuses represent professional advantages, licenses, contacts, and so forth that are no longer effective when you enter a different occupation. Occupations, especially ones that provide significant bonuses, require prerequisites to be met by the character in the form of chosen Feats, trained Skills, and potentially ability scores.
Levels 1-10: Heroic
Class provides basic structure and strategy for character. Heavily influenced by choice of Occupation. Fairly maleable in that character can explore different focus opportunities from class, and Occupation can further enhance these choices.
Levels 11-20: Prestigious (aka Paragon path)
Class has several prestige options that maximize the areas where a character could focus their class attentions. Prestigious class features focus a character and make them VERY effective in their chosen concept(s).
Levels 21-30: Super (aka Epic destiny)
Character is able to transend class by becoming a Super chararacter. This doesn't grant Super Powers (a different mechanic/supplement) but does support the idea of a Super Spy, Super Scientist, Super Soldier, etc... As a Super character you have a Super goal, the completion of which effectively ends your character's adventuring career but at the same time can "Save the World". Character could end being elected President, founding a multi-billion dollar Tech firm, or some other noteable achievement. The "Retired" character could then become a significant shaping force for a new set of heroes.
Back to Modern 2.0 discussion...
Akodo,
What I am hearing you say is that basically Modern classes can only be gun-users of some kind and no other strategy is remotely valid, has a place, or hope for success.
There is no place for a stealthy character who 1) has no gun or 2) has run out of bullets to hide, jump out, beat a guy down, steal steal his gun and keep going.
There is no place for a Tough character that can basically just annoy the hell out of opponents because "He just won't die!"
There is no place for a Martial Arts Master to unleash in a burst of speed and fury a series of unarmed attacks faster than his armed opponents can react to.
Only gun-user classes like single-shot-kill-Snake, guns-a-blazin'-Betty, machine-gun-Willie, and pistol-Peet need apply.
you really have to be careful putting words in people's mouths.
First, with the introduction of firearms, it should drive characters to NOT engage in combat. A group of adventurers who are good at other things is ultimately going to be more successful than a group of adventurers all kitted out for combat.
Yes, there is a place for a stealth guy, but he isn't going to be as good in combat as the guy slinging lead. Once the fight starts, the stealthy guy probably has a better chance than most of living through it, excaping, or possibly using a knife or club or something to disable one, and take his firearm. Modern settings, the adventurers need to learn that in many cases, the best option is to flee. How often do you have chase scenes rather than fight scenes?
Yes, there is no place for a tough guy who just won't die...unless he is some sort of zombie and even then. In our current modern era, the damage vs protection balance is just terribly one sided, biased toward damage. The only way to have a true defender is to step away from the current modern era. Step up 50 years into the future and declare that firearms haven't changed much, but bodyarmor has, or that cyborg parts are now available, or create an alternate setting where firearms never got into the hands of the public, or like I suggested before, prison, or some other reason to stick to melee combat. The only two real rolls of defenders in the modern world are cannonfodder, where it's really a defender as a group not an individual, and an armored personell carrier.
And yes, for a martial arts fighting in a gunfight, you are going to need some sort of magic, sci-fi augmentaion, or extreme level disparity for it to make any sense. However fast individual X can learn to punch, if individual X had put the same amount of time into speed shooting he'd be able to shoot 10 times.
If you want a martial artist, great, but that is like having a computer hacker or a disguise artist, it is another tool used to get past obscacles so a gunfight doesn't start in the first place. This is also the best realm for magic. Magic missle doesn't really stack up well against a Mac-10, but fleeing and being able to cast an illusion, turn invisible, fly, levitate, cast grease, cast web, hold portal, whatever, can turn a dead end into an escape that leaves the persuiers scratching their heads.
I think in a modern world it is even more important to be able to excell without guns. Heck any rube given a rifle might get that lucky shot that takes your lvl 7 guy from hero to corpse in an eyeblink, so the key is on having skills where combat is AVOIDED
That is what I see as the big breakdown of 4E vs modern.
#1 the defender roll just doesn't apply with the ability of modern machines to dish out such serious damage and totally ignore armor
#2 4E's biggest rules drive was what you could do IN combat. In modern that just doesn't make sense for 2 big reasons A. Combat is simply too deadly for it to ever be a good solution for the adventurers to take B. Even if you live, in a modern world, 99% of the population resides in a place where leaving dead bodies is going to cause huge alarm. You just can't kill the goblin ambushers, rifle through their pockets and walk off any more.
There may be settings where you can remove guns, and hence change A, but then is it still fundimentally 'modern'? Enough for a whole rules system and not a encounter module? (i.e. jail) There may be settings where you can remove B, but again, is it then still fundimentally 'modern'? Enough for a whole rules system and not an encounter module? (i.e. out in the wilderness for a weekend of hiking when you stumble upon a group of terrorists)
you really have to be careful putting words in people's mouths.
Sorry, just venting.
I understand that everyone has a point in fiction where suspension of disbelief becomes broken. This is true in d20 Modern, D&D, and pretty much any other game system out there.
For the sake of this thread I am looking at the impact that 4e would have on a future itteration of Modern. Within that frame of reference there are going to be those things that work, those things that stretch credibility, and those things that completely break suspension of disbelief.
As this thread is entirely speculative I invite all to keep an open mind. If there is something you see that breaks suspension of disbelief do identify it, and then also please offer how the mechanics might support re-establishing it.
For example, in the current itteration of d20 Modern it utilizes the Massive Damage Threshold to model the random and highly lethal nature of modern combat. Within this model it becomes possible that a level 20 Badass could get himself killed by a level 1 Noob with a gun.
So in a 4e mechanic there might be a similar feature that allows for a Defender type to work, but all his hit points and defenses could come to naught when a bullet has his name on it.
If MDT were ported over as is then any time a character took a hit that dealt more damage than his Constitution Score he would have to make a Saving Throw, fail and be dropped to -1 Hit Points (dying) automatically. As 4e Saving Throws are now roll d20 and get 10 or higher you would have roughly a 50/50 chance of not getting insta-dropped by a bullet that hits you square on (i.e. exceeds your MDT). I am sure there may be a better mechanic than this but I haven't heavily considered it yet.
MDT is one possible mechanic that permits 1) a Defender to work and 2) gives every expectation that in a gun-fight that same Defender can go down just as easily as anyone else. What other model might capture a feel for Modern realism better?
Take a non-firearms example. You had the westerns where the cowboys would chase the train (this normally happened after it came around a bend after slowing, or after leaving a town, and was still picking up speed) Okay, no problem.
But occasionally you still see in some over the top movies or TV shows where a guy jumps on a horse and rides down a motorcycle. No, not gonna happen...not even when the horse gets to shortcut across some grass.
But we get some DM who sees it, and then he is trying to balance horses, so that for variety some characters can choose them rather than combustion engines, and they should be equal, so he cooks up some rules for really really fast horses, and plops em into modern. I'd object strenously. I'd stress that modern vehicles are all combustion engines, and no other transport type is remotely valid, has a place, or a hope for success, at least not horses and hot air ballons. Yes, some people in modern do them for recreation, but that is just fluff don't expect to be equal to the guy who has skill in motorcycle driving. Yes, you could go cyborg and build a faster horse, but that is no longer modern. Yes you could go post-big disaster, like the show Jericho, where gas is extremely rare and valuable, so a faster mode than walking is a great advantage, but ataing, that is no longer modern.
Some jobs translated over to modern. Stables became the Garage. Some jobs didn't, or they were so altered to be unrecognizable, or totally replaced by equipment. (horses became the basis for our horsepower system...the serf who hauled water to the castle all day was replaced by running water/plumbing)
Defenders didn't survive, at least not on a personal combat level. They are still around in our armies in the forms of APC (but even those are being replaced by 'infantry fighting vehicles) in our airforce we have Prowlers whose job it is to fly with the bombers and/or fighters, and jam surface-to-air missle defenses.
The only thing I can think of for defender in personal combat is the use of smoke grenades and tear gas grenades, distraction with remote controlled devices, etc.
So the defender is still around, he is just carried in a satchel, his pin is pulled, and he is tossed out.
Anyways, best of luck with your conversion
A character’s class identifies their role, hit points, powers, and special class features.
A character’s occupation identifies their training and key adjustment bonuses.
Obviously this means that certain classes and occupations are meant to go together. Combat focused classes will likely work best when paired with combat focused occupations like the military or law enforcement. However, this doesn’t restrict characters from choosing these class/occupation combinations. For instance you could have a Martial Artist (class?) that works a white collar (occupation?) job. They avidly train and compete in the martial arts as a hobby and first love, but work a white collar job to pay the bills and support their hobby.
Occupation (Name)
Give a general description of the occupation and the kinds of jobs a character can hold. An occupation is how a character makes their living and their basic wealth, those without an occupation must either be independently wealthy or they are destitute. Finally an occupation provides certain bonuses and advantages that are otherwise unavailable.
Prerequisites: Minimum elements a character must have to enter the occupation.
Training: Feats this occupation grants at 1st level, thereafter, these become prerequisite feats a character must have before they may enter this occupation.
Skills: At first level when selecting skills to train in, you may use the following skills as class skills. Any skill on this list that repeats a skill from your class and you are trained in it gain an additional +2 competency bonus in its use. (note: if you change occupations you may lose any competency bonuses, though you may gain new ones).
(The pertinent selection of skills for this occupation, available skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Computer Use, Diplomacy, Endurance, Insight, Intimidate, Knowledge (Bureaucracy, History, Life Sciences, Physical Sciences, Social Sciences, Tactics, Technology), Languages, Mechanics, Perception, Stealth, Streetwise, Survival, Treat Injury)
Reputation Bonus: Listed only if +1 or higher, represents a high profile occupation that brings your character a certain amount of notoriety.
Wealth Level: The starting wealth level and maximum wealth level attainable by this occupation. If an occupation wealth level increase would exceed this maximum it is not gained. As your occupation largely defines your wealth level, when you change occupations you decrease your wealth level by any wealth the career provides, your next occupation defines your new wealth level. You only keep any wealth level greater than what your occupation provides you, this is added to a new occupation’s provided wealth level.
Career Paths: You must select one of the listed career paths for your character in order to pursue this occupation.
Career Path
Give a basic explanation of this career path. It is not a specific job, but rather how the character is employed in their career such as laborer, manager, enlisted, officer, etc… Any particular immediate advantage such as a higher starting wage is indicated here. You are prompted to also select your first occupation talent that you qualify for as well.
Prerequisite: In addition to the occupation prerequisite, this career path may require you to take specific feat(s) and/or be trained in specific skill(s).
Career Milestones: You earn a career milestone every other level gained from the time you start this career. These are at every odd level (levels 1, 3, 5, 9, 11, etc…).
* When you earn a milestone you may select an additional talent that you qualify for.
* To advance your career you will have to meet certain minimum standards such as time in your current career level. If you meet these standards and you have reached a career milestone you may advance your career to the next level and gain a +1 increase to your Wealth Level. If there is a limit to how far your career can advance this is also indicated here.
* To change your career path or occupation you will have to meet certain criteria. This may be the amount of time that you have been in your current career path or occupation, or some other trigger. If you meet these criteria you may change your career path or occupation the next time you reach a career milestone.
Career Talents
These are special talents your character may attain as they reach career milestones in their chosen occupation. These talents may be limited by advancement level in career path or by career paths, meaning a character may have to plan on changing career paths at some point in order to access all of an occupation’s talents. Talents represent the essential skills a character is able to take with them if they ever change occupations.
Talent Tree
This explains a grouping of talents available to the occupation. A talent never grants a power. Instead a talent provides a modifier or bonus to an existing feature like attack rolls, skill checks, a defense, movement, damage, and so on; or may provide a modification to an existing action. There will usually be one tree for each available career path and a total of 8 to 10 named talents, some of these may allow a character to take them multiple times each. The aggregate should be to provide 16-20 talent choices for an occupation rewarding those who stick with it.
Talent: Explanation of the talent and what it provides.
Prerequisite: Any prerequisites that must be met before this talent can be selected. All talents are assumed to require the character to hold the given occupation before selecting so this isn’t listed as a prerequisite.
Example Occupation:
This is adjusted from the d20 Modern Military occupation. I do not pretend that this is in any way accurate, only as an example to highlight the mechanics mentioned above.
Military
You are a member of your country’s armed forces and covers careers in the army, navy, air force, and marines, as well as the various elite training units such as Seals, Rangers, and Special Forces.
Prerequisite: Age 18+, Str 13, Con 13
Training: Armor (light, medium, heavy), Assault Firearms, Simple Weapons.
Skills: At first level when selecting skills to train in, you may use the following skills as class skills. Any skill on this list that repeats a skill from your class and you are trained in it gain an additional +2 competency bonus in its use.
Athletics, Endurance, Intimidate, Knowledge (tactics, technology), Languages, Mechanics, Perception, Survival, Treat Injury
Wealth Level: Start 5, max 15.
Career Paths: Enlisted or Officer. You must fulfill your term of service before you may elect to take a new occupation; your term of service depends on the military that you serve.
Enlisted Career Path
You begin having completed basic training as an E1. You begin with a Wealth Level of 5 and you may select 1 Military talent that you qualify for.
Career Milestones: You earn a career milestone every other level gained from the time you start this career.
• When you earn a milestone you may select an additional Military talent that you qualify for.
• When you earn a milestone and you have been in your current rank a minimum of 6 months per rank achieved you may advance your rank (e.g. E1 to E2 to a maximum of E9) and gain a +1 increase to your Wealth Level.
• Enlisted ranks of E4 and higher are considered non-commissioned officers (NCO) and qualify to take Military Leadership talents or may elect at the next career milestone to enter the Officer Career path, starting at O1, if they meet the pre-requisites.
Officer Career Path
You begin having completed basic and officer training as an O1. You begin with your starting Wealth Level +1 (WL 6) and you may select 1 Military talent you qualify for.
Prerequisite: 21+, Educated feat
Career Milestones: You earn a career milestone every other level gained from the time you start this career.
• When you earn a milestone you may select an additional Military talent that you qualify for.
• When you earn a milestone and you have been in your current rank a minimum of 6 months per rank achieved you may advance your rank (e.g. O1 to O2 to a maximum of O10) and gain a +1 increase to your Wealth Level.
• You are not able to enter the Enlisted Career path but you do qualify to take Military Combat talents.
Military Talents
When you first enter the Military occupation and each time you achieve a career milestone you may select a talent from the following talent trees. You may only select a talent that you qualify for.
Military Combat Talent Tree
Members of the military receive extensive training in various martial techniques to make them more effective warriors.
Combat Conditioning: You gain a +1 bonus to your Fortitude Defense. You may take this talent up to 5 times, each additional time add +1 to your Fortitude Defense (maximum bonus +5).
Combat Maneuver: You may shift up to a number of squares equal to 1 + your Dexterity modifier so long as you either start or end your movement next to an ally. Normally you would only shift 1 square.
Prerequisite: Combat Conditioning and Combat Survival.
Combat Survival: You may make saving throws against ongoing effects at the start of your turn before resolving these effects.
Prerequisite: Combat Conditioning.
Greater Combat Effects: When you make a burst attack that can deal damage gain +1 to its radius. You may take this talent up to 3 times, each additional time add +1 to your burst radius (maximum burst radius +3).
Prerequisite: Weapon Handling.
Weapon Handling: Add your Constitution modifier to all attack and damage rolls.
Military Leadership Talent Tree
Officers both commissioned and non-commissioned are expected to lead and they accomplish this through formal training, personal experience, and natural charisma.
Seize Initiative: You and your allies gain a +1 bonus to initiative checks. You may take this talent up to 5 times, each time add +1 to your initiative checks (maximum bonus +5).
Prerequisite: E4 or O1 or higher, Lead the Troops, and Tactical Deployment.
Inspirational Leadership: Any ally that acts after you in the initiative order adds your Charisma modifier to their attack rolls and skill checks.
Prerequisite: E4 or O1 or higher.
Lead the Troops: Any ally that uses a Surge within 10 squares of you adds your Charisma modifier to the number of hit points they regain.
Prerequisite: E4 or O1 or higher.
Tactical Deployment: Any ally that acts before you in the initiative order may shift a number of squares equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier so long as they either start or end their movement next to you. Normally your allies would only be able to shift 1 square.
Prerequisite: E4 or O1 or higher, Lead the Troops.
Some Modern Feats?
Aircraft Operation (You may operate/pilot a chosen aircraft)
Armor Proficiency (Archaic)
* Leather -> Hide -> Chainmail -> Scale -> Plate
Armor Proficiency (Light)
Armor Proficiency (Medium)
Armor Proficiency (Heavy)
Handle Animal (You may use Diplomacy to handle/control an animal)
Ride (You gain actions/benefits/control when mounted on an animal)
Shield Proficiency (Light)
Shield Proficiency (Heavy)
Surface Vehicle Operation (You may operate/drive a chosen surface vehicle)
Weapon Proficiency (Simple Weapons)
Weapon Proficiency (Archaic Melee Weapons)
Weapon Proficiency (Archaic Ranged Weapons)
Weapon Proficiency (Exotic Archaic Weapons)
Weapon Proficiency (Personal Firearms)
Weapon Proficiency (Assault Firearms)
Weapon Proficiency (Exotic Firearms)
The Feats listed above are primarily notes to work with, but are in no way reflective of any final truth.
As for "some people can, some people can't" as a problem, I feel it is a benefit since it breaks suspension of disbelief when all the heroes become Mary Sues. I only justify vehicle operation feats from the point of view that a person does need education and training to operate them, more so as the vehicle becomes more complex; kinda the point of a feat.
I am still debating the value of vehicle operations as either Skills or Feats and I welcome your thoughts on the matter.
My thoughts on the matter at this point:
Vehicle Skills
Drive (surface vehicles)
Pilot (aircraft)
Using 4e as a basis, technically anyone can operate a vehicle. When you are trained in the use of a vehicle skill you gain access to special actions and vehicle maneuvers, like being trained in Acrobatics lets you do some things you can't when you are not trained.
Pro: Anyone can use a vehicle. Training doesn't impact your feat budget and grants you exotic vehicle actions. Reflects using vehicles as a skill that anyone in a Modern setting is at least familiar with.
Con: Technically not everyone can use a vehicle, and different vehicles require different sets of skills. Training impacts your skill budget, meaning training in a vehicle skill robs you of some other skill. Breaks credibility in a Modern setting to allow just anyone to be successful when operating certain vehicles untrained.
Vehicle Feats
Aircraft Operation (You may operate/pilot a chosen aircraft)
Ride (You gain actions/benefits/control when mounted on an animal)
Surface Vehicle Operation (You may operate/drive a chosen surface vehicle)
Branching off the Mounted Combat feat from D&D 4e, operating a vehicle requires a feat. This represents the specific training in the use and operation of that vehicle.
Pro: Maintains suspension of disbelief, characters are not Mary Sues. Feat use doesn't impact your Training budget. Reflects vehicle use as a matter of formal education and training that a feat represents.
Con: Not everyone gets to use a vehicle without some tricks of game mechanics. Taking a vehicle feat impacts your ability to take other possibly more useful feats. Is a wonky mechanic because it is unclear how much vehicle usage will actually come into play in a game.
Some of my working questions:
Would an amalgam of vehicle skill/feat use be appropriate instead?
Modern skills already expand the 4e skill set considerably, how does the Modern skill set effectively remain condensed when we keep finding new skills to add?
Is a feat an appropriate place to put what was previously a skill?
What kind of mechanics would support vehicle encounter use? Use in character scale combat?
Should vehicles be dumped for encounter use alltogether and just become a plot device (like ships in D&D)? If yes, would this render character vehicle skills/feats pointless?
Should this just be shelved and revisited later?
I am mulling a "Wheelman" or "Vehicle Ace" class to play around with these mechanics. Would probably end up an unused class but would be useful for exploring encounter use of vehicles. For this exercise it would be useful to understand the skill/feat relationship for vehicle usage.
(What are thoughts on the proposed Occupation mechanics detailed a couple posts back?)
This may be just my gray hair talkin,
but I remember back in the day....
We played out imaginary pen, paper, & dice games with pens, papers, dice, and imagination.
The DM would describe (yes, DM as in DungeonMaster, thats what they were called... and why it is the DungeonMasterGuide and not the GameMastersGuide)... the DM would describe with vivid & horible details the abhoration coming out of the darkness. Now GMs are supposed to just plop a $18 Beholder Miniature down on the table with a "Lets fight one of these" followed by players filled with glee "Wow, cool" rather than, "OMG We run like cats on fire from whatever that thing is"
As demonstrated by the allpowerful Yogurt in the movie Spaceballs,
Merchandizing the game has taken over playing the game. You no longer play D&D, you buy D&D stuff & use it till you can buy the next tier in PowerCreep they will sell the minmaxers & mini-collectors.
2 books & 5 dice should be all you need to play a D&D game of imagination,
rather than watering it down because "Math Is Hard" (and dont forget that the HARD MATH is just "+-x/"), and despite there being a plethera of $2 - $50 painted plastic "Orc With Axe" minis out there we still say "Pennies are Axemen and Nickles are Archers, Skittles are Giant Rats, and the BottleCap is... Dave, stop eating the giant rats"
Was I going anywhere with this rant?
Oh yeah, 5.7 aint 2d8, and the McRules are McBad.
Just what does that have to do with anything? You can still use pennies for orcs under a new ruleset.
I would just say to keep it within the 4e spirit, someone with a combat feat is MORE ABLE, everyone else still can, but taking the feat makes you better.
Point taken. I agree.
4e has done away with the ride skill, all the craft skills, and nearly all of the knowledge skills. Most of the others have been wrapped into each other and consolidated. Notable exceptions are the History skill, but 4e has still squeezed all of its skills into 17 skills.
My suggestion here would be to do the same, if you’re imitating 4e. Especially get rid of the pilot/drive/ride skill. It’s not that you shouldn’t have vehicles, or that they should be DM phiat, but there are some serious issues with them.
1) A major issue I never saw resolved was how to balance a tank (or any of a large assortment of vehicles) in the game. It’s one thing when the party gets one, but it’s another when the party fights one. Obviously, a lvl 1 npc in a tank is a significantly higher challenge than that same lvl 1 npc without the tank, but there’s no way of calculating the additional exp, or even setting a challenge rating.
2) There aren’t many vehicles that allow multiple pilots/drivers to operate them simultaneously. One player is going to be making a lot of dice rolls while the rest of the party watches TV in the next room.
3) Most games don’t focus on vehicles. It’s on the players characters on the ground. Granted, you could make a whole campaign about 4 pilots who fly a wing of Sabers in Vietnam, or a Giant Robot Cruisade (thank you d20 future!), but frankly I think those kinds of games diserve their own books. Because if that’s the campaign you want to run, then you have to consider the fact that you payed $40 for a book and your only using a page full of tables from it.
4) 4e is all about streamlining every thing. They have cut out animal companions, and summons just because it was expedient to reduce the number of actions players have to choose from. Lets not forget that vehicle combat anything like it currently is would simply reverse that trend. You’re talking about a second character sheet for your giant robot, or helicopter or whatever.
5) When doing combat with vehicles, you don’t simply declare what you are doing and roll to see if it succeeds. You often have to make a skill check to see if you can even perform the action! In some situations, that can be twice as many dice rolls each round. Worse, if any of those rolls fails then your turn is wasted? Yippie!
I think vehicles should be in any d20 modern rules set, but don’t do them as a skill. You should look at the way 4e handles the horses and expand from there. All of their mounts are in the monster manual. Without the mounted combat feat, all a mount does is give you a better speed score. With the mounted combat feet, you can make your horse take combat actions, or let it use your characters stats for any skill checks. This doesn’t eliminate all the problems I listed above, but it’s a good starting point.
On the tech skills, I would point out that craft skills are completely gone. That’s the boring part of the game where the GM says “And time passes, ok you complete that Buick you were building”. Cut them. Then I would cut the mechanic and computer skills.
Now I don’t say to cut mechanic and computer skills simply because of a trend. I just thought very hard about all the actions I could take with those skills, and I came up short. There isn’t a single application of those skills on an adventure that couldn’t be done as an application of the thievery skill, or a craft skill (and so we cut that. This is an adventure, we don’t need to spend game time crafting software).
On Occupations: I think your taking them for granted. Just because they are currently in d20 modern doesn’t necessarily mean they should continue to be used. Profession skills are gone from 4e, so if your going to get behind that trend than that part of the occupations is straight out. Also, why do you use them? Are they just there to determine what the characters wealth bonus is? If it is, then consider that you have written pages and pages of text just to determine the players starting wealth (it’s a flat 100 gp for all characters in 4e). I think you would be better off with a simple +2 for every one, and then just let them role play their professions. It’s not like some don’t make sense for certain classes anyways (Wait, your occupation is exotic dancer? But you’re a medic! You practice medicine for a hobby?)
As for the classes themselves: You may want to narrow your focus. Writing ONE book that can handle every thing is great and all, but consider that it may be too ambitious to do it all at once. It always impressed me that d20 modern/future could fit Kung-Fu adventures, Giant Robot crusades, Art Noir Detective plots, and fighting ancient demons in one book. But then you wind up with a lot of material that you just don’t use.
• If you do a military campaign the abundant fire arms are going to make the kung-fu classes and feats useless.
• If you do a Car racing campaign, you make every class except the daredevil useless.
• If you’re doing a super hero campaign then you’ve cut out most of the gun fighting classes.
• Etc. etc. etc.
It’s just that the result is that for any campaign your stuck cherry picking content from 4 different books.
Finally, and this may be most important: Consider that in 4e d&d, many skills and powers are simply supernatural. The rogue, for instance, doesn’t have magic but can turn himself invisible with one of his powers. I see all of these baw fests and nerd rages over guns and how they should be able to insta-gib a 20th level character. Before you do that consider:
1) if your going to make the game realistic in any way, then it will NOT be compatible with 4e d&d in any way.
2) HP is an abstraction. You don’t lose 5 hp when a bullet penetrates your skull and exits the back. Any HP loss should be narrated as the player being injured in a non-fatal way.
3) People in real life have survived some stupid things:
http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_living/vn_a_cavaiani.html
http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_living/vn_a_fitzmaurice.html
http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_living/vn_a_lemon.html
http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_living/vn_a_beikirch.html
Note: 2 of them survived grenade blasts, and 1 survived a mortar shelling that injured them. All of them spent a healing surge to continue fighting.
4) Modern equipment and magic have some balance issues. I never understood why some one would take 3 levels of a basic class, and 5 levels of mage to get fire ball when they could probably get a grenade launcher at 1st level. Even when illegal, that’s just +4 to the purchase DC. It’s not quite as good as the fire ball, but your still talking about a lvl 1 character doing damage comparable to that of a lvl 8 character.
PS: Looking back at the computer use, I remember there was one application of computers I left out. I thought it would be a good idea to give a +2 bonus to any one making a knowledge check when they have access to a computer with internet connection. I don't think that deserves a computer use skill by itself though.
Also, I guess I lost focus with that very last bullet point. The issue with balancing magic items and modern equipment is that equipment would obsolete the mage in many ways. I remember seeing somewhere in the posts before mine that there was an intention to be able to mix and match content from the 4e core books freely, but I don't see that as a trivial task.
What I got out of your post:
- No Drive/Pilot skills
- Treat Vehicles in an Encounter as creatures in vein of 4e Mounted Combat
- Not sure if Occupation is still a good idea
- Focus classes rather than try to fit everything
- Hit Points are an abstraction of a character's survivability
- Magic is out of place in Modern
- Not sure if D&D and Modern content can mix and match
I think we've bottomed out that Drive and Pilot skills are out. There is potentially some debate on whether vehicle operation type feats could fit, but for now these are shelved.
Yes, I think that a vehicle that can be used to fight in an encounter should be treated as a creature. In all practicality it doesn't matter what skill checks the crew is making, the vehicle either singularly acts or it doesn't. This is probably the only place where vehicle operation feats might come up. In D&D 4e you have to take the Mounted Combat feat to gain certain actions and advantages when fighting from a mount, otherwise you don't get them. For Modern I can potentially imagine a similar mechanic, especially in a Future supplement that incorporates Mecha (but let's not get ahead of ourselves).
My justification for Occupation and Class is to preserve some mechanic where you can define your character rather than have your Class pick it for you as well as act as a replacement to races. In D&D your Class is your Occupation, however, in Modern your Occupation is how you make your living and your class is how you do it. So in light of 4e I think that Occupation would be appropriate to define a character's skills and training, and Class would be appropriate to define a character's available actions. Given my example Occupation a few posts back, I concede that mechanic needs some severe polishing, I also admit in that post that some Occupation/Class combinations are better than others.
I agree classes should be focused, after all this is Modern so a Wizard is pretty far gone out of place. For a Modern setting these classes should be appropriate and not try and pull from other genres, that would be fertile ground for supplemental material. For instance I think that an Investigator class would be an appropriate Modern class as the hardboiled P.I., or police detective, or investigative reporter are all quintesential Modern heroes. The Investigator is also a staple of so many other genres in Modern fiction that it would be hard not to concieve of this as a core Modern class.
I agree with your assessment of Hit Points, it is a simple abstract mechanic that gauges the survivability of a character. Some characters are just better at making it through rough situations than others or just get really lucky/unlucky. For those that like a more "realistic" approach and can't accept a guy surviving a direct hit from a tank cannon there are other models. When you get right down to it, if you want to use hit points as a realistic model then regardless of class or level everyone just gets 1 HP.
Magic is absolutely out of place in Modern. It shouldn't be included at all. Perhaps in some supplement it could reemerge (like Urban Arcana), but no magic in core Modern. If it does work its way in it should be the stuff of classic horror rather than something the characters can use.
Mechanically I wanted the Modern 2.0 and D&D 4e to be close enough that you could plug and play elements from either into the other. For instance one Modern GM decides to run a Zombie horror campaign, they can grab zombies from the Monster Manual and use as-is for their shotgun weilding Modern heroes to pump-n-chunk their way through. Or a D&D DM decides that a magic portal opens and dumps a Tank into the hands of a bunch of demented and ingenious goblins. This doesn't mean it has to be done, but one thing I found irksome in the current Modern was the conversions you had to do to drop D&D stuff into it, even though d20 Modern was basically D&D Modern given its presentation and material.
I think d20 Modern 2.0 should probably be a plug-n-play device. You can run a purely modern campaign set in roughly the present day, or you can drop in various supplements to get the campaign you want. From this perspective, then d20 Modern 2.0 could view D&D material as supplemental rather than a completely different system requiring laborious conversion to maintain balance.
(Note: This is an evolving discussion meaning that new Wizards publications and later posts can quickly render previous posts obsolete. Mileage may vary.)
I kind of see what you mean about occupations, but I'm still not sold on the idea.
Firstly: I don't agree that your class is your occupation in d&d. A wizard can be a mercenary just as easily as a fighter can in d&d. A knight could also be just about any wealthy (that is part of the gentry class) character who has had the tittle granted to him (Knight is a non-inheritable title) and would not be a mercinary, but could be a soldier in service of a lord, and there is nothing restricting the title of knight from being bestowed on wizards, clerics or any other class. I could spend all day writting down different Occupations that are similar, and are not class Dependant.
Secondly: Occupation strikes me as a role-playing element. You don't need a list of choices from a book, that gives you bonus to say that "I am an archaeologist who smuggles weapons for the American Sympathizers in Iran" or "I am a Hollywood actress who plays an action hero on TV during the day, but I don my persona from the show to fight crime by night". There ARE rpg's that control that sort of thing, but at the same time there are thousands of psychologists that have their patients do that exact same kind of role playing without handing out any rule books.
Thirdly: If you still need a way to determine the players wealth, just give them a flat +3 or +2 or whatever is fair. Any more stats would give players incentive to either take the doctor occupation for the +4 wealth, or the military occupation for the extra feat.
That being said, I could think of one exception: At lvl 1, when characters are given a list of class skills, and told to select a number of them to be trained, you could have the list determined by the occupation instead of their class.
EX: Military Occupation:From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level: Acrobatics, Athletics, Endurance, History, Stealth, Nature
Sales representative Occupation: From the class skills list below, choose three more trained skills at 1st level: Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight, Perception, Streetwise, thievery
But even here, I have strong hesitations. Most of the skills are combat oriented, and since your character's abilities are only relevant to combat (every thing else SHOULD be role-played) it would only make sense that the skills would be determined by whatever class they chose.
On Game Focus
I think you understand me on the classes. That's where I think d&d has the greatest advantage. No matter what the setting of the game is, you can always count on being a Wizard, Fighter, Theif, or Cleric in d&d and expect to do every thing the same way you would in another setting. It doesn't matter that it's forgotten realms, or Eberron, or Greyhawk. The players will be doing the same thing they always do, just in a different place.
I noticed that didn't always hold true in d20 modern. You couldn't count on the dare-devil class always being useful, or even available. Same went with guns, kung-fu, or anything really. The very nature of the game, and exactly what skills and equipment you needed/had would change dramatically depending on setting and game focus.
Your Private investigator, or just investigator, could probably fit into any game. You should give a lot more thought as to what kind of abilities he may have, and whether or not they would really define him as an investigator or not though.
If all the investigator was was a very large class skill list, with few useful combat powers then you may want to rethink him. If he has some great combat powers, but doesn't really have anything that defines him as an "investigator" you may want to think about renaming his class.
Game Balance
Your still going to have to do something to translate the stats of any d&d book to balance them in any d20 modern book simply because of the presence of guns. All of the monsters who rely on melee damage dealing would be significantly less challenging in a d20 modern game, and should reward less experience.
Also, if your not going to take magic into account in a modern rule book, you will never be able to get the kind of compatibility I think you are seeking between the 2 games. Mechanically, they may be the same. The availability of different weapons and abilities however will create a very non-trivial task out of planning encounters, and rewarding experience points. I just don't think d20 modern could ever be a "plug-n-play" device and be 100% free from tables/algorithms that adjust stats.
I can't believe that d20:Modern is completely dead. I believe it is only "mostly dead". <Thank you, Billy Crystal>
We have seen statements from WotC that there is a d20 4E Game System License & System Reference Documents slated for future release.
That being said, for there to be SRDs there must be a rulebook that they reference. So Wizards has a new d20:Modern in production.
I have placed a post in the D&D/GSL Forum asking for more info about the "future" release of the d20 GSL/SRD (as I am trying to put together a non-fantasy game).
Wizards has recently posted some of the product releases for 2009 and there is no mention of d20:Modern. However, this list is incomplete (as it only shows up to April of 2009) and only shows D&D 4E Core material. So there is some hope.
"Have fun storming the castle..."
"...Wizards is also working on the details of a second royalty-free license, the d20 Game System License (d20 GSL). This license will allow third-party publishers to create roleplaying game products in non-fantasy settings with the 4E rules. The exact details for the d20 GSL will be released as they become available. "
Just to let everyone know, there is this really cool game system that you only have to learn once and all the genres in the minds eye are opened to it. Another novel idea, it’s a Role-playing game and not a hack-and-slash game.
GURPS (Generic Universal Role Playing Game)
www.sjgames.com
I know a toy company like Hasbro does not want anyone to know about it. This is what all systems after D&D 2.0 tried to mimic but WotC miserably failed to support. With GUPRS you just need to buy the core rule book, then any books after that are just for the genre you want to play. Want to play a Modern campaign? You buy 1 book that gives you all the rules you need to just do modern. Want to play in Imperial Rome? Space, Vikings, Apocalyptic, Fantasy, Mech, ect…….
I agree with the Grey Haired Old Man!
Just to let everyone know, there is this really cool game system that you only have to learn once and all the genres in the minds eye are opened to it. Another novel idea, it’s a Role-playing game and not a hack-and-slash game.
GURPS (Generic Universal Role Playing Game)
www.sjgames.com
I know a toy company like Hasbro does not want anyone to know about it. This is what all systems after D&D 2.0 tried to mimic but WotC miserably failed to support. With GUPRS you just need to buy the core rule book, then any books after that are just for the genre you want to play. Want to play a Modern campaign? You buy 1 book that gives you all the rules you need to just do modern. Want to play in Imperial Rome? Space, Vikings, Apocalyptic, Fantasy, Mech, ect…….
Except GURPS requires time I don't have to build the campaign world and all the NPC's in it.
I agree with the Grey Haired Old Man!
Just to let everyone know, there is this really cool game system that you only have to learn once and all the genres in the minds eye are opened to it. Another novel idea, it’s a Role-playing game and not a hack-and-slash game.
GURPS (Generic Universal Role Playing Game)
www.sjgames.com
I know a toy company like Hasbro does not want anyone to know about it. This is what all systems after D&D 2.0 tried to mimic but WotC miserably failed to support. With GUPRS you just need to buy the core rule book, then any books after that are just for the genre you want to play. Want to play a Modern campaign? You buy 1 book that gives you all the rules you need to just do modern. Want to play in Imperial Rome? Space, Vikings, Apocalyptic, Fantasy, Mech, ect…….
GURPS is an unbalanced rules heavy monster that moves with all the speed of a caged snail.
Did you ever play D20 Modern or SAGA edition?
Because Piloting/Driving is why most people want to play a D20 Modern Game, I don't want to play D20 Modern just to "Shoot Guns" I want Planes, Trains and Automobiles. I want vehicle chases, I want to fight tanks etc.
I just feel Vehicle Operation Feats are too limiting, the skills (at least a single Vehicles skill) should stay, I felt Starwars did it perfectly, you just need to make sure that you don't have the old D20 modern split between People who can drive and fight in vehicles, but can't do anything else, and people who can only drive a car down the street to get milk.
As well in Starwars SAGA, Mechanics was basically Thievery, keep it named mechanics.
I REALLY disagree with the idea of leaving out Drive/Pilot and many of ShiverX26's other suggestions.
Did you ever play D20 Modern or SAGA edition?
Because Piloting/Driving is why most people want to play a D20 Modern Game, I don't want to play D20 Modern just to "Shoot Guns" I want Planes, Trains and Automobiles. I want vehicle chases, I want to fight tanks etc.
I just feel Vehicle Operation Feats are too limiting, the skills (at least a single Vehicles skill) should stay, I felt Starwars did it perfectly, you just need to make sure that you don't have the old D20 modern split between People who can drive and fight in vehicles, but can't do anything else, and people who can only drive a car down the street to get milk.
As well in Starwars SAGA, Mechanics was basically Thievery, keep it named mechanics.
Thats all good and well, but then You aren't really imitating the 4e changes. There is no Horseman class in d&d, and the Paladin doesn't specialize in mounted combat either. That hasn't excluded mounted combat, and mounted chases, or battle between 2 wagons either.
I don't want to cut vehicles at all either. I actually suggested a way of incorporating vehicle combat in my post if you read it carefully enough. If you want to add in driving/piloting skills/classes thats fine too, but as soon as you start doing that you may as well stop imitating 4e because 4e simply doesn't go there.
• D&D took a lot away from MMOs, in particular World of Warcraft and its ilk. How about d20 modern look to the First Person Shooter genre to get its archetypes (or some inspiration) – engineer, gunner etc makes more sense for modern. Though the basic four will work as well (defender, controller etc).
• Have the basic classes = tier 1 (level 1 to 10) and the advanced classes for tier 2 (11-20). And drop tier 3 for modern but make it available for sci-fi/space opera, horror etc type games. So for Gamma World, Dark Matter, Starcraft etc.
• In terms of power sources you could have: martial and tech. Add in psionic and magic for the other sub-genres of modern.
The biggest hurdle is converting abilities into the will, encounter, daily format and converting the mobs from the CL based “big bad” model to the “dozens of goons” model. The other hurdle would be to really focus on the rules. Look at each one and say “does this add anything MECHANICALLY to the game play experience?” No, then chuck it. Too time consuming? Chuck it. Etc.
No offence CTRMann but GURPS doesn’t hold a candle to D&D for Fantasy role-playing. Its such a soulless system.
This may be just my gray hair talkin,
but I remember back in the day....
We played out imaginary pen, paper, & dice games with pens, papers, dice, and imagination.
The DM would describe (yes, DM as in DungeonMaster, thats what they were called... and why it is the DungeonMasterGuide and not the GameMastersGuide)... the DM would describe with vivid & horible details the abhoration coming out of the darkness. Now GMs are supposed to just plop a $18 Beholder Miniature down on the table with a "Lets fight one of these" followed by players filled with glee "Wow, cool" rather than, "OMG We run like cats on fire from whatever that thing is"
As demonstrated by the allpowerful Yogurt in the movie Spaceballs,
Merchandizing the game has taken over playing the game. You no longer play D&D, you buy D&D stuff & use it till you can buy the next tier in PowerCreep they will sell the minmaxers & mini-collectors.
2 books & 5 dice should be all you need to play a D&D game of imagination,
rather than watering it down because "Math Is Hard" (and dont forget that the HARD MATH is just "+-x/"), and despite there being a plethera of $2 - $50 painted plastic "Orc With Axe" minis out there we still say "Pennies are Axemen and Nickles are Archers, Skittles are Giant Rats, and the BottleCap is... Dave, stop eating the giant rats"
Was I going anywhere with this rant?
Oh yeah, 5.7 aint 2d8, and the McRules are McBad.
The D&D 4e books are expensive enough! All three of them add up to $100, and I'm supposed to spend hundreds of dollars more on various minatures? Setting up the board with each encounter takes time. the combat takes time as each player sorts through the various options before announcing the action, then when the alotted playing time expires, as often occurs we have to remember the position of each piece on the board and where it was at the point we ceased playing and then reset the whole thing the next playing session so the combat can continue where we left off. I think sheets of graph paper will do just fine. I tend to make paper counters, and whenever someone sneezes or just gets up, the air currents move the pieces on the board. Theres also the fact that the combat maps with the 1 inch squares take up alot of room so I have to place them on the floor.
The player character classes are very complex and take up multiple pages in the Player's handbook. I'm interested in recreating a version of the Star Frontiers game. As you know the old Star Frontiers game had no character classes, it just had characters and races.
1. Class: What's really needed is a Generic character class, a character class with no special abilities but with the capability of learning any skill and acquiring any feat with equal ease.
2. Races:The races are Dralasite, Vrusk, Yazirian, Human, Aleerin, Fraal, Sesheyan, T'Sa, and Weren.
3. Weapons:
Weapon ---- Damage --- Crit --- Damage Range Incr Max ---- Power clip - Rof
Laser pistol: 1d8 per shot - 20 ---- fire ---- 40 feet -- 400 feet - 50 shots - 5 per round
Laser Rifle: 1d10 per shot - 20 ---- fire ---- 80 feet -- 800 feet -- 100 shots - 5 per round
A laser pistol power pack has 50 charges or shots with each one expended capable of inflicting 1d8 points of damage on a hit. The laser pistol can fire a burst of 5 shots per round for a total of 5d8 points of damage using up 5 charges
A laser rifle power pack has 100 charges or shots with each one expended capable of inflicting 1d10 points of damage. The laser rifle can fire a burst of 5 shots inflicting 1d10 points of damage per shot for 5d10 points of damage.
4. Armor - Armor is rated by its ability to reduce damage inflicted, there is no armor class for energy weapons such as lasers, instead such weapons target the victim's Reflex score, if a hit is achieved the victim's armor bonus is then subtracted from the damage inflicted on him. This is also true of weapons firing high velocity bullets such as guns. Swords and arrows and other such primitive weapons target Armor class using the D&D 4e rules. Modern armor has an armor bonus ranging from 1 to 10 with a multiplier x2 or x3 for example. If the modern Armor is struck with laser fire for instance and the reflex score is attained or exceeded, then if the armor's protective value is 8 x 3 then the first 24 points of damage are subtracted, if that same person was hit by a sword, then only the first number before the 'x' is applied increasing that character's armor class by 8 points when worn. If the armor class score is achieved or exceeded then the full rolled damage of that primitive weapon is taken and no points are subtracted from the damage total.
5. Starships: Starships are propelled by small amounts of antimatter and alot of water. Typically water takes up 25% of the total starship's internal volume and the ship can store enough antimatter for up to 9 trips. It takes a week to accelerate to 2% of the speed of light at 1g, up to 1 week is spend in the Void at 1g acceleration, and another week is spent slowing down from 2% of the speed of light after coming out of the Void.
Typical travel times within the void are:
1 light year: 1 day
2 light years: 34 hours
3 light years: 42 hours
4 light years: 2 days
5 light years: 2 days, 6 hours
6 light years: 2 days, 11 hours
7 light years: 2 days, 15 hours
8 light years: 2 days, 19 hours
9 light years: 3 days
16 light years: 4 days
25 light years: 5 days
36 light years: 6 days
49 light years: 7 days
The void is an empty expanse of pure blackness, a pocket universe created by the ship's hyperdrive upon reaching 2% of the speed of light.
Antimatter is not cheap, each trip worth of antimatter (about 3 weeks worth of acceleration) costs the entire prices of the starship without fuel. Thus if the starship costs 500,000 credits to construct, then each 3 weeks of supply of antimatter costs about 500,000 credits as well, since it can store 9 times this amount, total cost in this example is 5,000,000 credits. Antimatter is only available at core worlds, that is worlds with populations greater than 1 million inhabitants.
Some thoughts I've had myself & after glances to this thread - I really haven't got idea of Ability -based heroes. They just don't appeal to me. I'd see Saga -like compact themed classes with talents the best way to go, or then ignoring classes completely (to which direction 4E has already stepped by unifying advancement) and just making chained paths, requiring dedication to take some more advanced talents. If you think that ability -based classes are really brilliant invention, I'd really love to hear why!
Some thoughts about powers - in a way I like 4E powers, in a way they feel too restricted. I came to think of resource points, some being encounter -based (or being gatherable during encounters), and some that you would regain after each extended rest. Class features or feats/talents (or perhaps taking this a bit further from 4E - disadvantages) characters could get characters more resource points during encounters. Points shouldn't be too numerous or gained too fast. With tokens, conditions or other effects could be inflicted to targets or closeby opponents (or areas). This needs a bit more roleplaying than 4E, but I don't think it's bad - these effects should have reasonable explanations. Some effects would be selectable by everyone, and talents would increase effect of some. There would be different levels of effects (1st requiring 2 points and giving dazed until end of attacker's next turn, 2nd requiring 4 points and giving eg. blinded, or level 1 effect (save ends) and level 3 effect requiring 6 points and giving stunned.
But while at it, I started to think of these resource points for other purposes too; Resource points could be used for action points, additional saving throws (maybe with a talent) and second wind. Points could also allow attacks against defences other than AC, and might be half price if using it before to-hit roll, or to trigger actions on certain conditions (talents/feats only).
General idea would be to make a simple table of available effects, which wouldn't slow the game down too much. Everyone could add additional/improved effects that they gain with talents to their own character sheets.
What do you think, would this kind of powers work in Modern?