a.) How will d20 modern characters stack up against DnD 3.5 monsters? Anyone have an answer to this? Are they going to be horribly outmatched?
b.) How should i simulate features absent from d20 modern such as, sneak attack, favored enemy, rage, etc. Just use them in advanced classes?
is that is should go to a class that has a logical reason to know to target the medulla oblongata
rather than just Hit him in the head.
So no, that is not the style of the strong, not the quick or sturdy attackers,
and it dont matter how much you really are comitted to it
nor how impressive you look while trying to hit it,
no, it is a matter of study to know that is what you should be targeting in the first place.
And nothing says I know where the Med Ob is located like the Smart Hero.
Yes, the Smart should get to know the seven chakras of life (or death if you are so inclined) are, the diference between a vein and an artery, which is the tibia and why that is unimportant in killing folks.... he know what you need to live.
I dont see a guy knowing that just because he can get to ThirtySevensies playing jax,
or being able to suck start a bus with his strong lungs, or take a Tankgun slug to the eye without blinking... nope, they dont get the sneak attack type extra damage.
Of course, I do think a charismatic guy could take a swing and BLUFF the target into thinking a broken epidermis is a knockout blow, but thats just me
Keep in mind that Modern magic tops out at 5th level, and then you are into rituals which require Knowledge Arcana Checks in the 30's and a significant amount of time to cast.
So if a monster would need an 11th level (or higher) 3.5 spell caster to kill it, a modern character probably won't stand a chance.
I would use this as a guideline: If the monster has spell like abilities or supernatural powers greater than a 10th level caster (able to cast 5th level spells) then it is probably too powerful for D20 modern characters to handle.
As for features like sneak attack, etc... check out some of the advanced classes in D20 Future... Especially the Tracer advanced class and the Xenophile advanced class.
I dont see me throwing too many demons or angels at my PCs, i've always prefered the nonmagical monsters, spare dragons. Such as the hydras, krakens, etc.
There's no contest. D&D 3.5 monsters can easily stomp d20 Modern/Past characters.
D20 modern characters are much more powerful than non magic core classes, so if what youre saying is true then couldnt the exact same be said for D&D 3.5 monsters and their very own D&D 3.5 nonmagic core classes?
There's no contest. D&D 3.5 monsters can easily stomp d20 Modern/Past characters.
Advanced nuclear toxyderm. Just sayin'.
My opinion on various "D&D Modern" things:
- Sneak attack can work for advanced classes. The Gangster in d20 Past had it, after all...for...some reason. I imagine it would fit better in a martial artist-type or magicless d20 Modern version of the assassin, someone who would actually know where to find weak spots due to training or research.
- I've done rage as a talent tree, but only up to the 8th-level rage abilities because....well, you know, Modern class levels. If you want to go that route, it seems most fitting for the Tough or Strong Hero. Otherwise, you could have the rage talents split up into a Barbarian advanced class and some sort of prestige class that gives the higher-level rages.
- The D&D-style Sorcerer exists in d20 Modern...it's called the Adept (from Modern Player's Companion).
- Favored enemy also exists, in a different form. Take a look at the Xenophile from d20 Future, take notes on it, and reflavor it as you wish for a different advanced class.
- On monsters: Here's the clincher. Take a look at the Epic Level portion of the SRD. Compare them to the nuclear toxyderm. Not how many, even some of those with Damage Reduction against epic damage (which can be removed), are less powerful than that behemoth. Go back to the main Monster Manual monsters with a new frame of mind on just what "brutal" is.
rather than just assuming we are talking about Post Epic junk?
What does it look like at EL4, EL8, and EL12?
Cause I know what EL 1 & 2 look like:
Its an equipment imbalance of damage by PL. If the Ghouls/Direwolves/GiantSpiders dont have guns, and are stuck using 1d6-1d10 melee against... even an old WW2 party with a Tommy 3Garands and a BAR.... well, its 1d8 vs 2d10 per hit
But then the imbalance starts.
It is assumed the party will upgrade its equipment as it advances levels, the heavy hitting stuff is out of reach from low level guys due to cost. However, in Modern, the low level guys get the 2d10 Garands or 2d8 SKS at 1st or 2nd level.... and then they dont really have anywhere to 'upgrade' to other than M14/AK . A 10th level guy will have a sword with special damages that bring it almost up to par with the equipment a noob Modern gets.
So MONSTERS that dont use guns or magic are not that tough.
And in a modern world without magic, the magic based creatures will have it tought.
I'm just saying you can't discount monsters with magical abilities, as they're a part of D&D.
Badass.
You can also make a "patch" rule that any modern attack with greater than "+X" bonus is effectively skilled/powerful/technologically enhanced enough to work on a monster that's vulnerable only to "magic." As a precedent, I cite that Buffy episode with the demon that fully believes it can't be harmed "by any weapon forged by man" and Buffy says "That was then. This is now," and then blows him up with a rocket-launcher.
Badass.
Besides, most modern weapons are forged by machine.;) :P :D
As far as defeating DR... that's not too tough with modern weapons anyway... a law rocket ignores DR10 right off the bat, and then does an average of 35 points of damage on top of that.
Sure average damage from a hand gun is only 7 points (2d6) but average damage from a burst from an m-60 machine gun is 22 (4d10) and from a .50 cal its 26 (4d12).
DR isn't the real problem, its the powers that high level magical monsters can bring to bear against the PCs...
Modern characters just have less HP on average, lower Saves, lower BAB than their D&D counterparts and D&D monsters just have too many tricks (incorporeal, dimension shifting, mind control, damaging auras, regeneration, spells, etc), resistances, damage reduction and more to make it a fair fight.
That, and no one bothered to include the stats for a nuclear bomb in the Core Rulebook
.Houserules to make Modern characters "catch up" to D&D monsters only shows that they do, in fact, stomp Modern characters ;).
Modern characters just have less HP on average, lower Saves, lower BAB than their D&D counterparts and D&D monsters just have too many tricks (incorporeal, dimension shifting, mind control, damaging auras, regeneration, spells, etc), resistances, damage reduction and more to make it a fair fight.
That, and no one bothered to include the stats for a nuclear bomb in the Core Rulebook
It depends on the monster... Modern characters will do just fine against MOST monsters... Unless you are operating under the Assumption that Modern PCs don't have access to Magic or Psionics AT ALL.
Is that what you are saying? 'cause in that case you are severely limiting the abilities of modern characters...
And as for Nuclear bombs, check my sig.;)
Modern characters will do just fine against MOST D&D monsters.
I clarified your sentence. And no, they won't.
... Unless you are operating under the Assumption that Modern PCs don't have access to Magic or Psionics AT ALL.
Asides from d20 Modern magic being much more limited (in level) and rare than D&D magic, the fact that magic has to be used in the first place shows that "modern day characters" don't stand a chance without it.
I clarified your sentence. And no, they won't.
Asides from the fact that d20 Modern magic is much more limited than D&D magic, the fact that magic has to be used in the first place shows that "modern day characters" don't stand a chance without it.
For starters this thread is about D&D monsters in a D20 Modern Setting.
Adding D&D to my sentence was redundant.
Second, D20 Modern Characters have access to Magic... just not as powerful as D&D characters.
Third, Not every monster (in D&D) has some special quality that makes them immune to physical attacks. Even Dragons can be taken down by non magical means available to D20 Modern Characters.
I don't understand your problem Ragitsu... Surely you can admit that SOME monsters form D&D are within the power of D20 Modern Characters to defeat... even without the limited magic available to them.
But the vast majority have a wide array of abilities that simply make them nearly impossible/impossible to beat without suffering major casualties or a total party kill.
Sure, some can be damaged (a little), but in the next round they'll either heal it back, steal it back (vampiric), phase out of existence, teleport away and back the following round, burrow underground...or just kill a PC in one hit/spell.
I'll concede that a few are nothing but HP/skill lists without any spectacular ability, such as the various humanoids and animals.
But the vast majority have a wide array of abilities that simply make them nearly impossible/impossible to beat without suffering major casualties or a total party kill.
Sure, some can be damaged (a little), but in the next round they'll either heal it back, steal it back (vampiric), phase out of existence, teleport away and back the following round, burrow underground...or just kill a PC in one hit/spell.
And THOSE are the ones that the OP has to carefully consider before using them in a Modern Campaign... but the rest are fine... That's all I've been saying.
I'll concede that some are nothing but HP/skill lists without any spectacular ability, such as the various humanoids and animals.
But the vast majority have a wide array of abilities that simply make them nearly impossible/impossible to beat without suffering major casualties or a total party kill.
Sure, some can be damaged (a little), but in the next round they'll either heal it back, steal it back (vampiric), phase out of existence, teleport away and back the following round, burrow underground...or just kill a PC in one hit/spell.
Okay so how's this sound; certain monsters can be used based on the campaign settting and GM discretion the monster/animals can be placed in the game... for example a creature that could be a genetic experiment that escaped the lab, kills a few civies and encounters the party after/as a job... so say we strip certain abilities like the magic/regeneration/etcetera from it and the one hit kills.... maybe downgrade its HP or give it a weakness?
This all revolves around the GM's setting choice and PL just strip the special abilities or tone them down as needed and not to throw any really high creatures like the turosk at the party...
a.) How will d20 modern characters stack up against DnD 3.5 monsters? Anyone have an answer to this? Are they going to be horribly outmatched?
Starting a campaign at other than 473rd level,
say like 6th or even dare I say... First,
you can use the D&D monsters that dont have some freakish special imunities.
As the PCs get higher, the damage from a 7.62 rifle stays the same, so you need to make sure they have access to the good stuff when the time is right: rockets & satchel charges.
This is kinda like the problem of a bunch of non Mech guys in a Mech fight:
The mechs have insane gobs of firepower and Hardness that is impervious to most grunts weapons. So you need to make sure the squishies have AntiMech rockets and an enviroment to protect them.