Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 longrifle Mar 21, 2008 2:10:29	I used to be an avid fan of Rifts and recently visited their website to see that they are still in financial danger and have resorted, over the past couple of years, to remain alive due to begging their customer base for donations. These donations are now their lifeblood and they have convinced their followers that recovey is just around the corner. I have been upset with the leadership of Palladium to refuse to release their info for d20, which, in my opinion would bring new blood and life to an archaic system of mechanics. Here is a post I recently made to Palladium. Please note that within a few hours, my post had not only been deleted, but I had been banned from their forums with no response to what I had written whatsoever. I find it humerous that they deal with conflict by deleting posts which make them uncomfortable. To get the entire background, I would suggest visiting their website and their message boards to get the full scope of how degenerated the company has become, not only to mention how disillusioned their playerbase is. www.palladiumbooks.com "I want to mention the cowardly way that Palladium deals with conflict: sweep it under the rug. Don't let me have my say to be acknowledged or answered. Let's be children and erase my previous post and account so nobody else can read it. Here it is again for those of you who didn't see it the first time around. I want to start off by saying that I love the Rifts setting. For me, it is THE coolest I have ever played and I am a veteran of many years of playing RPG's. The most creative ideas and artwork, bar none. The artwork, concepts and ideas are a credit to role-playing games. However, I stopped playing years ago because of the headaches I developed from the numerous rule contradictions, errata and imbalances in the game (hello, M.D.C. damage). I know this discussion has been beaten to death, and I want to address it one more time. Unfortunately, Palladium was the victim of embezzlement. However, I am sure due to the stubbornness of the leadership to refuse conversion of this material to other systems (d20, for example), even while maintaining their own line of material and rules, has not helped the financial disaster Palladium is now in. Is this a pride thing for a rules system (the mechanics, not the ideas) that is nothing more than a glorified version of 1st ed. AD&D? It seems the base stats and the d20 die roll, among others elements, were blatantly ripped-off from TSR, Inc. and claimed to be an original work. Is it so bad to share these ideas with other mediums to play the game? Is it worth becoming a company of beggars leeching off our customer base year after year just to just keep going? Is it fair to financially drain our customers via donations and THEN ask them to come back and BUY our products? It seems like a business plan that could continue on for years with false promises of success just around the corner. Why not take an easier route and convert our ideas to other systems (d20, for example) so we can increase our profits. As long as Palladium has been begging, they seem to be nothing more than trained TV evangelists asking for money rather than savvy businessmen. I had to laugh at the thread entirely devoted to asking everyone to refrain from spending "too much" or donating beyond their means. I tip my hat to the good salesmen who have charmed their customer base to be willing to sell their possessions, assets and clothes off their backs, just to keep someone else's company going. A skill level that would even make the Rev. Jim Jones proud. I know that I and some of my gaming friends would have laid down cash for every would-be Rifts d20 products without thinking twice. Needless to say, that would also go for many gamers outside the Palladium circle. Apparently, that will never happen because of attempts to convert the rules on the internet to a set of mechanics that make sense are immediately slapped-down. Rather than take a clue from this and cash-in to keep the game going(and draw-in new blood), it's better to stoop to the level of a beggar. You know, just like that homeless guy everyone sees along the roadside holding a cardboard signs which reads, "Will Work For Food". Hopefully, the long-anticipated RIFTS movie will *finally* come to fruition to at least provide some desperately needed capital to work with. If not, Palladium may continue to have the image of that homeless guy on the side of the road begging for their next meal. Until then, here's to more years of begging."
#2 natanax May 20, 2008 11:06:34	I've been debating a "rifts esque" d20 setting for years myself, mostly because the vast array of characters and the fun of post apoc dimension hopping is super cool. That and Palladium's biggest system flaw, the skill system, would be well remedied by a d20 conversion. I think this would be awesome.
#3 crazy_monkey May 20, 2008 12:28:08	I would like to ask that this discussion remain focused on the gaming potential of a Rifts style d20 Modern campaign and not on the company that makes Rifts. Thanks. That being said, I am also a fan of Rifts and D20 Modern and have thought about such a conversion myself. Rifts does suffer from an overload of skills that don't necessarily come up in game play, as well as a static skill progression that makes character advancement less than exciting. I'm not sure how well D20 Modern could handle mecha combat, however, which is a big component of Rifts.
#4 terjonwh May 20, 2008 16:53:52	I used to think if you could just port the setting over to a functional system then there would be some roleplaying gold in Rifts. But the simple truth is there are enough good games out there that distilling the good stuff out of that pile of that crap just isn't worth the effort.
#5 Giradius May 23, 2008 8:49:51	In my opinion, there is sufficient material around to cover almost every mechanic needed for a Rifts game, the only thing that's needed is to assign x mechanic to x rifts concept. Terjonwh: I agree with you, there is a lot of good stuff already around and the palladium rules system is not up to scratch at all, and while it would be a lot of work to distill the good stuff out of the crude whole, it would be much less work if it becomes a collaborative effort. Considering some of the terrible ideas and threads I have seen on these boards, converting Rifts to D20 is one of the better ones. I am up for working on this project, I am not an expert on the setting but I have several of the rulebooks (the core book, the Magic compendium, the federation of magic, and a few others) I think a good way to go about it would be follow the progression of topics from the PHB, I.E Races, Classes (which would also include prestige class's and also possible templates that would have been classes in the Rifts game, like the juicer), Skills, Feats, Equipment, Magic. Add to this a bestiary and an overview of the setting with some customizing based on location (for example humans from the federation of magic get a magic using class as a preferred class and knowledge arcana as a class skill). What do people think?
#6 crazy_monkey May 23, 2008 9:27:42	A minimalist approach may be the best approach. Take D20 Modern/Future as the core element, using D&D magic and psionics as needed. Then take a look at the Rifts core book (don't worry about all the supplements yet, we can get to those later) and create Talent Trees for D20 Modern classes that correspond to the OCCs of Rifts. Then take a look at the skills for Rifts and translate them into D20 Modern skills and feats. That would be how I would approach the project at least.
#7 natanax May 23, 2008 15:00:07	Thinking hard about it, combining all of the D20 Modern products into one gigantic setting (which is possible) where everything is available may very well emulate Rifts pretty well. You have Magic provided by Urban Arcana and D20 Past, Technology provided by D20 Future and Cyberscape, Monsters Provided by all of the above, the menace manual and Call of Cthulu D20 (for something like the Splugorth). Setting details provided by some of the Alternative Campaign suggestions in D20 Modern/Future as well as D20 Apocalypse. The rest is pretty much just building things for the setting and figuring out how various things (like Vampire PC's and Power Level Scaling) would work.
#8 ice_miller May 27, 2008 15:39:05	I feel the same warm, fuzzy feelings that Longrifle, NatanaX, and Crazy Monkey express about Rifts. I lost my virginity to D&D, fell in love with Rifts, but was beguiled by my mistress, d20, because her rules made sense of a chaotic world. But I still think fondly of all the wonderful, cool, zany material that made up the setting of Rifts. And I want it back! So, let's collaborate and put some stuff up here that retains the flavor of Rifts but uses the mechanics and logic of d20. As soon as I get home from work today (currently teaching the youth of America), I'll put up something that I transferred over from Rifts.
#9 crazy_monkey May 28, 2008 11:06:13	Some thoughts on Rifts OCCs translated to D20 (not final versions, just brainstorming). Note: I'm referencing Rifts Ultimate Edition for this analysis. Combat Cyborg This OCC translates relatively well if one turns into a race instead of a class and uses Eberron's Warforged for inspiration. New cybernetic components can be purchased as the 'borg acquires creds and the 'borg can take feats that further augment it. In the strictest sense, the 'borg would probably be a template applied to another race. The basic conversion (and available components and such) would need to scaled in such a manner as to keep the Level Adjustment at 0. Crazy Another candidate for a racial template instead of a class. The idea here is to create physical and psionic augmentation through the use of brain implants. Thus, I almost see this as a "purchaseable template." The same notion could be applied to the cyborg as well. The Crazy Template adjustments would turn the subject into a psionic race (having a racial power point reserve and able to take psionic feats) and provide combat bonuses and bonuses to physical attributes that would scale with level. For the insanity aspect, this is primarily a roleplaying concern, though judicious use of Will saves to avoid acting out on whatever flavor of insanity the character possesses would be in order. Cyber-Knight A sort of cybernetic paladin with a bit of Jedi thrown in for good measure. What I see here is a class that mixes and matches the mechanics of Psychic Warrior and Soulknife with the code, alignment and general outlook of a Paladin. I'm seeing a prestige class here. Glitter Boy and Robot Pilot These two OCCs are primarily about the equipment (the power armor or robot) and not the actual character. As such, I would put the items themselves in the equipment list and turn the piloting of such items in to skills (a specific application of the D20 Modern Pilot skill) and Feats (a Robot Pilot feat that negates the penalties assocated with operating a robot untrained). Headhunter This is a straight-up bounty hunter style class, the flavor of which can be rolled into a Prestige Class. The cybernetic augmentations aren't vital to the flavor and can be purchased as the character chooses. Juicer Like the Cyborg and the Crazy, this OCC looks like a "purchaseable template" to me, and thus more like a race than a class. The drug harness and augmentations could be treated as a "magic item" in terms of the bonuses they provide, thus negating the need to fiddle with Level Adjustment. Merc Soldier Relatively easy conversion to any given martial class. Body Fixer and Cyber-Doc Basically a tech-based Cleric who uses technology to do the same thing magical healing can do. Operator A mechanic, which can covered by the proper application of skill points and feats by just about any class. Rogue Scholar and Rogue Scientist Again, more an application of skill points and feats than a full class application. Vagabond Commoner. Moving on. Wilderness Scout A Ranger type character, without the minor magic. So, any class that can apply skill points and feats to wilderness applications. Elemental Fusionist This is a strange mix of opposing elements that functions something like a specialist wizard. I'd call this one a prestige class with ability to cast spells from opposing elements being a prereq. Ley Line Walker A fairly standard wizard, other than the ley-line aspect, which is a unique aspect of the setting. Mystic A mingling of Wizard and Psion. Prestige Class. Shifter A summoning, teleportation and plane-shifting/dimensional travel oriented Sorcerer. Techno-Wizard A high-tech reflavoring of Eberron's Artificer, with quite a lot of item creation. Burster A psionic pyrokineticist prestige class type. Dog Boy A race based loosely on a Canine Moreau from D20 Modern. Mind Melter An amped up Psion. Psi-Stalker Another racial modification, I think. Probably a template that gives the base race the psionic subtype and some "psychic vampire" style abilities. Dragon Hatchling Racial progression for a dragon using Rifts dragon fluff so as to avoid the "D&Disms" of the chromatic and metallic dragons. Just some brainstorming thoughts. Feel free to tear apart, analyze, expand upon or otherwise mangle. ;)
#10 Wolfen_Fenrison May 29, 2008 21:00:00	i think NatanaX and crazy_monkey1956 make good points, in my game i use all the d20 modern books, call of cthulhu d20, green ronin's players companions (modern and future), and monte cook's world if darkness in one game. and if you use the monster classes from savage species, libris mortis, and planar handbook, that will cover most of your RCCs. later i will try make a list.
#11 drowbattlemind May 30, 2008 1:39:29	I considered it (a full D20 Modern conversion, that is), then decided that it would be easier to keep the classes mostly as is and simply drop the overly-complicated saves, tacked-on percentile skills, and streamline the combat by simply adopting the basic D20 mechanic. I even posted the resulting House Rules on my blog, which I'll reprint here for ease: 1) Count out how many attacks you can have each round, and get a different colored D20 for each one. Roll ’em all, write down what the total of each was, and then roll and write down the damage. When the GM asks, give them the attack total, if he says it hit, apply the damage. If not, scratch it off the paper. 2) Since Palladium combat is heavy on Dodges and Parries, let’s steal an idea from Mongoose Publishing’s Conan RPG, and make them static defenses instead of time-wasting contested rolls. Take your Physical Prowess bonus (if any) and add that to your Parry bonus, then add 10 to that for your Parry Defense. For your Dodge Defense, do the same, except add in your Dodge bonus, not your Parry bonus. 3) Auto-Dodge is special, only characters with enhanced reflexes (like Cyber-Knights, Juicers, Crazies, and some Borgs) have an Auto-Dodge ability. In standard Palladium combat, you can only make as many normal Dodges as you have attacks to sacrifice, while an Auto-Dodge is free. To keep the “specialness” of Auto-Dodge, lets reverse that, while remembering that only certain special characters get this ability. If an attack defeats your normal (passive) Dodge or Parry Defense, your Juicer can sacrifice one of his next combat attacks (take away one of those D20 dice from your pool) to try an Active dodge action. Next round, you’ve got one (or more) less dice to roll attacks with, but you’re still not helpless, because you’ve still got your Parry Defense and Dodge Defense to protect you (and if you’re one of those OCC’s I mentioned, your Parry And Dodge Defenses can get ridiculously high anyway, so don’t sweat it.) BAB, Saves, and skills would be applied as per appropriateness per class (in other words, as per the closest D&D or D20 Modern analogue), and/or DM preference, HOWEVER, you'll note that I kept the basic Hand-to-Hand skills as the conversion default (see above.) Mega-Damage could be dropped or kept as per individual GM & gaming group's preference Oh, and crazy_monkey1956, I *DO* like what I see from your posts, this post is just how I did it in order to save time.
#12 kronos182 May 30, 2008 13:35:39	I agree with crazy_monkey's break down of the OCCs. Although, I think cybernetics will need an overhaul for sure.. Although I don't have the cyberscape book myself, so I'm not sure how much better it is than the ones in D20 Future or Future Tech. Also robots and mecha will need to be reworked. I suggest Cyber-Dave's work on those, or one of the others that have been made in the future forums. As for the Glitterboy/Robot Pilot OCCs.. Besides the use of feats and talents and pilot skill, perhaps an advanced class like the Mecha Jockey but only a little more robust maybe? For those truly dedicated to mecha combat. Also power armour might use some work, which again, there are various rules floating around for. Man, to play Rifts again would be great. I've got a stack of the books, pretty much all of the Siege on Tolkeen (only missing one book), Atlantis, Free Quebec, whole bunch of others.
#13 crazy_monkey May 30, 2008 17:01:24	I'm planning on running a Rifts Play by Post game in the Play-by-Post Haven forum at some point in the near future. If there's enough interest, I may try to "d20-ize" it and run it that way.
#14 natanax Jun 03, 2008 8:57:02	Kind of Off-Topic but Cyber-Dave's rules work keeps getting referenced, where do you find it?
#15 nadaka Jun 03, 2008 15:57:28	Note: WotC and Paladium have an agreement forbidding any and all discussion of Paladium material on these boards. Paladium is well known for suing at the drop of a hat for any percieved violation of IP or defamation/negative feedback. As a result we are not allowed to discuss anything Paladium related, or even mention them at all.
#16 gamileo Jun 04, 2008 19:00:48	So... Palladium is against free speech? I for one think it would be a good market choice for Palladium to make at least one book stating how a conversion could be made whilst referencing their material. I have said this before, but if you get the one book, tells you how to convert, then says that the occ's in these other books could be this, but doesn't give you lots of detail on them, you would be encouraged to buy the other books. Seems like a good investment with just one book.
#17 hadrean69 Dec 10, 2011 11:25:29	I have been converting rifts for gaming use for many years. even way back when d&d was still with tsr. The thing is, Rifts is expansive and not meant to be balanced. the core philosophy seems to be that in a "rifts" world characters are not created equal, nor advance equal. the opposit seems to be true of the d20 direction. I like that Rifts Philosophy. It makes that world seem more dangerous, more instant death. in a word exciting. THe D20 modern rules have been extremly useful and infact make an eccelent base. however, it does take away some of that "unbalanced" feel. I also use The Star Wars Saga edition rules and Call of Cathull (d20). the saga rules incorperate a better system of wounds and conditions, that take a character away from the "video game" style of hitpoints. and allows for instant death under the right circumstances. Call of cathull is by far a good example of how easy the d20 rules are adaptable to a darker, more dangerous game. I also like how the characters start off with a basic "offensive or deffensive" build, wich is built appon threw experience (no classes) Some like the titles of all the classes, so if that is what ya like go with it. simply put if a character suddenly is rebuilt with bionics or drinks the blood of dragons and changes forever into somthing of a class then so be it. unfortunatly the 4th edition d20 rulse are geared to mesh with trading card games(cash cow for wizards) and video games(balanced class builds). Good buisness approach by wizards, but not the best for everyone. Lastly, copyright laws make a true conversion completely out of the question unless both palladium and wizards colaborate(never gona happen). Best bet is to create a knock off setting or generic conversion(less is better when it comes to rules). as the years pass on the oppertunities will be there for true knock offs. look at how j.r.r tolkiens work has been used as a basis for  all kinds of fantasy games even rifts.