but as an attempt to have that pseudo-Modern it in the D&D 4e environment.
My goal with this spinoff of that project is to remove the inflated D&D use of the 4e mechanic and replace it with a standard scale Modern use of the mechanic.
What does that mean?
Primarily it means attacks wont do 3x or 5x (weapondamage) but just (weapon)+X, and folks wont have inflated HP to deal with those inflated damages. If we use Modern-ish HP, and have Modern-ish powers that do Modern-ish damages... it will be pretty Modern-like in a game using the 4e Powers (precursor to D&D 5e Trading Card Only Game?) system.
Base concepts are:
Starting HP is a % of CON score by class,
Modern classes replace D&D classes
Modern Powers will replace D&D powers
Most activities will involve using a power 4e style, but the power will be Modern reasonable
... all without the inflated scale of D&D use of the 4e mechanic
I put together some notes and initial writeup in this PDF formated notes
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for comment and suggestion
particularly on the interface of making stuff like WeaponFocus and TWF powers (usable cards) vs feats. I dont have enough experience using 4e to get it right on the first try.
Powers Concept
Many of the Powers in Modern4skin are available to all classes. This cross classing allows greater differential and customizing, as experienced Modern players have come to appreciate. So the Modern4skin class power lists are similar to the Bonus Feat lists in Modern, common powers but with special availability for that class.
Lets take the TWF system for a testdrive.
The d20Modern way is to have Combat rules that govern the multiple attacks and penalties of fighting with two weapons. Those penalties could be offset by Feat and choice of weapons. To make this activity available to all with the full penalties would require adding another 4e mechanic Basic Attack power along side the standard 4e basic Melee and Ranged attack powers.
So We have everyone able to take unskilled 2 weapon attacks, now lets add the TWF Feat. Like in d20Modern, the Modern4skin TWF Feat will just help offsett the penalties already in the new basic attack power TWA. Lets make it a nice +2 to both attacks.
There, easypeasy.
Now we just make some smufilicious powers to exploit the two weapon system. We put some Encounter and Daily exploits in the General list and say they are in the Fast Class bonus list.... whatever we make that means later on in the Classes section. I have no idea what the level progression is for getting new Encounter powers, so we'll fix that before we print.
Lets take the TWF system for a testdrive.
The d20Modern way is to have Combat rules that govern the multiple attacks and penalties of fighting with two weapons. Those penalties could be offset by Feat and choice of weapons. To make this activity available to all with the full penalties would require adding another 4e mechanic Basic Attack power along side the standard 4e basic Melee and Ranged attack powers.
So We have everyone able to take unskilled 2 weapon attacks, now lets add the TWF Feat. Like in d20Modern, the Modern4skin TWF Feat will just help offsett the penalties already in the new basic attack power TWA. Lets make it a nice +2 to both attacks.
There, easypeasy.
Now we just make some smufilicious powers to exploit the two weapon system. We put some Encounter and Daily exploits in the General list and say they are in the Fast Class bonus list.... whatever we make that means later on in the Classes section. I have no idea what the level progression is for getting new Encounter powers, so we'll fix that before we print.
So in the interest of helping you figure out who this project is for, so you can design mechanics that will appeal to that crowd of people, I am going to ask a simple question: what do you hope to achieve with these changes? I am not talking about your "base concept" (which describes what mechanics you are hoping to implement), I am talking about what is the result you hope to achieve from your mechanics? What about d20 Modern bothers you the way it is, in terms of the core system? What about the inner working of d20 Modern do you feel just doesn't work, and needs to be fixed?
In any case, these are the changes I have seen you make that I like/don't like:
I like the fact that all classes have less healing surges. I don't really think that a more realistic version of the 4e system needs to allow people to be healed as many times per day as 4e allows.
I hate your hit point rules. It causes different characters to have drastically different hit point values, and that will make your system hard to properly balance. The end result will be that some classes will be far worse then other classes. The higher level characters become, the more evident this will become. The variability between hit point gain per level needs to be reduced drastically for this to have any hope of working well. Indeed, you state that your goal is to stop the "hit point inflation of 4e," but in short order, within a few levels, your system will result in some characters having more hit points than 4e characters do. It really only seems to stop "4e inflation of hit points" at first level (which ironically enough is the only place where 4e has inflated hit points). Your system (ironically) then goes ahead an inflates hit points worse at later levels (for some classes. Your weaker classes will gain hit points at about the same rate as traditional 4e classes). Your hit point system also leaves Con as one of the most important stats, and forces all classes to have a high Con score to compete. I think that is problematic.
Things I don't have an opinion on one way or another:
Your changes to powers. I don't think the multiplication value weapon powers is a bad mechanic. But I don't think your change is a bad mechanic either. It could work, especially with the reduction in healing surges. However, if you leave your hit point rules the way they are, its going to result in higher level characters having a stupidly high level of tanking capability. Your inflated higher level hit points combined with your reduced high level damage output will result in the same problem that I personally feel d20 Modern core suffered from: low level characters that are easy to drop compared to high level characters that are far tougher then tanks.
Things I am confused on:
You keep to the 1/2 level mechanic, but you have powers that are listed as adding a characters level bonus to hit? Is this intentional? If so its a problem. It will translate as powers which hit automatically in 4e mechanics... characters will gain only 1/2 their level as a bonus to defenses, but then add their full level to hit. Characters will never miss...
Skills. What does training 2 (athletics) mean? Athletics is one skill... how does one train in it twice? Are you keeping the broken down d20 Modern skill list? If so, I would allow people to train in a lot more skills. I always felt that characters could train in far to few in d20 Modern core. Then again, if characters gain 1/2 their level to all skill checks, then I guess its not too big a deal.
Roles. You say you want to forget about them, but then in your class write up they are included. Do you want to forget about them or not?
Less healing surges is a great idea, but that's just for healing. If memory serves, ain't there powers that require the expenditure of a healing surge for an effect? If so, then a moderate number of surges is necessary to be able to use those powers/effects.
Using percentages of a CON score for hit points is rather abstract, especially since not everyone is going to have the same CON. If you want to keep them low HP, then leaving the way HP is done from D20M would be fine. The highest you're gonna have (using RAW) is 14 for a Tough Hero, and that assumes the player managed to get an 18. The 4E way looks to be a ramped up version of this anyway (apparently WotC thinks players with low HP can't survive 1st level).
Cyber-Dave, perhaps the powers that grant a bonus based on level round down the half level so that for 2 levels the strength of the power is essentially the same. The only real power difference for a power is an increase every two levels, instead of each level.
As far as 4E stuff goes, I don't like the base class -> Paragon Path -> Epic Destiny bit, but it's just expanded from D20M anyway (Base class -> Advanced Class -> Prestige Class)
I like the D20M skill list as it is, and adding the Trained or Un-Trained mechanic sounds like a good move.
Y'know, now that I really look at it, 4E took several things from D20 Modern and not 3.x.
If someone takes a stab at the powers, I might do a write up for classes, assuming I can get my nose out of the D20 Mecha Compendium Deluxe Edition manual I got for Christmas. >.>
Less healing surges is a great idea, but that's just for healing. If memory serves, ain't there powers that require the expenditure of a healing surge for an effect? If so, then a moderate number of surges is necessary to be able to use those powers/effects.
All healing powers require healing surges in 4e. A player can spend 1 healing surge per fight via a "second wind." Otherwise, a player can not spend their own healing surges. Healing surges are designed to put a hard cap on the number of times a character can be healed. Any time someone uses any sort of ability to heal you, what they are actually doing is allowing you to use one of your healing surges. Now, in 4e you can spend your healing surges in between fights to heal yourself back up to full. To be honest, I don't like that mechanic... at least not in a more gritty/modern game. Perhaps characters should only refresh their second wind with a rest, and in order to use healing surges to heal themselves someone needs to use the healing skill on them? I don't know. Anyway... I hope that answers your question.
If you want to keep them low HP, then leaving the way HP is done from D20M would be fine.
Except, keeping with d20M HP results in higher HP then the 4e rules after a few levels. I honestly don't understand people who complain about to much HP in 4e, but then say they want to use the 3e HP gain mechanic. All it does is reduce your HP at 1st level, and then drastically increase your HP within a few level. Personally, I prefer the more HP at 1st level, but less HP at higher levels, method of 4e.
Cyber-Dave, perhaps the powers that grant a bonus based on level round down the half level so that for 2 levels the strength of the power is essentially the same. The only real power difference for a power is an increase every two levels, instead of each level.
This doesn't make any sense to me... I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that the difference between 1/2 level and full level is not that big? Because, its huge. By level 10, its the difference between +10 or +5. If classes gain defense bonuses equal to 1/2 their level, but then gain a bonus to hit equal to their level, the result will be that characters never miss their opponents. May as well throw out the rolling to hit mechanic totally and just get right to the rolling of damage on each attack.
All healing powers require healing surges in 4e. A player can spend 1 healing surge per fight via a "second wind." Otherwise, a player can not spend their own healing surges. Healing surges are designed to put a hard cap on the number of times a character can be healed. Any time someone uses any sort of ability to heal you, what they are actually doing is allowing you to use one of your healing surges. Now, in 4e you can spend your healing surges in between fights to heal yourself back up to full. To be honest, I don't like that mechanic... at least not in a more gritty/modern game. Perhaps characters should only refresh their second wind with a rest, and in order to use healing surges to heal themselves someone needs to use the healing skill on them? I don't know. Anyway... I hope that answers your question.
It does. I couldn't remember exactly how they interacted (healing surges and powers). For a gritty/modern game, I could see spending one healing surge with a first aid kit and a heal check, but not just by wanting to use one.
Except, keeping with d20M HP results in higher HP then the 4e rules after a few levels. I honestly don't understand people who complain about to much HP in 4e, but then say they want to use the 3e HP gain mechanic. All it does is reduce your HP at 1st level, and then drastically increase your HP within a few level. Personally, I prefer the more HP at 1st level, but less HP at higher levels, method of 4e.
I see what you mean. There's got to be a way to have a low/decent bit of HP at 1st level without it resulting in an overage of HP later on.
This doesn't make any sense to me... I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that the difference between 1/2 level and full level is not that big? Because, its huge. By level 10, its the difference between +10 or +5. If classes gain defense bonuses equal to 1/2 their level, but then gain a bonus to hit equal to their level, the result will be that characters never miss their opponents. May as well throw out the rolling to hit mechanic totally and just get right to the rolling of damage on each attack.
I don't know what I was thinking with that comment. Doing a lot of thinking while being up 26+ hours can lead to some... inconsistencies.
*rereads what I said*
I may have been thinking of cross-class skill ranks instead of character levels. >.>
"Less healing surges is a great idea, but that's just for healing. If memory serves, ain't there powers that require the expenditure of a healing surge for an effect? If so, then a moderate number of surges is necessary to be able to use those powers/effects"
Yes, if we partially implemented Modern into an environment full of D&D items.
However, if we understand that the whole D&D use of the 4e mechanic is being replaced, then those 17[w] and 'Expend Healing surge to shoot laser death beams from your eyes' kind of D&D powers wont be there anymore. Modern4skin wont have those, it will have others stuff geared toward and scaled to Modern.
Using percentages of a CON score for hit points is rather abstract, especially since not everyone is going to have the same CON. If you want to keep them low HP, then leaving the way HP is done from D20M would be fine. The highest you're gonna have (using RAW) is 14 for a Tough Hero
I was going for your HP are more an aspect of how you're built, and less on what you do. But I did want to keep the feel that Toughs will be tougher. If we do use the X% CON, perhaps it should be 50/75/100% for Smarts/Others/Toughs... most guys will get like 8, toughs more and smarts less.
Of course, the classic Modern hit dice method will still be valid too in this project, so that option is still open... nothing cast in stone yet.
As far as 4E stuff goes, I don't like the base class -> Paragon Path -> Epic Destiny bit, but it's just expanded from D20M anyway (Base class -> Advanced Class -> Prestige Class)
Close. Modern can easily be Base/Base/Adv/Base too.
Lets not think of it as removing the Paragon stuff,
but that not a single Paragon level will exist in any of the Modern4skin classes, forcing the multiclass just like ... oh, lookit that, just like Modern. So sure, there is still the system of Paragons, just not any class that has them
.If someone takes a stab at the powers, I might do a write up for classes
There is the trick. We need to draw up a list of Modern Feats & Abilities, and then sort that into what stays a feat and what becomes a playable power card. I took a quick look at 4e, I see powers fluffed as 2 weapon and yet I still see TWF as a feat? Cleave as a power? It is gonna take a list to figure that out.
Fortunately, like d20Modern, we dont have to integrate a magic system at the same time. First we get guys shooting at eachother with TCG powers, then we can paint some magic on it.
Thanx for the comments so far Shinobi
If you don't mind me asking, who do you want to be the target audience for this project? You have made a number of statements that will heavily insult the sensibilities of anyone who likes 4e, so your target audience is not those who like 4e. Meanwhile, you make a number of changes that model the game in a 4e manner (while failing to capture the beneficial mechanics 4e captured), so I don't see a heavily pro 3e audience getting anything from this project. You seem to have no target audience...
You pretty much captured it: For guys that dont like certain issues with 4e, yet are Gamers that have the cognative prowess to play different systems. One of the very very common complaints is the powercreep inflation, so, remove that and the system becomes less undesirable. Keep removing what folks dont like... and soon you have something they will like.
Who is the target for this?
Folks that dont like 4e for specific reasons, rather than unrational hate of 4e. If we identify what folks dont like, and change that, they wont dislike it as much. In particular, here in the Modern forum we have a lot of guys that play d20Modern, and a Modern use of 4e mechanics might appeal more if there was less drastic change to the feel.
You are correct,
I do play light to the many and obvious faults flaws and horrid aspects of D&D 4e compared to d20Modern here in the d20Modern forum. That is kinda why I am doingit in the Modern forum. I am not trolling the D&D 4e forum, I am trying to avoid upsetting the fanboys by doing a constructive Modern project in the Modern forum. It is almost working.
What about d20 Modern bothers you the way it is, in terms of the core system? What about the inner working of d20 Modern do you feel just doesn't work, and needs to be fixed?
I have spent years here saying just that. No need to go there.
This is not about a need to fix d20 Modern, but an option to play another game. Sometimes folks play games other than the same thing week after week, lots of D&D guys have played Warhammer, dont mean they think D&D needs to get shut down. d20Modern is a thinking game, lets see Modern theme in the 4eTCG style of play.... but without the inflation.
I hate your hit point rules. It causes different characters to have drastically different hit point values,
classic d4Mage vs d12 Barbarian, how close are they at 4th level? 10 vs 28?
And the wimpitude or studlyness of a persons physique is only 1/2 to 1/4 of what job they have in regards to taking club upside the head?
Hows this in relation to d20Modern:
Using (50-100%CON), Smarts will have 1/2 the HP of Toughs.
Using d20 Modern, Smarts have 1d6 vs 1d12.
d20 D&D had 1d4 vs 1d12 classes, Modern had 1d6 vs 1d12, and a % system will have a similar 1:3 or 1:2 spread across class HP .
I gotta go rope an attic for exterior lights,
I'll continue this later
I'll crush your d20
i may not be a VCL anymore,but i still i carry some weight around here,so play nice or else*...
I'll crush your d20
"VCL" ??
Anywho, this thread is actually rather tame compared to the other threads like this that have popped up.
>.>
You are correct,
I do play light to the many and subjective faults flaws and horrid aspects that I perceive, sometimes in the face of logic to the contrary, in D&D 4e compared to d20Modern here in the d20Modern forum. That is kinda why I am doingit in the Modern forum. I am not trolling the D&D 4e forum, I am trying to avoid upsetting the fanboys by doing a constructive Modern project in the Modern forum. It is almost working.
I fixed that statement for you. Repeatedly stating that 4e inflates hit points does not make it obvious, especially when it can and has been pointed out that mathematically, at higher levels, 4e characters have less hit points then the characters of d20 Modern or 3e. Just because you believe something does not make it obvious, or anything other then a subjective opinion. Now this statement has a point, and its not trolling. There are posters who might like to see something similar to what you suggest, and might be willing to help. These posters also might enjoy 4e. If you keep making such hostile comments about the edition, however, statements which by extension imply something about those who enjoy the system, those posters will simply write you and this thread off and won't want to help with the project... all that will be left will be those who like the 3e system of doing things. However, most of those posters don't want ANYTHING to do with 4e. They don't like powers based on the very fact that they ARE powers. So, the very nature of this project ostracizes those posters and will keep them away. So, in the interest of more posters wanting to work on this, perhaps you could stop using loaded statements designed to do little more then offend those who enjoy 4e and consider it to be a high quality RPG? I would consider it a personal favor. Of course, if you don't want my help, and you think that I am incapable of writing high quality rules written from a variety of perspectives on gaming, I suppose I can just leave your thread. That is fair. It is your thread. But seeing as you have helped me direct my projects in the past, which I believe has led to some great results, I sort of wanted to return the favor... you know, if you can stop insulting a game I really like every time you post.
d20Modern is a thinking game, lets see Modern theme in the 4eTCG style of play.... but without the inflation.
What specific areas of 4e do you feel are inflated? I know you want to avoid inflating hit points at first level. You also obviously want to avoid multiplication style weapon damage. And it seems that you don't like too many healing surges. Any other areas that you feel are "inflated"? (I ask so I can align my suggestions to aid the project.)
classic d4Mage vs d12 Barbarian, how close are they at 4th level? 10 vs 28?And the wimpitude or studlyness of a persons physique is only 1/2 to 1/4 of what job they have in regards to taking club upside the head?
Well, I personally believe that the vast differential between hit points of various characters in 3e was a very problematic element of the game. I was happy to see things brought a little more in line with 4e. This is because I believe that the numeric value that stops your character from dieing and disappearing from the game is an important element of any character. If some characters have very low hit points compared to others, the message you are sending those characters is that they should avoid participating in combat period. Is that your goal? If not, what is your goal with such a disparity?
Hows this in relation to d20Modern:
Using (50-100%CON), Smarts will have 1/2 the HP of Toughs.
Using d20 Modern, Smarts have 1d6 vs 1d12.
d20 D&D had 1d4 vs 1d12 classes, Modern had 1d6 vs 1d12, and a % system will have a similar 1:3 or 1:2 spread across class HP .
If you want to stick to a 1:3 or 1:2 spread, fair enough. I personally prefer having characters have an HP value that is closer together across the board, but then giving the "tougher" characters more healing surges/a better ability to be healed during combat. I just find the result more "realistic"/"narrativaly intuitive" (whatever those statements actually mean :P). If you don't, and you prefer to keep the hit points in the hit point pools and not in the potential healing capability, fair enough. Lets keep to a 1:3/1:2 spread. But I see an additional problem in the manner in which you have created that spread... it will cause characters to gain a lot more hit points per level, in ratio to their starting hit points, then 4e or 3e does. Well, then 3e does without factoring in hit points gained per level from con. Its about the same as 3e with hit points gained from con factored in, and you seem to be trying to remove "hit points gained from con" (as in your system you no longer add hit points based on a constitution score). The result will be that you actually inflate hit points at high levels. Your proposed method will result in many characters with more hit points at higher levels then 4e characters. Meanwhile, because you don't like times[w] powers (which is fine. Like I said, I think your version of powers will work just as well), your characters damage output is a lot lower then 4e. That, in and of itself, is not a problem. But combined with your hit point changes, the "taking a tank shell to the chest and surviving at high levels" problem of d20 Modern core persists. It will also leave Con as a drastically important stat for all characters... I don't know if that is a problem for you, but I sort of find it problematic. I don't like to penalize characters for wanting to play the frail CSI. A Con score should not be something that all character shave to have as a decently high stat. If you think they should, that is fine. I just wanted to bring this point up in case you feel it has merit.
So if I may make a suggestion, base the hit points gained per level of a hit die value instead of the constitution score. If you want to get rid of the variability of rolling hit dice (like 4e did), instead have characters automatically gain an average value from a rolled hit die rounded up. So:
d6 grants 4 hit points per level.
d8 grants 5 it points per level.
d10 grants 6 hit points per level.
d12 grants 7 hit points per level.
To be honest, I would also suggest that you base the number of base healing surges on hit die as well... so, lets say something like this:
d6 grants 1 healing surge + your constitution modifier
d8 grants 2 healing surges + your constitution modifier
d10 grants 3 surges + your constitution modifier
d12 grants 4 healing surges + your constitution modifier
For first level, perhaps all characters can gain their constitution score + 1/2 the amount of hit points that a character would normally gain per level. So, at first level, previous hit die characters would gain the following quantity of hit points at 1st level:
d6 grants Con score + 2 hit points at 1st level.
d8 grants Con score + 3 hit points at 1st level.
d10 grants Con score + 4 hit points at 1st level.
d12 grants Con score + 5 hit points at 1st level.
That should be a nice middle ground between our two positions. It should capture the 1:2 max variability between two characters hit points. It should slow down the rate of hit points gained at high levels, as constitution modifiers will not be added to the hit points gained per level. It should reduce the amount of hit points gained at first level in comparison to 4e, which will work better with your style weapon powers. I think my proposition SHOULD make everyone happy, no? What do you think?
Making a big General list for standard d20Modern type multiclassing stuff,
and we'll just add fluff feelgood Modern-ish stuff to fill in advancing levels.
ver 0.b.03 pdf, page 2 is new stuff... heres the gist of it:
[INDENT]Many of the Powers in Modern4skin are available to all classes. This cross classing allows greater differential and customizing, as experienced Modern players have come to appreciate. So the Modern4skin class power lists are similar to the Bonus Feat lists in Modern, common powers but with special availability for that class.
Lets take the TWF system for a testdrive.
The d20Modern way is to have Combat rules that govern the multiple attacks and penalties of fighting with two weapons. Those penalties could be offset by Feat and choice of weapons. To make this activity available to all with the full penalties would require adding another 4e mechanic Basic Attack power along side the standard 4e basic Melee and Ranged attack powers.
So We have everyone able to take unskilled 2 weapon attacks, now lets add the TWF Feat. Like in d20Modern, the Modern4skin TWF Feat will just help offsett the penalties already in the new basic attack power TWA. Lets make it a nice +2 to both attacks.
There, easypeasy.
Now we just make some smufilicious powers to exploit the two weapon system. We put some Encounter and Daily exploits in the General list and say they are in the Fast Class bonus list.... whatever we make that means later on in the Classes section. I have no idea what the level progression is for getting new Encounter powers, so we'll fix that before we print.[/INDENT]
Lets see if these format worth a hoot
ver 0.b.04 pdf pages 2&3
[indent]Feats
Due to the nature of 4e standard level advancement yielding Powers in far greater numbers than feats, we can either translate many feat activities into Powers, or place them as Class Abilities. Both have disadvantages.
As Powers, the # per Time restrictions above 1st level make many activities seem illogical: Why would someone be able to Double Tap only once per encounter? The feat Double Tap would not make a good Power, other than an At Will, but those At Wills are only at 1st level in the level advancement scheme.
As a Class Ability, that breeds the class role dependancy back into the system we are trying to make in a Modern multiclass style. Unless the class ability is Class Bonus Feat list picks, that DoubleTap Feat could be on a few class lists. In this light, the Bonus Feat list use of class abilities could have the class level restriction system tailored to each class.
Basic Powers
The standard for 4e mechanic is to have 2 basic attack powers, At Will 1st level Standard Action, available to all. Basic Melee Attack and Basic Ranged Attack. Due to the more permissive combat concepts of Modern, we will have to define more basic attacks to be the foundation on which Feats and Abilities can use At Will.
In the green text concept discussion we talked about how the basic attacks interact with Feats & Powers, and the following Basic Power List will demonstrate that. We also can list Feats and Abilities that use these At Will basic attacks.
A sample of activity progression in powers follows to the right
[/indent]
well, obviously the examples to the right aint here due to the limited formatting available in post
but if the examples were here, they'd be to the right
Just made a first pass at dividing up the d20Modern feats what becomes a Power and what stays a Feat. The list is on pg4 of the pdf.
I have these up in the PDF , page5.
Continuing with our examination of TWF-
we have a Basic attack power that everyone can TWF butr is bad at it,
offest by taking the TWF Feat to reduce the penalties,
we have both ranged and melee 2 Weapon powers to take as improments on the standard TWF attack- Improved(3rd) and Advanced(7th) encounter powers for TWF progression
The following powers progression assumes the Modern4skin TWF Feat grants +2 to all attacks with 2 weapons.
Advanced TWF tree-
Improved TWF Attack 3
[i]Your prowess with 2 weapons is legendary, you can take
3 shots where others take 2
Encounter Martial, Melee Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Requirement: Holding two melee weapons, TWF Feat
Target: Upto 3 Creatures
Attack: Str -2 vs AC 1st attack
...... Str -4 vs AC 2nd attack
...... Str -6 vs AC 3rd attack
Hit: [w] + Str, [w] + 1⁄2 Str
Special: With TWF feat penalties are reduced by 2 each.
If second weapon is not Offhand, each attack is at another -2
Advanced TWF Attack 6
Your prowess with 2 weapons is legendary, you can take
3 shots where others take 2
Encounter Martial, Melee Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Requirement: Holding two melee weapons, Imp TWF power
Target: Upto 4Creatures
Attack: Str -4 vs AC 1st attack
..... Str -6 vs AC 2nd attack
..... Str -8 vs AC 3rd attack
..... Str -10 vc AC 4th attack
Hit: [w] + Str, [w] + 1⁄2 Str
Special: With TWF feat penalties are reduced by 2 each.
If second weapon is not Offhand, each attack is at another -2
Improved Ranged TWF Attack 3
Your prowess with 2 weapons is legendary, you can take
3 shots where others take 2
Encounter Martial, Ranged Weapon
Standard Action Ranged Weapon
Requirement: Holding two Ranged weapons, TWF Feat
Target: Upto 3 Creatures
Attack: Dex -2 vs AC 1st attack
..... Dex -4 vs AC 2nd attack
..... Dex -6 vs AC 3rd attack
Hit: [w] + Str, [w] + 1⁄2 Str
Special: With TWF feat penalties are reduced by 2 each.
If second weapon is not Offhand, each attack is at another -2
Advanced Ranged TWF Attack 6
Your prowess with 2 weapons is legendary, you can take
4 shots where others take 2
Encounter Martial, Ranged Weapon
Standard Action Ranged Weapon
Requirement: Holding two Ranged weapons, Imp Ranged TWF power
Target: Upto 4Creatures
Attack: Dex -4 vs AC 1st attack
.... Dex -6 vs AC 2nd attack
.... Dex -8 vs AC 3rd attack
.... Dex -10 vc AC 4th attack
Hit: [w] + Str, [w] + 1⁄2 Str
Special: With TWF feat penalties are reduced by 2 each.
If second weapon is not Offhand, each attack is at another -2
For example:
Wielding two Automatic weapons increases the reflex save DC's for autofire.
Wielding two Semiauto weapons allows a character to perform a burstfire or autofire attack using the damage from the lesser weapon.
Wielding a melee weapon and a ranged weapon allows you to fire the ranged weapon without provoking an attack of opportunity from adjacent opponents (but not affecting AoO from opponents with reach).
Wielding two melee weapons (and taking the TWF penalty on your primary weapon) allows you to increase the defensive fighting AC bonus by 2
Now rather than simply requiring two weapons for executing certain powers, you could have feats that allows TWF to modify the powers or grant defensive abilities while using a power. I think Modern is about diversifying a character's abilities rather than specializing them.
On another note, we need more skills. While I liked the merging of closely related skills like Hide and Move Silently, I feel that the skill list just shouldn't be so short. There is opportunity for more technology related skills.
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In the Powers system, you can do cool stuff, but only occassionally. So the drawback of making a Twin Saturation Autofire (DC boost) power is the infrequency it gets to be used.
Even as an Encounter it seems like if is getting shelfed more than it deserves... I would use that all dy long: Stick with what works / Its hard to argue with results.
But hey, in a game of limited use powers, you get limits on uses.
Go figure.
Lets include those powers in some form or another,
as well as keeping the basic extra attack method... more options
Skils
yeah, the skills are probably going to be expanded and a decent number of skill points in classes. I'm not fond of the +5 Hide (Yes/No) 4e mechanic, but that is the skill mechanic in 4e and we are trying to keep as much usable 4e mechanics as we can.
We may decide to ditch the +5(yes/No) and go back to Ranks... but lets not worry too much about Skills yet.
• Characters get a bonus to skill checks with skills in which the character is considered adept equal to ½ their class level (rounded down).
• Characters are automatically considered to be adept in any skill in their skill themes and any skills in which they are considered to be trained.
Note: Skill themes has no direct translation to d20 Modern, but I think skill lists would be fairly similar in mechanic.
• Characters gain a +2 bonus to skill checks to use any skills in their skill themes.
Note: I am not sure how this rule would translate to d20 Modern. Something in the game would have to give characters another +2 bonus for the system to work well, but I don't know what it should be.
• If a skill appears on both of a character’s chosen skill themes, a character still only gets a +2 bonus to use that skill. However, the character also gets this skill as a bonus trained skill.
Note: I am not sure how this rule would translate to d20 Modern.
• At first level a character chooses a number of trained skills equal to their starting skill points in the RAW. At every even level a character may choose another trained skill. When choosing trained skills a character may instead pick a skill that is already trained, and gain skill focus in that skill in the place of gaining another trained skill. When choosing trained skills a character may instead choose to pick two extra skills in which a character is then considered to be adept in the place of gaining another trained skill. Trained skills, adept skills, or skill focus, may only be chosen from a character’s “focus skill list” for that level. This applies even to such abilities that are gained from feats, or class abilities.
• Being trained in a skill grants you a +1 to use the skill at 1st level, a +2 at 5th level, a +3 at 10th level, a +4 at 15th level, and a +5 at 20th level.
• Skill focus grants a +3 bonus to use a skill, and can only be taken in a skill that a character is already trained in.
• Characters gain a temporary +1 bonus to any skills found on their “focus skill list”.
Note: There is no direct translation to a focus skill list in d20 Modern, but I think skills chosen from a "profession" would work fairly well in this area.
• The “skilled” feat grants a character the choice of either one bonus trained skill, or two extra skills in which a character is considered to be adept.
Anyways, you obviously don't have to use it, but if you don't like 4e skill system it might be more to your liking. Also, please note, this system was designed to work with a 3e skill list. Using this with a 4e skill list would break the mechanic. The speed of skills gained is designed to mesh with a much larger skill list.
Anyways, hopefully you will take this idea as what it is backstabbist (an olive branch.)
I made a couple 3rd level Powers for the twf autofire idea-
Twin Saturation Autofire
Twin Concetration Autofire
They're now on page 6 of the pdf, after the Basic powers and example of TWF feat to powers conversion.