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Different license restrictions.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kcn
Aug 14, 2008 1:14:43 My friends have been asking me to run some d20 again but lately I havent had much time. I have however been looking at some of my old stuff and newer materials and some questions have came up in the past with my players about license restrictions. For example (or many examples for that matter) A player of mine complains how "IRL" there are no licenses required to purchase a standard semi automatic pistol yet the game requires a "+1" license, he argues that the game must have been written during a time of a gun ban era. Which is somewhat validated because in the past campaign book there were no license restrictions on weapons at a certain time era. Secondly, I had a player who was a demolitions/explosives player and has to pay a license on his demo kit, but when he went to purchase det cord multiple times, he complained about having the purchase a license every time he made the purchase. Now was I in the wrong to add the license restriction +2 every time he purchased det cord, and if not what is the reasoning or the logic that I tell my players behind license purchases and repurchasing licenses of things they've already bought.

I'm just looking to familiarize myself with these situations and now how to handle them appropriately and fairly during a campaign instead of saying, this is my interpretation of the rule and thats how it's going to be. Thanks in advance.
#2
nix4
Aug 14, 2008 10:13:52 Gun law varies by state. In Wisconsin you don't need a license, but you do have a 1 day waiting period for a rifle and 3 day waiting period for a handgun. In Illinois however, you have to get a phyiscal license and you need to have another permit to handle a gun at a gun show.

The way I handle licenses is to make them purchase them and they are valid to use for X amount of time. Beyond that they have to renew.

In my future d20 campaign they get all their gear through a Fixer who fronts materials for them. And on some worlds they dont have any restrictions.
#3
kcn
Aug 14, 2008 12:41:23 So is the license in D20 purchased everytime they purchase a handgun or the det cord, or should I just make them purchase a license from the beginning and just transfer it for every restricted item they buy. Also, how do the rules answer this question, im not exactly finding an answer.
#4
nix4
Aug 14, 2008 14:02:01 Well here is the SRD rules on the subject:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Equipment_Basics_%28MSRD%29#Restricted_Objects
#5
schmeelke
Aug 14, 2008 14:11:41 You must (to be legal) buy a license (DC 10 to 25) before buying any restricted equipment. After buying the license, you may buy any restricted equipment at that level or lower as normal (no increase in DC).

If you don't want to buy a license before buying restricted equipment (illegal), you must buy it (the equipment) on the black market, which costs more (increase of +1 to +4 to DC). This must be done each time you buy from the black market.
#6
ranger_reg
Aug 14, 2008 15:15:07
So is the license in D20 purchased everytime they purchase a handgun or the det cord, or should I just make them purchase a license from the beginning and just transfer it for every restricted item they buy. Also, how do the rules answer this question, im not exactly finding an answer.

You're gonna have to make a judgment call, Gamemaster.

If your game is set in Wisconsin, then don't add the license purchase to firearms.

That does beg a question, though. Can you legally possess a handgun (bought in Wisconsin without a license) in Illinios?
#7
nix4
Aug 14, 2008 20:10:24 Not to drag this out but my father lives in IL and hes got the license, I live in WI and don't. If I were to move to IL, I'd have to get the license and the guns which are registered under my SSN would be associated with my license.

If you have firearms in IL you have to have a license, if you are a resident of that state.

Thats all semantics anyway, dunno if you want that degree of realism in your game
#8
kcn
Aug 14, 2008 20:31:33 I appreciate the help but i dont feel that my question has yet been answered. The game could be set in a galaxy far far away for all im concerned, the question im asking is duplicate license I guess. If they buy a +1 license for a glock, does that license transfer to every other gun/explosive/ballistics that is rated as +1, or do they have to buy that license each and every time no matter what they buy...as far as the rules in the game are concerned.
#9
nix4
Aug 15, 2008 11:35:53 Well, I thought the link to the Modern d20 SRD and my previous posts were clear but I will give it another shot!

The RULES say that you have to BUY the license for each item purchased that requires that is restricted.

So, for example, Billy bob wants to buy a Beretta 92F (9mm autoloader), its Purchase DC is 16. The pistol is restricted Lic (+1).

So first Billy bob has to purchase the license: DC 10. He rolls a 15, he succeeds. He now is "Licensed", but he has to way 1 day for his papers to get in so he can buy his gun.

The next day Billy bob changes into his best coveralls and checks the mail hes got his license! NOW he can buy the gun.

Purchase DC: 16. He rolls 20. Hes the new owner of a gun.

After that his license turns to dust and the license faeries take the dust and snort it.

Billy bob would really want a shotgun because its more "his style". Well he needs to buy another license for that...rise and repeat.

Personally, what I do is they have to apply for the license once, and they keep it until I decide it expires. Having to buy a license for each purchase is unrealistic and cumbersome.

Hope that helps.
#10
kcn
Aug 15, 2008 11:47:57 Thank you, I may have misread something or over looked it, but thank you for clarifying it for me. That is essentially how I interpreted the rule I just wanted to be sure when it comes to dealing with PCs...when you have a PC disagree with that multiple license rule how do you handle it, justify it.
#11
nix4
Aug 15, 2008 11:53:13 I have a cage with a snake in it...with a sign that says "complaint department"...

In reality (and I've ran into this with rules that I myself didn't like (aka autofire), or rules that the players didn't like), so I listen to their complaints. Pretend to write stuff down, then think about it for a day.

Then at the next session I make a decision and if it sits with them and I feel its fair for my bad guys and them, it becomes a house rule.

I document the house rules, and update it and inform the players its now official. I hate wishy washy GMs, if you alter or make a rule...write it down and stick to it.
#12
kcn
Aug 15, 2008 12:35:30 I agree, but I like to be fair, I hate saying "I'm the GM and this is how it's going to be." Thus why I try to use the forums a lot and get an idea of how to handle things...GMing is fairly new to me, I've been a player for years but there is a huge difference between playing and GMing.
#13
nix4
Aug 15, 2008 13:31:50 Definately! I post allot of questions and material here for public flogging.

So ya, just let players know how the rules work, and if they dont like it say you will consider changing it. If you do, just set it in stone so they know what to expect and the key is that everyone is happy and has fun!

I enjoy writing allot and Modern d20/ Future d20 is so open ended that it gives me allot of freedom to write. Luckily I have a job that gives me the time to do it too.
#14
psininja
Aug 16, 2008 9:24:02 This was covered in Bullets Points, the one talking about the Wealth System. I will put the question and answer here.

Does a hero have to purchase a separate license for every single restricted item, or does one license cover every item of a given restriction level?

A single license covers every item on a given table that has a restriction level equal to or lower than the level of the license. For example, a license for a Beretta 92F (Licensed restriction level) also covers any additional items from Table 4-4 that have the Licensed restriction level. An AKM (Restricted restriction level) requires a higher-level license. A character who buys the license for an AKM, however, could then purchase any other item from Table 4-4 of Restricted or lower level without needing another license.

The items noted on Table 4-10: General Equipment are exceptions to this rule. Every item on this table is licensed separately, except items that are grouped together. For example, a black box and a demolition kit require separate licenses. However, a single license covers both pistol and rifle suppressors, since they're grouped together under the Suppressor heading.

One final note: The lock release gun and the lockpick set were supposed to be grouped together under the Lockpicks heading. Both of these items are covered by the same license

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kcn Aug 14, 2008 1:14:43	My friends have been asking me to run some d20 again but lately I havent had much time. I have however been looking at some of my old stuff and newer materials and some questions have came up in the past with my players about license restrictions. For example (or many examples for that matter) A player of mine complains how "IRL" there are no licenses required to purchase a standard semi automatic pistol yet the game requires a "+1" license, he argues that the game must have been written during a time of a gun ban era. Which is somewhat validated because in the past campaign book there were no license restrictions on weapons at a certain time era. Secondly, I had a player who was a demolitions/explosives player and has to pay a license on his demo kit, but when he went to purchase det cord multiple times, he complained about having the purchase a license every time he made the purchase. Now was I in the wrong to add the license restriction +2 every time he purchased det cord, and if not what is the reasoning or the logic that I tell my players behind license purchases and repurchasing licenses of things they've already bought. I'm just looking to familiarize myself with these situations and now how to handle them appropriately and fairly during a campaign instead of saying, this is my interpretation of the rule and thats how it's going to be. Thanks in advance.
#2 nix4 Aug 14, 2008 10:13:52	Gun law varies by state. In Wisconsin you don't need a license, but you do have a 1 day waiting period for a rifle and 3 day waiting period for a handgun. In Illinois however, you have to get a phyiscal license and you need to have another permit to handle a gun at a gun show. The way I handle licenses is to make them purchase them and they are valid to use for X amount of time. Beyond that they have to renew. In my future d20 campaign they get all their gear through a Fixer who fronts materials for them. And on some worlds they dont have any restrictions.
#3 kcn Aug 14, 2008 12:41:23	So is the license in D20 purchased everytime they purchase a handgun or the det cord, or should I just make them purchase a license from the beginning and just transfer it for every restricted item they buy. Also, how do the rules answer this question, im not exactly finding an answer.
#4 nix4 Aug 14, 2008 14:02:01	Well here is the SRD rules on the subject: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Equipment_Basics_%28MSRD%29#Restricted_Objects
#5 schmeelke Aug 14, 2008 14:11:41	You must (to be legal) buy a license (DC 10 to 25) before buying any restricted equipment. After buying the license, you may buy any restricted equipment at that level or lower as normal (no increase in DC). If you don't want to buy a license before buying restricted equipment (illegal), you must buy it (the equipment) on the black market, which costs more (increase of +1 to +4 to DC). This must be done each time you buy from the black market.
#6 ranger_reg Aug 14, 2008 15:15:07	So is the license in D20 purchased everytime they purchase a handgun or the det cord, or should I just make them purchase a license from the beginning and just transfer it for every restricted item they buy. Also, how do the rules answer this question, im not exactly finding an answer. You're gonna have to make a judgment call, Gamemaster. If your game is set in Wisconsin, then don't add the license purchase to firearms. That does beg a question, though. Can you legally possess a handgun (bought in Wisconsin without a license) in Illinios?
#7 nix4 Aug 14, 2008 20:10:24	Not to drag this out but my father lives in IL and hes got the license, I live in WI and don't. If I were to move to IL, I'd have to get the license and the guns which are registered under my SSN would be associated with my license. If you have firearms in IL you have to have a license, if you are a resident of that state. Thats all semantics anyway, dunno if you want that degree of realism in your game
#8 kcn Aug 14, 2008 20:31:33	I appreciate the help but i dont feel that my question has yet been answered. The game could be set in a galaxy far far away for all im concerned, the question im asking is duplicate license I guess. If they buy a +1 license for a glock, does that license transfer to every other gun/explosive/ballistics that is rated as +1, or do they have to buy that license each and every time no matter what they buy...as far as the rules in the game are concerned.
#9 nix4 Aug 15, 2008 11:35:53	Well, I thought the link to the Modern d20 SRD and my previous posts were clear but I will give it another shot! The RULES say that you have to BUY the license for each item purchased that requires that is restricted. So, for example, Billy bob wants to buy a Beretta 92F (9mm autoloader), its Purchase DC is 16. The pistol is restricted Lic (+1). So first Billy bob has to purchase the license: DC 10. He rolls a 15, he succeeds. He now is "Licensed", but he has to way 1 day for his papers to get in so he can buy his gun. The next day Billy bob changes into his best coveralls and checks the mail hes got his license! NOW he can buy the gun. Purchase DC: 16. He rolls 20. Hes the new owner of a gun. After that his license turns to dust and the license faeries take the dust and snort it. Billy bob would really want a shotgun because its more "his style". Well he needs to buy another license for that...rise and repeat. Personally, what I do is they have to apply for the license once, and they keep it until I decide it expires. Having to buy a license for each purchase is unrealistic and cumbersome. Hope that helps.
#10 kcn Aug 15, 2008 11:47:57	Thank you, I may have misread something or over looked it, but thank you for clarifying it for me. That is essentially how I interpreted the rule I just wanted to be sure when it comes to dealing with PCs...when you have a PC disagree with that multiple license rule how do you handle it, justify it.
#11 nix4 Aug 15, 2008 11:53:13	I have a cage with a snake in it...with a sign that says "complaint department"... In reality (and I've ran into this with rules that I myself didn't like (aka autofire), or rules that the players didn't like), so I listen to their complaints. Pretend to write stuff down, then think about it for a day. Then at the next session I make a decision and if it sits with them and I feel its fair for my bad guys and them, it becomes a house rule. I document the house rules, and update it and inform the players its now official. I hate wishy washy GMs, if you alter or make a rule...write it down and stick to it.
#12 kcn Aug 15, 2008 12:35:30	I agree, but I like to be fair, I hate saying "I'm the GM and this is how it's going to be." Thus why I try to use the forums a lot and get an idea of how to handle things...GMing is fairly new to me, I've been a player for years but there is a huge difference between playing and GMing.
#13 nix4 Aug 15, 2008 13:31:50	Definately! I post allot of questions and material here for public flogging. So ya, just let players know how the rules work, and if they dont like it say you will consider changing it. If you do, just set it in stone so they know what to expect and the key is that everyone is happy and has fun! I enjoy writing allot and Modern d20/ Future d20 is so open ended that it gives me allot of freedom to write. Luckily I have a job that gives me the time to do it too.
#14 psininja Aug 16, 2008 9:24:02	This was covered in Bullets Points, the one talking about the Wealth System. I will put the question and answer here. Does a hero have to purchase a separate license for every single restricted item, or does one license cover every item of a given restriction level? A single license covers every item on a given table that has a restriction level equal to or lower than the level of the license. For example, a license for a Beretta 92F (Licensed restriction level) also covers any additional items from Table 4-4 that have the Licensed restriction level. An AKM (Restricted restriction level) requires a higher-level license. A character who buys the license for an AKM, however, could then purchase any other item from Table 4-4 of Restricted or lower level without needing another license. The items noted on Table 4-10: General Equipment are exceptions to this rule. Every item on this table is licensed separately, except items that are grouped together. For example, a black box and a demolition kit require separate licenses. However, a single license covers both pistol and rifle suppressors, since they're grouped together under the Suppressor heading. One final note: The lock release gun and the lockpick set were supposed to be grouped together under the Lockpicks heading. Both of these items are covered by the same license Hope this clears things up a bit.