Original Cost: Original Cost: $110,000,000
Construction Facts: 800 miles of welding, 1,135,000 driven rivets, 16 miles of ventilation ducts,14,140 valves and 80 miles of piping; 17 miles of which is used for refrigeration and cooling purposes.
Fuel Oil capacity: 2,582,000 gallons
Electrical capacity: Sufficient to handle the industrial and domestic load of a city of 20,000 people. The ship utilizes over 900 electrical motors, 5,300 light fixures, 250 miles of electric cable.
Food Storage Capacity: 100 tons of fresh fruit and vegetables, 650 tons of dry stores and 84 tons of frozen meats
Armor: Armor: sides 12.1"; maximum conning tower thickness 17-1/2".
Guns: Three 16"/50 turrets (9 guns) - range 42,345 yds (23 miles) each 16" projectile weighs approximately 2,700 pounds and can penetrate up to 30 feet of concrete. Each barrel is 66'8" long. Six (80's) and ten (40's&50's) 5"/38 twin gun mounts - range 17,575 yards. Four Phalanx Close-in Weapons systems (each capable of 3,000 rounds per minute)
Missiles: Missiles: Eight Tomahawk Armored Box launchers (32 long-range cruise missles) Four, 4-canister Harpoon launchers (16 anti-ship missles)
Main Engines: Four geared Westinghouse turbines; 53,000 horsepower each.
Boilers: Eight Babcock and Wilcox; Propellers: two five-bladed 18'3", two four-bladed (total of four)
Rudders: Two
Speed: 33 knots
WW2 Design Compliment: 117 officers, 1804 enlisted
1980's Compliment: 60 officers, 1500 enlisted
<...>
The Iowa is very solid. For example, the face armor on the main turrets - two forward, one aft for a total nine 16-inch guns - is 17 inches thick if memory serves.
These buckets were meant, in John Paul Jones' phrase, to go in harm's way, and they were built to take it. Nice touches are involved. For example, rivet heads inside the turrets have steel caps over them to that a hit on a turret won't send the rivet flying lethally about. Damage control facilities are multiple and serious.
The ship's innards are awesome. Everything is steel, and everything is many inches thick. The modern Navy is pretty much built not to get hit. the Iowas assume they would be hit - and hit hard - and shrug it off. redundancy is taken for granted: two plotting rooms at opposite ends of the ship to control the big guns, which I believe could be fired from 11 different places on the ship; <........>"
What are you up to this time? Battleships and... Aliens? Zombies?
P.S. Thank you for the numbers backstabbist.
crew density per kilometer cubed
yikes! 1,000,000,000 cubic meters! Holy Borg Cubeship, Batman!
doing the math...it comes to about 12 million crew for a Imperial-Class Stardestroyer?
Complement:
* World War II, Korea and Vietnam
2,700 officers and men
* During the 1980s[1]
1,800 officers and men
hmmm...interesting idea...about 64:1
yikes! 1,000,000,000 cubic meters! Holy Borg Cubeship, Batman!
doing the math...it comes to about 12 million crew for a Imperial-Class Stardestroyer?
I'm not sure what you did wrong, but there is a mistake somehwere in your math. To achieve the same crew density as an Iowa battleship, an Imperial star destroyer would have about 54,705 people in its crew. According to Star Wars cannon it has 37,000 + 9,700 troops. Ships of the ISD size or smaller tend to have fairly usable crew sizes according to Star Wars lore as written. When you get to the bigger ships though, the STD, someone just started smoking something. 200,000 people to crew a 17 kilometer ship? Yea... ok.
Just so you know how I came by the math, the ISD officially has a length of 1,600 m and a width of 1,015 m. Its high looks like it might be about 500m. However, its a triangle, not a cube, and both its width and high get a lot smaller in its smallest places. I estimated it to be of about the size of a shape that is 1,600 meters long by 500 meters wide by 250 meters tall over all. That comes out to 0.2 kilometers.
The iowa battleship has a crew density of 273,528 people per kilometer cubed. In case you want to know how I got that number, it is as follows:
The Iowa has a length of about 270 meters, a a beam of 33 meters, and a draught of 11 meters. That makes it 0.00009801 cubic kilometers. I counted a WWII sized crew of 2,700 people, which means that it had a WWII population density of 27,548,209 (uh, wait a second, that is not the number I got the first time!).
27,548,209 x 0.2 = 5,509,641 (Not what I got on my count for the estimated population of a ISD the first time at all!)
So now it seems I have made a mistake somewhere in my math... but I can't tell if it was the first time or the second time.
EDIT: I double checked the math here. This appears to be right. I appear to have made a mistake the first time. Which means I still have to go back and fix all my math for my crew sizes for my Land of Nod ships. BOO!!!!
Why can't sci-fi writers have a better sense of scale so that I don't have to do this legwork myself? Seriously. :P
I just don't understand where they get their numbers from. Its like they pull them out of a hat and go "huh... 37,000 people to crew an ISD... why not, I guess that makes sense." Grrrrrr!!!!
If I can do this, anybody can. I am a little miffed that nobody did. :P
The Iowa has a length of about 270 meters, a a beam of 33 meters, and a draught of 11 meters.
you did consider thet the 11m draft is just the part that is underwater... right?
Crew denisty is also very very dependant on the social standards of the service in question.
Submarines have very little quartering space allocated per crew,
but the times we have seen inside starfleet crew suites we think they get more room than passengers on luxury cruise ships of today.
I had my 8x8 'space' in the army, 3 of us as a clover around a middle empty 8x8,
and maybe if we look up jail cells we will find similar numbers,
but that is a far cry from 3 tier shared bunks in Das Boot.
Of course, the 120 crew of a d20Future 750' Cruiser must be luxurious quartering
I put 4man bays for crew at ~20x20 (ok... lets switch to 7mx6m) on a ship I did,
the marines contingent in the basement,
and caught flack for being far far to generous.
Volumes
B=area of pyramid base
Volume of pyramid = (B*h)/3
ISD: 1600x1015x250/3=135 million cubic meters (0.135 cubic kilometres)
reasoning is that insides for really big ships is mostly empty (open spaces)
example <--- image of ISD cutaway
assumption here -- ISD is pyramid shaped
Volumes
B=area of pyramid base
Volume of pyramid = (B*h)/3
ISD: 1600x1015x250/3=135 million cubic meters (0.135 cubic kilometres)
Huh. Odd. I would have thought that an ISD would be a bit larger... Like I said. I guesstimated it at 0.2 cubic kilometers. But I can't fault your math. It seems totally kosher... Huh.
Okay, I've been playing with numbers and find the near fit for crew density ratio as about 1:2500.
reasoning is that insides for really big ships is mostly empty (open spaces)
example <--- image of ISD cutaway
I am feeling really dumb right now. What do you mean that the near fit for crew density ratio would be 1:2500? Are you saying that for every 2500 people on a real ship that would result in 1 person for an ISD? I have been running some numbers, and that can't be right. That would end up with even less people than an ISD actually has. :P
In any case, for the Land of Nod, this is what I decided. I decided that for the Frigate and Cruiser sized ships listed that I converted to Terran or Gaian ships I would use the listed passenger/crew manifests x10. So, for example, I turned the ISD into a Terran Bastion-class battleship. So, pretty much, it has crew size of 370,000 and a troop manifest of 97,000. Its still has a lot smaller density than contemporary battleships or submarines... but like you said, a lot of empty space. :P
For the Edonian ships, though, due the their phobia of automated systems, I calculated much more "realistic" densities. A purity class battleship is 6 kilometers by 2 kilometers by 1 kilometer in size, and has a crew of 58,000,000. Meanwhile its largest ships, its two Hand of God class titans, are 22 kilometers by 7 kilometers by 7 kilometers (pretty much) and have a crew of 4,000,009,894 each.
Do those numbers seem believable?
Also I think the Executor was understaffed according to something I read somewhere once. Don't quote me on that.
Question for you.. What do you class an ISD as? Destroyer? Cruiser? Carrier? It's almost a mix of all three.. It can and does get used in all three roles.. Lots of guns for killing stuff, escorts larger ships, destroys other ships, carries 6 squardrons of TIEs (although space is saved with the rack system) plus support craft. Oh.. and don't forget it has space set aside for a prefabricated garrison, plus ground troops and vehicles plus craft to carry them.. Star Wars ships never seem to really fit in one role a lot.
kronos182: I am using its Saga stats to represent the battleship class ships of the Terran empire.
modern warships - with just as much firepower - if not more have smaller crews than much smaller WWII era vessels had
as an example - during WWII the std AA weapon was the bofors 40mm in single / double / quad mounts
the quad had 18 crew PER tub - and more ` shared ` in the ammo handling
nowadays - a vessel only needs 2 30mm goal keeper mounts - and both are semi autonomous - if msanual control is needed - it is done by an officer on the briage or a rating in CIC
there are no ` dedivcated crew ` tasked specifically to the goalkeeper system
crewing requirements have shrunk drastically in all departments - except flight operations