i want this to grow with them as a player and be able to hold its down but not be over powered
should i just give it class levels or how would this best work ?
and if a player wanted to do this how would that best be handled
If its a mysteriously intelligent dog or your just working on general combat ability e.g. Dog is a level 3 strong/level 2 soldier (with improved critical bite, weapon specializaton bite and power attack) I'd suggest you look at D20 past specifically the feat sidekick. You have to be 6th level to take it but it duplicates one of the leadership abilities from DnD. You get a leadership score based on your character level, reputation and charisma modfier + other factors that determines the level of your sidekick ranging from nothing if you have a score of 1 or less up to 17 if you have a score of 25 or higher.
EDIT
Since your DM you could just randomly pick a player and work out what their score would be if they had this feat then give the dog that many levels.
and i don't want to tie to to a players
just wondering on stats basically so i don't make combat boring for the players but it wont die on them
basically the dog is making up for a 4rth player
ie showing base attack and fair hd per level
The main problem you're going to come across is gear. Any creature that doesn't have hands is going to come up short in a fight when they are incapable of ranged combat. Don't forget that guns also tend to do more damage, so the creature will be shy on damage even when it can slip up close to attack. This becomes less of a problem when all characters/monsters are enganged in melee, as the damage is more balanced. The feat from the 3.5 D&D MM that ups the damage dice of a natural attack will lessen this burden.
Armor is a problem as well. Since the attack bonus of monsters scales up, but the creature cannot put on and take off armor on its own, it will get hit more frequently as it rises in level. I overcame this by allowing the intelligent animal to take feats that boost its natural armor. This use of feats however made it less effective in combat, so i decided on a single feat that granted a basic plus 1 to natural armor bonus for every character level gained.
I hope this helps you out.
Biggest issue is ranged combat and for that I'd say you can either be silly and use a spell effect from one of the DnD books that turns a melee attack into a ranged one (giving natural bite attacks as its example) so the dog can bite from a distance. Or another route is to have it multiclass into a mage or psionic class and attack using spells/psycich powers from distance. Personally however I'd treat it as making up for a lack of ranged attack in other areas e.g. ability to smell out drugs or contraband, to blend in to the surroundings as a stray/family owned dog and sneak up behind the enemy, keep watch and bark to alert the party to potential problems while they're resting, track escaping foes etc.
Its BAB is equal to 2/3 of its Hit dice (as if it were a fast hero)
Its good saves are Fort and Reflex . Its bad save is will. This is actualy better than any modern class, or even advanced class that i know of.
1 skill per hit die (its actualy 2+ int modifier/hd with a minimum of 1, but with an int score of 2 its always going to be 1)
it gains 1 feat a at 1st level and then 1 every 3 hd (1 3 6 9 just like aplayer) Good choices in modern include Dodge, agile riposte, alertness, armor proficiency (light), dodge, mobility, defensive martial arts (flavor text/name need adjustment), elusive target, improved initiative, improved damage threshhold, run
Hm. I might use this myself...
-DF
In reality most dogs are at least as smart as a human toddler.
As far as playing a dog as a character...
I'd treat it like any other straight up melee character.
You just have to be aware of the fact that you won't have access to weapons or armor.
I'd allow the dog to take levels in strong, tough, fast, and dedicated hero. Then I'd encourage the player to take the martial artist advanced class or possibly the infiltrator advanced class. I'd play a dog as a scout, and focus on feats and talents that increase my defense score and my damage output.
anyway... just some thoughts.
I cant find it here via the Search
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K9 body armor: Cause dogs is people too
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K-9 Partner Armor - INCOMPLETE!!!*
Designed and configured to protect police dogs, the K-9 Partner Armor is a two piece unit that is contoured to the dog’s body, offering ballistic protection for the chest and back.
Type: Tactical
Equipment Bonus: +6
Nonprof. Bonus: +2
Maximum Dex Bonus: +2
Armor Penalty: -5
Speed (40 ft.): 35
Weight: 10lbs
PDC: 17
Restriction: Lic (+1)
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* This is marked as incomplete because it is really just human body armor stats slapped up for a doggie.
How should this be fixed so that it would be more appropriate?
I dunno, but I like your stats the way they are... assuming the base Dog Speed is 40 and you just popped it with an Armor -5'.
Just lay in a +3Def lighter one, and a +8 Def Heavier one for a set, and see how they fit together. You may see a need to raise penalties to make the lighter balance, or lower penalties to balance a Heavy
I'm just wondering how we know which dogs have both the Light Armor & Medium Armor Feats to wear +6Kevlar
oh, and I cant wait to see your numbers for the Concealable K9 Vest (Under-fur?)
Good point on the variety--
And I was wondering about the Feats thing too.
Can't teach an old dog new tricks, hrumph!
i would say dogs who are trained by the cops (agression dogs not drug dogs) are automatically proficient in its use. but i would drop the defence modifier to +3. and i dont think there is a lighter or heavier version out there. seein as how agression dogs are kinda the bullet shield for the human officers anyway
Seeing the amount of the dog covered,
and 2ndChance is selling them with NIJ-II & NIJ-IIIA,
+4 to +6 Def is not that unreasonable.
It would have to be a cinematic game to use the Heavy K9 Kevlar with ceramics, but it is a game after all.
I would have called them more of a Bullet Magnet than shield, they draw hurt away from the officer. Something about a furry razorblade in your face makes the officer less important.
Does it violate a protestors civil rights to throw meat on them prior to releasing the dogs? Cause a pound of bacon could go real far in quieting a crowd when they see the dogs lining up.
yeah i can see a +4 +6, that makes sence, and yes bullet magnet does sound right.
and i do believe you just solved the age old riot control problem. the dogs dont even have to be mean or agressive, they could just be random dogs, and you line them up and start launching bacon into the croud. yeah they shut the hell up and simer down real quick.
I don't know if I like the Max Dex Bonus, perhaps it should be +4 because it appears that most of the moving parts on that dog are pretty unhindered.
things like MAx Dex are why I said try a set of Light Med Heavy so you can see the numbers going up as a balance. I'd be willing to allow a little AGB in the penalties, especially once we start staplegunning ceramic plates onto Cujo
The Armor Proficiency aspect...
A Trained Police Dog may, uh, be trained for this sort of thing. But if he isn't, then his Police Partner is certainly trained in Armor Prof's shouldn't he? The dog can't put that armor on himself anyway...
Do you want to set a precedent that un-feated armor may be worn if put on with the assistance of a Feat Qualified guy? Cause I have a Smart/Fast that would love to let Mongo hang the steel & ceramic on him. Gotta b careful with this one, cause you will find yourself bumping into -
"Your head goes in this hole, and then these 2 straps velcro here & here" takes 2 feats to learn
Yeah... bad precident (balance-wise)-- But seriously though. It IS kinda silly that only people who take the feat REALLY know how to use the armor.
The best way to do it would probably to make it a trick. An animal can only know 3 tricks per point of int, so training it to both accept the armor without trying to gnaw it off and to move around in it freely could count as one trick, handle animal dc 15.
This is the best idea I've heard all day!
I'm not too up on animal rules-- I'd like to be though. A d20 Modern Pet Shop-like book would be nifty to write.
so a Smart PC with an 18INT knows how many tricks?
Cause I'd love to drop 3 tricks on Lt/Med/Hvy Armor prof at 1st level Smart
Sorry, only animals can learn tricks, humans don't like the taste of the milkbones
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You know I might come off sounding like an animal rights activist, but I don't agree with the philosophy that if a creature doesn't have the ability to speak that it must be dumb. This is an artifact of original D&D where the lowest score a human could have was a 3, therefore animals must be limited to 2.
In reality most dogs are at least as smart as a human toddler.
A human toddler doesn't necessarily have the intelligence (Ability score) that they would as a cognizant adult. Chimpanzees have a very similar development in mental faculties to human children up until the human child begins to develop speech where they quickly outstrip the furrier primates capabilities.
Likewise there is a marked difference between intelligence and cunning. Many animals show a sharp adaptability that, in our game, is represented by a wisdom score, i.e. animals are as wise as we, but not as smart.
And semantically, anything that cannot speak is, by definition, dumb. ;)
Also thanks to you I know have the image of a dog being sedated, cut open and having armour inserted in then being stitched back up again. Then a cop stands in front of a mob going "I have bacon and I'm not afraid to use it."
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a
Also detailed in the article are some new tricks one can teach animals
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a