Drawbacks to playing robots - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Drawbacks to playing robots

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
las_tale
Feb 12, 2010 20:28:09
As a new DM, I was thinking:

----------

Bioreplica NPCs start with the following stats: 14, 13, 12, 10, 10, and a nonability.

Given a high enough wealth bonus, they are able to upgrade their stats many times. For example, assuming a +25 wealth bonus at 15th level, they can have stats like: STR 24, DEX 24, Con —, Int 14, Wis 14, and Cha 14 - all without losing a single point of wealth.

They can have all sorts of cool abilities, such as scent, darkvision, integrated weapons, etc.

They don't have to make saves against massive damage, and are immune to any effect that requires a fortitude save, such as paralysis. They can go into areas with extreme heat, radiation, or cold and are fine.

They can use any kind of skill, given time. There doesn't seem to be a limit to the amount of skills they can learn at once other than a wealth decrease (and only at lower levels).

They can be ressurected through Repair checks.

----------

Doesn't this seem rather overpowered? I don't know why anyone would play anything else.

In the Future Tech supplement, the drawbacks for robots are said to be a vulnerability to EMPs and a possibility that they cannot be ressurected. That's all? Regular people don't even have the possibility of being ressurected. On the other hand, the only EMP weapons are EMP grenades, and you can't expect everyone carrying around a grenade (besides, the average damage is 17 - a plasma rifle in PL7 does just about the same damage, and its usable multiple times).

Am I misunderstanding the rules somehow?
#2
bladerock
Feb 13, 2010 0:50:24 Are you forgetting that it is up to the GM to set just how easily obtainable technology is on his/her world?

Just because something can happen by the RAW it doesn't mean it's going to happen in your game.

For a real world example: Let's say i win the lottery. Just because i have X million dollars in the real world it doesn't mean i can go to my local walmart and buy a completely functional tank.

It would take a lot of effort to legally obtain one and even then, it won't be a top of the line model.

As for the other advantages, well they lack natural healing for starters, the amount of HP healed with each repair check is one d10 and they can't cushion on the negatives. 0 HP? game over, man.

It is also important to note that any game with robots will possibly have cybernetics, which give similar options to organic PCs.

Yes, robots are nice, but they are by no means overpowered.
#3
las_tale
Feb 13, 2010 2:45:39 Eh, the players are in a high-tech, functional space colony in a PL7 universe. Technology shouldn't be too hard to get their hands on.

But yes, you're right - natural healing is a big disadvantage. And a Repair DC of 30 is really high, especially for lower-level characters.

Thank you for pointing that out!
#4
bladerock
Feb 13, 2010 11:48:20 We are in an advanced PL5 society, and we don't see everyone carrying rocket launchers or flying their own personal jet. :P

As i said, just because the technology is there, it doesn't mean it's widely available.

For example, there may be laws in place that restrict robots from having a strength score higher than 18 unless they belong to the government, which would mean that the PCs would have to go out of their way to get said upgrade.

Unlike classes, feats and skills, these are purchased equipment, and the GM has control over how easy it is to find someone who sells equipment and what equipment is readily available. Hopefully, your in-universe walmarts haven't been stocking warships and giant laser cannons.
#5
TheRealOrion
Feb 13, 2010 14:18:30 But but... they cannot feel this thing you humans call "love"! Surely, that's punishment enough?!
#6
las_tale
Feb 13, 2010 20:16:21
As i said, just because the technology is there, it doesn't mean it's widely available.

For example, there may be laws in place that restrict robots from having a strength score higher than 18 unless they belong to the government, which would mean that the PCs would have to go out of their way to get said upgrade.

They're working for the government... the military, in fact.

>_<

It's called the Star System Defense - SSD for short.
#7
buzzxf
Feb 13, 2010 20:29:24 Remember robots are generally seen as property. I also recommend setting some laws. Assuming yours are working for the military, some loyalty programs, and protocol can be able to bring about rp conflicts.
#8
bladerock
Feb 13, 2010 21:12:32
As i said, just because the technology is there, it doesn't mean it's widely available.

For example, there may be laws in place that restrict robots from having a strength score higher than 18 unless they belong to the government, which would mean that the PCs would have to go out of their way to get said upgrade.

They're working for the government... the military, in fact.

>_<

It's called the Star System Defense - SSD for short.

Lol, the rookie doesn't get to pilot the B-2 Bomber.

It was an example. You can think of your own laws and IC reasons for not allowing every single thing the PCs come up with.

Or you can come up with something ludicrous like 'Your model is hardwired and can't be modified in any way."

Regardless, it is my opinion that Robots are a lot easier to reign in than most other species that have the potential to become unbalanced.
#9
narukagami
Feb 13, 2010 22:28:19
As i said, just because the technology is there, it doesn't mean it's widely available.

For example, there may be laws in place that restrict robots from having a strength score higher than 18 unless they belong to the government, which would mean that the PCs would have to go out of their way to get said upgrade.

They're working for the government... the military, in fact.

>_<

It's called the Star System Defense - SSD for short.

Given the way bureaucracy works, that's even more a reason for them to have limited access to tech and gear. :P
#10
backstabbist
Feb 14, 2010 1:51:18 I have concluded my research in the subject of Robot Characters
( aka: watched some Mystery Science Theater 3000, and Futurama )
and have decided that

1. Robot partymembers dont have to be restricted to the 3 richest kings of Europa... apparently any schlub can have some robo-buddies.

2. Robots that have higher than 18 stats are not purely military, but quite obviously stronger robots would exist in the INDUSTRIAL environment. Tanks may be strong, but them tankers got all uppity when we hit their tank with a D7 blade. Bender is not military but is obviously built strong enough to bend.

also,
Why would anyone design an AutoshopBot
that was too weak to simply lift & hold the car up while it unscrews the lugnuts with its fingers... no problem for a civilian industrial robot built to those performance specs
(specs btw that make it a pretty efficient Killbot when it lifts you up and unscrews your head like a lugnut)

Lets get back in the scope of Modern,
if the guy wants to have even an entire plannet populated by robots ( Cylon?)
thats fine if thats what the campaign is about.
Just as we say "No Humans" in the Elf&Pixie campaign, we can also say "No Squishies" in the Robo campaign.... or have a 50-50 Squishy-Robo population... whatever the campaign is about can easily have a suppoting social system by gm declaring the social system supports it.

#11
bladerock
Feb 14, 2010 13:04:13 Uh, we were talking about the potential for robot characters to unblance a campaign/be unbalanced.

But yes, industrial robots would need higher physical capabilities than military ones.
#12
shinobi_guyver
Feb 14, 2010 19:27:53
But yes, industrial robots would need higher physical capabilities than military ones.

For military purposes, robots would probably need better targeting/precision systems and higher durability, perhaps a few backup systems in case something important gets shot off....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 las_tale Feb 12, 2010 20:28:09	As a new DM, I was thinking: ---------- Bioreplica NPCs start with the following stats: 14, 13, 12, 10, 10, and a nonability. Given a high enough wealth bonus, they are able to upgrade their stats many times. For example, assuming a +25 wealth bonus at 15th level, they can have stats like: STR 24, DEX 24, Con —, Int 14, Wis 14, and Cha 14 - all without losing a single point of wealth. They can have all sorts of cool abilities, such as scent, darkvision, integrated weapons, etc. They don't have to make saves against massive damage, and are immune to any effect that requires a fortitude save, such as paralysis. They can go into areas with extreme heat, radiation, or cold and are fine. They can use any kind of skill, given time. There doesn't seem to be a limit to the amount of skills they can learn at once other than a wealth decrease (and only at lower levels). They can be ressurected through Repair checks. ---------- Doesn't this seem rather overpowered? I don't know why anyone would play anything else. In the Future Tech supplement, the drawbacks for robots are said to be a vulnerability to EMPs and a possibility that they cannot be ressurected. That's all? Regular people don't even have the possibility of being ressurected. On the other hand, the only EMP weapons are EMP grenades, and you can't expect everyone carrying around a grenade (besides, the average damage is 17 - a plasma rifle in PL7 does just about the same damage, and its usable multiple times). Am I misunderstanding the rules somehow?
#2 bladerock Feb 13, 2010 0:50:24	Are you forgetting that it is up to the GM to set just how easily obtainable technology is on his/her world? Just because something can happen by the RAW it doesn't mean it's going to happen in your game. For a real world example: Let's say i win the lottery. Just because i have X million dollars in the real world it doesn't mean i can go to my local walmart and buy a completely functional tank. It would take a lot of effort to legally obtain one and even then, it won't be a top of the line model. As for the other advantages, well they lack natural healing for starters, the amount of HP healed with each repair check is one d10 and they can't cushion on the negatives. 0 HP? game over, man. It is also important to note that any game with robots will possibly have cybernetics, which give similar options to organic PCs. Yes, robots are nice, but they are by no means overpowered.
#3 las_tale Feb 13, 2010 2:45:39	Eh, the players are in a high-tech, functional space colony in a PL7 universe. Technology shouldn't be too hard to get their hands on. But yes, you're right - natural healing is a big disadvantage. And a Repair DC of 30 is really high, especially for lower-level characters. Thank you for pointing that out!
#4 bladerock Feb 13, 2010 11:48:20	We are in an advanced PL5 society, and we don't see everyone carrying rocket launchers or flying their own personal jet. :P As i said, just because the technology is there, it doesn't mean it's widely available. For example, there may be laws in place that restrict robots from having a strength score higher than 18 unless they belong to the government, which would mean that the PCs would have to go out of their way to get said upgrade. Unlike classes, feats and skills, these are purchased equipment, and the GM has control over how easy it is to find someone who sells equipment and what equipment is readily available. Hopefully, your in-universe walmarts haven't been stocking warships and giant laser cannons.
#5 TheRealOrion Feb 13, 2010 14:18:30	But but... they cannot feel this thing you humans call "love"! Surely, that's punishment enough?!
#6 las_tale Feb 13, 2010 20:16:21	As i said, just because the technology is there, it doesn't mean it's widely available. For example, there may be laws in place that restrict robots from having a strength score higher than 18 unless they belong to the government, which would mean that the PCs would have to go out of their way to get said upgrade. They're working for the government... the military, in fact. >_< It's called the Star System Defense - SSD for short.
#7 buzzxf Feb 13, 2010 20:29:24	Remember robots are generally seen as property. I also recommend setting some laws. Assuming yours are working for the military, some loyalty programs, and protocol can be able to bring about rp conflicts.
#8 bladerock Feb 13, 2010 21:12:32	As i said, just because the technology is there, it doesn't mean it's widely available. For example, there may be laws in place that restrict robots from having a strength score higher than 18 unless they belong to the government, which would mean that the PCs would have to go out of their way to get said upgrade. They're working for the government... the military, in fact. >_< It's called the Star System Defense - SSD for short. Lol, the rookie doesn't get to pilot the B-2 Bomber. It was an example. You can think of your own laws and IC reasons for not allowing every single thing the PCs come up with. Or you can come up with something ludicrous like 'Your model is hardwired and can't be modified in any way." Regardless, it is my opinion that Robots are a lot easier to reign in than most other species that have the potential to become unbalanced.
#9 narukagami Feb 13, 2010 22:28:19	As i said, just because the technology is there, it doesn't mean it's widely available. For example, there may be laws in place that restrict robots from having a strength score higher than 18 unless they belong to the government, which would mean that the PCs would have to go out of their way to get said upgrade. They're working for the government... the military, in fact. >_< It's called the Star System Defense - SSD for short. Given the way bureaucracy works, that's even more a reason for them to have limited access to tech and gear. :P
#10 backstabbist Feb 14, 2010 1:51:18	I have concluded my research in the subject of Robot Characters ( aka: watched some Mystery Science Theater 3000, and Futurama ) and have decided that 1. Robot partymembers dont have to be restricted to the 3 richest kings of Europa... apparently any schlub can have some robo-buddies. 2. Robots that have higher than 18 stats are not purely military, but quite obviously stronger robots would exist in the INDUSTRIAL environment. Tanks may be strong, but them tankers got all uppity when we hit their tank with a D7 blade. Bender is not military but is obviously built strong enough to bend. also, Why would anyone design an AutoshopBot that was too weak to simply lift & hold the car up while it unscrews the lugnuts with its fingers... no problem for a civilian industrial robot built to those performance specs (specs btw that make it a pretty efficient Killbot when it lifts you up and unscrews your head like a lugnut) Lets get back in the scope of Modern, if the guy wants to have even an entire plannet populated by robots ( Cylon?) thats fine if thats what the campaign is about. Just as we say "No Humans" in the Elf&Pixie campaign, we can also say "No Squishies" in the Robo campaign.... or have a 50-50 Squishy-Robo population... whatever the campaign is about can easily have a suppoting social system by gm declaring the social system supports it.
#11 bladerock Feb 14, 2010 13:04:13	Uh, we were talking about the potential for robot characters to unblance a campaign/be unbalanced. But yes, industrial robots would need higher physical capabilities than military ones.
#12 shinobi_guyver Feb 14, 2010 19:27:53	But yes, industrial robots would need higher physical capabilities than military ones. For military purposes, robots would probably need better targeting/precision systems and higher durability, perhaps a few backup systems in case something important gets shot off....