it's about 80 - 85% completed. the rules are all there from d20... minor conversion for bindu powers, etc.the classes are what i've been having the most fun with.
here's an example you should all love...
Sandworm (Shai Hulud)
Colossal Beast
Hit Dice: 250d10+3000 (4,375 hp)
Initiative: -3 (Dex)
Speed: 60 ft., burrow 60 ft.
Armor Class: 39 (-8 size, -3 Dex, +40 Natural Armor)
Attaks: Bite +39 melee; crush +34 melee.
Damage: Bite 5d8+32; crush 20d10+16.
Face/Reach: 40 ft. x 80 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, swallow whole, crush
Special Qualities: Tremor sense, damage reduction 15/+1
Saves: Fortitude +24, Reflex +9, Will +3.
Str 75, Dex 4, Con 35, Int 1, Wis 4, Cha 4.
Skills and Feats: Hide , Intimidate , Listen , Move Silently , Search , Sense Motive , Spot , Wilderness Lore ; Awesome Blow, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bite).
Climate: Warm Desert
Organization: Solitary or herd (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 35
Treasure: none
Alignment: Neutral (Always)
Advancement: 251-750 HD (Colossal).
The sand worm of dune is a colossal creature whose sheer size is enough to make most people think twice about getting anywhere near them. For the Fremen, the sandworms hold a deep religious significance.
Combat
Sand worms attack with their tremendous bite. If this should fail, they can attack by rolling onto their opponents, crushing them.
Crush (Ex): The sandworm can attempt to crush its opponents by rolling on top of them. The opponent may make a Reflex save (DC 30) to jump out of the way. Crushed victims take full crush damage.
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a sand worm must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can attempt to swallow the foe the following round.
Swallow Whole (Ex): A sand worm can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of a smaller size than itself by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 5d8+32 points of crushing damage plus 8 points of heat damage per round from the worm’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 17).
Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Gargantuan worm’s interior can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents.
Tremorsense (Ex): Sand worms automatically sense the location of anything that is in contact with the ground and within range, so long as it is touching the ground itself.
try that one out...
steve-o
As for publication... that would be unethical as well as illegal, of course. However, if you really want a copy, and you promise, cross-your-heart-and-hope-to-die-stick-a needle-in-your-eye swear to only use these powers for good, then i might be able to send you a copy... Steve-OOriginally posted by Jedi Steve-O
I'm actually trying to get it completed before summer... should be playtesting by early- to mid-May.
...Actually, I wasn't thinking of publication so much as getting a copy from you. I'll take one whenever you 're comfortable sending it out- either now or post-playtesting. And I'll be very greatful for it.
Originally posted by Jedi Steve-O
i'm actually nearing completion on my own version of this fantastic game that should've been made years ago.
the classes are what i've been having the most fun with.
here's an example you should all love...
I hate to be a wet blanket, but this sample doesn't fill me with confidence. For starters, there's a serious discrepancy between the hit dice and the BAB and saving throws. The bonuses it has are in line with a 20-HD beast. A creature's BAB and save bonuses don't just stop advancing once it hits 20 HD, you know; look at the stats for dragons if you don't believe me.
Now, if you want to disconnect hit dice from attacks and saves, that's your prerogative, but it would be nice to let the reader know you've done so.
Other problems I noticed:
- Tremorsense has no range listed.
- I can't see any good reason for lumping skills and feats together on the same "line".
- It may just be a problem with my browser, but I don't see any numbers for the skills.
- Special attacks requiring Reflex saves (e.g. dragon breath) aren't generally handled with attack rolls.
What I'd really be interested in seeing, though, is what kind of classes you came up with.
Wyvern
You're absolutely right, Wyvern. Thanks for pointing out the missed info. And yeah, I'm right there with you as far as "This topic seems to pop up every few months, and it always peters out sooner or later without creating many useable rules."I got
sick of not being able to play in the Dune universe (as did my gaming group), so instead of griping, I decided to do something about it for us. And yeah, I saw they disabled the search feature as well... 
As far as the stats on the sandworm go, you're right about most of it. There is indeed a "serious discrepancy between the hit dice and the BAB and saving throws."
I'm taking a big, long look at the Draconomicon now that I managed to get my hands on it and Shai-hulud is going through some revisions... after all, that's what beta-testing is for. And that's also why I put it out here. On my other thread I mentioned that I'm looking for constructive criticism and this exactly what I meant -- Thanks! "...look at the stats for dragons if you don't believe me." I believe you.
Errata (happens all the time in professional publishing...)
- The range for Tremor sense should be 100m.
- The whole "...lumping skills and feats together on the same line." is a WotC format thing. Not sure if they still format their monsters and creatures this way, but yeah, I'm right there with ya.
- It's not just your browser, the stats for skills didn't post when I copied and pasted it over from the original. I'll be posting the revised stats soon.
- Not sure on the Special attacks requiring Reflex saves issue, but I'm looking into it...
Thanks again (especially Wyvern) and keep those comments coming! I can't fix it if I don't know what's broke!
Oh, and Wyvern, check out the other thread for a sample advanced class: Fremen.
Steve-OThe worm should have -incredible- energy resistance, and vulnerability to water. Lasguns, which can cut out a section of a 3-foot thick steel plate in a matter of a single round, (1080+ damage per round...) were very inneffective against Worm-shells. The Harkonnen -tried- and failed, to exterminate the worms. Long-range bombardment didn't work, and even the best, most expensive explosives they could find and use for traps rarely did much.
Tremorsense is the worm's only sense.. and they use it to detect things literally miles upon miles away. If that range is 100-meters, I'd change it to 100-miles.
Speed should be quite a bit higher, both normal and Burrowing. Worms were able to outrun ground vehicles so well that the Harvesters eventually decided that it was better to simply get air pick-up, since nothing big enough to carry much spice can outrun a worm; and considering that something big enough to carry alot of spice can move over 80mph even on loose sand... the above worm could only move at 40 kph, or 25 mph. I'd suggest making its base speed closer to 250.. And make sure to note that it can run while burrowing.
Bite: Remarkably appropriate damage; it'd need to clamp its teeth down on a building or vehicle only once for each inch thick of steel plate armor. Give it multiple attacks per round with its bite, mostly because of its BAB (+250/+245/+240/+235 would work with its HD). Imagine a worm pulling its mouth around a harvester and chomping repeatedly, like a person chewing at a tough steak.
Classes:
Star-Wars d20 looks quite appropriate here. No 'Jedi Guardian' or 'Jedi Master', of course, but the Force Adept could work to represent someone training the the Bene Gesserit arts on their own, or who is progressing towards becoming a sister. A few revisions to the different classes, of course, but they'd seem to work out fine.
And Duloth yes before I started running a search on this I was going that route with the starwars convertion for Dune.
I know, I know... But something that epic... it's like putting stats on the Death Star laser--you don't need stats! It blows up entire planets! What else do you need to know?Yeah, it'd be "cool" to have them, but it's more of an epic story feel if you just say, "The factory you just ran out of is swallowed whole by the monstrous worm!"
Maybe keep things like its Speed handy, but it's not exactly something you go off and fight in a dungeon crawl.
It's still something I'm debating over. Anybody else care to weigh in on this?
As for just "converting" Star Wars, here's the thing. Classes like Noble and Jedi Guardian in Star Wars are beginning, entry-level classes. D20 Modern uses a system of basic classes and advanced classes. Different pre-reqs, different beginning feats... basically, different needs. It just seemed appropriate to use the d20 system and create my own advanced classes from scratch, or some are heavily re-tooled. Don't get me wrong, I "borrowed" heavily from the Noble class, but using it as an advanced class presents its own challenges.
Also, I've been playing with the idea of using the Star Wars system of Vitality and Wound points. Seems to me that combat in Dune was always particularly deadly, but not very graphic. I'm just trying to work that into the rules... Suggestions?On a different note: I'd just like to send a huge thank you out to all the game designers (not only from Wizards of the Coast, but The Game Mechanics and Monte Cook, et al.), who helped make this system possible. It's such a daunting task, I didn't have a real appreciation for what went into one until I started putting Dune together on my own. Wow.
You guys are awesome. Steve-OD20 modern isn't exactly appropriate for Dune. In Dune, 'Solider', 'Pilot', and 'Noble' really -ARE- begining, entry-level classes. Paul was a noble at birth. A harkonnen soldier was probably a soldier from birth. Requiring an advanced class to be a soldier doesn't really seem appropriate.
And wounds/vitality is, again, ideal for any Sci-Fi or modern setting. Better than the way d20 modern does it, really. Not to mention how much more closely the Force system resembles the Bene Gesserit than anything from d20 modern.
How bout you make one however you want, I'll make it using wounds/vitality.
"the system is only that but the story is were it realy is."
by me.
keep up the outstanding work steve-o I love what your doing.
and Duloth keep it up too, I wouldn't mind seen any you have on this eather.
Brent
Trained Only
The character can attempt to compell someone else to action; this will seem only natural to them, untill the action is done, at which point they might stop and wonder if it was an odd action. The power can be used with no chance of failure, with any ranks at all, simply costing 2 vitality and having a will save DC of 10 (+4 bonus to the victim's saving throw if its harmfull to him in some way. Each additional vitality spent adds +3 to the skill check DC from a base of 10, and +2 to the will save. In addition to any such modifiers, the character's charisma modifier is added to the will save DC.
Sample:
Sister Jenna attempts to use the Voice to tell the Corrino soldier to let her go. She spends 10 vitality, for a save DC of 26, and a skill check DC 34 to suceed at using it. The soldier is trained in resisting the voice, and has a will save of +4; counting the bonus for the 'Voice Resistant' feat of +4, and the +4 bonus from he fact that the action might harm him, he has an overall +12 bonus. He fails his save; he had a 30% chance to pass. He unlocks the door, letting Jenna go, and watches her run away without a second thought untill shes around the bend.
Instant Reaction[Wis]
Trained Only
The character can spend 1 point of vitality to add a +2 bonus to initiative, with a maximum bonus to initiative equal to her skill ranks. The character can spend 6 points of vitality, and pass an Instant Reaction check DC 24, to be able to use an AoO at any point in the round against any enemy within attack range who did not in fact pose an AoO. The character can spend 2 points of vitality to add a +1 dodge bonus to AC and reflex untill her next action, with a maximum bonus equal to her skill ranks.
Sample:
Jenna is confronted by a trio of Corrino soldiers. She spends 4 vitality to get a +8 to her initiative check, almost guaranteeing she gets in the first swing, allowing her to react with lightning speed to the soldiers advance. She uses both of her initial attacks to trip two of the soldiers, and gain extra attacks with her Improved Trip ability to hit each once. When the soldiers rise to attack, she spends 6 vitality to gain an AoO against one of them, and 6 more to get a +3 dodge bonus for when they attack.
Brent
PS: good work on those.
Bio-Focus:
Allows the character to heal herself, a skill check to counteract or reduce poisons, a skill check to minimize the effects of wounds, or to give a brief bonus to strength, dexterity, or constitution. All of which have scaling vitality costs and check DCs.
Precognition:
Allows the character to focus and 'pre-view' upcoming events based on their own knowledge. Assuming the character knows all relevant information on an event, the outcome will be completely accurate. The skill check DC is based on the amount of time looked into.
Sample: A character could use Precognition to predict the outcome of a roll of the dice. But trying to predict the outcome of a game of poker would be almost impossible, as they would have to somehow know everything about all the players, especially the dealer. This power is very usefull where inanimate, easily understood objects come into play. Certain sisters have a greater talent for understanding at the genetic level, and one of the sisterhood's greatest projects is to develop this talent to the point they have a perfect precognitave.
Invisibility:
Allows the sister to make someone think they aren't there. No effect on recording devices. Synergy bonus from ranks in Voice.
Can anybody think of other Bene Gesserit talents? And we should never forget the Mentats, as they are the replacement for computers in the Houses.
i think ur really forgetting the Reverend Mother abilities
obviously the reverend mother will be a prestige class
Other Memories: there should be a bonus for skills and research based on the changes that the water of life produces in reverend mothers
Note: if ur running the campaign prior to the death of the God Emperor Leto II then reverend mothers only have access to female memories, the novels are unclear about afterwords but I believe they should have acess to both male and female memories due to the Atriedes genes of Ghanimas descendants
Poison Immunity: the Bene Gesseritt are experts of body chemistry and immune to almost all poisons, they in fact transmute the deadliest poison in the universe (the Water of Life) to become reverend mothers, so that would definitely be in order
Minutae Observation: very high perception powers, they can tell much about people and scenes from their senses,
I know theres a lot more i can figure out some more if you need
By the way I think the invisibility is a bad idea, that was a Brian Herbert/ Anderson idea and i think it kinda got away from the essence of Dune too much, too sci fi-y, Dune is really about allusions to the real world and high concept ideas, about Humans most of all, not superpowers because in the end even Mua'Dib and the Tyrant himself were mortals
A Butlerian Jihad campaign could be very fun becuase it definitely has a lot more sci fi elements in it
Mua'Dibs Cruasdes: set in the 12 year period between Dune and Dune Messiah
The Tyrants Reign: set during the 3500 year reign of the tyrant
The Scattering: this would be the most fun to design because theres a lot of room to explore ur own concepts and ideas
Imagine a sister walking through, whispering to everyone who glances her way "I'm not here. I'm not here. I'm not here." in just that tone of voice. I'd either make it merely a special use of the voice, or a seperate ability which got a synergy bonus from Voice.
Other Memories:
This is why I determined Reverend Mother must be an epic class. They have, effectively, 20 ranks in -ALL- skill checks of the mental variety whatsoever, and automatically suceed at Knowledge: History checks. If your going to have a reverend mother in the party, either we have to completely **** the game universe for balance, or the rest of the party is going to have to have such grand and incredible skills that none of the reverend mother's ancestors had them previously.
Poison Immunity:
Not immunity. Covered by Biological controll and/or Bio-Focus. Many sisters who take the test fail; it is possible, if unlikely, to effect even a reverend mother with a poison.
Minutae Observation:
This would closely tie in to the Precognition skill, and successfull use of it could allow a sister or reverend mother to observe some guards for a time and exactly predict how they would react in combat.
And on the note:
Invisibility being too... 'Sci-Fi'? To be honest, compared to being able to predict and mold the future at will seems much more 'Sci-Fi' to me than being able to be invisible. Paul could have simply determined the exact route via precognition he'd need to move so that no-one would see him or notice he was there. He effectively gets an automatic critical success on anything he does when precognition is involved; its like True Strike for everything.
Glad to see this topic's still got some steam... Got some ideas since Reverend Mothers and the Bene Gesserit sisterhood in general is the topic of the moment.
Other Memories:
This is why I determined Reverend Mother must be an epic class. They have, effectively, 20 ranks in -ALL- skill checks of the mental variety whatsoever, and automatically suceed at Knowledge: History checks. If your going to have a reverend mother in the party, either we have to completely **** the game universe for balance, or the rest of the party is going to have to have such grand and incredible skills that none of the reverend mother's ancestors had them previously.
I'm with Duloth on this one that Other Memories should definitely be a feat, but I'm writing it up (in my version) that the memories are at the GM's discretion to use the feat as a storytelling tool. This one has the potential of just getting waaaaay out of control. And, since I'm not one to "**** the game universe for balance," this seems to me the best compromise. I've written the Bene Gesserit as a basic class and Reverend Mother as a prestige class and it's looking pretty good so far.
Oh, and Duloth, gotta give credit where credit is due: using the Force system from Star Wars is soooo much simpler than the d20 Modern psionics rules, plust they flow much smoother. I also like your idea for poison immunity being a chancey thing...
Poison Immunity:
Not immunity. Covered by Biological control and/or Bio-Focus. Many sisters who take the test fail; it is possible, if unlikely, to effect even a reverend mother with a poison.
What about a skill:
Transmute Poison where you roll a Transmute check versus poison DC.
Steve-Oyou guy have some cool ideas. I've only been able to sit down and start thinking abut things and a game plan.
wow.
I'd say more but sleep is come on strong.
night.
Brent
Initially, I dislike the idea of a Sister being a core class; a Sister is an accomplished person already, and you already have to have some of the Bene Gesserit training in order to pass the Gom Jabbar test reliably. However, its possible to keep it all as one class; the reverend mother, the sister, and the initiate; and simply have it so that you have to pass certain tests, and gain certain feats, to gain class abilities aside from the simple gaining more skill points and such.
Transmute Poison:
The reverend mothers could accomplish many things through manipulating their bodies. Here are the skills I can think of that might be used so far:
Adrenaline Controll:
Allows expenditure of vitality to give bonuses to all physical checks for 1d4 rounds. (2 vitality = +1 mod to Strength, Dex, and Con checks for 1d4 rounds; possibly more than 1d4)
Chemical Adjustment:
Allows the conversion of one chemical in the body into another, possibly creating poisons and diseases which can be spread via bodily fluids, or the conversion of an otherwise harmfull chemical into a safe or even beneficial one. (Synergy to Adrenaline and Speed Recovery of +1 per 4 ranks)
Speed Recovery:
Skill check made after combat ends. Check result determines how rapidly you'll next recovery vitality and wounds. Another check made each time vitality and wounds recovered. For example, instead of recovering Vitality in an hour, and Wounds in a day, a result of 15 could halve recovery time, 20 quarter it, and so forth; each +5 to the check result being another halving of recovery time. A Sister with 15 ranks in Speed Recovery(avg result 25) could expect to recover vitality every 4 minutes and wounds every 3 hours, as opposed to a normal person who recovers them in 1 hour for vitality and 24 hours for wounds.
(Special: Requires seperate feat)Projection:
This is in fact a special use of 'The Voice' and not a seperate skill. The character can make someone else believe they are seeing something they are not, or not seeing something that they are. This functions as a standard use of The Voice, but the vitality cost is a base of 5 rather than 2, and the skill check DC base is 15 rather than 10.
(Feat)Keen Perceptions(Pre-req: Wis 13+, Alertness): The character gains a +2 bonus to Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive checks. This stacks with Alertness.
(Feat)Greater Perceptions(Pre-req: Wis 15+, Keen Perceptions, Instant Reaction 5+): The character's bonuses from Keen Perceptions become +3. The character can, with a Sense Motive check with a DC of 10 + the opponent's Bluff skill ranks + his Charisma modifier, make a spot judgement on someone accurate enough for use with the Precognition skill.
If the Sister is of a class which gives 8+ skills per level, we can assume they'd have at least 5 of the skills maxed out.
Water of Life (Poison)
Fort Save DC: 40
Initial Damage: 1d6+25, Con
Secondary Damage: 1d6+25, Con
This emission is made by drowning a worm in water, producing both Sandtrout from the worm's corpse, and converting the water into the poison with the halting of the worm's internal chemical reactions. Previous chemical analysis of the substance, what little has suceeded, has revealed it to be somewhat similar to the Spice in composition; most likely due to the affinity of worms themselves for the Spice.
Melange (Poison)
Will Save DC: 15
Initial Damage: Attraction
Secondary Damage: Addiction
Should the initial will save be failed, the embiber is required to try the Spice at some later date, as soon as it becomes reasonable available. If it becomes reasonably available at least twice in the same day, and they fail both saves, they must make a third save or become addicted.
Benefits: Spice can prolong age; in sufficient quantities, make one practically immortal, at the cost of one's fundamental humanity. It also grants one greater perceptions. A +2 bonus to all wisdom-related checks is gained for 4 hours after spice is taken in with a normal dosage; higher doses can grant up to a +6 bonus, and a long-term addiction can make the +2 bonus permanent. Its estimated that you age at half the normal rate while consuming spice regularly, possibly doubling your maximum age.
Originally posted by Jedi Steve-O
- The whole "...lumping skills and feats together on the same line." is a WotC format thing. Not sure if they still format their monsters and creatures this way, but yeah, I'm right there with ya.
I don't know where you got that idea, unless you're talking about their abbreviated stat blocks. Monster Manual entries have always had separate lines for skills and feats.But something that epic... it's like putting stats on the Death Star laser--you don't need stats! It blows up entire planets! What else do you need to know? Yeah, it'd be "cool" to have them, but it's more of an epic story feel if you just say, "The factory you just ran out of is swallowed whole by the monstrous worm!" Maybe keep things like its Speed handy, but it's not exactly something you go off and fight in a dungeon crawl.
Actually, I agree. If you made its BAB high enough to match its HD, there's no way it'd ever miss *anything* within its reach anyway, so there's not much point in making an attack roll.
Originally posted by Duloth
Star-Wars d20 looks quite appropriate here. No 'Jedi Guardian' or 'Jedi Master', of course, but the Force Adept could work to represent someone training the the Bene Gesserit arts on their own, or who is progressing towards becoming a sister. A few revisions to the different classes, of course, but they'd seem to work out fine.
Hmm... I've thought for a long time that the non-Force-using classes in SW would be perfect for a d20 Western game... it never occurred to me that they'd work well for Dune too.
Now that the search feature's back up, here's an old thread from the Fantasy Thinktank which I contributed to. Specifically, I suggested a list of possible classes (about halfway down the thread).
Wyvern
Wanted to post some more of my d20 Dune conversin. I've come up with (imho) a pretty good cross-section of classes and prestige classes. Here's the list, and I thought I'd post a few... The ones in bold are completed... italicized are still in progress.
Basic Classes
Warrior: An armsman with exceptional combat capability and unequaled skill with weapons.
Bene Gesserit: A sisterhood of political manipulators, the Bene Gesserit are a dominant force of guidance in the universe.
Fremen: Abandoned by the universe and hunted by the Harkonnen, these deeply religious desert dwellers await their messiah.
Mentat: Masters of intrigue, these human computers are trained in computational prediction.
Noble: Members of Houses of the Landsraad, nobles are masters of bargaining and negotiation who inspires confidence and makes a great leader.
Suk Doctor: Dedicated to healing and easing human suffering, the Suk have been conditioned by the Imperium to do no harm.
Swordmaster: Trained at the Ginaz school, these men-at-arms are in constant demand as House guards and instructors.
Trader (Smuggler): Experts in shipping and transporting goods, traders make their way in the universe by providing in-demand products to their customers.
Prestige Classes
Officer: Troop leaders of military forces.
Sardaukar: Dreaded terror troops of House Corrino.
Reverend Mother: Highly trained Bene Gesserit sisters.
Master of Assassins (Mentat): Deadly plotters of plans within plans within plans.
Fedaykin (Fremen): Fanatical death commandos of Muad’Dib.
I'm also including the NPC Classes for commoners and professionals who are the hard-working class of the universe, but not adventurers.
Diplomats: Speakers of the Dune universe, minor functionaries and businessmen.
Experts: Craftsmen and professional capable in their own fields.
Thugs: Strong, stout combatants, unsubtle but considerable fighters.
Going to put the classes in their own post... otherwise, this will be the neverending message.
Steve-O- I think you're missing a 'rogue' class, unless trader/smuggler leans much more towards illegal types of activities.
- I'd change 'warrior' to 'soldier' and 'thug' to 'warrior', so that the terminology stays consistent with D&D/other D20 products.
- I think that Suk Doctor should be a prestige class, especially given the restrictive nature of the conditioning.
- I would add a scientist base class to act as a feeder for Suk Doctor and so that skill-oriented characters have an option other than expert.
- Shouldn't there be an assassin class or prestige class?
- I think there are more prestige classes begging to get a write up. Just wish I knew more about Dune.
BENE GESSERIT
Because the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood operated for centuries behind the blind of a semi-mystic school while carrying on their selective breeding program among humans, we tend to award them with more status than they appear to deserve. Analysis of their "trial of fact" on the Arrakis Affair betrays the school's profound ignorance of its own role.
The Bene Gesserit program had as its target the breeding of a person they labeled "Kwisatz Haderach," a term signifying "one who can be many places at once." In simpler terms, what they sought was a human with mental powers permitting him to understand and use higher order dimensions. They were breeding for a super-Mentat, a human computer with some of the prescient abilities found in Guild navigators. Now, attend these facts carefully:
The Lady Jessica was ordered to produce an Atreides daughter. The plan was to inbreed this daughter with Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen, a nephew of the Baron Vladimir, with the high probability of a Kwisatz Haderach from that union. Instead, for reasons she confesses have never been completely clear to her, the concubine Lady Jessica defied her orders and bore a son. This alone should have alerted the Bene Gesserit to the possibility that a wild variable had entered their scheme. But there were other far more important indications that they virtually ignored.
Requirements
To qualify to become a Bene Gesserit, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Gender: Female only
Game Rule Information
Bene Gesserit have the following game statistics.
Abilities
Wisdom is important for the Bene Gesserit because of the emphasis they put on Prana Bindu skills and Will saves. But, as many Bene Gesserit skills are based on Dexterity, it can be equally useful in Defense and Initiative. Strength is almost as useful for its use in combat.
Vitality Die
The Bene Gesserit gains 1d8 vitality points per level. The character’s Constitution modifier applies. A 1st-level Bene Gesserit receives 8 vitality points + her Constitution modifier.
Action Points
The Bene Gesserit gains a number of action points equal to 5 + one-half character level, rounded down, every time she attains a new level in this class.
Class Skills
The Bene Gesserit’s class skills (and key ability for each skill) are as follows.
Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge* (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Read/Write Language (none), Speak Language (none), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Treat Injury (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Level: (7 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 7 + Int modifier.
Class Features
The following features pertain to the Bene Gesserit class.
Starting Feats
The Bene Gesserit begins play with the following feats: Simple Weapons Proficiency, Weirding Talent.
Jedi Steve-O, the Bene Gesserit class is perhaps the most difficult thing to create. I haven't looked at it very closely and am not sure what is balanced and not balanced, but even the undertaking of such a class is great.
Finally, I think we can get a D20une (using an old term) off the ground. In all other cases, people had great ideas, but other than a few rules here and there (including two mentat class mechanic ideas and rules for Spice) not much got done. Now, however, rules were included in posts very early and frequently.
This could actually work.
:DBene Gesserit are a specefic organization, and exactly what PrCs were intended for. The same with Suk Doctors. The Mentats and Swordmasters on the other hand require training at specefic schools, and thus have to meet an organizations requirements and training for entry.
Fremen is too specefic; a Barbarian class would apply for the Fremen, those on Salusa secundus, and the rebels hiding in the wilderness on various harkonnen worlds, among many other things.
Officer might not be a PrC; I can see it as a valid starting occupation, especially since in the Dune universe having the right blood is often more important than having the right skill for military ranks. Plus, there is no specefic organization linked to 'Officers' as there is to Suk Doctors and Swordmasters.
Master of Assassins? The same way. No particular organization seems tied to such an idea.
Odd skill ranks: You seem to have assumed, as in d20 modern, that all will be of the 'human' race. While not very common, there are some.. altered humans like the face-dancers, and Emperor Leto gives a hint of possible aliens.
To address some of your other comments, though...
Duloth wrote:
Fremen is too specefic; a Barbarian class would apply for the Fremen, those on Salusa secundus, and the rebels hiding in the wilderness on various harkonnen worlds, among many other things.
Fremen are a very specific tribe of people living on a very specific setting. Since play is not isolated, but certainly concentrated on Arrakis, I felt it would be a huge mistake not to include them as their own class, especially since they compose such a large portion of the plot's focus.
Officer might not be a PrC; I can see it as a valid starting occupation, especially since in the Dune universe having the right blood is often more important than having the right skill for military ranks. Plus, there is no specefic organization linked to 'Officers' as there is to Suk Doctors and Swordmasters.
Soldiers (or Warriors, in this case) naturally progress to Officers or Commanders... I think it fits fairly well.
Master of Assassins? The same way. No particular organization seems tied to such an idea.
Ah... The Atreides House Mentat, Thufir refers to himself as "Thufir Hawat, Master of Assassins" in the original Dune novel. Seemed like the right title for a Mentat PrC.
Odd skill ranks: You seem to have assumed, as in d20 modern, that all will be of the 'human' race. While not very common, there are some.. altered humans like the face-dancers, and Emperor Leto gives a hint of possible aliens.
As everyone knows, assumptions make an "ass out of you and upmtions," but for now, you're right. I'm keeping humans (altered as they are) as the main and only playable race in this version.
Hope those answered some of your concerns - and keep those comments coming! I can't fix it if I don't know what's broken.
Steve-OPersonally, the first campaign I'd run would be as a group of rebels on Giedi Prime who intercepted a set of exotic weaponry, or perhaps had a few foreigners and a rogue Sister among them, and set about trying to overthrow the Harkonnen regime. Play would, eventually, end up on Arrakis, but not for the entire game, nor even most of it.
Officers:
Nobles would be more likely to be officers than soldiers. Most non-officers in the military never become officers. You usually start your career as an officer, and end your career as an officer. I can see no valid reason whatsoever to put Officer as a prestige class.
Mentat PrC:
Why does there -NEED- to be a mentat PrC? Can't the base Mentat class cover the necesary ground to be an assassin?
Uhm... Concentrated on Arrakis? -maybe-. Thats like saying play in Starwars is concentrated on Coruscant and the Jedi Council. Not only are there different eras, where Arrakis isn't even known of, or where its not the only source of the spice, but even when it is a main feature of the setting, many just as interesting adventures can be had elsewhere, such as on Caliban or any one of the Harkonnen worlds.
Wow. Um... Not sure what to tell you on this one without being too direct. For starters, I'm sure you meant "Caladan," the planet of House Atreides, as "Caliban" is a pivotal character in William Shakespeare's The Tempest, but yeah, I hear you. Nitpicking aside, concentrating play on Dune in a game called DUNE seems a natural to me. Not sure where to go with this one. Most of the rules set I've designed so far have delved into play specifically on Arrakis.
Personally, the first campaign I'd run would be as a group of rebels on Giedi Prime who intercepted a set of exotic weaponry, or perhaps had a few foreigners and a rogue Sister among them, and set about trying to overthrow the Harkonnen regime. Play would, eventually, end up on Arrakis, but not for the entire game, nor even most of it.
This is exactly why I love roleplaying games... Seventeen different people can play the same game and never repeat a story. I, too, would play first as a group of rebels, but on Arrakis, with a group of Fremen tribesmen fighting the Harkonnen rule. That (to me) is frankly the most interesting time period. Forget the Dune "prequel" novels. Dune is what we make it, and since it's our story to tell... why limit ourselves? Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Officers: Nobles would be more likely to be officers than soldiers. Most non-officers in the military never become officers. You usually start your career as an officer, and end your career as an officer. I can see no valid reason whatsoever to put Officer as a prestige class.
Sounds like you don't need Officers in your game. My advice would be: don't use 'em.
Mentat PrC: Why does there -NEED- to be a mentat PrC? Can't the base Mentat class cover the necesary ground to be an assassin?
Again... If ya don't need 'em, don't use 'em...
The Golden Rule of ALL roleplaying games--heck, games in general-- IF YOU'RE NOT HAVING ANY FUN, DON'T DO IT. Discard what you don't like. Use what you do like.
Other than that, I agree with you totally. :D
Steve-OOriginally posted by Jedi Steve-O
I'm also including the NPC Classes for commoners and professionals who are the hard-working class of the universe, but not adventurers.
Diplomats: Speakers of the Dune universe, minor functionaries and businessmen.
Experts: Craftsmen and professional capable in their own fields.
Thugs: Strong, stout combatants, unsubtle but considerable fighters.
What about Guild Navigators? Or is this better as a racial template?
Originally posted by committed hero
What about Guild Navigators? Or is this better as a racial template?
To me, it just seems that Guild Navigators, while an important part of the Dune story, aren't much in the way of playable characters. 1st- and 2nd-Stage Guild Navigators are still humanoid, and could be played like other humans, but 3rd-Stage Navigators are confined to huge spice-gas filled tanks if they want to be around people; and while folding space is an exciting, important part of the whole Dune mythos, I'm not sure how often it would come into the actual game-play.
I'm willing to listen though, this is just of the top of my head. Like I said, this is for playtesting and experimentation... A racial template is probably the way to go with Guild Navigators, as the Navigators were humans, and mutated over several decades/years, etc.
Thanks again for your comments, and keep 'em coming!
Steve-OAnyway, stats for one should appear somewhere - as a "monster" or something else if need be. It wouldn't be impossible that PCs in a campaign could meet one.
And take its stuff.
Originally posted by committed hero
It wouldn't be impossible that PCs in a campaign could meet one.
And take its stuff.
LOL! But yeah, the racial template thing makes sense. I would assume, though, that you would need three separate templates, one for each of the stages, and you would also have to deal with compatibility issues, since the 'base creature' will sometimes already have one or two of the templates already (like if you advance a first stage to a second stage, for example)
Originally posted by darkpaladin1737
Whenever this gets finished, I wouldn't mind taking a look over this as well, this looks a LOT better than some homebrew crap I've seen before. I agree with you on almost all of it, especially with the centering on Arrakis. Maybe "sourcepages" could be released later for different planets or something like that. Thanks in advance.
No problemo, Paladin. I appreciate your input. Sourcebooks or Source Pages in the form of PDFs are exactly what I was thinking. My good friend in CA is now putting all the acquired data into PDFs for easier distribution and doing the type-setting. I'll let you know as soon as they're available.
Steve-OBarbarian:
HD: d10
BAB: 1/1
Skills: 4 + Int mod
Saves: Fort, Ref Good
Abilities:
1: Environmental Adaptation I: The character can survive for twice as long in harmfull conditions such as extreme heat, extreme cold, lack of oxygen, as normal. He eats and drinks half as much.
2: Resistance: The character gains energy resistance against one element of 2, or Damage Reduction 1/-.
3: Survival Training: The Barbarian gains his class level as a bonus to two skills relevant to surviving in his environment.
4: Environmental Adaptation II: The character can choose a new environment to apply Environmental Adaptation to, or increase the survival multiple by doubling it, or half the amount of food and drink he requires.
6: Resistance: The character can gain a new energy resistance, gain DR, increase an existing resistance by 2, or increase DR by 2.
8: Environmental Adaptation III
9: Survival Training II: THe Barbarian adds a third skill to the list he gains his class level as a bonus to.
10: Resistance
12: Environmental Adaptation IV
14: Resistance
15: Survival Training III: A fourth skill.
16: Environmental Adaptation V
18: Resistance
20: Environmental Adaptation VI
21: Survival Training IV: Fifth skill.
Thanks,
Slingbld~
Brent
Originally posted by bmc0945
yes there is but this is Steve-O's brainchild and you have to ask him for the files. I have see them and I think there great. I now there the draft but there a lot of great stuff in them. but there Steve-O's and I won't share them you need to get them form Steve-O.
Brent
Ok,
Steve-O,
Could you shoot me a copy of your work for review?
I'd love to see what you've done & how it works in with the books & the movies (sci-fi channel, not the Lynch version).
My email is:
slingbld<@>comcastnet
Thanks a bunch!!
Slingbld
Brent
PS: one of my fav.
Voice (Cha)
Weirding Skill; Requires the Weirding Talent and Bindu-Training feats.
You know how to influence others directly, through their nervous system. With proper pitch, your voice can affect their animal-brains, compelling them to do your bidding. Alternately, you can change a target’s perceptions and plant suggestions in another character’s mind.
Check: The result of a Voice check sets the DC for the targets’ Will save. (Note that this skill works best on weak-willed characters.)
Result Will Saving Throw DC
Up to 4 10
5—14 15
15—24 20
25—34 25
35+ 30
Declare whether you’re attempting to compel a character or plant a suggestion when you make your Voice check. If the target’s saving throw fails, you succeed and the target is either compelled to do your bidding or the suggestion is firmly planted.
Retry: Yes, but each time the target succeeds by 5 or more, he gains a +2 morale bonus to resist any further attempts.
Special: You can take 10 when making a Voice check, but you can’t take 20.
Time: Using the Voice is usually a full-round action.
Vitality Point Cost: 2 (suggestion); 4 (compel target).
(by Steve-O)
Originally posted by slingbld
Is there a file compiling all these possible rules available for DL & review?
Thanks,
Slingbld~
You didn't miss it. It's not quite done yet, Slingbld, but I'm working on it... Thanks for your interest and keeping this topic active. As soon as it's available, we'll post something on this thread.
:embarass Thanks for the high praise, Brent. You're too kind.
Steve-OP.S. If anyone knows somebody in the HR dept. of Monte Cook's website, The Game Mechanics or :inlove:Green Ronin, lemme know if they're hiring! :D
Brent.
TruthTrance (Wis)
Weirding Skill; Requires the Weirding training feat.
You can reach into the spice essence to read a target’s surface emotions, getting a sense of the target’s general state of mind.
Check: A Truthtrance check allows you to sense a target’s general mood, attitude, and emotional state. You can tell if the target is happy, sad, angry, or indifferent. The target get to make a Will save (DC 10 + you Weirding-using level) to resist your empathic probe. This save is a reaction that the target isn’t even aware of. The target doesn’t know his emotions are being read. If the target’s save fails, you get a sense of the target’s mood. Determining that target’s mood grants a Prana-Bindu bonus on the next skill check you make against the target within the next 10 rounds (1 minute) using one of the following interaction skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Entertain, or Sense Motive.
Result Prana-Bindu bonus to interaction skills
Up to 4__________________________+1
5 – 14___________________________+2
15 – 24__________________________+3
25 – 34__________________________+4
35+_____________________________+5
Retry: You can’t use Truthtrance on the same target again until after 24 hours have passed.
Special: You can take 10 when making a Truthtrance check, but you can’t take 20. A charater with Compassion feat gets a +2 aptitude bonus on Truthtranc checks.
Time: Truthtrance is an attack action. The prana-bindu bonus lasts for 10 rounds (1minute) or until you make a skill check against the target using one of the interaction skills listed above.
Vitality Point Cost: 2
(Personally, I'm a big fan of the title: D20une, but then, I am a known weirdo.)
Combat Focus (Wis)
Weirding Skill; Trained Only; Requires the Weirding Talent and Bindu-Training feats.
Using your Bindu training to enhance your concentration and commitment to battle, you can increase your prowess in combat.
Check: A Combat Focus check grants a Weirding bonus on attack rolls as shown on the table below. You can decide to select a bonus that’s less than the result you achieve.
Result Weirding Bonus to Attack
Up to 4__________+1
5—14___________+2
15—24__________+3
25—34__________+4
35+____________+5
Special: You can take 10 when making a Combat Focus check, but not 20.
Time: Activating Combat Focus is a move action. The Weirding bonus lasts for 10 rounds (1 minute).
Vitality Point Cost: 2 + vitality points equal to the bonus achieved. So, if the result provides a +2 Weirding bonus, the vitality point cost is 4.
And now... My very first character for D20une!
Malek, Son of Corag
Malek is young Fremen of the Red Stone Sietch on Arrakis. Now sixteen years old, Malek is a full-fledged member of his tribe.
A handsome and charismatic sixteen-year old boy with exotic features and an iron will, Malek is a whipcord-lean 2 meters of well-disciplined muscle. He wears his jet black hair long and tied back, braided with water rings. His blue-within-blue eyes (denoting his addiction to the native spice) are sharp as the hawk’s. When not in his stillsuit, his young body shows the many scars he has already accrued.
On a recent mission to raid a Harkonnen outpost, Malek’s older brother Tuek was captured and savagely tortured to death by the hated enemy. Malek has sworn revenge against the cruel Harkonnen and lives to spill their foul blood and claim their water for his tribe.
Malek
Fremen 1; CR 1; Medium-size male human; Vitality Die 1d12; VP/WP 14/15; Init +4 (Dex + Blooded); Spd 10m; Def 14, touch 14, flat-footed 12; BAB +1; Grap +2; Atk +2 melee (1d4+1, unarmed), +3 melee (1d6+1/20, crysknife); Full Atk +2 melee (1d4+1, unarmed), +3 melee (1d6+1/20, crysknife); SQ Eyes of Ibad, desert creature; AL Tribe, brother’s revenge, Haali; SV Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +2; Wealth +5; AP 5 [1d6]; Reputation +0; Str 12 [+1], Dex 14 [+2], Con 15 [+2], Int 10, Wis 14 [+2], Cha 13 [+1]. Height 2m.
Occupation: Fremen (skills: Hide, Survival; feat: Tough As Nails).
Skills [4/2]: Balance +2, Climb +3, Hide +7, Listen +6, Move Silently +5 (+9 in desert), Ride +2, Spot +8 (+10 in desert), and Survival +6.
Feats: Blooded, Combat Martial Arts, Tough As Nails, Simple Weapons Proficiency.
Possessions: Jubba cloak, stillsuit, unfixed crysknife, Fremkit, maker hooks, still-tent, 2 thumpers.
NEW FEAT
Tough As Nails [Initial]
You can take punishment and come back for more.
Prerequisite: Con 13+.
Benefit: Your vitality die increases by one type (d6 to d8, d8 to d10, d10 to d12), to a maximum of d12.
Normal: Your vitality die tpe is determined by your basic class.
Special: You may take this feat at 1st level only.
Try those out...
Steve-O Steve-OP.S. What type-o's?! :
Originally posted by bmc0945
I'v had abot three days looking over the files. I think there great. there are the normal type-o's and the like but that to be expected from the draft...
:D I'm sure there are more than a few...
Brent
Originally posted by Jedi Steve-O
Looks good, Brent. I really like the TruthTrance power...
P.S. What type-o's?! :
:D I'm sure there are more than a few...
Any update on when a preview of what you've doen may be available?
Being a rather HUGE fan of the Sci-Fi movies & having started to read the 1st book (I know, 29 years old & I'm just now diving into this classic!!), I'm REALY pumped to see what's been done. I also have a group I'd like to run in just this kind of setting.
(IM)Patiently excited,
Slingbld~
Originally posted by Jedi Steve-O
Nitpicking aside, concentrating play on Dune in a game called DUNE seems a natural to me.?
Are you going to let the title be a strait-jacket? Do you think that Babylon 5 games can only take place on the B5 station? Or that all Star Wars games should be set during the Rebellion Era? Or that Star Trek games should only allow PCs who belong to the Federation?
Dune is what we make it, and since it's our story to tell... why limit ourselves?
Yeah, that's kind of the point. Why limit yourself to one planet when there's a whole galaxy out there?
Originally posted by bmc0945
Check: The result of a Voice check sets the DC for the target's Will save. (Note that this skill works best on weak-willed characters.)
Result Will Saving Throw DC
Up to 4 10
5-14 15
15-24 20
25-34 25
35+ 30
Wouldn't it be easier to just let the Will save DC be equal to the skill check, instead of requiring players to consult a chart?
Originally posted by bmc0945
A type-O is a spelling error or a miss space ect.
Actually, that's a typo (short for "typographical error"). Type-O is the universal blood donor.
But realy there not that many. I only found a hand full. that realy good for what 86 pages.
Says the guy who made 11 mistakes in four short sentences.
Wyvern
Based on the other thread...
"Remember that being a Noble has to do with the way you were raised; it has little to do with metagame benefits. Nobles come in all different "types", too. The oldest son, groomed to be the successor, is probably a Charismatic, while one of the younger children becomes a military commander, another goes to university and becomes a researcher, another becomes an administrator, and ... well, I don't think noble families were that big :D
I think most nobles would be Charismatic Ordinaries (kissing butt = Diplomacy, Bluff and Sense Motive all being required for surviving as a noble, even if you're not the oldest son). I think Paul Atreides would start off as Fast with maybe a little Charismatic, then go onto Tough and Charismatic once he joined forces with the Fremen."
In any event I have an idea for the Voice. It may or may not synergize well with your idea, and may be too complicated.
Using the Voice requires you to observe and "measure" your opponent first, before you use the Voice on them.
There would be two checks, one to see if you can measure your victim and the second to see if they are actually affected.
The first would get a massive bonus (say, +10) if you use the Spice but the Spice grants no modifier to the second check.
I noticed the Star Wars-style method of seeing if the skill works and setting the save DC, which could work. I wonder if you could boost the skill check with the Spice, but only for purposes of it working (and not boosting the save DC)?
I appreciate all your comments and that's a great idea about the Voice, actually - using the spice as a bonus to measuring your opponent...
I've actually designed my version of Dune twice(!) now...
First time using the d20 Modern-style, and the second time with the Star Wars-style, and I think I prefer the latter, and that's the one I'm sticking with (for now). I like both systems and this was not an easy decision. It just makes things like Vitality/Wound Points and Prana-Bindu powers easier to fit in to the whole.
Steve-ORemember kids, youth and skill are no match for old age and treachery!
While I know that I have not really added my opinion to this thread I do love the Dune universe and think that a D20 Dune would be an awsome thing. So I was wondering that when you are done can you send me a copy. My email address is [email=carlpelleg@aol.com]carlpelleg@aol.com[/email].
Thank you
Steve-OSo if it's of a quality then you might want to ask the powers that be at WOTC for permission.
Word of advice though they've had the completed last unicorn game for a couple of years and done nothng with it so I guess they're not much intrested in pursuing it (shame the LUG game was pretty good)
Originally posted by Wyvern76
Yeah, that's kind of the point. Why limit yourself to one planet when there's a whole galaxy out there?
Wyvern
Arrakis may be the hub around which the Empire revolves, but don't mistake it for the whole wheel
When I say I intend to "play mostly on Arrakis," I just mean exactly that. Mostly. Not all. Not entirely. Just mostly. Sure, there'll be other worlds. The whole galaxy is filled with planets and Noble Houses feuding and warring and across the Imperium... But it's called Dune, and for me, personally, myself, the stories of the Fremen on Arrakis are what interest me most.
Play wherever you like. It's a free universe.
Steve-OOriginally posted by darkpaladin1737:
The reason WOTC hasn't gone on with the DUNE game is because the Herbert estate has asked for way too much royalty money to make it commercially viable, not because they don't see it as a good idea.
This issue seems to pop up every once in a while in message boards... "The last I heard...," or "This is what I know...," and that sort of thing.
I personally don't know. Seriously. I don't have the foggiest idea. I've heard the rumors, like everyone else, but I don't know for sure. I don't work for WotC, or LUG or the Herbert Estate. I don't know anybody who does. I just know that I want to play in the Dune universe and I'm sick of waiting for them to do whatever it is they have to do to make that happen... so I've decided to do it myself. The folks at Wizards of the Coast have been kind enough to make this possible with their posting of the Open Game License and making their d20 system public domain.
I've played enough rpgs and GM'ed enough sessions and read enough core rule books and bought enough supplements to know what I want in a game. You have, too, probably. :D
Steve-OMuad'Dib suggested a few eras to start with... Here are a couple of options, as far as time periods go:
Personally, I'm interested in the nebulous time period of the Harkonnen rule of Arrakis... something like 80 years (if memory serves) of brutal oppression to work through. Two, even three generations of hatred... Again, my first group will most likely be Fremen fighting back against their hated Harkonnen stewards... but that's just me.
Steve-OA while back, Muad'Dib himself asked about exactly what time period d20 DUNE would be set in. My gut response was, "Why set it at all? Play where and when you want," but for some strange reason, I'm probably the only one with this cavalier attitude towards eras.
snip
Personally, I'm interested in the nebulous time period of the Harkonnen rule of Arrakis... something like 80 years (if memory serves) of brutal oppression to work through. Two, even three generations of hatred... Again, my first group will most likely be Fremen fighting back against their hated Harkonnen stewards... but that's just me
Why not set it in the period that is the height of the Imperium. While this of course more work, it would allow us to build a campaign before the fall of the Imperium.
By the way, you are dooing a good job and don't let anybody tell you different.
I just wish I could do such a thing. Anyway, keep it up.Originally posted by adam_adamant
Arrakis may be the hub around which the Empire revolves, but don't mistake it for the whole wheel
Actually, didn't God Emperor of Dune refer to Galaxies? As in, multiple ones?
It assumes your PCs will be the members of a House Minor, serving one of the Great Houses of the Landsraad - i.e. it is focused away from Arrakis. For me the political aspects of the Imperium are more interesting than it's eventual desturction at the hands of the Fremen. So the ideas of Kanly, the Landsraad, CHOAM, Ginaz Swordmasters, shielded combat, Lasguns, dirty Tleilax, cunning Bene Gessirit, tense intrigue and politics et cetera need to be served by the campaign. I think I am goin' to try d20 Modern - and would be very interested in your original take on the system Steve_O - I have emailed you seperately (verificat-at-hotmail.com)
I agree with the above poster who suggests that the d20 modern starting career overlays - are of great use - considering you start as a Sword Master, Noble, Bene Gesserit, Assassin. And then use the Tough, Fast, Determined hero to explore that character idea - so you are Dune Characters from the very start - not distant prestige classes.
There is also some folks looking at this on Monte Cookes website.
actualy i have been running my own little dune d20 game for about a month now, its going ok. I took alot from starwars and made up the rest; its mostly roleplaying. I noticed however that you have neglected to mention templates for Honard Matres and Fish speakers. Although these are timeline specific, my game is running just after the Scattering returns so i have included Honard Matres in it. I would post my class however i wildly overpowered all things (i have allowed facedancers ect.) It seemed the only way for adventure to pogress not being centered around Fremen. To travel anywhere the players would need to be rich or work for a orginizatin and thus start relativly trained.for Honard Matre attacks i gave them a system that gave multiple attacks at their base attack bonus for instance they may have a attack number of 2 so they get 2 attacks at their BAB or at later levels 3 so they get 3 attacks at their BAB. when they develop their extra attacks due to BAB each they would get 3 at +6 and 3 at +1, This applied only to unarmed attacks and their unarmed attacks were weak, I thought this captured the idea that they had faster attack then the BG but not as powerful an attack. The BG were done similerly but they got less attacks and more powerful dmg.
Again though my game is mostly RP and i'm sure it would have serious balance issues if it was hack and slash lol. So if anyone here actualy gets a players handbook type thing done i'd love a copy
[email]pj34@hotmail.com[/email]
Fremen
- Base speed 30 ft./10 m
- Medium size
- +2 Con, -2 Cha. Fremen are a hardy breed of humanity but have little patience or tolerance with outsiders
- +2 Racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks
- +4 Racial bonus to Survival checks in a desert setting
- Fremen culture tends to be violent, with tests of strength being very frequent. All fremen get Weapon Focus [crysknife/dagger] as a bonus feat at 1st level
- Spice addiction: Melange permeates fremen culture so thorougly that fremen are considered addicted to spice.
just a few thoughts
Ahem. Sorry. Good point, but I don't think the "force of personality" that you mention isn't a cultural trait so much as a few individuals having a high charisma and wisdom.
Oh yeah, remember also that Duncan Idaho mentioned that they "Stink to high heaven". I seem to recall something about this being due to the fact that they wear stillsuits a lot, and when you consider that they process urine and feces... ick.
sorry for my grammer and spelling i know its horable hope that makes some sense
Originally posted by Tathel
However now that i think it over fremen had a very prescient type nature due to their long exposer to spice, It is said they have prescient visions during their spice oragies, to me this would seem to sugest a high or average charisma (natural talent) they also play insturments with the same regularity as other humans.
I'd think that prescience would be tied to Wisdom, not Charisma. As for playing instruments, that's reflected by ranks in the Perform skills. The Charisma penalty just means that Fremen would have a harder time making a good impression on an audience. No, it's not entirely logical, but neither is giving a Charisma penalty to dwarves, who are just as likely to have "strong personalities". (Personally, I think dwarves should have a -2 Dex instead, but that's neither here nor there.)
Wyvern
Originally posted by Wyvern76
I'd think that prescience would be tied to Wisdom, not Charisma. As for playing instruments, that's reflected by ranks in the Perform skills. The Charisma penalty just means that Fremen would have a harder time making a good impression on an audience. No, it's not entirely logical, but neither is giving a Charisma penalty to dwarves, who are just as likely to have "strong personalities". (Personally, I think dwarves should have a -2 Dex instead, but that's neither here nor there.)
Wyvern
Well, if you wanna go that route, then the next best thing I can think to penalize them for is actually Intelligence. Fremen life is a daily grind to survive, and most of the intelligence-based skills would be viewed as frivolities that they generally don't have time for, whot with surviving trips across the sands and killing harkonnens. You could make a few arguments (Like say, for Craft or Search ), but by and large, most of the Int-linked skills are things that the fremen can't really be bothered with. Perhaps just one more reason that they idolized Pardot Kynes' ideas
Originally posted by Jedi Steve-O
Hey guys, I really appreciate all the input on my d20 Dune project, and I want to encourage all the constructive criticism, "but..." here's the deal: I'm just one man. I'm designing a game I want to play with my group. I'm including rules for space travel and other planets, rules loose enough to play and use, but not restrictive--sort of freeform, designed for expansion.
I agree whole heartedly!!
Just work on what YOU want to use & play with. Post that material when you are ready (soon I REALY hope!!!) and if someone who grabs it would like to add additional material, you have laid the foundation for them to build upon. Let them take it to a more intergalactic scale.
My 2 cents,
Slingbld~
1. Shield Combat: I think that to model this in D20 it would have to go something like this:
a. Shields have very high DR, since they provided protection against more-or-less any physcial attack, up to and including heavy artillery. Say in the 15 to 20 range.
b. Shields are effective against all weapons dealing Piercing, Bludgeoning, Slashing or Ballistic types of damage, as well as most types of energy damage. A new damage category, called Low Velocity, is not affected by shields, and includes weapons such as Maula Pistols and Stunners (which the Dune glossary classifies as shield-bypassing weapons).
c. "The slow blade penetrates the shield" Characters may take a penalty to their melee attack rolls to reduce the DR of their opponent's shield. This would be fairly generous to start with, say -1 to hit, -2 shield DR, and would improve with feats, ect.
2. The question that I'm wondering is how did Frank Herbert, or how do you, imagine non-duelling combat takes place in the Dune universe? It seems to be implied that everybody has shields, which implies that all combat either takes place in melee or uses anti-shield weapons. This seems, especially for mass warfare, a little bizzare. Any thoughts?
Originally posted by Interpol99
I've had some ideas and questions about Dune-style combat kicking around for a while, so I'd be interested in seeing what kind of answers/comments yoiu guys may have.
1. Shield Combat: I think that to model this in D20 it would have to go something like this:
a. Shields have very high DR, since they provided protection against more-or-less any physcial attack, up to and including heavy artillery. Say in the 15 to 20 range.
Seems to fit. Alternately the Fading Suns d20 adaptation (which tried semi-successfully to merge 40k with dune) had "shield thresholds". Any successful attack had a chance of being turned aside by shield activation. Basically some number set by the sheild type was the activation DC. The amount of damage was subtracted from that DC, and then a d20 was rolled. If the roll succeeded, the shield activated and deflected the attack (and came one activation closer to burnout) If not... ouch. Thus it made more sense to attack a shielded opponent with, say, a shortsword instead of a battleaxe.
b. Shields are effective against all weapons dealing Piercing, Bludgeoning, Slashing or Ballistic types of damage, as well as most types of energy damage. A new damage category, called Low Velocity, is not affected by shields, and includes weapons such as Maula Pistols and Stunners (which the Dune glossary classifies as shield-bypassing weapons).
I dunno about this, man. Seems like needless overcomplication. Rather than introducing a whole new damage type, wouldn't it just be simpler to just note that some weapons bypass shields? Also, I don't recall a maula pistol being a shield-bypasser, but I don't have my book with glossary handy at the moment.
c. "The slow blade penetrates the shield" Characters may take a penalty to their melee attack rolls to reduce the DR of their opponent's shield. This would be fairly generous to start with, say -1 to hit, -2 shield DR, and would improve with feats, ect.
Ehh.. once again, seems needlessly complcating. The way I see it, putting the slow blade through seems to be more a matter of muscle control. Thus, if someone was whaling away for all they were worth, they would get squat for their efforts. It takes fine control to push a blade through juuuuust fast enough to retain killing power while not activating the shield. THis lends itself to piercing weapons over slashing weapons, which is fairly well supported by the fact that everyone refers to using daggers in combat but nobody ever refers to an axe for example.
Now, it's fairly well-known that the slow blade penetrates, but I don't think your typical grunt will get too much training in that (see below). So it would seem like a feat. How's about this?
Shield Fighting [General]
You are trained in techniques for getting attacks through a body shield
Prerequisite: Uhh...
Benefit: You may make a single shield penetrating attack as a full attack action. You may not apply your strength bonus to attack or damage. If successful, your attack ignores your opponent's shield DR.
Normal: Making a shield-penetrating attack is at a -6 penalty
2. The question that I'm wondering is how did Frank Herbert, or how do you, imagine non-duelling combat takes place in the Dune universe? It seems to be implied that everybody has shields, which implies that all combat either takes place in melee or uses anti-shield weapons. This seems, especially for mass warfare, a little bizzare. Any thoughts?
Hrm... good question. He mentions a few times about the mutually-destructive shield/laser combo that effectively moved combat back to the medieval, but it seems that projectile/ballistic weapons are not totally outmoded, either (the baron carries one concealed in his fat rolls when confronting feyd about a failed assassination attempt).
What this says to me is that shields are more common/cheaper/easier to produce, meaning it would make more sense to equip front-line troops with sheilds than lasguns. Even if the enemy used lasguns, the destruction would be on both sides (both the sheild and the lasgun explode loudly), making the defense easy meat for a second wave. However, shield duelling isn't really that practical for pitched battle, and have a certain noble image to them, and there's also the fact that they can't be that cheap.
Thus it seems fair to assume that any great house worth its salt will give shields to its nobility, generals/officers, and best fighting men and women. These shock troops would be the spearhead of assaults and would have to be met with similarly shielded and trained individuals.
The rest of the rank-and-file soldiers and retainers are never really expounded upon, so I think it's anyone's guess. Myself, I tend to think they use good old fashioned slugthrowers with a nasty shortsword that they call a knife for backup. Lasguns would be sparingly issued and then only to specially trained troops who could recognize a holtzman shield in use. Even then, it's dangerous. Sure the guy ten paces away doesn't have a shield, so you can laser 'im all you want, but what if the beam goes through him and the guy five paces behind him has a sheild? If the reaction is minimal and you're lucky enough to survive, at the very least, your squadmates will be a while in letting you back into the cheops league :D
The only exceptions to this, I think, would be the sardaukar. It's mentioned several times that the balance in the landsraad is with the emporer, his atomics, and the sardaukar on one side with the rest of the great houses, their atomics, and all their combined forces balancing things on the other. Such a ridiculously elite force is almost assuredly equipped with shields almost to the man, making them invulnerable to ballistics and artillery. They're more than willing to commit double suicide by charging someone with a lasgun. That leaves the only viable way to fight them being at short range with melee weapons and sheild-penetrating weapons. You know: on the Sardaukar's terms
Whew. Okay, I could probably say more, but I have to go home now. Later.
Just keeping this topic on the front page This is deffinitely gonna be worth the wait me thinks
Slingbld~
Just checking in to update the status of the d20 Dune game I've been working on. Had to take a little break near the end of the semester, but now that summer's here I've been cranking out stuff for Dune. It's really close to being done, and in fact, I've already started beta-testing the combat system (Weirding powers are still tricky) and character creation. When it's finished, it should be worthy of sitting next to any game on the shelves out there. I'm proud of this baby, but I don't want to rush it, either.
Steve-OOriginally posted by Jedi Steve-O
Hello all,
Just checking in to update the status of the d20 Dune game I've been working on. Had to take a little break near the end of the semester, but now that summer's here I've been cranking out stuff for Dune. It's really close to being done, and in fact, I've already started beta-testing the combat system (Weirding powers are still tricky) and character creation. When it's finished, it should be worthy of sitting next to any game on the shelves out there. I'm proud of this baby, but I don't want to rush it, either.
Please do not rush this one!!
I may nag from time to time for updates but please don't take that as a person wanting you to be rushed!!
Slingbld~
Maula Pistol from the books
Electro-stunner: Herbert calls it a slow-pellet weapon. Not exactly sure what he means.
Gas Projector: Basically a reversed vaccuum cleaner that's man-portable. It's range would be relatively short and the velocity of the gas particles probably isn't all that high, but depending on what you put in it, this thing could be very deadly. I suppose that acid would work too.
Flamethrower: Same general idea; the liquid isn't moving all that fast, and since it's relatively dispersed, it shouldhave some sort of chance of "leaking" through.
Cannister Rifle: No, not the one from Starcraft. Basically I was thinking of a large, low-velocity shotgun whose ammo would disintegrate near or on contact with the shield. This would release a load of low-velocity pellets that deal the actual damage, but can penetrate the shield because they are travelling at a slower velocity than the cannister.
Ixian Tractor Rifle: Very high tech; not sure if its appropriate for Dune. The gun would use a sensor to identify the target and guides to bullet to it down a gravity-beam tunnel, just like a tractor beam (which Herbert says they do have in Ix). As the bullet gets close to the target, the beam switches from guidance to decelleration, slowing hte bullet down enough to penetrate the shield.
TOW Rifle: Wire guided, this weapon's bullets are about the size of crossbow bolts. The operator can trigger special velocity-cutting surfaces to appear as it aproaches the target. Something like a dragchute, but not as extreme.
Contact grenades: Explode on imact, so a skillful thrower can toss them through the shield without setting it off. This could also apply to HE ammo, since that kind of bullet doesn't have to travel very fast to hurt people.
Oh yeah, as a final note, I think that we should remember that Dune was written as a novel and not as a roleplaying game. It's not somehow sacriligious to add stuff of our own, as long as its up to the same standards as the original. In fact, I think it may be downright necessary in some cases.
Originally posted by Interpol99
...And just as a request, if anyone does have a better grasp of these things, I think we'd all love to hear from you.
Oh yeah, as a final note, I think that we should remember that Dune was written as a novel and not as a roleplaying game. It's not somehow sacreligious to add stuff of our own, as long as its up to the same standards as the original. In fact, I think it may be downright necessary in some cases.
I agree! In fact, just between you, me and the lurkers, I actually like the Weirding Modules that David Lynch et al. invented for the movie. Yeah, yeah, I know... "It wasn't in the books..." So what? I like it, and I've come up with some pretty simple sonic damage weapons.
Glad to see everyone's still interested in this project, and I'm working hard to have a finished product soon. Keep the posts coming!
Steve-OOriginally posted by Interpol99
I'm not much of an expert on Herbert's shield physics, or even physics in general, so I'll apologize in advance for anything stupid. And just as a request, if anyone does have a better grasp of these things, I think we'd all love to hear from you.
Okay then...
Electro-stunner: Herbert calls it a slow-pellet weapon. Not exactly sure what he means.
A weapon that shoots slow-moving pellets, maybe?
Gas Projector: Basically a reversed vaccuum cleaner that's man-portable. It's range would be relatively short and the velocity of the gas particles probably isn't all that high, but depending on what you put in it, this thing could be very deadly. I suppose that acid would work too.
Good idea; you'd have to be careful about the wind direction, though, or you might get a cloud of acidic fumes blowing back in your face.
Cannister Rifle: No, not the one from Starcraft. Basically I was thinking of a large, low-velocity shotgun whose ammo would disintegrate near or on contact with the shield. This would release a load of low-velocity pellets that deal the actual damage, but can penetrate the shield because they are travelling at a slower velocity than the cannister.
I like the concept; only problem is that objects inside a moving container has the same velocity as a container (that's why car high-speed car crashes are so deadly; the car comes to a sudden stop, but the passengers keep moving forward at 60 mph).
Ixian Tractor Rifle: Very high tech; not sure if its appropriate for Dune. The gun would use a sensor to identify the target and guides to bullet to it down a gravity-beam tunnel, just like a tractor beam (which Herbert says they do have in Ix). As the bullet gets close to the target, the beam switches from guidance to decelleration, slowing hte bullet down enough to penetrate the shield.
So it basically "drops" the bullet on the target? Cool.
TOW Rifle: Wire guided, this weapon's bullets are about the size of crossbow bolts. The operator can trigger special velocity-cutting surfaces to appear as it aproaches the target. Something like a dragchute, but not as extreme
How is the operator going to react fast enough to cut the velocity before the bolt reaches the target? Maybe you should have a dial on the weapon to adjust the length of the wire according to the target range, and when the bolt reaches the end of the wire it flies off, triggering the "chute" automatically.
Along a similar line, a harpoon gun could be a pretty deadly anti-shield weapon.
Wyvern
How's the project comming?
I hope you are just as energetic about it now as you were 2-3 months ago!
Keep up the good work!!
Slingbld~
WhizO Steve-OGiven that the tech levels in Dune vary widely, I think that it would be a pretty good idea to create a second equipment list. It would contain all the rare, forbidden and high-tech items that match D&D magic items in terms of availability and power.
Ixian Equipment
Tractor Beam: I think anyone who's seen the Half-Life 2 previews has probably got a million ideas for what to do with these things. There could be multiple sizes, each one equivalent to a different strength and size of creature. It would also be worth writing some quick rules on damage dealt by thrown objects (number of damage dice related to size, type of dice related to composition/shape of object, for example).
Weight Neutralizer: These came up in Alternity, and although their exact method of functioning was never specified, they could lower the weight of any metallic object ther were clipped on to. Same kind of thing that Jabba's Minions used to float Han Solo's frozen body around with, I believe.
Tractor Beam Rifle: This is just a reprint from the shield-penetrating weapons list. I suppose there could potentially be many similar weapons, but I'm stuck on just what form they would take.
Repulsor Boots: This armored footgear can serve two functions. On low and constant power, the act like stilts, raising the character's feet above the ground (probably to a maximum of a meter or two). On the "overload" setting, they hurl the character through the air like jump jets. I know I'd want a pair of these if I was playing Dune; they're like rocket boots, only cooler.
Shield Bubble Generator: Basically just a large-radius shield generator. The book implies that there are generators large enough to cover cities. It might be a good idea to make the breakdown: personal, tank-sized, starship-sized, palace-sized, city-sized.
Tether Missile: Basically the opposite of the weight neutralizer, these small, adhesive devices increase the pull of gravity on whatever they hit. Only effective on planetary surfaces, they allow a slow, powerful combatant to "pin down" faster enemies.
Attraction Mines: A reversed-polarity shield. It attracts all metal objects towards itself. This could get complicated in terms of retargetting attacks, but it would be very useful if the heroes need to cross an open space in the face of significant enemy resistance. Just toss one of these things out and you're good to go.
Image Displacement Field: This holographic generator breaks up the user's outline, creating a swirling pattern of shapes and colors. Would grant concealment bonuses, but makes the user [i]very[i/] obvious to observers.
Stealth Suit: A more advanced form of the image displacement field, this armor uses a network of cameras and a powerful computer to project images of whatever is behind the suit on to the front and vice-versa. Not very effective up close or when moving.
Psych Sword: This item is apparently in the books, although I never read far enough to verify this. It's basically a sword hilt stuffed with computers and microcircuitry, along with a thin monowire conealed inside a holographic swordblade. When it "stabs" somebody, the monowire transmits nerve impulses to the brain as if a real swordblade had connected. This weapon is therefore capable of killing without leaving a mark (except for the miniature puncture wounds).
Nuclear Stuff: I think all players love the thought of personal nuclear weaponry. The items which come to mind immediately are micro-nukes (a few kilotons) and depleted uranium bullets. I'm sure there are other things too (dirty bombs, radiation guns or whatever), but I don't really know enough about this to say anything definitive.
Telaxiu Stuff
Monocrys: Short for monocrystal, these living blades hone themselves to a razor-sharp edge less than a molecule wide at the tip. They would be the Dune equivalent to vorpal weapons.
Blood drinkers: Small organic daggers that absorb blood on contact, dealing constitution damage in addition to regular hit point loss. Blood also causes them to degrade, so that within a minute of attacking the victim, the murder weapon disappears.
Kamikaze: This potent drug/virus reconfigures much of the user's bodily fluids to create a very powerful organic bomb that will go off if the user is reduced to less than 10 hit points (4D10 acid damage, 10-foot radius. If the user does not die before the effects wear off, he suffers constitution damage instead.
Boing-go (needs a better name): Boing-go works by adjusting the subject’s internal chemistry to make him more flexible and resilient effectively creating a human slinky. This confers DR 10 vs. bludgeoning damage and allows the character to treat all falls as if they were 50% shorter. Boing-go also provides a +2 boost to Dexterity and +4 on all Jump checks.
Synth-skin: I can see two possible applications for this. The first is as a spray-on healing solution, the second is as a spray-on disguise (perhaps allowing the character to emulate the facedancer's abilities?).
Just posting an update on the status of this (hopefully) highly anticipated game.
To review, here are some things I'm including in my new d20 Dune game:
- Vitality / Wound Points
- House Allegiances (instead of starting occupations)
- Dozens of New Feats
- Several New Skills (and new uses for old skills)
- 7 Brand New Starting Classes (including Bene Gesserit, Fremen, and Mentat)
- 6 Advanced Classes (including Suk Doctor, Ginaz Swordmaster and Sardaukar Terror Trooper)
- Shield Combat Rules
- Prana-Bindu and Weirding Powers
- Templates for Spice Addiction and Gholas
- All new equipment, vehicles and monsters
Steve-OYou may now return to your work.
Just a question: are you going to include a quick space travel section? And what about the guild steersman?
All that aside, I'm glad that we finally have a functional Dune d20 almost done! Good job, Jedi Steve-O
Originally posted by legacyheir
...Just a question: are you going to include a quick space travel section? And what about the guild steersman?...
Thanks for the praise (and the quick response), fellas. I've done some thinking, and I want to include a "Rogue-ish" type of basic class to add in to the mix for all the illegal activities in the universe, and I'm working up a Scientist or Engineer basic class as well.
As for the Guild Navigators and space travel... My thoughts are that Guild Navigators, while easily one of the coolest aspects of the game, are not necessarily condusive to a playable character -- and by that, I mean a character that would fit in well with a group of other characters on an adventure... I know this is a matter of some debate, but I've thought alot about it and Guild Navigators, no matter how "cool," don't lend themselves very easily to group play.
I've also kept humans as the "base" race for the game. The player characters are assumed to be humans, with Fremen, etc., being a class, rather than a different species.
I've included a system for House Allegiances in place of the starting occupations, that give bonuses to loyal subjects and members of the royal houses of the Landsraad, encouraging that type of play.
As of this writing, I'm also omitting stats for the sandworms, with the exception of a note on their speed for riding purposes.
Suggestions? Comments? Questions? Connundrums?
Whiz-O Steve-OFirst post you did today:
To review, here are some things I'm including in my new d20 Dune game:
Vitality / Wound Points
House Allegiances (instead of starting occupations)
Dozens of New Feats
Several New Skills (and new uses for old skills)
7 Brand New Starting Classes (including Bene Gesserit, Fremen, and Mentat)
6 Advanced Classes (including Suk Doctor, Ginaz Swordmaster and Sardaukar Terror Trooper)
Shield Combat Rules
Prana-Bindu and Weirding Powers
Templates for Spice Addiction and Gholas
All new equipment, vehicles and monsters
Very good, I really think you cover it all.
But I would just like to ask a question: Does telepathy play any part in the Dune universe that your including in your rpg? I ask because in the prequel books (which I don't know if you consider cannon or really bad) they have certain individuals who possess telepathy-like powers.
Second post you did today:
Thanks for the praise (and the quick response), fellas. I've done some thinking, and I want to include a "Rogue-ish" type of basic class to add in to the mix for all the illegal activities in the universe, and I'm working up a Scientist or Engineer basic class as well.
I think those three base classes are really needed. I mean, while scientific advancement is not really that a big thing it does play a part in the general universe. Their are people who do spend their life making sure what they have still works (engineers). In addition, most houses probably have some sort of small reserach division (scientists) so they can keep up with the other houses.
As for the Guild Navigators and space travel... My thoughts are that Guild Navigators, while easily one of the coolest aspects of the game, are not necessarily condusive to a playable character -- and by that, I mean a character that would fit in well with a group of other characters on an adventure... I know this is a matter of some debate, but I've thought alot about it and Guild Navigators, no matter how "cool," don't lend themselves very easily to group play.
Does this mean that you won't be giving any information on them, or just that whatever information you do give will be geared towards game masters rather than players.
I've also kept humans as the "base" race for the game. The player characters are assumed to be humans, with Fremen, etc., being a class, rather than a different species.
This really makes sense and works fine. But couldn't you also have set it up so that besides the normal features for being human they get a feat or a skill bonus based on House or other such allegiance. I belive that Wheel of Time D20 has such a thing (that is of course only if you have access to that book, I don't know if you have read Wheel of Time).
As of this writing, I'm also omitting stats for the sandworms, with the exception of a note on their speed for riding purposes.
Is this really a good idea. I mean what happens if a character wants to take on a sandworm. They are going to need to know what hit points and other such things are. I really don't think that it needs to be comprehensive but a little rpg data would allow for more highly developed adventures.
All in all you seem to be putting a great amount of effort into the work. Congratulations on having the patience to do this from the first word all the way to the final copy.
When this is finally finished it is going to be so cool.
Let's see if I can answer some of your questions and add some responses of my own...You asked first about telepathy... At this time, there are plans for limited telepathic powers, (as well as precognition and metabolic control among others) through high-level training of Prana-Bindu. As it stands now, the player doesn't always control what he hears/thinks,
but I should probably take a closer look at the Dune prequel books (even if they aren't technically considered "canon").As for the new classes: Yeah, I looked it over, and the more objective I was, the more I realized a scientist and/or engineer type, along with a rogue/thief type was needed. I'm trying to make the game as the Master Designer DaVinci said - "Nothing superfluous and nothing lacking." :D (Sure, he was speaking of Nature, but I like the idea.)
I will be covering the Guild Navigators... one could hardly write a book (or even a mere roleplaying game) about the Dune universe without mentioning these amazing creatures... But, yes, the bulk fo the information will be for the GM, rather than players.
General Felire wrote: This [base human race] really makes sense and works fine. But couldn't you also have set it up so that besides the normal features for being human they get a feat or a skill bonus based on House or other such allegiance?
In fact, this is exactly how the new House Allegiance system is set up. I've taken a page from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed and have been starting 1st level characters with an inital feat, and either a talent or bonus feat at 1st level.
If you are aligned to a noble House, you get a starting feat as per the normal d20 rules, plus you may choose an initial talent (instead of a second feat). But, if you choose independence, and decide not to align yourself with a great (or minor) House, the second feat is still yours at 1st level. The House Allegiance system also works much like a starting occupation and can grant extra skills, bonuses to skills, bonus feats and even reputation bonuses.
I've also used the dying/dead rules from Arcana Unearthed (if you haven't yet, please check out this phenomenally useful tome).General Felire wrote:Is this really a good idea [omitting stats for the sandworm]? I mean what happens if a character wants to take on a sandworm?
This is something I've been going back and forth on from both the Player and Game Master perspective. Basically, it boils down to the "Death Star" principle. IF a character ever managed to somehow take over the Death Star, what could he blow up? Scary answer: Everything. It's basically a roleplaying device. A McGuffin.
Sandworms are monstrously powerful creatures and a full-grown specimen is more than a match for any single player, or even group of players. Can you ride them? Sure. Can you use them? Why not...? But attack them? Are you insane? They are the keepers of the desert and are considered sacred by the Fremen. I'm encouraging GMs to use them as such.
Hope that answers some of your questions... Thanks again for all the encouragement! As of tonight, I have OFFICIALLY started putting the game into PDF format! YAY! :D
WhizO Steve-OThe characters are the children of noted Fedaykin. Their father's didn't agree with Alia's decisions and chose to live in exile rather than disband and accept this new religion.
Their children are now learning their father's skills and preserving the ways of the old Fremen.
One character will be present at the coronation of the God Emperor and returns to the base to fill his friends in on the events. They then decide to take up the fight and instead of waving the flag of Muad'dib's Jihad as their father's had done, they destroy the heratics of Alia's religion.
Any comments or suggestions?
Originally posted by Jedi Steve-O
Hello again all,
Just posting an update on the status of this (hopefully) highly anticipated game.
To review, here are some things I'm including in my new d20 Dune game:
- Vitality / Wound Points
- House Allegiances (instead of starting occupations)
- Dozens of New Feats
- Several New Skills (and new uses for old skills)
- 7 Brand New Starting Classes (including Bene Gesserit, Fremen, and Mentat)
- 6 Advanced Classes (including Suk Doctor, Ginaz Swordmaster and Sardaukar Terror Trooper)
- Shield Combat Rules
- Prana-Bindu and Weirding Powers
- Templates for Spice Addiction and Gholas
- All new equipment, vehicles and monsters
Sounds like you've been very thorough!
Wyvern
That's awsome news!!!
Now I'm REALY dying to see what you've done!!!!
[i]SSJShadow wrote:[/i] When I first read about this [d20 Dune] I immediately started thinking about campaign ideas. I talked it over with my players and we agreed that the best time period for us was the time directly after the events of Children of Dune.
The hook: The characters are the children of noted Fedaykin. Their fathers didn't agree with Alia's decisions and chose to live in exile rather than disband and accept this new "religion."
Their children are now learning their fathers' skills and preserving the old ways of the Fremen.
One character will be present at the coronation of the God Emperor and returns to the sietch to fill his companions in on the events. They [the players] then decide to take up the fight and instead of waving the flag of Muad'dib's Jihad as their fathers had done, they band together to destroy the heretics of Alia's religion.
Congratulations, SSJShadow! You just determined the first era I'm going to outline in my game. Can I give you an assistant writer/idea-man credit? This time period sounds absolutely perfect. I'd been toying with other eras... But this sounds ideal. Now my heads spinning... gotta get cracking on this thing...
WhizO Steve-OHe who controls the links controls the internet!
You just determined the first era I'm going to outline in my game. Can I give you an assistant writer/idea-man credit? This time period sounds absolutely perfect. I'd been toying with other eras... But this sounds ideal. Now my heads spinning... gotta get cracking on this thing...
That is actually a question I wanted to ask. What particular time period are you planning on setting the majority of game information. This is a large number:
Pre-Butlerian Jihad
During the Butlerian Jihad
Early Empire -- growth period
Middle Empire -- the height
Later Empire -- begining of the fall
The Fall (The Dune novels)
The Era of the God Emperor
After the God Emperor
or, you could not base it on any one time period but instead give a little notes on alot of them. This is somewhat harder cause you have to think of what happened over a large amount of time.
For me the best time would be near the time of the books. Not exactly at that point, cause that would be restricted, but close to it. We start to see a society where change is iminent. It also would allow game masters a chance of allowing players to play in the collapse -- or to try and change it.
Thats it for now, though with every passing update the interest grows stronger. It should be so cool once its done.
Just wanted to put a little notice in here that I just got a huge boost to the d20 DUNE project I've been working on: I just got the LUG Dune - Chronicles of the Imperium RPG! This thing is FAN
TASTIC for flavor and descriptions of the different technology and lists of Noble Houses... wow. I'm totally stoked.Originally posted by General Felire:
What particular time period are you planning on setting the majority of game information?
For me the best time would be near the time of the books. Not exactly at that point, cause that would be restricted, but close to it.
Restricted? Restricted by who?
We start to see a society where change is iminent. It also would allow game masters a chance of allowing players to play in the collapse -- or to try and change it.
Setting is definitely the next step for this book. Right now it's weighing in at a hefty 220+ pages and I'm 90% done with the rules and classes, though the Prana-Bindu stuff was actually easier than the Shield Combat rules. When it's all said and done, I want this puppy to compete with the heavy weights around 300 pages.
Now that I've got the LUG game to use for flavor, I've got a pretty good idea for the setting. I'll be roughly carving out three or four eras of play, much like the Star Wars game uses.
WhizO Steve-OI might suggest going into detail about some occurrences that didn't happen in the novels all that often such as Sheild-Lasgun interaction. I know my players are going to forgo conventional explosives, and just jury-rig some sort of contraption. I know I could limit such things easily (make sheilds quite expensive, make lasguns exceedingly rare) but I really don't want to because I really like that idea.
Oh, and then I'd just make the lasgun fall out of the contraption, and "detonate" early...before they could get out of the blast radius...Originally posted by General Felire:
What particular time period are you planning on setting the majority of game information?
For me the best time would be near the time of the books. Not exactly at that point, cause that would be restricted, but close to it.
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Restricted? Restricted by who?
Maybe restricted wasn't the exact word I was looking for. I meant more that it is set in a time of the fall of the Empire. If you want to play a cannon game then you will have to set it in a time of war and collapse, rather than one of, basic, peace. This is what I meant, it would kinda limit (maybe that is the better word) what can be done.
Now that I've got the LUG game to use for flavor, I've got a pretty good idea for the setting. I'll be roughly carving out three or four eras of play, much like the Star Wars game uses.
I think that this is the best option. It allows the game master to pick any of the desingated settings, but it is not so broad as to be almost impossible for you to map.
PS. Where did you buy the LUG Dune - Chronicles of the Imperium RPG. I have been looking for it, but never found it.
Like others I then moved to d20 Modern. Armour does not provide AC as per the d20 modern system - rather a DR a la Star Wars d20.
Here is my take on shield fighting. Excerpts are taken from here and used freely. Note the philosophy is that shield fighting should in the DUNE-DUNE MESSIAH - CHILDREN OF DUNE era should be the norm. I draw heavily on Paul's fight with Jamis to justify the penalties associated with shield fighting.
d20DUNE - begin excerpt
Armour now provides DR - standard Battledress is DR2. This requires the
Armour(Light) proficiency.
Shield Conditioning
The Holtzmann Personal Shield dominates the battlefield, intimate knowledge
is essential to those whose chief concern is warfare. Personal shields have
made almost all forms of projectile weapons completely ineffective for
man-to-man combat. Therefore, a return to the ancient terranh melee fighting styles
has come about.
Activating the shield becomes a free action, presuming a hand is free. For
those without this feat a move action is required to activate the shield.
The standard form of the Holtzmann Shield provides full-body defence,
permitting objects to pass through them, albeit only slowly. An object
attempting to pass through a planar field at a right-angle vector speed of
more than the strike speed is faced with resistance; which grows more
intense as the fourth power of the velocity. When the speed is sufficiently
high, the field becomes essentially solid to the impinging object. Shields
have varying strike speeds -- that speed at which a normal object can pass a
planar Holtzmann field -- that depends upon the electromagnetic admissions
spectrum of the planar field. It is never less than 5.8 cm/s for
one-angstrom fields, and increases only to 9.3 cm/s for all-absorptive
fields. Typical shields have a strike speed of about 7 cm/s admitting most
visible light, x-rays and gamma rays. The wielder of this feat is trained
in both the effective use and indeed defeat of the Holtzmann Personal
Shield. Standard shields have only one setting, certain unique shields have
other settings - for example the demi-shield, and the expensive concealable
shields of certain House Major nobles.
In hand-to-hand combat, this translates to a DR of 20 for a typical military
shield, against swinging/crushing and swinging/cutting damage because the
full speed of the attack can not be used. Most hand-to-hand attacks are
carefully timed impaling attacks with fencing-style weapons like the foil or
the knife.
"The slow blade penetrates the shield."
Those not rigorously trained in shield fighting may take -4 on an attack to
attempt to bypass this DR20 protection. Those properly trained suffer no
penalty to hit those ensconced in a personal shield.
Against ranged attacks of high velocity (bullets, rockets, grenades, etc.)
the shield is extremely effective, providing a DR of 50. Slow velocity
slug-throwers do exist, but are rare and not very effective.
Bludgeoning attacks are very ineffective, but locks, holds and throws are
just as effective against shielded opponents as against unshielded
opponents. Against such attacks shields provide no defence.
The shield can also be used as an active defence like its medieval
counterpart. However, because of its full coverage, it can be used not only
to block incoming attacks but also to parry them. A skilled fighter can use
his shielded arms to parry an incoming weapon attack without fear of being
injured in the attempt.
Proficient Shield users can parry with the whole body. This grants an
effective +2AC bonus, similar to that granted by the Dodge Feat against a
single target (stacks, both must be directed at same target). They can also
use the shield in attack. Even disarmed the shielded warrior is always
considered armed - suffering no penalty against an armed opponent.
However, the Holtzmann planar field is not impermeable, and several
shield-fighting styles have developed to exploit this weakness. Moreover, a
very skilled combatant is familiar with the workings of a shield, and can
compensate in such a manner, as to make the shield's defensive value less
than optimum. The focus, over-specialisation infact, required to defeat the
shield leaves wielders at a disadvantage in certain circumstances.
The conditioning demanded of the expert shield fighter leaves them some-what
at a disadvantage against those not so protected. Those who have dedicated
their lives to fighting with the full body shield suffer -2 to hit those not
similarly equipped.
Defensive shields react explosively upon contact with the coherent light of
laser weapons. When coherent light impinges upon a planar effect field from
either surface, all pseudo-matter bound in the shield is instantly converted
to real matter. This converted matter then converts explosively to pure
energy. Fortunately the actual mass of a planar field is quite small, on the
order of .005 g for a personal shield. Thus, a typical personal defensive
shield if touched by a laser beam, would result in an atomic blast with a
power of .1 kilotons. The centre of this blast is quite erratic, sometimes
originating within the shield, sometimes within the laser weapon, sometimes
both, with no way to determine it beforehand, making the tactic of using
laser weapons to take out shields explosively suicidal.
I will post next my takes on the Previous life templates - which include a House overlay - as per the LUG system - and a class template - coincidently similar to those proposed in this thread. The actual classes as presented in d20 modern are used - with a heavily modified skill list.
For slow blade/shield penetration, I'd make the penalty -6 without the feat (because someone untrained in shield fighting is going to have almost no chance of striking the right balance between speed and control), and make it -2 with the feat, since even with training, the action itself inhibits attacking.
About the shields admitting certain types of radiation, would it be possible to construct a weapon that dealt fairly immediate damage through gamma rays or x-rays? I remember hearing about an x-ray laser, and I suppose radiation could kill someone wearinga shield over a long period of time, but is there a way to make this work on the battlefield?
I also always wondered what happens if someone wearing a shield falls off a very high place? Does the shield absorb the impact at all, or is just like getting ratteled around within a skin-tight shell?
And finally, shields in space. I'd assume these wouldn't be too useful, since Herbert mentioned that there was some interplay of gas molecules, which means they aren't airtight or radiation-proof. But it still seems like they'd be handy to have when performing an EVA.
Steve-OOriginally posted by Interpol99
Just a couple of questions/comments:
About the shields admitting certain types of radiation, would it be possible to construct a weapon that dealt fairly immediate damage through gamma rays or x-rays? I remember hearing about an x-ray laser, and I suppose radiation could kill someone wearinga shield over a long period of time, but is there a way to make this work on the battlefield?
Radiation on the battlefield would be in the form of gamma rays, a high enough frequency or dosage can really mess someone up. but I am no authority on Gamma radiation or its effects on the body, but I think it screws with internal stuff depleting bone marrow and something in the internal organs.
"I also always wondered what happens if someone wearing a shield falls off a very high place? Does the shield absorb the impact at all, or is just like getting ratteled around within a skin-tight shell?"
IMHO the shield would react and the faller would not be perforated by the impact. However I think they would suffer effects akin to those who fall in lifts - the lift is indeed likely undamaged but the sudden deceleration tends to squish those inside.
I take your point about perhaps making it -2/-6. However low level characters with the feat would have a hard time ever hitting each other! So whilst it makes 'sense' that this penalty would be so - it makes for stultifying combats. Especially with DEX bonuses and the fast heroes +3 AC bonus at 1st. So in the interests of timely combat I use lesser penalties. I can justify it being 0 as the shield should be everyone's constant companion and the shield conditioning becomes almost instinctive in those who practice it... even Paul - a mentat trained messiah fights Jamis as if he was wearing a shiled when neither of them are. hence the -2 is for those without shields to make up for this
Skills in CAPITALS are either removed, and replaced by new skills or are modifications of previous d20 modern skills. Few people ever took the swim jump or tumble balance group of skills in our games rolling them into single ATHLETICS and ACROBATICS skills just seems to make sense. A lot of the other skills are renamed for millieu appropriateness. In most example what they do is envident from the skill they replace or include.
Those marked with an * are new. Those marked with ** are restricted in some fashion, GM discretion or template specific.
---
ACROBATICS (conflates Balance and Tumble skills; DEX based)
ARMAMENTS (replaces Demolition skill, in addition to reflecting DUNE Armaments skill for Shield Maintenance, and weaponry - including Atomics)**
ATHLETICS (replaces Climb, Jump and Swim skills; STR skill)
BALANCE (rolled into Acrobatics skill)
Bluff
CLIMB (now part of the generic Athletics skill)
CIPHERS & CODED TRANSMISSIONS formerly Decipher Script
COMPUTER USE (now Proscribed Technologies) **
Concentration (required by MENTATS for computation in dangerous situations)
Craft
Chemical
Electronic (now Proscribed Technologies)**
Mechanical (now Servok Mechanisms)
Pharmaceutical (now also used for Chaumas/Chamurky)**
Structural
Audio-visual Arts
Writing
DECIPHER SCRIPT (now CIPHERS & CODED TRASMISSIONS skill)
DEMOLITIONS (now Armament skill - required for matters military)
Diplomacy (also reflect the Command skill from DUNE)
DISABLE DEVICE(now generic Security skill)
Disguise
DRIVE (rolled into Pilot skill)
Escape Artist
Forgery
Gamble
Gather Information (skill used to employ Spynetwork feat, as well as original use)
Handle Animal (falconry, handling of deadly animals)
Hide
Intimidate
Investigate
JUMP (now part of the generic Athletics skill)
Knowledge
Art
Assassination ** (requires feat Assassin's Code)
CHOAM (business)
Psychology (behavioural sciences)
Imperium (Landsraad, Sysselraad i.e. politics)
Science (conflating; life sciences, physics, chemistry, Holtzmann field technologies)
Spacing Guild ** (restricted)
Proscribed Technologies
House and Homeworld (House specific)
Out-freyn Cultures (Ix, Bene Tleilax) **
History
Underclass (streetwise)
Tactics
Theology and Philosophy Zensunni & Zensufi mysticism, Bene Gesserit (Missionara Protectiva)
Listen
Leadership (field operations as per the DUNE skill)*
Mentat Computation (interpolation; INT based)**
Mentat Projection (extrapolation; secondary computation based on Computation; INT based)**
Move Silently
Navigate
Perform
Act
Dance
Percussion
Sing (Voice**)
Stringed Instruments (baliset)
Wind Instruments
Pilot (includes Drive skill)
Profession
Proscribed Technologies (new skill which replaces computer use)**
Read/Write Language
Repair
Research
Ride
Search
SECURITY* (formerly disable device)
Sense Motive (skill employed for Bene Gesserit Minutiae Observation**)
Sleight of Hand
Speak Language
Spot
Survival
SWIM (now part of the generic Athletics skill)
Treat Injury
TUMBLE (now part of the Acrobatics skill)
Anywho - it's not completed but it was enough to do all the PCs I currently have in my campaign.
Weapon Feats;
restrictions - note Martial Arts (Weirding Way) is not available to character without access to Bene Gesserit teachers. The brawl feat tree is considered the height of normal level combat. This allows the Martial Arts feats to represent the style of the Bene Gesserit.
Melee Weapons (all proficient - except Suks)
Brass Knuckles
Flip-dart (concealed weapons - requires sleight of hand to employ)
Kindjal (shortsword)
Knife
Slip-tip (blade sinister)
Sword
Rapier
Exotic Melee Weapons
Katana
Shigawire Garrote (Assassin)
Shield-fighting (Swordmaster and Noble)
Ranged Weapons (all proficient)
Needle Gun
Maula Pistol
Exotic Ranged Weapons
Hunter-Seeker (Assassin)
Slow Pellet Stunner
Lasgun (Swordmaster)
Charcaters get 25 points to spend on their stats – 8 minimum. Then apply the House Moritani Template. And the conditioning overlay of your choice.
House Moritani -
HOUSE TEMPLATE
Training Modifiers DEX+1 INT+1
CLASS SKILLS Athletics [swim, climb, jump], Language(Bhotani Jib), Knowledge(Grumman), Sleight of Hand, Spot, Listen, Diplomacy, Move Silently, Hide
BONUS FEAT (choose one) Poison Resistance, Alertness, Track
CONDITIONING OVERLAYS
Bene Gesserit
CLASS SKILLS Acrobatics, Bluff, Craft(Pharmaceuticals), Gather Information, Investigate, Knowledge(Theology and Philosophy), Perform, Search, Sense Motice, Spot, Treat Injury
BONUS FEATS Minutiae Observation, Weirding Way (Prana Bindu Suspension),
(also available to females only; Inner Voices, Truthtrance)
Assassin
CLASS SKILLS Craft (Chamaus and Chamurky), Knowledge (Assassination), Language (Chakobsa), Listen, Research, Security, Spot, Treat Injury.
BONUS FEATS Assassin's Code*, Assassins Handbook (Poisons), Exotic Melee - Garotte, Exotic Ranged - Hunter Seeker
Spy Master
CLASS SKILL Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Forgery, Gather Information, Intimidate, Investigate, Knowledge(Psychology), Research, Security, Sense Motive.
BONUS FEATS Spy Network*,
Mentat
CLASS SKILLS Concentration, Mentat Projection*, Mentat Computation*
BONUS FEATS Mentat Awareness, Mnenomic Conditioning (Eidetic Memory)
Noble
CLASS SKILLS Diplomacy, Knowledge(Imperium), Leadership, Perform (Dance)
BONUS FEATS Noble Blood*, Shield Fighting*
Swordmaster
CLASS SKILLS Armaments, Leadership, Intimidate, Knowledge(Tactics), Navigate, Survival, Treat injury,
FEATS Shield Fighting*, Code of Honour*
Suk Doctor
...
The link I posted previously was 'empty' - but this GURPS conversion has been inspirational in my attempt at D20 Dune.
In other news I would love a copy of the pdf for your rigourously playtested Dune conversion!
Anything you absolutely have to have? Something that wouldn't be a Dune game without it? Now's the time to speak up...
WhizO Steve-OOriginally posted by Jedi Steve-O
There are still some combat concerns (i.e. shields...)
Your shield system is for c r a p. I tried it last night with you and I can't believe how stupid we were to go that route.
For those playing the home edition of the game, we tried an Attack of Opportunity-based system, where the provoked AoO is used to get through the shield. Unfortunately this led to one player getting an attack over and over.
What about using flat-footed as the basis?
Anonymous
Originally posted by Anonym
Your shield system is for c r a p...
You know what?... You're right. It was for c r a p! But... I've got new ideas on how to fix it.
"I didn't fail, I just found a whole bunch of ways that didn't work."
How about this: In order to bypass a Holtzman Shield's DR, the target must be flat-footed.
Improved Feint
Prerequisite: Intelligence 13+, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: The character can make a Bluff check in combat as a move action. The character receives a +2 bonus to Bluff checks to feint in melee combat.
Normal: Feinting in combat requires an attack action.
NEW FEAT! The Slow Blade...
Prerequisite: Improved Feint
Benefit: When you successfully feint against a target, you may bypass a Holtzman shield's DR, inflicting weapon damage only (no Strength modifier).
NEW FEAT! ...Penetrates The Shield
Prerequisite: The Slow Blade...
Benefit: When inflicting weapon damage after bypassing a personal Holtzman shield, you may add your Dexterity modifier to weapon damage instead of Strength.
Normal: When inflicting melee weapon damage, add your Strength modifier to weapon's damage.
(Edit: Transferred this to the feat thread, but to substitute...)
For a rogue class, how about "Rebel". Or "Heretic"?
Anon
Originally posted by Anonym
Bah, you told me to put that. Silly Steve-O...
That's true... But it's still funny.
For a rogue class, how about "Rebel" or "Heretic"? [/b]
I like "Rebel," but it sounds too much like a Star Wars reference. "Heretic" has the right feel, but does it imply a religious rebellion?
WhizO Steve-OOriginally posted by Jedi Steve-O
I like "Rebel," but it sounds too much like a Star Wars reference. "Heretic" has the right feel, but does it imply a religious rebellion?
I definetly see your point. Rebel does indeed feel too Star Wars (thanks a lot Lucas!), and technically a Heretic is only someone controversal--although it's usually a Roman Catholic thing, you're right.
Therefore, I guess Heretic would fit best. It has the proper Dune feel too, which was why I suggested it.
Anon
Originally posted by Jedi Steve-O
The Attack of Opportunity-based system we used (similar to grappling) was indeed goofy and led to a hopeless loop of attacks... but I guess that's what Play-testing is for, eh?
Have you considered using a system similar to the one in Fading Suns d20? In case you're not familiar with it, it goes something like this: when you hit, roll a d20 and add the damage; if the total is higher than the shield's activation DC, then the damage is reduced by the shield's DR. You could create a feat or feats that allow you to "pull your punch", thus doing less damage but decreasing the chance that the shield will be activated.
That's true... But it's still funny.I like "Rebel," but it sounds too much like a Star Wars reference. "Heretic" has the right feel, but does it imply a religious rebellion?
FSd20 has a rogue-like class called the knave.
Wyvern
And as long as I'm posting: what''s the equipment chapter looking like? Personally, I find that high-tech gadgets really help define a scifi setting and make the game a lot more fun. What's the status on D20 Dune in that regard?
What's the equipment chapter looking like? Personally, I find that high-tech gadgets really help define a scifi setting and make the game a lot more fun. What's the status on D20 Dune in that regard?
Hey Interpol, thanks for your continued interest. With the release of
d20 Future, the Equipment Chapter has gotten a much needed boost. I've been re-reading the Dune books, going over the old video games, and watching the Dune movies (the David Lynch version and both Sci-Fi mini-series) -- all as "research." :D I'm including stats for the weirding modules (yes, I know they weren't in the books) and creating stats for things like the stillsuits and Fremkits. The lasguns port over fairly easily, and the maula pistols are basically slug-throwers, so that again is fairly simple. There's also Star Wars-esque holo devices, cloning (ghola) technology, Holtzman shields, various combat armors (Sardaukar, etc), as well as medkits, hand-held x-ray viewers and poison-gas teeth. WhizO Steve-OSteve-O what yer saying is that there is a lot of equipment to throw in, huh?
Glad to see your "research" is going along smoothly & I hope it helps to inspire you that much more
Slingbld~
So what yer saying is that there is a lot of equipment to throw in, huh?
Yeah, Slingbld, there's actually a ton of stuff I'm putting in the game... d20 Future's been a big help so expect to see more stuff for d20 Dune real soon.
WhizO Steve-OI have a very simple website which has my own rules to Dune. I have some changes though, like no basic classes. I have Base Classes (20 levels) and instead of occupations, have house templates.
Please go take a look. Leave constructive comments in my guestbook. I appriciate it.
My Dune site
Look under 20 Dune section.
Classes Ok so everyones got a lot of ideas for classes so I thought I might add mine in. Firstly Bene Gesserit. In regards to Other Memories and Bene Gesserit skills one should check out the Akashic from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed as it may offer some nice ideas with its Skill Memories and is nicely balanced. Secondly I noticed that most Bene Gesserit class ideas state Gender: Female. One may think this is ridiculously obvious at first but I say wait! Males were also trained in the ways of Prana Bindu eg. Paul, Leto and Faradn. I also vaguely remember the books mentioning that there were males in the Bene Gesserit schools, just that none of them were allowed to take the Water of Life (obvious reasons). Even in the post-scattering books Teg and Duncan were also trained in the Bene Gesserit ways. Point I'm trying to make here is it is easily possible to make a generic Prana Bindu Adept (Gender: Any) base class and have Reverend Mother (Gender: Female only) as a prestige class.
Oh and a side note, 20 level class progressions make a lot more sense for Dune than d20 moderns 10 level classes. My reasoning - Dune, like standard Dungeons and Dragons and Starwars is very much en epic setting. D20 Modern seems to capture action over epicness in my viewpoint. Anyway some random ideas now.
Races: Human(plus subtype - eg. Atreides, Fremen, Ixian), Tleilaxu (I vaguely remember them not being human - they are pointy teethed midgets).
Base Classes: Commander, Engineer, Mentat, Noble, Nomad (those who live in harsh conditions eg Fremen, Secundians), Pilot, Prana Bindu Adept (Please help with better name
), Rogue, Smuggler, Soldier, Wordsmith (diplomat type base class).Prestige Classes: Archivist (Bene Gesserit archivers), Dervish, Duelist, Fedaykin, Heavy Trooper, Imperial Negotiator, Mentat Assassin, Reverend Mother, Sardaukar, Seer, Swordmaster, Suk Doctor, Wormrider.
Creatures: Guild Navigator (III), Rya Wolf, Sandworm
Creature Templates: Abomination (aka Alia), Ghola, Facedancer (genetic mods), Guild Navigator (I and II)
Many of these can be based off a lot of D&D and d20 modern/future material. Rya Wolves for example could easily use the Dire Wolf stats. Those of you with access to the Dune Encyclopaedia will also find that has awesome information. I might compile a list of viable classes from other sources if anyone is interested.
One last thing is the interaction between time setting and human evolution. By this I mean in Chapter House where it is clearly stated that the ghola od Duncan Idaho had to be genetically modified to be on par with the current reflexes and mental speed of modern humans. It does complicate matters but at the same time it is also logical that at later time settings humans should be faster and smarter. My few cents worth anyway.
BG ability: storing poison/diseases for later use. I don't know if this is official canon, but I think it's still very cool and should definitely get included somewhere (Tielaxiu ability maybe?).
Heavy Trooper ability: maximized damage. This is actually a surprisingly interesting concept if you generalize it to include all "metamagic-like" feats. Widen area could be an autofire ability, silent/still attacks would reduce the noise made by an assassin's attack, ect. Worth looking into I think, especially since it expands the amount of thinking that goes into combat.
Also, I think there have been discussions about what type of rogue-like class would be best for Dune, with various suggestions being saboteur, heretic, smuggler and knave. One way of reconciling these ideas might be to create a generic "sneaky" class and add ranger-like path options.
And just in general: more is better. As long as it isn't total crap, a new class, feat or piece of equipment could be a great addition to D20 Dune. Just think of how successful D&D was and how much of that success rested on massive spell & magic item lists.
Also, I think there have been discussions about what type of rogue-like class would be best for Dune, with various suggestions being saboteur, heretic, smuggler and knave. One way of reconciling these ideas might be to create a generic "sneaky" class and add ranger-like path options.
I think a good flavor name was mentioned in the earlier post: Nomad. I liked heretic before, but I'll concede the connotation is religious, despite it being very much not-necessarily, and saboteur is too specific. Smuggler is too Star Wars to me, and knave is too D&D (see, I can do connotations also). But Nomad is a very on-my-own type thing. Maybe it's too Fremen-y though. Even though Fremen is it's own class.
Eh, whataver, two cents so the thread don't stop.
R
I think a good flavor name was mentioned in the earlier post: Nomad. I liked heretic before, but I'll concede the connotation is religious, despite it being very much not-necessarily, and saboteur is too specific. Smuggler is too Star Wars to me, and Knave is too D&D (see, I can do connotations also). But Nomad is a very on-my-own type thing. Maybe it's too Fremen-y though...
Glad to have you back with us, Anonym!
I've been heavily cranking on D20 Dune since our last beta-testing and with the release of D20 Future I've been getting all sorts of ideas. (Message me, I'm also playing with a homebrew [not Dune related] sci-fi campaign that I'm interested in talking with you about!)
BG ability: Storing poison/diseases for later use. I don't know if this is official canon, but I think it's still very cool and should definitely get included somewhere...
Actually, Interpol, I believe this is "canon" material, IIRC it's how the Baron Harkonnen was inflicted with his disease when the BG used him to conceive Jessica. I'll be looking at all the new material posted by Arx and BurgerKing -- welcome to the thread, BTW guys... Most importantlly, keep the ideas coming! This is a group project and needs new blood!
Arx-I'm really liking your ideas for new/re-named classes and such. You have a good point about the Bene Gesserit, BTW. People tend to think of them as a sorority, (and in general they are) but more than a few males learned their secrets or were trained by them over the years. In my write up for the class, I did indicate that they are generally a female class, but that the GM could waive that prerequisite [as is his Divine Right
] on a case-by-case basis. BurgerKing-Thanks for the tip to your Dune site -- I'll be checking it out today.
WhizO Steve-O It's kinda empty.I love the dune story books. That's why I wanted to make it possible to play in the Dune world.
Okie, here's what i have on my site.
1) Chapter 1: Houses of Dune (Replaces occupations)
2) Chapter 2: Classes
Bene Gesserit (20 lvs)
Bene Thilexiu (20 lvs)
Mentat (20 lvs)
Imperial Agent (20 lvs)
Ixian Crafter (20 lvs)
Guildsman Navigator (5 lvs)
Ginaz Weapon Master (10 lvs)
Heavy Trooper (10 lvs)
Saboteur (5 lvs)
And other suitable classes from PHB, Modern and Future.
3) Chapter 3: Missing! I missed out chapter 3.
4) Chapter 4: Craft Feats
5) Chapter 5: Spice (Just addiction rules)
that's all.
Firstly in regards to the diseases. Whilst Frank Herbert never states that the Bene Gesserit cannot do this he does explicitly say that the Baron's condition is genetic.
Secondly - timeline. Here I specifically point to the Butlerian Jihad and the Machine Crusade. Whilst they were entertaining books I couldn't help but notice the loads of discrepancies. Brian Herbert took a huge time period and mushed it together into a short time period to make it fit into his books. Holtzman did not die in an explosion resutling from a lasgun and shield interaction. He died in space, in a ship he implanted his mind in. Those in the jihad killed him because he was part machine. Holtzman lived for hundreds of years because he became part machine and it was he not Norma Cenva who discovered the Holtzman effects. He discovered it in his 100s of years of life as he orbitted a sun. I dont want to sound cruel but Brian could have at least read "Frank Herbert's" Dune "ENCYCLOPAEDIA" in which he practically explains everything prior to Heretics and CHapter House. All in all I didnt mind the story prequels - House Atreides, Harkonnen and Corrino (though there were mistakes) but Machine Crusade and Butlerian Jihad seem to be a random excuse to squash a whole history of thousands of years into 2 books. Thus I dont consider these two books canon per say.
Sorry for the rant guys but it was on my mind and needed to be said.
On to a more positive note if possible you should really read the Dune Encyclopaedia - borrow it from the lcoal library if possible - it is truly an incredible source of Dune information. I'm lucky enough to have a friend who has it. It is effectively a definitive source of all the Dune info you could need as it explains the technology behind lasguns, no-rooms and Guild Heighliners and the histories of all the houses and even the sisterhood of the bene gesserit.
I could easily get any information anyone needs from it so if you need information on any dune-iverse things don't hesitate to ask. The information on the mentats is actually really thorough and gave me some interesting ideas on a mentat class.
Now to slingbld's question: Are the Brian Herbert prequels worth reading?... Depends on how much you value your time, I guess. If you've got loads of spare time, and are an avid reader, and don't mind being disapointed in quality, then okay -- I'd say read 'em. But I read the first 2 - House Atreides and House Harkonnen, and was extremely let down (both by the style/quality of writing and the "feel" of the books). Not that I'm pointing fingers... Frank Herbert is simply a very difficult act to follow. Plus, it doesn't help that I'm not a big fan of Kevin J. Anderson's work, and the prequels have his style all over them.
So, I guess if you're able to read for details (although, as Arx pointed out, there are a great many discrepancies in just the basic timeframe) and flavor, then I'd say go ahead... But if you're looking for the "feel" and original "flavor" of the Dune books, I'd say spend the time re-reading and savoring the original series. (Much in the way that the two new Episodes of Star Wars just don't measure up, but are still technically in the same universe...) But hey... that's just me. :D
Steve-OArmour Class firstly. Dune is very much a swashbuckling combat world. The invention of the Holtzmann shield made ranged combat practically unfeasable. So to adapt humanity returned to a more melee based combat style focusing on actually training warriors in advanced techniques of not only offense, but also defense. Whereas in prior times it was very much give gun to cadet, teach cadet to not shoot allies with gun, training complete. To reflect this return to finesse and skill i suggest an increase in armour class (or defense if you are used to that name). If you havent already done so its best if you follow Star Wars' idea with the class defense bonus. Though Im probably guessing youve already done that.
Next Idea. Psionics.It seems universally agreed - and i also agree - that the starwars force skill system suits bene gesserit abilities quite well. Which force skills will we use though. More importantly do we need to add any. Obviously any visual or actual telikinetic abilities are out of the question. Yes the "sorceresses" of rossak use giant psychic death beam attacks but that really isnt a "dune" thing. If you look at the Bene Gesserit their powers are purely of a personal mental nature and even then their powers rarely affected others, excluding Voice of course. Now yes Force skill flow more easily in Dune but for the sake of my discussion im gonna use examples from the expanded psionics handbook. Powers such as Defensive Precognition Offensive Prescience, and Offensive Precognition are great for Brana Bindu users. They grant Insight bonuses to AC/Reflex, Attack and damage. Brana Bindu bonuses should definitely be Insight type as they are drawn from "insight" into time and space. Dodge bonuses also work well. The various Clairvoyance discipline powers work well too. In general powers from these disciplines work quite well for the Dune universe - Psychometabolism, Psychoportation, Telepathy and Clairvoyance (with telepathy powers being primarily Voice orientated eg. Charm Person, Cloud Mind). Now I know psionics as is doesnt work well with Dune but it has plenty of information that could make viable skills or extra uses of existing skills. Such extra uses may be available through the aquiring of set feats. Also the Autohypnosis skill is nice.
NEW FEAT! Prescient Dodge
Requirements: 5+ ranks in Prana-Bindu Defense (Force Defense)
Benefit: When using Prana Bindu Defense, instead of granting a bonus to Reflex saves you may grant the Insight bonus to your Armour Class.
NEW FEAT! Prescient Guardian
Requirements: Prescient Dodge, 8+ ranks in Prana-Bindu Defense.
Benefit: When using Prana-Bindu Defense to gain an Insight bonus to Reflex saves or your Armour class you may grant part or all of this bonus to any adjacent ally. The ally loses this bonus as soon as they are no longer adjacent to you.
Opinions Please: I have a hunch these two feats are a little weak. More than a hunch really. Unless (whatever we call the bene gesserit class) gains a decent amount of bonus prana-bindu or latent feats this feat seems a little weak. Perhaps the expanded uses can be granted to above class as an actual expanded skill use class ability. Said abilities would thus reflect advanced training. Whilst anyone can learn basic Prana Bindu abilities only the most dedicated can use its advanced techniques.
Commander: Commanders are military strategists, trained in martial combat but more importantly in the inspiration and control of others, be they allied troops or enemy forces. (Examples: Leto Atreides I, Bashar Miles Teg)
Diplomat: Diplomats are masters of the spoken word. They are the true wielders of the power of speech and are usually trained in simple weapons. Some also develop latent Voice abilities. (Examples: Baron Vladimir Harkonnen - yes hes an evil tyrant but one needs but look at how he speaks to see he is truly an intelligent and powerfully persuasive politician.)
Duelist: Duelists are master combatants with melee weapons - specifically swords. Similar to the Swashbuckler from D&D they also combine increased speed and agility. (Examples: Duncan Idaho, Feyd Rautha Harkonnen)
Mentat: Mentats are human super computers. More powerful than that even. Through rigorous mental training they gain superior computational and observational skills. Despite a mentats scholarly appearance their hyper-obserations make them fiercely dangerous warriors in combat. (Examples: Thurfir Hawat, Miles Teg, Pieter de Vries, Hayt[D.Idaho])
Nomad: Nomads are characters hailing from less civilised worlds or worlds with harsh conditions. They are highly adaptable survivors capable of making do with whatever they can find. (Examples: the Fremen, Paul and Jessica on Dune)
Noble: Nobles are just that, the nobility of the Dune universe. Nobles are consummate fighters trained in sword weapons as well as having incredible resources not only in the way of funds but also contacts and allies. (Examples: Lady Wensica, Corrino Emperor Shaddam IV, Irulan Corrino)
Prana-Bindu Adept: These are masters of the wierding way and total nerve/muscle control. (Examples: Paul and Jessica Atreides)
Smuggler: Smugglers are world traveling traders specialised in social interaction but more than capable of self defense through less than scrupulour means. (Examples: Tuek, Gurney Halleck)
Soldier: Soldiers are the backbone of imperial armies. They are trained in all variety of weapons. Unlike modern day soldiers, soldiers within the dune universe focus on melee combat over ranged - Holtzmann shields have made ranged combat all but useless. (Examples: Gurney Halleck)
Specialist: Specialist is a catchall phrase for any tech or science trained character including medical practicioners, scientists and pilots. They are capable of crafting potent technological weaponry and dismantling machines. (Examples: Yueh, Liet Kynes)
Opinions: Diplomat and Noble could easily become a single class focused on charismatic skills. *Shrugs*.
i may be saying what has already been said, i dont know i kinda got a little tired of reading the same thing over and over.
the shield when active is active till it is turned off, non of this the shield activates bull. I am happy about the stuff that will be cannon in the rpg but some of the thing people say just kinda get to me.
I do like that the lasgun/shield interaction has been noted though. that would be a nice little trick to pull on pc's once the game is finnished. all the pc's will want lasguns cause they kill everything then the ecounter a person with a shield and have no other weapons. lol
Just re-read Dune - as I shall be running my campaign in two weeks and wanted to refresh the old grey cells. My vision was not too askew.
How I wish there was more of the elusive Count Hasimir Fenring, failed Kwisatz Haderach, and his delightful spouse Lady Margot.
To address the point made above above activating shields
In Gurney and Paul's sparring session.
""What a dolt my father sends me for weaponry," Paul intoned. "This doltish Gurney Halleck has forgotten the first lesson for a fighting man armed and shielded." Paul snapped the force button at his waist, felt the crinkled-skin tingling of the defensive field at his forehead and down his back, heard external sounds take on characteristic shield-filtered flatness. "In shield fighting, one moves fast on defense, slow on attack," Paul said. "Attack has the sole purpose of tricking the opponent into a misstep, setting him up for the attack sinister. The shield turns the fast blow, admits the slow kindjal!" Paul snapped up the rapier, feinted fast and whipped it back for a slow thrust timed to enter a shield's mindless defenses.
"
and
" Halleck's voice betrayed his outrage even through the shield's filtering."
And the Baron's narrow escape...
"His shield had been activated, set low but still enough to slow molecular interchange across the field barrier." Which seems to imply that it 'being on' was of note. As opposed to a usual thing.
Shields are not constantly worn, nor constantly on. They are also visible (according to the movies) and cause audible distortions - hardly suitable for banquets!
Shields were purely used for defense whilst fighting or for public appearances when assassinations were a risk (In Dune Messiah Paul often is forced to wear his shield for this very reason when he is outside the palace). Shields are Dune's equivalent of Full Plate Armour. Considering the feudal setting this is really no surprise. Shields heat up and the barrier they produce can also slow air flow. This phenomenon is worse in combat when the shields are struck repeatedly as when a shield is struck it also transform oxygen (O2) into ozone (O3). It wasn't uncommon for people who used shields for prolonged periods to fall unconscious from oxygen deprivation.
As for visibility the movies are a bit non-cannon in that sense. According to the books and the dune encyclopaedia, shields are invisible except for a slight glimmer that occasionally can be noticed when certain light wave forms are reflected. Shields do tend to becom visible at point of impact when struck however.
Shields are made to allow and not allow certain wavelengths or radiation. (They can even be made to not allow light to pass through). However shields work in a peculiar way in that when struck they re radiate energy they are made to absorb. So shields are usually made to allow gamma radiation despite its effect on health. It is generally considered to be safer to allow a bit of background radiation than have a shield start radiating it outwards everytime it is physically struck.
As a side note, interesting in my opinion though, shields arent only used as protection, they are also used by artists and performers as light absorbers to create interesting visual effects. They are also used when you want to conceal someones identity - admit no light at all - walking black box. Nobles use them for cosmetic purposes etc etc. Hundreds of uses for a marvelous device capable of being set to absorb specified wavelengths of light/radiation.
Another point for game rule information - missile/ballistic weapons cannot be fired from within shields. Aka practically any ranged weapon excluding throwing weapons and bows, dart launchers etc. Shields work by deflecting matter on the inside too. Its this deflection which causes it to form a skin of sorts around a body - the shield contracts around the body it surrounds. Reason = (quoted from dune encyclopaedia) "Whenever a mass impinges upon the inner surface of a planar field at approximately 200-400 metres per second, the field undergoes an instantaneous reflection" This goes on to explain that the outer shield becomes the inner so that reflected radiation is instead reflected upon the wearer - swiftly cooking them as long radio waves heat em up like a rat in a microwave.
are all Tleilaxu short? I thought it was just the clone who was used to cause the duncan clone to betray paul. but Tleilaxu equipment would be the best cause they are always messing with genitcs and always improving there cybernetics. and i concure that ballistic and most thrown weapons wouldnt work in conjunction with a shield, it would reflect back and that could be very bad.
...the BG sign language. it is based on normal hand movements so it is all most impossible for someone untrained in it to tell if the person is using it. that should be in here. [sic]
Already included, but thanks for the heads up.
Steve-OFacedancers are human sized however except that they are sterile mules and cannot breed.
In regards to shields again, throwing weapons do work. The inside plane of a shield doesnt act like the outside does. It doesnt get stronger based on exterior velocity. If it did the wearer would not be able to move as to penetrate a shield you must move at less than 10 centimetres per second. We generally move much faster. The reason ballistic weapons dont work (200 - 400 metres per second speeds - thrown weapons dont move anywhere near this fast by the way) is that they in a sense rip the shield apart from the inside and cause it to invert itself. Very painful death as you cook from inwards reflected microwaves and cannot move faster than 10 cm/s because the deflective outer face is not the inner face
Already included, but thanks for the heads up.
hey Steve, I was wondering how close would you say you are now to finishing the project? and can I get in on the playtest or is it to late.
Weapons of the Imperium:Melee Weapons
Weapon Critical Damage Size Notes
Flip-dart * 1 Tiny Requires surprise
Knife 19-20 1d4 Light
Slip-tip 18-20 1d4 Light +2 to hit in offhand
Kindjal 19-20 1d6 Light
Rapier 18-20 1d6 Medium
Sabre 19-20 1d8 Medium
Katana 19-20 2d6 Large Exotic Melee Proficiency
Confirmed critical ignores DR, dealing double dice damage – bonuses not multiplied. In addition unconfirmed critical now also ignores DR.
Flip Dart A small needle like barb used to deliver a potent drug or poison. Flip darts are so named for the protective ‘flip-cover’ used to conceal the needle – difficult to spot with the naked eye and immune to poison snoopers as long as it remains hermetically sealed A sleight of hand or a successful feint will be required to gain the moment to use the flip dart. It always strikes as a threatened critical which guarantees it will deliver the poison by ignoring DR.
Slip-tip A specialised form of fighting knife designed for off hand use. The blade earns its name from the comparative ease by which its slender blade penetrates shields and between ribs. The blade is a long, double edged and tapers gently towards the sharp tip. Its hilt incorporates a deliberate cross guard to catch and deflect.
Primarily considered a companion blade to a kindjal, rapier or sabre. When used in a formal duel, an envenomed slip-tip will be carried in a white gloved hand. (Blanc Sinister). Wheras the sword will be carried in a black glove indicating purity. (Nuit Dexter).
Kindjal A kindjal is a double bladed short sword (or long knife) constructed of any metal such as plasteel. The traditional form is of a gracefully curved, double edged blade terminating in a glittering point. Kindjals are the standard issue blade of House personnel but remain a favourite amongst noblemen and duellists.
Rapier & Sabre, remain noble weapons in the age of the Imperium. The rapier is a long straight edged blade, whereas the sabre is elegantly curved. Both terminate in an acute point – instrumental in shield penetrating thrusting attacks. Constructed of tempered metal such as cold-cast plasteel or titanium. All in all the duelling swords prevail as the most elegant of the archaic weapons, quick in balance and precise of motion. Considered regal weapons for noble personages, swords carry caste restrictions on most Imperial worlds. Legally borne only by Nobles, Swordmasters or House Warmasters - who possess sufficient training and cachet to bear the regal weapon.
Katana, requires Exotic Weapon Proficieny to use in one hand. Otherwise 2 handed at –4 to hit. May not be taken as a staring feat. Secret of manufacture lost to the Imperium.
the game will be online no?
Sorry, Righetti, you gotta be a bit more specific... whose game?
Steve-ORunning my campaign this weekend - you can piece most of the rules together rom previous posts - here is my melee weapons - still missing rules for garrotes if someone wants to help me out. I was thinking of having them do CON damage... but haven't really got much time to puzzle over it.
There are rules for garottes in Song & Silence... don't have it to hand right now, but IIRC correctly they mimic the drowning/suffocation rules.
Wyvern
My game is strictly offline I am afraid. I will post a synopsis of what has befallen my trusty House Minor Charteriis, loyal Vassals of House Moritani some time soon.
...I will post a synopsis of what has befallen my trusty House Minor Charteriis, loyal Vassals of House Moritani some time soon.
That'd be great, arta, I'm sure we're all anxious to hear how the other houses are doing. I'm interested in running the affairs of House Wallach, and their relationship to the Bene Gesserit. Any suggestions?
Steve-OHere is the House Moritani profile.. I will follow up with all the other flavour texts that were available at the start of the game. All have been adapted from their sources to reflect my campaign start date.
History and other notes of the Moritani – Great House of the Landsraad
“I saw thee fair and knew thee bright...
Thou art as corrupt as demons, dark as night...”
1. History
1.1 SUMMARY
House Moritani became as a recognized political entity at the time of the Battle of Corrin (88 BG), when, after they threw their entire support and resources behind Shesuet Corrino, the Landsraad forces were defeated and Shesuet ascended to the Lion Throne as the first Padishah Emperor. Shesuet recognized the Moritani contribution and granted the family the planetary fief of Grumman and the baronial title, which went along with it. Since that time, House Moritani has continued to prosper through its service to the Imperium, and is noted as one of the staunchest advocates of Pro-Imperial actions.
Presently, the House is just completing a time of transition as yet another new figure within the family prepares to receive the mantle of leadership. The turbulence began with the assassination of Galeazzo V and continued with the civil strife caused by the wrestling of his son Cesare with the contender Vittorio, then abdication of the former, and finally the untimely death of the na-Count Agon Moritani.
1.2 TIMELINE
Before Guild (BG)
88 Battle of Corrin brought the Corrinos to primacy over the other houses of the Landsraad and brought about the emergence of the Padishah Imperium. House Moritani and their feared Bhotani bloody assassins support the Corrinos wholeheartedly, at an enormous cost to resources and lives, and was rewarded by the Governorship of Grumman to Lorenzo XXV, making Moritani a House Minor.
0 Spacing Guild and CHOAM combine with the Lion Throne to form the societal basis for the next ten thousand years. House Moritani is instrumental in the formation of the Spacing Guild, by selling off most of its spaceship research and development to the Guild and being allowed to continue to manufacture parts for the Guild Heighliners and developments in personal frigates. House Moritani also helps in the formation of CHOAM, and Bernabo III was the architect behind the idea for CHOAM Directorships, with the Imperium duly represented, and thus endeared the Moritani to the Imperium further as well as gained them one of the first Directorships.
After Guild (AG)
283 Duke Senshisai Ginaz succeeded in forming a minor fief on the southern continents of Grumman. As a result, relations between then Houses Minor Moritani and Ginaz deteriorated.
337 The Great Convention is ratified. One of the delegates was Mateo I, who worked to give the Emperor more power over the Houses. He was greatly derided by his fellow delegates, and was soon afterwards assassinated. His son, Valentinian, was granted to have the hand of the Emperor’s daughter, Victoriae. Moreover, the Moritani’s fief was elevated to the status of a County. This not only helped to introduce the Moritani into the Imperial bloodline; it also paved the way for the Moritani finally being accepted as a House Major.
477 House Minor Moritani elevated to House Major status, largely due to the support of Emperor Saluso III.
4796 The first kanly was recorded between House Ginaz and House Moritani. The Ginaz fief on Grumman, incites the conflict, which lasts to the present day.
9434 House Moritani forms an alliance with House Harkonnen for its kanly against House Ophelion. The alliance persists even after the Harkonnens best the Ophelions.
10,102 Galeazzo V Moritani was born to Count Francesco VII.
10,103 Agon Moritani was born to Count Francesco VII.
10,105 Ermengildo Moritani was born to Count Francesco VII.
10,123 Francesco VII, Patriarch of the Moritani, died of food poisoning. His wife, Lady Valeria, is suspected but nothing is proven. Young Galeazzo ascended to the patriarchy of House Moritani.
10,124 Galeazzo V Moritani married Anastasia Kenrick.
10,129 Melchiorre Moritani was born to the Lord Ermengildo.
10,131 Ophelia Gabryela Moritani born to Nikkolai (youngest brother
of Galeazzo V) and his wife, Guglielmina. She is the eldest of their daughters.
10,134 Cesare Moritani is born to Count Galeazzo V and Lady Anastasia. Due to complications in labour, he became a lone child.
10,135 Lord Agon married Lady Isabel of House Clavell.
10,136 Valentina was born to Lord Ermengildo as a bastard child.
10,137 Rinaldo Moritani was born to Lord Agon.
10,157 Lady Isabel died due to heart failure. The family Suk determined
the failure to be of natural causes; a rarity in House Moritani.
10,159 Rinaldo Moritani married the Lady Germina Venhei.
10,161 Galeazzo V was brutally murdered. The Ginaz were suspected
since all evidence pointed in their direction. Cesare ascended to the patriarchy of House Moritani, and gained the title of Siridar-Count.
10,163 Civil insurrection occurred on Grumman as Vittorio, the bastard son of Galezzo V, challenged the leadership of Cesare, with the help of Valentina, but they failed. In the same year, Lord Melchiorre was found murdered. The Ginaz were once more suspected of the deed.
10,164 The Lady Anastasia was found brutally murdered, early in the year. Although no evidence was found, the Ginaz were blamed for the deed as well. Cesare steps down as the head of the Household at the age of thirty and nominates Agon as the heir to the House.
10,165 The na-Count Agon Moritani is killed when his shuttle unexpectedly depressurizes. Lady Ophelia Gabryela Moritani arrives from Grumman, to see to the business of the house while awaiting the family to choose a successor.
10,165 Campaign begins 10,165
1.3 Recent History
The recent history of House Moritani has been turbulent indeed. Francesco VII was killed by food poisoning. His wife, the Lady Valeria, was suspected but nothing ever came of the investigations. She followed her husband to the grave not a month afterwards with an end as dubious as his. Her luxury vehicle exploded when the fuel ignited and nothing save some charred bones were ever found.
Galeazzo V, whose reign seemed promising after his extremely expedient marriage to Lady Anastasia Kenrick, fell to an assassin as his father did. His son, Cesare, though after a stunning political performance, suffered the insurrection of his illegitimate brother. Even though the legal Count proved to be the victor, the signs of instability were on the wall. A year later, Cesare chose to abdicate in favour of his uncle, Agon.
Tragedy again struck House Moritani when na-Count Agon’s shuttle unexpectedly depressurized during descent to Kaitain. However Lady Ophelia Gabryela Moritani seems set to take the leadership of the demoralized house, to pick up the pieces and set things aright.
One can assume that, despite the turbulent times, the tradition of service to the Imperium will be continued with a new Moritani Matriarch.
2. Characteristics and Culture
2.1 Summary
Some words to describe the Moritani might be enterprising, cunning, calculating, and sometimes devious. However, whatever else can be said about them, they are fiercely loyal to the Padishah Emperor, and have served the Imperium well, ever since the Battle of Corrin.
The Moritani seek profit and increasing wealth and power. They gain it through honourable means if they can, but have been known on a few occasions to use less-than-legal means to gain what they want, but this rarely ever extends to anything major. There could be a bit of bribery or blackmail on the side, but the Moritani only resort to such means when the economic stability and the survival of the House is at stake.
The House strives for a new path to gain prestige, but there is always one thing, which supersedes all its desires loyalty to the Imperium and the Royal personae as well as to its allies. The Moritani, though enterprising, recognize the need for allies for its success, hence is the deeply rooted tradition. The very visible and unconditional servitude to the Imperium has at times caused quite a bit of enmity between them and the pro-Landsraad factions and Houses, but the Moritani stand stolidly by their beliefs.
2.2 Views on Religion
The Moritani have been, ever since the recorded history of the house, staunch and faithful Orange Catholics. They at one time spurned the Bene Gesserit as pagan, heathen, and under the influence and direction of Satan himself. However, in recent times, this intense hatred has lessened, to a degree, especially among the younger, more tolerant members of the House. In desperate, recent times, they have even been known to seek the aide of the mysterious sisterhood.
There are two major deviations in their piety, however. The Moritani have, characteristically, very violent tempers. They show no mercy to those who would incite their anger, and can be completely ruthless when their tempers are aroused.
The other major deviation in the piety of the Moritani is the fact that they recognize human weakness, especially their own. This explains the notorious list of internal murders, infidelities and other carnal sins. In any case, the Moritani reconcile themselves to this by a belief that they are ordained by God to serve the Emperor and that anyone or anything that would hinder their devotion has to be from the devil.
2.3 View on Non-Landsraad Factions
2.3.1 Bene Gesserit
The Moritani were generally wary of the Bene Gesserit, though this feeling has subsided over the years. The House had an unspoken policy to never employ the help of the BG, even if it meant death. However, this began to change during the reign of Count Cesare, when at one time he was engaged to a Bene Gesserit.
2.3.2 Bene Tleilaxu
House Moritani is very wary of the Bene Tleilax. They have had little personal contact with them, and are quite suspicious that they might be pawns whose aims are to overthrow the Imperial House. They do not, however, have an official policy as of yet, since there has been no need for one. At present the Moritani hold the Tleilaxu in suspicion and quandary.
2.3.3 Guild
House Moritani holds the Guild in utmost regard. They do so not only out of necessity, for transportation and commercial reasons, but also because the Guild has helped to make House Moritani what it is today. The Moritani have a great portion of their wealth put in the production of personal frigates as well as some sundry parts for Guild Heighliners, and have exclusive rights to some of them. They would not jeopardize their relationship with the Guild for anyone save the Emperor.
2.3.4 Ix
The Moritani maintain the popular belief that mankind should hold dominion over machines and not the other way around. They view Ix as a necessary evil, and when the opportunity arises will purchase technology for the ever expanding industry of the planet Grumman, but nothing which even suggests at computational power.
2.3.5 Smugglers
House Moritani views smugglers as some of the lowest of the low. In general the Moritani banking blood causes them to hold in revulsion anything that would help anyone (save of course themselves and the Imperium) to bypass commercial protocol and cause a loss in profits for the Guild. The House is continuing its crusade for a crackdown on smuggling.
2.4 Citizenry
It was the intention of Agon to implement several changes spreading across House protocol, the most noticeable of which was to deal with subordinates in a manner quite the opposite of that of Count Cesare. While Count Cesare never dealt personally with anyone lower than a member or representative of a House Minor or other member of the wealthy gentry, Agon had intended to even act as a Judge to the peasantry and bourgeoisie at least once a year. His untimely death prevented even that from coming to fruition.
This change in dogma might have been a harbinger for a slightly more humane doctrine towards the simple folk. However, it also earned Agon the reputation among those more inclined to cling tightly to the “old ways” of being soft, lackadaisical, and even weak. Agon viewed himself and his nobles as both servants to the Emperor and to their people for the greatness of the name of House Moritani. This is not to say that na-Count Agon was mellow and showed less force, on the contrary when the need arose he would discipline his people as the situation warranted for their own good. It was his firm belief that a Noble’s right to rule is derived by the greater good of the people, as is portrayed in the following passage:
“Therefore a wise prince will seek means by which his subjects will always and in every possible condition of things have need of his government, and then they will always be faithful to him.”
Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince
_________
The following material is adapted from the Dune Encyclopaedia.
DOCUMENT ID epsilon theta 17 - House Moritani
A Treatise on the Assassins’ Handbook
The Assassins’ Handbook is a Third-century compilation of poisons commonly used in a War of Assassins. Later expanded to include those deadly devices permitted under the Guild Peace and Great Convention. Originally a third-millennium compilation of information on poisons to aid professional assassins, The Assassins’ Handbook was expanded in the fifth millennium (5345 - 5348) by a committee appointed by Emperor Kelal Djordjevich to discuss the theory and practice of legalized murder under the rules of the Great Convention and the conditions defined by the Guild Peace. The expanded Handbook resulting from the committee's deliberations is held in high regard by mercenaries and master assassins employed by the Emperor and the Great Houses.
The authorship of the original version of the handbook is a matter for controversy, but a consensus seems to assign it to Keshas Khorzh, a third millennium assassin employed by House Moritani. Zhorzh was suspected of several murders of prominent aristocrats, especially members of House Ginaz, House Atreides and House Herzog. Oddly, Zhorzh himself succumbed to chaumurky, probably administered by an Imperial servant, in 3756. On Zhorzh's life, see The Practice of Death by Zautii Kuuraveer.
The expanded version of The Assassins’ Handbook is attributed by most authorities to the committee of nine appointed by the Protector Kelal Djordjevich; it was later ratified by the Landsraad (5359), by which time several of the authors, themselves mentats and master assassins employed by the Great Houses, had become victims of the vicissitudes of their profession. One of the committee, however, deserves special note: the Imperial representative, Count Otho Fenring, himself known to have been an able assassin - indeed, some have argued, one of the supreme artists of his profession. Count Fenring's influence on the final draft of The Assassins’ Handbook appears to have been considerable, especially when the text is compared to his monograph on The Fine Art of Professional Homicide, the passages concerning methods of circumventing the rules of kanly without detection. In the early millennia after the Butlerian Jihad, assassination flourished, but assassination in general was often crude and impulsive, lacking in the finer artistry and subtlety which the master assassins of the later Imperium attained. The accomplishments of these highly skilled professionals must be in large part attributed not only to years of careful refinement of their art, but to the tutelage of such repositories of cunning as The Assassins’ Handbook.
The handbook is divided into four major parts, the first dealing with poisons - a legacy from the first version - the second with other weapons and their uses, and the third section with a discussion of strategies and odds, as well as methods of circumventing the Great Convention, and the rules of kanly. The fourth section of the Handbook describes certain professional standards and rules of prudence.
In the section devoted to poisons, the various possibilities of chaumurky, chaumas and basilia receive the greatest attention. Chaumurky is the general term for any poison administered in drink and chaumas for that concealed in food; both logical agents for murder for a political world heavily dependent on festivals and ceremony. Basilia is a poison which acts swiftly when injected into the bloodstream and which is therefore often placed on the tip of a knife or sword. Since basilia is also nearly invisible to the naked eye, it is a favourite with many professional assassins throughout the Imperium, though its use depended usually on some context where the rules of hand-to-hand combat would apply.
A poison of particular interest because of its painful side-effects is given a brief but special eminence in the Handbook. Most of the poisons in the book are valued because of their swift action, and their ability to be disguised. But one seldom-used poison, zenobia, or the "throat of hell," is highly respected because of the excruciating pain it imposes on the victim when ingested in food or drink. Zenobia is recommended for those special occasions when the prospective victim is completely at the assassin's mercy, and the killer wants to impose a remarkably horrifying demise on his - and often her - enemy. Generally, the professional assassin is advised to eschew personal feeling and to approach his work with a suitable objectivity and craftsmanship beyond mere vulgar expressions of personality; but the Handbook acknowledges that there are some occasions when even the professional using the logical approach stressed by mentat training might well find it pleasurable to allow himself some of the enjoyment of personal revenge.
The second section of the Handbook devotes itself to the discussion of conventional weapons, primarily swords and lasguns, and their functional advantages and disadvantages for the assassin. As with the poisons, subtlety is recommended, for as the Handbook comments, "Any mindless mercenary can commit indiscriminate homicide which will probably rebound upon himself." (In passing, it might be noted that the manual is written in a style that was often trenchant and sometimes characterized by a rich sense of irony.) Assassins are instructed to acquire swordmaster training as a matter of course, and, if at all possible, to develop considerable competence in marksmanship, although the Handbook implies that the master assassin should, whenever possible, leave slaughter with lasguns to ordinary journeymen.
Section three of the Handbook provided a detailed analysis of the odds for success in given situations where the assassin might be expected to perform his work. The best strategies, for instance, for murdering guests at a formal dinner are evaluated, as well as the methods of avoiding swift reprisal. Much space is given to the problems of infiltrating a ducal palace or launching attacks at public events and ceremonies, especially sporting events.
The fourth part of the Handbook's commentary presented the rules of the Great Convention and the code of kanly and provided numerous suggestions of how these might be circumvented or turned to the advantage of the assassin. A favourite method involved bribing the judges or Imperial representatives at various transactions between the Great Houses. The use of poisoned swords at single combat was brought up again here, although much had already been said of this tactic in earlier sections. Various means of infiltrating the defences of ducal castles, despite the use of shields and other protections, are also considered at length here.
This section also presents the conventions and ritual formulas involved in a War of Assassins, from the formal declaration of intent with the Imperial Registrar and the Landsraad Secretariat to the final moment when victory is declared for one side or the other. The Handbook, however, seems to imply that even such formal wars were best carried out on a small scale and waged with subtlety by experts, rather than becoming engagements involving large groups of soldiers. A frequent metaphor in the Handbook is that of the Cheops master, and the authors seemed to regard the art of assassination as a profession rather like that of the grand master of Cheops.
A final note at the end of the Handbook concerns the assassin's need for self-protection. He is enjoined to learn much of his employer's private crimes, and to store the information in places beyond the employer's reach, with provisions that would allow it to become public in the event of his own death. The assassin is also warned to make himself as valuable as possible to his master, yet never to believe himself irreplaceable. Most important, the Handbook advises the assassin to respect his profession and to avoid the temptations of political ambition or personal involvement in his work. Although many famous assassins find the first easy enough, evidence suggest that most are unable to avoid the second pitfall.
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Supplementary text to the treatise on the Handbook of Assassins
War of Assassins – A term used to describe a large-scale use of professional assassins in a feud between two great houses of the Landsraad. Atomic weapons are outlawed by the Great Convention and shields nullify projectile weapons and non-nuclear explosives. Hence Great Houses are obliged to resort to treachery and professional assassination in order to carry on their perennial vendettas.
All Great Houses customarily utilise a master assassin - often one with Mentat training in logic and the traditional Mentat distrust of emotion - to oversee the defences of the family household, supervise the house's corps of assassins, and in some cases to command units of troops or mercenaries. Their function is therefore both offensive and defensive. Consequently a "war of assassins" between two great houses often take on the appearance of a Cheops game between two grand masters. However, some great Barons or Dukes, although relying on the advice of their chief assassin, may be said to have managed - or mismanaged - their own campaigns.
The first recorded instance of a war of assassins is the conflict between House Pardee and House Harkonnen in 3367-3375, a conflict which virtually obliterated House Pardee. This war involved an extensive use of poison, but it was climaxed by the famous Lasgun Massacre, when Harkonnen mercenaries ambushed Duke Ira Pardee and his family at their hunting lodge on the planet of New Salem. Various stories attribute this victory to the defection of the steward of their rural estate, a jealous functionary who was easily bribed. Undermining the loyalty of the retainers of another house was a specialty at which House Harkonnen seems to have excelled, according to the reputation of the house among others in the Old Imperium.
An outright war of assassins always requires, under the Great Convention, a formal declaration of intent to be filed with the Imperial Court, the offices of the Guild, and the Secretary of the Landsraad. Imperial judges are appointed to monitor the conflict and particularly to observe any instances where innocent bystanders might be harmed. Such actions do not always ensure the safety of non-combatants, nor a fair treatment of the two houses involved, for the Emperor is seldom completely disinterested in the conflict. This observation makes the feuding houses wary of harming or even involving outsiders.
Numerous, famous wars of assassins have occurred in Imperial history, often altering the balance of power among the Great Houses of the Landsraad. For instance, House Galloway was powerful in the third millennium, but was nearly destroyed in its war of assassins with House Albonite. Some other well-known wars of assassins were the Steinhauser-Boudreau feud (8193-8195) and the Choi-Dwyer-Ferguson war (8787-8843), a three-cornered bloodbath from which each house emerged weakened. This latter conflict was unusually bitter, and ended only when the emperor himself interceded with the families in conflict
The longest standing formal kanly exists between the Ginaz and the Moritani. In the year 4796 A.G., for reasons still debated by historians, kanly was opened with House Moritani. It seems likely that the diametrically opposed political philosophies of the two houses contributed to this conflict, although it is also true that the Ginaz had a small fief established on Grumman, the Moritani homeworld. This fief had been established long before the Moritani were granted control over Grumman, and had been a source of conflict for years before finally boiling over into open warfare.
Some interesting effects of wars of assassins entered the folklore of the Imperium. It was customary, for instance, to speak of someone who was notorious for his rationality as being "logical as an assassin." And the hour before dawn when human bio-cycles are customarily at a low ebb was often called the "hour of assassins" because of the tendency of professional assassins to use it for their attacks.
E.C.
Further references: ASSASSINS HANDBOOK; Zhautii Kuraveer,
Now as a synopsis they assume a lot of personal knowledge on your part. If you have any questions fell free to post. If you think I am spamming the forums feel free to laugh at me. The synopsis opens before na-Count Agon's death - which was detailed above in the House Moritani Spymaster Report, but the opportunity to run an extra introdutory session necessitated a little temporal jiggery pokery
BOOK I – WAR OF ASSASSINS
PRELUDE
A black pixellated screen, three silver rings are bisected by a single silver line – the token of the Guild.
An alien, mechanical voice...
A SECRET REPORT WITHIN THE GUILD
A PLOT - WHICH MAY ENDANGER GUILD INTERESTS - HAS COME TO OUR ATTENTION
SEND A SECOND STAGE GUILD NAVIGATOR TO PLANET GRUMMAN - HOME OF HOUSE MORITANI – TO DEMAND ANSWERS FROM THE NA-COUNT
Scene shifts to a from space shot of the wintry sphere of Grumman, a white and grey cloud shrouded planet.
PLANET GRUMMAN
HOME OF HOUSE MORITANI
Establishing shot above an impressive medieval fortress, wreathed in snow, under a thunderous leaden sky.
FORSCHSTAG
Seat of House Minor Charteriis
Vassal of House Moritani
The camera alights on a high parapet behind a tall figure wrapped in a blue grey military greatcoat trimmed with native taiga tiger fur. The figure turns purposefully – he has a regal hauteur, reminiscent of the Romanov Tsars of ancient Terra; Lord Nikolai di Charteriis du Moritani. His eyes are those of the hawk.
He turns to face a house trooper whose misty breath is visible as he addresses his Lord. Dressed in the blue grey and gold trimmed uniform of the Charteriis. A curved sabre is sheathed on his left hip.
“Milord – the entourage is aboard the shuttle and prepared to leave for Fal Dansken”
The Lord Nikolai Charteriis du Moritani and his retinue finish their preparations to take flight for Fal Dansken. There they will join with the other celebrants for the ascension of the na-Count Agon du Moritani. The na-Count will travel within the week to Kaitain IV, to receive the Padishah Emperor’s blessing; Agon will then become the Siridar-Count of Grumman ending the uncertainty fermented by years under the usurper Cesare. Fal Dansken is not the seat of the Moritani but is the vast caldera (volcanic cone) spaceport of House Minor Prinzporio – Charteriis’ bitter rivals for favour in the local Sysselraad. The other vipers, the Minor Houses Laurentii and the Kamikeirz will also be in Fal Dansken vying for the favour of the ascendant na-Count.
Planet wide celebration follows the na-Count receiving the traditional blessing in Neo-Byzantia - by the Holy Patriarch Piotr Rotislav. Neo-Byzantia is of course part of the Gizanette – a fees that the Minor House Demios-Toleda rules over for their liege, the Ginaz of Marcinko. As the Seat of the Holy Patriarch it is of course forbidden to war over its sanctified lands…but arguments over this minor fief spilled over - several thousand years ago - into formal Kanly, the War of Assassins between house Ginaz and the Moritani. Indeed, recent history shows just how dangerous it is to be a Moritani noble…
En route Lord Nikolai discusses with his retinue the surprise gift he has secured for na-Count Agon – the entourage consisting of most of the blooded line of Charteriis, Raffaen and Chevalier Alexander, the House Mentat Viktor, and the Swordmaster Nexiis finally see Fal Dansken.
FAL DANSKEN
Seat of House Minor Prinzporio
Vassal of Great House Moritani
Fal Dansken, the most defensible spaceport on Grumman. A great basalt plane within the forbidding ring of a vast ancient volcanic caldera. The hard rock allows even the heaviest of lighters to make landings – making Fal Dansken the pre-eminent spaceport for bulk trade on Grumman. The merchant city itself is etched into the black walls and streams down the caldera flanks like architectural lava, reminiscent of Zensunni monasteries from the ancient traditions.
In great clouds of steam – your House steam frigate alights amongst vessels of many descriptions - ugly black lighters, and gleaming steam ships - marking out a presence of the Moritani, Prinzporio, Kamikierz, Laurentii and off world allies such as the Harkonnen. The air reverberates with the ‘thwok-thwok’ of Moritani ornithopter sentinels and on the ground there is a heavy presence of pristine, white jacketed, Moritani House Troopers.
In quick order, house troopers resplendent in blue-grey, make a parade of honour as your Lord emerges with his entourage onto the black landing field. The Mentat Viktor – determines that the Guild have an unusually significant presence – announced by a solitary, hunchbacked, black lighter. The ships markings can only be indicative of an enigmatic Guild Navigator. Such a presence is unusual indeed.
You are escorted to opulent chambers guarded by a series of pru-doors – normally afforded to off world merchants. Here the usual surveillance devices are neutralised in addition a further more expertly hidden shiga-wire recorder. The day proceeds with a taiga tiger hunt for the déclassé merchants. The true, noble blood sport will come at the feast and the ensuing Corrida Escuda on the morrow.
Preceding the feast the na-Count summons all the heads of the minor Houses to – and informs them that when he receives Imperial assent his first deed as Count will be to end Kanly with the Ginaz, in the most bloody and swift way possible.
The feast is a tiresome, mundanely sumptuous affair – fraught with underlying tensions all bound up in the aquiline na-Count Agon. Foremost amongst his visitors is the meek Count Hasimir Fenring and his beautiful fiancée Lady Margot. The presence of this distaff cousin of the Padishah Emperor is a sign of significant favour for the nascent na-Count. Anyone with an ounce of political nous knows Fenring, by his reputation, which is anything but meek. There is also an emissary from the Moritani’s greatest allies amongst the other great Houses, the Harkonnens. The na-Duke Sekandr Charnizai, though he does not join the feast – nor does Raffaen – who remains concealed amongst his entourage.
The traditional giving of gifts bores the na-Count – his spies having already conveyed to him the favours of his loyal vassals. Not even a troupe of Tleilaxu face dancers performing the history of the House – or a renowned virtuoso of the baliset seems to rouse his interest.
Lady Margot – conspires to dance with many of the nobles present including the scion of Charteriis, the Chevalier Alexander. Here she relays to him – using the subtle language of chakobsa – that she seeks a liaison afterward. Her foppishly polite fiancé, the Count, then draws her away.
The feast ends with the presentation of the Lord Nikolai’s surprise gift of a Salusan bull, for the ensuing days Corrida Escuda. From the Imperial stud of Salusa Secondas itself, and by pedigree of the ilk that slew the noble Duke Minotauros Atreides, 2 years ago on Caladan. The na-Count is stirred by the gift – or possibly by its implication; Lord Nikolai is announcing that something as impressive as a Salusan Bull can be secret even from Moritani spies.
The Charteriis Swordmaster Nexiis discusses the gift with Lord Shane Padron, the fallen Earl of Turcal, who is now mere Swordmaster to the na-Count Agon. It is he who will fight in the Corrida tomorrow. The entourage arrange for a meeting with the Moritani Swordmaster after the ensuing return of the Count from Kaitain. Later Padron inspects the massive black bull in the hold of the Charteriis ship. The fallen Earl insists that it not be tampered with before he encounters it in the arena the next day… the Mentat estimates his chances at even. The fallen Earl of Turcal seems to have a death wish – but his code forbids him to actually take his own life.
Meanwhile Chevalier Alexander indulges in his liaison with the Lady Margot. She informs the noble scion – that in a “matter of blood” - he should look for aid where there should be none.
Later that night the na-Count Agon holds a personal meeting with all of the blood of Charteriis. With the aid of verite – a truth drug - he tests the loyalty of all within the House ensuring that the coming war against the Ginaz will be one fought on only one front … the meeting lasts well into the night and the next morn. There is scant time, before the Corrida at noon, to prepare. All the scions of Charteriis leave feeling that their na-Count has put great trust in them.
The Corrida Escuda, the noble artistry of bull fighting differs in many respects from its ancient Terran origins. It is a blood sport reserved now purely for the Regis Familia – nobles of the Imperium. The deadly Salusan Bull, a monstrous black beast with dull metallic horns is not wounded before the bout… in fact it is afforded the protection of a demi-shield. The Matador fights unprotected, carrying only cape and a sword in a black gloved hand. A poisoned kindjal in a white gloved hand is used only as a coup de grace to make still a fallen opponent.
The ensuing battle is supreme artistry, grace is enforced by precise slow blade required to penetrate the charging bulls shield. The day finally belongs to Lord Shane Padron – but not without supreme effort. All acknowledge that the Hand of God aided the Earl of Turcal in his fierce war with the Bull. Exhausted, but victorious, Lord Padron receives the adulation of the crowd for his na-Count.
The final day culminates a Cheops tourney (pyramid chess; nine-level chess with the double object of putting your queen at the apex and the opponent's king in check). With some ease, a new slave of Agon’s wins the day – Lucius Deen - and at the award ceremony the na-Count shows great favour to the Charteriis by gifting them the prize winning slave and the purse. With that the celebrations draw to a close and preparations are made to depart.
All can remember where they watched as the golden shuttle of the na-Count ascend, closely followed by the squat black Guild freighter. The sudden lurch as it crossed the path of the Guild ship – it has been endlessly replayed in Solido projectors in the chaotic year that followed. The rain of fire almost compromised the Prinzporio house shield. In the chaos & confusion there were some unexplained deaths and attempted assassinations – but not enough to suggest that someone was waiting to take advantage of the chaos… and so it remains an unexplained accident.
In the standard year that followed the newly elected na-Countess, recently returned from Gamont – the 3rd planet of this system prepares to hopefully bring calm. She begins to make plans to receive the blessing of the Patriarch.
CHAPTER 1
10,165 - Lady Ophelia Gabryela Moritani arrives from Gamont, to see to the business of the house while awaiting the family to choose a successor given the tragic accident suffered by the previous na-Count Agon.
Almost a year has passed since the spectacular incident robbed the Moritani of their nascent na-Count Agon. Rumours abound of Spacing Guild agents scouring Grumman for evidence of foul play.
In Forschstag Keep, Seat of House Charteriis, Lord Nikolai has made it known that the time had come for an heir to be named. After consulting with the Moritani for their assent, Alexander is told that he will become na-Lord. In accordance with the Moritani traditions the prospective na-Lord must undergo the Bhotani Trial of Blood. The origins of such are lost, though most Moritani historians would agree that the crux of the trial was originally a crude means of ensuring paternity. The Bhotani, it is presumed, had genetic immunity to a range of poisons. Administering a cocktail of select poisons to the clan heirs would ensure that the genetic marker was present, and indeed kill those in which it was only poorly represented. The resonance between this archaic proof of blood and the more modern naming of an heir is obvious. Though now merely a symbolic gesture, the associated pageantry maintains the aristocratic mystique of a prized bloodline – so important in the Charteriis propaganda.
The celebration and ensuing ritual afford many opportunities for intrigue. Indeed, Lord Nikolai himself was subject to an attempt on his life during his trial in 10,135 when the placebo was replaced with something more authentic. Nikolai survived, with the aid of House Mentat, and recovered to assume leadership of the house. Many of the more superstitious of the Charteriis considered this an omen that Nikolai was touched by the Hand of God. Other more cynical observers suggest that it was a ploy on Nikolai’s part to engender this reaction. However, the ensuing disappearance and accidental death of Nikolai’s two demi-brothers in turn points to swift retribution for an attempted assassination.
Raffaen was inspired to gain knowledge of the Bhotani Jib root poison and to have ready an antidote just in case. [A second order computation by Chardon Klees - late personal Mentat of the Baron Harkonnen, previously revealed to Raffaen, suggests that a staged assassination would give rise to both the superstitious awe and the presumption of guilt in the demi-brothers, or at least enough to remove them with fewer repercussions.]
As the day of the ceremony drew nigh – Charteriis forces where bolstered by the appointment of a second Swordmaster, Annaric. Knowledgeable sources within the house suggest that this was the culmination of events set in motion by Agon’s determination to wage a full military conflict against the Ginaz. As Agon’s final standing orders to prepare for such a war had not been countermanded – many of the Minor Houses on Grumman had utilised this as legitimatization of a rapid build up their forces. In spite of the obvious fact that such a war is now very unlikely. Given the recent instability in House Moritani the Minor Houses grasped eagerly at the chance to increase their security.
The celebration for the new heir was city wide, and guest from all the Minor Houses where entertained by a planetary Cheops contest – which culminated in a victory over Ranemiro Demios-Toleda by the slave, Lucius Deen, gifted to the Charteriis by Agon a year before. The festival and feast passed without reported incident.
With the Keep once again clear of foreign dignitaries attention turned to Alexander’s confirmation as heir. Alexander was cloistered, with his father and two Monks of the Orthodox Planetary Church, within the most ancient of the Charteriis chapels, the Monastery of Dur. As opposed to the public ceremony of his father, Alexander was to take his trial in camera. He stands within the ancient heart of the keep, guarded by avenues of sarcophagi, where lie entombed ancient Charteriis Lords, within a claustrophobic chapel, alone.
On an altar of cold stone, upon cloth of red silk rested a choice, Lord Nikolai proffered one chalice ‘Take a step into a greater world.’ He offered a second ‘Or live as you always have.’
Alexander’s choice was the former and the ensuing reaction indicates that Alexander had been administered the Bhotani Jib root. In the following days Nikolai was unavailable, and the entourage choose to investigate the fate of Alexander. Gaining access to the incense filled chapel via the myriad tunnels, which penetrate the great rock which Forschstag keep rests on, all become witness to the contorted delirious figure of Alexander. The heir presumptive was almost still; only an incessant, resonant chatter escaped his lips.
It was determined that the second chalice contained a deadly and renowned poison; zenobia, or the "throat of hell,” Highly respected because of the excruciating pain it imposes on the victim when ingested in food or drink. Zenobia is recommended for those special occasions when the prospective victim is completely at the assassin's mercy, and the killer wants to impose a remarkably horrifying demise on his - and often her - enemy. There is no antidote for zenobia.
Raffaen's previously prepared antidote was administered, and restored Alexander from his death trance. Lord Nikolai entered through the great bronze door of the chapel to congratulate na-Lord Alexander, his sudden entry suggesting he had been watching the entire affair. Speculation after the event suggest that the ritual was more a test for the disgraced Raffaen than the na-Lord, demonstrating Raffaen’s loyalty to the Charteriis after his recent return from the Harkonnens. The Harkonnens of course famed, for their readiness to advance through internecine slaughter.
[The full experience of Alexander in his delirious state remains his own counsel, though it was widely noted that he returned to the Chapel on several successive occasions.]
Some weeks later the House entourage departed for Neo-Byzantia for the anointing of Lady Ophelia Gabryela Moritani. The anointing, by Patriarch Piotr Rotislav represents the Holy Blessing of the Orthodox Planetary Church, and this is a prominent step in having herself declared na-Countess. Neo-Byzantia is a city within the Ginazette, the fees of the Demios-Toleda, House Minor of the Ginaz. It is the oldest city on Grumman. At its centre is the purported location of the martyrdom of the one of the authors of the Orange Catholic Bible. Cited there is the vast edifice of The Temple of the Spilled Blood of the 13 Martyrs. The centre of the Holy City, a city within a city, is a neutral site in the Ginaz-Moritani kanly protected by Imperial decree, and is the domain of the family of the hereditary Judge of the Change; Lord Freidhrich of Albrecht.
On the landing field beyond the city – na-Duke Sekandr Charnizai, of a Harkonnen Minor House made it known to Raffaen that Guild agents had raised specific question regarding the Charteriis. Sekandr withdrew but not before intimating that there was more to be known.
The Patriarch addressed the assembled throng of the people of Grumman. The Holy City was swelled with visitors from all the regions of Grumman. His speech reflected the local orthodoxy which reflects core tenets of the Butlerian edicts; ‘Thou shalt not disfigure thy soul’ the proscription against combining man and technology, and ‘Thou shalt not make machine in the image of man’s mind’ the proscription against technology that replicates the mind.
The ceremony continued under vast vaulting golden domes, with the Patriarch addressing the assembly of the Albrecht, Moritani, Charteriis, Demios-Toleda, Charnizai-Harkonnen, Kamikierz, Laurentii, Prinzporio, rich merchants, and church functionaries.
Within the vaulting temple, heady incense in the air, a broad stone altar, swathed in red cloth a pru-shielded reliquary contained the Chalice of Jehane. The Lady ascended the dais to receive the blessing, at her side the former Earl of Turcal – Shane Padron bearing the symbolic red wine. The wine was snooped and then splashed into the Chalice of Jehane; carefully extricated from its reliquary and held aloft in the hands of an altar boy. The Patriarch drank, symbolising that the blood of the Martyrs of the Butlerian Jihad, and the ensuing Ecumenical Commission flowed still - here in the Orthodox Planetary Church. He then prepared to anoint the good Lady. The Planetary Patriarch collapsed, to those who have studied zenobia the hacking cough and ensuing contortions are classic hallmarks of the ‘throat of hell’.. Then began the inexorable twisting into the reverse foetal position that tears open the mouth and leaves the visage that must be worn on the face of the damned when reaching hell. The assembled pilgrims outside the cathedral witnessed all events on Solido projectors, erected such that the faithful could see.
Within the Cathedral the initial reaction was of paralysed horror. Then survival instinct took precedence. The Kamikierz and the Laurentii, and the merchants made to flee. The ever-loyal Charteriis and Prinzporio moved to defend the Moritani household. In the ensuing confusion the Judge of the Change allowed for the Moritani to initially investigate the horrific scene whilst the Prinzporio added their bodies to the weight defending the Moritani heiress from any opportunists.
Out with the Cathedral, the gruesome death of the Patriarch resulted in a massive revolt, an orgy of righteous violence. It seemed the seething mass did not need to be prompted to believe that the Moritani Heiress had been complicit, or even directly to blame for the outrage. Her administration of the licentious pleasure planet of Gamont, the third planet of Niushe of which Grumman is the second, served as a ready basis to speculative extrapolation that she is a Godless ***** and as such capable of such an outrage. Less outraged minds ask how she could profit from this slaying, and point to the fact that this has massively increased tensions on the planet at a time when the Moritani are already beset by the apparent successful intrigues of the Ginaz.
House Charteriis Spymaster Vrashencko took command of the scene of sacrilege and tried to pick up the threads that might lead to the perpetrator of this outrage. It was determined that the wine appeared to be free of taint, and the Holy Chalice itself was the source of the active agent. Thus attention turned upon the altar boy Ioseph. Increasingly fearful for his life under direct questioning, Ioseph who had been the reliquary key keeper since achieving majority, attempted to escape. A precise stunner shot from Raffaen felled him.
A search of the altar boys chambers proffered an inscribed and particularly fine example of an OC Bible – composed of delicate ridulan crystal pages so fragile that electrostatic force was required to turn the pages, with molecule thick inkvine ink. The whale-leather cover contained a dedication in Hebron. A search of Ioseph determined he had a tattoo, a red Templar cross in a kite shield. Albrecht indicated that it was the symbol of a local exclusive charitable organisation, an organisation who styled themselves in the fashion of the Ginaz Templars, the firebrands of the Butlerian Jihad 10,000years ago.
Further interview with Thomas, the Mentat-Cleric Master of the Scrolls confirmed the similarity of the symbol to that employed by the Ginaz Templars. He also translated the dedication – in Hebron. The dedication read ‘To an honoured brother - Armentero’. This name Thomas eidetically recalled as a freeman bourgeois Wine Merchant, who had been present at the ceremony this day. Mentat Trance recall of the ceremony and Solido projection of previous ceremonies confirmed that the merchant and his family had been present and had fled during the incident. After determining that there were secret ways from the cathedral used by recalcitrant altar boys – the entourage sought the villa of Armentero at the foot of the Holy-mile which led to the Cathedral. Daring the burnt out streets and lasguns the Charteriis saw first hand the fringes of the rampaging mob. They found the dead remnants of the Kamikierz who had fled previously and see the distant landing field aflame.
The entourage take custody of the merchant, who initially invites them in – he readily admits and seemed quite proud that he was a member of the self styled Knights of the Temple of the Spilled Blood of the 13 Martyrs. It became apparent during initial conversation that he was a Butlerian zealot and considers the licentious ***** Ophelia quite guilty in the matter of the Patriarch.
Managing to slip back inside Cathedral the entourage are de-briefed by Lord Nikolai. He circuitously intimates that determining the true extent of the machinations at work here is secondary to the advantage that can be gained. If these Ginaz Templars were found to be the true assassins, then Demios-Toleda have been shown to be unable to guarantee the safety of the Imperially sanctioned Holy City, even from those within there own fees. If the Judge of the Change, the Emperor’s representative, was shown evidence of Ginaz complicity he could be persuaded, perhaps, as to the wisdom of sanctioning the deployment of peace keepers from the safety of the imperially neutral Cathedral. If this White Knight were able to restore order here, then the Ginazette could be mere steps away from being presented to the Moritani as a fait accompli. Such a strong action by the Charteriis would certainly increase the growing closeness with the beleaguered Moritani at this time of intense crisis – indeed a more formal relationship between the Charteriis and the Moritani might not be beyond suggestion.
The entourage takes the words of their Lord to indicate that they should come to a quick conclusion in their investigations. The evidence, it now seems, all points to a clumsy Ginaz plot to stain the character of the Heiress and keep the Moritani on the edge of the precipice. The entourages seeks audience with the Judge of the Change and offer to give him the credit for uncovering the plot in exchange for permission to move against the Demios-Toleda under guise of pacifying the baying crowd. They also offer assurances that the pseudo House Minor of Albrecht will continue to enjoy its neutral control of the Holy City. With this the entourage acts to ensure the veracity of their conclusions are never challenged – beginning with Thomas the Mentat-Cleric, Ioseph and Armentero.
CHAPTER 2
In a sacred chamber adjoining the desecrated hall of the Spilled Blood of the 13 Martyrs, the Charteriis scions and entourage gather. Ioseph and Armentero lie dead & the failed Mentat Cleric Thomas is consigned to coma, lost in the fatally solipsistic Hall of Mirrors. They gather to discuss handing over the ‘evidence’ of the Ginaz ‘plot’ to the Judge of the Change, Lord Albrecht.
The distant chanting of the mob disturbs the weaving of their tangled web. Suddenly, the heavy oaken door is flung open to reveal the baying crowd within the Cathedral itself. Sword masters leap to the fore, and they make bloody work of driving back the pyons. Nexiis espies a robed figure amongst the throng – the firebrand driving on the mob – bearing a Templar amulet.
Under cover of the chaotic melee – Raffaen disguised as a pyon slips into the crowd and reaches the white robed figure. The stench of Semuta, a narcotic formed by burning the blood-grained elacca wood of Ecaz, pervades the angry crowd. Combined with the atonal chanting, led by the Templar, its effect is to remove most of the will to self-preservation.
Raffaen draws the Templar away with promises of news of Armentero. Without the zealot the crowd loses much of their suicidal abandon and the remainder of the entourage drive them into flight.
As the battle wanes Vrashencko, Charteriis Spymaster, and Bellios, the Warmaster, observe as the disguised Raffaen draws the Templar down into the crypt Library. As the Templar tends to the failing Thomas, the Charteriis fall upon him narrowly avoiding death at the hands of the Templar’s concealed Ixian Lasgun. With the Templar’s subdual a semblance of order is restored to the Cathedral.
The twisted, opportunist, plan of the Charteriis is close to completion – the ambitious Judge of the Change has been given the coup of revealing the Ginaz ‘complicity’. He then accedes to invite the Moritani and their Minor Houses to ‘restore order’ to Neo-Byzantia. The successful conclusion of this Charteriis inspired ‘intervention’ will be the betrothal betwixt the teetering Moritani na-Countess and the na-Lord Alexander. Even as the Demios-Toleda begin to restore order themselves, the troop-lighters of the Moritani are summoned. A Kamikierz lighter is caught too close to the Cathedral by a web of Lasgun fire from the Holymile – and spirals into ruin far below. Thus the arriving troops are forced to land on the far side of the city – and seep towards the Cathedral.
The city lies in flames; Demios-Toleda House Troopers are forced from their own city by the appearance of the Moritani forces. The smug Charteriis watch from the highest vantage in the Temple, sipping sacred wine, gazing through shattered stained glass saints. Their plan to present the control of Neo-Byzantia as a fait accompli, a betrothal gift, to the na-Countess with the complicity of the Judge of the Change is close to fruition. Sekandr, the Harkonnen na-Duke Charnizai, joins the watching vultures. Delight plays across his alabaster features, as he prepares to shatter the mood of cruel triumph. He informs the entourage that the arriving Moritani troops have brought intriguing news, news of outrageous betrayal. He relates how the Guild agents scouring the planet for the last year have arrived at disturbing conclusions. The agents have revealed to the na-Countess, the apparent complicity of the Charteriis in the ‘accident’ which robbed the Moritani of Agon, and the Guild of one of their Navigators.
Violation of the dictum familia – the slaying of a Great House noble, to wit Agon, out with the rules of Kanly is expressly forbidden. Nikolai et familia and of course his retinue can expect to spend the rest of their lives in pain amplifiers, should they live. In that instant Alexander’s dreams of the union of Charteriis line with the Moritani crumble about him. However there is time for one last desperate gambit. Na-Countess Gabryela Ophelia is waiting for the fruition of the Charteriis plan, for the Ginazette to be in her hands, for Alexander to be at her side as betrothed before she turns on them.
What in the million worlds can be done? Dramatically, House Charteriis attempts to switch allegiances, prompted by Alexander, who seems possessed. He intuits that the Charteriis only hope is for sanctuary amongst the Ginaz – though the idea is completely without precedent in more than ten millennia of Imperial History. Resolving to act, the entourage prepare to throw themselves on the mercy of their ancient enemy – the Ginaz.
Leaving Nikolai within the cathedral, to maintain the illusion of continued action to the Moritani, the entourage make for the Keep of Demios. They pass through the ruined city leaving the embattled Kamikierz to their fate at the hands of the mob – till they gain the Keep of Demios where they give themselves up to the custody of their sworn enemies. Ranemiro Demios-Toleda takes them into the presence of the embattled Lord Sebastino, where after entreaties – and lies – they are left twisting in the wind. The Sword of Damocles hangs above them; only the well trained Charteriis’ silver tongues and the revealed treachery of the Judge of the Change offers them scant hope of escaping the executioner.
After counsel with the Marcinko, homeworld of the Ginaz, Sebastino gives his assent for the Charteriis to take sanctuary – much to the relief and indeed some surprise of the Charteriis retinue. In exchange for saving the Demios-Toleda fees – the Demios-Toleda choose to accept a union with the Charteriis, both Houses forced to the verge of destruction by the affair.
Nikolai, ever adept at manufacturing opportunity out of crises, prepares to gather whatever he can from the wrack and ruin of the Charteriis fees. The Demios-Toleda may end up offering sanctuary to more than just the immediate retinue of the Charteriis familia.
The rumoured complicity of the Charteriis in events in Fal Dansken a year previously will in time become known. However given their allegiance to the Ginaz – one codified with a trail of quickly forged contracts – the Laws of Kanly draw around them protectively. However as will soon be realised, the Guild may still seek to exact its pound of flesh. One does not anger the Guild. For now, the Charteriis are content to escape the na-Countess’ wrath.
With sanctuary gained, the Charteriis House Troopers - in tandem with the Demios-Toleda and seemingly aided by the mobs, inspired by their hatred of the Moritani - quickly restore order to the City. The embattled Kamikierz are adeptly manipulated from the battle by an out of character act of mercy by the Charteriis. The Ginazette slips from the grasp of the Moritani.
The Charteriis shift in allegiance is considered a coup de theatre by the Ginaz, upon their hated rivals the Moritani. Delight at the discomfiture of the normally adept Moritani may in time deflect embarrassing questions in the Landsraad. Such audacious action, though, must intrigue the powerful, even the Emperor. The ripples of this betrayal must make all look anew at the Ginaz. How such a plan could be hidden… what could it foreshadow?
To outsiders the incident at Neo-Byzantia now looks like a clumsy plot by the Moritani, in collusion with the Judge of the Change, to annexe the Ginazette. The Charteriis hope to paint themselves as an honourable House escaping the internecine and constant warfare of Grumman. For the Charteriis refuge on Marcinko offers new challenges, a planet where they may be seen as hated outcasts of the Moritani.
CHAPTER 3
Grumman is aflame, as the Moritani and allied minor houses take their frustrations out on the Charteriis holdings. Lord Nikolai summons Raffaen, and entrusts him with breaking the siege of Forschstag. There are certain treasures Nikolai considers fundamental to the House’s identity. Raffaen is to be dispatched with Vrashencko, Annaric and Nexiis to recover these treasures. They are further ordered to gather up all those who wish to escape – which technically violate the system of Faufreluches as the pyons belong to the land.
Ranemiro Demios-Toleda interrupts the briefing to tell of swift reaction of the Imperium – the fate of Freidhrich, Lord of Albrecht is not to be a happy one. His mismanagement, and treachery spells the end of his budding Minor House – and he will live out his days in a Pain Amplifier. A new more fearsome Judge of the Change, Caid Mikael Fenric, and a full legion of Sardaukar have already been dispatched to Grumman to restore order. Estimated travel time from Kaitain IV suggest the Moritani, Charteriis and Ginaz have 2 weeks to get their house in order – lest they invite the wrath of the Sardaukar. The Demios-Toleda demand all Charteriis personnel off world by that point, such that the situation can be allowed to cool before the Charteriis are forced to answer to the Judge.
The three weapon masters Annaric, Nexiis Raffaen, and the Spymaster Vrashencko prepare for difficult military campaign to salvage as much materiel and men as they can from Grumman. A Tri-D projector shows the crushing assault by the enraged Moritani on the Charteriis capital Forschstag, the major port city Ibrahim Sands, and scattered enclaves over the Charteriis fees.
Commandeering a lightly damaged Prinzporio Lighter, in addition to the remarkably undamaged Charteriis ships, the elements of the entourage chosen for the assault on Forschstag take to the air. The landing grounds echo the characteristic, thunderous staccato explosions as the ugly black metal lighter lumbers into the air. Nexiis directs the Charteriis vessels, with very specific commands to Warmaster Bellios, to Ibrahim Sands. The stolen Lighter is tilted towards Forschstag where its Prinzporio livery will afford some element of surprise.
Charteriis House Troopers are landed at the rear of the Moritani positions in Forschstag. Raffaen offers an inspiring speech to the pyons – who seem primed now to aid in the guerrilla action. Under guise of an attack run on the Keep itself the commandeered Prinzporio ship is landed near one of the several escape positions from the keep, this one within the shell of the shattered Operatic Coliseum. Simultaneously the guerrilla troopers use attack and fade tactics to draw the Moritani away from the Keep.
The retinue, consisting of Vrashencko and the three weapon masters together with a band of House Troopers enter Forschstag – where they find the well ordered defence awaiting them. Troopers of Nikolai’s personal guard are insistent that the treasures be accorded the utmost priority – before men or materiel. The retinue however hope to recover all, even at some risk to their stolen Lighter. They have a few final plays to make; a Stone Burner, a weapon that skirts the convention against the use of atomics, is prepared as a final resort. The precious Stone Burner codes issued to Vrashencko by Lord Nikolai prior to this crucial mission.
Making swiftly back to the hidden vessel, with the treasures from the Monastery of Dur, the entourage encounter Moritani resistance with the Operatic Coliseum, this is quickly overwhelmed. The Moritani flee but call in Ornithopters to cover their rout. On the ground the Lighter is vulnerable and is forced to blast free of the shattered Coliseum, leaving behind many escaping Charteriis troops. The Lighter is badly damaged by ground based Lasgun Batteries and is forced to climb for high atmosphere to escape destruction. Meanwhile the break-out forces from Forschstag is quickly picked off as they emerge from the embattled keep. Heavily damaged the private shuttle of Nikolai, piloted by a member of his private guard, makes free of the whirling aerial melee, but angles toward docks – as it crashes into the waves the Stone Burner is triggered – a cruel second sun flashes – and the scene is lost as billowing clouds of steam envelop the city. With that sacrifice the air superiority of the Moritani is eliminated at a stroke – allowing Charteriis ground forces to make a break out.
The crippled Lighter makes for high atmosphere only to encounter the Moritani command ship – things look initially grim – but the ships from Ibrahim Sands had been ordered to a supporting position and escape is snatched from under the shadow of calamity. In the ensuing days stories filter through of the impossible Relief of Forschstag – troops filter through with stories of selfless gallantry. Annaric is forced to re-evaluate the Charteriis House Troopers, specifically those who wear the livery of Nikolai’s personal retainers.
Given the additional instability caused by the Charteriis actions the Demios-Toleda place a ban on any further action without their consultation and express permission – already grappling with their new allies. The Demios-Toleda wish to ensure that reckless actions don’t cause any Charteriis to fall into the hands of the Moritani – which would complicate the Ginaz management of the situation when all on Grumman answer the Sardaukar Judge of the Change.
Only the last redoubt of Arkae’de remains, an insignificant mountainous retreat. Vrashrencko informs the entourage that it is the location of the House hard currency, Solarii, reserves. The Spymaster, Annaric, Raffaen and Nexiis quickly decide to attempt a strike to recover the financial reserves and the men. Forced to gain permission of the Ginaz, the entourage report their target to the Demios-Toleda. They choose not to tell Ranemiro of the financial importance and choose to dress the mission in the trappings of Honour, describing it as the right thing to do to rescue the men from this last loyal outpost. Lord Sebastino assents, but demands Ranemiro accompanies the Charteriis so he can see this valour first hand.
The entourage inform Lord Nikolai of their hopes to secure the reserves, which he dashes, claiming that they are empty – exhausted it seems in bringing the Charteriis to the point of ascension on Grumman. The retinue decide to continue – if only because the have already inveigled the Demios-Toleda – and a sudden volte face after their grand talk of Honour will reveal too much to their increasingly perturbed allies. Indeed as more men and materiel arrives – the logistics of moving the Charteriis off world increase, as does concern at the sheer weight of numbers. If the Demios-Toleda had expected absorbing a rag tag house – their worries must be expanding exponentially.
With the change in priorities, the mission becomes ‘merely’ the rescue the besieged men of Arkae’de. Ironically this lends flesh to the lies initially fed to Ranemiro. The entourage make it known to the smugglers, employing Vrashencko’s network, that the mountain top fort is indeed the location of the financial reserves of the Charteriis House. The Charteriis hope to use the chaos, in the scramble for the Solarii, to funnel out the men.
Moritani Battlenet traffic increases 30 fold on the following hour – the smugglers performing as expected. Taking a house lighter the Charteriis observe as the Moritani minor house fall upon each other to claim the treasure. Destruction of a nearby dam reveals an escape route from the fort. Perhaps 3000 men, their families – even their hunting dogs are recovered. The rescued men feel doubly indebted to their rescuers – believing they have been rescued and the Solarii reserves abandoned. Ranemiro is impressed by the honourable actions of the Charteriis – and his unease lessens. Raffaen is also affected by the outpouring of joy from the rescued Charteriis.
In the following days, accusation and counter-accusation regarding the fate of the missing funds between the Moritani Houses, Great and Minor, lead to the near outbreak of internecine war – and possibly prevents any decisive strike being mustered by the Moritani before the arrival of the Sardaukar.
The Charteriis return in quiet triumph to Neo Byzantia. As the day of departure draws nigh, concerns about the Guild now fill all with dread. The Ginaz do not yet know fully the alleged complicity of the Charteriis in the incident at the na-Counts ascension. The Demios-Toleda do not know what forced the Charteriis to switch allegiance so dramatically – they were not granted the luxury of questioning their White Knight when Neo-Byzantia was aflame. Finally forced to confront Lord Nikolai - Vrashrencko and the trio of Weapon-masters - ask how he hopes to escape this final crushing trap.
Nikolai’s primary concern is to get his shattered House off world. If they are within reach when the new Judge of the Change arrives who knows what summary justice might ensue. Safer on Marcincko it might take years for a Proces Verbal to force them to answer for their actions on Grumman. However to get off world – and escape the Sardaukar – the Charteriis need the compliance of the Guild.
Nikolai’s hawk like features stretch taut as he turns his twisting mind to the problem. The hyper-mathematicians of the Guild are known to demand complete certainty before action, a resonance of the exacting nature of the computations required for space travel. If the famously cautious Guild could be made to question their investigation’s conclusion, if Nikolai can invoke a higher authority the Guild would hesitate before taking any unilateral action against the Charteriis. It also must be done immediately.
Nikolai shows the depths of his bravado, and chooses a path fraught with the greatest peril. His boldest play yet.
“So the Moritani accuse us of complicity with the unfortunate Agon’s death! I will demand the treacherous Moritani bring their slander into the Courts, before the Sysselraad, the Landsraad - I will answer before the Emperor himself if needs be…” He continues in a whisper, “and his Truthsayer!”
Such a bold action must give even the Guild pause. Or so you must hope. The Demios-Toleda are shocked by the revelation of exactly what spurred the Charteriis to switch allegiances – but their willingness to answer the ‘base’ accusations before a Truthsayer impresses as much as it frightens them.
All but Nikolai are marched onto the awaiting lighters as the startling address from the Lord Charteriis is played to the planet and relayed in turn the Imperium. You can only pray the perfect statistical analysis of the Guild is shifted in your favour.
As the train of ships depart Grumman you pass Gamont towards the immense Guild Heighliner. From the very same Heighliner emerges the Judge of the Change, and his Legions in black, ugly vessels. The presence of the Sardaukar fills the Niushe System with the promise of crushing violence. Perversely it also protects the Charteriis from any final daring attack by the Moritani.
At last in the titanic embrace of the Guild ship – the journey begins – as does the fear of the Guild’s reaction. Two fraught weeks pass – with tensions growing onboard the ships. However, with the arrival at Marcincko the tension seems finally to be lifted – safety. However before they can leave the Heighliner, the Guild curtly informs the Charteriis that they shall be interviewed by a dreaded agent of the Guild.
The end of this book marks the shift from LUG Chronicles to my new d20 system. Revelation in Book 3 mean that i will be going back and adding scenes some PCs where previously unaware of.We are well into Book 3 - Master of Assassins
BOOK 2 Code of Assassins
CHAPTER 1
The face of a young man contorted in exertion. Tears and sweat eke out a path across his features – cutting through dark cloying oil. Azure eyes burn with the desperation of survival. The youth is bleeding, from a puckered wound above the heart. His tunic has been torn free – bloody stripes from the claws of whatever pursues are all that remain.
Amidst the post-industrial rubble he tenses and launches himself at the twisted metal that surrounds him – a self-destructive act it seems. He tears at the wound above his heart, roaring in pain but drawing forth an obscene dull metal ComNet transmitter – which buzzes angrily – the servok mechanisms damaged. Casting it into an oil filled pit – the youth scales rusting beams giving him a vantage over the pit.
Two soot black taiga tigers, each adorned with pulsing collars, prowl beneath the vantage. One vaults into the pit where it quickly becomes enmeshed in the polluted debris. The second though sniffs as the blood drops from the individual above…
The view shifts, lurching suddenly, drawing back to reveal the industrial ruins framed by a pixilated view screen. A darkly baroque chamber – there is the muffled atonal sound of semuta music. Two figures watch the unfolding drama – which we can no longer see. Instead we see the leering albino face of Sekandr, the na-Duke Charnizai, as he hands a full glass of bludvine to Raffaen Charteriis.
Then the scene lurches and they are standing side by side in Fal Dansken – for the ascension of na-Count Agon.
Agon is greedily informing Sekandr;
“On the day I am declared Count we shall resolve the matter of Kanly with the Ginaz. I travel now to the court of the Emperor to receive his blessing in our enterprise.”
The scene explodes –Agon’s golden ship is aflame – describing a groaning arc – which climaxes with a shuddering impact with the Guild ship.
The rain of fire falls into darkness from which loom suggestions of the Monastery of Dur; Chevalier Alexander prostrate on the red clothed altar is bathed in the fire He screams..
Images swim faster . Neo Byzantia – the Cathedral of the 13 Martyrs on the Spilled Blood. Death, always death at the hands of the Charteriis. The Kamikierz dying in the streets at the hands of the mob. Sekandr’s revelation. The relief of Arkae’de – the fortress of the Charteriis reserves.
Then the peace of space – the enveloping vastness of the Guild Heighliner.
CLICK
Raffaen awakes in the Demios-Toleda frigate. Space sickness has affected him and many amongst Lord Nikolai’s personal retinue. The soft sound of the proximity claxon announces that the Guild shuttle is docking – a Guild agent is at this moment preparing to enter the frigate.
The door to the chamber opens – light pours in. Revealing Vrashenko, Viktor and Annaric, who had come to rouse the scion of the Charteriis. It also illuminates a ravening sliver of razor sharp metal – suspended by a Holtzmann field and animated by malign purpose. It hisses and darts for Vrashenko – but is caught mid flight by a perfect throw of a flash of StimTea – by Raffaen.
An assassination attempt! Vrashenko quickly secures the scene – whilst the others prepare to greet the Guild. Vrashenko logically determines that the device is being controlled from out with the ship as a Sonar probe reveals the controller is not within the ship. The Spymaster sweeps towards the main air-dock - only to discover the arriving Guild Shuttle secures it. Thinking swiftly he orders House Troopers to the emergency air-dock. There - after a brief struggle they capture the assassin. The sleeper is still in the ruins of the bulky suit - the burnished brass of the ornate helmet discarded. He rails against his captors as Vrashenko enters;
"Traitorous Charteriis dogs."
Before the Spymaster can interview the prostrate assassin, the figure slumps in death. A suicide capsule thwarts the Spymaster.
Meanwhile the remaining entourage faces off with the arriving Agents. A phalanx of inhumanely tall, dark, oily iridescent figures loom from the baroque air-dock. They tower over the house troopers, as they slither into the Demios-Toleda frigate. The foremost amongst them carries a metallic stave topped with an arcane ComMic - which will translate his mathematical whispers into Galach.
The whispers begin - captured by the stave they are translated into an alien, mechanical voice.
"We have just folded space from Grumman." The looming figure inclines his narrow, almost tapering skull. Languid blue eyes glitter in the shadows.
"You should not fear the guild." The false voice rises and falls. "We exist merely to serve. We are the vital oil that lubricates the Imperium. Fulfill your allotted purpose - things will flow smoothly."
"We shall now consider the manifest."
All but the lead Guild Agent turn their attentions to searching the ship for contraband. Vrashenko chooses this time to inform the entourage of the assassin's demise. The assassin’s jaunt outside the ship is in direct contravention of Guild Spacing Law.
Returning the Guild Agents confer in mathematical whispers. "There is a trooper absent, where is he?" The Charteriis entourage volunteers the truth that the interloper was outside the ship to which the Guild seem surprisingly unperturbed. Having observed the body - they depart.
The Charteriis and Demios-Toleda frigates, lighters and cruisers slip from the belly of the great Guild Heighliner and begin to make their descent.
PLANET MARCINKO
HOME OF HOUSE GINAZ
Marcinko resembles Grumman so recently abandoned. Both shrouded in winter - yet this planet speaks of purity of intent - whereas on the Moritani homeworld the winter was one of the heart. The assembled ships of Demios-Toleda and Charteriis spiral through the enveloping clouds, towards New Ginaz, the capital of the Marcinko. A vast sprawling metropolis, filled with stone, frosted parks and a snaking frozen river.
There, awaiting the Charteriis on the grand landing field are great crowds of peons and a welcoming gathering of Ginaz dignitaries.
The House Troopers spill from the ships to unexpected acclaim from the crowds. Many who hold religious banners proclaiming the Charteriis as Samaritans, saviors of the Ginazette.
Marquis Morgan Lear himself, revered patriarch of the Ginaz stands with his grandson Steffan, the na-Heir to greet the overwhelmed Charteriis. What had the entourage had expected from Ginaz? Anything, anything but this pageantry and warm welcome.
The black uniforms, with flashes of royal purple contrast with the stark white of the Charteriis former masters - the Moritani. Those mindful of the Corrida Escuda know the black glove indicates purity - and the white glove indicates the poisoned blade used only in the coup de grace.
Formal welcomes and greetings are exchanged and the Charteriis retinue find themselves ensconced in lavish groundcars - part of a grand ceremony through the streets. The common folk of Marcinko have turned out in force to greet their wise patriarch, the returning Demios-Toleda and the Samaritans of the Ginazette.
Morgan, the Marquis speaks of the great fortitude and conspicuous gallantry shown by the Charteriis in their unprecedented decision to abandon the vicious Moritani. It becomes apparent he holds out hope of a true union betwixt the Charteriis and the Demios-Toleda.
The primary topic of concern is locking the two Houses once separated by the gulf of Kanly. The Chevalier, the na-Lord is to be betrothed to a direct heir, but she will not reach the age of majority for 10 years. An interim union is therefore proposed, a betrothal between the remaining heir presumptive Raffaen, and the niece of Lord Sebastino. An allegedly delightful woman of fine stock named Saviera.
During the pageant na-Marquis Steffan maintains a stony silence - regarding the Charteriis with what can only be described as restrained disgust.
The pomp ends at the steps of a grand cathedral - a stone for stone copy of the ancient Sistine Chapel of ancient Terra. Within Morgan speaks animatedly about his hopes, before drawing your attention to Michelangelo's Hand of God that dominates the dome above. A device, similar in many ways to the dreaded Pain Amplifier, which creates sensation by means of nerve induction, is embedded into one of the ornate columns that support the vaulting ceiling. He invites all in the entourage to sample the artistry of the Renaissance master. A lightning rod affords those of this age to relive the ecstasy of each brush stroke...
For Annaric the creation is portrayed as a battle, for Vrashenko and epic contest of espionage. Each takes their own thoughts from the experience. Steffan seems somewhat pleased with Annaric's reaction
With that Morgan entrust the Charteriis to Steffan - who gives the retinue a perfunctory tour of the city - obviously at odds with his wards, though he appears to share some common ground with Annaric.
The evening ends with dinner, where the Charteriis and Ranemiro Demios-Toleda break bread with the Lear family. Introduced at the sumptuous feast is Steffan's Lady, Mellisande. She speaks of her delight at the upcoming wedding, speaking highly of the youthful Saviera, who apparently was taught statecraft by Mellisande herself.
The wedding is to take place within the week on the Demios estates to which the Charteriis now depart. Swooping low over pastoral scenes of happy peasants tilling the scant equatorial region of Marcinko. Passing by the Hidden City, which lies behind a waterfall - the summer retreat of the Demios-Toleda where Raffaen and his blushing bride are to spend their honeymoon. The sweeping vessels finally alight at the magnificent Keep of Demios.
Word has still not reached those on Marcinko of the fate of Lord Nikolai, who remained behind on Grumman to answer to the Judge of the Change, the Sardaukar Caid, Mikhel Venric.
As the day of matrimony draws nigh the personal lighter of Steffan makes its arrival at the Demios estates. Arriving first to greet the Charteriis entourage cloistered within a grand chamber is the Lady Mellisande.
She shocks the gathered Charteriis with a blank demand. She states that Nikolai is either a fool or insane. Whilst his gambit may have allowed his scions to reach Marcinko - the eventual encounter with the Bene Gesserit Truthsayers will end his escapade in a pain amplifier. She offers, in exchange for full disclosure on the events in the Ginazette, to influence those of her Sisterhood to delay any such encounter. To this the entourage politely decline.
At this point Steffan arrives - and Mellisande defaults to the guise of loving wife. Steffan asks about matters concerning the wedding - specifically the list of gifts and the best man.
Raffaen ruffles feathers with his request for the na-Duke Sekandr Charnizai. Time however dictates that someone more local must be chosen. Raffaen chooses Ranemiro, his comrade from the relief of Arkae’de.
Later that evening Steffan summons Annaric, there seems to be some manner of embryonic respect. Annaric finds himself on one of the sparring chambers - where it seems Steffan wishes to test Charteriis mettle. The na-Marquis has the House Troopers clear the room. Shields sing into play, covering both with an angular amber force field. Blades whisper from the sheaths... the battle rages and Steffan is vibrant in attack but is overmatched by the Swordmaster.
At a whispered word from Mellisande however, the Swordmaster is unmanned - and Steffan wins the day - though he believes that Annaric gave the field up to willingly. Mellisande asks Steffan continue with preparations and the Charteriis Swordmaster and Bene Gesserit are left alone.
She demands the full truth of the events in the Ginazette from Annaric. His mother - it transpires was of the Sisterhood, and he is willing to tell all. Annaric turns the tale into an assault on the senses, belaboring the bloody nature of the Charteriis interventions in Neo-Byzantia. Mellisande's triumph turns to concern as she is bombarded with rapid images. Nonetheless she has the truth she seeks and flees. Its seems to be a catharsis for Annaric, unlocking elements of his past, long veiled in darkness.
The next day heralds the wedding. Dignitaries from the Atreides, and other allied houses, CHOAM delegates, Sysselraad functionaries, even Count Hasimir Fenring and his delightful wife Lady Margot.
The altar is draped with a red silk cloth on which sits a golden Goblet, containing the nuptial wine. The gathered guests await only the groom. As Raffaen walks down the aisle his features blanche. Amongst the Atreides entourage is a face from Giedi Prime. The eyes of the young man, the taiga tiger's former quarry regard him intently. Regaining his composure the wedding continues without further event.
The radiant Saviera promises to "Love, Honour, Cherish and Obey."
The honeymoon ensues, initially mundanely blissful, with Saviera the very quintessence of the doting wife. This facade collapses when Raffaen challenges Saviera with his knowledge of her Bene Gesserit training. Saviera is delighted by the open-ness and it seems a nucleus of a true understanding is forged as the honeymooners meet each other as a challenge.
With the wedding passed the Demios-Toleda move quickly to absorb the Charteriis. The entourage and the house troopers are to be enrolled in the Ginaz Sword School. Whilst the entourage is assigned individual teachers - the common troopers are mixed with Demios-Toleda, Ussurus, Lear and Ginaz troopers to found a common sense of identity.
The famed Ginaz Sword School occupies an entire continent. All are enrolled – though Steffan advises that Annaric will learn little from his old master and takes on his tutelage personally. The House Lighter sweeps over the continent where War – in it’s many archaic and modern form is played out in the battlefields below.
As with all things Ginaz – religion pervades the teachings.
Vrashenko is assigned to a learned Zensunni Master. There his Spymasters desire for answers – his need for a grip on the universe is challenged.
You cannot manipulate a marionette with only one string.
The Zensunni Whip
Ultimately, all things are known because you want to believe you know.
Zensunni Koan
Answers are a perilous grip on the universe. They can appear sensible yet explain nothing.
The Zensunni Whip
Victor's enigmatic master, a Zensufi Mystic has but a one lesson to instill.
Uproot your questions from their ground and the dangling roots will be seen. More questions!
Mentat Zensufi
Equipped with this Viktor re-examines the tenets of the Mentat faith.
Education is no substitute for intelligence. That elusive quality is defined only in part by puzzle-solving ability. It is in the creation of new puzzles reflecting what your senses report that you round out the definitions.
Mentat Text One (decto)
Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become ignorant.
Mentat Text Two (decto)
Ready comprehension is often a knee-jerk response and the most dangerous form of understanding. It blinks an opaque screen over your ability to learn. The judgmental precedents of law function that way, littering your path with dead ends. Be warned. Understanding nothing. All comprehension is temporary.
Mentat Fixe (adacto)
You will learn the integrated communication methods as you complete the next step in your mental education. This is a gestalten function which will overlay data paths in your awareness, resolving complexities and masses of input from the mentat index-catalogue techniques which you already have mastered. Your initial problem will be the breaking tensions arising from the divergent assembly of mentat overlay integration, you can be immersed in the Babel Problem, which is the label we give to the omnipresent dangers of achieving wrong combinations from accurate information.
The Mentat Handbook
Above all else, the mentat must be a generalist, not a specialist. It is wise to have decisions of great moment monitored by generalists. Experts and specialists lead you quickly into chaos. They are a source of useless nit picking, the ferocious quibble over a comma. The mentat-generalist, on the other hand, should bring to decision-making a healthy common sense. He must not cut himself off from the broad sweep of what is happening in this universe. He must remain capable of saying: "There's no real mystery about this at the moment. This is what we want now. It may prove wrong later, but we'll correct that when we come to it." The mentat-generalist must understand that anything which we can identify as our universe is merely part of larger phenomena. But the expert looks backward; he looks into the narrow standards of his own specialty. The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself: "Now what is this thing doing?"
The Mentat Handbook
A black swan is an outlier, an event that lies beyond the realm of normal
expectations. Most people expect all swans to be white because that's
what their experience tells them; a black swan is by definition a
surprise. Nevertheless, people tend to concoct explanations for them
after the fact, which makes them appear more predictable, and less random,
than they are. Our minds are designed to retain, for efficient storage,
past information that fits into a compressed narrative. This distortion,
called the hindsight bias, prevents us from adequately learning from the
past.
Nassim Nicholas Taleb
Ancient Terran proto-Mentat
Raffaen is given the daunting task of facing the master of the Academy itself, Anselm Ginaz. His training begins with a simple request… “Show me how you fight.” Anselm observes with impervious silence as Raffaen dutifully engages with a Servok Fighter set to seven bars. Raffaen’s ability is not in question. However Anselm demands to see the fight again – this time without weapons. These and other challenges to Raffaen’s pre-conceptions continue through out the 3 years the entourage spends at the academy.
Swordsmanship, A Zen Koan.
Matajuro Yagyu was the son of a famous swordsman. His father, believing that his son's work was too mediocre to anticipate mastership, disowned him.
So Matajuro went to Mount Futara and there found the famous swordsman Kanzo. But Kanzo confirmed the father's judgment. "You wish to learn swordsmanship under my guidance?" asked Kanzo. "You cannot fulfill the requirements."
"But if I work hard, how many years will it take me to become a master?" persisted the youth.
"The rest of your life," replied Kanzo.
"I cannot wait that long," explained Matajuro. "I am willing to pass through any hardship if only you will teach me. If I become your devoted servant, how long might it be?"
"Oh, maybe ten years," Kanzo relented.
"My father is getting old, and soon I must take care of him," continued Matajuro. "If I work far more intensively, how long would it take me?"
"Oh, maybe thirty years," said Kanzo.
"Why is that?" asked Matajuro. "First you say ten and now thirty years. I will undergo any hardship to master this art in the shortest time!"
"Well," said Kanzo, "in that case you will have to remain with me for seventy years. A man in such a hurry as you are to get results seldom learns quickly."
"Very well," declared the youth, understanding at last that he was being rebuked for impatience, "I agree."
Matajuro was told never to speak of fencing and never to touch a sword. He cooked for his master, washed the dishes, made his bed, cleaned the yard, cared for the garden, all without a word of swordsmanship.
Three years passed. Still Matajuro laboured on. Thinking of his future, he was sad. He had not even begun to learn the art to which he had devoted his life.
But one day Kanzo crept up behind him and gave him a terrific blow with a wooden sword.
The following day, when Matajuro was cooking rice, Kanzo again sprang upon him unexpectedly.
After that, day and night, Matajuro had to defend himself from unexpected thrusts. Not a moment passed in any day that he did not have to think of the taste of Kanzo's sword.
He learned so rapidly he brought smiles to the face of his master. Matajuro became the greatest swordsman in the land.
Nexiis studies with the greatest Warmasters of the Era - again though the mysticism that pervades the Academy come to the fore with such doctrines as
There is no teacher but the enemy.
Mazer Rackham
Nexiis’ curriculum involves non linear Critique of Clausewitz’s concept of Total War, A hyper-parallel reading of Sun Tzu’s Art of War. Culminating in Nicolo Machiavelli’s The Prince – which is indeed for all, attending the Sword School, required reading.
That Which Concerns A Prince On The Subject Of The Art Of War
A PRINCE ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline; for this is the sole art that belongs to him who rules, and it is of such force that it not only upholds those who are born princes, but it often enables men to rise from a private station to that rank. And, on the contrary, it is seen that when princes have thought more of ease than of arms they have lost their states. And the first cause of your losing it is to neglect this art; and what enables you to acquire a state is to be master of the art. Francesco Sforza, through being martial, from a private person became Duke of Milan; and the sons, through avoiding the hardships and troubles of arms, from dukes became private persons. For among other evils which being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be despised, and this is one of those ignominies against which a prince ought to guard himself, as is shown later on. Because there is nothing proportionate between the armed and the unarmed; and it is not reasonable that he who is armed should yield obedience willingly to him who is unarmed, or that the unarmed man should be secure among armed servants. Because, there being in the one disdain and in the other suspicion, it is not possible for them to work well together. And therefore a prince who does not understand the art of war, over and above the other misfortunes already mentioned, cannot be respected by his soldiers, nor can he rely on them. He ought never, therefore, to have out of his thoughts this subject of war, and in peace he should addict himself more to its exercise than in war; this he can do in two ways, the one by action, the other by study.
As regards action, he ought above all things to keep his men well organized and drilled, to follow incessantly the chase, by which he accustoms his body to hardships, and learns something of the nature of localities, and gets to find out how the mountains rise, how the valleys open out, how the plains lie, and to understand the nature of rivers and marshes, and in all this to take the greatest care. Which knowledge is useful in two ways. Firstly, he learns to know his country, and is better able to undertake its defence; afterwards, by means of the knowledge and observation of that locality, he understands with ease any other which it may be necessary for him to study hereafter; because the hills, valleys, and plains, and rivers and marshes that are, for instance, in Tuscany, have a certain resemblance to those of other countries, so that with a knowledge of the aspect of one country one can easily arrive at a knowledge of others. And the prince that lacks this skill lacks the essential which it is desirable that a captain should possess, for it teaches him to surprise his enemy, to select quarters, to lead armies, to array the battle, to besiege towns to advantage.
Philopoemen, Prince of the Achaeans, among other praises which writers have bestowed on him, is commended because in time of peace he never had anything in his mind but the rules of war; and when he was in the country with friends, he often stopped and reasoned with them: "If the enemy should be upon that hill, and we should find ourselves here with our army, with whom would be the advantage? How should one best advance to meet him, keeping the ranks? If we should wish to retreat, how ought we to set about it? If they should retreat, how ought we to pursue?" And he would set forth to them, as he went, all the chances that could befall an army; he would listen to their opinion and state his, confirming it with reasons, so that by these continual discussions there could never arise, in time of war, any unexpected circumstances that he could deal with.
But to exercise the intellect the prince should read histories, and study there the actions of illustrious men, to see how they have borne themselves in war, to examine the causes of their victories and defeat, so as to avoid the latter and imitate the former; and above all do as an illustrious man did, who took as an exemplar one who had been praised and famous before him, and whose achievements and deeds he always kept in his mind, as it is said Alexander the Great imitated Achilles, Caesar Alexander, Scipio Cyrus. And whoever reads the life of Cyrus, written by Xenophon, will recognize afterwards in the life of Scipio how that imitation was his glory, and how in chastity, affability, humanity, and liberality Scipio conformed to those things which have been written of Cyrus by Xenophon. A wise prince ought to observe some such rules, and never in peaceful times stand idle, but increase his resources with industry in such a way that they may be available to him in adversity, so that if fortune changes it may find him prepared to resist her blows.
The academy lessons are fated to be interrupted. Na-Marquis Steffan Lear returns from Kaitain IV, where he serves in the Emperor’s court as the House Ginaz Landsraad representative.
Disturbing rumour of heresy, of violation of the holy proscription “thou shalt not make machine in the image of man’s mind” leaks from Ix and Richese, sister planets of Eridani A.
The Emperor had thought to send his Sardaukar and the Inquisition Ars Technica. However the great Houses feared this was a power play by the Emperor; to seize the technological wealth of Ix and Richese for himself. Resolving to prevent this the Landsraad considers the trusted Ginaz, whose legendary adherence to the Butlerian Tenets, as ideal escorts for the Inquisition… no Sardaukar will step foot on Ix or Richese.
Unwilling to leave untrusted forces behind, and eager to test the loyalty of the Charteriis Steffan decides to take them to Eridani A as part of Inquisitions’ escort.
The assembled great houses of the Landsraad and the sleek Cruisers and Frigates of the Sardaukar gather above the out-freyn planets of Richese and Ix. Lear, Ginaz and the combined Demios-Toleda / Charteriis thunder through the clouds towards the sprawling white steel and glass city of Lugdunnum. Which stands in stark contrast to the black exposed viscera of the rest of the planet, which is turned over entirely to the manufacture of technology for the Imperium.
SYSTEM ERIDANI A
PLANETS IX & RICHESE
HOME OF THE OUT-FREYN TECHNOCRACY
(See also Butlerian Jihad, Exarch of Ix)
Alighting on the field - the Ginaz Troopers move to secure the landing. As the cassocked Monks of the IAT begin to emerge from their cruciform frigate a tremendous flare of light rips through their vessel, and as dominos through the nearest vessels. Ginaz House Troopers are scattered like leaves in an autumnal wind - the waiting Ixian delegation is thrown backwards - and fall back in disarray to their angular spaceport building.
With determination and good order the Ginaz follow, seizing control, and capturing the Ixian Technocrat - he pleads for mercy - at the same time cursing the Ginaz. The Technocrat seems sure that this is staged - to allow a pretence for a full invasion of Ix and Richese. He makes the point that the Imperium comes begging for the technology whilst in the same breath curses those who provide it.
Communication with the Armada above is thwarted by some powerful jamming signal. However those lying in space above can still transmit. Caid Mikhel Venric's face flashes onto the many viewscreens dotting the terminal.
"Ginaz - respond!" Venric's fierce features fill the screen.
"No response sir. They must have been annihilated in the first attack." A second voice.
"This will not stand - bloody Ixians - prepare the crushers. Ginaz - fall back to the Spaceport." The transmission is lost in static.
A shadow falls over the sun as something hurtles from the firmament.
Steffan is gravely concerned; this it seems is an obvious ploy by the Emperor. Perhaps an assassination attempt on the Exarch himself - so he can be supplanted. As the discussion rages Steffan and the Charteriis convince the Technocrat delegate that they are not the vanguard of an invading army - but the Exarch is truly in danger - from the Sardaukar above.
The first crusher rocks the city. The acres of glass enclosing the Spaceport explode inwards - showering entourage and Ixian alike. Steffan commands the Charteriis to hold the Spaceport, whilst he goes overland to the Exarch's palace.
As he departs the Charteriis determine the source of the jamming must be local. The entourage decides to restore ComNet communications with the Armada above. If they are successful the Sardaukar can hopefully be reigned in.
The entourage makes brisk pace through the shuddering metropolis - as more crushers rain from above. The entourage engages with Ixian Technocrats who seem intent on maintaining the signal. After a brief battle in the control centre with three Technicians, the Comm. Array jamming signal is thwarted and communication with the Armada above restored. Quickly the Charteriis demand a cessation of hostilities - and as they do so the last crusher falls on the Comm. Array. Atreides lighters escorted by Moritani frigates quickly descend to secure the landing field. Old enemies - eyeing each other - uncertain of the situation in Lugdunnum. The Ginaz move quickly to the allied Atreides ships, Steffan with his prize, the Exarch of Ix.
Blasting free from the shattered city the uneasy squadron ascends towards the awaiting Armada. Once space borne Steffan refuses to hand the Supreme Technocrat to the awaiting Sardaukar, claiming, "only to the Inquisition will he relinquish his ward". The Ginaz repair to their larger vessels - those not sacrificed below.
The Armada remains in watchful orbit of Ix - unwilling to leave the technocopia below to the Sardaukar. The Ginaz depart, but not for Marcinko...
PLANET GINAZ
FORMER PLANET OF HOUSE GINAZ
(See Butlerian Jihad, Holtzmann, Ginaz Swordschool)
Steffan explains, "We maintain an archeological, and theological presence here. Or at least that is how it appears to outsiders. The original Ginaz Sword School, where men might know the truth of themselves, remains here. Here my men and I have become formidable warriors - in time they will be a true force to be reckoned with. The Exarch will be safe here - amidst the ruins of the Butlerian Jihad."
Steffan reveals himself as the Grand Master of the Ginaz Templars.
"You have become men amongst the Ginaz, shown honour. When Morgan, my grandfather allowed you to come to Marcinko - he hoped to redeem you. I - to my shame - hoped merely to use you. Now I share with you my greatest work. May the Hand of God go with you all."
The time at the true school is cut short - the Marquis, Morgan Lear is dead. All must return to Marcinko.
PLANET MARCINKO
HOME OF HOUSE GINAZ
The once pristine alabaster sphere is smeared with black. The volcanoes of the northern landmass are in full bloom - shading the world with darkness. Steffan relates - "even the world mourns the passing of our revered patriarch." The Charteriis thoughts focus on the nature of that death, fair or foul.
The sleek cruisers of the Ginaz cut through the shroud of ash blanketing the upper atmosphere. The vessels alight somberly on the field. Once filled with the glorious riot of pageantry, when Morgan welcomed the Charteriis, but now the landing field is silent. Black ash chokes all.
On distant Kaitain IV, seat of Imperial power and the Landsraad, the thoughts of many are with the Ginaz. The death of the revered Morgan coupled with the sequester of the Ixian Exarch has lead to murmurs. The succession of the younger Marquis spells a more dynamic future for the previously sedentary Ginaz, and as such fires the interest of all.
On Marcinko the entourage prepares for the funeral. However their thoughts are steered elsewhere. A message from the Demios estates; Lucius Deen requests that Viktor attend to Nikolai, whom the Cheops master alludes is teetering on the edge of mental collapse. Vrashenko's spies also inform the entourage that the Chevalier Alexander's heretofore hidden mélange addiction is becoming a problem. It seems the senior members of the Charteriis familia do not take the same strength from Ginaz as Raffaen et alia.
Annaric seeks out Steffan, finding him in the doppelganger of the Sistine Chapel. Steffan reveals that Mellisande is suing the Emperor to dissolve the marriage. She had confronted Steffan with the truth of the Charteriis actions in the Ginazette and demanded that Steffan turn the Charteriis out.
Steffan tells the Charteriis Swordmaster he had suspected something of this nature all along. In fact it is exactly this bloody instinct that drew him to accept the Charteriis plea for sanctuary. "There will come a time," he intones, "when this instinct will be needed."
The ensuing solemn funeral is some what disturbed by the new Marquess' absence. Morgan, beloved patriarch of the Ginaz lies in state for 2 weeks. Sorrowful crowds of the common folk come to pay their last respects.
With their duties at the funeral over the Charteriis return to the Demios estates, en route they see first hand the spiraling mélange addiction of Alexander. Raffaen resolves to contact the smugglers - and it transpires they are eager to deal with the Charteriis anew.
Arriving at the eccentric keep, more folly than fortress the thoughts of the entourage turn to their 'beloved' patriarch Nikolai. They find him steeped in melancholy, he openly admits his complicity in Agon's assassination - and his dreams of placing his son on the throne of Grumman. All his plans came to naught, and now he is an ancient and useless predator at bay on Marcinko. By baiting the shattered Lord of the Charteriis the entourage manage to restore some fire to him...
Nikolai, angrily and defiantly proud tells Nexiis; "I am worth 10 of you!"
Saviera draws Raffaen aside and begs that they flee to Tupile. She fears that Mellisande, who has abandoned the Ginaz, will turn against the Charteriis in full fury. Saviera reveals the Bhotani Assassins'; Nikolai, Alexander and Raffaen (and perhaps others) can consume verite with a disdain for the normal effects. Perhaps a true Bhotani Master's ability extends to even fool the Bene Gesserit's feared Truthsayers. For this aberration the Bene Gesserit once wiped those carrying the genetic markers from face of Grumman, which is why to this day the accursed. Raffaen's daughter however does not bear the marker, as Raffaen is a genetic eunuch.
Steffan summons the entourage and speaks of the end of Kanly. He awaits only the maturation of his Templar force from the true academy of Ginaz before he moves fully against the Moritani. The idea of such open warfare fills all with trepidation. However with the continued weakness of the Moritani - still lead by the weak na-Countess, the hidden legion of Ginaz Templars, and the Charteriis knowledge of Grumman - this is perhaps the time to strike. The Hand of God is truly with the Ginaz. Though some in the entourage see this confluence of events as overly fortuitous.
The date draws nigh for the graduation of the first class of combined troops from the Ginaz Academy. After seven standard years in the service of the Ginaz, the Charteriis and Demios-Toleda have been drawing together. Even in spite of Nikolai and Alexander's intransigence - Ranemiro's belief and Steffan's growing trust see the two Houses Minor growing into one. Troops long taught that Demios-Toleda or Charteriis were the enemy have grown together in esprit de corps. The Demios-Toleda and Charteriis officially take the name Cazaleto, before the assembled Sword School graduates. Graduates of all the great Houses of the Imperium (sans the Moritani - who are barred from Great School after an incident almost 100 years ago).
Anselm Ginaz, Master of the Academy gives up his sword to Raffaen.
Annaric accepts the mark of the Templars - joining Steffan's elite group.
The Harkonnen are here. Sekandr has audience with an increasingly belligerent Annaric, and his old foil Raffaen. The na-Duke relays a message from the Kamikierz "The way between us is cleansed". It seems Cesare has returned from exile in the Harkonnen Embassy on Kaitain. However to cement his power he looks for a symbol to unite the warring Moritani. The gesture - Nikolai's head on a spike - will secure his return. The message speaks of a lightning raid within the week to strike at Nikolai in his lair at the Demios Estates.
The entourage repairs to the Demios estates. They begin low-key preparation for the coming assault. They inform Ranemiro - but insist that Steffan not be told. Vrashenko's spies confirm the Kamikierz revelations of Moritani 5th columnists amongst the House Troopers.
Observation of the these traitors allows the entourage to anticipate the exact timing of the attack. As the traitors prepare to lower the House Shield a fearful Nikolai determines he is in danger and makes to flee - he easily eludes Nexiis - and escapes into the night.
Out with the keep - the Moritani raiders seeing their plan in shambles as the shield re-activates are forced to stand and die or surrender. To the surprise and consternation of Nexiis - Shane Padron, famed Moritani Swordmaster is captured, gives up his sword to the Charteriis Warmaster.
News of Shane Padron's presence reaches Steffan. Annaric had been in contact with Steffan, who had positioned Lear troops within striking distance, in anticipation of the Moritani raid. However Steffan's swift arrival surprises all, however the presence of the reviled Shane Padron guarantees Steffan would have made his swiftest way to the Demios Estates.
The sleek black Ginaz ornithopter rests in the courtyard. Flanked by his personal guard Steffan enters the library - where Annaric persuades the Marquis to conceal himself. Lest all is not what it seems. With Steffan concealed Shane Padron is brought before the entourage. As the entourage regards the man who slew Steffan's father - Nikolai's crowing voice crackles over the ComNet - "I have Cesare Moritani - he came to close to the fire, to see me burn - now we have him!”
Nikolai entered with his personal retinue and then wheeled in the captured Cesare; a bitterly thin, aged skeleton of a man, keep alive it seemed only through the science of the Ixians.
Steffan's eyes blazed, millennia of Kanly, lead only to this point. Cesare would be forced to accept defeat. The entourage, the former Charteriis, who live for treachery, however were alert to doubt. It seemed, like the proposed final assault on Grumman, to be too great a confluence of events to be mere chance. They sensed the Hand, but not that of God.
Cesare has but one gambit to play "This Kanly can end this day - give the Charteriis to me - and I will end the Kanly between us. Both out interests will be served."
"I would sooner die than spend one drop of Cazaleto, of Ginaz blood! to satisfy you. You are in no position to bargain."
Cesare, from his mechanical chair began to laugh, a wheezing metallic rasp. He taunted the Ginaz, told them that it was they who were in the untenable position.
"So be it Ginaz... Nikolai! Show Steffan the reality of his situation."
As one the Lord's retinue turn their blades - towards those who stand with Steffan. Nikolai fall to his knees before his true Lord.
"You cannot give that which was always mine!" Gasps Cesare.
Steffan winces from a body blow. From apparent defeat the Moritani rise - with guile and treachery. All realise Steffan is being baited into a fight - of course one in which the crippled Cesare will elect Shane Padron as his champion.
Cesare gives Steffan a choice, to fight, to end the Kanly using the old ways or to have Marcinko ravaged whilst he is held prisoner. Here is not the only place where Nikolai's men stand ready to act.
Steffan, a proud and unbendingly honourable man, seems eager to battle, to duel with Padron. The battle would make sense - disperse the clouds in his mind, when all around him is in treacherous confusion.
Annaric tried to speak with the white faced Padron, as did Nexus, both hoping, but they could do little to dissuade him, to suggest he break his legendary Honour Code. If his Lord bade it - he would fight, and not one whit below his abilities. However it seemed the Moritani Swordmaster did not relish the thought of fighting the son of the father he had slain. Not because he feared death, indeed he would welcome it.
Raffaen shared one last embrace with his father, before slipping a poisoned slip-tip into the old mans heart.
The gesture sought to undo the damage Nikolai's treachery had done to Steffan's soul. In bloody demonstration to Steffan that they, the Charteriis, had learned something of honour on the frozen world of Marcinko. That they had in truth been forged anew as the Cazaleto.
Raffaen's last whispered words to his father formed a promise, "one of your sons will sit on the throne of Grumman, and that throne would be made from the bones of those that forced your hand in this".
Steffan and Shane salute. They circle, spiraling closer till Steffan falls as a tornado upon Shane, who whirls free at the final, deadly moment.
Steffan Lear's style is direct, his passions his strength. His intuitions guide his blade. Yet his passions are overwhelming. Betrayal resonates within him. Shane Padron is his icy mirror, he fights with a cold detachment - found only in those with a true disregard for life, their own. He is dead already.
The raging bull, Steffan, is slowly bled, from a thousand cuts painted on his flesh by Shane Padron, fallen Earl of Turcal. The battle echoes the Corrida Escuda witnessed in Fal Dansken days before Agon's death. There, Shane Padron, triumphed over the Salusan Bull.
A final desperate roar from Steffan echoes in the library - matching that of the doomed bull. With perfect economy of movement Shane delivers the coup de grace from his white-gloved hand.
Steffan's senses shatter.
Cesare is exultant in victory. He rises from the ornate wheelchair, growing in stature, as if he feeds from the paling corpse of the Marquis. He strips free the Ixian Life Mask... the Charteriis are stunned, the Hand they had feared, working from the shadows is revealed.
Count Agon Moritani.
Kanly with the Ginaz reaches a grim conclusion. The Count, Agon, had destroyed his hated foes and the Charteriis have been his unwitting accomplices.
A filmbook prepared by House Charteriis.
Mine honour is my life, both grow in one;
Take honour from me, and my life is done;
House Ginaz was officially recognized by the Emperor in 272 A.G; when it was granted House Major status and a CHOAM Fief contract. Its history however stretches back into the very mists of time. House Ginaz can trace its roots back to the planet Ginaztera. Myriad factions within the embryonic House warred against the other until brought together by the Butlerian Jihad. With a desperate stroke of bravery the Ginaz destroyed the cyborg Holtzman, an event that ended the Butlerian Jihad and restored peace and order to the universe.
The political manoeuvring of Werner Lear culminated in a marriage with a Cousin of the Emperor. This, in combination with the disappearance of the former leader of the Ginaz, Anselm Ginaz, gave Werner Lear control of the fledgling House Minor. The Lear family retain control to this very day. This political marriage took place just before the Battle of Corrin, so the Ginaz fought valiantly at the side of House Corrino.
Several hundred years later, House Ginaz was elevated to House Major status and granted a new homeworld to replace the ravaged Planet Ginaz. The permanent CHOAM fief contract for Marcinko was only granted, some say, because the Ginaz were pushing their agenda of democracy over imperial rule. The Corrino granted this planet to the Ginaz as a bribe, they would argue, although the planet required years and years of hard labour to become profitable and habitable, so it is just as likely that it was given to the Ginaz to give them something else to worry about and focus their efforts on.
House Ginaz thrived once Marcinko was developed, its industries focusing around weaponry and warfare. The legendary Ginaz Academy of Warfare, sometimes known as the Ginaz Sword School, was opened and quickly established itself as the finest training ground for soldiers, officers, and swordsmen in the Known Universe. In the year 4796 A.G., for reasons still debated by historians, kanly was opened with House Moritani. It seems likely that the diametrically opposed political philosophies of the two houses contributed to this conflict, although it is also true that the Ginaz had a small fief established on Grumman, the Moritani homeworld. This fief had been established long before the Moritani were granted control over Grumman, and had been a source of conflict for years before finally boiling over into open warfare.
Timeline
Before Guild (BG):
7576: Holtzman thrown into cometary orbit around Planet Ginaz. Fighting intensifies on Ginaz because of its location as the first inhabited planet in Holtzman’s path.
200-108: Butlerian Jihad, Ginaz troops form the backbone of the Jihad’s elite.
108: Ginaz military units lead a large squad of Jihad forces into battle, destroying Holtzman very close to Planet Ginaz, which is devastated by the debris. It is no longer fit for human life.
89: Ginaz leader Werner Lear marries an Imperial Cousin just after Anselm Ginaz, the last Ginaz male of age and previous house leader, disappears mysteriously. Not only does this strengthen House Ginaz politically, it also gives the Lear family clear control over it, which they retain to this day.
88: Battle of Corrin. Ginaz on the winning side.
After Guild (AG):
272: Ginaz is officially granted House Major status, and awarded the planet Marcinko as a permanent CHOAM fief contract and new homeworld, replacing the devastated planet Ginaz.
283: Duke Senshisai Lear of House Ginaz establishes a small fief on planet Grumman - site of shrine to the Spilled Blood of the 13 Martyrs. The planet Grumman will be granted fief of the Moritani in 477, but the Ginaz choose to maintain this small outpost. Relations between the two houses deteriorate from this point.
337: Great Convention ratified, Guerin Lear is in attendance and considers
his silence to be one of his greatest failures ever.
4796: First recorded mention of a state of Kanly between Houses Ginaz and Moritani, when the Moritani raid the Ginaz outpost on Grumman despite a treaty of nonaggression.
9951: Marquis Morgen Ignatius Lear is born.
9971: Marquis Akiren Lear dies and Morgen Lear ascends to the throne. Ushering in a period of growing strength for House Ginaz.
10,165: An apparent failed coup by the Judge of the Change Albrecht and the Moritani casts Grumman into chaos and the Ginazette balances on a knife edge. Long hidden treaties between the Ginaz and a Moritani House Minor are revealed and the sanctity of the Ginaz minor fees is saved.
10,166: House Minor Charteriis joins with the Demios-Toleda. Steffan Lear, the na-Marquis, is prominent in support for the near renegade House.
10,067: Book 2 - Code of Assassins begins.
Recent History
Most of the last hundred years have been extremely good to House Ginaz. Morgan Lear has ruled the House for nigh on one century. This stability has helped House Ginaz achieve a position of great power, economically, militarily and especially politically. Morgen is currently poised to receive the Basal CHOAM Company contract, and enjoys many strong political ties, especially with the Atriedes, Bagrationi, Sikuni and Alman. The Ginaz traditionally support the Landsraad against the encroaching power of the Imperium, and often find themselves at odds with Houses Corrino, Qair, Wikkheiser and the old enemy – the Moritani.
However, the spate of brutal murders of Moritani Siridari has left many newly wary of the involvement of the Ginaz. Although all assassinations were technically within the Forms, the unique nature of recent developments has strained relations with Moritani aligned Houses and piqued the interest of those formerly neutral in the conflict.
The Charteriis join the Ginaz as their star is in ascendant; almost a century of stability, growing economic strength topped with a coup de theatre against their old enemy.
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House Character
Summary
House Ginaz is an extremely pragmatic house, known for its moderation in all things. While the splendours of the palace on Marcinko rivals any of the other palaces of the great houses, House Ginaz is not known to spend lots of money on itself. This reflects the traditional Ginaz belief in democracy. House Ginaz attempts to embody all of the ideas of romanticism and liberal democracy as best it can, while also respecting its strict martial past.
Most members of House Ginaz are well-trained duellists, their skills honed with extensive training and hard work. Most members of House Ginaz live an austere way of life, even in stately ceremony. The Marquis prefers appear in full regalia, indeed the Lear family use the traditional formality of protocol as a political tool at court. Any non-Ginaz are treated with the same extreme polite formality.
Intrigue within House Ginaz is practically nonexistent. There is a standing rule that if anyone plots to kill someone within the House and is discovered, the plotter is executed by the same method with which they planned to commit the assassination.
House Ginaz is mainly a political house, preferring to exert influence within the Landsraad in order to win friends and punish enemies. The Ginaz do, however, maintain a small but extremely well trained and equipped military that is a match for nearly any House’s save the Corrino. Economics are perhaps the weakest front - but the promising Basal CHOAM contract has filled looks certain to fill the House coffers.
Religion
The Ginaz are traditionally believers in Orange Catholicism, and with advancing age the revered Marquis increasingly finds consolation in religion. Most of the populace of Marcinko are observant Orange Catholics. The Marcinko OC brand of worship has an orthodox flavour to it, with an emphasis on personal prayer as well as daily worship. Given the historical association with the Butlerian Jihad there is a strong anti-technology feelings – which can lead to friction with the large middle class who manufacture advanced weapons.
Relations with Non-Landsraad Factions
Bene Gesserit
The Bene Gesserit hold a special place in the heart of House Ginaz, because of their religious affiliation. House Ginaz treats the Bene Gesserit as holy messengers doing the great work.
Bene Tleilaxu
House Ginaz has had little historical interaction with the Bene Tleilaxu, and it does not wish to increase this level of interaction. While the Bene Tleilax machines of warfare might be highly prized within the House, the House has a deep hatred of any technology that smacks of forbidden computer minds. This stems from much of the warfare that resulted from the fighting that occurred on Ginaz due to its proximity to the orbit of Holtzman. Curiously genetic engineering, however, is looked upon with curiosity rather than hatred.
The Guild
House Ginaz views the Guild as it views the Emperor. Being that the Guild is one of the three pillars that holds this society together it is treated with extreme caution. House Ginaz, like any other House, will go out of its way to not endanger its space travel privileges.
Ix
Again, House Ginaz is traditionally distrustful of the Ixians, because of the Butlerian Jihad and the destruction of Planet Ginaz by Holtzman; therefore the Ginaz would treat the Ixians in much the same way as they would the Tleilaxu, and perhaps with more distrust.
Smugglers
There is always an element that lives outside the law and House Ginaz has always had great respect for the law. Therefore House Ginaz frowns upon any who would live outside the law. Although their services may be utilized if it furthers the good of the house. No matter how much business is done, no career criminal will ever be trusted fully.
The Citizenry
The Ginaz traditionally view government as flowing from the people. This has always been their stance, though the current Marquis with increasing age has adopted an increasingly paternal autocratic style. House Ginaz does consider the care of its citizens as a responsibility not to be taken lightly. The citizens however have no right to rule, nor any real representation. As one of many tokens the Marquis always holds a kind of informal audience session once a week in which anyone is allowed to meet and petition him.
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The Home World, Marcinko
Summary
House Ginaz is located on the heavily forested and rather cold planet of Marcinko. The Ginaz originally come from the planet that is their namesake, Ginaz (which had a similar climate). However, because of the massive amounts of fighting that took place on and near Ginaz and the huge amounts of space debris that was generated by the destruction of Holtzman in Ginaz orbit, the Ginaz were moved to their current planet of Marcinko.
Ecology
Marcinko is a heavily forested planet, located extremely far from the centre of the galactic cluster. Winter is the dominant season. A variety of white pine tree known as the Marcinko Pine dominates the forests, with other plant life being confined mostly to smaller shrubs and bushes and various foodstuffs that are cultivated in greenhouses. Although the economy of the House is based on heavy industry, many ecological precautions are taken, and the wilderness of Marcinko remains pristine.
Economy
The Ginaz economy is based on heavy precision industry and production of weapons for its military and the Academy of Warfare. The Academy is one of the largest employers on Marcinko, creating jobs and stimulating the local economy. It occupies a sub-continent (similar to Australia on today’s Earth). This sub-continent is basically a large military training area and a large college, where all forms of combat are taught and any academic subject that could conceivably relate to battle is available for study.
The rest of the economy of House Ginaz revolves around heavy industry and precision crafting. This includes, but is not limited to, finely crafted blades of all sorts, projectile weapons, a small lasgun factory complex, ground cars, and acceptable electronics. The planetary economy currently lacks compared to other Houses Major; however this improves year on year.
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Faction Protocols
Crest and Colours of House Ginaz
The emblem of House Ginaz is a stylized purple and silver dragonfly, seen in profile in mid-flight, on a background of black. Purple is considered to be the primary colour of the House, followed by black and silver. Most dress uniforms are black. All members of the House are expected to display the crest of the House in some manner on their clothing, whether in formal dress uniform or in evening wear or casual clothing.
Crest and Colours of Related Houses Minor
House Ginaz, like every other House Major, has several Houses Minor with which it is officially allied, some more strongly than others. Members of a House Minor are still required to display House Ginaz livery, though they may choose to also display the emblem of their House Minor. The Demios-Toleda Honour Guard in the Ginazette wear red uniforms in memory of the Spilled Blood of the 13 Martyrs.
Internal Protocols
Honour above all, especially in dealing with nobles of the House. Even those of lower rank shall be addressed by their honorific titles during formal occasions and always when in public (i.e., when any non-Ginaz are present) unless all present are on familiar terms.
Official Code of Conduct
Honour is the watchword of the Ginaz. Always treat nobility with respect, even if your rank is higher, and even if you are insulted. If your honour is besmirched you may challenge the offender, but make sure it is worth it. The Ginaz are practical creatures and do not take offence at the drop of a hat; however, once turned to an enemy a Ginaz will fight hard until the matter is resolved. Make no move until your hand is forced, and then end it as quickly as possible. When you finally strike, do not play with your prey, go for the swift painless kill.
When you are interacting with anyone outside of House Ginaz, your actions represent the entire House. Conduct yourself with the utmost restraint; if you do something that dishonours the House there will be grave consequences to pay.
TABLE OF CONTENTS
1. History
1.1 Description
1.2 A Brief History
2. Workings
2.1 Location
2.2 Admissions
2.3 Swordmaster Training
2.3.1 Training Programs
2.3.2 Levels and Training Times
2.3.3 What is learned in Sword School
2.4 Warmaster Training
2.4.1 Training Procedures
2.4.2 Training Time
2.4.3 What is learned in Warmaster School
2.5 Other Subjects
1. History
1.1 Description
The Academy of Warfare on Marcinko has long been considered the most prestigious place to study any and all of the various aspects of war and combat. Founded many years ago by the Ginaz family (who were not at that time the ruling family of the House), its graduates are prized by all Houses Major and Minor as well as by many other organizations. The graduates of the Swordmaster training division in particular are universally recognized as the finest in the Known Universe. Although the Swordmaster training division is the backbone of the Academy, it is far from the only program offered. In particular, cadets may enrol in a Warmaster training program that is considered as solid and comprehensive as any in the Imperium. In addition, any topic remotely related to war is taught; initially this was done to provide a balanced curriculum for Warmaster and Swordmaster program cadets. These courses were eventually expanded to encompass programs in a variety of different areas. These other programs will be discussed later (section 2.5).
1.2 A Brief History
Several hundred years before the Battle of Corrin, Niuwang Ginaz opened up a small training academy on the Planet Ginaz. Niuwang, who was at this time well over a hundred years old and considered the greatest swordsman in recent history, intended to pass on his considerable knowledge to the next generation of House Minor Ginaz' nobles. This school rapidly evolved into a training ground for a new breed of warrior, crack troops recruited from House Ginaz' already
impressive army and drilled until they are among the finest troops yet known. Some say they are each a match for an individual Sardaukar, although this theory is of course never tested. The Butlerian Jihad began soon after the formation of the Ginaz school, and the newly created Swordmasters proved a formidable ally for the Corrino Sardaukar, though they were much smaller in number. The Ginaz school expanded its facilities in order to accommodate more students, and renamed itself the Ginaz Academy of Warfare; the necessities of the Jihad dictated that the trainees get more than just training with the sword.
Some twenty years before the Battle of Corrin, a major battle was fought in Ginaz airspace. The joint efforts of the Swordmasters and the Sardaukar were enough to destroy a terrible fleet of the enemy, but during the course of the fight the planet Ginaz was nearly demolished. The citizenry of House Ginaz were forced to take up residence elsewhere, but the Academy continued on in its work,
despite the loss of most of its cadets and instructors. About 350 years after the battle of Corrin, in which the depleted Ginaz troops played a crucial part in the Corrino victory, a cold, heavily forested planet barely suitable for habitation was discovered. This planet, called Marcinko, was granted to the Ginaz as a fief upon their elevation to House Major status. The Academy was soon moved to Marcinko, although it should be noted that many of the faculty opposed the move off of the dead world. It is also worth noting that at this time, the rumours of the Swordmasters' equality to the Sardaukar were particularly strong.
Soon after the move to Marcinko, the Academy opened its doors to cadets from every House, friend or foe. House Ginaz' open and democratic nature made this change seem natural, and the first rule of the Academy is that no hostilities will occur on Academy grounds. The occasional hand to hand scuffle is heavily punished, but treachery, assassination attempts, or other actions that could result in the death or severe injury of a cadet or employee of the Academy, through action or inaction, are punishable by death and by denial of admissions to the guilty party's House or organization for a period of one hundred years. There have only been a small handful of incidents (notably the Moritani incident) in the ten-thousand-year-plus history of the Academy, making the Academy one of the safest places in the Known Universe for young nobles.
2. Workings
2.1 Location
The Academy of Warfare is located on the planet Marcinko, fief and homeworld of House Major Ginaz. It occupies most of a secluded island-continent as well as a large strip of land close to the Margravian Estate on the main continent. The main continent campus houses administrative staff and most of the facilities used in major ceremonies such as graduation. The island area contains all of the training facilities, some of which are simply untamed wildlife areas.
2.2 Admissions
The admission process is extremely guarded and remains mostly a secret. It is known that there is an Assistant Director of the Academy whose job it is to have final say over all admissions decisions. Trainees from nearly every other House (that can afford the tuition, that is) are welcomed, regardless of the host House's relationship to House Ginaz. In addition, approximately half of the
cadets have no affiliation with any House, usually commoners from all over the Known Universe, and are sponsored by House Ginaz (even if they reside in an area controlled by a House, if the House does not sponsor their admission they fall into this group). After their graduation, House Ginaz earns a large commission for the placement of these graduates into Houses Major (and rich Houses Minor).
Therefore there are often two distinct groups of cadets at the Academy: those sponsored by a particular House Major or Minor (the sponsors pay the cadet's tuition and receive his or her services after graduation); and those admitted without sponsorship (tuition is waved, although House Ginaz has rights to retain or sell that cadet's services after graduation). All cadets are treated equal; their sponsorship status is not a matter of public record while they are attending the Academy.
2.3 Swordmaster Training
2.3.1 Training Programs
There are many levels of Ginaz Academy training. Several of the earlier levels are referred to as 'training levels'. These levels are achieved on the way to one of the two main programs available in the Swordschool, and therefore will only be held by cadets still in training, or those who do not complete the program in which they enrolled. Higher levels may of course be achieved, but the training times are very approximate; they are not a part of a predetermined program and will be completed at the student's own pace.
The main programs in sword skills offered at the Academy are as follows:
Basic Duel Training: 4 years. This program is analogous to an archaic Bachelor's Degree, and is most often undertaken by nobility who wish to be proficient in a duel but don't have more years to dedicate to their training. Graduates of this program achieve Level 3.
Swordmaster Training: 8 years. Analogous to a Doctorate, graduates of this program achieve Level 6 and earn the right to be called a Swordmaster. Most Ginaz trainees who go on to become House Swordmasters come from this program.
Further training can be conducted at the Academy or with any willing Swordmaster of a higher Level, and it can be full time or part time. Many instructors at the Academy continue to advance through the Levels while they teach.
2.3.2 Levels and Training Times
Level Years comments
1 1 training level
2 2 training level
3 4 Basic Duel Training program end
4 5 training level
5 6 training level
6 8 Swordmaster Training program end
title of 'Swordmaster' granted
7 12-15
8 17-20
9 22-25
10 28-32 [alleged match for a Sardaukar]
11 35-40
12 45-50
12+ ???
Note that these years are approximate after Level 6, and must be spent training FULL-TIME. Part-time advancement will necessarily be much slower. There is some controversy over whether or not Levels past 10 exist. I believe they do but will be amongst the rarest things in the Imperium -- rarer even than a highest-level Mentat. I see the Level scale as open-ended, but with anything above 9 or 10 being exceedingly rare.
2.3.3 What is learned in Sword School
Obviously, graduates of the Swordmaster program will be qualified to serve as the Swordmaster for a House Major or Minor. Indeed, it's a sign of prestige for a House to be able to afford such a finely trained champion. However, the Ginaz-trained Swordmaster is quite versatile and can do much more than just duel. Ginaz-trained Swordmasters are qualified to serve in many capacities, including. House security (overseeing guard troops as well as designing and implementing physical systems) and small-scale military operations (special forces). In addition, Ginaz-trained Swordmasters are qualified to plan short military campaigns (though not as well as a Warmaster), design and implement battle languages, improvise weapons from everyday objects (I see 31 things on this desk that I could use to kill you), perform minor shield and weapon repair, pilot ornithopters and other vehicles, and design military support facilities. A small amount of field medicine is even learned. Obviously, however, the Swordmaster's main skillset involves all manner of combat; armed and unarmed, hand-to-hand and ranged, even vehicular combat. These other skills serve to support the Swordmaster’s duties and activities and enhance his or her value to a prospective employer. Indeed, a House Swordmaster who is only employed as a duellist is having most of his or her abilities wasted!
2.4 Warmaster Training
2.4.1 Training Procedures
Unlike the Swordmaster division, the Warmaster division only offers one program, with one level of training.
2.4.2 Training Time
Each student proceeds through the program at his or her own pace. The average time to completion is 10 years. Because the program emphasizes hands-on experience, it wouldn't be feasible to complete it in less than eight years; such a graduate would lack much of the experience necessary to function as a Warmaster. Students may choose to spend more time studying specialties such as physical combat (in the Swordschool division), but most are encouraged to further hone their skills in actual military service.
2.4.3 What is learned in Warmaster School
Most House Warmasters are charged with overseeing the entirety of the House's military forces. As such, Ginaz trainees are well-versed in obviously necessary topics such as military tactics and tactical deployment, logistics, large and small scale campaign planning and military history. In addition, more subtle skills are learned, with an emphasis on psychology. A skilled Warmaster can maintain the morale of his or her own troops through public speaking, undermine the morale of opponents through propaganda, and manage the entire chain of command while commanding the respect and loyalty of all. These psychology and management skills are the secret to the effectiveness of the Academy Warmaster trainees; while not superior tacticians and strategists (though on par with those from any other program), Academy trainees are often able to squeeze more out of their own troops than other Warmasters who lack this specialized training. Additionally, each student in this division spends time learning the arts of physical combat. At graduation, they achieve a level of proficiency equivalent to graduates of the Swordschool division's basic duel training program (level 3). Many students will choose to spend more time honing these skills; however, a Warmaster specializes in commanding troops rather than fighting themselves.
2.5 Other Subjects
Academy cadets receive some training in a broad range of subjects, ranging from history to sciences, economics to personnel management. In order to support these programs, the Academy began to recruit top faculty from all over the Known Universe. Soon after, many traditional academic students began clamouring for entry because of the range of scholarship now collected at the Academy. The Board acquiesced and opened admissions to many of its non-military programs. The bent of each academic division is still based around warfare, though such a broad range of topics is studied that a fine education can be had in nearly any subject. The Academy produces some of the finest military historians, psychologists, economists, physicists, and so on. There is even a division of medicine, though it focuses largely on field techniques and could never compete with the Suk School.
...History and other notes of the Moritani – Great House of the Landsraad
“I saw thee fair and knew thee bright...
Thou art as corrupt as demons, dark as night...”
1. History...
Um... are you quoting Shakespeare here? It sounds like you're trying to quote sonnet 147, but the line is
Anyway, leaving that aside, it'll obviously take some time to read through all these, but let me first say I'd love to see a Reader's Digest/Cliff's Notes version. Thanks again for posting.
Jedi Steve-OJust some notes - the Moritani quotation is from the dune mush link that i posted - but the true quotation makes much more sense for my traiterous House Minor Charteriis.
Oh and Book 3 continues apace - the entourage (the PC party) have just been informed that their Mentat (a PC) has been a Bene Tleilaxu instrument for the whole campaign!
Steve-OBrent
...is that #325?
Yup. The newest issue, #325 has an article outlining the effects of melange and helps give stats for a sandworm, as well as a sample NPC of a Guild Navigator. Two of these areas I've already covered (spice and sandworms), but it was neat to see a different perspective.
...what in general terms is in the article? Have they given us a nod?
Hey Arta, I generally don't buy Dragon either, and I gave up on buying Dungeon when they cut the Polyhedron content. The article doesn't address our conversion, but they do mention the richness of Frank Herbert's world and present a few things to use in a fantasy setting. I'm stealing 'em for my game, so there you go.
Steve-O.Well it looks like I shall be getting Dragon #325 then - now where does one find these things?
You can pick up Dragon #325 at most hobby shops, any game shop and any of the larger book store (Barnes & Nobles or Borders).
I am especially intrigued as to their take on melange and the Navigator...
They call melange "orangespice" to avoid trademark infringement (I would imagine) and treat it much like a disease from the Book of Vile Darkness. It has addiction/dose levels, but it also gives a chart for life extension and psionic power abilities granted. I'd post it, but I don't have the issue with me.
WizO Steve-O[FONT=Arial]Sandworm (Shai Hulud)
Colossal Beast
Hit Dice: 16d10+112 (200 hp)
Initiative: -2 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft., burrow 40 ft.
Armor Class: 19 (-4 size, -2 Dex, +15 natural).
Attacks: Bite +25 melee (2d8+12); crush +24 melee (2d10+12).
Space/Reach: 20 ft. / 20 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, swallow whole, crush.
Special Qualities: Create spice, tremor sense (1 mile).
SV: Fortitude +17, Reflex +8, Will +4.
Str 35, Dex 6, Con 25, Int 1, Wis 8, Cha 8.
Skills: Listen +18, Hide +10.
Feats: Awesome Blow, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bite).
Climate: Warm Desert
Organization: Solitary or herd (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 11
Treasure: none
Advancement: 16-32 HD (Gargantuan); 33+ HD (Colossal).
The sandworm of Arrakis is an enormous creature whose sheer size is enough to make most people think twice about getting anywhere near them. For the Fremen however, the sandworms hold a deep religious significance and for the galaxy at large, the sandworms are a necessary
Combat
Sandworms attack with their tremendous bite. If this should fail, they can attack by rolling onto their opponents, crushing them.
Create Spice (Ex): The sandworm of Arrakis creates 1 pound of spice per HD each week during its natural life cycle. Occasionally, patches of spice make their way to the surface where they can be easily harvested.
Crush (Ex): The sandworm can attempt to crush its opponents by rolling on top of them. The opponent may make a Reflex save (DC 20) to jump out of the way. Crushed victims take full crush damage.
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a sand worm must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can attempt to swallow the foe the following round.
Swallow Whole (Ex): A sand worm can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of a smaller size than itself by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+12 points of crushing damage plus 1d8 points of heat damage per round from the worm’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 17).
Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Gargantuan sandworm’s interior can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents.
Tremorsense (Ex): Sandworms automatically sense the location of any rythmic vibrations within 1 mile. This range increases to 5 miles at Colossal size.[/FONT]
Playtest that one for a bit and lemme know how it goes...
WizO Steve-OCreate Spice (Ex): The sandworm of Arrakis creates 1 pound of spice per HD each week during its natural life cycle. Occasionally, patches of spice make their way to the surface where they can be easily harvested.
I thought it was the little makers who created the spice though? or am I remembering wrong? (latter is probally more likely)
I thought it was the little makers who created the spice though? or am I remembering wrong? (latter is probally more likely)
I understood it was the "little makers" who gave the Fremen the 
Water of Life and the larger worms were responsible for the spice itself. Perhaps we all need to re-read the ecology of Dune--or at least read up on the Dune Encyclopedia. WhizO Steve-O
*sage* the little makers I'm refering to are the ones that Leto II got attached to. That feed on water and such.
From what I remember though spice is indeed created by the Sandtrout aka Little Makers as they are commonly called. A pre-spice mass is formed via the combining of water collected by sandtrout and the excretions of sandtrout within the nest. The exact chemistry isn't known but vast amounts of C02 are produced forming massive pressure within the mass beneath the sand which eventually erupts. THe pre-spice mass upon contact with sunlight and oxygen undergoes a chemical transformation into Melange. These chemical reactions stimulate any sandtrout who survived the spice explosion to join their bodies thus becoming little baby sandworms.
Also just a point of interest I might add in regards to the weapons post a bit back. Melee weapons in the Dune universe were made of suprior materials and used superior production techniques then their medieval counterparts. Monomolecular edged blades, plas-steel etc. In a sense they should theoretically have higher damage and hardness. Meh just my 2 cents worth.
Your old man of the desert could take a swim on Caladan with no ill effects. The reported shield frenzy is also missing.
The current incarnation seems a little closer to a playable creature rather than the CR 35 "force of nature" posted previously. Personally I liked the force of nature.
Sandworm (Shai Hulud)
Colossal Beast
Hit Dice: 250d10+3000 (4,375 hp)
Initiative: -3 (Dex)
Speed: 60 ft., burrow 60 ft.
Armor Class: 39 (-8 size, -3 Dex, +40 Natural Armor)
Attaks: Bite +39 melee; crush +34 melee.
Damage: Bite 5d8+32; crush 20d10+16.
Face/Reach: 40 ft. x 80 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, swallow whole, crush
Special Qualities: Tremor sense, damage reduction 15/+1
Saves: Fortitude +24, Reflex +9, Will +3.
Str 75, Dex 4, Con 35, Int 1, Wis 4, Cha 4.
Skills and Feats: Hide , Intimidate , Listen , Move Silently , Search , Sense Motive , Spot , Wilderness Lore ; Awesome Blow, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bite).
Climate: Warm Desert
Organization: Solitary or herd (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 35
Treasure: none
Alignment: Neutral (Always)
Advancement: 251-750 HD (Colossal).
The sand worm of dune is a colossal creature whose sheer size is enough to make most people think twice about getting anywhere near them. For the Fremen, the sandworms hold a deep religious significance.
Combat
Sand worms attack with their tremendous bite. If this should fail, they can attack by rolling onto their opponents, crushing them.
Crush (Ex): The sandworm can attempt to crush its opponents by rolling on top of them. The opponent may make a Reflex save (DC 30) to jump out of the way. Crushed victims take full crush damage.
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a sand worm must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can attempt to swallow the foe the following round.
Swallow Whole (Ex): A sand worm can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of a smaller size than itself by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 5d8+32 points of crushing damage plus 8 points of heat damage per round from the worm’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 17).
Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Gargantuan worm’s interior can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, 128 Tiny, or 512 Diminutive or smaller opponents.
Tremorsense (Ex): Sand worms automatically sense the location of anything that is in contact with the ground and within range, so long as it is touching the ground itself.
I think we all have a good idea that the sand worms are t-o-u-g-h. I am more interested in some rules for their vulnerabilities.
I know that water was such a precious resource on Arrakis that no-one would of considered it - but how much water do you need to destroy a worm? We see in the later books that a canal is enough to keep them back, and we see the completion of the cycle when the God Emperor gets dunked in the river... but will a fireman's hose drive them back - will it damage them?
I am not so interested in a stand up fight with lasguns (even the Sardaukar lose!) against one of these! What might your players do when they know they are going in against this sort of thing?
...What might your players do when they know they are going against this sort of thing?
Run? :D
Hey guys... I've gone quite a few directions on the "sandworm issue." Again, this is what happens when you try to please everyone. The original stats got trashed and people were screaming, "It's too powerful!" so I made this next one more like a young adult worm (not Shai-Hulud) to be able to deal with it reasonably.
This is just the Gargantuan version of the creature... it can be (and probably should be) advanced from 16 HD to a Colossal version of upwards of 35 HD for powerful encounters... remember -- there are all sorts of different sized worms out there -- and only the big ones travel deep in the desert.
As far as weaknesses go, I hadn't really accounted for them, as I felt it would be more of GM call. I'm trying to really empower the GM with my version of d20 Dune.
Hope this clarifies a few things. And hey, if you don't like it -- change it!
Steve-OHas everyone seen the d20 Dune article in the new (November 2004) Dragon magazine?
:OMG! How'd they manage to do that without copyright infringement?
Wyvern
OMG! How'd they manage to do that without copyright infringement?
They called it "Frank Herbert's DUNE" so it looked like they had permission to do a little bit. It wasn't much, actually, but it's great that the info is getting out there.
Steve-OI don't really remember what the whole spice cycle was, but little makers might not be the same as sandtrout. Perhaps little makers are more like a cocoon stage, whereas sandtrout are more like larva?
I hope I made sense, as I said I haven't read the later books in a long time and am very hazy on exactly how the whole spice cycle worked.
Book 3 Master of Assassins
CHAPTER 1
An grand octagonal reading room. Stacks of books, real leather bound manuscripts, tower into the gloom before giving way to a stained glass dome. Beyond that the stars flicker through the amber gauze of the Demios Estate House Shield. Ornate seraphim, glow globes, hang in mute witness to the bloody scene below.
Inglorious death, Steffan Lear, the Lord of the Ginaz lies ruined. With him dies the greatest Kanly the Imperium has ever known. Standing over him, his breathing calm, is the pale faced killer Shane Padron. Behind this emotionless Servok-mechanism the na-Count Agon Moritani stands quietly, his face cracking with triumph.
Moritani House troopers slink into the library - affirming the regime change. Agon indicates that the they remove the crumpled form of Nikolai - victim of patricide. His arrogant regal features contort in contempt as he turn to address the rabble of the Cazaleto.
"I still have use of you - to complete my triumph. I will have you return as Charteriis. The Ginazette I give to you. It would please me if the Demios-Toleda would bend their knee to the Moritani - especially your young wife Raffaen. Tell them Ixian terrorists brought their house down. They need not know your treachery. The Chevalier rules Charteriis now - if he dies you shall swiftly follow."
His burning blue eyes turn to Ranemiro, who hangs between two Cazaleto House Troopers. His silence earned only by their violence.
"This man i never wish to see again - see to it. It will indicate your unconditional acceptance."
Viktor makes to question Agon, about the Spacing Guilds reaction to his re-appearance. He exhibits a complete disregard for ramifications. In his moment of triumph he does not even rebuke the House Minor servant for his impudence.
"Now you will excuse me - I have a planet to destroy."
With that he sweeps from the library leaving Shane Padron. The Swordmaster approaches the searing heat of Annaric's obvious hatred.
"You were his protege were you not?" The bloody Swordmaster offers the Ginaz blade to Annaric. After sweeping his gaze across the assembly - reading their defeat, sensing no violence - he turns on his heel to follow his lord.
Only Charteriis House Troopers, once Cazaleto, remain. A solido-projector in the centre of the library echoes grisly sights from the Ginaz capital city. Not given time to realise their dire peril and perhaps sue for peace - the Lear familiy put up spirited resistance in the capital city.
Then their house shields fail.
Striking at will from the ashen firmament comes ghastly red strobes of lasgun fire and the crimson signature of rocketry- smashing into the city unshielded below. The great works of the ancient Terran renaissance smothered in uncaring flame.
Crushers ended their pointless struggle. Rumours of Charnizai involvement in the ground fighting remain unconfirmed.
CHAPTER 2
The obsequious Viktor offers obesiance to the new Lord Chevalier Alexandre. The Chevalier seems to emerge from his drugged stupor with some focus, inspired perhaps by the carnage.
Viktor calculates that offending the na-Count, by refusing his request to see Ranemiro slain, will spell the end of the Chateriis, as it has for the short lived Cazaleto. Raffaen is unwilling to see Ranemiro slain, more blood spilled. Perhaps he could be merely disappeared. However he is witness to the Charteriis treachery - to let him live would to summon disaster. His fate it seems is certain.
The entourage resolve to offer Ranemiro his life - they hope to buy his trust by sending him to the ruined world of Ginaz - where Steffan's Templars await. Will the entourage's gamble pay off?
Ranemiro calls them liars and Charteriis dogs. He refuses to go quietly - only when they offer to let him speak to his father, in addition to the retreat to Old Ginaz does he even begin to think of relenting.
The unknowing Lord of Cazaleto Sebastino is then invited into the room of carnage. His reaction is a flood of grief for his fallen Lord - whose rule numbered perhaps a 100 days, compared to his grandfather's 100 years. The Charteriis entrust with him their hopes for revenge 'gainst Agon - and Shane Padron - the authors of this bloody chapter. If Sebastino will do it, bend his knee to Agon, then the Demios-Toleda - and the dream of the Cazaleto can be preserved. They offer Ranemiros life as wereguild - defying the explicit orders of Agon - turning the Demios-Toleda scion over to the smugglers for an exhorbitant price.
With Ranemiro's fate resolved - the mundane reality of a return to the Moritani fold grips the former Charteriis. The Demios-Toleda are no-less certain of the vipers nest to which they are now invited.
CHAPTER 3
Disgorged from the Guild Heighliner the ragtag former Cazaleto ships spew into the space over Grumman. A dirty pearl amidst the unforgiving black firmament. The ships circle - before falling reluctantly through the angry clouds into the unwelcome realities of the world below. The Ginazette - it's name a reminder of the broken Kanly.
The common folk gather on the landing fields - uncertain. There masters shall be the Demios-Toleda in part - and for that they are thankful - having heard rumour of atrocity on Marcinko. However their Lord and Master is now the swaggering Count Agon Moritani. An unlooked for fate indeed. His only command to the Charteriis vassal is "Tribute! I demand tribute or I shall find someone more fitting to administer the Ginazette."
The first order of business is to commend Lord Nikolai Charteriis du Moritani to his tomb. The lack of a body, and indeed Raffaen's patricide are no obstacle to the continued pageantry - this tool of statecraft. A public invitation to mourning will allow the grief at the end of House Ginaz to be demonstrated yet hidden under the veil of greif for Nikolai - who it now transpires died a hero saving the Ginazette. Saviera speaks of the Bene Gesserit Missionara Proctectiva - a millenia old scheme by the Sisterhood to plant superstition amongst common folk - superstitions that can be manipulated. She realates the forms that will be most use in binding the populace to the Nikolai myth. "Religion is a tool of state-craft."
The official Moritani story emerges, and will likely be supported by the Judge of the Change; Ixian terrorists, enraged by Steffan Lear's continued imprisonment of their Exarch destabalised the defences of Marchinko. This coupled with the unsual volcanic activity gave Agon the oppurtunity to strike. Agon of course had been in hiding since his apparent assassination at the hands of the Ginaz a decade previously. Seeing that the situation was hopeless Lord Nikolai had summoned both Agon and Steffan to his estates to settle the matter as Kanly dictated. The Ginaz Lord Steffan - enraged at the sight of Shane Padron, the killer of his father - chose not to sue for peace. In the unfortunate struggle that ensued Steffan Lear and Nikolai Charteriis met their doom. The Ginaz were punished for their Lord's lack of foresight, but Lord Nikolai's sacrifice saved the turncoat Charteriis from certain punitive action from the restored Agon du Moritani.
Reports filter from the smashed Marcinko - Sardaukar Terror Troops made landfall in the continent of the Ginaz Sword School - ostensibly to ensure the safety on the many great Houses present. It has been suggested they where in fact spoiling for battle - but Anselm Jacob Ginaz artfully side-steps the Caid's war-mongering. Perhaps saving his House Minor. His evaluation of the situation may yet save many lives on Marcinko.
As the Moritani story of Marcinko is promulgated throughout the Imperium, the refugee Charteriis and their Demios-Toleda remnant turn their attention to clearing house. Agon's final gift before his apparent death - the Master Cheop's player Lucius Deen - is now hotly considered to be instrumental in the control Agon managed to exert over the Charteriis.
Investigations commence - even amongst the wrack of the untimely upheaval from Marcinko. The Spymaster Vrashenko turns his cold eyes and colder hands to the work of extracting any and all treachery from the Cheops Master.
A hastily constructed chamber - outwith the old Demios keep - sees a scene which puts the infamous Pain Amplifiers in shadow. Vrashenko and his goons torment the fragile Deen past the ends of endurance. Once satisfied that they have reduced him to the level of grovelling beast - they confirm their suspicions.
With great cunning, Cheops tournaments had been staged in such a way as to include hidden messages for Lucius Deen. He had been informed above all things to keep the Lord and his progeny safe - but the motive was no mere altruism. Indeed the motives of the Bene Tleilax are never considered noble. It seems from the intercepted messages that the Tleilaxu are very interested in the nobles of house Charteriis. There is something else embedded within the messages which cannot be unlocked - a bizarre harmony which Lucius would sing to the Lord Nikolai - as well as Alexandre, and alledgedly Raffaen.
Lucius himself begs for mercy - seemingly a puppet created by the Tleilaxu for this purpose and as blameless as any other thing or mere instrument. In any event - to kill him would likely offend Agon, as would selling him to buy a Suk. He is instead merely placed under a more cloying guard by the the now increasingly vexed Vrashenko.
With preparations for the pomp and circumstance of a funeral underway - the entourage turn their thoughts to the arrival of the other Houses Minor on Grumman who will of course come to pay their respects. The hated Prinzporio who now rule over the former Charteriis estates with an iron tryanny, the phoenix like Kamikierz who may of been complicit with Agon in his Cesare feint, and the enigmatic Laurentii - as well as a representative of of the House Major - Shane Padron as the na-Count Agon has been again invited to Kaitain to receive the blessing of the Padishai Emperor Shaddam IV. A decade late.
Shattering news comes from the Imperial centre, a rumour that Saviera relates, the swaggering Count Agon is suing for a closer link with the Imperial household. Unthinkably, Mellisande former wife of Steffan and bete noir of the Charteriis, is said to be considering the alliance. Perhaps merely so she can finish the ragtag Charteriis off.
As it stands now the Charteriis have grand plans - but all of them require Solarii, and then there is the stifling payments that must be made to the Moritani - over a decade of tribute lost in addition to the prohibitive costs of transporting them back to Grumman and inflated rates...
Further grim implication hover in the future - the Charteriis will have their moment in the limelight before the Sardaukar Judge of the Change, Caid Mikhel Venric. Is it Agon's hope to bleed them dry before turning the Charteriis over to Imperial justice for crimes manufactured or real?
---- insert notes from Chapter 4
Preparation for funeral - consultation with the Prinzporio over route.
New Patriarch - Vasili.
Audience with the widow of Albrecht, Patrizia; Opafire gift.
Funeral - the church near Forschstag.
The choice of Vasili - pious or pernicious.
Mentat-napping attempt of Janis on return from the cathedral.
Alexandre's speech, buying a year from the Caid.
Corrida Escuda of Eckardus; Sekandr and the journals.
Awakenings in the Monastery of Dur. Viktor's admission; Bene Tleilaxu.
The feast of the wake.
Hasimir Fenring and Lady Margot.
Padron's prediction.
Armentero wine.
Shane Padron departs the feast and Eckardus follows.
Eckardus and Nexiis fight. Prinzporio outrage.
Chardriss, Agon's Mentat dispatches the Charteriis to Ecaz to allow the political situation to settle.
Discussions continue with the Albrecht 'widow' who offers herself
as a hostage.
I just wanted to thank you guys who are doing this project, because the world of Dune definately needs an rpg. I can still remember how bummed out I was when the official Dune RPG died back in 2000, not long after House Atreides came out and just before the first miniseries. You guys are doing a great service, and I cannot wait until your finished product comes out!
Keep up the great work!
The Jim
I just wanted to thank you guys who are doing this project, because the world of Dune definately needs an rpg.
Absolutely could not agree more. That's actually how this whole thing got started. I decided I wanted to play and had run enough games and seen enough books (some good, some not-so-good) and thought, "Hey. I can do this!"
You guys are doing a great service, and I cannot wait until your finished product comes out!
Thanks for the encouragement, Jim. It's gonna be worth the wait.
Jedi Steve-OThanks for all patience with this game. Now I know why companies hire a whole team of writers/designers on a project like this. Wow. It's a lot of work and my faithful tribe of fanatical Fremen followers are doing another batch of playtesting this week.
Please keep letting me know who's interested, as I'm trying to compile a list of who to send this thing to.
I re-tooled the Prana-Bindu system to run smoother (psionics), but I'm afraid it might make the Bene Gesserit a little more powerful (with some borrowing from Arcana Unearthed's Akashic class for other memories - thanks Monte!). So I'm trying to adjust the balance of the other classes to compensate.
The shield fighting system is the last of the handful or so of bugs left to work out.
I've got the psionic powers/weirding way/longevity benefits from melange pretty much worked out.
The basic classes are pretty much finished, (including Mentat, Suk Doctor, Fremen, Armsman, Bene Gesserit Adept, and Noble) but I'm still looking to polish off a rogue- or scoundrel-type class. Suggestions for a name?
There are also a handful of advanced/prestige classes including Reverend Mother, Master of Assassins, Fedaykin, and Sardaukar.
I've also got dozens of new feats that are campaign/flavor specific to Dune and the fantastic world of Frank Herbert.
I'm using the Background system from Spycraft⁚, Vitality/Wound points from Star Wars⁚, as well as a homebrew Loyalty system (blatantly stolen and renamed from the Star Wars⁚ Sympathy system in the Hero's Guide) but I'm debating using either the Starting Occupation or an alternate House Template to determine starting feats/wealth bonus, etc.
I'm a big fan of the Heir starting occupation from d20 Future, so that'll probably get included one way or another.
All in all, it's going well. Now, thanks to the swell new 2-page character sheet made specially for the game (including a huge feat list on the back) from my man in Amsterdam, making characters is a breeze.
I'll try to keep you all updated with the game's progress. Thanks again for your patience and just know that I wouldn't release it if it wasn't ready. I promise it'll be worth it.
:B: Jedi Steve-O
just a thought: go Jedi style with the Fedaykin, by this i mean that if the character ever advances in a different class after aquiring the Fedaykin adv/PrC they wont be allowed to advance in Fedaykin anymore.
Nice one, Righetti. I don't think anyone's suggested this yet and it makes great sense. Consider this the first of your (hopefully many) official contributions to the game.
Steve-OIf you're even a little unsure of who to vote for, you ought to get your head checked.
I'm offering early beta-versions of the d20 Dune game I've developed so far to those who vote in tomorrow's election (don't worry all you non-US gamers, I'll include something for you, too).
PLEASE, in the name of everything you hold sacred, please vote tomorrow and take five people with you. It's gonna be huge. It'll be the biggest turnout in American history... please come out and be a part of this overwhelming victory.
Steve-OI agree with you on getting everyone out to vote who can, no matter who you vote for. As my mom and wife both say, "If you don't vote, you can't complain".
And offering the beta-copy is a great incentive.
Incidentally, during my d20 Modern game on Saturday, my wife had me offer 500xp to whoever would go and vote for who she's voting for. As Puffy says... "Vote or Die"...
TheJim
Luckily I don't have the problem as I am using the d20 modern classes
PS No voting for me.. no no I am not in prison.. I am in the UK.
I've just finished reading through the entire posts and thought of some ideas
1. In the Wheel of Time RPG there is a class for the Aiel spearman (I can't remember how to spell the actual class name right now) that seems to me to be a pretty good fit for the Fremen and was obviously inspired by them. Just change the references to spears to daggers and add some added proficiency in desert survival.
2. If you're using the Force powers from Star Wars you might find the Psychic's Handbook by Green Ronin very valuable. Some of the abilities are a little overpowered compared to the Force skills but there are some gems in there.
3. I remember in the original novel there's a small section about the Sardukar and Fremen shortly after he kills on of the Fremen in a Duel. In any case i believe the Sardukar might qualify for a template or maybe even a different race. They are described as the result of millenia of adaptive evolution to one of the harshest environments in the Empire. In fact this is one of the main reasons Paul Atreides/Moad'dib befriends the Fremen, he believes that living on Atreides has toughened them enough to be a match for the Emperor's personal Legions.
That's all for know, more to come later.
Hope this helps and maybe qualifies me for a copy of the beta ;)
Cheers,
"In shield fighting, one moves fast on defense, slow on attack," Paul said. "Attack has the sole purpose of tricking the opponent into a misstep, setting him up for the attack sinister. The shield turns the fast blow, admits the slow kindjal!" Paul snapped up the rapier, feinted fast and whipped it back for a slow thrust timed to enter a shield's mindless defenses.
New shield fighting rules/feats.
First, the shield itself:
Armor: HOLTZMAN PERSONAL SHIELD
The most common defense in the Imperium, this is a complete body-sized, energy shield generated from a device mounted on the belt. It provides a Deflection bonus to Defense of +8 (though feats can increase or decrease this bonus) against piercing and slashing attacks. Additionally, projectile attacks are at a -2 to hit the wearer of an activated shield.
Note: Unlike Dodge bonuses, Deflection bonuses are not negated if the wearer is flat-footed.
The device weighs a half-pound and is powered for 30 minutes of constant use on a rechargeable B cell. A belt-unit costs §500. For more detail concerning Personal Shields, see the special rules concerning shield fighting.
Now, the shield proficiency feat:
HOLTZMAN SHIELD PROFICIENCY
You are proficient with using the Holtzman shield in combat.
Benefit: You can use a Holtzman energy shield and take only the standard penalties. In addition, you may activate a Holtzman personal shield as a free action.
Normal: A Holtzman shield takes a move-equivalent action to activate. Further, when you are using a shield with which you are not proficient, you take the shield's armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride checks.
Special: Some classes automatically gain Holtzman Shield Proficiency as a bonus feat. They need not select it.
And now a bunch of feats that augment shield combat:
IMPROVED FEINT
You are skilled at misdirecting your opponent's attention in combat.
Prerequisites: Intelligence 13, Combat Expertise.
Benefit: The character can make a Bluff check in combat as a move action. The character receives a +2 bonus on Bluff checks made to feint in melee combat.
Normal: Feinting in combat requires an attack action.
Note that this merely negates the opponent's Dexterity bonus and NOT the Deflection bonus.
THE SLOW BLADE...
You are highly skilled at getting by your opponent's Holtzman shield in melee combat.
Prerequisites: Improved Feint.
Benefit: The character can make a Bluff check in combat as a free action. In addition, the character receives a +2 bonus on Bluff checks made to feint in melee combat.
Normal: Feinting in combat requires an attack action. The feat Improved Feint allows you to make a Bluff in combat as a move action.
Special: The bonus to Bluff gained from this feat stacks with the
bonus received from Improved Feint.
...PENETRATES THE SHIELD
You are highly skilled at attacking through your opponent's Holtzman shield in melee combat.
Prerequisites: Imp. Critical, The Slow Blade..., BAB 6+.
Benefit: When making a successful attack agianst a target with an activated Holtzman shield in melee combat, the weapon's normal threat range is doubled.
Special: Unlike most other feats, this effect stacks with other effects that expand the threat range of a weapon.
And now, my new favorite:
ATTACK SINISTER
You are highly trained in making skilled attacks that bypass a target's Holtzman shield.
Prerequisites: The Slow Blade..., ...Penetrates the Shield, base
attack bonus +8 or higher.
Benefit: When attacking an opponent with an activated Holtzman shield, you may reduce your attack by a number up to, but not greater than your base attack bonus and reduce your opponent's shield Deflection bonus by the same amount.
Well... pick that apart for a while and let me know what's broken. I'm thinking of switching the effects for Attack Sinister and ...Penetrates the Shield. Still not sure what order and what should go where since I haven't rolled up any combat with them yet.
It still has the feinting that I liked, without all the silly attacks of opportunity that grappling (touch attack) prompts.
Suggestions? Comments? Constructive criticism?
Steve-OExample: I have a +12 to attack, my opponent has an AC of 22, including the +8 for a Holtzman shield. I need to roll a 10 or better to hit. If I reduce my BAB by 2, my opponent's AC drops by 2 and I need... a 10 or better to hit!
The Attack Sinister should grant a ratio greater than one-to-one, otherwise there's no point in using it, at least as far as I can tell. Other than that it seems like a pretty good system.
It provides a Deflection bonus to Defense of +8 (though feats can increase or decrease this bonus) against piercing and slashing attacks. Additionally, projectile attacks are at a -2 to hit the wearer of an activated shield.
What about bludgeoning attacks?Wyvern
Damning with faint praise I am afraid.
Highlevel characters, and high HD monsters will be able to penetrate the shield merely by dint of higher BAB. The shield should defeat all swift attacks. Your shield does not enforce the slow attack.
A 20th level fast hero (a Sardaukar) with a machine gun would mow down (say 4th level) house troopers. Melee combat is not enforced by just adjusting AC. Whilst machine guns don't exist - the feats as they stand wouldn't force them into obsolescence and so it makes no sense why the Imperium turned to melee combat. Players will cotton on to this fact and hurl daggers, stones, and insults.
[if you have addressed this - please be gentle i have been awake for 3 minutes
]Thanks for the heads up guys.
Steve-OI, will of course direct you to my suggestion which I think is in both of the threads already. My philosophy is that if you have a shield and a feat then you should be golden - no more fuss. Then put it all in the description of fighting.
Your approach wants to reward players for taking further feats which intrigues me - but i needed a system right now! However I can always bolt on more feats later - say something like
Attack Sinister; requires Shield Conditioning, Two Weapon Fighting, BAB +8, gives +4 to hit with off hand, increases critical threat range by 2 against a shielded opponent.
This would reflect the focus on the off hand.
I think 'improved feint' already covers your philosophy of combat. Use the feint rules to fool your opponent and then strike i.e. you must flat foot your opponent to penetrate the shield. I do think adding more feats is superfluous - swordmasters will already be running out of feats - especially with all your extra flavour feats in the running.
1) The shield doesn't really deflect attacks so much as stop them directly - so DR just *feels* right to me.
2) By trading say, -1 to attack in order to remove 2 points of DR, melee combat tends to play out the way one might expect in Dune. Combat takes longer because both participants are accepting attack penalties and may not be dealing full damage even then.
3) The actual game effects seem alright too (although this is based on a thought exercise rather than thorough playtesting). With these rules, the slow blade (ie, one with a high attack penalty) penetrates the shield, while simply attacking at full BAB in the hopes of getting lucky doesn't work.
The only real weakness I can see is the difficulty of coordinating shield DR (it would have to 15-20 I think, just to take care of critical hits) and the shield combat feat system. Unless, of course, I missed a really big problem... in which case please feel free to tear my ideas apart.
say mod the feats you have to improved fainting, or like Flick of the Wrist to cach your oppent flat-footed. and the others to give a penatration check starting off as a full attack-action as unskilled (copuled with an attack), to move-action and then to a free action.
Now to keep it for slowing down combat to much have the player roll all of the dice for the attack assuming it will penatrate.
Now don't be to hard I still have sleep in my eyes. ;)
Brent
Also it encourages STR characters - as then it is easy to defeat the DR and you hit more often.
This flies in the face of the Dune feel where I think DEX (and INT) should rule the day. Shields should also get stronger in resistance to 'beefy' attacks.
So DR itself doesn't enourage a graceful solution making STR pre-eminent.
[multiple edits for clarity]
My players don't have enough time to learn a whole new system - so we kept it as bare-bones as possible
Steve-O"Again it is the legend - Usul has summoned a big one!"
I hear you Steve-O - indeed Frank Herbert only uses the Shield technology to give rise to the psuedo-feudal Imperium. Where only armoured knights (shielded house troopers) and the rich nobles to outfit them, can effectively fight.
He then ignore shields for the rest of the 6 books. Well I suppose Miles Teg uses some Lasgun Shield interactions much later on...
...what am i saying? Well it's the effects; social and ultimately political that are more important than the game mechanics here.
...what am i saying? Well it's the effects; social and ultimately political that are more important than the game mechanics here.
thats why I'm looking at the check vs. DC to get past it in stead of a system realy. it's simple fast and direct. and you can make a whole lot of fluff with it with discriptions of the fight instead of have to roll your butt off.
brent
Brent
Holzman sheild Belt.
(progression level 9+)
Type: Tactical
Equipment Bonus: Special (see note)
Non Pro. Bonus: Special (see note)
Max Dex Bonus: +8
Armor Penality: +4
Speed (30ft/20ft.): 30ft./20ft.
weight: 1.5 lbs.
ByPass DC: 15 + dex mod.
Note: The Holzman effect stops all kinetic energy that is traveling above a speed of 10 fps. (just around number not sure what it should be). Only smartweapons or the skilled person move slow enough to bypass the holzman effect.
Here is the changes to the same feats.
The Slow Blade...
no prerequisites.
benefits: make a stunt check as a move action instead of a attack action.
...Penetrates the Sheild
Prerequisites: improved feat, the slow blade.
benefits: make the stunt check as free action, and double threat range the weapon makeing the attack.
Attack Sinister
Prerequisites: the slow blade, penetrates the sheild, flick of the wrist.
Benefits: A) with a successful threat rolled you may make a bypass stunt check as a bonus action. B) with a successfull critical hit make and a successful bypass on a flat-footed oppenent you may instead of dealing damage have the target make a Fort save (DC 10 + int mod) or be rendered incapacitated (unconscious and bleeding to death).
well try that out and lets here some feeded back.
Brent
can someone give me the rundown of the feat flick of the wrist.
Don't know that one... were you able to find the text? Can you tell me where I can find such a thing - or what it does...
Steve-Owith a little weapon you can make a some check I think it's a slight of hand, and if you win it you make your opponent flat-footed, plus you can only use it once per combat or encounter I think.
it's cool I like it.
Brent
d20 Dune is ready for the first batch of playtesting online (play-by-post). Anybody interested? I need four interested players to send me a concept and background that connects the character to House Wallach. That is, one of the character's Allegiances must be House Wallach.
To save space, please [email=spartan480@aol.com]send your concepts/backgrounds to me in an e-mail at spartan480@aol.com[/email].
I'll be choosing the first round of players on the basis of creativity/background depth and concept, not necessarily by first received. Send me a thought out character and you're at the top of the list. Take some time and do a little research.
I'll provide you with all the details on class, etc. after I see you have a good concept. I'm looking for storytellers here, not hackmasters. The characters will be 1st level (but only to start) so start with a concept that's appropriate to that level.
Who's in?
Steve-OMy problem is that 1st level characters are not going to be able to hit each other (ByPass DC: 15 + dex mod). Whislt it definetly encourages DEX heroes, which I believe is a good thing for the first 5 levels combat is going to be slow, very slow. At higher levels it will basically be increasingly irrelevant - which is a good thing (TM) but will just then be an extra mostly pointless dice roll. So again I think a simpler version of the rule is needed - that doesn't change when levels change.
ok I'v worked up some wirte ups for some test driving.
Holzman sheild Belt.
(progression level 9+)
Type: Tactical
Equipment Bonus: Special (see note)
Non Pro. Bonus: Special (see note)
Max Dex Bonus: +8
Armor Penality: +4
Speed (30ft/20ft.): 30ft./20ft.
weight: 1.5 lbs.
ByPass DC: 15 + dex mod.
Note: The Holzman effect stops all kinetic energy that is traveling above a speed of 10 fps. (just around number not sure what it should be). Only smartweapons or the skilled person move slow enough to bypass the holzman effect.
Here is the changes to the same feats.
The Slow Blade...
no prerequisites.
benefits: make a stunt check as a move action instead of a attack action.
...Penetrates the Sheild
Prerequisites: improved feat, the slow blade.
benefits: make the stunt check as free action, and double threat range the weapon makeing the attack.
Attack Sinister
Prerequisites: the slow blade, penetrates the sheild, flick of the wrist.
Benefits: A) with a successful threat rolled you may make a bypass stunt check as a bonus action. B) with a successfull critical hit make and a successful bypass on a flat-footed oppenent you may instead of dealing damage have the target make a Fort save (DC 10 + int mod) or be rendered incapacitated (unconscious and bleeding to death).
well try that out and lets here some feeded back.
Brent
Brent.
Indeed - you see I am convinced my Shield Conditioning feat (posted somewhere in the bowels of this thread*) works; so all i see are the deficiencies...erm i mean creative differences with any other system. ;)
I agree that DC10 immediately addresses this - making it accessible to low level characters. Adding a second feat to add to this difficulty class for a proficient Shield User who is actively defending is also eminently sensible and could reflect differeing styles between swordmasters. Of course I am always loathe to add any new feats.
*please go and tear strips off my version.
Brent
the shield is extremely effective, providing a DR of 50. Slow velocity
slug-throwers do exist, but are rare and not very effective."
I think I am somehow missing your point - missile weapons are never going to penetrate the shield I have presented!
I agree that I am indeed avoiding adding any minutiae of the combat mechanics, where flavour could be usefully added - I am looking for a functional system in a game that occasionally demands some combat, but which does not have that as it's focus.
Having said that I have stolen (or adapted) the form feats from D20 Starwars, which I have granted to Swordmasters who completed training at the Ginaz Academy of Warfare.
Searching this thread is a real chore - I think i had better put a web page up with my collated rules! Give me a few seconds. Or should we make a yahoo list where we can store the files?
Brent
And here was me agonising over allowing the Katana (2d6) because it was overpowered compared to the standard sword!
I had a some bounty hunter villain with a slow pellet stunner hunting the PC mentat ... once it penetrated the shield it exploded filling the shield with gas. The Mentat was forced to drop the shield to lcear the air. The bountyhunter's prepared henchgoons then pelted the Mentat with poisoned maula pistol darts. Luckily he got away - damn him
Anyone else think of some nasty ways to get my PCs?
Having already started my campaign - dishonesty against my PC's has already started in earnest.
I had a some bounty hunter villain with a slow pellet stunner hunting the PC mentat ... once it penetrated the shield it exploded filling the shield with gas. The Mentat was forced to drop the shield to lcear the air. The bountyhunter's prepared henchgoons then pelted the Mentat with poisoned maula pistol darts. Luckily he got away - damn him
Anyone else think of some nasty ways to get my PCs?
That's actually extremely clever; I'm surprised that the player escaped. Not sure I can match that level of deviousness, but here goes.
Gas Projector: Basically a reversed vaccuum cleaner that's man-portable. It's range would be relatively short and the velocity of the gas particles probably isn't all that high, but depending on what you put in it, this thing could be very deadly. I suppose that acid would work too.
Flamethrower: Same general idea; the liquid isn't moving all that fast, and since it's relatively dispersed, it shouldhave some sort of chance of "leaking" through.
Ixian Tractor Rifle: Very high tech; not sure if its appropriate for Dune. The gun would use a sensor to identify the target and guides to bullet to it down a gravity-beam tunnel, just like a tractor beam (which Herbert says they do have in Ix). As the bullet gets close to the target, the beam switches from guidance to decelleration, slowing hte bullet down enough to penetrate the shield.
Contact grenades: Explode on imact, so a skillful thrower can toss them slowly through the shield without setting it off. This could also apply to HE ammo, since that kind of bullet doesn't have to travel very fast to hurt people.
You could also use sonic weapons to disorient/nauseate your players. And with the right pitch, they won't even be able to tell what's affecting them, let alone where it's coming from!
I can't give the exact details since I don't have the book on hand, but the gist of it is this: a shield has an activation DC (15 and up, I think, depending on the quality of the shield), and if you beat this number on d20 + damage dealt, the damage is reduced by a certain amount (also dependant on the shield quality).
Off the top of my head, here are some feats you could use with a system like that:
The Slow Blade
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse, Dex 13+
Benefit: When you make a melee attack, you can reduce the damage (to a minimum of 1) by any number up to your Dex bonus. You must choose how much, if any, to reduce the damage by before you roll damage.
Penetrates the Shield
Prerequisite: BAB 5+, The Slow Blade
Benefit: When you make a melee attack against a shielded opponent, the shield activation roll is decreased by *two* points for every point of damage penalty you elect to take.
Attack Sinister
Prerequisites: BAB 8+, Improved Feint, Penetrates the Shield, Two-Weapon Fighting
Benefit: When fighting with two weapons, the shield activation roll for your off-hand weapon is decreased by *three* points for every point of damage penalty you elect to take with that weapon. You must attack with both weapons in the same round to gain this benefit, and you cannot choose to take a damage penalty when attacking with your primary weapon.
Wyvern
I'm sure I've mentioned the shield rules in Fading Suns d20 at least once in this or the other thread, but they seem to have been ignored...
Sorry if you've felt ignored, Wyvern, but it certainly wasn't intentional. We've been super-busy here trying to make sure this can be the best game possible. I "obtained" a copy of d20 Fading Suns and I'll try to take a look at the shield rules this week. Thanks again for the heads-up and for the contribution.
Steve-OHave just registered on the boards and have noticed your post regarding your Dune game..
Have you managed to compleate it now? and is there any chance of getting hold of a copy??
...just registered on the boards and have noticed your post regarding your Dune game... Have you managed to complete it now? and is there any chance of getting hold of a copy?
Hey Andrew, thanks for your interest and welcome to the boards. You're more than welcome to contribute to this thread, as it's a player-run game and contributions are encouraged.
The game isn't complete as such, but it's getting really close and I'm excited about the prospect of using the d20 Fading Suns shield system for the Holtzman shield. I'm actually getting a group together to playtest the system and see what's broken in the coming weeks. I'll be updating the game as we go and hopefully it'll be all that everyone hoped it'll be.
Steve-OI just wanna take a second and thank everyone for their contributions in keeping this thread alive and well. I'm stoked that there's so much attention being devoted to d20 DUNE and encouraged that there's obviously a demand for this product - even if we're a minority of a minority market share.
Keep up the great work!
Steve-O1) I was thinking their should be some mention in any Dune game of how to run it as a David Lynch themed game and how to run it in its more traditional “Novel” style. “While I like the acting, plot, and costumes of David’s vision I much prefer the story of the “Novels” and would run a Dune game according to Frank and later Brian’s visions.
2) I don’t quite know that I agree with making certain things “Classes” like the Freman and Bene Gessuit. These (just to name a few) are very complex races to me. Yes all races in Dune are descendants of the earlier Earth humans but they have more than just “warrior” Freman and “Witch” Bene Gessuit. The same can be said for the people of Gedi Prime this once industrial stronghold does not only produce perverted fighters. I think when it comes to the race issue a standard human race would suffice but then maybe a racial template for upbringing such as Freman, BG, IXian etc. then they can class on top of that things like Warrior, Rouge, BG Witch and finally take prestige classes on top of that such as Reverend Mother. This was suggested to me by a friend for a homebrewed Lord of the Rings D20 I did since there are so many different “Races” of humans in Middle-Earth and it worked out exceedingly well and provided another layer of development and flexibility for the characters.
Just random thoughts let me know what you think. Otherwise keep up the great work..
-- One of the faithful
WOW this is such a cool discussion. I have just started reading this and as an avid fan of Dune I am impressed.
Thanks, montstar. We've all worked really hard on this project and feel proud of what we've got so far. I for one feel that Frank Herbert's novel(s) can stand side-by-side with any epic on the shelves, from Lord of the Rings to Star Wars. This game ought to support that. Now... about your comments. I'll take them one at a time.
1) I was thinking their should be some mention in any Dune game of how to run it as a David Lynch themed game and how to run it in its more traditional novel style. While I like the acting, plot, and costumes of David’s vision, I much prefer the story of the novels and would run a Dune game according to Frank and later Brian’s visions.
Agreed. I'm actually including rules for sonic weapons (House Atreides' "weirding modules" and certain aesthetic aspects of the classic David Lynch version. I don't agree with all of Brian Herbert's details, though, so for me, the real meat is in the original six Dune books written by Frank Herbert. I'm also relying heavily on Frank Herbert's Dune Encyclopedia and using much of the flavor text from the officially sanctioned (but hastily pulled) Last Unicorn Games version that was done with the Herbert Estate's permission.
2) I don’t quite know that I agree with making certain things “Classes” like the Freman [sic] and Bene Gessuit [sic]. These (just to name a few) are very complex races to me... This was suggested to me by a friend for a homebrewed Lord of the Rings D20 I did since there are so many different “Races” of humans in Middle-Earth and it worked out exceedingly well and provided another layer of development and flexibility for the characters.
I'd be glad to look at those racial templates, but since I don't have access to that material, I'll have to be satisfied with using the good ol' fashioned version. If you have it on-line, please, by all means, send it on! I'd really love to be able to get the "feel" just right and do justice to Frank Herbert's awesome vision.
Thanks again for your input and let me know what you'd like to see in d20 Dune.
Steve-OKeep up the good work.
House Moritani Overlay
Training Modifiers DEX+1 INT+1
CLASS SKILLS Athletics [swim, climb, jump], Language(Bhotani Jib), Knowledge(Grumman), Sleight of Hand, Spot, Listen, Diplomacy, Move Silently, Hide BONUS FEAT (choose one) Poison Resistance, Alertness, Track
I then add a second overlay which suggests actual training e.g. Swordmaster, Bene Gesserit, Mentat to fit the character into the Imperium - and then use lightly tweaked d20 Modern classes. This allows people to have 'class definition' which can be so useful in defining your character early on - without funneling them into cookie cutter style PCs, with the same abilities as classes tend to do. Though with Steve-0's wide range of feats that shouldn't be such an issue in his campaign.
Regional feats. I believe that should help with devloping the differences between those from Gedi Prime, and Selusa Secondus, and Arrakis, and where ever. Just start with one or more regional feats, kinda like FR for D&D, but better 'cause we have Herbert behind us.
Got 'em. Anything else? (That was easy...)
Steve-O...For example you might give Fremen all the ability to walk with out rythm and survive in the deep desert. These are things all Fremen are taught from childhood, but at the same time the majority (except for some of the Naibs and traders) all suffer from Xenophobia from offworlders...
Actually, I've already included these (and other) specific qualities in the Fremen class. Here's a sample from the Fremen class text (both are 1st level features) :
Desert Creature
At 1st level, Fremen have trained themselves to walk in the desert so as not to attract the attention of the dreaded sandworms. The character gains a +4 bonus to all Move Silently checks while in the desert.
Eyes of Ibad
The Fremen living on Arrakis have spent so much time in the spice-rich deserts that their blood stream has become saturated by melange, manifested in the Fremen's blue-within-blue eyes.
This bluing of the iris and sclera helps cut down on glare, granting the Fremen a +2 racial bonus to all Spot checks made while in a desert environment.
The xenophobia you describe (IMHO) is best done through role-playing. There's no doubt about it, I put a LOT of faith in the players and especially the GameMasters who will be running this game. I like to put as much power in the hands of those actually playing the game as possible. :D Call me an optimist, but I figure the less rules the better and let the players and GM work it out in-game.
Big thanks to Wyvern for once again pointing out the obvious. The shield fighting system in d20 Fading Suns looks like it'll work like a charm. Thanks again for getting me back on track! It feels like a big weight has been lifted and I can get back to finishing up the game. Here's your cookie: 
Oh, and an Official Design Contributor credit. Steve-OThanks for the Advice montstsar
I'm just glad I could help out.Wyvern
i find one when looking for the mash theme... will let you lot know what its like when it finishes being p2p'd...i find [a d20 Dune PDF] when looking for the MASH theme...
LOL! That's awesome. That happens to me all the time. I search for stuff on LimeWire and get such mixed results... Ah, the kooky, quirky internet. Steve-OSo... to solve this little dilemma, I opted to do both. One class, called Scientist, but at first level, you choose your path - much like D&D 3.5's new and improved Ranger class. The Engineer path is an expert in repairing and the Inventor is (obviously) the master of invention.
I'll post it up as soon as it gets past the rough stage.
Steve-OThoughts? Questions? Answers?
As far as I can tell the Dune-verse is utterly stagnant technologically. Indeed there are religious procriptions against certain technologies and a particular focus on 'actualising' the potential of the human mind/body.
Nothing new is being developed - except by out-freyn cultures such as Ix (and Richese), and by the Bene Tleilax. I have difficulty seeing 'Tech' as it stands in say SWd20 as a standard class in Dune. Having said that the Intellect Hero from d20 Modern which I use is also a touch ill fitting.
I'm working out the rules for a science-based class (and keeping Suk Doctor for the prestige classes), but I was torn between doing up an Engineer-type or an Inventor-type.
So... to solve this little dilemma, I opted to do both. One class, called Scientist, but at first level, you choose your path - much like D&D 3.5's new and improved Ranger class. The Engineer path is an expert in repairing and the Inventor is (obviously) the master of invention.
I'll post it up as soon as it gets past the rough stage.
Thoughts? Questions? Answers?
That's a *really* good idea, not just for Dune but also as a general scifi class. Is that decision at all connected to the PM I sent you? If it is, and assuming you're looking for any further contributions, I think I have some technologically-oriented feats lying around somewhere...
Artaxerxes, I'd disagree with you about the inappropriateness of the inventor sub-stream. As you yourself said, it would be useful for certain technological subcultures (Ix, Richese, Tleilaxu... not to mention any others GMs might care to create). Also, low-level inventors could be more like medieaval tinkers or modern-day scavengers. Perhaps making new technology would be a "capstone" ability, while previous abilities would be geared towards improvisation or improving or salvaging old gear? With three levels of Masterwork, there's still a lot to work with there.
I am wary of including a 'general' Tech class because my personal vision of the Duneverse doesn't see much place for the tinkerer. Of course the technological out-freyn cultures would need this class, as well as Butlerian Heretics. Heck the Harkonnens resurrect artillery - so there are some avenues - I just don't see it as a basic class.I would be loathe to allow a player access to potential technological solutions - I see the solutions the players should utilise should be philosophical or ultimately the sword - mind/body again. One of the distinguishing features of this sci fi realm is it's lack of technology. Of course a smuggler/fringer (a la star wars) class should have the ability to jury-rig devices - but only as temporary measures. There are also non-guild spaceships that need to be attended to - but a technological arms race would allow the Fremen to perhaps be neutralised. Their only distinction is the brutality of the planet they live on - and it is that - not some scientific advance that allows them to win on Arrakis - merely the perfection of the fighting man.
Of course I am still fantastically intrigued to see what you come up with - but throw me a bone as to where you see such a character's niche in the campaign. My vociferous naysaying springs from visions of cyber limbs and other technology which properly belongs in Cyberpunk.
...I am wary of including a 'general' Tech class because my personal vision of the Duneverse doesn't see much place for the tinkerer. Of course the technological out-freyn cultures would need this class, as well as Butlerian Heretics. Heck the Harkonnens resurrect artillery - so there are some avenues - I just don't see it as a basic class.
Good point, arta. I'm actually in agreement with you -- I also don't think that a scientist/inventor/engineer would make a very good player character. That being said, I'm not the only one who's going to play the game. I want to try to cover as much area as possible, and I don't want to exclude someone because they don't play the characters that I'd play. Besides, I want to be able to invent the Weirding Modules from the David Lynch movie (actually, I've already included rules for them in the Weapons section).
I would be loathe to allow a player access to potential technological solutions - I see the solutions the players should utilise should be philosophical or ultimately the sword - mind/body again.
Also agreed...
One of the distinguishing features of this sci-fi realm is it's lack of technology. ...Of course I am still fantastically intrigued to see what you come up with - but throw me a bone as to where you see such a character's niche in the campaign. My vociferous naysaying springs from visions of cyber limbs and other technology which properly belongs in Cyberpunk.
"Clones for the heretics! Give me gholas or give me death!" I'll let you know how it goes... Again, it's an idea, just that and nothing more. If it doesn't fit, I'll axe it (or make it a prestige class)... I'm just looking for some sort of scholar/academic/science-based class that's not a Mentat or Suk Doctor.
Steve-OThe good news is: It's getting really close!
The question is: Should I release it piece-meal or wait and release it all at once?
I've got a big ol' list of all the folks I'm gonna send this thing to... In PDF form along with a super-nifty 2-page character sheet designed just for Dune by Monte Cook himself! (No... not really).
Steve-OI'm working out the rules for a science-based class (and keeping Suk Doctor for the prestige classes), but I was torn between doing up an Engineer-type or an Inventor-type.
So... to solve this little dilemma, I opted to do both. One class, called Scientist, but at first level, you choose your path - much like D&D 3.5's new and improved Ranger class. The Engineer path is an expert in repairing and the Inventor is (obviously) the master of invention.
I'll post it up as soon as it gets past the rough stage.
Thoughts? Questions? Answers?
I definitely see the need for an engineer class (after all, they do have advanced technology and they need somebody to make and repair it). However, I don't think you need an inventor class. Apart from the question of whether it fits the setting, it seems like it would be tricky to adjudicate the creation of new technology. Anyhow, you don't need classes to accommodate every possible skill and occupation.
If it were up to me, I'd probably just use the Tech Specialist class from Star Wars, or something very like it.
Wyvern
Soda-pop straws are sold, as part-encased a hot tin, I saw it in mad dog I met. Is dog rosy? Tie-dye booths in rocks.
All ewes lessen ill. I see sheep in Syria? He, not I, deep in Syria, has done. No one radio drew old one.
Many moths? I fondle his; no lemons are sold. Loot delis, yob, moths in a deli bundle his tin. Pins to net a ball I won; pins burst input. I loot to get a looter a spot paler. Arm a damsel? Doom a dam. Not a base camera was in a frost, first on knees on top spot. Now a camera was a widened dam.
Ask: Cold, do we dye? No, hot? Push tap, set on to hosepipe. Nuts in a pod liven.
A chasm regrets a motto of a fine veto of wars. Too bad... I all won. A sadist sent cadets - a war reign a hero derides. A bad loser, a seer, tossed a cradle (he begat to cosset) a minaret for Carole, Beryl, Nora. We're not as poor to self.
I risk cold as main is tidal. As not one to delay burden, I don't set it on "hot". A foot made free pie race losses runnier. As draw won pull, eye won nose. Vile hero saw order it was in (even a moron saw it) no, witnessed it: Llama drops - ark riots. Evil P.M. in a sorer opus enacts all laws but worst arose. Grab a nosey llama - nil lesser good, same nicer omen.
In pins? No, it is open. If a top spins, dip in soot.
Madam, as I desire, dictates: Pull aside, damsels, I set a rag not for a state bastion. A test I won e.g. a contest I won.
Kidnap, in part, an idle hero. Megastars, red, rosy, tied no tie. Blast! A hero! We do risk a yeti's opposition!
He too has a wee bagel still up to here held.
Demigods pack no mask, cap nor a bonnet, for at last a case is open? I left a tip - it wets. A dog wets too. Radios to help pay my tip, pull a tip.
Ale, zoo beer, frets yon animal. Can it? New sex arose but, we sots, not to panic (it's ale) did I barrel? Did I lose diadem, rare carrot in a jar of mine? Droop as tops sag - unseen knots.
A cat ate straw as buck risk cud; evil foe, nil a red nag ate? Bah! Plan it ? silage. Model foot in arboreta.
I, dark Satanist, set fire (voodoo) to slat. I design a metal as parrot, I deem it now. One vast sum is no ten in set - amen! Indeed, nine drag a yam, nine drag a tie. Dame nabs flower; can we help man? Woman is worse nob.
Mud level rose, so refill a rut. A nag of iron I made to trot I defied ? I risk leg and its ulnae. Can a pen I felt to bid dollar or recite open a crate, open a cradle, his garret?
Sample hot Edam in a pan. I'm a rotten digger... often garden I plan, I agreed; All agreed? Aye, bore ensign; I'd a veto - I did lose us site. Wool to hem us? No, cotton. Site pen in acacias or petals a last angel bee frets in.
I met a gorilla (simian); a mate got top snug Noel fire-lit role. Manet, Pagnol, both girdle his reed bogs.
Flan I reviled, a vet nods to order it, Bob, and assign it. Totem users go help mates pull as eye meets eye. Son (mine) pots a free pie, yes? No. Left a tip? Order a dish to get. A ring is worn? it is gold. Log no Latin in a monsignor, wet or wise. Many a menu to note carrot.
Cat in a boot loots; As I live, do not tell! A bare *****, as flat on fire, I know loots guns, fires a baton, nets a hero my ale drop made too lax.
If it is to rain, a man is a sign; I wore macs, no melons rot. I use moths if rats relive, sir, or retire.
Vendor pays: I admire vendee, his pots net roe. Nine dames order an opal fan; I'll ask cold log fire vendor to log igloo frost. Under Flat Six exist no devils.
Marxist nods to Lenin. To Lenin I say: "Mama is a deb, besides a bad dosser."
Gen it up to get "ova" for "egg". I recall a tarot code: yell at a dessert side-dish sale. Yes/nos a task cartel put correlate: E.S.P. rocks a man. I am a man, am no cad, I'm aware where it's at!
Fire! Its an ogre-god to help, man, as I go. Do not swap; draw, pull a troll!
It's not a cat I milk - calf, for a fee, sews a button - knit or tie damsel over us. Mined gold lode I fill until red nudes I met in a moor-top bar can. I sit, I fill a diary (trap nine men in ten-part net) oh, sir, I ask, cod nose? No, damp eel.
So, to get a name! I say, Al! I am Al! Last, I felt, to breed, deer begat.
To can I tie tissue (damp) or deliver Omani artist - a man of Islam.
In a den mad dogs lived on minis a signor who lived afore targets in at. As eremites pull, I, we, surf, fantasise, mend a bad eye. No hero met satyr; Tony, as I stressed, won?t, so cosset satyr.
A vet on isles made us sign it, a name. Foe man one sub.
Aside no dell I fret a wallaby; metal ferrets yodel, like so. On a wall I ate rye. Bored? No, was I rapt! One more calf? O.K., calf, one more, bossy! No! Lock cabin, rob yam, sip martini. Megastar was in a risk.
Cat? No, I'm a dog; I'm a sad loyal pet. A design I wore - kilts (a clan); if net drawn, I put it up. Royal spots snag - royal prevents rift.
Composer, good diet, are both super, God; label it a love of art, lustre. Video bored, no wise tale e.g. a mini tale - no sagas seen. Knack: cede no foes a canal.
Pay; as I sign I lie; clear sin it is; e.g. "Amadeus" sign I? Lira for ecu, decimal - sin as liar.
Trad artistes pull a doom, a drawer won't. Is it sold loot? No, I suffered loss. A man is god; Amen! I came nice Tahiti [sic].
It's ale for a ban if for a fast ? is role to help mash turnip? Use zoo? No - grasp order ? use no zoos. Warts on time did sag.
No grade "X" "A" Level? Oh, "A"! I'd a "B" or a "C". So pot? No, we lop. Date? Take no date! Bah! Play L.P.
Miss (a lass, all right?) flew to space in NASA era. Rose no (zero) cadets ate raw. As a wise tart I fined rags red Lenin, we help pay bet ? a risk ? cash to Brian. I put a clam in a pool ? a pool wets.
Mahdi puts a stop to harem ? miss it in one vote, lost in one, veto of none. Post-op, no tonsil; I ate; no tastier, eh? We sleep at noon time so I dare not at one; no time stops as I time tides. A bed: under it, roll; in a mania, panic!
In a pond I did as Eros as Lee felt tenrec. "Ink"? List it under "I." Termites put pen in a way. Democrats wonder, I too. To slay moths a dog did.
I saw elf; elf, far now, is a devilish taboo, rag-naked. I hid a bootleg disc. I, saboteur, toss it in. Oops! No legs! Laminated, a cask, conker in it, negates all if it is simple.
Hot pages are in a mag, nor will I peer, familiar tat, so lewd, native rot. Toner, ewe wore no trace; vagabond ewes do. Oh, Ada! Have pity! A pitiable eel! "Oh wet am I!" - to save, note: bite gill as I do.
Call a matador minor, eh? As I live, don't! Is torero no rigid animal debaser if tipsy? Ale drew esteem in a matador. A bolero, monks I rate play or go dig rocks; a can I step on.
Go! Gas (it evades a bedsit) set a roost on fire. Boss sent a faded eclair to green imp or dog, I?d don a belt to boot it; if Ada hid a boot, panic.
I mock comic in a mask, comedian is a wit if for eventide. Vole no emu loved is not a ferret, so pet or witness a weasel if not. I hired less, am not so bossy, as yet amateur.
To stir evil, Edna can impugn a hotel: bad loos, hot on Elba: I may melt. Tart solicits it rawer, gets it rare. Push crate open; I ram buses, use no trams.
Did I say, not to idiot nor a bare ferret, to trap rat, strap loops rat? Stewpot was on. Hot? I was red! Lessen it! Fine man on pot? No, pen inside by a bad law. So I made rips nine delays.
Some Roman items in a.m. ordered (Is room for a ban?) It is, I voted: I sat pews in aisle. Beryl, no tiro to my burden, made off for a contest, I won kiss. I may raid fine dales. I raid lochs if I to help am.
Forecast for Clare v. Essex: If no rain, a man is ref. Fusspots net foxes.
Senor is a gnome, latinos - bad eyesore. Help misses run to border, Casanova, now, or drab hotel.
Ma has a heron; I sleep, pet's on nose, sir! Rev. I rag loved art live - fine poser. Ultra-plan: I feign, I lie: cedar to disperse - last one? No, last six. Enamel bonnet for a dark car to toss a snail at. In it all, Eve lost; Seth's a hero slain on a trap? Rise, Sir Ogre Tamer.
Upon Siamese box I draw design. I, knight able to help, missed an alp seen in Tangier of fine metal pots. Tin I mined rages - order nine, melt ten. Tone radios; tones are not to concur. Ten-tone radar I bomb... best fire-lit so hostel side meets eerie mini red domicile. A gulf to get is not a rare tale; no time to nod.
Row on, evil yobs, tug, pull. If dogs drowse, fill a rut. An era's drawers draw. Put in mid-field in a band I dig a tub deep. Staff on a remit did refill a minaret.
Sam's a name held in a flat, or, sir, bedsit. I wonder, is it illicit ore? No ties? A bit under? Retarded? Is owt amiss? I'm on pot; not so Cecil, a posh guy a hero met. A red date was not to last so Cecil sat.
Tip? An iota to pay, a dot; sad, I drop item. I'd ask, call, Odin, a Norseman's god: Pay payee we owe radio dosh o.n.o. I to me? No, I to media.
Peril in golf - is ball a fore? K.O.!
Vexed I am re my raw desires. Alto has eye on nose but tone-muser pianist is level-eyed. I lost a tie. Blast! In uni no grades are musts. Avast! Never port! Sea may be rut.
Part on rose? It's a petal. Define metal: Tin is? I (gulp) can!
I am a fine posse man, I pull a ton. Ron, a man I put on, I made suffer of evil emu's sadism. Leo's never a baron - a bad loss but evil. Topple him, Leo's lad. Assign a pen, can I? A pal is note decoding.
Is damp mule tail-less? No, ill; I breed for its tone. Radio speed, to grower, grew. Open a lot? No, stamp it; if for a free peso - not ecu, deign it. Times ago stone rates, e.g. at Scilly, display a wont.
No wish to get a design I, Sir Des, I've let no bus sees X-mas fir. O.K.? Cab tart it up; tie lots ? diamond, log or tinsel; first end errata edit. So "le vin" (A.C.)?, Martini, Pils lager, one tonic.
I pegged a ball up to here when I got a top star role, Beryl. Gun is too big ? won't I menace? Yes? No.
Ill? A cold. A bet icecap's nip. U.S.A. meets E.E.C. inside tacit sale, see? Beg a cotton tie, ma! No trial, so dodo traps exist. Arabs under-admire card label good hood stole.
In rage erupted Etna. Will a rotunda, bare villa, to tyro. Lack car? Non-U! Get a mini! My, my, Ella, more drums per gong; get a frog - nil less. Rod, never ever sneer. Got to?
I disperse last pair of devils (ah!) here today or else order cash to breed emus. Said I, "Are both superlative?" C.I.D. assign it lemon peel still. I wore halo of one bottle from a ref (football) - a tip; so hit last ego slap a mate got.
Late p.m. I saw gnu here (non-a.m.) or an idea got a dog to nod - I made felt to boot.
Fill in a lad? Nay, not all, Edna - lash to buoy. Did you biff one Venus? Not I!Broth, girl! Ladies ordered, "No, with gin," a fine plate, maybe suet; no carton I made rots in it.
Med: a hill, Etna, clears in it. Ali, Emir, to slap in/slam in. All in all I made bad losers sign it, Alibi. Set a lap for a level bat.
A bed, sir, eh? To put cat now? Drat! Such an idyll of a dog's lair! That's it, open it... a cage! Big nit sent rat! Some day (A.D.) send ewe. No, draw a pot now, do! Of wary rat in a six ton tub.
Edna, ask satyr: ?Tel. a.m.?? No, tel. p.m.; Israeli tuner is damp. Use item: ?Anna Regina?. No! Dye main room (?salle?) red!
Nice caps for a sea cadet in U.S.A. Now I, space cadet, am it, sea vessel rep. Pin it on Maria, help Maria fondle her fine hotpot. No! Meet; set up to net, avoid a lesion. Set acid arena: Bruno one, Reg nil. Like it to sign in? Even I am nine-toed! I vote votes.
Oh, can a nose-rut annoy? No, best is Dorset. I know, as liar, to snoop, malign. "I'll order it to get a bedroom door," began a miser I fed.
Am I to peer, fan? Is a door by metal? Ere sun-up, drowse, nod, lose magnet. Food? Buns? I'll ask. Corn? I'll ask. "Corn?" I snack. Cats snack (cold rat). Sum for a bag: nil. First, is remit "traps in net?" Yes, on a par. Coots yell over a dam I made. Bared nudist went a foot, I made roots. I tip a canon: "Row, sir, at same tide; man one: row tug."
Sewer of denim axes a wide tail - a terror recipe to hero made manic. I, to resign? I? Never!
"OFT I FELT ITS SENSUOUSNESS..." title fit for evening is erotic; I named a more hot epic (error retaliated) I was examined for ewe's gut, wore no named item.
A star is worn on a cap, it is too red. Am I too fat? Newts I?d under a bed. Am I mad? Are volleys too crap? A nosey tennis part-timer sits rifling a bar of mustard.
Lock cans, stack cans in rocks, all in rocks, all I snub. Do often games, old ones, word-pun use; relate, my brood, as in a free pot I made fires, I manage brood. Moor debate got tired rolling, I lampoon, so trail saw on kites.
Rod sits, ebony on nature, so Nana chose to veto video. Ten in main evening is O.T.T. i.e. killing; Ere noon, urban eradicates noise, lad, I ovate not. Put esteem on top (to hen, if reheld).
No fair ample hair - am not I nipper-less? Eva estimated ace caps I won as united. A Caesar of space, Cinderella's moor, Niamey Don (a Niger-an name), ties up mad sire, nut! I, Lear, simpleton male, try tasks "A" and "E" but not "XI." Sanitary raw food won top award one Wednesday - a demo.
Start nesting, I beg a cat. I? Nepotist? Ah, trials, God! A folly, Dinah, custard won't act up; other is debatable. Velar: of palate; sibilating is "s."
Resold: a bed, a mill, an ill animal ? snip, also trim. Eilat in Israel can tell I had 'em. Tin I stored (am I not raconteuse?) by a metal pen. If a night, I wondered, rose, I'd all right orbit on sun, even off.
I buoy, did you? Both Sal and Ella, Tony and Alan ("Ill, if too bottle-fed, am I?") do not. God! A toga! Ed in a Roman one, rehung! Was I, M.P. et al., to get a map? Also get salt? I, hospital lab to offer, am, or felt to be, no fool ? a hero.
Will it sleep? No, melting is sad ice. Vital re-push to be raid, I assume. Deer, both sacred roes, Leroy (a doter, eh?) has lived for. I, apt sales rep?s idiot to greens, revere vendors selling or fat egg-nog reps.
Murder O'Malley, my mini mate ? gun on rack. Calory total: liver, a bad nut or all I wanted (?et puree garnie?): lots. "Do, oh do, ogle bald racer," I'm dared, N.U.S. bar at six.
Esparto, dodo's lair to name it, not to cage bees, elasticated, is nice. Esteem, as up in space, cite bad local lions, eye can emit now. G.I. boots in ugly rebel or rat's potato gin (eh?) were hot. Pull a bad egg ? epic, I note, no regal slip in it. Ram can ? (I?ve lost idea!)
Tarred nets, rifles, nitro, gold - no maid stole it. Put it, rat, back or if Sam ("X") sees sub on televised rising, I sedate Goths. I won't. No way.
Alps, idyllic stage set, are not so gas-emitting, I educe. To nose, peer, far off, I tip mats onto lane. Power grew or got deep so I dare not stir. Of deer, billions sell. I ate lump - mad sign, I do cede - tonsil a pain, acne pang is sad also. Elm I help pot, live - tub's sold; a ban or a bar, even so, elms, I'd assume, live for. Effused am I not, up in a manor, not all up in a mess. Open if a main A.C. plug is in it.
Late men I fed late - pasties or not. "Rapture" by a maestro prevents a vast sum erased.
Argon in units, albeit at solid eye level, sits in a (I presume not) tube, son. No eyes: a hot laser, is Ed wary?
Mermaid, ex- evoker of all A.B.s, I flog. Nil I repaid. Emotion! Emotion, oh so do I dare, woe!
Wee yap-yap dog's name's Ron. An idol lacks a dime tip, or did, as today a potato in a pitta slice costs a lot? Tons. A wet adder ate more hay. Ugh! So, pal, ice cost on top? No, miss, I'm a two-sided rat, erred nut, I base it on erotic ill; It is I, red now; it is debris, rot.
Alf, an idle he-man as "master animal lifer" did time, ran off at speed, but a G.I. did nab an idle if dim nit. Upwards rewards are natural life's words, God. Fill up guts, boy, live now or do not emit one later. A rat on site got flu.
Gaelic: I'm odd Erin, I'm Eire, esteemed islet. So hostile rifts ebb. Mob, I.R.A., dare not net R.U.C. - no cotton. Erase not, so I dare not nettle men in red rose garden, I'm in it.
Stop late men if foreign at nine. Esplanades, simple hotel, bath, gin? King is Edward IX (obese); Ma is no pure mater. Go! Rise, sir; part anon.
I also rehash tests... "O" Level Latin, Italian. S.A.S., so, to track radar. Often nobleman exists alone (not sales reps) I do. Trade ceiling, i.e. final part, lures open if evil trade.
Volga River rises on no steppe. Elsinore has a hamlet. Oh, Bard, row on Avon!
A sacred robot nurses simple hero's eye; dabs on it a lemon. Gas, iron, Essex often stops, suffers in a mania. Ron fixes several crofts, acer of maple. Hot, I fish; cold, I arise laden; if diary amiss, I know it set no car off. Foe-damned ruby motor, it only rebels.
Ian I swept aside to visit, in a bar of moorside red, Romanis met in a more mossy ale den. Inspired am I, Oswald. A bay bed is nine "P" on top. No name, niftiness- elder saw it. Oh no! Saw top wet star's pool? Part star, part otter. Refer a baron to idiot, Tony, as I did.
Smart ones use submarine.
Poet, arch-super-artiste, grew artistic. I lost rattle; my amiable, not oh so old, able to hang up, mina, can deliver it, so true. "Ta, matey!", says so Boston (Mass.) elder I hit.
On file S.A.E. was sent, I wrote poster re: fat on side, volume one; loved it, never off it, I was in. Aide mocks a manic; I mock comic, I nap: too bad I had a fit, I too. Bottle ban odd, I go drop mine, ergo trial ceded a fatness, sober if not so, or a test is debased.
A vet is agog; no pets in a cask: corgi dog, royal pet, a risk no more.
Lob a rod at a man I meet. Sewer delays pit fires (a bedlam in a dig) iron ore rots it. No devil is a hero? Nimrod.
At a mall a cod is all I get. I bet on Eva, so Tim ate whole eel bait, I pay tip, Eva had a hood sewed. No B.A. gave car to Nero, we were not to rev it and we lost a trail; I?m a free pill, I wrong a man. I erase gap; to help miss it, I fill a set. A gent in ire knocks a cadet.
Animals' gel on spoon - it is so true to basics - I'd gel; too bad I hide kangaroo baths; I lived as I won raffle, flew as I did go, dash, to my, also too tired now, star comedy: A wan, inept, upset I'm retired, nut; its ilk, nicer. Nettle feels a sore; sad, I did no panic in a pain, am an ill or tired, nude, based item; it is a spot.
Semitone, not a tone, radios emit; no, on tape; elsewhere it's a tone.
Tail is not on; pots open on foot, even on it, so let oven (on, it is) simmer ? a hotpot's a stupid ham stew.
Loop a loop, animal (cat) up in air.
Both sacks I rate by apple hewn in elder's garden if it rates, I was aware - tasted a core.
Zones or areas, Annie, cap, so twelfth girl, lass, alas, simply (alpha beta) done, Kate. Tadpole won top Oscar, Obadiah, "O" Level axed.
Argon gas did emit no straw, so ozone sure drops argon, oozes up in Ruth?s ample hotel or sits afar off in a bar of elastic, is it?
I hate cinema; cinema dogs in a mass. Older effusion to old - lost, is it now? Reward: a mood all upsets it.
Radar trails an Islamic educer of a riling issue, damages it in Israel. Ceiling is, I say, a plan, a case of one deck. Can knees sag as one Latin image elates, I wonder?
Oboe diverts ultra foe, volatile bald ogre... push to berate; I'd do, ogre. So, p.m., Oct. first, never play organ's stops - lay or put it up in ward ten.
Final cast like rowing? I sedate play, old as am I, God! Am I! On tacks I ran; I saw rats. A Gemini tramp is May born.
I back colony?s sober omen of lack of lace. Rome, not Paris, a wonder.
Obey retail law; a noose killed oyster. Reflate my ball, a water-filled one. Disabuse no name of emanating issue.
Damsels, I note, vary tastes so cost now desserts. I say no! Try taste more honeyed. A bad nemesis at naff ruse will upset. I, mere Satanist, e.g. rater of a devil. (Oh wrong is a sin!) I'm no devil's god, damned.
Animals, if on a mat, sit. Rain, a more vile drop, made us site it in a cottage. Breed deer - bottle fits a llama.
I lay, as I emanate, go to sleep, mad ones on docks - air is hot. Entrap, net, nine men in party raid - all if it is in a crab-pot room, an itemised, under-lit, nullified old log den; I'm sure voles made it rot in knot.
Tubas we see far off lack limit. A cat on still or tall upward paws to no dog is an ample hot-dog, ergo nastier if tastier, eh? We, raw amid a conman, a mama in a mask, corpse et al., err.
Octuple tracks at a son?s eyelash side distressed a tall eye doctor, a tall ace, rigger of a vote: got put in egress; odd, abased, is ebbed, as I am, Amy, asinine lot! Nine lots! Don't six rams live? Don't six exist?
Alfred, nuts or fool gigolo, trod never if gold locks all in a flap on a red rose; made nine or ten stops.
I heed never, I'm Daisy, a prod never, I terrorise viler starfish. To me suitors, no lemons, came rowing. Is a sin a mania? Rot!
Sit! I fix a looted amp or delay more, hasten not. A baser if snug stool, wonkier, if not - Alf says - super, a ballet to no devil, is a stool too. Ban it, actor, race to no tune.
May names I wrote wrong (Is no man in it, a long old log?) sit in row, sign irate Goths; I dare drop it. At felon's eye I peer, fast open ? I'm nosey, esteem eyes. All upset, ample hogs resume totting. Is sad nabob tired? Roots don't evade liver in Alf's gob.
Deers I held right; oblong, apt enamel or tile rifle on gun spot to get a man - aim is all. I rogate, minister. Feeble gnats, alas late, prosaic, a canine pet is not to consume hot.
Loo, wet, issues old idiot; evading, I sneer, obey a deer, gall a deer, gain alpine dragnet for egg I'd net to ram in a pan I made to help master. Rags I held, arcane poet, arcane poetic error, all odd; I bottle fine panacean lust. I'd nag elks I ride if editor toted a minor. I fog a natural life.
Roses, or level dumb ones - rows in a mown, ample, hewn acre. Wolfsbane made it a garden in May, a garden indeed.
Nine mates, nine tons I must save now on time - editor raps a late man. G.I.s edit also, too. Do over if tests in a task radiate. Rob ran; I, too, fled.
"Omega" - list in alphabet.
A gander, a line of live ducks, irk cubs. A wart, set at a cast on knee, snug as spots.
A poor denim for a janitor, racer, armed aide, solid idler ? rabid; I?d elastic in a pot, tons to sew.
Tubes or axes went in a clam, in an oyster. Free booze? Lap it all up. Pity, my apple hot, so I'd a root stew. God, a stew! Tip it at feline! Posies, a cat?s altar often, no baron packs. A monk caps dog ? I meddle here ? hot? Pull its leg! A bee was a hoot, eh?
No, it is opposite. Yaks I rode wore hats, albeit on deity?s orders. Rats age more held in a trap, nip and I know it ? set no cage now.
It's eta; no, it's a beta... Tsar of Tonga rates isles. Mad Ed is all upset at cider, is Ed? Is a madam too? Snip? I'd snip, spot a fine position, snip nine more cinemas.
Do ogres sell in a mall? Yes, on a barge so rats row tubs.
Wall last canes up or Eros, an imp, lives to irk, rasp or dam all tides sent. I won't - I was no Roman - even I saw tired row ? a sore. He lives on. No!? we yell.
Up, now! Wards are in nurses? sole care. I, peer, fed, am too fat? Oh, not I, test no dined ruby ale; dote not on salad it's in - I am sad.
Locks I rifle so troops atone re war. Only rebel or a crofter animates so cottage beheld arcades, so trees are sold, abased. I redo, rehang, I err... a wasted act; nests I'd (as an owl) laid. A boot's raw foot, even if a foot to master, germs (ah!) can evil do.
Pan is tune-pipe - so hot notes, paths up to honeydew.
Odd locks, a maddened (I was aware) macaw on top, spot no seen knots, rifts or fan, I saw. Are maces a baton, madam? Oodles, madam? Rare laptops are too late - got too lit up.
Nits rub ? snip now, I?ll abate, not snip, nits I held.
Nubile Danish tomboys I led to old loser as no melons I held; no fish to my name. Nod lower, do I dare? No, one nods a hairy snipe. (Edit: one hairy snipe, eh?) See silliness, else we?ll ask cornish to obey deity?s or god?s item. I, God, damn it! I was in it! To Hades, acne trap, sad loser! As warts pop, a dosser I ? we ? vile rat, sack! Same row, oh woe! Macaroni, rats, as a hoot, tie. I vomit on rats.
Atleast I think it was a pallendrome.
So back on topic with Dune, so we don't get any negative review from the WizOs
I propose we start comming up with our various game storyline's and sharing them so that other Game Masters like myself, who are currently stuck for new idea's have some fresh ideas.
I'd go first but sadly my story book is in a car...headed for Trent University...its so hard to let them go...they just grow up way too fast...
Star? Not I! Movie? It too has a star in or a cameo who wore mask - cast are livewires.
[snip]
Good grief! My first thought when I saw this was, "I didn't know it was possible to spam a message board." I mean, it really looks like one of those random strings of words that spambots create to trick filters, you know what I mean?Wyvern
A thought: Mabey Steve-O has taken the water of life and is just prophesizing to us his loyal followers.
On subjsect I would like to see a release of the entire work. Sometimes when you get things in pieces it makes less sense of where an idea or concept is going since you can't see how that idea or concept is effected or effects later ideas and/or concepts.
If fish don't have eyelids do they miss blinking?
"The phrase “little death” stuck with me after my therapist used it, so to enlighten myself I did some exhaustive (Google) research.
The first hit was about sleep — in Islam, sleep is referred to as “the little death,” because we lose ourselves as we slumber. My experience does not strike me as an unconscious one ... it’s more like an experience of becoming painfully conscious of myself. The next hit was the French phrase for orgasm, “la petit mort.” The French feel that, because during orgasm you are emptied of your seed, it is reminiscent of emptying your ego at death. But this phrase only works for men. For women, orgasm feels very much linked to being full of life, creativity, joy...definitely not emptying or death. Finally, I came across the Tibetans. Leave it to a group of folks who have been meditating for thousands of years; they’ll spell things out clearly.
Beloved Buddhist monk and teacher Sogyal Rinpoche, in his adapted version of the Tibetan Book of the Dead (The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, 1992, HarperSanFrancisco), writes that little deaths happen every day ... in the form of both simple and profound changes. “Life is nothing but a continuing dance of birth and death, a dance of change.” Reflecting on these changes can give you a sense of renunciation, which seems to be a euphemism for the flesh-stretching, no-fish-catching, bowl-shattering experience. Sogyal Rinpoche points out that the Tibetan phrase for renunciation, “ngé jung,” means “to definitely or actually emerge or be born.”
So the next time someone asks what’s going on with me, I think I have discovered a more accurate reply: “I’m going through a little death. And, actually, I’m being born.”
Something to think about - I am sure Herbert was aware of the quadruple meaning.
So... to solve this little dilemma, I opted to do both. One class, called Scientist, but at first level, you choose your path - much like D&D 3.5's new and improved Ranger class. The Engineer path is an expert in repairing and the Inventor is (obviously) the master of invention.
IMO, that really doesn't jive with the Dune universe. Technicians and doctors, yes. Innovators and researchers, no.
I think an "Expert"-style class is a closer fit. The technically oriented Ixians and Tilexau are probably best handled as PrCs branching off from that class.
I'll post it up as soon as it gets past the rough stage.
Also, chalk me up for being someone who would love to see these playtest files. If they aren't posted to the web, here is my address: reverendkeith AT hotmail dot com or keithalanjohnson AT earthlink dot net
Well it comes as no suprise that working on a project with the vast scope as Dune... that Steve-O seems to have finaly had a melt-down. We can only pray that some poor unexpecting person comes by and reboots him soon.
Yes, it would certainly seem that way... the Jedi Steve-O had been pushing pretty hard the last few weeks and wouldn't you know it, somebody slipped a little melange into his Mountain Dew and he just started proselytizing in tongues. Turns out that was one long palindrome, too. (Try reading it backwards!)
But now he's back and healthy and refreshed and (relatively) sane - turns out all it took was one glorious week in Maui falling in love with the islands [and a blonde SCUBA instructor] and he's all better again. Who knew?
I'm back on task (and on subject) and will begin regular updates and posting as of now.
S.IMO, that really doesn't jive with the Dune universe. Technicians and doctors, yes. Innovators and researchers, no.
And THAT is why I love America. Different opinions, different view points - they all get heard. Whether they all get included, however, is another matter. But I appreciate your input and will be taking a closer look at the whole Scientist class-thing now that I'm back and have a better perspective.
I think an "Expert"-style class is a closer fit. The technically-oriented Ixians and Tlielaxu are probably best handled as PrCs branching off from that class.
I'm actually looking closer at the Star Wars Roleplaying Game's Tech Specialist class to fulfill those requirements.
Thanks for your interest, Rev. Keith. I'll be letting everyone know where they can get a gander at the full version of d20 Dune as soon as it's complete.
Jedi Steve-OFear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the Inner Eye to see fear's path.
Where it has been, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
I must not fear."
- Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
I have been thinking about the litany... my understanding of the term "little death" had always been fixed as "the death of thought," i.e. panic - even though i knew the Buddhist sense of the "little death." I had just never connected the alternate meanings...
Some thoughts on the "little death"... This is an awesome topic and needs to be explored, as it happens though, I am on my way out the door so it will have to wait for another night when I'm feeling more existential. I'll have to settle for just leaving a quote:
"The Self cannot be pierced by weapons or burned by fire; water cannot wet it, nor can the wind dry it. It is everlasting and infinite, standing on the motionless foundations of eternity." -- Bhagavad Gita 2:23,24.
Jedi Steve-OSo back on topic with Dune, so we don't get any negative review from the WizOs... I propose we start coming up with our various game storyline's and sharing them so that other Game Masters like myself, who are currently stuck for new idea's have some fresh ideas...
Okay. Storylines, plots and game ideas. Here we go...
I'm basing my first game about 30 years before the Atreides gain control of Arrakis. The Harkonnen are in full power, and they are struggling to produce the spice that the Emperor and the Spacing Guild demand. The PCs are a Fremen cherem from different tribes that have joined in their hatred of their Harkonnen rulers, determined to drive the hated Harkonnens from their sacred home.
The second game I have in mind is not related to (but could be set in the same time period as) either the first game or the Atreides/Harkonnen vendetta, but is set around the political machinations of an entirely separate Great House of the Landsraad -- House Wallach. The story revolves around the life and education of the na-baron, Christhaad von Wallach. The rest of the party is composed of his Bene Gesserit teacher, his Swordmaster bodyguard and a Mentat advisor.
Steve-OBrilliant resource for the sources of DUNE. Also has a link for a OCR'ed version of the Dune Encyclopaedia (DE) - so text extraction works - at the very end of the text. Handy for anyone needing large sections of text from the DE to put in a rule book for instance.
Also links to O'Reilly's early book on Herbert
...resource for DUNE... OCR'ed version of the Dune Encyclopaedia (DE) - so text extraction works... Handy for anyone needing large sections of text from the DE to put in a rule book for instance.
:lightbulb Gee, I think I might know someone who could use that...
This is a great resource, arta, thanks for posting it up. Steve-OAdaptive [Cost 8, Intelligence 13+]: Your character is extremely good at adapting his mind to technological concepts both more and less advanced than his own. This allows him to treat all unfamiliar technology as if it were one TL closer to his own. Additionally, skill points equal to your character’s Intelligence bonus may be paid into a pool that is expended between levels to acquire tech familiarity within a reasonably short time frame (days or weeks, as appropriate to the circumstances).
Eidetic Memory [Cost 5, Intelligence 15+]: The benefits of having an Eidetic Memory can be broken down into two categories. The first, continual effect is a +8 bonus to Intelligence checks made to remember a specific piece of information. The second effect is activated when a player states that he is deliberately committing something to memory. In this case, recalling the data is automatically successful, with no check required.
Epiphany [Cost 4, Wisdom 17+, Knowledge (Any) 6+ ranks]: The Epiphany talent allows a knowledgeable character to make sublime statements that impart zen-like wisdom to listeners. A character can make a number of Epiphanies equal to his Wisdom modifier every week, each as a full round action. These Epiphanies take the form of a single sentence or short utterance and require all listeners to make a DC 15 Intelligence checks in order to comprehend the wisdom imparted by the character. Those who fail the check receive no benefit, but those who succeed share whatever bonus the character’s high Knowledge skill ranks would have conferred. For example, if your character possessed 6 ranks in Knowledge (Underworld) and spoke an epiphany on the concept of honor among thieves, those who successfully understood it would gain a +2 synergy bonus to checks related to criminal situations. The bonus lasts for a single encounter. Epiphany cannot provide a bonus if none would exist normally.
Impaired Language Communication [Cost 3, Empathy]: Your character has studied various forms of non-verbal communication, such as sign and body language. This allows him to ignore interaction skill penalties because he is unable to speak with his target. The target must be able to see the character, and the character may be required to make an Intelligence check if the idea being conveyed is particularly complex. This talent does not apply to the use of other talents, only skills.
Juryrig [Cost 4, Intelligence 13+, Mechanics 6+ ranks]: By using improvised materials and trying for a quick fix rather than a lasting repair, characters with this talent can reduce the time required to make a Mechanics check by one step (from extensive to moderate, moderate to minor, ect) with minor repairs generally requiring D10 rounds. The DC of the check remains unchanged. The downside, however, is that the repair will last a variable amount of time. Sometimes this is until the end of the encounter, other times for several days. Occasionally, the jury-rigged repairs will last forever. The exact duration of a particular juryrigged repair is determined by your GM, using a D4 and assigning an appropriate result to each number (based on his assessment of the type of repair and circumstantial modifiers).
Knock-off [Cost 5, Intelligence 13+, Field Operative]: If the character has access to parts at least somewhat similar to those you would need to make an item (sheet metal for an assault rifle, electronic and optical parts for a laser, etc.), he can create a reasonable duplicate of the desired piece of equipment. This requires a successful Engineering check with a DC equal to the item’s normal creation DC. The process takes one time period per point of DC, with the exact time determined by the size and complexity of the item (minutes, hours, days or weeks, as determined by your GM). The facsimile version weighs twice as much, has half hit points and hardness, and imposes a -2 penalty to all dice rolls made with it or that it makes. It’s component items cannot be easily reconstituted, and must be repaired as though they were moderately damaged in order to restore them to their proper use.
Mechanical Intuition [Cost 10, Intelligence 13+]: Your character is extremely adept at using and repairing mechanical and electronic devices. Add a +2 bonus to all Engineering and Mechanics, and increase threat ranges by one point (generally to 19-20).
Living Anatomy [Cost 4, Medical Science Ranks 6+, Xeno Medicine]: By purchasing Living Anatomy, a character puts his knowledge of physiology to work in combat, allowing him to strike at his opponent’s most vulnerable spots. All of his weapon critical multipliers are increased by 1 against opponents with discernable anatomies (this includes those wearing armor which closely resembles their bodies).
Multitask [Cost 2, Endurance 13+, Intelligence 13+]: While performing long-term projects such as scientific research or constructing items, the character may work on two separate projects at once without losing focus on either. This allows the character to work two eight-hour shifts a day almost indefinitely, but only if each shift is spent on a different project. While Multitasking, a character cannot perform overtime on either project, as his creative resources are being used to the fullest.
Obscure Knowledge [Cost 10, +5 ranks in three different Knowledge skills]: A character who has purchased the Obscure Knowledge trait has a combination of memory, insight and education that allowhim to know a little bit about everything. He immediately gains a +3 bonus to any two Knowledge skills of his choice, and may use any knowledge skill untrained.
Savant [Cost 20, Intelligence 17+]: Savant characters add +1 to their critical ranges for all skills based on the Intelligence attribute.
Voice of Reason [Cost 10, Charisma 15+, Empathy]: As a full-round action, a character with the Voice of Reason talent can speak reasonably and compassionately to another character who is under the influence of a mind-affecting substance, treatment or device. The character makes a Diplomacy check against the DC of the Resolve save. If successful, it breaks the mind-controlling effect. The target must be able to hear you. Using this talent requires concentration.
Xeno Medicine [Cost 4, Intelligence 13+]: The Xeno Medicine talent grants characters improved ability to operate on alien species without penalty. Similar races now impose a -2 penalty on Medical Science skill checks, strange races a -4 penalty and incomprehensible races -8. Error ranges are similarly reduced.
Widget [Cost 5, Intelligence 15+, Knock-off, Mechanical Intuition]: If a character with the Widget talent has the necessary parts to make an item, he can spend one full round per point of creation DC to make a short-duration version of it. The item must be no larger than the character, and the GM is free to disallow the jury-rigging of certain items. The creation check DC for the item is raised by five points, and must be completed as normal. If successful, the item will work normally for D6 rounds plus one per point by which the creation DC was exceeded. At the end of this time, the item stops working and must be repaired before it will resume functioning.
?: Know skill check is flawed, can start again earlier, half materials gone. Basically a failsafe for long-term and expensive craft projects.
Here's some possible talents/class features for the tech-oriented class. I apologize for their non-D20 and somewhat unedited format, but it's a busy time for me right now, so I didn't have time to convert anything.
No worries, Interpol, we all have real lives to tend to, we appreciate the input. There was a lot to read, so I'll respond to each one in turn...
Adaptive: Your character is extremely good at adapting his mind to technological concepts both more and less advanced than his own. This allows him to treat all unfamiliar technology as if it were one TL closer to his own. Additionally, skill points equal to your character’s Intelligence bonus may be paid into a pool that is expended between levels to acquire tech familiarity within a reasonably short time frame (days or weeks, as appropriate to the circumstances).
This one I like. It's not overly powerful, could be useful as a low-level class feature. Good stuff. Next...
Eidetic Memory: The benefits of having an Eidetic Memory can be broken down into two categories. The first, continual effect is a +8 bonus to Intelligence checks made to remember a specific piece of information. The second effect is activated when a player states that he is deliberately committing something to memory. In this case, recalling the data is automatically successful, with no check required.
There's actually a similar ability (or abilities) in both the Mentat and Bene Gesserit classes, I'll try to keep the same system for this feature if I include it in the Scientist class.
Epiphany: The Epiphany talent allows a knowledgeable character to make sublime statements that impart zen-like wisdom to listeners. A character can make a number of Epiphanies equal to his Wisdom modifier every week, each as a full round action.
These Epiphanies take the form of a single sentence or short utterance and require all listeners to make a DC 15 Intelligence checks in order to comprehend the wisdom imparted by the character. Those who fail the check receive no benefit, but those who succeed share whatever bonus the character’s high Knowledge skill ranks would have conferred.
For example, if your character possessed 6 ranks in Knowledge (Underworld) and spoke an epiphany on the concept of honor among thieves, those who successfully understood it would gain a +2 synergy bonus to checks related to criminal situations. The bonus lasts for a single encounter. Epiphany cannot provide a bonus if none would exist normally.
Not really sure about the usefullness of this power in an on-going campaign, but I'll keep it in reserve for consideration.
Impaired Language Communication: Your character has studied various forms of non-verbal communication, such as sign and body language. This allows him to ignore interaction skill penalties because he is unable to speak with his target. The target must be able to see the character, and the character may be required to make an Intelligence check if the idea being conveyed is particularly complex. This talent does not apply to the use of other talents, only skills.
Not sure how appropriate this is to a science- or technology-based class, as the techno-geeks are usually the last people to read body language and are pretty far down on the "subtle communication" checklist. (Sorry, just a little stereotype.)
Juryrig: By using improvised materials and trying for a quick fix rather than a lasting repair, characters with this talent can reduce the time required to make a Mechanics check by one step (from extensive to moderate, moderate to minor, ect) with minor repairs generally requiring 1d10 rounds. The DC of the check remains unchanged. The downside, however, is that the repair will last a variable amount of time. Sometimes this is until the end of the encounter, other times for several days. Occasionally, the jury-rigged repairs will last forever. The exact duration of a particular juryrigged repair is determined by your GM, using a d4 and assigning an appropriate result to each number (based on his assessment of the type of repair and circumstantial modifiers).
Great suggestion, and I've already included a similar class feature, adapting it from the Iron Lords of Jupiter d20 Mini-Game.
Knock-off: If the character has access to parts at least somewhat similar to those you would need to make an item (sheet metal for an assault rifle, electronic and optical parts for a laser, etc.), he can create a reasonable duplicate of the desired piece of equipment. This requires a successful Engineering check with a DC equal to the item’s normal creation DC. The process takes one time period per point of DC, with the exact time determined by the size and complexity of the item (minutes, hours, days or weeks, as determined by your GM). The facsimile version weighs twice as much, has half hit points and hardness, and imposes a -2 penalty to all dice rolls made with it or that it makes. It’s component items cannot be easily reconstituted, and must be repaired as though they were moderately damaged in order to restore them to their proper use.
This one is actually a great concept. Sort of the opposite of Masterwork items...
Mechanical Intuition: Your character is extremely adept at using and repairing mechanical and electronic devices. Add a +2 bonus to all Engineering and Mechanics, and increase threat ranges by one point (generally to 19-20).
Gotta be careful with this one, as the Butlerian Jihad is very specific about man/machine interfacing.
Living Anatomy: By purchasing Living Anatomy, a character puts his knowledge of physiology to work in combat, allowing him to strike at his opponent’s most vulnerable spots. All of his weapon critical multipliers are increased by 1 against opponents with discernable anatomies (this includes those wearing armor which closely resembles their bodies).
The Bene Gesserit have a similar power, called Bindu Strike. Good concept.
Multitask: While performing long-term projects such as scientific research or constructing items, the character may work on two separate projects at once without losing focus on either. This allows the character to work two eight-hour shifts a day almost indefinitely, but only if each shift is spent on a different project. While Multitasking, a character cannot perform overtime on either project, as his creative resources are being used to the fullest.
Great concept, I'll have to see if I can work this one in to the Scientist class.
Obscure Knowledge: A character who has purchased the Obscure Knowledge trait has a combination of memory, insight and education that allow him to know a little bit about everything. He immediately gains a +3 bonus to any two Knowledge skills of his choice, and may use any knowledge skill untrained.
This one's mostly covered by using a straight Intelligence check to recall facts. Not sure how accurate the name is, though. I like the power, but will probably call it something like Information Sponge or Data Collector.
Savant: Savant characters add +1 to their critical ranges for all skills based on the Intelligence attribute.
d20 Modern has a talent like this for its Smart Hero class, doesn't it?
Voice of Reason: As a full-round action, a character with the Voice of Reason talent can speak reasonably and compassionately to another character who is under the influence of a mind-affecting substance, treatment or device. The character makes a Diplomacy check against the DC of the Resolve save. If successful, it breaks the mind-controlling effect. The target must be able to hear you. Using this talent requires concentration.
This might be a decent counter to someone under the influence of the Bene Gesserit's Voice power. Interesting... To be investigated.
Xeno Medicine: The Xeno Medicine talent grants characters improved ability to operate on alien species without penalty. Similar races now impose a -2 penalty on Medical Science skill checks, strange races a -4 penalty and incomprehensible races -8. Error ranges are similarly reduced.
I'm not really using races other than human for this game. Yes, I know the books alluded to the fact their are other races in the Known Universe, and I'm well aware of the Tleilaxu (and Guild Navigators) but I'm pretty much using the d20 Modern "Everybody's Human" rule.
Widget: If a character with the Widget talent has the necessary parts to make an item, he can spend one full round per point of creation DC to make a short-duration version of it. The item must be no larger than the character, and the GM is free to disallow the jury-rigging of certain items. The creation check DC for the item is raised by five points, and must be completed as normal. If successful, the item will work normally for 1d6 rounds plus one per point by which the creation DC was exceeded. At the end of this time, the item stops working and must be repaired before it will resume functioning.
This one, again, is very interesting. Obviously branching off of the Jury-Rig and Knock-Off trees, this could make for some interesting gaming situations. I'll definitely see if I can fit this in to the Scientists' class features.
???: Know skill check is flawed, can start again earlier, half materials gone. Basically a failsafe for long-term and expensive craft projects.
Actually, this is a good idea, and Spycraft covered it with a feat called False Start, I believe.
Wow. Again, thanks for all the input and I'll try to include as much of this info as I can. Any word on the source of these? If they're original works, am I welcome to use them for the game?
Jedi Steve-O
Does anyone know where I can get my hands on the text/rules for the Adrenal Basics, Metabolic Basics, Sensory Basics, etc. psionic feats from Spycraft's Shadowforce Archer books? I've tried to find the book on the shelves of my friendly neighborhood gaming store, but apparently it's been discontinued. 
They look like they'd be just the thing to add to the Bene Gesserit class, or at least to be included as possible bonus feats. If anyone can provide me with a link to the text, I'll be your best friend...
Jedi Steve-OAs for their origins, Widget, Adaptive and Voice of Reason are all orginal. Knock-off and multitask were vaguely inspired from somewhere that I can't remember, but the mechanics are original. The ones with obvious similarities to existing talents/feats were pretty much directly inspired, but it looks like they're already covered anyway.
Keep up the good work and I'm glad I could do my part.
...I propose we start coming up with our various game storylines and sharing them so that other Game Masters like myself, who are currently stuck for new idea's have some fresh ideas.
Okay gang, I put up some concepts of storylines -- now it's your turn... What sort of game are you interested in running? What era? Who are the heroes of your game? A group of Bene Gesserit acolytes? A young Noble? A cherem of Fremen warriors? A team of mercenary Swordmasters? What Houses will you be using? Atreides? Harkonnen? Will you make up your own?
MENTAL NOTE: Include a template for Great (and Minor) Noble House creation.
Steve-O Steve-OMechanical Intuition [Cost 10, Intelligence 13+]: Your character is extremely adept at using and repairing mechanical and electronic devices. Add a +2 bonus to all Engineering and Mechanics, and increase threat ranges by one point (generally to 19-20).
Living Anatomy [Cost 4, Medical Science Ranks 6+, Xeno Medicine]: By purchasing Living Anatomy, a character puts his knowledge of physiology to work in combat, allowing him to strike at his opponent’s most vulnerable spots. All of his weapon critical multipliers are increased by 1 against opponents with discernable anatomies (this includes those wearing armor which closely resembles their bodies).
Obscure Knowledge [Cost 10, +5 ranks in three different Knowledge skills]: A character who has purchased the Obscure Knowledge trait has a combination of memory, insight and education that allowhim to know a little bit about everything. He immediately gains a +3 bonus to any two Knowledge skills of his choice, and may use any knowledge skill untrained.
Savant [Cost 20, Intelligence 17+]: Savant characters add +1 to their critical ranges for all skills based on the Intelligence attribute.
What's this about critical ranges for skill checks? There's no such thing in standard d20 rules. And where does this "Cost" rating come from?
For Obscure Knowledge, have you considered something like bardic knowledge? It's too powerful for a feat, but would be appropriate as a class feature for a scholar.
The Living Anatomy ability is way too powerful as written if it's meant to be purchased as a feat. Remember, Improved Critical, which is probably equivalent in power, is limited to a single type of weapon. If you limited Living Anatomy to a single type of creature (i.e. humanoid, animal... can't think what other creature types would exist in Dune), it might be balanced. I'm not sure what the purpose of that line about armor is for. "Discernable anatomy" in the context of the d20 rules doesn't mean "Can you see his muscle tone?" but "Does he have arms and legs and a head?" Wearing full plate in D&D doesn't protect you from critical hits. Maybe powered armor would, but in that case I don't think it would matter what shape it was.
Wyvern
What's this about critical ranges for skill checks? There's no such thing in standard d20 rules. And where does this "Cost" rating come from?
Hey Wyvern, these abilities (talents/class features) were not originally for the d20 System -- just like it says at the top of Interpol99's post:
Here's some possible talents/class features for the tech-oriented class. I apologize for their non-D20 and somewhat unedited format, but ...I didn't have time to convert anything.
Deep breaths everyone... deep breaths.
Steve-OHey Wyvern, these abilities (talents/class features) were not originally for the d20 System -- just like it says at the top of Interpol99's post: Deep breaths everyone... deep breaths.
What, did I give the impression of being upset? I wasn't. I was quite aware of his disclaimer that these rules were not originally from the d20 -- that's why I wanted to know where they did come from. Secondly, despite the disclaimer and the Cost listings, for the most part they did conform to d20 rules, so I was just pointing out that a few of them wouldn't work as written because they depended on concepts that don't exist in d20.
Wyvern
It's all been an elaborate hoax!
hello im new to the board but im a big fan of dune and me and a friend have been just recently started to work ona dune d20 and so i came online looking for resources and found this borad which i might add is quite impressive i really like some the work you people have been pumping out i cant wait to see the finshed work and will be keeping in touch with the board possibly posting some of my own ideas
Not only was that an impressively long run-on sentence, but also entirely devoid of punctuation!
Awesome! New people are always welcome [to lurk or post] and we hope you guys will enjoy the fruits of our labor (all we ask is credit where credit is due if you're using our stuff). Jedi Steve-OI'd like to include (at least rules for) the Weirding Modules from David Lynch's DUNE movie, but I know they're not everyone's cup of tea. They'll be optional -- play with 'em if you like, but don't if you don't.
Any other details?
Jedi Steve-OI know Westwood took a few liberties with the Dune backstory, but it wouldn't be a total loss to adapt some of their equipment ideas, at the very least.
(shamefully) ... stuff from the videogames?
I know Westwood took a few liberties with the Dune backstory, but it wouldn't be a total loss to adapt some of their equipment ideas, at the very least.
Great. Like what? I don't have the videogames (except for DUNE 2000 for PS2, I think) so what are we talking about here, specifically. I'd be willing to take a look at them, at the very least.
What else guys? Since we don't have anyone to answer to (no corporations, at least) let's make this OUR game.
Jedi Steve-O- Wurm
Hi all! Just want to say I'm a HUGE fan of the Dune series, and this is awesome work you guys are doing. I know in Dragon... they had the stats for stuff like spice, fremen, and I think sandworms... I thought that was really interesting, so I came here to look at what everyone thought, and lo and behold, someone had already started a D20 rulesbook for it! Keep up the good work guys! I'd like to help out if possible.
- Wurm
Thanks for posting and on behalf of the thread, we're looking forward to your input. Hope to see some good work and feel free to use our stuff - as long as we get credit where credit is due.
Jedi Steve-OGreat. Like what? I don't have the videogames (except for DUNE 2000 for PS2, I think) so what are we talking about here, specifically. I'd be willing to take a look at them, at the very least.
What else guys? Since we don't have anyone to answer to (no corporations, at least) let's make this OUR game.
Okey dokey, here are some ideas... not sure how well they mesh with the Dune backstory, so if anyone's willing to flesh them out or critique them, that'd be helpful.
Shield Upgrades: Within the basic shield system, two possible improvements came to mind. One would be a shield that flared up optically every time it was struck, possibly dazzling/blinding opponents in melee combat (unless they avert their eyes and accept the resulting penalties). A second idea would be a self-regulating shield for long-term use. Basically, a very small device would be added to monitor oxygen levels within the shielded area, relaxing the vector tolerance to keep air flowing as needed. This would allow nobles to give long-winded speeches without sacrificing protection and paranoid characters to "sleep with their armor on".
Grenade Mace: This is a good idea only if shields work both ways, a fact of which I am not certain. Basically, if shields *will* deflect stuff coming from the inside as well as the outside, you could put an explosive warhead on the end of a stick and use it like a mace. Once you'd penetrated your opponent's shield, you set it off and the resulting explosioni is nicely contained within his shield. Drowning in armor, if you will.
Finally, what would be the effects of sonic weapons against shields? If shields are based on tractor/repulsor technology, then theoretically they shouldn't be able to do more then "muffle" sonic damage. Certain sonic attacks (the kind that induce nausea and disorientation) might not be blocked at all, making sonic warfare a good duelling trick.
Oh yeah, if D20 Dune is going to have a "monster manual", I think we should include the Contaminator from the Westwood videogame. Its basically a tlielaxu-created bio-soldier that can infect those it kills and transform them into more contaminators. It *really* reminds me of Chryssalids from the original X-Com, and anyone who's played that game will tell you how scary/annoying those things were.
as for story lines, check this out:
Kanily between two minor houses(i dont know the houses so ill just call them random house A and random house B)
as minor houses they dont get the full rights given to major houses correct? so during the war of assassins atomics Accendtly get used in a place that was SUPPOSSED to be devoid of people(in keeping with the rules layed down for atomics) unfourtunately this happened to be on a planet owned by another house who sided with one house or another, but there is no evidence that either house, A or B, was responible (hahaha, now we get to the plot twist) during this time the PC's must figure out what is going on why the atomics were used and who used them ( noone the atomics were fake and there were no casualties it was a diversionary tactic to get pressure off of one of the waring houses to let them have a respite and recoup their losses) during all of this a fourth minor house gains a bit for a small part of Arrakis near the south polar region and that upsets the fremen, however the house has no interest in keeping its claim on the spice field that the bid contains as it would draw too much attention from the greater houses and currently that would be bad as the great houses dont like competition for spice. so the PC's now have a varity of tasks, the can investigate the atomics, join in the war (the war of assassins fell through and it broke out in to open war) be part of an evacuation force leaving arrakis and setting up the south polar base for whichever house buys it, or fremen wroking against the house to get them to leave the south polar region...
man i need somewhere to put this creative energy.....some where my girl friend would see it......
shields seem to protect against impact so i would assume that concussive damage would be stopped by one, sonic(being grouped with concussive damage in the d20 system constantly, so i think most rule makers assume them to be the same) would be stopped or at least reduced, the shield is a tangable force after all. <10 geek points to me>
Just a disclaimer: 1. The "weirding modules" are not in any of the Dune books. David Lynch created them for his movie. 2. The sonic/concussive weapons used by House Atreides are a very specific campaign device, used on Arrakis because of the absence of shields (they drive the worms into a killing frenzy).
That being said... would the shield protect against a weirding module? Dunno. Good question. I'll have to do a little research.
as for story lines, check this out:
Kanily between two minor houses(i dont know the houses so ill just call them random house A and random house B)
as minor houses they dont get the full rights given to major houses correct? so during the war of assassins atomics Accendtly get used in a place that was SUPPOSSED to be devoid of people(in keeping with the rules layed down for atomics) unfourtunately this happened to be on a planet owned by another house who sided with one house or another, but there is no evidence that either house, A or B, was responible (hahaha, now we get to the plot twist) during this time the PC's must figure out what is going on why the atomics were used and who used them ( noone the atomics were fake and there were no casualties it was a diversionary tactic to get pressure off of one of the waring houses to let them have a respite and recoup their losses) during all of this a fourth minor house gains a bit for a small part of Arrakis near the south polar region and that upsets the fremen, however the house has no interest in keeping its claim on the spice field that the bid contains as it would draw too much attention from the greater houses and currently that would be bad as the great houses dont like competition for spice. so the PC's now have a varity of tasks, the can investigate the atomics, join in the war (the war of assassins fell through and it broke out in to open war) be part of an evacuation force leaving arrakis and setting up the south polar base for whichever house buys it, or fremen wroking against the house to get them to leave the south polar region...
man i need somewhere to put this creative energy.....some where my girl friend would see it......
Well, Righetti, I give you major points for having typed an insanely long run-on sentence, (and I won't even go into spelling or capitalization). It took 10 minutes to figure out where one thought stopped and another started. Leaving that aside, it sounds like it would make for a good adventure or even the start of a campaign -- bringing an obscure House Minor into prominence.
Personally I'm a big fan of playing the indigenous Fremen fighting a guerilla war against the so-called "stewards" the Harkonnens, but I know that's not everyone's cup of tea. Well, too bad! It's my game and that's gonna be your only option! There's gonna be only one character class: Fremen rebel! No choices! No escape! BWAHAHAHAHAH! Um... er... Only kidding.
Another update is coming soon...
Steve-OHey there people I was wondering if you have put your work in a prd or is there a single place I can go to downlown the information about the game?
Welcome, John. Well, I don't know what a prd is, but I'm working on compiling all the d20 Dune stuff into a Adobe Acrobat PDF file for easy downloading. This won't be done for a little while yet, as I'm moving everything I own to Hawaii. I'll still have access to my computer, but it might be a while before I'm doing regular updates again.
Steve-OThis won't be done for a little while yet, as I'm moving everything I own to Hawaii.
Good luck on the move!
Hope you enjoy all that warm, inviting weather you rat bastage!!
Sorry, I'm just stuck in Chicago with 8 inches of snow & 28 degree highs..
Still lurking here, patiently awaiting what kind a Arakeen goodness will come of the PDF
Slingbld~
The first would-be gem is a paragraph I read in a military history book I recieved for Christmas. Here it is:
"Guerre Couverte: Term for a war involving minor noblemen of the Middle Ages who had the authority to kill and maim but not to take prisoners or damage property. (French)"
On its own, this could be an alternative type of conflict to a War of Assassins or other Kanly-mandated forms of dispute resolution. A potential spin-off is the fact that "maiming" is specifically mentioned as a permissable action. This could be an interesting opportunity to expand on core D20 rules.
Basically, maiming would become an alternative to the coup de grace (and also as a called shot option if you allow them). Rather then instant death it would impose some sort of crippling injury on the target. Possibilities include blindness, disfigurement, damage to limbs, hamstringing, ect. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to come up with a whole lot of interesting damage types. These rules would also expand on the dueling culture of the Imperium ("Killing you is beneath my dignity. Instead I shall teach you a lesson you will never forget") and offer some interesting role-playing opportunities (such as trying to find the technology necessary to heal aforementioned wounds).
"Guerre Couverte: Term for a war involving minor noblemen of the Middle Ages who had the authority to kill and maim but not to take prisoners or damage property. (French)"
On its own, this could be an alternative type of conflict to a War of Assassins or other Kanly-mandated forms of dispute resolution. A potential spin-off is the fact that "maiming" is specifically mentioned as a permissable action. This could be an interesting opportunity to expand on core D20 rules.
Basically, maiming would become an alternative to the coup de grace (and also as a called shot option if you allow them). Rather then instant death it would impose some sort of crippling injury on the target. Possibilities include blindness, disfigurement, damage to limbs, hamstringing, etc...
These rules would also expand on the dueling culture of the Imperium ("Killing you is beneath my dignity. Instead I shall teach you a lesson you will never forget") and offer some interesting role-playing opportunities.
Brilliant! I love it, Interpol! This is exactly the flavor/feel of the DUNE novels and this will definitely be included in the chapter on Kanly.
Meanwhile, I leave for Hawaii on Monday, and I need to spend the rest of the week getting ready for that -- so it might be a while till I post anything significant. Please continue these boards and keep putting out the great ideas! I'll be talking to you all very soon.
Jedi Steve-OJedi Stevo... I just thought you'd like to know...I joined these messaged boards just because of your dune thread.. I'm very interested in your Dune Fanbook ^_^... so please keep up the good work ^_^... and I can't wait for the final product....if I can I'll try to give suggestions...
Wow... Such high praise, Talmeth. I only hope I can live up to your expectations. It's true that the game is not just my brainchild, but a collective effort by a multitude of gamers. Welcome to the boards and feel free to make any suggestions that you think will help. Welcome to the team...
Steve-O
1. Have you considered trying to create statlines for various characters (i.e. Leto, Paul, Seliem, The Baron, etc.) throughout their life times, kinda like it does in the SWRPG book? I only wonder because I think this might be a cool and interesting idea.
2. Are you considering creating stats and rules for the various Dune vehicles(i.e. Ornithopters, Highliners, Carry-alls, Kindjal fighters, Harvesters, etc.)? Again could be a cool and interesting thing, if this has already been stated in the thread sorry for making you repeat yourself, i just didn't notice it as I was paging through things..
3. I know you've stated that the Butlerian Jihad will be setting type in your fanbook, but how many types of thinking machines have you considered making? Also, have you considered using the Cymeks like the Titans ? Or the effects of the Holtzman shields on the thinking machines? Unless of course you don't want to use Brian's/anderson's work, although I don't know if all that is exclusively their work... (I have seen your Opinion on it)....
4. The d20 system is really based around getting like 20 levels before you go epic, and in my opinion that would be done in the normal life span of a human (about 60-70 years). So the normal person would be like level 20 in the "ordinary" classes, and the the hero would be like level 20 in the "hero" classes before age becomes a factor, but with Spice increasing the age of a person, have you thought about pushing back the level that you hit "epic" levels?... Just an idea
5. I also have an interpretation as to the relation between the spice, the little makers, the water of life, the sand worms, and the Shai-Hulud. I dunno if that debate is still running or anything or if it matters (i.e. you guys figured out the cannon on the subject). If you'd like to hear it just tell me so, if not thats cool too, since I understand that your in a hurry to get all of this finished... ^_^
well thats all the questions I can think of for right now ... tell me what you think, and your answers, and I hope this helps with all your ideas...
Jedi Steve-O⁚"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
Alas I think my campaign has 4-5 more sessions before it draws to it's titanic conclusion. 3 years in the making!
I'll be posting my Dune d20 Modern rules when I get back from Holiday - along with the synopsis, and other background materials in a nice presentation set. Hopefully you can all find some use in them.
Alas I think my campaign has 4-5 more sessions before it draws to it's titanic conclusion. 3 years in the making!
Sounds epic...
I'll be posting my Dune d20 Modern rules when I get back from Holiday - along with the synopsis, and other background materials in a nice presentation set. Hopefully you can all find some use in them.
Hope you have a good holiday and we'll hear from you when you get back. Can't wait to hear all about the campaign (please post that synopsis! we'd all like to see it!) and we're looking forward to seeing your DUNE d20 Modern rules set.
Jedi Steve-OHad a couple of thoughts in the last little while that might be of use to somebody. If nothing else, this'll bump the thread somewhat...
Hey Interpol, did you ever send on those rules for Dune Equipment? I'm looking forward to seeing what you've come up with after being inspired by d20 Future.
Steve-OSANDSTORM
D&D Environment Series Supplement
Bruce R. Cordell, Jennifer Clarke-Wilkes, JD Wiker
Sweltering temperatures, bone-scouring windstorms, and other dangers threaten explorers in waste environments. From arid deserts and volcanic regions to ash-choked dungeons and the lava-filled layers of Gehenna, unwary travelers may fall victim to the unrelenting hazards that await.
This supplement for the D&D game explores the impact of desert conditions and extreme hot-weather environments on every aspect of game play. Along with rules for adapting to, navigating through, and surviving hazardous hot-weather conditions and terrain, Sandstorm also includes new races, spells, feats, magic items, prestige classes, and monsters associated with deserts and other wastelands.
Release Date: March 2005
Format: Trade Hardcover
Page Count: 224
ISBN: 0-7869-3655-X
Price: $34.95; C$49.95
Jedi Steve-OThe d20 system is really based around 20 levels before you go epic, and in my opinion that would be done in the normal life span of a human (about 60-70 years) ...before age becomes a factor, but with Spice increasing the age of a person, have you thought about pushing back the level that you hit "epic" levels?...
Hey Talmeth, good to have you on the boards! Thanks again for mentioning this topic. Okay, it seems to me that the original 20 levels are more than enough to play out multiple adventures of grand scope, but for those of us who actually like super-high-powered campaigns, Epic Levels are a very reasonable option. I think Owen K.C. Stephens or someother WizO put up some rules for d20 Modern Epic recently, and I'll work on adapting them for a later update -- if anyone can point me to them on the web, I'd be grateful (hint, hint). ;)
I guess I just feel there's plenty of options contained within 20 levels for using combinations of Mentats/Bene Gesserit/Nobles/Fremen/Armsmen, etc. to make Epic Levels a secondary concern at least for now. It's definitely an option to be explored, though...
Jedi Steve-OChristhaad von Silgaimaar, Heir To House Wallach
Son of Baron von Wallach and young heir to throne of House Wallach on Wallach VII.
Na-Baron Christhaad von Silgaimaar: Noble 1; CR 1; Male human; V/WP 8/14; Init +2 (Dex); Spd 10m; Defense 14 (+2 Dex, +2 class), flat-footed 12; BAB +0; Grapple +2; Single Atk +2 melee (1d4+2/19-20, masterwork dagger); Full Atk +2 melee (1d4+2/19-20, masterwork dagger) or +2 melee (1d3+2, unarmed strike) or +2 ranged (3d6/20, lasgun); Face/Reach 2m/2m; SQ Favor +1, right of passage; Action Points 6; Loyalty +1 [House Wallach]; Reputation +1; SV Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +3; Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 16. Height 1.8 m; Weight 78 kgs.
Skills: Bluff +7, Diplomacy +9, Gather Information +7, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (art) +4, Knowledge (history) +4, Knowledge (nobility & royalty) +6, Knowledge (tactics) +4, Ride +4, Sense Motive +5, Speak Gallach (basic), and Speak Wallach Battle Language.
Feats: Holtzman Shield Proficiency, Human, Lasgun Proficiency, Noble Born, Simple Weapons Proficiency.
Possessions: Dueling dagger, personal shield, various personal items: Noble’s outfit (formal, training).
Jedi Steve-O...although I have a few questions...
1. Have you considered trying to create stat-lines for various characters (i.e. Leto, Paul, Seliem, The Baron, etc.) throughout their lifetimes, kinda like it does in the SWRPG book?
Yup. In your honor, I've started to develop "stat-lines" for popular characters, starting with my iconic characters that I'm developing for my game.
2. Are you considering creating stats and rules for the various Dune vehicles (i.e. Ornithopters, Highliners, Carry-Alls, Kindjal fighters, Harvesters, etc.)?
No stats yet, but Vehicles are definitely on the list of "Stuff To Do." Volunteers? Someone good with ships/vehicles?
3. ...how many types of thinking machines have you considered making? Also, have you considered using the Cymeks like the Titans? Or the effects of the Holtzman shields on the thinking machines? Unless of course you don't want to use Brian Herbert's/Kevin J. Anderson's work, although I don't know if all that is exclusively their work... (I have seen your Opinion on it)...
Haven't read the Butlerian Jihad or any of those novels, so honestly I don't know what Cymeks or Titans are. Haven't really considered the effects of a Holtzman Shield on thinking machines -- but then, I haven't really considered playing the game pre-Jihad.
5. I also have an interpretation as to the relation between the spice, the little makers, the water of life, the sand worms, and the Shai-Hulud. I dunno if that debate is still running or anything or if it matters (i.e. you guys figured out the canon on the subject). If you'd like to hear it just tell me so, if not that's cool too, since I understand that you're in a hurry to get all of this finished...
I'd love to hear it... lay it on me! (Actually, I think everyone but me is in a hurry on this one.
) With no game group to play with right now, I don't mind taking a few extra months to get it right -- besides, Sandstorm ought to add a bunch of cool stuff. Jedi Steve-OI think Owen K.C. Stephens or someother WizO put up some rules for d20 Modern Epic recently, and I'll work on adapting them for a later update -- if anyone can point me to them on the web, I'd be grateful (hint, hint). ;)
Any way at all, you could point me to that D20 Modern Epic Thread??!?!??!?!?
I cannot seem to find it anywhere & may be needing info like that very soon
Thanks,
Slingbld~
1. Have you considered trying to create stat-lines for various characters (i.e. Leto, Paul, Seliem, The Baron, etc.) throughout their lifetimes, kinda like it does in the SWRPG book?Yup. In your honor, I've started to develop "stat-lines" for popular characters, starting with my iconic characters that I'm developing for my game.
well thank you, I feel very welcomed to this boards since you started this just in my honour ^_^
2. Are you considering creating stats and rules for the various Dune vehicles (i.e. Ornithopters, Highliners, Carry-Alls, Kindjal fighters, Harvesters, etc.)?No stats yet, but Vehicles are definitely on the list of "Stuff To Do." Volunteers? Someone good with ships/vehicles?
I may infact be willing to take a wack a vehicles, I just need to look at the d20 modern and future books to see how it deals with them and see if I'm up to the challenge. If I am, I'll post you a message saying so ^_^
3. ...how many types of thinking machines have you considered making? Also, have you considered using the Cymeks like the Titans? Or the effects of the Holtzman shields on the thinking machines? Unless of course you don't want to use Brian Herbert's/Kevin J. Anderson's work, although I don't know if all that is exclusively their work... (I have seen your Opinion on it)...Haven't read the Butlerian Jihad or any of those novels, so honestly I don't know what Cymeks or Titans are. Haven't really considered the effects of a Holtzman Shield on thinking machines -- but then, I haven't really considered playing the game pre-Jihad.
OH, well The Cymeks are basically Machines with Human Minds, and the Titans are Humans who enslaved man Just before the Machines did, and pretty much accidently handed mankind over to the machines, and the Holtzman shield wasn't actually created as a protective shield, it was a scrambler shield, because it would basically scramble the gelcircut brain of the machines, but the Cymeks were unaffected because they had a Human brain. (it was Brian Herberts and Kevin J. Anderson's work, so I dunno how true to the cannon it is...), It was later modified to be the Holtzman shield we know and love ^_^
...Cymeks are basically machines with human minds,
So I guess I should include rules for cybernetics? (Thanks, d20 Future and Star Wars Hero's Guide for writing these already!)
...and the Titans are humans who enslaved man just before the Machines did
Are the Titans advanced humans, i.e. advanced intellects? How were they able to enslave mankind?
Well, I haven't made a secret of how I feel about the work of Kevin J. Anderson &Brian Herbert's on the DUNE prequels. I personally feel they are not only unnecessary, but clunky, sloppily written, poorly edited and frequently run contrary to the time-line established by Frank Herbert. (Not to put too fine a point on it...)
Some fans chalk their work up to "creative license" while some purists consider this tantamount to literary heresy. My own views fall somewhere in the middle. I don't like their stuff, but I'm not too concerned about it, either. I just don't use it.
INVITATION FOR RESPONSE: Should I include rules for this prequel madness or just pretend it doesn't exist? I'm usually not much for the "Ostrich Solution" so ideally I'd like to include an optional section of rules (with stats for Weirding Modules, Cymeks, Titans and Ordos, etc.) set up in modules like d20 Future, where you can include them or not and design your game's flavor as you like. I'm all about options.
Jedi Steve-OP.S. For Your Consideration: Just because it's in print and somebody signed his name to it, doesn't make it "true" or "canon."
Okay, Talmeth, I'm anxiously awaiting on your own personal "interpretation as to the relation between the spice, the little makers, the Water of Life, the sandworms, and Shai-Hulud," but in the meantime, let's talk about a couple things.
So I guess I should include rules for cybernetics? (Thanks, d20 Future and Star Wars Hero's Guide for writing these already!)
Are the Titans advanced humans, i.e. advanced intellects? How were they able to enslave mankind?
Well, I haven't made a secret of how I feel about the work of Kevin J. Anderson &Brian Herbert's on the DUNE prequels. I personally feel they are not only unnecessary, but clunky, sloppily written, poorly edited and frequently run contrary to the time-line established by Frank Herbert. (Not to put too fine a point on it...)
Some fans chalk their work up to "creative license" while some purists consider this tantamount to literary heresy. My own views fall somewhere in the middle. I don't like their stuff, but I'm not too concerned about it, either. I just don't use it.
INVITATION FOR RESPONSE: Should I include rules for this prequel madness or just pretend it doesn't exist? I'm usually not much for the "Ostrich Solution" so ideally I'd like to include an optional section of rules (with stats for Weirding Modules, Cymeks, Titans and Ordos, etc.) set up in modules like d20 Future, where you can include them or not and design your game's flavor as you like. I'm all about options.
P.S. For Your Consideration: Just because it's in print and somebody signed his name to it, doesn't make it "true" or "canon."
Well to be Exact the Cymeks are no loner CLOSE to being human, their brain is removed and placed into a canister, that can be moved from "model" to "model". The Titans basically conquered mankind because mankind itself wasn't very "powerful" or "willful" so the 16(or so) Titans banded together and build an AI for machines, which later became Self-Aware and gave rise to the need of the Bulterian Jihad. So in a way, compared to the rest of mankind yes you could say their were "intellectually advanced" individuals, although the book seemed to play them off as teenage hackers who grouped together over an advanced version of the internet, while the rest of mankind feel to Decadence.
And I deffinately agree with your "FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION" comment, hence why I'm always saying "(I dunno how true to cannon this all is)". I just think that if we present this extra stuff to players it makes the fanbook seem even more complete
on another Note: I will post my Interpretation on the whole Spice/worms relationship a little later today... and Also, I think we should try to come up with a list of vehicles for whoever does the vehicles listings and all that (if I do it, it would help me, If not me, Then it would help the other person ^_^)
anyway, thats all I have to Say, and thanks for making me feel so welcome ^_^
Great work! I think everyone here would agree that D20 Dune is a first-rate job and that we're all looking forward to its completion. Below are my 2 solaris worth of commentary. Keep up the good work.
Innuendo and Bluff seem to overlap significantly, especially since Bluff has seduction and send message functions added. It would probably be a good idea to drop Innuendo entirely.
This is definitely something I needed to hear. I had been thinking along the same line, but I'm glad I have someone else saying the same thing. I'll take a closer look at dropping the Innuendo skill.
The feat Battle-Scarred seems a little too narrow, although it's a cool idea. Maybe make it a combination of higher Massive Damage Threshold and something else?
I'm just wary of having a feat that duplicates the power of another feat, then adding another power into it. Might be a little over-powered.
For Bindu Conditioning vs. Bindu Strike, you could differentiate them by the type of condition: stun vs paralyze.
This is a good idea. There's also Prana Strike that could do temporary Str damage.
The unique background feats were really cool, but should probably be more powerful, in the same way that the initial feats are.
Glad you liked both. Hopefully the background feats will survive a little tweak.
False Start is a great idea, especially the time reduction for taking 20.
Can't take credit for this one, thank the fine folks at AEG and Spycraft.
The Scent feat should probably have higher equirements, given both the usefulness of Scent and the difficulty for a human to acquire that kind of ability.
Good point. I'll take a look at upping the prerequisites for this one. It's a fun feat that has a lot of potential.
Self-improvement seems a little sketchy. I'd be wary of allowing characters to trade feats for attribute points.
This is a feat that I borrowed from The GameMechanics Modern Supplement. I'll take a look at putting a GM caveat on it.
Spice Crew Chief could be generalized to vehicle commanders of all types.
What about calling it "Crew Chief" to refer to more generalized crew-run vehicles?
Steely gaze should require no helmet... enforces more heroic behavior.
You are devious. I like it.
The factions section is very cool. It would be nice to have more faction-specific feats. I'd also make the existing faction feats more powerful, to encourage players to take them.
I'm so glad you liked this section -- It's my current favorite. Like much of the book, this section is still under construction. I'm hoping for one or two faction-specific feats per faction. I'll take a look at buffing up the existing faction feats to encourage their use. I think it's a great way to reward players for their loyalty.
Would if be worth creating a separate class of monsters called "Sandworms" and treating them kind of like D&D treats dragons? Then we could have age categories, special rules, ect...
That is the best, most original viewpoint on the sandworms I've heard yet. This is definitely something I'll be looking closer at.
Thanks for all your great input, and keep it coming! If you have anything else to add -- please let me know. Your help has been invaluable and I look forward to your next message.
Jedi Steve-OThe feat Battle-Scarred seems a little too narrow, although it's a cool idea. Maybe make it a combination of higher Massive Damage Threshold and something else?
I re-worded the last bit to make the feat slightly more powerful. What do you think -- is this a good compromise?
Battle-Scarred
You have seen blood shed in battle—both your enemy’s and your own. You know your limits—and how to push them. Enemies find it difficult to Intimidate you or scare you with mere physical pain.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Fortitude saves and Sense Motive checks in combat.
Jedi Steve-OInterpol99 has (once again) sent me an amazing list of critiques on my d20 DUNE game. He's officially earned himself an Assistant Designer credit and is now working on his Editor status. :D With his permission, I'll go through the list one-by-one here for all to see. I love sharing my flaws with the world.
Hey, me again. Hope you don't mind the laundry list format; I realize that it's a lot easier for me to make comments then for you to evaluate/act on them. To make amends, I've included some more feat-type stuff of my own after the (hopefully) constructive criticism.
Studious and Mentat Training are very similar. Maybe make Mentat Conditioning a more powerful initial feat. Also, is Mentat Training available to all characters?
I'm definitely interested in tweaking Mentat Conditioning to be a more powerful feat -- it's available to characters with a certain Intelligence 13+. I'll look at changing the pre-requisite.
Would it be worth adapting D20 Modern talents into class abilities and feats?
Some of these I've already looked at. I'm a big fan of using the Smart Hero class features and talents as Mentat possibilities.
Battle Scarred as +2 to Sense Motive checks in combat and double the normal chance of stabilizing?
A definite possibility. I'll also look at re-tooling some feats to account for automatically stabilizing in combat.
Diligent probably shouldn't give bonuses to Decipher Script, as there are two other feats that already do so.
Another good point. Dililgent could be used for _____?
Disgraced Nobility... an Initial feat granting some Noble benefits without taking the class? Kind of like that caster level feat?
I designed it with more of a role-playing opportunity in mind, but I like your reasoning better. I wanted to give an option for those who wanted to play a displaced noble character -- a noble from a rogue house, etc.
Escaped Slave should probably be initial, and seems to be missing the [Regional] tag. Also, it should be more powerful. Maybe a +3 bonus or some other minor benefit like +1 hit point?
I'll double-check this one to see if it can be tweaked.
Filthy Rich should probably be equal to one's Charisma bonus (rather then potentially-negative modifier) or one's character level. Alternatively, one could change the name to Retinue and make it a noble class ability.
Great idea! I took the feat from Spycraft, so it fits in with a couple other that stack along with it.
Does Frightful Presence really only require a free action? That seems awful generous for such a powerful feat.
Hmmm... I'll take a look at the prerequisites and see if it's out of balance.
Minor terminology issue, but some feats (like greater weapon focus) say: "grants a +1 bonus which stacks with prerequisite feat x", while others (like advanced skill mastery) say "The bonus from prerequisite feat x increases from +2 to +3".
Also, would it be worth standardizing everything to either Greater or Advanced, rather then having both? I'm not sure if that's allowed under the OGL, but if it's possible, we should go for it.
That's not surprising -- but a great detail to recognize. I'm not technically sure how the Advanced Skill Mastery feat-tree fits into the OGL. I sort of "borrowed" it from Spycraft. I'll need to take a harder look at the wording terminology.
Would it be worth renaming Decipher Script to Cryptography? Both names show up in the text.
I like Cryptography -- it implies codes, etc. as well as other languages,;as opposed to Decipher Script feels like it refers only to foreign languages. I'll make a note to edit for consistancy.
Noble Born should probably be a bonus feat for nobles or something... otherwise that could get weird.
Good point. Maybe make it one of the bonus feats for the Heir starting occupation?
Modify Combat Style is a really cool feat. However, I'd make the DC of the attack roll equal to 10 + target's BAB + target's level. Also, using modify combat style doesn't take an action, right? I was a little unsure.
I'll double-check the wording that one as well. Sheesh I got a lot of work to do...
For Personal Staff, should they be differentiated from minions by giving them useful non-combat skills like Repair, Knowldege, Decipher Script (Cryptography), etc.? Or making them experts rather then commoners?
Excellent suggestion. Again, something I've got to look harder at tomorrow.
Persuasive is missing a description.
Not surprising. Like I said, this is still a rough draft. I'll throw a description in there.
I'd add a bonus to research checks to the Scholar feat, and maybe have it increase critical ranges as well.
I like the idea of critical threat ranges for skills, but I've got a serious decision to make as to whether I want to include it as "official" or not.
Sidestep seems to clash with Improved Dodge and Greater Dodge.
Next I suppose you're gonna say the plaid pants I'm wearing clash with my leopard-print shirt?! SHEESH! :D Okay... I'll look at how to make this one fit better.
Shouldn't Silver Palm be called Silver Tongue? And I'd probably delete it entirely, as Smooth Talk(er?) seems to cover roughly the same ground, as does Persuasive.
A lot of these were ported right over from other games. I had another editor helping me and we didn't always communicate as clearly as we should have.
I'd just like to say at this point that your eye for detail on this game has been amazing. This is EXACTLY the sort of help I'm gonna need if I want to make this a quality product. Thanks. More Weirding Feats would probably be nice. Also, why is Trance a Bindu feat, but all-around vision is a weirding feat? Would it be worth it to scavenge ideas from Star Wars' force feats?
A LOT more work has to be done on the Weirding section. This is one I've got a lot of pride in, but it needs some serious construction.
I'd make Weapon Master more powerful. Maybe a larger bonus or some other type of benefit (like a bonus to attack rolls to execute special combat maneuvers?).
Good suggestion.
Just out of curiousity, why exactly is Lightning Reflexes renamed Whipcord Reflexes? I think there are still references to lightning reflexes in the text too.
I think I changed it because the wording of the original DUNE book - "whipcord" was mentioned specifically. I'll have to change the rest for consistancy.
Maybe add an Environmental Combat feat similar to Zero-G Combat, providing a reduction in weather and other environmental penalties? Could also be called Guerilla Warfare or something.
Wow. That's a ton of stuff, and I'm sure there's more where that came from. I'll wait to comment on the original stuff that Interpol included in his message -- it's late and I'm whipped. :surrender
Jedi Steve-O, Prophet of Muad'DibHeya all.
Damn its been a long time. Nice to see that the ideas are coming along quite nicely too. Well for my first return post I pose an idea. Dune revolves around a lot of melee combat considering the advent of Holtzmann Shielding. Wars are fought with blades and martial arts once again. Well should it not be possible then that we may have a combatant who focuses on melee combat, particularly blade weaponry. Enter the Duelist, master of finesse and quickness of those oh so pretty flexible plas-steel blades the atreides soldiers carry. But where shall we find this class?
Fortunately others have already done the job for us. The Swashbuckler from Complete Warrior makes an almost perfect blade wielding bravo for the Dune universe. With a little tweaking such as some bonus feats based around Shield combat we have the perfect Shield + Blade fighter. Personally I'd love to see something like this in the Dune world and am kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier. The class focuses on speed and dexterous mobility as well as one one one fighting with its dodge bonuses. A nice class all in all.
Arx.
Damn its been a long time. Nice to see that the ideas are coming along quite nicely too.
Nice to have you back, Arx. I was beginning to wonder if you'd found someone else to play with. :D
The Swashbuckler from Complete Warrior makes an almost perfect Blade-Wielding Bravo for the Dune universe. With a little tweaking such as some bonus feats based around Shield Combat we have the perfect Shield + Blade fighter. Personally I'd love to see something like this in the Dune world and am kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier. The class focuses on speed and dexterous mobility as well as one one one fighting with its dodge bonuses. A nice class all in all.
Well done, Arx! I've got the Complete Warrior book, but honestly haven't looked through it cover-to-cover. I'll definitely check this out as a possibility. Welcome back. That was a post with authority! For your efforts. Steve-OHere's some more DUNE-flavored goodness served up hot from our man Interpol.
Right, here's the original material I promised. Again, sorry that it's not D20, but it's fairly close.
Coordinate [Cost 3,Oratory 4+ ranks]: When aiding another character to make a skill check, characters with the Coordinate talent add their Charisma bonus to the final skill check. This bonus may not be greater than the number of participants in the skill check, and multiple Coordinate bonuses do not stack. *This feat was adapted from the Net Book of Feats, IIRC*
Coordinate could be a good Noble class feature or feat.
Cautious [Cost 15, Dexterity 13+, Intelligence 15+]: The Cautious talent gives a character a 50% chance of ignoring a critical failure on any Strength, Intelligence or Dexterity-based skill (excluding combat skills and Dodge). The die roll is treated as a result of "10".
NOTE: I think there was a feat called Adrenaline Rush or something similar that gave bonuses whenever someone was at less then half hit points or something. I think that could be kind of cool.
Cautious... This is a great feature, but I'm not sure if it's the right name... Maybe "Head-Strong" or "Reckless" for Strength/Constitution-based checks. I believe there's already something like this for Intelligence-based checks.
Compelling Performance [Cost 15, Charisma 17+, Art/Performance (Acting) 4+ ranks, Oratory 10+ ranks, Empathy, Charm]: When making Oratory checks to a crowd of Friendly or better disposition, a character with the Compelling Performance talent may attempt to induce an emotional state in all listeners rather than affect their disposition or propose a course of action. The DC of this check is 30 and requires the character to select one of the emotional states listed below, which lasts for one hour after the performance, or until canceled by an opposed Oratory check.
Failure results in the mood of the crowd worsening by one level.
Anger: Everyone affected by the performance gains a +2 morale bonus to Strength. At the same time, they suffer a -2 penalty to Willpower and their behavior becomes aggressive and impulsive.
Calm: The audience becomes more reasonable and less inclined to violent actions, resulting in a +2 bonus to their Willpower scores. This saps their desire to fight, so that they suffer a -4 penalty on all attack rolls.
Despair: All members of the crowd receive a -2 moral penalty to skill checks and saving throws. Even slight danger is enough to cause them to flee.
Hope: The audience gains a +2 bonus to all skill checks and saving throws. They act with dedication and resolve, pursuing their goals fanatically.
This could be interesting, but finding a class to assign it to might prove tricky. Maybe as a court entertainer-type bonus feat (or a Noble's speech power)?
Etiquette [Cost 7, Intelligence 13+, Charisma 13+]: Tact, foresight and a little protocol go a long way towards smoothing diplomatic blunders. This talent allows a character to ignore critical failures for Charisma-based skills 50% of the time, allowing the character to use a result of 10 instead.
Dominating Presence [Cost 15, Charisma 15+, Level 9+]: Dominating Presence represents an aura of authority projected by the most experienced characters. It provides a +6 bonus to Intimidation checks and allows the character to achieve a Devoted disposition through Intimidation. This talent also lessens the resentment caused by successful Intimidation, so that when it wears off, the NPC's attitude returns to it's previous disposition, rather than one level below.
Again, these seem naturals for the Noble class, perhaps even the HOUSE LORD Prestige Class.
Dazzle [Cost 7, Intelligence 13+, Charisma 13+, Empathy, Deceptive]: Any character who possesses the Dazzle talent can temporarily befuddle NPCs in non-combat situations. This requires a Fast Talk check DC 10 + level of victim x 2, who then makes an opposed Resolve check. Anyone who successfully saves is unaffected and cannot be targeted for further Dazzling ever. If the save fails, the NPC is stunned for 2d4+1 rounds.
This effect is instantly negated should the character or one of his allies initiate combat or take hostile actions (circling around behind the NPC, for example). To use this talent, the character must be able to talk to the target briefly and be clearly non-threatening. Thus, a PC could use his dazzle ability to walk past a guard and out of a maximum security prison, provided he was unarmed and escaped before the duration expired. Even on a failed save, the target gains a cumulative +2 bonus on further saves against being Dazzled.
Glib [Cost 15, Charisma 17+, Empathy]: This skill renders your character extraordinarily skillful at lying. The believability of any lie you tell is reduced by one step for the purpose of using the Fast Talk skill. Believability cannot be reduced to less than simple/believable.
These also seem suited for the Charismatic-types. Best to take advantage of a Mentat's logic or a Noble's cunning.
Time Sense [Cost 1]: Characters with Time Sense can estimate the current time to within a few minutes with ninety percent accuracy. If subjected to long periods of stress, unconsciousness or other disorienting circumstances, Time Sense will function accurately only once out of ten times. The degree of error in these circumstances is determined by the GM, and depends on their severity.
Seems like a great minor-level power for the Bene Gesserit (or even the Mentat).
Voice of Reason [Cost 10, Charisma 15+, Empathy]: As a full-round action, a character with the Voice of Reason talent can speak reasonably and compassionately to another character who is under the influence of a mind-affecting substance, treatment or device. The character makes a Diplomacy check against the DC of the Resolve save. If successful, it breaks the mind-controlling effect. The target must be able to hear you. Using this talent requires concentration.
Could this be modified to a psionic-power for Weirding Powers?
Low Profile: Face in the crowd, DC 20+ int check to remember appearance unless they do something extraordinary. EVen then, still DC 10.
There's already a feat called Low Profile (IIRC), but it lessens a person's Reputation by 3. Perhaps we could call this one "Blending In" and make it part of the Knave's repertoire.
Good luck and I hope you enjoy writing D20 Dune as much as I enjoy reading it.
Thanks again for the well wishes! I'm having a blast writing d20 DUNE, and with this group's help, I'm sure it'll be done in no time.
Steve-ODo me a favor, though and use the following format:
FEAT NAME
Flavor text description goes here.
Prerequisites: Any prerequisites for taking the feat.
Benefit: The bonus you gain from the feat.
Here's the list:
- Valor of the Brave
- Justice of the Great
- Learning of the Wise
- Prayers of the Righteous
- First Approximation Analysis [Mentat]
- Master Strategist [Mentat]
- Machine Logic [Mentat]
- Twisted Conditioning [Mentat]
- CHOAM Advisor
- Immunity (specific drug)
- Latent Prescience
- Weirding Combat
- Addiction (specific drug)
- Information Network
- Secret Things [BG]
- Truthsaying [BG]
- Ways of the Dark Mother [BG]
- Ally
- Honorarium Familia
- Military Genius
- Patron
- False Allegiance
- Renegade House
- Noble Title
- Spice Diet
- Stamp of Strangeness
- Terrible Purpose
Thanks in advance... now let's see what you've got!
Jedi Steve-O, Imperial Yes-ManI had been thinking along the same line, but I'm glad I have someone else saying the same thing. I'll take a closer look at dropping the Innuendo skill.
That brings up a question: is this going to be 3.0 or 3.5-compatible? Because the Innuendo skill was dropped in 3.5.
Another good point. Dililgent could be used for _____?
What's the description of the Diligent feat? Since the search feature is down, it's too much trouble to find out if it was mentioned previously.
Wyvern
That brings up a question: is this going to be 3.0 or 3.5-compatible? Because the Innuendo skill was dropped in 3.5.
What's the description of the Diligent feat? Since the search feature is down, it's too much trouble to find out if it was mentioned previously.
Wyvern
Hey Wyvern, good to have you back with us. I hadn't really thought about making the game compatible with 3.5 to be honest. I'm just not terribly concerned with it as this version is designed to be a stand-alone product. Worrying about compatibility at this point might be more trouble than I care to take on, but I'll keep it on the back burner for later.
Diligent
You are trained at paying attention to details.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Search and Cryptography checks.
Jedi Steve-OWhat are the d20 Stats for the Sand Worm? How many Hit Dice does it have? What is its Challenge Rating? Does it carry any treasure in its gut? I suppose it would be considered a Colossal creature.
Sandworm? What sandworms? This is DUNE. Maybe you're thinking of d20 Tremors...
Okay, just kidding. :D Actually the stats for the sandworm are still in rough draft form. There is some debate about whether to make the sandworm its own type of creature (like Dragons).
Jedi Steve-OP.S. No, it doesn't "carry any treasure in its gut."
Diligent
You are trained at paying attention to details.
Hmm... Search and Forgery perhaps?
Wyvern
...The Swashbuckler from Complete Warrior makes an almost perfect blade-wielding bravo for the Dune universe. With a little tweaking such as some bonus feats based around Shield combat we have the perfect Shield + Blade fighter. Personally I'd love to see something like this in the Dune world and am kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier. The class focuses on speed and dexterous mobility as well as one one one fighting with its dodge bonuses. A nice class all in all.
I'll post up the rough draft of the class as soon as I finish it (should be the next couple days).
Steve-OSo, forgive me for not reading though the entire thread (I just got here) but I'm curious, when do you think that you'll have this available for download.
That's the $64,000 question.
The answer is I feel a bit like MicroSoft on this one. I wanted it ready for summer (that's last summer...) and then I figured I could have it ready to go by Halloween. That was a bust, too. So, the short answer is: it's in playtesting right now, but It's just me working on it -- no crew, no development team, no staff. I guess it'll it be ready (realistically) in a month or three... Hopefully. :D Please don't quote me, though.
Steve-OB.C.
...would you please E-mail me the stuff youv'e got when you get done? I just finished the first Dune book and I'm wanting to work on my own campaign. On a different note I could definetly see this as Star Wars D20.
Hey B.C., welcome to the party. This is pretty much the most asked question on this thread, and it's the one I most hate answering.
Here's the deal: When it's all done, I'll put it in PDF form and post it to a website. Then I'll put that website's address here in this thread. What you do from there is up to you.
In answer to your second question/statement: I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but d20 DUNE is so far beyond Star Wars d20 it'll knock yer socks off. There's new classes, new skills, tons of new feats, new advanced classes, new backgrounds, a whole new loyalty system, new starting occupations (a la d20 Modern), and the list just goes on... Trust me when I say it'll be worth the wait -- my playtesters and "editors" will back me up, hopefully. :D
Jedi Steve-OSorry about that, But I only read half way through the thread before I decided I had to get this somehow. What stuff do you guys have left to do? Any way I could help? I've only finished the first book, But would be willing to help when possible.
Hey Blood Mage [B.C.], glad to have you on board! Your offer of help is much appreciated. I recently posted a list of feats that have titles but no descriptions, so you could start there -- even if you don't have the technical know-how, just some suggestions or general ideas of what the feats should do would be useful.
I've just about finished the write-up for the Duelist class, and the Sardaukar advanced class is nearly complete.
I'll be concentrating my next block of time on the Prana/Bindu chapter of psionics.
The equipment section still needs some work, so anything you'd like to contribute as far as lists (and descriptions) of weapons, equipment, and especially vehicles [ornithopters, carryalls, spice factorys, spotters, etc.] would be greatly appreciated.
Jedi Steve-OModify Combat Style is a really cool feat. However, I'd make the DC of the attack roll equal to 10 + target's BAB + target's level. Also, using modify combat style doesn't take an action, right? I was a little unsure.
Hey Interpol, wanted to get back to you on this one. I modified the DC to 10 + the opponent's base attack bonus. This is a nice compromise, as I figured that at high levels, you'd be looking at insanely high DCs (35-40 range). I figured that 10 + the target's BAB would give a nice middle ground. Even at 20th level, the max DC would be 30.
Jedi Steve-OP.S. I'll be posting a bunch of little fixes as we go. I also created a new branch of feat tree called Strategist, Master Strategist, and Military Genius.
Addiction (specific drug)
Prereqs: You must have used the specific Drug for atleast a month continuously, or somethings else as agreed upon by the GM and the player
Benefits: As long as you continue to use your choice drug, you suffer no short term ill effects from it (although you still experience the High, the Trip, etc. etc.). But you will still suffer the long term ill effects from your chosen drug (i.e. "permafrying", stained lips, etc. etc.). Also the Benefits of the Drug itself are amplified for you, adding a +2 to any benefits that it may grant. But If you go for more than a day without for chosen drug you begin to suffer a -1 to all rolls, which compounds for each missed day of use.
Immunity (specific drug)
Prereqs: You must have been exposed to the specific drug for a prolonged time and survived the experience without the help of others (i.e. made ALL your saving throws), Or something else as agreed upon by the GM and the player, Or like a Constitution of like 17 or something?
Benefits: Whenever you are exposed to the specific drug, you recieve a +20 to your fortitude saving throw to resist it, this stacks with any other bonus's and your natural fortitude.
Truthsaying [BG]
Prereqs: skills equal to BG 2 roughly ?? (sound good?)
Benefits: Whenever someone attempts to lie to you, make a sense motive check vs their Bluff as usual. But you are granted a +5 bonus to this check, and instantly recongnize the fact they are lying, and to what extent, if you succed at your check.
Secret Things [BG]
Rereqs: skills equal to BG 5 roughly, AND Truthsaying ?? (sound good?)
Benefits: You know some of the secrets of the BG, because your teacher has decided to reveal them to you, As such you receive a +3 reputation bonus when dealing with other BG's, and a +3 bonus to Prana/Bindu checks. (Not Really sure How to Handle this one)
Ways of the Dark Mother [BG]
Prereqs: skills equal to BG 7-9 roughly, AND must have received "memories" from a Reverend Mother, AND Secret Things (sound good?)
Benefits: You know the most intimate secrets of the BG, although no one truely knows them all, because you have begun to hear the Inner voices. As such you recieve a +5 reputation bonus when dealing with other BG's, and a +5 bonus to Prana/Bindu checks. (Not Really sure How to Handle this one)
Latent Prescience (Initial)
Prereqs: Mother must have been a BG, and have trained you in the ways in Prescience OR must have been trained in the ways of a Navigator (I think this is right, but I can't remember 100% who all uses Prescience)
Benefits: You have some understanding of Prescience, even if you don't relize it yet, you make have prescience skills and feats (I'm guessing thats how your going to treat them)
Renegade House
Prereqs: This feat must either be taken as an initial feat, OR be awarded by the GM. It cannot be taken by any other means.
Benefits: You and your family are currently Hunted, and as such you recieve a Infamy reputation bonus of +10. Most people in the Imperium will recognize you with time, where as Major or Minor House members will recognize you instantly.
Noble Title
Prereqs: This feat must either be taken as an initial, OR be awarded by the GM. It cannot be taken by any other means.
Benefits: You come from a Noble family, either a Major or Minor House, or the Emperor, or a House Major has awarded you the title of a Noble. Either way, you gain a +1 reputation bonus if from a minor house, and a +2 reputation bonus if from a major house.
Anyway, I'll try some more once you tell me what you think of those, and yes I know my prereqs don't really involve much in numbers. Its just in the campaigns I lead I tend to create feats on the fly and use Prereqs like these because I feel they are more cenematic, and make the feats more personal. So if you want numbers for the Prereqs I hate to say it but you might wanna look to others. Also, I know that some of these may not be 100% acurate, so please forgive me, they are just a first run, When I make feats I usually work with the Player I'm making them with, so together we design them ^_^.
ALSO, Jedi, if you have the Urban Arcana book there is a Swashbuckler class in there, also an Archaic Weaponsmaster, and a few others I think you might enjoy a look at (not too many though, just a few... :P)
also if you wanna compile some kind of list of vehicles(with some kind of description so I can understand the vehicle a little) in the Dune universe, I can prolly create statlines for them using the d20 future and modern books. and to use them you just use the rules from each respective book.
"Sardaukar: The soldier-fanatics of the Padishah Emperor... At the apex of their sway over the affairs of the Universe, their swordsmanship was said to match that of the Ginaz tenth level and their cunning abilities at in-fighting were reputed to approach those of a Bene Gesserit adept."
I've seen one or two references that seem to treat in-fighting like some kind of special BG martial arts, but I haven't been able to find any more information on it elsewhere. I was wondering if anyone in the D20 Dune braintrust could enlighten me on this one. If it is a style of fighting, this could be a cool weirding feat of some kind.
Basically, you'd cross-reference the loyalty of the given settlement with the result of the skill check (not sure if inciting a crowd to riot would require Diplomacy or Perform (Oratory) or what... maybe even a feat/class ability). This would give you the dice rolled to determine the number of disaffected citizens you manage to attract. This number would be multiplied by the size of the settlement to arrive at the total number of pyons you manage to whip into a frenzy.
Obviously there are a lot of factors that need to be filled in, but I thought this might be an interesting addition to the standard D20 core rules, both for Dune and even in a general sense as well.
Example (with random numbers): Ulrik the would-be Atreides demagouge enters Carthag and attempts to stir up trouble amongst the citizenry. Because Carthag is Happy with Harkonnen Rule, he will need at least a 25 on his check to succeed in attracting the minimum of 2D6 people. Scoring a critical success, his total check is 32, enough to attract 6D6 people. Because Carthag is a megapolis (I think), this number is doubled, so that in the end Ulrik attracts a crowd of [6D6]x2 pyons. What he does with said crowd, and how the Harkonnen authorities react to it are left to the imagination.
"Sardaukar: The soldier-fanatics of the Padishah Emperor... At the apex of their sway over the affairs of the Universe, their swordsmanship was said to match that of the Ginaz tenth level and their cunning abilities at in-fighting were reputed to approach those of a Bene Gesserit adept."
I've seen one or two references that seem to treat in-fighting like some kind of special BG martial arts, but I haven't been able to find any more information on it elsewhere. I was wondering if anyone in the D20 Dune braintrust could enlighten me on this one. If it is a style of fighting, this could be a cool weirding feat of some kind.
in·fight·ing n.
- Contentious rivalry or disagreement among members of a group or organization: infighting on the President's staff.
- Fighting or boxing at close range.
Not sure on this one... I always took it to mean competition within the ranks, i.e. the struggle for power within the BG Order (or between legions of Sardaukar) but looking at it now -- I suppose it would mean that the Sardaukar are close quarter combatants on par with the Bene Gesserit. Interesting implications for both organizations.
I designed a few combat-specific feats for the Bene Gesserit that target nerves, etc. with Prana Strike, Bindu Strike, and others, and something for the Sardaukar called Suicidal Charge... hmmm... I'll have to ponder this one. Suggestions?
Food for thought: Do we actually need new feats -- or can a combat-focused class like the Sardaukar suffice with the existant combat feats (Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Sunder, Dodge, Mobility, Whirlwind Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Martial Arts, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, etc.)
Steve-OOn another note... Please forgive my bad take on the BG feats above, I'm currently re-reading DUNE and seeing the flaws in my attempt at those feats...
Hey Talmeth, I'm really enjoying a fresh perspective on the whole Dune universe. I, too, am currently re-reading DUNE and noticing [and taking notes on] all sorts of little details (like glow tabs inside a stilltent...) that I'd forgotten. Keep those suggestions coming -- that's how progress is made.
Steve-ORabble Rouser
You are a master agent provocateur, skilled in agitation and whipping the masses into a frenzy.
Prerequisite: Charisma 13+
Benefits: You gain a +4 to all X checks to sow dissent and the dice rolled to determine your number of followers are increased by one step (A D6 becomes a D8, ect).
Also, I was thinking along the same lines as far as creating a separate skill. I figured you could call it Oratory or Rhetoric. It would be used to inspire emotions (similar to the compelling performance idea I floated a while back or D&D's Bardic music), incite riots as above and probably one or two other things as well. Given the high politics feel of Dune, I think this would be a natural addition.
Rabble Rouser
You are an adept agent provocateur, skilled in agitation and whipping the masses into a frenzy.
Prerequisite: Charisma 13+
Benefits: You gain a +2 to all X checks to sow dissent and the dice rolled to determine your number of followers are increased by one step (Your d4 becomes a d6).
Normal: You may only use d4's when determining followers
Incite the Masses
You are even more skilled at causing agitation and whipping the masses into a frenzy of rioting and killing
Prerequisite: Rabble Rouser, Charisma 14+
Benefits: You gain an additional +2 to all X checks to sow dissent and the dice rolled to determine your number of followers are increased by one step ( Your d6 becomes a d8).
Voice of the Masses
You are master agent provocateur, skilled in agitation and whipping the masses into a frenzy.
Prerequisite: Incite The Masses, Charisma 15+
Benefits: You gain an additional +2 to all X checks to sow dissent and the dice rolled to determine your number of followers are increased by one step (Your d8 becomes a d10). Also you may attempt to recruit a single person (equal to half your Level) to act as your right hand.
Well what do you think? I dunno if I like the increase in the Charisma requirement, I mostly put it in there to make the person have to work for the feat a little more, maybe I could lower it a little? Anyway, I hope you enjoyed my take on your feat suggestion... ^_^
It also just occurred to me that raising the mob might be a good alternative use for the Command skill, depending on how broadly it is going to be defined.
Very good work, Jedi-O!! :-)
I´m interested in the PDF...
e-mail: [email]ginobushi@yahoo.es[/email]
Thanx :D !
Thanks for the compliments, but wait till you see the complete document... I'm very proud of how the progress is going.
And thanks to Talmeth as he literally took the words right out of my mouth. I'll post up a PDF when it's all done and then you can all do with it what you will. I'm not necessarily condoning downloading, but I realize some people do it. :D
As Talmeth said, you are welcome to suggest any ideas for the game, as I could use all the help I can get. Jump on board and welcome to the d20 DUNE threads!
Jedi Steve-OAlly
You, or your family, have an ally whom you can request aid from, this aid can come in the form of solaris, troops, or even simple advise. Although this ally may request your aid from time to time also...
Benefits: To make a request of an ally, the player rolls a d20 and adds his Diplomacy to the result. The GM assigns a DC to the request, based on the difficulty and how expensive it is. If the player succeeds, then the request arrives d10 standard days later. Although an ally may request aid from time to time also, and if its denied, then you may lose your ally, unless you can give a good reason as to why you couldn't render aid.
Patron
You have a Patron, who will request favors and jobs from you, and as such this patron will cover expenses required for these favors and jobs, and also any living expenses.
Benefits: You may have modest living quarters and modest equipment is provided. But you are required to perform any favors or jobs required by your patron, also your patron will cover any expenses for such jobs. Also once you acomplish your task your Patron will pay you in some kind of way, as determined by your GM. The task may be finished In-game or may be finished by rolls during down time.
Information Network
You have access to an information Network of spies or just a group of people who have information on all kinds of different people. You just have to know who to pay.
Benefits: At any time, you may attempt to contact your Information Network by peforming a gather information check, depending on the area the GM assigns a DC to find a member of your Information Network. If you can locate a Member of your network then you tell the GM what information your looking for and the GM assigns a Wealth DC to the amount. The GM decides from the result what information is discovered.
Weirding Combat
You have been trained to use the Weirding Way in combat circumstances. Also you have been trained in the combat way and abilities of the Weirding Way.
Benefits: You may use any of the Combat related Weirding feats and skills. In addition, any checks you make during combat involving the Weirding Way are made at a +1.
Spice Diet
You have begun to consume Melange on a daily basis, you have blue-on-blue eyes, and milky teeth. If you have any Prescience talent it is increased, your resistance to poisons is increased, and your lifespan is increased.
Prerequisites: You must consume 2 grams of Melange on a daily basis.
Benefit: Thanks to your blue-on-blue eyes you gain a +2 bonus to Spot checks in a Desert environment. If you have any Prescience talent, any checks are made with a +2 bonus. When making a fortitude save versus poisons, such checks are made with a +2 bonus, also you may add d20 years onto your lifespan as per GM's discression. If ever you go without melange for more than a week, you will start to grow week(-2 to all physical stats), and after a Month will go into withdrawls(-4 to all physical stats). All of this may be countered by taking atleast 5 grams of Melange, otherwise within a month and a half of no use you will automatically die (no save allowed)
okay guess well this is my second attempt at some feats from the list, please tell me what you think honestly... the only one I think might be too over powered is the last one, but I figured that the cost of melange (except on dune) would counter-balance these benefits, and the fact that with no use you will die. so tell me what you think.
Originally posted by Talmeth
Okay Jedi, I'm gonna take another try at some feats...
Ally
You, or your family, have an ally whom you can request aid from, this aid can come in the form of solaris, troops, or even simple advise. Although this ally may request your aid from time to time also...
Benefits: To make a request of an ally, the player rolls a d20 and adds his Diplomacy to the result. The GM assigns a DC to the request, based on the difficulty and how expensive it is. If the player succeeds, then the request arrives d10 standard days later. Although an ally may request aid from time to time also, and if its denied, then you may lose your ally, unless you can give a good reason as to why you couldn't render aid.
This is cool! I thought there was already an Ally feat, but I can't find it or figure out which d20 game it was in. C'est la vie. I like this one, though -- finally using Diplomacy for something other than bribery. Very nice. I'm a big fan of using skills in new and creative ways. I might suggest a look at the Favor class ability of Nobles, to see if this is too similar, but an ally might be closer to a Contact. Very nice.
Patron
You have a Patron, who will request favors and jobs from you, and as such this patron will cover expenses required for these favors and jobs, and also any living expenses.
Benefits: You may have modest living quarters and modest equipment is provided. But you are required to perform any favors or jobs required by your patron, also your patron will cover any expenses for such jobs. Also once you acomplish your task your Patron will pay you in some kind of way, as determined by your GM. The task may be finished In-game or may be finished by rolls during down time.
This one could be very useful to a creative and/or devious GM. Free stuff is good. But there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
Information Network
You have access to a network of spies or informants who have information on all kinds of different people. You just have to know who to pay.
Benefits: At any time, you may attempt to contact your Information Network by peforming a Gather Information check, depending on the area the GM assigns a DC to find a member of your Information Network.
If you can locate a Member of your network then you tell the GM what information your looking for and the GM assigns a Wealth DC to the amount. The GM decides from the result what information is discovered.
Yes! Another way of creatively re-working old skills for new uses! I'll want to put more detail into this, specifically, exactly what DC to assign, what Wealth DC, etc.
Weirding Combat
You have been trained to use the Weirding Way in combat circumstances. Also you have been trained in the combat way and abilities of the Weirding Way.
Benefits: You may use any of the combat-related Weirding feats and skills. In addition, any checks you make during combat involving the Weirding Way are made at a +1.
Cool. I'm still working out all the features of the Bene Gesserit class (and the exact nature of the Weirding Way) but I'll definitely keep this one handy.
Spice Diet
You have begun to consume melange on a daily basis, you have blue-on-blue eyes, and milky teeth. If you have any Prescient talent, it is increased, your resistance to poisons is increased, and your lifespan is increased.
Prerequisites: You must consume at least 2 grams of melange on a daily basis.
Benefit: Thanks to your blue-on-blue eyes you gain a +2 bonus to Spot checks in a Desert environment. If you have any Prescience talent, any checks are made with a +2 bonus. When making a Fortitude Save vs. poison, such checks are made with a +2 bonus, also you may add d20 years onto your lifespan as per GM's discretion.
If ever you go without melange for more than a week, you will start to grow weak (-2 to all physical stats), and after a month will go into withdrawls(-4 to all physical stats).
All of this may be countered by taking atleast 5 grams of melange, otherwise within a month and a half of no use you will automatically die (no save allowed).
This one is pretty much covered with the general rules for spice addiction, but I like where you've gone with this. A very powerful feat, but with very serious drawbacks.
Cool. Well, all this has inspired me to include some new stuff from d20 DUNE. Enjoy...
NEW FEATS!
Arterial Strike [Combat]
Your sneak attacks target large blood vessels, leaving wounds that cause massive blood loss.
Prerequisites: Sneak attack ability, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: If you hit with a sneak attack, you may choose to forgo +1d6 of extra sneak attack damage to deliver a wound that won’t stop bleeding. Each wound caused in this manner saps an extra point of damage per round from the victim, until the victim receives the benefit of a DC 15 Treat Injury check. Wounds from multiple arterial strikes result in cumulative bleeding loss (two successful arterial strikes cause an extra 2 points of damage per round until healed). You may deliver only one bleeding wound per successful sneak attack.
Truthsaying [Weirding]
You have been trained to notice the minute signs of deception, and recognize the truth when you hear it.
Benefit: You may add your Weirding-level to your Sense Motive checks to determine if the character is lying, telling a half-truth, or if the target truly believes what they are saying.
NEW OCCUPATIONS!
Bureaucrat
Bureaucrats are skilled at navigating the systems, networks, and confusing arrays of rules and regulations inherent in galactic corporate and political processes. They may be helpful or obstructive depending on where they work and with whom they’re dealing, but they always know how to get things done.
Bureaucrats include Guild representatives, water merchants, smugglers, Guild Bank functionaries, mentats, and anyone else in involved in keeping the wheels of business turning.
Prerequisite: Age 23+.
Skills: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If a skill the character selects is already a class skill, he or she receives a +1 competence bonus on checks using that skill.
Bluff, Craft (writing), Diplomacy, Forgery, Gather Information, Knowledge (business, civics, current events, history, or popular culture), Listen, Research, Sense Motive, or add a new Read/Write Language or a new Speak Language.
Bonus Feat: Select either Educated or Renown.
Wealth Bonus Increase: +2.
Politico
Politicos are born deal makers. They are drawn to situations where money, goods, and power are bartered, and they are people without whom deals cannot be made. Politicos include negotiators, lobbyists, agents, judges, politicians, and other people who make their livings by getting groups or individuals to come to terms and consummate deals.
Prerequisite: Charisma 13+.
Skills: Choose two of the following skills as permanent class skills. If the skill you select is already a class skill, you receive a +1 competence bonus on checks using that skill.
Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (behavioral sciences, civics, current events, history, popular culture, or theology & philosophy), Listen, Research, Sense Motive, or add a new Read/Write Language or a new Speak Language.
Bonus Feat: Select one of the following: Renown, Trustworthy, or Windfall.
Reputation Bonus Increase: +1.
Wealth Bonus Increase: +3.
Well... that's it for now... Bi-la Kaifa!
Steve-O...The other place I'm willing to help out in is the Vehicles Chapter...
Not to worry, Talmeth, you've definitely secured a place in the credits... Assistant Designer, at least.
Okay, guys, here's what I need: A list of vehicles from DUNE. (Go ahead and include video games, prequel novels, sequel novels... the works. Go nuts.:D)
Ornithopters are a natural... but what else? Guild Heighliners, Harvesters, Carry-Alls, ...anyone... Bueller?... Bueller?
Steve-OP.S. Yes -- You still owe me your interpretation of the spice/worms/Water of Life...
Vehicle list: Ornithopters, Guild Heighliners, Ixian Hieghliners (Not Very Different, but I figured they'd be improved) , Harvesters, Carry-alls, Kindjal Fighters (might not be even real, game or otherwise, but I could have sworn I saw reference to something like this.), frigates (surface to space transport ships, or used as weather satallites), hovercars (I remember references to those too), and then ofcourse the tanks and other such vehicles from the games.....
The Worm/Spice relationship: From what I understood, It seemed almost that the worms had something of a Hive Mind, which was called Shai-Hulud, and there was A VERY LARGE WORM, the LARGEST of them all whom was also refered to as Shai-Hulud, I'm not 100% percent on how the little makers come into being but I suspect it has something to do with the Larger worms dying and spawning them off sorta like budding them. The pre-spice masses are created from the secretions of the little makers and the Makers themselves...although the spice itself is the thing that kinda baffles me, sometimes it just seems like a component to the Pre-Spice masses, although sometimes it reminds me of something akin to a mothers milk... although I'm not 100% certain on that... Also the Water of Life, is a secretion that a little makers body produces as a reaction to such a large amount of water being added to their system. (Mind you that when I read Herberts books I was much younger so I could have missed some clues, or even the explanation...but then again, this is just what I think now...)
also could you repost a list of feats or feat ideas that you want me to attempt at? And then my last question... When I make these vehicle stats, You want me to PM it to you or post it here?
Also, I was thinking along the same lines as far as creating a separate skill. I figured you could call it Oratory or Rhetoric. It would be used to inspire emotions (similar to the compelling performance idea I floated a while back or D&D's Bardic music), incite riots as above and probably one or two other things as well.
Sounds like a good candidate for a new Perform skill.
Wyvern
So. How soon till the PDF?
A few ideas (many of which have probably already been considered):
Ix and Tleilaxu (or at least Tleilaxu class) as a race or base class. They are, in later books especially, different enough to be their own race. They could act as artisens, creating weapons and objects.
Bene Geserit should not be female only - Reverend Mother, on the other hand should be. A Bene Geserit male could then go on to choose Mentat as a prestige class, such as Miles Teg who was trained at a Bene Geserit mentat school. (also I haven't seen any NPC's like Paul, Jessica, or anyone statted out).
Sorry if any of this seems really redundant, but this thread is 12 pages long and it would take hours to read... (see my point! You need a SRD or PDF!)
I've read just a little of this thread and I will definetly be interested in GMing a Dune D20 campaign.
Yay! Thanks for the interest, Edward.
Thus far its too jumbled to even approach. You need a PDF or at least an SRD.
Definitely. Man, it's like you're psychic or something. :D Actually, that's probably the most frequently asked question on this thread -- "When is the PDF gonna come out?!" I know. I know... All I can say is that I'm working on it and I want it completed just as much as you. Trust me.
A few ideas (many of which have probably already been considered):
Ix and Tleilaxu (or at least Tleilaxu class) as a race or base class. They are, in later books especially, different enough to be their own race. They could act as artisans, creating weapons and objects.
This is an idea I've been playing with for a while, actually. I'm of the mind that I'd like to expand at a later date, but for now -- for the 1st edition, if you will -- I'm keeping the playable race to Human only. If only for simplicity's sake and the sake of my sanity.
Bene Geserit should not be female only - Reverend Mother, on the other hand should be. A Bene Geserit male could then go on to choose Mentat as a prestige class, such as Miles Teg who was trained at a Bene Geserit mentat school. (also I haven't seen any NPC's like Paul, Jessica, or anyone statted out).
The Bene Gesserit class does have the following prerequisite: Female only, or GM's approval. This little bit keeps it mostly female, and any males wishing to advance in that class must cooperate with the GM.
Secondly, I'm so glad you mentioned Miles Teg! Personally, he's my favorite character from the books and there will definitely be rules to build a character similar (or even stronger?) than the famed Bashar.
Sorry if any of this seems really redundant, but this thread is 12 pages long and it would take hours to read... (see my point?! You need a SRD or PDF!)
No need for apologies, Edward. I'm just having a moment here...
I'm totally blown away that this thread has lasted as long as it has and that it's momentum is still going. Twelve pages?! Wow. I'm unbelievably stoked that this game is at the state it's in. I'm excited for you guys, too. The wait will be worth it -- just hang in there with me.
Steve-OOh well. Next question: Gholas!
This might have been answered a few pages back, but will being a Ghola be a) supported and b) a race selection or a template?
If the character in question is a freshly-grown ghola that doesn't have serial memory access (and who knows whether or not those filthy tleilaxu can grow gholas from base material with no template to draw on) it'd seem to make more sense to have it be a template. E.G: a normal set of skills but a few extra easter eggs (like a -4 on will saves to resist special compulsions or Bene Tleilax command language) and perhaps access to a few ranks of skills that would not otherwise be known.
On the other hand, if the ghola is drawn from existing cell samples, how would that be done? The attributes would likely remain the same, but before they gain access to serial memories, they wouldn't have any of their old class levels. But then when they regain their old memories... uh.. how?
Best example: good old Idaho, ca Dune Messiah. The Hayt ghola was probably trained with a few levels of Smart and Dedicated hero and then given a happy dosage of Mentat levels. Then the compulsion to kill Paul comes up and, rather than do that, his old personality reasserts itself. Everything I gathered seemed to indicate that he didn't lose any of the skills or knowledge that he'd acquired while he was "Hayt" and not "Idaho". So does that mean that all those levels of Strong/Fast/Tough/Swordmaster come rushing right back and layer themselves on top of his mentat levels? That's probably like 10 levels in the span of a few seconds... that seems like it would be sorta hard to simulate in d20 terms...
...And now... Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages... help me welcome... the one... the only... HEDGEHOG! 
Next question: Gholas!
This might have been answered a few pages back, but will being a Ghola be a) supported and b) a race selection or a template?
Hey, Hedgehog... first of all, sorry if you didn't feel acknowledged. As a personal touch, I try to welcome all the new members the first time they post to this thread. [Emphasis on TRY. It doesn't always work out that way, but I like the community feel.]
And now in answer to your question:
a) yes.
b) template.
I'm treating gholas much like clones.
I'll cut and paste here from the current rule set:---------------------
GHOLA [CLONE]
The Bene Tleilax, known across the universe as master cloners, created the perfect soldiers when they cloned Duncan Idaho and altered his genetic material to create the gholas for Leto II.
The clones created by the Tleilaxu can have their genetic structure altered to suit the owner, such as being more efficient in combat and more willing to follow orders and take commands. This was the perfect combination for the ghola clones, who needed to be totally obedient to God Emperor Leto II, while at the same time effective and durable soldiers. Other clones might either be genetically altered or exact replicas of their hosts. The Tleilaxu and a few others knew how to create clones that did not suffer from mental instability, but those who lacked such knowledge often saw their results tainted with everything from paranoia to complete insanity.
Vitality Points: Same as the base character or by class.
Speed: Same as the base character or by class.
Defense: Same as the base character or by class.
Damage: Same as the base character or by class.
Special Qualities: Same as the character or by class.
Saves: +2 bonus on Fortitude saves, –2 penalty on Will saves.
Abilities: A clone created from an unaltered genetic specimen must have Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores equal to or greater than the character it is cloned from. A clone created from an altered genetic specimen can have any set of attributes normally allowed.
Skills and Feats: Same as the base character or by class.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Try that one out...
...compulsions or Bene Tleilax command language...
Mental note: Bene Tleilax as a sub-race for NPCs? Add Bene Tleilax command language to list of known languages.
Jedi Steve-OAs for the tleilaxu, it seems like only the "Hidden Masters" would be an NPC race. I got the impression that they were like a circle of combination doctorate researchers and islamayit holy men. There were "normal" humans among the tleilaxu. I mean, someone has to pitch sales, train mentats, and deliver gholas and slig-burgers to customers. Recall also the tleilaxu ambassador that Leto II had flogged. All descriptions gave me the impression that he wasn't a little shifty-eyed gnome-looking git with pointy teeth.
As for the command language, it was a sort of wierd buzzing/chirping noise that Waf made to command the face dancers (except for the one that impersonated the high priest), and presumably would work just as well on conditioned gholas. It's open to debate if the normal tleilaxu would know more than a fraction of this (eg: "Quit goofing off. Carry those crates." as opposed to "Impersonate the Count's personal courtesan and report his comings and goings as well as all contacts with house Moritani.")
EDIT: oh yeah, I don't think there's any way in 'ell that someone outside the tleilaxu society would know this language.
And what about those poison dart launchers that Waf had hidden in his sleeves in Heretics?
By the way... nobody ever really responded to my posts way back about mass combat between landsraad soldiers... anyone have any agreeing or opposing views?
Just wanted to comment on a couple of things...
EDIT: oh yeah, I don't think there's any way in 'ell that someone outside the tleilaxu society would know this language.
Yeah, I've got a couple languages like that. Languages with prerequisites such as House Atreides Battle Language or Fremen Field Language or Bene Gesserit Sign Language, etc. The Tleilaxu Command Language would definitely fall under this section.
And what about those poison dart launchers that Waf had hidden in his sleeves in Heretics?
Oooh... good point! I've added these as a ranged thrown weapon with separate rules for poison damage.
By the way... nobody ever really responded to my posts way back about mass combat between Landsraad soldiers... anyone have any agreeing or opposing views?
Hmmm... refresh my memory... which message? I'd love (and by "love" I mean LOVE!) to hear a proposal for mass-combat rules. This is the one area where I feel that the d20 ruleset just collapses horribly into a twitching mound.
Jedi Steve-OYeah, I've got a couple languages like that. Languages with prerequisites such as House Atreides Battle Language or Fremen Field Language or Bene Gesserit Sign Language, etc. The Tleilaxu Command Language would definitely fall under this section.
I don't think the Atreides have a monopoly on battle language. Every great house seems to have a variant of it (I think the generalized term is "Bhotani Jib"). Of course, each one would be a seperate language, so it'd take a dedicated espionage player indeed to want to sink ranks into more than one...
Hmmm... refresh my memory... which message? I'd love (and by "love" I mean LOVE!) to hear a proposal for mass-combat rules. This is the one area where I feel that the d20 ruleset just collapses horribly into a twitching mound.
Ehhh... heh heh
uhm... I didn't actually propose any sort of mass combat rules, but just expressed a view as to how non-shield combat takes place between the non-elite rank-and-file grunts who make up the bulk of landsraad fighting forces. It's back on page 3.If there are poison darts life Waff's there needs to be a snooper item or a "detect hidden weapons" feat.
How about something like this:
Hidden Weapon Sense [General]
You know a few tricks about concealed weapons and have a good idea of how to spot them.
Prerequisite: Sleight of Hand 2 ranks
Effect:You gain a +4 circumstance bonus to Search and Spot checks made to find concealed weapons on another character. This bonus does not apply to Search checks for other items, like hidden messages, valuables, shield generators, and the like.
In regards to snoopers though it's important to remember they don't pick up weapons. They detect poisons or other biologicals and contaminants. I'm not sure on the specific workings of them (though the dune encyclopaedia may offer some info) but I'm assuming they:
a) Work like a Suk scanner in that they detect any substances harmful to the human biology. (Point: Remember to add Suck Medical scanners as items - instant identification of diseases and should grant a bonus to Heal checks to take care of a patient.)
b)They simply store a catalogue of the molecular make up of known poisons. In which case if one can make a new poison the snooper shall not detect it.
Given the technology of the duniverse I'm assumign itd operate more like the suk scanners. However it is important to note that there WERE poisons which were completely undetectable. Come to think of it though you could easily assume that the Dune - Dune Messiah snoopers were molecular catalogues and that the later Heretics and Chapter House technology were suk scanner like.
Other technology to consider.
In Heretics and Chapter House the buttlerian jihad limits of technology are almost nonexistant. Guild Navigators are being replaced by Ixian mechanical navigators. There are Life Sensors which pick up biological activity (Heretics points out that you can actually feel the scanning so perhaps a Spot check to notice you are being scanned). Its also imperative to note that post-leto the technology of shields is considered almost antique. This suggests that shields have lost their major presence. Makes a lot of sense considering the prevalent use of Lasguns in the Heretics book.
Side note but I like explaining things. In a way the Dune universe is a mirror of Earth history. As the planets are first settled there is a dark age - the machine wars. After this a medieval society develops and experiences a massive cultural surge with the discovery of spice and thus easier travel. Yet travel is still costly and thus worlds remain feudal olagarchies. In a way Leto's oppressive control is similar to the Elizabethan era with its strict religious and social controls. This prompts a massive exploration of the world as people reach out to fidn new worlds and lands. Heretics and Chapter House reflect our modern world. There are no more houses, no more feuding families. The known galaxy has been explored and ixian technology allows navigation through foldspace without the need for costly spice. More then that spice can now be reproduced scientifically. There are no more shield and knife fighting and wars are fought with lasguns and stunners, planetary bombardments and no-ships.
In my opinion it's important to remember this when considering the feel of the campaign. Dune is a world of feudalism and planets owned by ruling families. Chapter House on the other hand is a world where anything is possible and nothing is certain, technology and human evolution have reached amazing new heights and the traditions are slowly falling away much as is happening in our world now. So look to the matching earth events when designing your campaigns. You'll find your campaigns will become all the more real in their interpretation of the dune universe.
(Side point - this is where Brian Herbert screwed up. One sometimes wonders if he actually read or took notes from his fathers books. Ah well.)
), that were made before he (Frank) had completely fleshed out the Dune-verse.Also, when Waff and the Honored Matre (possibly a prestige class for Heretics and Chapterhouse campeigns?) were talking, I remember him being afraid that her snoopers (or something) would find his weapons, but they couldn't because they had been chilled at near absolute zero.
I don't think the Atreides have a monopoly on battle language. Every great house seems to have a variant of it (I think the generalized term is "Bhotani Jib"). Of course, each one would be a separate language, so it'd take a dedicated espionage player indeed to want to sink ranks into more than one...
Indeed there is more than one battle language, Hedgehog. (Can I just call you "Hedge" or "Hog"?
) Once again, I'm a victim of details. There is a Battle Language for each noble House (major & minor) and some even have more than one.uhm... I didn't actually propose any sort of mass combat rules, but just expressed a view as to how non-shield combat takes place between the non-elite rank-and-file grunts who make up the bulk of Landsraad fighting forces...
Okay. 20 Bonus Cool points and an Assistant Designer credit to anyone who can come up with workable, useable rules for mass-combat. Go.
If there are poison darts life Waff's there needs to be a snooper item or a "detect hidden weapons" feat.
Hmmm... Well, I'm using projectile weapons like throwing darts, hunter-seekers, etc. but as far as a "detect hidden weapons" feat... I'm about at my limit of adding new feats. I'd consider a Suk or Mentat class ability that adds a bonus to Spot checks to seek out concealed weapons...
See I knew you'd like the swashbuckler duelist idea Steve-O.
And right you were, Arx. Excellent stuff and a great suggestion. I'm looking at combining the Swashbuckler classes from Urban Arcana and D&D Complete Warrior.
As for the possibilities of snoopers and scanners... I like the evolving technology levels here. Say if DUNE is PL 6 [lasguns, lasrifles, bio-agent ammunition, etc.] with some deviations then:
PL 6 could have Snoopers with a catalogue of poisonous substances, hence their fallibility.
PL 7 could have Snooopers that detect substances that would harm human biology (though this could be fooled, too).
As an aside, I loved your explanation of the Earth-mirror theory, Arx. It's important to remember that the DUNE universe (or Duniverse) is an evolving creature in its own right. It'll make the campaigns "feel" that much more authentic. Frank Herbert himself said that the scarcity of water in DUNE was an exact analogue to the scarcity of oil in the 70s. Much to think about...
Jedi Steve-OP.S. As to what Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson screwed up...
Side point - this is where Brian Herbert screwed up. One sometimes wonders if he actually read or took notes from his fathers books. Ah well...
I have a laundry list of things that I'm not pleased with as far as the prequel novels go, starting with them being written at all. Why mess with a good thing?
Steve-O[INDENT]A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct. This every sister of the Bene Gesserit knows...
[/INDENT]
INTRODUCTION: The year is 10,124 and the Imperium is in the firm grip of the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV. House Harkonnen has recently been given the fiefdom of Arrakis, and is imposing it's own brand of tyrrany there.
THE DEAL: I'm looking for 4 to 6 players, or two groups of 4 players each for a play-by-post. Send me your concepts and be willing to work with me to fit them all together.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU WANT TO PLAY: Send me a character write-up either by e-mail or private message. Keep it short but sweet. I'll be looking at your writing style (grammar & spelling, too) and depth of character. It isn't important that you know all the rules -- I'll give you those -- what is important is that you have a clear character concept and a driving goal.
Characters over combat, please. This is a DUNE adventure and while there will be combat, I am looking for RPers not just hacking and blasting (no offense). A short temper and a lasgun will only get you so far.
Books/Sources: All characters will be made using the d20 DUNE Roleplaying Game. What's that? You don't have that? Well, don't worry. I do... And if you play, you'll get access to the beta-version.
Races: All characters are human (though the Bene Gesserit might debate this).
Level: Characters begin play at the start of their career -- 1st level.
Ability Scores: 32 point-buy.
Starting Loyalty: Either FREMEN or NOBLE HOUSE.
So... who wants to play?
Jedi Steve-OThe Basics: Battles are fought in one of three arbitrary distances, each based on a broad category of weapons: support, firepower and shock. At a given distance, each unit will have different abilities and generals will have different tactical options. Movement between phases is based on maneuver. All actions are carried out by making Command checks; I'm thinking one action per turn per commander.
Maneuver: Moving from one phase to another is relatively easy (DC 10) unless opposed by a countermaneuver. Terrain, speed and force size contribute bonuses/penalties. A force can also disengage from battle by maneuvering out of support range.
Support: This phase represents long-range, indirect combat generally fought out with artillery and other heavy weapons. Given the nature of shield technology in the Dune universe, this is generally an uneventful phase, although gas weapons, deep desert combat and clever ideas (BAron Harkonnen's cave ploy) keep it from getting boring.
[INDENT]- Bombardment (DC 15): On a successful command check, all of the commander's support units may attack as normal. On a failure by five points or less, they attack at half strength. On a failure by more then five points, they deal no damage at all.[/INDENT]
[INDENT]- Counter Battery Fire (Response, DC 20): On a successful command check, all of the commander's support units may attack as normal, but all damage must be allocated against opposing support units that attacked in the previous turn. On a failure by five points or less, the counter battery attack is at half strength. On a failure by more then five points, the counter battery fire deals no damage at all.[/INDENT]
[INDENT]- Pinpoint Barrage (DC 30): This action may only be undertaken if the commander has at least one unit infiltrating the opponent's battle order. On a successful command check, all of the commander's support units may attack a single enemy unit chosen by the commander. On a failure the attack does no damage at all.[/INDENT]
Firepower: This is the direct-fire and small arms phase of the battle, involving maula pistols, lasguns, autorifles or whatever other man-portable weapons the combatants can drag to the battlefield.
[INDENT]- Engage (DC 10): On a successful command check, all of the commander's firepower units may attack as normal. On a failure by less then ten points, they attack at half strength. On a failure by more then ten points, they attack at half strength and lose one level of morale.[/INDENT]
[INDENT]- Skirmish (DC 15): On a successful command check, all of the commander's firepower units may attack at half strength and are not exposed to retaliatory fire. On a failure by less then five points, they attack at half strength, but take damage as normal. On a failure by more then five points, they deal no damage at all and lose one level of morale.[/INDENT]
Shock: The final phase of the battlefield represents hand-to-hand combat, thrown weapons and other short-range, up-close and personal methods of destruction (including flamethrowers for example).
[INDENT]- Engage (DC 10): On a successful command check, all of the commander's shock units may attack as normal. On a failure by less then ten points, they attack at half strength. On a failure by more then ten points, they attack at half strength and lose one level of morale.[/INDENT]
[INDENT]- Charge (DC 15): On a successful command check, all of the commander's shock units may attack and deal double normal damage, although they take double damage from any retaliatory attacks. On a failure by less then ten points, they attack as normal but still take double damage. On a failure by more then ten points, they deal no damage at all, take double damage and lose one level of morale.[/INDENT]
Special Actions
[INDENT]- Rally Troops (DC 20): On a successful command check, the morale level of the commander's troops increases by one. This cannot increase it beyond Eager during battle.[/INDENT]
[INDENT]- Secure Rear Area (DC Variable): On a command check that exceeds the stealth value of the target unit(s), you locate one or more infiltrating unit(s) in your own theatre of operations, who may then be attacked as a free action by your army.[/INDENT]
Special Abilities
[INDENT] - Scouts would provide a bonus to your own command checks as long as they remained in the opponent's rear area.[/INDENT]
[INDENT] - Commandos would penalize an opponent's command checks.[/INDENT]
[INDENT] - Assassins could target specific units, including commanders. [/INDENT]
[INDENT] - Certain units would cause fear or terror (kind of like in the Warhammer system), allowing them to rout individual units that faced them.[/INDENT]
Morale
A force has a collective morale level ranging from Impetuous->Eager->Steady->Wavering->Shaken->Panicked->Routing. Depending on their morale, units break at a different level of overall force morale. Fearless units fight to the death, units with low morale break at the wavering level.
Example Units
[INDENT]Harkonnen Conscripts: Maneuver 2, Support 0, Firepower 1, Shock 2; Shielded, Low morale.[/INDENT]
[INDENT]Sardaukar: Maneuver 4, Support 1, Firepower 3/LI2/LA5, Shock 7; Shielded, Terror, Low-Impact Weaponry, Lasguns, Fearless.[/INDENT]
[INDENT]Fremen: Maneuver 3, Support 0, Firepower 5/LI3, Shock 6; Low-Impact Weaponry, Desert Power, Stealth 25, Fearless.[/INDENT]
Other Stuff
[INDENT] - Given the relative ease of most command checks, as well as the number of them made in a typical battle, it would seem like a good benefit for the Military Genius feat would be: "You may take 10 on Command checks at any time or in any circumstances". [/INDENT]
Problems
The biggest one is how to actually resolve the results of combat; I'm leaning towards some kind of dice rolling vs ability mechanism, then allocating "hits" against individual units. Secondly, I'm thinking that this system could be difficult to use with large armies or if a commander attempts to split his forces (like if you want to leave your artillery behind at support range while the rest of the army moves up). I'm also not sure how to handle initiative and the number of actions a general can take in a given round. I'd be tempted to make it as many as he wants, but impose a progressively steeper penalty for each one past the first. I think this would be a good idea because it allows a military genius on Napoleon's level to be everywhere at once, or allow a neophyte to attempt the same thing, but they both incur risks in doing so.
Well, there it is. If nothing else, I hope if spurs interesting counterproposals from the rest of the gang.
i think i would be interested in playing
i would like to play a fremen waterman or someone dealing with the krisknifes if you happen to have any rules on that. regardless, lemme know if you have any more openings and i'll try to get some stuff to you soon.
peace
...i think i would be interested in playing. i would like to play a fremen waterman or someone dealing with the krisknives...
Hey MagicMarker, just send me a PM or email me with a character write-up. Don't worry about stats or numbers, just give me a short description of your character and his/her goals.
Steve-OJedi, I would love to join your play-by-post group, but I have just one question, Do the fremen have Liet or not, this will determine who/what I would want to play...
Hmmm... I'd have to check the timeline as to when Liet was assigned there, but I don't think so. Wasn't Pardot Kynes still the Planetologist in 10,124? Either way, I'd love to have you in the game, so let me know by sending a character concept whenever you can.
...also I'm still brainstorming on those vehicles and will post them a little later today or tomarrow most likely... The first batch of vehicles will just be guesses based on camparisions to other vehicles from the d20 Modern books...
Glad to hear it! I'll be looking forward to your "first approximation analysis" on the vehicles. A good jumping-off point, to be sure.
Steve-OEdit: On the Noble, I was hoping to play someones younger sibling (following the restrictions I put in the PM). Thats why I left it open-Ended.
Crew:20-30 Pass: 0 Cargo: 5,000lbs (Not actually sure) Init: -8 Maneuver: -8 Top Speed: 70(7) Defense:8 Hardness: 20 Hit Points: 150 Size: C
Well if you have modern compare this to an abrams tank and its almost the same, just upgraded hitpoints, and Cargo Space, also Crew is bigger...
Ornathopter
Crew: 1-2 Pass: 5 Cargo: 500 lbs (just a guess) Init: -4 Maneuver: -4 Top Speed: 360(36) Defense:8 Hardness: 5 Hit Points: 56 Size : G
I based this on a Helicopter so I'm not sure how well it will work... >_<
Carry-All
Crew: 2 Pass: 10 Cargo: 3,500 lbs (just a guess) Init: -4 Maneuver: -4 Top Speed : 250 (25) Defense: 6 Hardness:10 Hit Points: 48 Size: G
Basically a Slow Heavy carrier, again not sure how good it will work but this is still early attempts...
the starships will need to wait, as one of my players as my d20 future book which I will need to try to make somekind of good usable stat...
Anyway, Just compare these to the different vehicles of the d20 modern to try to get a feel for them....the rules for special abilities will come later...^_^
[INDENT]Malek, Fremen of Red Chasm Sietch
The first born son of the Water Master of the Red Chasm Sietch, Malek was born to kill Harkonnen. Trained from birth to despise the tyrant rulers of Arrakis, Malek has spent all 18 years of his life burning a special place of hate in his heart for them.
Along with his Sietch-brothers Tal’miet and Ardakos, Malek is part of a secret cherem sworn to take the life of every Harkonnen on Arrakis. They have vowed to leave no Harkonnen agent alive and Malek has a special talent for sniffing out Harkonnen agents in the pyon villages.
Tall and whipcord thin, Malek's spice-rich diet has given him deep blue-within-blue eyes that miss nothing. An accomplished Fremen, Malek is respected among his sietch-mates as a sandrider and killer of Harkonnen. He might even one day make a strong and noble Naib for his tribe -- if he lives that long.
Malek, Fremen 1; Medium-size human male; V/WP 12/14; Initiative +4 (+2 Dex, +2 Blooded); Speed 10m; DR 1/-; Defense 14 (+2 Dex, +2 class), flat-footed 12, touch 14; BAB +1; Grap +2; Atk +2 melee (1d3+1, unarmed) or +3 melee (1d6+1/19-20, masterwork crysknife); SQ Desert creature, Eyes of Ibad; SV Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +3; AL Fremen +1; AP 5; Rep +0; Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12. Height 1.9 m; Weight 77 kgs.
Starting Occupation: Tribal [Skills: Ride, Sense Motive, Survival, Feat: Track].
Skills [4/2]: Balance +2, Climb +1, Craft (crysknife) +3, Handle Animal (sandworm) +2, Hide +4, Listen +5, Move Silently +8 (desert), Ride +5 (sandworm), Sense Motive +5, Speak Gallach, Speak Fremen Field Language, Spot +10 (desert), and Survival +12 (desert).
Feats: Simple Weapons Proficiency, Track, Blooded, Quick Draw.
Possessions: Fremen stillsuit, Fremkit, jubba cloak, masterwork crysknife, various personal items.[/INDENT]
Hope you like him, he'll be around for a while. Questions? Comments? Concerns? Connundrums? Let me know.
Jedi Steve-O Jedi Steve-ONEW! Oath Feats (from Monte Cook’s Book of Hallowed Might)
Oath feats require a character to swear an oath, usually using the name of his god, although religious belief or faith is not necessary to draw on the power of an oath. There is power in a true oath, and those with real nobility learn to harness that power. To swear an oath, a character must first name a god, a creature who has given him an accolade, or a creature to whom he has sworn an oath of fealty (see the Accolade† or Oath of Fealty† feat descriptions). Then he names—very specifically—a task he will accomplish in no more than a year’s time. If he does not complete the task in that time, the person named in the oath suffers great shame, and—if mortal—a –1 morale penalty to attacks, saves, and checks for one month. After the oath is completed, or after the pledged time expires, he can swear a new oath.
Of course, a god does not look kindly upon being shamed in such a way and always takes appropriate retribution. This may involve stripping the oathbreaker of his class abilities, spellcasting abilities, or something similar. It is, at the very least, a curse that cannot be removed normally by a mortal
caster. The character can alleviate the effects of the god’s retribution only by completing a difficult quest and seeking atonement from one of the named god’s clerics of a higher level than his own. If no such cleric exists, the character must seek out an audience with the god himself (or a direct celestial representative).
Oath of Combat [Oath]
You swear an oath to accomplish a task, and you gain prowess in combat while undertaking that task.
Prerequisites: Wisdom 15+, Swear an Oath†
Benefit: You must swear an oath to activate this feat, using the oath swearing guidelines presented on the previous page. While the oath remains in effect, you gain an additional attack at your highest bonus every time you make an attack. For example, if you make three attacks in a full attack action, you make four using this feat. If you take only a standard attack action (making one attack) you make two attacks. The extra attacks are available only in combat pertaining to the fulfillment of the oath.
Special: The DM should be very strict in determining when a combat situation directly pertains to the fulfillment of the oath. For instance, say a character swears an oath to return a kidnapped high priest back to his abbey from imprisonment in the fortress of the Demon-Lich. Combat with the Demon-Lich’s vrock guards would earn the character this benefit. A barroom brawl back in town as the character equips herself for the adventure is not pertinent to the quest, nor is a fight ensuing from a random encounter with a pack of hungry griffons she met on the journey to the fortress.
Oath of Fealty [Oath]
You swear an oath to serve a particular individual or Noble House.
Prerequisite: Swear an Oath†
Benefit: You must swear an oath to activate this feat, using the oath swearing guidelines presented on the previous page, except that this oath carries no time limit.When swearing an oath of fealty to someone, you do so in the name of your deity or other higher power (see Swear an Oath, below). You swear to obey a particular individual’s edicts and commands, making that person your lord (also sometimes called a liege lord). You are this lord’s vassal and can now swear oaths in this character’s name. You gain a +4 circumstance bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate checks made against those who know of your lord and either respect or fear him.
You may only have one sworn oath of fealty at any given time.
Special: If you go on to commit an act your lord would think ignoble or improper, or you fail to obey his commands, you suffer a –1 morale penalty to attacks, saves, and checks until you have made things right in the eyes of your lord. During that time, you cannot use this feat. If your lord dies (and is not raised), you suffer a –1 morale penalty to attacks, saves, and checks for one month. During that time, you cannot use the benefits of this feat.
Swear an Oath [Oath]
You take an oath to accomplish a task, and gain luck while undertaking that task.
Prerequisite: Wisdom 15+
Benefit: To swear an oath, you must use the oath swearing guidelines presented on the previous page. Most oaths are sworn in the name of a deity. While the oath remains in effect, you gain a +1 luck bonus to saves and checks pertaining to the fulfillment of that oath. “By the power of Almighty Lothian, I swear to avenge the death of my father!” or “In the holy name of Yaheine, I swear to see that Castle Kimorran is regained from the forces of darkness.”
Special: The DM should be very strict in determining whether a save or check directly pertains to the fulfillment of the oath.
Opinions? Questions? Comments? Lemme know!
Jedi Steve-OHarvester
Crew:20-30 Pass: 0 Cargo: 35,000 lbs Init: -8 Maneuver: -8 Top Speed: 60(6) Defense:8 Hardness: 20 Hit Points: 150 Size: C
Ornithopter
Crew: 1-2 Pass: 5 Cargo: 15,000 lbs Init: -4 Maneuver: -4 Top Speed: 200(20) Defense:8 Hardness: 10 Hit Points: 56 Size : G
Carry-All
Crew: 2 Pass: 15 Cargo: 15,000 lbs Init: -4 Maneuver: -4 Top Speed : 150 (15) Defense: 6 Hardness:15 Hit Points: 48 Size: G
One general note for all stats, though: DUNE is metric. This was a decision I made a while back in keeping with the flavor and spirit of the original book.
I'm trying to keep the whole game consistently in metric measurements (meters, liters, grams, etc.) so I'll try re-working these stats.
OLD Harvester
Crew: 20-30; Pass: 0; Cargo: 5,000lbs (Not actually sure); Init: -8; Maneuver: -8; Top Speed: 70 (7); Defense: 8; Hardness: 20; Hit Points: 150; Size: Colossal.
NEW Harvester
Crew: 20-30; Pass: 0; Cargo: 35,000 lbs; Init: -8; Maneuver: -8; Top Speed: 60 (6); Defense: 8; Hardness: 20; Hit Points: 150; Size: Colossal
I like the bump to the Hardness rating. I was worried that 20 might be a little low.
OLD Ornithopter
Crew: 1-2; Pass: 5; Cargo: 500 lbs (just a guess); Init: -4; Maneuver: -4; Top Speed: 360 (36); Defense: 8; Hardness: 5; Hit Points: 56; Size: Gargantuan
NEW Ornithopter
Crew: 1-2; Pass: 5; Cargo: 15,000 lbs; Init: -4; Maneuver: -4; Top Speed: 200 (20); Defense: 8; Hardness: 10; Hit Points: 56; Size: Gargantuan
15,000 lbs of cargo might be a bit much. I was thinking something more along the lines of 1,000 lbs. [I keep remembering the scene with Duke Leto, Paul, Gurney and Dr. Kynes rescuing the men from the harvester and how seven passengers made them "heavy."] And I like that you upped the Hardness rating here.
OLD Carry-All
Crew: 2 Pass: 10 Cargo: 3,500 lbs (just a guess) Init: -4 Maneuver: -4 Top Speed : 250 (25) Defense: 6 Hardness:10 Hit Points: 48 Size: G
NEW Carry-All
Crew: 2 Pass: 15 Cargo: 15,000 lbs Init: -4 Maneuver: -4 Top Speed : 150 (15) Defense: 6 Hardness:15 Hit Points: 48 Size: G
Slower, can carry more and has more "hit" points. Exactly.
All in all, the new stats for these vehicles are much improved.
I should not as well: d20 DUNE uses vitality/wound points, so the vehicles should have something like "Hull Points" with a DR rating, if any.
Jedi Steve-OOn another note, I e-mailed my Characters stats, but I noticed some things in the d20une rules... the fremkit doesn't award anything, and the Jubba Cloak doesn't award anything... I think both should award Survival, and the Jubba should award hide (desert), and the fremkit should award something else... but make it so that you have to either be trained in them or be a fremen to get the benefits... ALSO, I relized fremen don't have their fast coagulation ability, OR a Treat Injury skill, just thought I'd point that out...anyway... Tell me what you think about all those points....
...I noticed some things in the D20une rules... the fremkit doesn't award anything, and the Jubba Cloak doesn't award anything... I think both should award Survival, and the Jubba should award hide (desert), and the fremkit should award something else... but make it so that you have to either be trained in them or be a fremen to get the benefits... ALSO, I relized fremen don't have their fast coagulation ability, OR a Treat Injury skill, just thought I'd point that out...anyway... Tell me what you think about all those points....
Hmmm... Fast coagulation ability. I just re-read the book and now that reminds me... 
Okay. It's definitely something to look at.As for what a Fremkit contains -- Let's go right to the source and "ask the horse." Here's the skinny straight from the DUNE Encyclopedia by Frank Herbert:
Unless contrary evidence is discovered, it will ahve to be assumed that this equipment made up a Fremkit:
Literjons, recaths, repkit, filtplugs, thumper, stilltent, sandsnork, sinkchart, paracompass, fire pillar, energy caps, binoculars, baradye pistol, maker hooks.
The [instruction] manual identifies each of these and mentions their general function. A complete kit, packed in a small bundle and cleverly fitted with shoulder straps, weighed in the vicinity of 10 kg.
As to what bonuses the Fremkit should provide, I'll take a closer look...
Jedi Steve-OOn another note, did you agree with my Idea that Tal`miet shouldn't have the Ride or Handle animal skills yet?
Well know that we know whats inside a fremkit I think it should award something like the field kit maybe? I dunno, maybe a Survival (Desert) +2 if properly trained in its use? eh, MAYBE the bonus.... but the Jubba Cloak should definately add a Hide +2 (desert) and maybe even a Survival +1 (desert) (i.e. protection from the desert elements...) ... Also I think that fremen should deffinately get Treat Injury as a skill, and that fast Coagulation, since Frank made it apparent they had that...
I'm considering the following bonuses:
- Fremkits should provide a +2 to Survival while in the desert
- Jubba Cloaks should give a +2 to Hide while in the desert
- Stillsuits (in addition to DR 1/-) should provide something like a +2 equipment bonus on Fortitude saves to resist severe weather (heat).
These are still rough ideas, though. I'll have to reconsider whether to add Treat Injury to the Fremen class skills, and what to do about including a Fast Coagulation ability to their (already considerable) inherent bonuses.
On another note, did you agree with my Idea that Tal`miet shouldn't have the Ride or Handle animal skills yet?
No problem with that. Given your specific background, it actually makes sense that he doesn't have ranks in those skills.
Remember that Ride can be still be used untrained, but Handle Animal cannot.
Jedi Steve-OMaker Hooks
Simple devices of Fremen design and manufacture, used to mount and direct sandworms for transportation. These grant a +4 to Ride checks to mount or control a sandworm. Ride checks made to mount or control a sandworm without maker hooks are attempted at –4.
The maker hooks weigh 2 lbs. each, and at least two are normally used when controlling a sandworm. They are not commonly available outside the sietch or Fremen community.
Oil-Lens Binoculars
These binoculars are personal magnification devices that can enhance vision up to one kilometer in most lighting conditions. An internal set of lenses allow for various focusing for zooming and wide-vision observation.
Oil-lens binoculars reduce the range penalty for Spot checks to -1 for every 10 meters of distance (instead of -1 every 4 meters).
Rope, Krimskell (see also, “Claw Fiber”)
A lightweight rope woven from strands of hufuf vine, a growth native to Ecaz, later successfully transplanted to Yorba. It was the rope of choice for bonds, snares and similar uses for many centuries owing to special properties of the vines from which it was produced.
Krimskell rope has 10 wound points, and can be burst by a DC 30 Strength check, taking 1 point of damage each round.
When used to secure a prisoner, provides a +5 DC against an opponent’s Escape Artist check. In addition, any failed attempt increases any further attempt’s DC by +2, cumulative.
Stillsuit
A water reclamation full-body garment of Fremen design and manufacture for survival on the Arrakeen desert. The garment allows desert survival by cooling the wearer and by preventing water loss. An unprotected man, without access to a staggeringly large water supply, can last no more than a day on the sands; one wearing a stillsuit of Fremen manufacture, however, can keep water loss under fifteen milliliters a day, a thimbleful. Less efficient versions of the suits produced in village factories by the Arrakeen pyons are inferior and offer no such level of protection.
All desert Survival rolls, when wearing a properly adjusted, Fremen stillsuit are at +4. Without a stillsuit, survival rolls in the desert are at -10. A Fremen stillsuit weighs 4 kgs., provides DR 1/-, but are not commonly for sale.
Jedi Steve-OI do have something to add. If you haven't already set a name for the "scientist" class I think it may have been right under your nose for a while. A few pages back there were some feat descriptions, I'm sorry I don't recall the author, and one of them was called Savant (I think). But could that be the potential name for the base class. I could apply to any field of study. If you've designed the class like the Tech Specialist in d20 Star Wars, you get to pick some of your own class skills, which would allow you to focus on a primary field of expertise. And what about Renegade for the "Rogue"ish class. Hope this helps some.
BTW, how many of the standard rules, feats, skills, etc. are incorporated straight from other d20 games (in percent, say)?
"Leto, was killed in 10,191 when the Baron took back Dune, and the revolt that killed the Baron Harkonnen(i.e. the year he died) occured in 10,193, and the Baron Harkonnen was born in 10,110 which means that he's about 14 right now... On another note, the Harkonnen have probably held Dune for no more than 10-15 years now. "
This is modified from an e-mail to one of my friends who kinda wants to join the play-by-post, she was trying to get a feel for when these event were happening (i.e. how much before Paul) since she isn't as in depth and doesn't have the Dune encyclopedia :p.
On another note, I'd like to welcome hellibrarian to the thread ^_^. And to save you some trouble Jedi I can answer his last question: Of the Standard rules incorporated to the d20une system, the standard combat is used, most of the standard feats are there (some are renamed), almost all the standard skills are used (I can't think of one that isn't used, but I could be wrong), Vehicle combat is the Same. Ofcourse these "Standards" come from a mix of Star Wars d20 and d20 modern/future, But Jedi and the team have added a whole slew of new feats and classes, a few new occupations, skills, a new kinds of psionic "powers" (i.e. Weirding, Prana-Bindu, the Voice), and even Shield Combat...
Let me just start with equal parts "thank you," and "I'm sorry" for reading the entire thread. It's refreshing when people don't just jump in and start asking the same questions I answered on each page of the thread.
Oh, and I swear I returned those books when they were due. Seriously.
Before I get into answering your post, thank your friend for pointing you to our little corner of the web. If you're as big a fan of DUNE as you say, perhaps you'd like to join our little on-line game? Spots are still open... Okay, enough self-promotion.
I do have something to add. If you haven't already set a name for the "scientist" class I think it may have been right under your nose for a while. A few pages back there were some feat descriptions, I'm sorry I don't recall the author, and one of them was called Savant (I think). But could that be the potential name for the base class? It could apply to any field of study. If you've designed the class like the Tech Specialist in d20 Star Wars, you get to pick some of your own class skills, which would allow you to focus on a primary field of expertise. And what about Renegade for the "Rogue"ish class. Hope this helps some.
Wow. Two great ideas in one paragraph. I'm currently just calling the scientist class "Scientist" and the rogue-ish class "Knave." I like Savant and Renegade, though. Nice job.
I had planned to design the Scientist/Savant class like the D&D 3.5 Ranger - choosing a path of either Engineer or Inventor.BTW, how many of the standard rules, feats, skills, etc. are incorporated straight from other d20 games (in percent, say)?
Geez... a percent? Um... if I was forced to be honest, I'd say 90-95% of it is all taken from other d20 games.
That's depressing for as much work as I've put into this thing... Though, in my own defense, I have designed my own base classes and several new feats. As for a source of where I've stolen... er, "borrowed" material from: Various parts of d20 Star Wars Roleplaying Game, d20 Future, d20 Modern, d20 Fading Suns, Spycraft, Mutants & Masterminds, Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, the old LUG DUNE: Chronicles of the Imperium, the Polyhedron d20 mini-games Iron Lords of Jupiter, V is for Victory, & Pulp Heroes, the Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game, and of course, good ol' Dungeons & Dragons... I'm sure there are others, but I'm tired.Like Goose said, "The list is long, but distinguished."
Well, thanks for posting. Thanks for the great ideas. Thanks for the good questions. Keep up with us and you, too can waste hours of an otherwise productive life here on the world wide web. :D
Jedi Steve-OP.S. Looking forward to seeing a character concept from you, Hellibrarian.
P.P.S. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the collective authors and copyright holders of the above games for not sending their frothing lawyers after us.
Geez... a percent? Um... if I was forced to be honest, I'd say 90-95% of it is all taken from other d20 games.
That's depressing for as much work as I've put into this thing...
My intention wasn't to depress you :D My reason for asking was to determine the learning curve for playing. This is a good thing. People will be able to play your game very quickly because they will already be very familiar with most of the elements of the system. As a suggestion, you could save yourself some work if you include a list of the feats that have been unchanged and only renamed for setting flavor , instead of rewriting the description. Unless you've already done it ;)
I've never played a play by post game before. Tell me how it works.
...People will be able to play your game very quickly because they will already be very familiar with most of the elements of the system. As a suggestion, you could save yourself some work if you include a list of the feats that have been unchanged and only renamed for setting flavor , instead of rewriting the description...
I'm afraid I wasn't that clever. I actually wanted to write everything out, so that you only needed one book to play the game -- much like the Star Wars Roleplaying Game. It's mostly new base classes (and new advanced/prestige classes) and new feats. A couple skills have changed (Computer Use, etc.) but for the most part, it's a compilation of things found in other games, (a Loyalty system in place of Alignment, a couple new Starting Occupations, just re-worked for the DUNE universe.
...I've never played a play by post game before. Tell me how it works.
Pretty simple stuff, actually. I'll set up a situation -- you react. Then I react to that. Back-and-forth. But slower, online. Posting one set of events at a time. It's cooperative roleplaying with the emphasis on ROLEplaying. If we need dice (for combat or whatever) I'll figure that out by comparing your stats to the NPCs. There's a couple online dice rollers if you're really picky, but usually it's character-intensive story building.
There's bound to be bunch of examples (and maybe even a few good ones) here on this very site.
Jedi Steve-OI know hellibrarian and glad to see him on the board here. I really like the Savant for a Engineer/Scientist/Tech Specialist/etc. class name. I also like Knave over Renegade as a Rogue-ish class name. Renegade sounds more like a rebel fighting against the great Houses. Although I guess Renegade fits better for those smuggler types Gurney was hanging with.
Wish I had time (in school for my MLIS -Masters in Library and Information Sciences) because I would love to play in Jedi Steve-O's game. Even had a cool character idea for a Fremen Knave, disguised as a cripple, spying on the Harkonnen and pretending to be a complete suck-up. (Thanks to Kevin Spacey for his role in The Usual Suspects for the idea)
Every time I come back I just get more and more excited about this effort. You are doing an incredible job Jedi Steve-O.
Thanks for the compliments! Keep 'em coming! :D No, seriously, I'm doing this so that we can ALL play d20 DUNE. I'm just as excited as it gets closer to being done.
I'm still letting the "Savant" title grow on me for the Science-based class, but I think I'll stick with "Knave" for the Rogue-type class.
So wait... you and Hellibrarian are really librarians? :D
Jedi Steve-OP.S. Does no one but Hedgehog want to play a Harkonnen?
- Tal
I'll let you know when it's more fleshed out.
Jedi Steve-OSo Jedi, I was reading some older posts again, and I was just thinking, I know I said that I would do the vehicles or at least attempt it... but I was thinking, if we were gonna set things up for the Bulterian Jihad, maybe we could create the machines as templates of some kind... or treat them as a race of sorts...
Thanks for the offer, but I'm gonna wait on the different eras for a little bit. I'm not ready for machine templates and such yet, but if you wanna work on a rough draft, knock yourself out.
...which reminds me, I need to know what you think needs fixing on the other vehicles before I attempt starships, or the special abiliies, etc.
I'll try and take a closer look at those vehicles to see what (if anything) needs fixin'. I'll try to post something up by Monday at the latest.
Jedi Steve-OP.S. Does no one but Hedgehog want to play a Harkonnen?
I feel lonely.
On another topic. Does anyone else think it might be feat/template-worthy to have a character have certain special characteristics that stem from being a part of the B.G. breeding program? The fact that Count Fenring was an "almost-kwisatz-haderach" (and could have, by all accounts, killed the real kwisatz haderach) would seem to indicate that the witches were hedging their bets and not putting all their eggs in one basket until close to the end. Maybe a stat bonus or a bonus feat of some sort from still having some genetic dominant traits from having been a "stepping stone" in the breeding program somewhere?
...Does anyone else think it might be feat/template-worthy to have a character have certain special characteristics that stem from being a part of the B.G. breeding program? The fact that Count Fenring was an "almost-kwisatz-haderach" (and could have, by all accounts, killed the real kwisatz haderach) would seem to indicate that the witches were hedging their bets and not putting all their eggs in one basket until close to the end. Maybe a stat bonus or a bonus feat of some sort from still having some genetic dominant traits from having been a "stepping stone" in the breeding program somewhere?
Hmmm... Okay. Here's my general opinion about using "special templates" or "special races" or "special feats" to duplicate fictional characters: It can all be done with existing feats and levels.
Count Fenring had much more experience [levels] fighting than Muad'Dib did. He was older, had survived longer, and was craftier and more subtle. Yeah, the old Count could probably have killed Paul, partly because of training, and partly because of Paul's own fear of not seeing him in the prescient visions he had come to rely on.
"Youth and skill are no match for treachery and old age."
Jedi Steve-Oand partly because of Paul's own fear of not seeing him in the prescient visions he had come to rely on
Could that itself be a feat? Prescient Invisibility: Say maybe a +2 bonus to saves against and/or reactions (Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motives) of those with prescient visions, i.e. Bene Gesserit and Reverend Mothers.
For the record, I gave most weapons some kind of weird bonus that you generally only see for exotic weapons in D&D. I felt this was a good idea for several reasons. For one thing, it makes combat more interesting and rewards players who are willing to try something flamboyant and/or unpredictable. Secondly, it makes it more difficult to compare one weapon with another, since everything's not on a strictly quantitative basis. This in turn makes min-maxing more difficult and will hopefully discourage power gaming.
*Chakram (D4 slashing, 20/x3, ranged exotic): A Chakram is a thowing disk about one foot in diameter with a razor-sharp outer rim.
**Dagger (D4 piercing or slashing, 19-20/x2, light simple): Easily concealed and extremely versatile, a knife can be used in close combat or thrown.
Estoc (2D4 piercing, 20/x3, one-handed martial): The estoc is a heavy, rigid blade often worn without a scabbard. It is favored by military men and those who prefer violence over subtly. [I believe that the Estoc is balanced against the Saber and Rapier; it averages 5.5 damage per swing, compared to just under 5 for the saber. That seems like a decent “insurance premium” for the bonus against disarmament. If anyone disagrees, the average damage can be lowered to 5.25 by reducing the critical multiplier to x2]
*Fukimi-bari/Mouth Darts (1 piercing, 20/x2, ranged exotic): These slim, needle-like metal darts are concealed in the mouth and spat at the target. A proficient user may fire up to three Fukimi-bari as a standard action, while a nonproficient user may fire only a single dart. A proficient user may conceal up to six Fukimi-bari in her mouth at a time, while a non proficient user may hold only three. You do not apply your Strength modifier to damage rolls while using Fukimi-bari. [For the record, I’m not entirely sure how many darts you could actually fit in your mouth at a time... I don’t know how we’d check this, but I thought it was important to specify. Also, given the low damage these things seem like natural vectors for poison - except that you carry them in your mouth. Any thoughts?]
**Katar (D4 piercing, 20/x3, light simple): Also known as a punching dagger, the katar deals considerable damage for its size.
Kindjal (D6 slashing, 19-20/x2, light martial): These double-edged, slightly curved short swords are the preferred off-hand weapons of experienced duelists. When you fight with two weapons including at least one Kindjal, the attack penalties for your primary and off-hand weapons are each reduced by one.
Parrying Dagger (D4 piercing, 19-20/x2, light martial): Sometimes referred to as a sai or main-gauche, the parrying dagger is a popular alternative to the Kindjal among more conservative (some would say cowardly) duelists. While using a parrying dagger, you gain a +1 to Defense when taking the full defense action or using the Two-Weapon Defense feat.
**Rapier (D6 piercing, 18-20/x2, one-handed martial): The rapier is a precise, elegant weapon, the traditional counterpart of a Kindjal. You gain a +2 bonus to Disarm and Feint checks while using a rapier.
Rhomphaia (D8 slashing, 20/x4, one-handed martial): Favored by members of House Harkonnen, the rhomphaia is a curved sickle-like sword that deals damage with a pulling motion. You gain a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls when executing a coup de grace with a rhomphaia. [Possible alternative names include the falx and the sappara]
Saber (D8 slashing, 19-20/x2, one-handed martial): A saber is a long, slightly curved slashing blade. A saber’s basket hilt grant a +2 bonus to resist being disarmed and allows you to make unarmed strikes as if wearing a gauntlet. [Alternatively, the basket hilt could grant a bonus to Defense when using the full-defense option. The saber could also be renamed as a scimitar or tulwar for a more exotic flavor]
Slip-tip (D4 piercing, 19-20/x2, light martial): Slip-tip is a generic name for all manner of short, thin blades. You gain a +2 bonus to Sleight of Hand checks to conceal a Slip-tip on your person.
Swordbreaker (D6-1 slashing, 20/x2, one-handed martial): A sword-breaker is a short, heavy blade designed to catch and destroy an opponent’s weapon. When making a Sunder attack with a swordbreaker, you ignore half of the target weapon’s hardness. [Not sure if this should be exotic; if so, it should probably get it’s damage dice upgraded to D8 and maybe gain the ability to apply criticals to objects or something]
*Warfan (D6 slashing, 20/x3, one-handed exotic): To the casual observer, this weapon appears to be no more then a beautifully-crafted lady’s fan. Closer examination reveals steel-reinforced construction and needle-sharp vanes. When first entering melee using a warfan, you may attempt a Bluff check against your opponent’s Sense Motive check. If you win the contest, you gain a +4 bonus on attacks made against the foe during the first round of combat. [The special rules remind me of the Snake Strike feat. Perhaps it would be worth integrating the two?]
* Indicates a weapon found in the D&D Arms and Equipment Guide. Some changes to stats and flavor text may have been made.
** Indicates a standard D&D weapon with changes to the flavor text and/or stats.
Could that itself be a feat? Prescient Invisibility: Say maybe a +2 bonus to saves against and/or reactions (Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motives) of those with prescient visions, i.e. Bene Gesserit and Reverend Mothers.
We could just give the failed Kwisatz Haderach the prototypical equivalent to the Mark Of Siona which would normally only be available in the time after the fall of the God Emperor.
I do like the idea that Hasimir, and Paul, both as products of the breeding program suggests that there might be other flawed Kwisatz Haderachs; with which to populate your campaign, adding intriguing villains and allies.
Further, it is known that the Bene Tleilax construct their own Kwisatz Haderach but are forced to destroy him. The dating suggests during the reign of the [EDIT] Paul Atreidies, but it could be at any point in Bene Tleilax history - and therefore the manner of his undoing is ripe with campaign possibilities.
From Dune Messiah
"Ah, yes -- Hayt," Edric said. "Why did you sell him to us?"
"Because we once bred a kwisatz haderach of our own," Scytale said.
With a quick movement of her old head, the Reverend Mother looked up at him. "You didn't tell us that!" she accused.
"You didn't ask," Scytale said.
"How did you overcome your kwisatz haderach?" Irulan asked.
"A creature who has spent his life creating one particular representation of his selfdom will die rather than become the antithesis of that representation," Scytale said.
"I do not understand," Edric ventured.
"He killed himself," the Reverend Mother growled.
CARRYALL: a flying wing (commonly 'wing'), the aerial work-horse of Arrakis, used to transport large spice mining, hunting, and refining equipment.
CRUSHERS: military space vessels composed of many smaller vessels locked together and designed to fall on an enemy position, crushing it.
DUMP BOXES: the general term for any cargo container of irregular shape and equipped with ablation surfaces and suspensor damping system. They are used to dump material from space on to a planet's surface.
FRIGATE: largest spaceship that can be grounded on a planet and taken off in one piece.
GROUNDCAR
HEIGHLINER: major cargo carrier of the Spacing Guild's transportation system.
LIGHTERS; referenced in the DE
MONITOR: a ten-section space warcraft mounting heavy armor and shield protection. It is designed to be separated into its component sections for lift-off after planet-fall.
ORNITHOPTER (commonly: 'thopter): any aircraft capable of sustained wing-beat flight in the manner of birds.
SANDCRAWLER: general term for machinery designed to operate on the Arrakis surface in hunting and collecting melange.
SPOTTER CONTROL: the light ornithopter in a spice-hunting group charged with control of watch and protection.
SUSPENSOR: secondary (low-drain) phase of a Holtzman field generator. It nullifies gravity within certain limits prescribed by relative mass and energy consumption.
TROOP CARRIER: any Guild ship designed specifically for transport of troops between planets.
FRIGATE
The generic term for the largest
spaceships which could land and lift off
in one piece from a planetary surface.
Although common usage makes it
appear that "frigate" means one sort of
spaceship, there were at least several
hundred, perhaps as many as a
thousand, different designs which were
all referred to by this single term, the
factor common to all being mass.
While most Houses, Major and Minor
alike, owned a few troop carriers and
the richest of the Major Houses had
more specialized cargo and combat
spaceships, it was the frigate which
was the true workhorse of all the House
fleets.
One of the more popular frigate
designs was the "steamship," in which
a fusion plant heated a reaction mass,
usually water but sometimes ammonia
or some other light compound. Various
heat exchange techniques utilizing
plasma fluxes and electromagnetic
fields made the system reasonably
efficient, and it was cheap to maintain.
The same sort of energy fields around
the launching pad absorbed much of
the initial blast so that the major
environmental problem was noise as
the ship rose above the port.
A second widely used design
was the "brat," which exploded small
fission bombs under an ablative plate at
its base. It was faster, more efficient,
and lifted more pay-load than the
steamship, but it was also much more
expensive and left much short-term
radioactivity in its wake.
Most efficient of all was the
"torch," whose exhaust was plasma, but
ruling Houses were often reluctant to
allow what amounted to giant heat
cannons to come and go overhead.
Because of the Guild monopoly,
no frigate was capable of trans-light
operation. In interstellar transit, frigates
were mere cargo. In the confines of a
planetary system, however, the frigate
was dominant. No other class of ship
was so flexible, with so favorable a
combination of size, speed, and surface
accessibility. Obviously no single
frigate could be wholly representative,
but one that is broadly illustrative was
Antiock, the personal spaceship of the
Padishah Emperor Corrin XVIII (r.
6874-6892). Surely one of the largest
frigates ever built, Antiock massed well
over nine hundred thousand tonnes and
was four hundred and eleven meters in
length. Its torch engine gave it a
maximum launch acceleration of
approximately seven standard g's.
Corrin, an aggressive scion of an
aggressive family, intended Antiock for
combat and planetary bombardment. It
had storage for seven hundred missiles
and torpedoes, fittings for a hundred
lasguns, and emplacements for a large
number of projectile weapons. Its
shields were probably the strongest
ever installed on a mobile base. But for
reasons known only to the Bene
Gesserit, Corrin's favorite courtesan, a
member of the Sisterhood, persuaded
him that Antiock should also serve
court functions. Almost half of the
armament was either removed or never
installed; one of the missile bays
became a ballroom, another an
audience chamber; at least one of the
lasgun turrets was converted to a
starshine conservatory. Antiock was
never used in combat. Neither did it
serve long as a space-going palace: it
was first launched in 6890; less than
two years later Corrin was dead of
chaumurky. His heir, Harmon III (r.
6892-6898), sold Antiock to the Guild,
and it disappears from history.
Unlike heighliners, monitors,
crushers, and other specialized ships of
the Imperium, the frigate endured even
long past the God Emperor's time.
Since a frigate was simply a spaceship
of a certain size with certain
capabilities, it may be said to exist in
fact, if not in name, today. Thousands
of contemporary craft are of that size,
launch as single units from planetary
surfaces, and use some form of reaction
drive. Most, of course, are also capable
of trans-light operation, but only the
Guild monopoly prevented the addition
of that capability to the frigates.
M.M.
Further references:
x Odri Shang, "References to Frigates in the
Catalogued Documents of the Rakis Hoard,"
Archives Quarterly Review, 21:26-111;
x Dekonalit Winity, "Antiock and the Frigates
of the Imperium," Journal of Paleoeconomics,
37:141-253.
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Weapons of the Imperium :Melee Weapons
Weapon Critical Damage Size Notes
Flip-dart * 1 Tiny Requires opponent to be denied dex bonus
Knife 19-20 1d4 Light
Slip-tip 18-20 1d4 Light +2 to hit in offhand
Kindjal 19-20 1d6 Light
Rapier 18-20 1d6 Medium
Sabre 19-20 1d8 Medium
Katana 19-20 2d6 Large Exotic Melee Proficiency
[edit] the standard D&D shield bash, and hence Improved Shield Bash feats should be in here too, as the Holtzman shield can be used for bashin' attacks [edit]
Confirmed critical ignores DR, dealing double dice damage - bonuses not
multiplied. Unconfirmed critical now also ignores DR to reflect the skill of the weilder.
Flip Dart A small needle like barb used to deliver a potent drug or poison.
Flip darts are so named for the protective 'flip-cover' used to conceal the
needle - difficult to spot with the naked eye and immune to poison snoopers
as long as it remains hermetically sealed A sleight of hand or a
successful feint will be required to gain the moment to use the flip dart.
It always strikes as a threatened critical which guarantees it will deliver
the poison by ignoring DR. [This is the High Handed Enemy - the Gom Jabbar for example - or the concealed spike in Feyd Ruatha bodice - though the Armour Spikes rule could be utilised for this]
Slip-tip A specialised form of fighting knife designed for off hand use.
The blade earns its name from the comparative ease by which its slender
blade penetrates shields and between ribs. The blade is a long, double edged
and tapers gently towards the sharp tip. Its hilt incorporates a deliberate
cross guard to catch and deflect.
Primarily considered a companion blade to a kindjal, rapier or sabre. When
used in a formal duel, an envenomed slip-tip will be carried in a white
gloved hand. (Blanc Sinister). Wheras the sword will be carried in a black
glove indicating purity. (Nuit Dexter).
Kindjal A kindjal is a double bladed short sword (or long knife) constructed
of any metal such as plasteel. The traditional form is of a gracefully
curved, double edged blade terminating in a glittering point. Kindjals are
the standard issue blade of House personnel but remain a favourite amongst
noblemen and duellists.
Rapier & Sabre, remain noble weapons in the age of the Imperium. The rapier
is a long straight edged blade, whereas the sabre is elegantly curved. Both
terminate in an acute point - instrumental in shield penetrating thrusting
attacks. Constructed of tempered metal such as cold-cast plasteel or
titanium. All in all the duelling swords prevail as the most elegant of the
archaic weapons, quick in balance and precise of motion. Considered regal
weapons for noble personages, swords carry caste restrictions on most
Imperial worlds. Legally borne by Nobles or House
Swordmasters who possess sufficient training and cachet to bear the regal
weapon.
Katana, requires Exotic Weapon Proficieny to use in one hand. Otherwise 2
handed at -4 to hit. May not be taken as a staring feat. Secret of manufacture lost to the Imperium.
Here are some melee weapons I think we should stat in the near future. Some are Dune canon, others seemed like good "imports".
Fingerblades: I'm not sure if this would be better handled as a slip-tip variation or even a cybernetic implant, but small blades concealed under the finger nails would be a great way of delivering poisoned attacks.
Wireblade: It seems like monofilament weapons are a distinct possibility given Ixian technology.
*Flame Swords/Crucible Swords: This could be either a sword with a napalm reservoir in the grip (watch out for those sunder attacks!) or a superconductive blade heated by an internal fusion cell.
*Polar blade: These weapons incoporate a high-powered electromagnet, making it easier to disarm opponents (say +2 equipment bonus). Might make a good weapon upgrade, along the lines of Masterwork, ect.
*Quick blade: These weapons are built around a special inertial dampener, making them unnaturally quick and easy to swing (I'd be inclined to give more favorable BAB progression, although that's quite powerful). Might make a good weapon upgrade, along the lines of Masterwork, ect.
*Trick blade: By pressing a hidden switch, the wielder can cause the weapon's blade to spin around into a new configuration, hopefully surprising his opponent (I'd say it grants a +2 bonus to feint checks and trip attempts). Ixian ones might respond to mental commands, making them even more valuable. Might make a good weapon upgrade, along the lines of Masterwork, ect.
Bodkin: Weapons called bodkins are referred to in Dune, but it was unclear whether they represented variations on the slip-tip/kindjal theme.
Throwing weapons: I'd say: Shurieken, chakram, darts and throwing knives. They'd probably require a feat to use properly against shields. I'd say one basic one that anyone can take, then another feat.
Splinter Sword: This would be a biorganic Tleilaxu weapon covered in thousands of microscopic barbs. Any hit on unprotected flesh would deal grievous damage.
* Borrowed from the Fading Suns game. Not sure if they're official or fan-created.
Finally, we need rules for spotting wormsign. I don't know enough about the topic to say anything useful, but I'd go by distance, with extremely high DCs for far away (like say DC 40 for ten miles).
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Here are some melee weapons I think we should stat in the near future...
Fingerblades: I'm not sure if this would be better handled as a slip-tip variation or even a cybernetic implant, but small blades concealed under the finger nails would be a great way of delivering poisoned attacks.
Wireblade: It seems like monofilament weapons are a distinct possibility given Ixian technology.
These both seem doable, or at least attemptable. I'd like to develop a weapon similar to a finger blade for the Gom Jabbar.
*Flame Swords/Crucible Swords: This could be either a sword with a napalm reservoir in the grip (watch out for those sunder attacks!) or a superconductive blade heated by an internal fusion cell.
*Polar blade: These weapons incoporate a high-powered electromagnet, making it easier to disarm opponents (say +2 equipment bonus). Might make a good weapon upgrade, along the lines of Masterwork, ect.
*Quick blade: These weapons are built around a special inertial dampener, making them unnaturally quick and easy to swing (I'd be inclined to give more favorable BAB progression, although that's quite powerful). Might make a good weapon upgrade, along the lines of Masterwork, ect.
*Trick blade: By pressing a hidden switch, the wielder can cause the weapon's blade to spin around into a new configuration, hopefully surprising his opponent (I'd say it grants a +2 bonus to feint checks and trip attempts). Ixian ones might respond to mental commands, making them even more valuable. Might make a good weapon upgrade, along the lines of Masterwork, ect.
Honestly, flashy weapons like this just turn me off. Flame swords and polar blades and trick blades and quick blades... seems like it's just begging for a cruel GM's ruling on a critical failure... Just too complicated to be worth dealing with. And frankly, I'm not sure how close to the spirit of DUNE any of those weapons are. I looked at a lot of the Fading Suns stuff for some of the other classes and equipment, but these were left out, as they're just not my cup of tea.
Bodkin: Weapons called bodkins are referred to in Dune, but it was unclear whether they represented variations on the slip-tip/kindjal theme.
Throwing weapons: I'd say: Shuriken, chakram, darts and throwing knives. They'd probably require a feat to use properly against shields. I'd say one basic one that anyone can take, then another feat.
Throwing a weapon through a shield? Um... there's the basic concept of getting something to go fast enough to defy gravity...
Splinter Sword: This would be a biorganic Tleilaxu weapon covered in thousands of microscopic barbs. Any hit on unprotected flesh would deal grievous damage.
Bodkins (IIRC) are another name for a knife--a thicker blade, but something for piercing/slashing nonetheless.
Throwing weapons will definitely be covered, but I'm not sure about shuriken or chakrams as they represent a very specific, very ancient Terran culture.
Splinter Swords sound fun, but I'd have to look at the stats and/or consequences of dealing with that sort of secondary damage.
Finally, we need rules for spotting wormsign. I don't know enough about the topic to say anything useful, but I'd go by distance, with extremely high DCs for far away (like say DC 40 for ten miles).
Spot DCs with a bonus for Ride (Worm), Handle Animal (Worm) or such like sound like a first guess...
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I voted Jedi ^_^
Thanks, Talmeth... But why wouldn't your vote "count"? Didn't you vote for me?!
Jedi Steve-OP.S. I just really want that custom avatar and custom member title. "Jedi Steve-O :: Kwisatz Haderach" has a nice ring to it...
-Tal
Throwing a weapon through a shield? Um... there's the basic concept of getting something to go fast enough to defy gravity...
P.S. Oh, and vote for me in the February Contest: Playing With Everything or I'll cover you in weasels.
I swear on my body's water that Herbert said thrown weapons were not only useable but fairly common. In fact, I think Thufir Hawat gets captured by Sardaukar using thrown weapons, IIRC. My understanding was that although it was hard to do, thrown weapons could be used to penetrate shields if you were sufficiently skilled. This applies especially to characters with superior physical conditioning such as the BG. That's what I meant to say for the feat progression: the first one would be open to everyone and would make thrown weapon attacks vs shields feasable, the second feat would be Prana/Bindu and make them truly effective.
I swear on my body's water that Herbert said thrown weapons were not only useable but fairly common.
That's a pretty serious oath. Hmmm... I stand (or in this case, "sit") corrected.
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DUNE, pg 218 (Berkley 1981 Paperback Ed.)
"A thrown knife caught Hawat's Fremen companion in the throat, hurling him backward, twisting face down. Hawat had only time to draw his own knife before blackness of a stunner projectile felled him."
I don't believe either man had a shield on at the time. The Fremen were unbelievably proficient fighting men. Earlier in that same scene, Hawat's Fremen companion spoke of the "inconvenience" of killing Sardaukar -- casually taking captives of the Emperor's Terror Troops. At one point, the Fremen even criticizes the Sardaukar, "Aiihh! They use their stupid shields."
I don't doubt that throwing weapons were fairly common in the Imperium, as they are mentioned frequently throughout the book -- but throwing a knife (or other weapon) through a Holtzman shield is something else entirely.
Fear not, the d20 System has rules for thrown weapons and I'll be including them for use.
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I voted for you no worries...
Thanks, Talmeth.
...as a side note... I am familiar with at least basic website maintenance and server control... along with at least basic website design and html...
Thanks in advance. I'll keep that in mind. Right now I'm just posting some basic information-type stuff. What I'm really interested in is having a decent message board for the site (much like WotC's). It's the one part of their website that I thoroughly enjoy.
Jedi Steve-OWeapons of the Imperium: Melee Weapons
Your chart looks great... I'm using nearly identical stats.
Flip-dart* *Requires opponent to be denied Dex bonus.
Does the flip-dart require the opponent to be flat-footed for general use or just for a critical hit? Either way, it's devious and I like it!
...the standard D&D shield bash, and hence Improved Shield Bash feats should be in here too, as the Holtzman shield can be used for bashin' attacks...
Done.
Flip Dart
A small needle like barb used to deliver a potent drug or poison. Flip darts are so named for the protective 'flip-cover' used to conceal the needle - difficult to spot with the naked eye and immune to poison snoopers as long as it remains hermetically sealed A sleight of hand or a successful feint will be required to gain the moment to use the flip dart.
It always strikes as a threatened critical which guarantees it will deliver the poison by ignoring DR. [This is the High Handed Enemy - the Gom Jabbar for example - or the concealed spike in Feyd-Ruatha's bodice - though the Armor Spikes rule could be utilised for this]
Slip-tip
A specialised form of fighting knife designed for off hand use. The blade earns its name from the comparative ease by which its slender blade penetrates shields and between ribs. The blade is a long, double-edged and tapers gently towards the sharp tip. Its hilt incorporates a deliberate cross guard to catch and deflect.
Primarily considered a companion blade to a kindjal, rapier or sabre. When used in a formal duel, an envenomed slip-tip will be carried in a white gloved hand. (Blanc Sinister). Wheras the sword will be carried in a black glove indicating purity. (Nuit Dexter).
Kindjal
A kindjal is a double bladed short sword (or long knife) constructed of any metal such as plasteel. The traditional form is of a gracefully curved, double edged blade terminating in a glittering point. Kindjals are the standard issue blade of House personnel but remain a favourite amongst noblemen and duellists.
Rapier & Sabre
Both remain noble weapons in the age of the Imperium. The rapier is a long straight edged blade, whereas the sabre is elegantly curved. Both terminate in an acute point - instrumental in shield penetrating thrusting attacks. Constructed of tempered metal such as cold-cast plasteel or titanium. All in all the duelling swords prevail as the most elegant of the archaic weapons, quick in balance and precise of motion. Considered regal weapons for noble personages, swords carry caste restrictions on most Imperial worlds. Legally borne by Nobles or House Swordmasters who possess sufficient training and cachet to bear the regal weapon.
Katana
An ancient weapon, the katana requires Exotic Weapon Proficieny to use in one hand. Otherwise 2 handed at -4 to hit. May not be taken as a starting feat. Secret of manufacture lost to the Imperium.
These are all great text descriptions (though I'm not sure about including katanas for the same reason I'm shying away from chakrams and shuriken) and I'd like your permission to include them as the flavor text for these weapons.
Jedi Steve-OJust getting back to some of the posts that I seem to have...er, "overlooked."
Your chart looks great... I'm using nearly identical stats.
Does the flip-dart require the opponent to be flat-footed for general use or just for a critical hit? Either way, it's devious and I like it!Done.These are all great text descriptions (though I'm not sure about including katanas for the same reason I'm shying away from chakrams and shuriken) and I'd like your permission to include them as the flavor text for these weapons.
Everything here is for public use and re-use. The stats must flow
I include the very anachronistic katana as a signature item from our campaign, gifted by the Master of the Ginaz Academy to a PC who underwent tutelage with him. It's a radical and unique style in the Imperium. The visual we have of the fighting technique involves stepping inside the opponents shield and then drawing the weapon across the victim with a lighting strike as suggested by Iajitsu. As Idaho says - "killing with the point lacks artistry". A weapon with no truly functional point is completely at odds with most other fighting styles in the Imperium, but enforces Idaho's maxim.
The flip dart requires either a succesful use of the feint manuever, flanking, or initiative in the first round (or even dazing from a succesful MAS?? must check this). The 'always critical' function is a rule hack to bypass any DR (as in Star Wars criticals) to allow the poison payload to be delivered. Inspiration comes from Feyd's attempt to feint Paul (though this could be considered an armour spike which I have added also), and the Gom Jabbar.
Expanded from my above post; I use slightly variant critical rules than standard D20 Modern. To encourage finesse fighters, and thwart STR fighters.
Confirmed critical ignores DR, dealing double dice damage - STR bonuses not multiplied.
An unconfirmed critical now also ignores DR to reflect the skill of the weilder.
As to the nature of thrown weapons versus shields. I must come down in the negative camp. To my mind the fremen disgust of the Sardaukar is reference to their 'Shield Condtioning'. Much as Paul had to overcome this hesitation when he fought Jamis unshielded. I believe the Sardaukar were unshielded due to the Worm attraction property (though if the battle took place inside the Shield Wall this is possibly in error).
My name is Gregory, and I am working a d20 game called "Dark Rift" it is non-profit project, as it is a "crossover" game involving a number of popular sci-fi universes. The reason that I am contacting you is that I am trying to find out if anyone has a D20 Dune RPG that they have developed that I might be able to get a copy of. Even if it isn;t completely finished, it would allow me to incorporate the material into the Dark Rift game and save me a LOT of time in creating the material myself.
I suspect there are one or more people here who have been developing versions of the Dune game in d20 format, and I was hoping that someone will be willing to share a copy of the game with me.
I am more then happy to pay shipping on any printed materials that would need to be shipped and even a reasonable reimbursment for the costs of printing things out or photo-copying them, if electronic files can't be sent. I am also happy to share copies of "Dark Rift" when it is completely finished.
I look forward to hearing from anyone who can help me.
My email address is [email]black_omega_375@hotmail.com[/email]
Good luck on your "Dark Rift" crossover project, but d20 Dune isn't quite ready for release just yet. It's very close to being finished, and as soon as it is, I'll be happy to point you towards the PDF.
Of course, you're more than welcome to sift through the threads and pull out any information you like. As artaxerxes said, "Everything here is for public use and re-use. The stats must flow."
Jedi Steve-OThank you. I look forward to seeing the PDF when the game is ready; and I'll start sifting through this forum.
Does anyone have a list of the Worlds in the Dune universe, perhaps with a blurb about each one?
By Joseph M. Daniels
(c) 1999 (14201 B.G.), All rights reserved.
************
Dedication
To Cliff Amos, who told me a quarter century ago that I should read sci-fi:
--I said I preferred non-fiction.
To Chuck Bertram, who strongly suggested almost a decade ago that I read _Dune_:
--I told him I saw the movie.
To the young woman behind the counter of the L. L. Bookworm Bookstore,
Holden Beach, North Carolina in June, 1994:
--She thought _Dune_ was the greatest book ever written.
So I finally yielded to suggestion:
--Thus becoming hopelessly addicted to the spice melange!
They are all partly to blame for this!
************
Table of Contents:
Part One: Introduction
A. Prologue
B. Conventions and Source Citations
C. Mapping the Imperium
Part Two: The Zensunni Wandering
A. Origin: Old Earth
B. The First Stop: Poritrin
C. The Second Stop: Salusa Secundus
D. The Third Stop: Bela Tegeuse
E. The Fourth Stop: Ishia
F. The Fifth Stop: Rossak
G. The Sixth Stop: Harmonthep
Part Three: Miscellanea Imperii
A. Chusuk: the Music Planet
B. Corrin
C. Delta Kaising III
D. Ecaz: The Sculptor's Paradise
E. Galicia
F. Gamont: The Pleasure Planet
G. Grumman
H. Hagal: The Jewel Planet
I. Ix and Richese
J. Kaitain: The Imperial Court
K. Sikun
L. Tleilax
M. Tupile
N. Wallach IX
Part Four: Terrae Incognitae
Table of Stellar and Planetary Names
Part Five: Harkonnen and Atreides
A. Giedi Prime (later Gammu)
B. Caladan (later Dan)
C. Arrakis (later Rakis)-a.k.a. Dune
************
Part One: Introduction
"The singular multiplicity of this universe draws my deepest attention. It is a thing of
ultimate beauty."
-The Stolen Journals (of Leto II), __God Emperor of Dune__, page 234.
******
Prologue:
As every Bene Gesserit sister will come to know and all readers of _Dune_ should already know, a beginning is a delicate time. So I shall take care to explain my intentions.
I have long had a casual interest in both astronomy and science fiction. So when Frank Herbert's _Dune_ captivated me a few years ago, I decided to take a look at its astronomical references. I thought I would visually observe such of them as I could and try to discover why particular stars were chosen and how planets were named.
I presumed that I would find a fairly straightforward scheme. This error was quickly corrected when I discovered that "Giedi Prime" and "Arrakis" were the names of real stars as well as fictional planets.
I supposed (and continue to do so) that Herbert named some planets after star systems in which important, but usually unspecified, historical events will have taken place. Come to think of it, someone of Muad'dib's time might wonder how a small town in Indiana and a public square in London came to have the same name as a cape in Spain: Trafalgar. Such a person might very well know what happened near the star Alpha1 Capricorni, otherwise Giedi Prime, to cause a planet to be named after it but be ignorant of Lord Nelson's victory.
This appealed to my interest in the historical, more abiding still than my attractions to astronomy and science fiction. So it began to look like a fun project, and indeed it has been. I hope you will find the results interesting.
The stars and planets discussed at length are those introduced in _Dune_ as opposed to the five other books of the Chronicles. Little fresh astronomical material was added in these later books: worlds were given names but without any attempt to identify their location in the heavens. In the interest of thoroughness, I have listed these worlds in the section entitled "Terrae Incognitae".
******
Conventions and Source Citations:
When there are identical star and planet names and the possibility of confusion exists, the star name will be preceded by an "*", and the planet name with an "@". Thus I would write *Arrakis for Mu Draconis and @Arrakis for Dune.
Sources will be given in the text except where the following either applies or suffices for the purpose:
1. The "Terminology of the Imperium" always included with the _Dune_ text will not be cited as a source. It is the "canon" with which all interested parties are expected (by me, at least) to be familiar.
2. Star positions given in equatorial coordinates, i.e., right ascension (RA) and declination (DEC), are taken from the program "Redshift3", Maris Multimedia Ltd., San Rafael, CA, precessed for the year 2000 C.E. (14200 B.G.). Visual and absolute magnitudes, distance, and spectral type are also taken from it unless otherwise noted.
3. Star positions given in galactic latitude (b) and galactic longitude (l) are my own calculations based on RA and DEC.
The following symbols will be used in lieu of complete book titles:
A. BM = _Breaking the Maya Code_, by Michael D. Coe (Thames & Hudson, New York, 1992).
B. CD = _Children of Dune_, by Frank Herbert (Ace Books, New York, 1987).
C. CH = _Burnham's Celestial Handbook_, by Robert Burnham, Jr. (Dover Publications, Inc., New York, 1978), in three volumes.
D. CP = _Chapterhouse: Dune_, by Frank Herbert (Ace Books, New York, 1987).
E. DU = _Dune_, by Frank Herbert (Ace Books, New York, 1990).
F. DE = _Dune Encyclopedia_, edited by Dr. Willis E. McNelly (Berkley Books, New York, 1984). (I will often refer to this source as "the Encyclopedist". Its authority is ambiguous: all the more so given the introduction written by Frank Herbert himself. But if it did not receive his unqualified endorsement, it clearly got his _nil obstat_.)
G. EB = _Encyclopaedia Brittanica_, (William Benton, Chicago, 1959).
H. EG = _The Gods of the Egyptians_, by E. A. Wallis Budge (Dover Publications, Inc., New York, 1969), in two volumes.
I. FS = _The Fifth Sun_, by Burr Cartwright Brundage (University of Texas Press, Austin, TX, 1979).
J. GE = _God Emperor of Dune_, by Frank Herbert (Ace Books, New York, 1987).
K. GG = _The Guide to the Galaxy, by Nigel Henbest and Heather Couper (Cambridge University Press, 1994).
L. GM = _The Greek Myths_, by Robert Graves (Penguin Books, Baltimore, Md., 1955).
M. GS = _The Gods and Symbols of Ancient Mexico and the Maya_, by Mary Miller and Karl Taube (Thames & Hudson, Inc., New York, NY, 1993).
N. HD = _Heretics of Dune_, by Frank Herbert (Ace Books, New York, 1987).
O. HG = _A History of Greece_, by J. B. Bury (MacMillan & Co. Ltd., New York, 1963).
P. HH = _The Henry Holt Guide to Astronomy_, by David Baker (Henry Holt & Company, New York, 1990).
Q. HJ = _Hobson-Jobson: The Anglo-Indian Dictionary_, by Henry Yule and A. C. Burnell (Wordsworth Editions Ltd., Ware, England). A republication of the 1886 original.
R. LD = _Cassell's New Latin Dictionary_, by D. P. Simpson (Funk & Wagnalls Co., New York, 1959).
S. LQ = _The Anchor Book of Latin Quotations_, by Norber Guterman (Doubleday, New York, 1966).
T. NA = _National Audubon Society Guide to the Night Sky_, by Mark R. Chartrand (Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1991).
U. OZ = _The Origin of the Zodiac_, by Rupert Gleadow (Castle Books, New York, 1968).
V. RA = _Rules of the Aztec Language_, by Arthur J. O. Anderson (University of Utah Press, Salt Lake City Utah, 1973).
W. SC = _The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible_, by James Strong (Thomas Nelson, Inc., Nashville, Tenn., 1984-first published in 1890).
X. SN = _Star Names_, by Richard Hinckley Allen (Dover Publications, Inc., New York, 1963). A re-publication of _Star-Names and Their Meanings_, 1899. (This book, given its status as a classic work on this subject, may very well have been a source-or even the source-for Frank Herbert.)
Y. SU = _Supernova_, by Donald Goldsmith (Oxford University Press, 1990).
The "magnitudes" shown in my star descriptions are, of course, apparent magnitudes: they give some idea as to the relative brightness of stars as seen from Earth. Stars less than "7" are visible to the unaided eye: the smaller the number, the brighter. The "absolute magnitude" is the apparent magnitude of a star if it were at a distance of 10 parsecs: thus it is the measure of its intrinsic brightness. Spectral classes are based on a spectral analysis of the light from a star: I have equated this with "color" (red, orange, yellow-white, white, blue-white, and blue).
Two astronomers between 1912 and 1914 discovered that if one plotted absolute magnitude against spectral class distribution patterns emerged that were relative to the size of stars (dwarves, main sequence, subgiant, giants, bright giants, and supergiants. The sun is revealed to be among the mainsequence group with an absolute magnitude of 4.8 and a spectral type of G2 (yellow-white). Canopus (the star of Dune) is a supergiant with an absolute magnitude of -5.53 and a spectral type of F0 (white).
My "star designations" are chosen using the common method: If Johann Bayer (1572-1625) found the star prominent enough to assign it a Greek letter, then that designation is used. If not, the number assigned by John Flamsteed (1646-1719) is used-where it exists. If all else fails, I use the number given in the Henry Draper Catalogue of Annie Jump Cannon, created in the early part of the twentieth century. [Please note that I did not say "this century". This document is Y2K compliant!]
******
Mapping the Imperium:
"'Now', quod he thoo, 'cast up thyn yë.
Se yonder, loo, the Galaxie,
Which men clepeth the Milky Wey,
For hit ys whit (and somme parfey,
Kallen hyt Watlynge Strete)...'"
-Geoffrey Chaucer, "House of Fame", Book II.
The important thing in appreciating the Imperium as a physical entity is to think on a galactic level. This is why I use "galactic coordinates", as well as the better known equatorial coordinate system, for referencing the location of celestial objects.
In the equatorial coordinate system, one essentially projects terrestrial points of reference onto an imaginary, fixed celestial sphere within which the Earth rotates. The poles and the equator thus have their celestial analogues, and the Greenwich meridian finds it equivalent at the point the sun crosses the celestial equator at the spring equinox. Along the celestial equator, coordinates are given in 24 "hours" of right ascension; and from pole to pole, the coordinates are in "degrees" of declination, where the north pole is +90deg, the celestial equator 0, and the south pole -90deg. This perspective is handy for a terrestrial observer, but the earth's axis of rotation is not at right angles to the plane of the solar system (off by 23deg26'), and the Galactic plane is inclined at about 63deg to the celestial equator. Consequentially, equatorial coordinates give little immediate information about an object's position relative to the galactic disk.
The Milky Way Galaxy is probably a slightly barred spiral galaxy-100,000 light years across-containing hundreds of billions of stars and with two major arms, the Sagittarius Arm and the Norma Arm. (Truth to tell, some believe there are four or more major arms-the only incontestable features are the arm of which we are a part and the two flanking it.) The sun lies in an arm "fragment" outboard of the Sagittarius Arm called the Local Arm or, more colorfully, the Orion Arm. Outside of the Orion Arm is another arm fragment called the Perseus Arm. The sun is no closer than 25,000 light years (hereafter "ly.") to the galactic center and is rotating in the direction of the constellation Cygnus at 200+ km. per sec. The orbit is not circular, nor is the plane of the orbit parallel to, or coplanar with, that of the Galaxy. [GG, page 53ff.]
It would be nice, of course, to give the location of stars in coordinates reflecting this enormous object of which they are a part. Perhaps one could give this in degrees of rotation around the disk and the angle above or below the plane of the Galaxy as viewed from its center and, of course, the distance from this center in light years or parsecs. Unfortunately, measurements on this scale are not all that accurate presently: for example, estimates of the solar system's distance from the galactic center range up to 33,000 ly., and distances between the Earth and individual stars are sometimes given widely varying values by different sources (e.g., see "Arrakis" for a discussion of the values assigned to Canopus). It is true, of course, that the Hubbell Space Telescope and its successors will correct many of the errors in this data.
The system referred to as "galactic coordinates" is similar to my ideal but still remains geocentric: the point of view chosen is the Earth itself, not the galactic center. (Well, Star Fleet will do no better with its
Sector 0,0,1!) The angle to a star, in degrees, above (from +90deg to 0) or below (from 0 to -90deg) the galactic plane is the galactic latitude (b); the degrees of rotation in the galactic plane (0 to 360deg) about the point of observation is the galactic longitude (l). The zero point of longitude is the direction of the galactic center in the constellation Sagittarius.
Knowing an object's galactic longitude (l), one can tell if it is "ahead" (i.e., in the direction of the solar system's galactic rotation) or "behind" us, to the "right" (toward the galactic center) or to the "left". Deneb, for example, has a longitude of 84.61deg and so we are rotating toward it. Canopus has a longitude of 261.28deg and is almost dead astern of us. A positive latitude (b) indicates the object is above the plane (Deneb at 1.88deg is only slightly above); and negative latitude, below it (Canopus at -25.13deg is significantly below the galactic plane).
The sun currently finds itself in proximity to three families of stars: the Hyades, the Pleiades, and the Sirius superclusters. It did not find its origin amongst these stars, nor even in the Orion Arm for that matter. [GG, pages 163-164] But Sirius, Alpha Canis Majoris, a blue-white main sequence star with a white dwarf companion, is the brightest star in our sky and is only 8.6 light years away. For this reason, Isaac Asimov, that other great future historian, often and plausibly described the solar system as being in the Sirian Sector.
Only a few of the stars which we will be discussing are to be found in this Sirian Sector, no matter how liberally (but reasonably) defined. On the other hand, just about all stars (but not all objects!) visible to the unaided eye lie within a sphere of only 1600 light years radius or so-basically within the Orion Arm. [SU, pages 7-8] Since almost all the stars of _Dune_ were such stars, one is struck by the relative compactness of the heart of the old Imperium. A point not lost on Paul Atreides or his son.
Still, even House Corrino was often said to rule the Galaxy [e.g., DE, page 343]. Was this just hyperbole? One is reminded of Princess Irulan's introduction to the motion picture _Dune_: " . . . The known universe is ruled by the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV...." This echoes the words of Korba to Muad'dib, "Your legions control the known universe...." [DM, page 108] So how much is _known_?
Leto II, however, stated flatly, "This planet of Arrakis from which I direct my multigalactic empire...." [GE, page 13] We can idly speculate if this means more than the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds but it clearly indicates mastery of the Milky Way Galaxy, if not necessarily the Andromeda Galaxy and the rest of the Local Group (of galaxies). The Scattering, of course, renders the issue moot relative to the extent of mankind's spread, since this became no longer coterminous with the Imperium. One recalls, however, that the old Imperium will be the "Million Planets" to the Honored Matres. [CP, page 375]
The God Emperor of Dune will not forgive me if I failed to mention the fourth dimension of the Imperium: TIME. As he will know only too well, we ordinary folk tend not to feel motion in this dimension except perhaps as we grow older and then only in a limited sense. We, of course, know better. But what really are millennia to us, much less ages-given our own brevity?
I have accepted the time line presented in the _Dune Encyclopedia_, by which this year of 1998 C.E. is 14202 B.G. (i.e., "before Guild"). One must point out that this time line does contain at least one egregious error: the date of the Spanish Armada (against the English kingdom of Elizabeth I) is given as 14512 B.G., and the first use of atomics, as 14255 B.G. [DE, page vii] This indicates there was an interval of 257 years. In fact the interval is 357 years (1945-1588=357). Before attempting to explain away this apparent error, one should be aware that the interval shown between Christopher Columbus's first voyage and the Armada is correct (1588-1492=96 years, 14608-14512=96 years). [Ibid.]
Little is said by Herbert himself to establish a firm time line between now and then. He does refer in his appendix on the religion of Dune to "mankind's movement through deep space . . . during the one hundred and ten centuries that preceded the Butlerian Jihad". [DU, page 501] Since the _Dune Encyclopedia_ links the start of the Jihad to the year 200 B.G., one looks with interest to what its timeline shows for the year 11200 B.G.
For that year it lists "the Empire of a Thousand Worlds". When one considers the entry for the preceding century: "the Empire of the 10 Worlds"-the spread of mankind into deep space is clearly indicated. [DE, page vii] 11200 B.G. will be three millennia after our own time, the year 5000 C.E., a three thousand-year interval that depends on the _Dune Encyclopedia_ alone for its authority.
Let us, however, refresh our perspective: This mere "three millennia" before the true Dune timeline even begins is approximately the extent of time between King David of Israel and Judah and today. The putative length of the Zensunni Wandering was even longer-about 4200 years, the time that separates us from Egypt's Old Kingdom. And the time from now until the Kwisatz Haderach? Such an expanse, projected backward, would take us back before the beginnings of civilization, before the last retreat of the glaciers. I can almost feel the "winds of time" ruffling my hair! (The most distant future event I have found mentioned in the Dune Chronicles is the ten thousandth anniversary of the metamorphosis of Leto II-about 35,000 years from now! [HD, page 72] )
************
Part Two: The Zensunni Wandering
"Oh, the landscapes I have seen! And the people! The far wanderings of the Fremen and all the rest of it. Even back through the mists to Terra. Oh, the lessons in astronomy and intrigue, the migrations, the disheveled flights, the leg-aching and lung-aching runs through so many nights on all of those cosmic specks where we have defended our transient possession."
-The Stolen Journals (of Leto II), _God Emperor of Dune_, page 31
******
A. Origin: Old Earth
"The conquests which began with Assur-nasir-apli carried arms into Media and later into Israel, Damascus, Edom, Arpad, Babylon and Umlias. Does anyone remember these names and places now? I have given you enough clues: Try to name the planet."
-The Stolen Journals (of Leto II), _God Emperor of Dune_, page 131
By the "Zensunni Wanderers" I mean those followers of the sect of Ali Ben Ohashi whose original home was "Nilotic al-Ourouba" [DU, page 351] and whose direct descendants were the Fremen of Dune. That this home was on the planet Old Earth is beyond question, even if one does not accept the detailed account offered by the _Dune Encyclopedia_ and despite the Zensunnis' own confusion in this regard. (See "Poritrin".)
It is clear that they had a close connection with Egypt. "Nilotic" is obviously from the Latin adjective Niloticus, meaning "of, or related to, the Nile River". [LD, page 393] More definitive still is that fact that they refer to themselves as the "Misr". Considering that the ancient Hebrew name for the Egyptians is Mizriy and for Egypt Mizrayim (and Arabic similarly has Masri and Blad Masr), I believe the burden of proof is on those who disagree. [SC, "Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary", page 71] (There are further Egyptian allusions, see "Harmonthep" and "Arrakis" below.)
Their language (Arabic dialect) and the Islamic derivation of their religion reinforce the point. Indeed, the relative purity of their Arabic after 25,000 years seemed to be problematic enough to require an elaborate explanation in the _Dune Encyclopedia_ [DE, pages 238-242]. One should compare this to the vast changes to English insofar as it contributed to Galach, the official language of the Imperium [DE, pages 239 and 258-261].
By the time of Muad'dib the Earth will have probably been destroyed, foreshadowing perhaps the fate of Dune. I have found some resistance to this notion and offer the following in support of it:
1. "St. Thomas was preserved in the Orange Catholic Bible and the Azhar Book, but Canterbury was gone from the memories of men, as was the planet which had known it." [CD, page 238]
2. From the Stolen Journals (of Leto II): "This morning I was born in a _yurt_ at the edge of a horse-plain in a land of a planet which no longer exists." [Italics are Herbert's, GE, page 5] _Yurt_ is a Mongolian word for a type of tent. [EB, vol. XV, page 710]
3. Speaking of the Chapterhouse Planet, Darwi Odrade said: "Each planet has its own character where we draw patterns of Old Earth. Sometimes it is only a faint sketch, but here we have succeeded. ...Our ancestral worlds have gone, but here we have recaptured part of our origins." [CP, page 15]
4. Odrade further observed, "Tyrant, you were another clown. Pointing us into endless recycling of cells from that lost and lonely ball of dirt in our common past." [CP, page 139]
One should not, however, confuse this theoretical eschaton with the Encyclopedist's catastrophic event of 13402 B.G. caused by an asteroid striking Earth. [DE, page vii] For one thing, the Zensunni sect was not founded until about 1381 B.G. For another, Old Earth was the meeting site of the Commission of Ecumenical Translators, sponsored in part by the Spacing Guild and Bene Gesserit-hence to be dated after their founding. [DU, page 502] Earth will still be a viable planet at the beginning of the Imperium.
One supposes that the catastrophe of 13402 B.G. was conceived as a method to explain why Earth did not retain its ascendancy or at least its place of honor. (Asimov similarly used the growing radioactivity of the Earth as a device in his Robot-Empire-Foundation series.)
Looking forward to the famous satellites of Dune, one should perhaps take note that people have seen various images on the face of Earth's moon besides the "old man": a hare being rather commonly mentioned from classical times on. [SN, pages 266-268] (But one finds no mouse!)
Star System Data for Old Earth:
[All from NA, pages 627 and 641-667]
Star Designation: Sol
Spectral Type: G2 V (Yellow-White, Main Sequence)
Magnitude: -26.7 (Don't look!)
Absolute Magnitude: 4.8
Major Planets (with average distance in km. and astronomical units):
I. Mercury (57,910,000 km. = 0.3871 a.u.)
II. Venus (108,2000,000 km. = 0.7233 a.u.)
III. (Old) Earth (149,597,870 km. = 1 a.u. by definition)
IV. Mars (227,940,000 km. = 1.5237 a.u.)
V. Jupiter (778.330,000 km. = 5.2028 a.u.)
VI. Saturn (1,426,980,000 km. = 9.5388 a.u.)
VII. Uranus (2,870,990,000 km. = 19.1914 a.u.)
VIII. Neptune (4,497,070,000 km. = 30.0611 a.u.)
IX. Pluto (5,913,520,000 km. = 39.5294 a.u.)
Planetary Data:
[All from NA, page 648, except as noted]
Designation: Sol III
Common Name: (Old) Earth, Terra.
Diameter: 12,756 km.
Density: 5.52 g/cm3
Gravity: 9.8 m./sec2
Sidereal Period: 365.242 days = 1.002 (Imperial) Standard Years [HD, page 36]
Satellite Data:
[All from NA, page 634]
Name: Moon, Luna, inter alia.
Ave. Distance from planet: 384,400 km.
Diameter: 3,476 km.
Density: 3.34
Gravity: 1.67 m./sec2
Sidereal Period: 27.322 days
Magnitude: -12.7 (full moon).
******
B. The First Stop: Poritrin
The Zensunni either fled [DU, page 351] or were removed from Earth [DE, page 512]. The latter was supposed to have happened about 2800 A.G.
In either scenario, they ended up on Poritrin, the third planet of "Epsilon Alangue", where they enjoyed a relatively soft existence on a pleasant planet. This so-called decadence supposedly made them easy prey for Imperial raiders seeking colonists with which to populate Salusa Secundus and Bela Tegeuse. [DU, page 358.]
On the other hand, their long-over 1600 years-and happy stay, remembered from the perspective of such a different future, led some to confuse Poritrin with their true point of origin, Earth.
The meaning of the planetary name I do not know. The designation of its star is interesting in that it reveals that Herbert occasionally used variant, obscure names for constellations: Alangue is a corruption of an Arab name, Al Hawwa, for the constellation Ophiuchus and sometimes for its alpha star, normally called Ras Alhague. [SN, pages 299-301] This, incidentally, puts Poritrin in the same constellation as @Giedi Prime and Sikun.
More such alternative names will come up. Why he used such variants is uncertain. Perhaps it was just to show that such irregularities would multiply over long stretches of time. One remembers the complaint of the Princess Wensicia, when part of the name of Salusa Secundus was elided in her presence: "This is the planet Salusa Secundus. Do not fall into the lazy ways which spread through our Imperium. Full name, complete title-attention to every detail." [CD, page 51]
As Epsilon Ophiuchi, this star actually has a common name of its own: Yed Posterior or "the following hand." Some have claimed it is a star of evil influence. [SN, page 302.] Further will be said of the constellation Ophiuchus under "Giedi Prime".
Star System Data for Poritrin:
Star Designation: Epsilon Ophiuchi (Alangue)
Star Name: Yed Posterior
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=16:18:17, DEC=-4deg41'26"
Galactic Coordinates: b=30.21deg, l=8.89deg
Distance from Old Earth: 107.5 ly.
Spectral Type: G8 III (Yellow, Giant)
Magnitude: 3.23
Absolute Magnitude: 0.64
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. Poritrin
******
C. The Second Stop: Salusa Secundus
"My father has told me of Salusa Secundus. Do you know, Thufir, it sounds much like Arrakis...perhaps not quite as bad, but much like it."
-Paul Atreides, _Dune_, page 32.
Half the Zensunni of Poritrin were forced to migrate to Salusa Secundus in 4492 A.G. [DE, page 513] They were to be slaves on this planet for nine generations.
Salusa Secundus was a planet of such harshness that it was capable of producing the Sardaukar soldier-fanatics of the Corrino emperors and, indeed, the House Corrino itself. The Imperial Court had, of course, long been removed to Kaitain (1487 A.G. [ibid.]) and Salusa Secundus turned into a prison planet. As such, this hellish place contributed its share to the evolution of the Fremen of Dune and the Fedaykin of Muad'dib as well.
Salusa Secundus and Dune were in fact analogous: as Salusa Secundus was to the Saudaukar and House Corrino; so Dune, to the Fremen of the Jihad and House Atreides.
Knowing this, we understand more than most will grasp in the time of Shaddam IV. In fact, it will be a dangerous secret. Thufir Hawat asked the question, "Were there people on Salusa Secundus before the Emperor sent his first contingent of prisoners there? Even the Duke Leto, a cousin on the distaff side, never knew for sure." [DU, page 377] He was but trying to lead the Baron Harkonnen into drawing the proper conclusions about the role this planet had played in Galactic history and understanding how badly the baron had erred in his interview with Count Fenring two years before.
In 5295 A.G., the Zensunni were allowed to emigrate to Ishia. [DE, page 514]
Its planetary name clearly implies that, like @Giedi Prime and @Arrakis, Salusa Secundus was named after a star. Secundus (Latin for "second") is a term sometimes used with the lesser of the two components of a binary star. One would expect a "Salusa Prime" somewhere.
On the surface of it, salusa appears to be a Latin noun, such as nauta, which takes the masculine gender but is in a normally feminine declension. Thus it has an "-a" ending itself, while its adjective, secundus, has the normal masculine "-us" ending. There is a Latin noun salus, meaning "healthful"-nice irony, that! -but is a feminine noun of another declension. ...And Herbert knew his Latin.
It is true, however, that the constellation Aries was known among the Jews as Shalish (variant Shalisha), the name of some sort of musical instrument. [SN, page 82.] Herbert was aware of this, for the planet Chusuk (q.v.) is said to circle Theta Shalish.
Now Gamma Arietis is a well-known binary star and one of the earliest to be discovered (1664 C.E.). [CH, v. I, page 249.] Gamma2 Arietis is a star with a magnitude of 3.88 at about 204.4 ly. distance. If this can be taken to be (Gamma) Shalisha Secundus, then we possibly have our namesake for @Salusa Secundus. There is other evidence that Herbert truncated names in this fashion, no doubt to the outrage of the Princess Wensicia, for example, Eridani A. (See "Ix and Richese".)
Salusa Secundus is the third planet of "Gamma Waiping". Waiping (or Wae Ping, a "rolled screen") is a variant Chinese name for part of the constellation Pisces. [SN, page 343.] This indicates that Herbert not only used variant names for constellations, but also sometimes used names that applied to some asterism within the constellation to describe the whole-a form of synecdoche. The continued use of the Bayer designation-especially when, as in this case, a star with that Greek letter does not lie within the asterism itself-shows that the entire constellation is intended.
One may also note that Herbert makes reference to the "golden light" of Salusa Secundus. [CD, page 179] This is, at least, not in contradiction to the spectral type of Gamma Piscium.
Pisces, the Fish, is a zodiacal sign. The constellation is now where the Sun is found at the Vernal Equinox, the precession of the equinoxes having deprived Aries of that honor it held during ancient times.
Interestingly, the Greek myth about Pisces tells how Aphrodite and her son Eros escaped the giant Typhon by jumping into a stream, turning into fish, and swimming away. [NA, page 577] Now I once read a story about how a mother and son will someday flee from an evil baron by disappearing into the desert, becoming one with the natives, and make good their escape.
Star System Data for Salusa Secundus:
Star Designation: Gamma Piscium (Waiping)
Star Name: None
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=23:17:09, DEC=3deg16'52"
Galactic Coordinates: b=-52.16deg, l=83.58deg
Distance from Old Earth: 130.9 ly.
Spectral Type: G7 III (Yellow, Giant)
Magnitude: 3.7
Absolute Magnitude: 0.68
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. Salusa Secundus
******
D. The Third Stop: Bela Tegeuse
"Life was full with happiness until the raiders came."
--from a Fremen ritual, _Dune_, page 399.
Although called the "Third Stop" of the Zensunni, Bela Tegeuse is the alternate destination for those Zensunni spared from going to Salusa Secundus. [DU, page 358]
The planet was an acceptable home for them for eight centuries. Yet, despite an attempt at resistance, the Sardaukar removed them in 6049 A.G. to two new colonies, Rossak and Harmonthep. [DE, page 514]
Dama, the Great Honored Matre, later mentioned Bela Tegeuse in a list of conquered worlds. [CP, page 223]
The name of Bela Tegeuse is a barely disguised, if slightly corrupted, anagram of one of the most famous stars of all, Betelgeuse, i.e., Alpha Orionis. The name Betelgeuse has been read as a corruption of the Arabic Ibt al Jauzah ("Armpit of the Central One") [SN, page 310] or as Bet El Jeuze ("House of the Twins"). [NA, page 563] The latter name would imply it was once included in the neighboring constellation Gemini. It is a variable red giant of about 0.45 magnitude and 427.5 ly. distance. It is one of the largest stars of known diameter: at its maximum it may be larger than the orbit of Jupiter! [CH, v. II, page 1290]
Bela Tegeuse is said to be the fifth planet of Kuentsing, which is Chinese for "army well". Allen identifies it as being a star in the vicinity of Alpha Leporis or Arneb-more than that he does not and, presumably, could not say. [SN, page 268] This constellation is at the foot of Orion, that is, below the stars Saiph and Rigel.
Since Allen puts this information under Arneb and since the other 7 bright stars in Lepus (65-315 ly. away, magnitudes 2.8-3.8) offer little to choose between them, I will assign Bela Tegeuse to the alpha star of the constellation.
The name means the "hare" from the Arabic name for the constellation Lepus, whose name is but Latin for the same thing. Arneb has several faint companions.
It is more than interesting that both the hare seen on Earth's moon and the muad'dib (i.e., the kangaroo mouse of Dune) seen on the Second Moon of Arrakis have a constellation named after them. (See "Old Earth" and "Arrakis".)
Star System Data for Bela Tegeuse:
Star Designation: Alpha Leporis A
Star Name: Arneb (Kuentsing?)
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=5:32:44, DEC=-17deg49'30"
Galactic Coordinates: b=-24.64, l=221.14
Distance from Old Earth: 1284.1ly.
Spectral Type: F0 Ib (White, Supergiant)
Magnitude: 2.58
Absolute Magnitude: -5.34
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. ?
IV. ?
V. Bela Tegeuse
******
E. The Fourth Stop: Ishia
The Zensunni from Salusa Secundus were allowed to immigrate to Ishia. This was a hot, arid planet, whose desert ecology helped prepare the Fremen-to-be for Arrakis. The immigration to Dune occurred before the descendants of the Bela Tegeuse Zensunni also arrived there in 7193 A.G. [DE, page 516]
I cannot find confirmation of any of this in the text of _Dune_. I would surmise that Ishia was supplied by the _Dune Encyclopedia_ to fill in a gap in the data supplied by Herbert: only Poritrin, Salusa Secundus, Bela Tegeuse, Rossak, and Harmonthep are mentioned as stops of the Zensunni, but Salusa Secundus is called the second stop and Harmonthep, the sixth.
It may be that Herbert actually gave the "missing" planetary name: Leto II remarks that he "can even remember when we Fremen were on Thurgrod." [CD, page 114] Could the Encyclopedist have overlooked this and invented his own name, Ishia?
Ishia, whose name is of unknown significance, is supposed to be the second planet of Beta Tygri. [DE, page 314] But there is no such constellation.
"Tigris" can be an alternate name for the constellation Lynx. [SN, pages 279-280] I did not find, however, a Beta Lyncis! Most references show only an alpha star. One states that "only one star has a Greek-letter name from Johann Bayer's 1603 atlas". [NA, page 543]
Such being the case I considered that the constellation Sagittarius was sometimes called the "Tiger" in China. [SN, page 356] As shown in these pages, Herbert often used Chinese names, but did the Encyclopedist follow this methodology? If so then Beta Sagittarii would perhaps be Ishia's star.
This is an optical binary, i.e., two unrelated stars that happen to line up when viewed from our galactic position. Beta1 is a 3.96 magnitude star, spectral type B9 V. Beta2 is a 4.27 magnitude star, spectral type F2 III, about 138.7 ly from Earth.
But then I discovered that someone, at least, did use Greek-letter names beside "alpha" for the stars of Lynx: An astronomy professor by the name of Young is quoted as referring to "38, or Rho Lyncis"! [SN, page 280]. Finally I found a reference showing the star HD58661 as Beta Lyncis! [HH, page 119]
Did the Encyclopedist know that such existed? Considering the choice made for Rossak's star [see below], was there actually intent to employ plausible sounding, but unused names? If that were the case, then he erred here.
The constellation is not prominent: the standard joke is that one must have the eyes of a lynx to make it out. The comment is attributed to Johannes Hevelius (1611-1687), a Polish astronomer. [SN, page 280]. (Scholarly jests die hard.)
Star System Data for Ishia:
Star Designation: HD58661, Beta Lyncis (Tygri)
Star Name: None
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=7:48:52, DEC=48deg10'54"
Galactic Coordinates: b=26.45deg, l=170.18deg
Distance from Old Earth: 410 ly.
Spectral Type: B9 (Blue)
Magnitude: 5.7
Absolute Magnitude: 0.20
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. Ishia
******
F. The Fifth Stop: Rossak
A part of the Zensunni of Bela Tegeuse was sent to colonize Rossak, a cold and inhospitable world that is the fifth planet of Alces Minor. [DE, page 514] It will be, however, the site of an important discovery: by use of an indigenous, poisonous plant, their Sayyadinas will be able to become Reverend Mothers and gain access to the collective memories of their ancestors. [DU, page 359]
In 7193 A.G., the Rossak Zensunni were able to bribe the Spacing Guild to transport the younger generation to rejoin their long-lost Ishian cousins already on Dune. [DE, page 515-516] No doubt all this suited the Guild's plan to gain more control over Arrakis and, of course, the yet more convoluted machinations of the Bene Gesserit.
I do not know the origin of Rossak's name. Its star, Alces Minor, is also a bit of a mystery. There is an Alkes, the alpha star of the constellation Crater. Both words mean "cup": the former in Arabic (Al Kas), the latter in Greek. [SN, page 183-184]
One may also note that there is a basin on the Temple Platform at Jerusalem by this name-Al Kas. (Do not consider this association too far-fetched: the Shrine of the Skull at Harg Pass will be called "El Kuds", an Arabic title for Jerusalem meaning "the Holy Place". [DM, page 114] )
Normally "minor" would be used to describe the lesser of a pair of stars, e.g., Pherkad Major and Pherkad Minor in Ursa Minor. But no such name seems to have been attached to a star close to Alkes. (Perhaps using a fictional name was a conscious choice of the Encyclopedist.) It has two optical companions, but they are not naked-eye stars: indeed, their magnitudes are greater than 9.
These are designated HD95424 and HD95383. (A third star, HD95384, is at a very great distance and is not under consideration.) The latter of these has a spectral class of F2 (White), whereas the former is a G0 (Yellow-white) and presumably cooler. Thus HD95424 is a better choice for a star "that appeared to clutch much of its heat to itself". [DE, page 513] Beyond that, it is at a comparable distance (181.2 ly.) to Alkes (174.3 ly.). HD95383 is at a distance of 85.2 ly. Thus HD95424 is my admittedly conjectural candidate for Alces Minor.
One could, of course, hypothesize an as yet unseen companion of Alkes. Obviously its characteristics would be unknown. But whether one conceives of the designation "minor" being assigned in the future to a presently known or unknown star, it seems unlikely that this somewhat antique naming style would be used. One would expect Alkes A and B, rather than Alkes Major and Minor.
Star System Data for Rossak:
Star Designation: HD95424
Star Name: None (Alces Minor?)
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=11:00:44, DEC=-18deg21'54"
Galactic Coordinates: b=37.25deg, l=270.14deg
Distance from Old Earth: 181.2 ly.
Spectral Type: G0 (Yellow-white)
Magnitude: 9.07
Absolute magnitude: 5.35
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. ?
IV. ?
V. Rossak
******
G. The Sixth Stop: Harmonthep
The majority of the Zensunni of Bela Tegeuse were sent to Harmonthep, a satellite of the star Delta Pavonis. This planet was destroyed by an unknown cause in the 6800's A.G. [DE, page 516]
There is a mystery here, beside the obvious. Given its proximity to Caladan, an attractive planet in the same star system, how could Harmonthep be destroyed by unknown causes? Surely the future home of the Atreides had been developed no later than Harmonthep! And even we of this primitive century did not fail to observe a comet colliding with another satellite of Sol, much less a planet shattering event!
Its name is interesting, suggesting an ancient Egyptian origin: Heru-Monthu-hotep, i.e., "(the god) Horus-Mentu is satisfied". Two elements of this are found in a common regnal name of the Theban XIth Dynasty of the Middle Kingdom: "Mentuhotep". Two likewise are found in the Greek name for the city in Upper Egypt properly called Annu-Qemat or Annu-Rest: "Hermonthis". Mentu or Monthu was a hawk-headed war god important in the nome of Uast, which contained not only Hermonthis, but the great Thebes as well. [EG, v. I, page 328, v. II, page 24]
Now both the Egyptian names of Hermonthis mean "Annu of the South" to distinguish it from the Annu of Lower Egypt, called "Heliopolis" by the Greeks. Readers of the Dune Chronicles will be more familiar with the Hebrew form of the Egyptian name: "On". [Ibid.]
It was obvious that the name of Leto II's "festival city" Onn was a form of "Annu", and I immediately connected it with Heliopolis, recalling the solar and "pharaonic" associations Leto II made with his "Golden Path." [CD, pages 78-79, 398; GE, pages 41, 127] He even supplied the ancient Egyptian for "Golden Path": Secher Nbiw. (This Egyptian phrase was used as the key to unlock Ghanima's memory of Leto's survival.)
The possible allusion to the Harmonthep tragedy, to Annu of the South and Thebes, and to the XIth Dynasty was a little less obvious. One must, of course, remember that Leto was half-Fremen and remembered everything!
There will be further discussion of Delta Pavonis at a more appropriate point. (See "Caladan".)
Star System Data for Harmonthep:
Star Designation: Delta Pavonis
Star Name: None
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=20:08:38, DEC=-66deg11'01"
Galactic Coordinates: b=-32.89deg, l=329.88deg
Distance from Old Earth: 19.9 ly.
Spectral Type: G5 V (Yellow-white, Main Sequence)
Magnitude: 3.55
Absolute Magnitude: 4.62
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. Caladan
? Harmonthep
************
Part Three: Miscellanea Imperii
"Humans have this deep desire to classify, to apply labels to everything. ...That way we lay claim to what we name. ...My street, my lake, my planet, my label forever."
--Darwi Odrade, _Chapterhouse: Dune_, page 17.
******
A. Chusuk: The Music Planet
"Now some of the she-donkeys of Saul's father Kish had strayed, so Kish said to Saul, 'My son, take one of the servants and be off; go and look for the she-donkeys.' They passed through the highlands of Ephraim and passed through the land of Shalishah, but did not find them . ...So they went up to the town, and as they were going through the gate, Samuel came out in their direction on his way to the high place. ...When Samuel saw Saul, Yahweh told him, 'That is the man of whom I told you; he shall rule my people.'"
-First Book of Samuel, Chapter Nine, Verses 3,4,14,17
Chusuk will be known for the quality of its musical instruments. Varota, a famous maker of balisets, will be a native of this planet.
It is also said that Gurney Halleck will come from Chusuk, his family being one of its Houses Minor. He will be captured during a Harkonnen raid in 10155 A.G. and taken to the slave pits of Giedi Prime. [DE, page 282] As is well known, he will be rescued from Giedi Prime by a later Atreides counter-raid.
Chusuk is the fourth planet of Theta Shalish. As I have already explained under the entry for Salusa Secundus, "Shalish" was the name of a Jewish musical instrument: some sort of triangle or three-stringed lute, for the Hebrew word means "triple". [SC, page 117 of the "Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary"]
I have no idea if Herbert was aware that Shalisha was also the name of a place in ancient Palestine and that the only time it was mentioned was in the passage quoted above, a passage depicting the "recognition" of another god-sent deliverer. Given the intricate webs Herbert liked to weave, it would not surprise me if I were to find that he had been cognizant of it.
"Shalish" was a name applied to the constellation Aries, so I have interpreted Theta Shalish as Theta Arietis. Aries is, of course, one of the zodiacal signs and was associated by the Greeks with the ram from which the Golden Fleece was taken. It was once, during ancient times, the constellation in which the Vernal Equinox occurred: now this happens in Pisces and, as was once eagerly noted in song, will eventually happen in Aquarius as the equinoxes precess.
Star System Data:
Star Designation: Theta Arietis (Shalish)
Star Name: None
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=2:18:7, DEC=19deg54'1''
Galactic Coordinates: b=-38.01deg, l=149.9deg
Distance from Old Earth: 387.4 ly.
Spectral Type: A1 IV (Blue-white, Subgiant)
Magnitude: 5.58
Absolute Magnitude: 0.21
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. ?
IV. Chusuk
******
B. Corrin
Corrin was above all else the name of the space battle near the star Sigma Draconis in 88 B.G. which brought the predecessors of Shaddam IV to the imperial throne. It is said that the victor was one Count Sheuset Ecevit, who took the regnal name of Sheuset Corrino in remembrance of the battle. [DE, page 168]
It was in this battle that Abulurd Harkonnen, the lineal ancestor of the evil Baron we love to hate, disgraced himself by an act of cowardice. Others assert that it was in fact an act of treachery. [Ibid.] It may be that the House Atreides was first distinguished here by the heroics of Demetrios Atriedes. [op. cit., page 56]
The battle will take its name from a quasi-nebula that was in turn named after the nearby planet Corrin. This quasi-nebula had resulted from the collision of a planetoid with a sub-stellar companion of Sigma Draconis. [op. cit., page 169]
One finds, incidentally, that there were two ancient battles fought at Coroneia in mainland Greece on the road from Thebes to Phocis: The first in 447 B.C.E. saw the defeat of the Athenians by the Boeotians; the second in 394 B.C.E., the nominal victory of Agesilaus II, King of Sparta, over the Thebans and their allies. In the latter battle, Xenophon and others of the legendary Ten Thousand fought on the Spartan side. [HG, pages 301 and 544]
Sigma Draconis is relatively close to Old Earth (18.8 ly.)-one might say, in the Sirian Sector. It is interesting that this battle took place so close to mankind's birthplace. The star name of Alsafi is taken from the Arabic Athafiyy, "cooking tripods". [SN, page 212] (Are we to be reminded of the Death Tripod of the desert executioner?)
It is part of the constellation Draco, the "dragon", which is associated with the obvious mythical monsters, including Tiamat and the dragon which guarded the Golden Fleece. [NA, pages 511-512]
The alpha star of Draco, called "Thuban", was the Pole Star 4000 years ago (the honor now belonging to Polaris, thanks to the wobble of the Earth's axis). As such, it may have been to this star that the ancient Egyptians aligned some of their temples and pyramids. [Ibid.] Furthermore, the Chinese regarded the stars that revolved around the celestial North Pole and the Pole Star as the heavenly equivalent of their own terrestrial "Middle Kingdom", centered on the Emperor. [OZ, page 88] Perhaps this is why Herbert placed the epochal space battle here.
The *Arrakis is also in this constellation, and the Atreides may have their historical origins (ignoring their Homeric genealogical claim) in the Mockmuhl cluster near Upsilon Draconis. [DE, page 56] And as will be explained, Gamont and Grumman also revolve about a star in Draco.
The Encyclopedist informs us of another planet of Sigma Draconis: Ishkal. The language of this planet provided the word "shai-hulud" to the Zensunni ancestors of the Fremen-originally it stood for an extinct but formidable vermiform creature native to Ishkal. [DE, page 236] Since it is not mentioned in the Dune Chronicles, I have not listed it separately but note its putative existence here.
Star System Data:
Star Designation: Sigma Draconis
Star Name: Alsafi
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=19:32:18, DEC=69deg39'47''
Galactic Coordinates: b=21.94deg, l=101.41deg
Distance from Old Earth: 18.8 ly.
Spectral Type: K0 V (Orange, Main Sequence)
Magnitude: 4.67
Absolute Magnitude: 5.87
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. ?
IV. Ishkal
? Corrin
C. Delta Kaising III
This planet, along with Salusa Secundus, is the source of shigawire.
I am unable to identify a constellation called (apparently in Chinese) "Kai Sing". There is a Kien Sing, an asterism in Sagittarius. It is unknown if it was intended
******
D. Ecaz: The Sculptor's Paradise
"Men and their works have been a disease on the surface of their planets before now."
-from the dying thoughts of Liet-Kynes , _Dune_, page 275
Ecaz is called the "Sculptor's Paradise" because it is home to fogwood, a plant that can be shaped by thought alone. It is also called the "Greenhouse Planet" because of its bizarre biological products in general. [DE, page 196] It in fact offers a pharmacopoeia of narcotics: elacca drug, semuta, verite, and even sapho (the mentat's drug of choice).
This is said to have come about because the planet was "slagged", i.e., made the object of an all-out assault with atomics, in 7033 B.G. The contaminated planet was left uninhabited for thousands of years, during which time mutation ran riot. [op.cit., pages 196-197]
Ecaz is the fourth planet of Alpha Centauri B. As such it is a part of the nearest star system to Old Earth (any putative Nemesis excepted!) and the third brightest star in our night sky. It consists of an A and B star, a fact discovered as early as 1689, with a distant companion called Proxima, discovered in 1915. The last is so called because it is the nearest to Earth of the three. The orbital period of A and B is about 80 years. [CH, v. I, pages 549-550]
If one were to view Sol from this star system, it would be a first magnitude star in Perseus, near the border of that constellation and Cassiopeia. [op.cit., page 550]
This proximity to Earth makes it highly unlikely, in my opinion, that the planet will not be discovered until the Encyclopedia's date of 8112 B.G. [DE, page 196] (One may also note that the planetary name is always misspelled as "Ecas" in the entry for "Elaccawood" in the "Terminology of the Imperium" appended to _Dune_.)
Alpha Centauri is called Rigel Kent from Al Rijl al Kentaurus, "hoof of the Centaur" in Arabic. [SN, page 152] The constellation Centaur, of which it is a part, is mythically interpreted as the centaur Chiron, so wise that he was tutor to Jason, Achilles, Heracles, and Aesclapius. [NA, page 475]
The Encyclopedist mentions that the third planet of Alpha Centauri B will be called Logi. It is said to be the birthplace of Thufir Hawat. [DE, page 299]
Star System Data:
Star Designation: Alpha Centauri B
Star Name: Rigel Kent
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=14:39:34, DEC=-60deg49'44"
Galactic Coordinates: b=-1.06deg, l=316.07deg
Distance from Old Earth: 4.4 ly.
Spectral Type: K1 V (Orange, Main Sequence)
Magnitude: 1.35
Absolute Magnitude: 5.70
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. Logi
IV. Ecaz
******
E. Galacia
"Oh-h-h, the Galacian girls
Will do it for pearls,
And the Arrakeen for water!
But if you desire dames
Like consuming flames,
Try a Caladanin daughter!"
-"Galacian Girls", sung by Gurney Halleck, _Dune_, page 34
Other than this female preference for pearls (surely not exclusive), I find nothing else about this planet in the Chronicles.
There is a region in Poland on the northern slopes of the Carpathian Mountains called Galicia. A better prospect in view of Herbert's classical interests is the region of northwestern Spain known as Galicia to us but as Gallaecia to the Romans. [EB, "Galicia", vol. IX, page 975]
Spanish Galicia is a region of mineral wealth, and Pliny mentions a precious stone _gemma Gallaecia_. [Ibid.] It is, of course, not a source of pearls.
******
F. Gamont: The Pleasure Planet
"Who's that knocking at my door?"
"Who's that knocking at my door?"
"Who's that knocking at my door?"
Said the fair young maiden.
"D'ye ken me still, I'm Barnacle Bill,
O' the 'Rakis Royal Navy.
And here I stand, come from 'neath the sand,
With the 'Rakis Royal Navy."
--A Ditty from Gamont, _Dune Encyclopedia_, page 263.
Gamont is the third planet of the star Niushe and will be known for its hedonistic culture. While the Encyclopedist makes it all seem rather innocent by his amusing reference to the above survival-old even in our own time!-and his entry under this subject in general, one should recall that Baron Harkonnen purchased a boy from Gamont for his pleasure and had him drugged into submission. [DU, page 186]
Dama, the Great Honored Matre, later mentioned Gamont in a list of conquered planets. One can be assured that the Honored Matres found this world a delicious conquest! [CP, page 223]
Niushe is the Chinese name for Psi Draconis and means "Palace Governess" or "Literary Woman". The ordinary name for this star, Dsiban, is a corruption of the Arabic Al Dhibain, meaning the "Hyenas", an asterism the Arabs saw in this and surrounding stars. [SN, page 212]
For discussion of the constellation Draco, see "Corrin" and "Arrakis".
Actually Psi Draconis is a binary star whose components are 30" apart. I am associating Niushe with the primary star of the two.
Star System Data:
Star Designation: Psi1 Draconis
Star Name: Dsiban (Niushe)
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=17:41:52, DEC=72deg08'57"
Galactic Coordinates: b=31.11deg, l=102.95deg
Distance from Old Earth: 71.9 ly.
Spectral Type: F5 IV (White, Subgiant)
Magnitude: 4.57
Absolute Magnitude: 2.85
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. Grumman
III. Gamont
******
G. Grumman
Grumman is the second planet of Niushe and the home planet of House Moritani, who fought and defeated the House Ginaz in a war of assassins.
The House Ginaz will be an ally of the Atreides; and Duncan Idaho (the Original), their Swordmaster. Their defeat in 10181 was a prelude to the disaster on Dune ten years later. [DE, pages 501-502]
It is believed that Grumman will be the native planet of Nayla, the Fish Speaker whose loyalty Leto II so cruelly twisted to consummate his sacrifice. [DE, page 396]
The planetary name may have been suggested by the name for Xi Draconis: Grumium, meaning "jaw (of the dragon)". [SN, page 211] For comments on the star and constellation, see "Corrin", "Gamont", and "Arrakis".
Star System Data:
See Star System Data for "Gamont".
******
H. Hagal: The Jewel Planet
Called the "Jewel Planet" from the gem mining that will take place there, Hagal's mines were mostly exhausted by the time of Shaddam I. The throne of Shaddam IVwas made from a single piece of Hagal quartz. [DU, page 457] Not to be outdone, Paul Muad'dib had his throne cut from a single Hagal emerald. [DM, page 134-but Hagal here is misspelled "Hagar".]
According to the Encylopedist, Shaddam I's reign was from 482 to 553 A.G., with a hiatus in 548-549. [DE, page 200] It is also said that Duncan Idaho (the Original) was sent to a Harkonnen slave labor camp on Hagal after the defeat of House Ginaz. [op. cit., page 318] A low-tech mining operation in a location considered "played out" for nine thousand years seems a bit unlikely, even for the greedy Harkonnens-but there you have it!
If some future interplanetary prospector wished to get there before the Corrinos and Harkonnens, he would find that the locale is unfortunately a bit uncertain. Hagal is supposed to be "II Theta Shaowei". Shaou Wei is Chinese, meaning the "Minor Guard". This name or similar is attached to two individual stars: Beta Cephei and Chi Ursae Majoris. [SN, pages 158 and 445] We are, of course, looking for a constellation or, at least, an asterism. Camelopardalis is supposed to contain an asterism called Shaou Wei, but Bayer designations are not commonly used in this constellation after Alpha, Beta, and Gamma. [op. cit., page 107] There is a region in Leo, toward Virgo, which was sometimes called by the name. [op. cit., page 254] Given that there is a well-known theta in Leo, I would conclude that our Theta Shaowei is most likely Theta Leonis.
The common name for this star is Chort, from the Arabic Al Horatan, once a name for Theta and Delta, meaning "two little ribs". [op. cit., pages 260 and 263] The constellation Leo is, of course, one of the signs of the Zodiac.
Star System Data:
Star Designation: Theta Leonis (Shaowei)
Star Name: Chort
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=11:14:14, DEC=15deg25'44"
Galactic Coordinates: b=64.98deg, l=236.7deg
Distance from Old Earth: 177.6 ly.
Spectral Type: A2 V (Blue-white, Main Sequence)
Magnitude: 3.32
Absolute Magnitude: -0.36
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. Hagal
(Part Three of Five--to be continued)
The Stars and Planets of Frank Herbert's _Dune_: A Gazetteer
By Joseph M. Daniels
(c) 1999 (14201 B.G.), All rights reserved.
************
This is Part Three of Five, in two halves, continued.
************
I. Ix and Richese
"Do not fear the Ixians. ...They can make the machines, but they can no longer make arafel."
-- Leto II, _God Emperor of Dune_, page 420
It is ironical that in the "Terminology of the Imperium" the entry for Ix says only "see Richese": for we hear little of Richese in the Dune Chronicles but much of Ix. I say that in spite of the fact that we meet no Ixians until _God Emperor of Dune_, but their products play a significant part throughout, providing perhaps the bête noire which Leto II's "Golden Path" sought to avoid [CD, page 350; GE, pages 13, 235, 345, 348, 420].
These planets, supreme in technology, somehow managed to avoid the consequences of the Butlerian Jihad, and we are directed to an as yet non-existent book for an explanation, viz., _The Last Jihad_.
We have, of course, the _Dune Encyclopedia_, which attempts to supply the missing information. We are told that Ix (then known as "Komos") was once an agrarian planet dominated by the technologically advanced planet Richese. The people of Komos, led by Jehanne Butler (230-182 B.G.), rebelled, conquered Richese, exiled the technocrats to Komos, and launched the Butlerian Jihad upon the Galaxy. In the process, Richese itself was abandoned for almost two and a half centuries. [DE, page 137-143, 348-351, 436-437]
The exiled technocrats of Richese renamed Komos as "Ix" and founded there the technological society we have come to know as Ixian. Eventually they repopulated Richese and used it as a manufacturing center. [Ibid.]
It is said that Aurelius Venport (140-79 B.G.) and Norma Cenva (148-78 B.G.) were Ixians. [DE, pages 497 and 153] You may recall that these two will be responsible for the design of the first Guild ship. [GE, page 183]
(Please see "Tupile" and "Arrakis" for discussions of problems relating to this couple, the Guild, and the spice melange. Also note that DE has "Cevna" in lieu of "Cenva"! [pages 153-155 and elsewhere] )
The name of Richese may be related to the Galach name for the Houses Minor: "Richece". Ix, of course, is supposed to be derived from the Roman numeral for the number nine, Ix being the ninth planet of its star system. The later Ixians will not know this derivation. [CD, page 282 and 385]
I do not wish to complicate matters but _ix_ is Yucatec Mayan for the title "lady". [BM, page 173] Now the Encyclopedist relates that the religion of Komos centered on a Mother Goddess named Kubebe, served by an order of priestesses. [DE, page 349] I would have assumed this just a meaningless coincidence, but incredibly, the Classic Mayan word for "lady" was _na_! [BM, page 173] Is "na-Baron" an inside joke? If so, "Ix" is as well; and the supposed ignorance of the Ixians, a bit of irony.
While on the subject of names, I would mention that the capital of Richese is supposed to be Lugdunum-the Roman name for the city of Lyons, France. (But why?) [DE, page 436]
Ix and Richese are planets of the star Eridani A. (Although to be precise, canon only implies that Ix is in the same star system as Richese. The Encyclopedist states it flatly. [DE, pages 348 and 436] ) The star name is clearly truncated: The suffixed "A" should indicate the primary star in a multiple star system, so there should be a Bayer letter or Flamsteed number preceding the name of the constellation-especially since the constellation is in the genitive case: Eridani meaning "of Eridanus".
Normally such an elision would leave one helpless to designate any particular star in Eridanus as that of Ix and Richese. I asked myself, however, if there were any star with "Eridani A" in its nomenclature which might have suggested itself to Herbert. In fact, there is.
Appearing forty-first in the "list of nearest stars", commonly appended to astronomical reference books, is 40 Eridani A, which is also usually listed as Omicron2 Eridani A. (Sikun's star, by the way, appears forty-third on this list.) The ambivalence of its nomenclature might have suggested (or even caused) the shortened form used by Herbert.
In any case, the star system is "a remarkable triple star system, containing the classic example of a white dwarf star for the small telescope" since it is eighth nearest of the naked-eye stars. Sir William Herschel first measured the separation of the A and B components in 1783. [CH, v. II, page 890] The white dwarf, designated as the B star, was the first star of this type to be recognized as such (even before Sirius B) and itself has a red dwarf companion as discovered by Otto Struve in 1851. [Ibid.]
This red dwarf-40 Eridani C-is perhaps the star of Seprek, the fourth planet of "Eridani C" according to the Encyclopedist. [DE, page 396] (I have included it among the "Terrae Incognitae" since Seprek is not mentioned in _Dune_, but in the _God Emperor of Dune_.)
The star system of 40 (or Omicron2 )Eridani is called Keid, from the Arabic Al Kaid, meaning "the egg shells". [SN, page 220]
If I have reasoned correctly and the A star of Keid is the sun of Ix and Richese, then the statement by the Encyclopedist suggesting that Eridani A was "oddly situated within its galaxy [sic], which in turn was on the fringes of human settlement" is problematic. [DE, page 350] One would, after all, hardly call a star within 16 light years of Old Earth "oddly situated". Reference to "its galaxy" (as if not the Galaxy) seems like a serious error regardless of the correctness of my speculations. Any star whose nomenclature included reference to a constellation from the skies of Earth would have to be in our galaxy and probably in the Orion Arm (see "Mapping the Imperium").
The Encyclopedist offered this misinformation as part of an explanation of how Ix managed to preserve its isolation so as to elude the consequences of the Jihad during its rebuilding phase. I believe he was on stronger ground when he also ascribed it to the naturally severe disruption of human civilization in the neighborhood of Eridani A as the veritable epicenter of the destructive wave. [Ibid.]
Star System Data:
Star Designation: 40(Omicron2 )Eridani A
Star Name: Keid
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=4:15:16, DEC=-7deg39'24"
Galactic Coordinates: b=-37.46deg, l=200.99deg
Distance from Old Earth: 16.5 ly.
Spectral Type: K1 V (Orange, Main Sequence)
Magnitude: 4.43
Absolute Magnitude: 5.92
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. ?
IV. Richese
V. ?
VI. ?
VII. ?
VIII. ?
IX. Ix (Komos)
Planetary Data:
Designation: 40 Eridani A IV
Common Name: Richese
Diameter: 55,000 km. [DE, page 436]
Capital: Lugdunum
Designation: 40 Eridani A IX
Common Name: Ix, previously Komos
Diameter: 40,000 km. [DE, page 348]
******
J. Kaitain: The Imperial Court
The Imperial Court was removed to Kaitain from Salusa Secundus in 1487 A.G. [DE, page 513] The problem is what was Kaitain? The name of a star system? Or a planet?
I cannot recall a reference to a place in the Dune Chronicles that was a referent to a star system, rather than a particular planet. (One looks in vain for a star name-Al Lat excepted-in the alphabetical entries of the "Terminology of the Imperium".) On the other hand, as has been clearly established, planets were named after stars.
Since there is a star named *Kaitain, it should be no surprise if there were a planet which will be its namesake and which will become the Imperial Capital. If this is so, then I am unable to say what star this planet orbits; for such information is never revealed: it is always just "Kaitain".
The name "Kaitain" is a variant name of Alpha Piscium and is from the Arabic al ukd al haitain, meaning "the knot of the cords", the cord, that is, binding the two fish of the constellation Pisces together. The ordinary common name of the star is Alrischa, perhaps derived from a Babylonian word for "cord". [SN, page 342]
*Kaitain has the Galactic Coordinates: b= -55.08, l= 156.14 and is, as noted, the alpha star of the Zodiacal constellation Pisces. It is a binary star of 3.82 apparent magnitude, 139.1 ly. away, and spectral type A2 (Blue-white).
One remembers that @Salusa Secundus, circling Gamma Piscium, was perhaps the namesake of Gamma Arietis Secundus. It would be too much to assert, but not so absurd as to preclude, a possible literary allusion here. Could Herbert have originally intended @Kaitain to circle Alpha Aquarii? Thus the procession of the Imperial Capital would mimic the precession of the vernal equinox: Aries to Pisces to Aquarius. Alpha Aquarii, incidenally, has the common name of Sadalmelik, meaning something like "Luck of the King" in Arabic.
Planetary Data:
Sidereal Period: 360.001 rotations [DE, page 146]
******
K. Sikun
Sikun will be the home of the Akarso plant. About it little else was said. This planet orbits the star 70 Ophiuchi A, which has a bit more distinction.
As noted above, it is one of the closest stars to Earth (forty-third closest at only 16.6 light years away). Since it is a binary star, as discovered by Sir William Herschel in 1779, the system has been thoroughly studied. So much so that permutations have been discovered in the orbits of the components that have led some to hypothesize a Jupiter-sized planet in the system. [CH, v. II, page 1235-1236] It is not, however, on the most current list of confirmed extra-solar planets as of this writing. The following table from "http://www.obspm.fr/planet" lists main sequence stars believed to be orbited by planets or "brown dwarfs":
Star Designation Distance Planetary Mass Sem.-Maj. Axis
(parsecs) (in Jupiters) (in A.U.)
51 Pegasi 15.4 .47 .05
HD 187123 50.0 .52 .042
UpsilonAndromedae 16.5 .68 .057
55 Cancri 13.4 .084 .11
Rho Cor.Borealis 16.7 1.1 .23
HD 217107 37.0 1.28 .04
HD210277 ~22 1.37 1.15
16 Cygni B ~22 1.5 .06-2.7
Gliese 876 4.72 2.1 .21
47 Ursae Majoris 14.1 2.8 2.11
14 Herculis 17.0 3.3 2.5
HD 195019 20.0 3.43 .14
Tau Bootis ~15 3.87 .0462
HD168443 ~33 ~0.2
70 Virginis 18.1 6.6 .43
HD 114762 28 10 .3
HD 110833 ~17 17 ~0.8
BD-04 782 21 ~0.7
HD112758 ~16.5 35 ~0.35
HD 98230 37 ~0.06
HD 18445 39 ~0.9
HD 29587 ~45 40 ~2.5
HD 140913 46 ~0.54
HD 283750 ~16.5 50 ~0.04
HD 89707 ~25
HD 217580 ~18 60 ~1
Gl 229 6.7 ~40 ~40
But if this planet does exist, perhaps some day a fan of Herbert's will suggest at the right moment to name it "Sikun".
Star System Data:
Star Designation: 70 Ophiuchi A
Star Name: None
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=18:05:25, DEC=2deg30'2"
Galactic Coordinates: b=10.82deg, l=30.19deg
Distance from Old Earth: 16.6 ly.
Spectral Type: K0 V (Orange, Main Sequence)
Magnitude: 4.03
Absolute Magnitude: 5.5
Known Planets:
? Sikun
******
L. Tleilax
"Gholas. He's welcome to them."
--Daniel, _Chapterhouse: Dune_, page 433.
If a person were to read only _Dune_, he would have little appreciation of the importance of Tleilax, which was defined as a renegade training center for mentats and the source of "twisted" mentats. Yet from the beginning of _Dune Messiah_, where Herbert introduces Scytale, the Face Dancer, they figure large indeed: in fact the last sentence of the Chronicles, the limit of our vision of this possible future, concerns him and his race.
Although the Order of Mentats founded by Gilbertus Albans will indeed seek temporary refuge among the Tleilaxu, they will avoid being incorporated into the Wekht of Jandola and seed their schools so widely that even Leto II could not surpress them utterly. [CP, page 230]
In the _Dune Messiah_ we learn about the disturbing biological experiments of the Tleilaxu and their "axolotl" (later "axlotl") tanks. [For the spelling deviation, contrast DM, page 22 with GE, page 44.] And we begin to get some hint of their ambitious and incredibly long-term plan.
There actually is such a thing as an axolotl: it is the larval form of a salamander found in the waters of Lake Xochimilco near Mexico City. Normally they never metamorphize, remaining in the water and reaching sexual maturity in this apparently permanent larval stage. This species had been a long accepted aquarium breeding animal, when in 1865 at the Jardins des Plantes in Paris, several individuals transformed into what appeared to be a form of the tiger salamander. [EB, "Axolotl", vol. II, page 821] It was then discovered that this process could be brought about at will by feeding the axolotl thyroid gland. It will thereafter lose its gills and emerge from the water as an adult newt-the entire process taking only a couple of weeks. [op.cit., "Metamorphosis", vol. XV, page 326]
So when we think of the Tleilaxu axolotl tanks, one should imagine the aquarium at the Jardin des Plantes? Peut-être non. One does have to wait a long time for a full description. [See HD, page 426 and CP, page 55] Indeed, the Encyclopedist goes farther awry in discussing this subject and the post-scattering fate of the Bene Tleilax than most other subjects. [DE, pages 106-107 and 489-491]
"Axolotl" is clearly a word of Nahuatl (i.e., Aztec) origin, so it is reasonable to look to that language for the name of the planet and race-Tleilax and Tleilaxu (or Bene Tleilax). Several problems arise.
I have as yet not found "tleilax" or a very close parallel in that language. (There is a possibility that requires more of a stretch-see below.) While the "tl" is obviously a characteristic of Nahuatl (!), the "-x" ending does not seem so common. For a place name, one might expect an ending in -o, -c, -tlan, -lan, -yan, -pan, -can, or -tla. [RA, pages 95 and 96] The plural suffix "-u" does not seem appropriate either.
As others and myself have noted, there is the Aztec god with a vaguely similar name: Tlaloc. His name would seem to connect him with earth (tlalli) [op. cit., page 5] but he was a god of rain and lightning and the mountains from which these were seen to come. He presided over spirits of the mountains and weather called Tlaloque (plural of Tlaloc). [GS, page 166-7] Children were sacrificed to him by drowning them in lakes or sealing them in caves. Such child sacrifices were unique to Tlaloc. [FS, page 213] ...And such grimness suggests the Bene Tleilax and their genetic experiments.
One might expect a planet of Tlaloc to be called Tlalocan (as the mythic fourth heaven of the Aztecs and his real temple were in fact called). [GS, page 167] But more serious objections can be raised to Tlaloc/Tlaloque yielding Tleilax/Tleilaxu.
First, one notes a double change in vowels: "a" becomes "ei", "o" becomes "a". Secondly, to an English-speaking reader "x", pronounced "ks", seems close to a finial hard "c", but in post-Conquest Nahuatl orthography, the letter "-x" indicated the sound "-sh"! [RA, page 5] So the third of three consonants is altered also: Did "tl-a-l-o-c" become "tl-ei-l-a-sh"? Etymologically, that seems difficult, but we are talking about a work of fiction-it only had to seem right to the author!
Herbert, by the way, pronounced the name of the Tleilaxu as "tlee-laks-oo" as, for example, his recording of _Heretics of Dune_ indicates.
We also have to contend with the "bene" in Bene Tleilax. Given the revelations of the fifth and sixth books of the Dune Chronicles, one would suppose the Tleilaxu would have gone for the Semitic "Beni" or "B'nai" Tleilax, that is, "Sons of Tleilax". I suggest that they originally did but that false analogy with the name of the Bene Gesserit had corrupted "beni" to "bene". (I greatly prefer this explanation to an attempt to find Semitic origins for "Bene Gesserit", a perfectly good Latin phrase: "She will have conducted herself well." This hints at, "She will have given birth well", if we supply the Kwisatz Haderach as the implied object of the verb _gero, gerere_.)
No doubt the similarity in names, whether the product of a false analogy or not, was supposed to suggest further valid analogies to us readers.
Oh, yes, I forgot to tell you: the Tlaloque of Mexican mythology were dwarves. Perhaps when Herbert describes the Tleilaxu Master Tylwyth Waff as "elfin figure barely a meter and a half tall", he is telling us something more than just his height. [HD, page 46]. One also recalls a reference to "...the face dancers and little people from the suspected artisan planets of the Tleilaxu...." [CD, page 40]
The planet Tleilax is the lone planet of the star Thalim. When I discovered that Beta Eridani, usually known as Cursa, has also been called Dhalim, I assumed I had the right identification. The dental and alveolar plosives are, after all, easily exchanged. It seems, however, that the name Thalim, Arabic Al Thalim meaning "the Ostrich", better belongs to Theta Eridani. [SN, pages 217-219]
Now the constellation Eridanus is the "Celestial River", associated with various streams, mythical and real: the Ocean Stream, the Euphrates, but especially with the Nile. In modern times Eridanus stretches from Cursa (above mentioned) to Achernar, a name derived from the Arabic Al Ahir al Nahr, "the End of the River". It was not always so. In ancient times Eridanus reached only to Theta Eridani. It is not surprising then that its proper name, Acamar, is another form of Achenar's name. [Ibid.]
Acamar is in fact a binary star, and I have arbitrarily chosen the primary star as the sun of Tleilax. At a distance of 161.3 ly. from Old Earth, it hardly fits the Encyclopedist's description of it as an "isolated" planet, "hard to reach". Once again (see "Ix and Richese"), this seems to be an ill-founded attempt to explain why a technologically oriented planet survived the Butlerian Jihad. Perhaps in this case it would be better to look to random chance.
Star System Data:
Star Designation: Theta Eridani A
Star Name: Acamar (Thalim)
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=2:50:16, DEC=-40deg18'37"
Galactic Coordinates: b=-61.90deg, l=248.19deg
Distance from Old Earth: 161.3 ly.
Spectral Type: A4 III (Blue-White, Giant)
Magnitude: 2.88
Absolute Magnitude: -0.59
Known Planets:
I. Tleilax
Planetary Data:
Capital: Bandalong [HD, pages 44 and 48]
******
M. Tupile
"Were I to seek Tupile by prescience, this might hide Tupile."
-Paul Muad'dib, _Dune Messiah_, page 60.
Tupile-or the Tupiles, since the name probably designates more than one planet-was the secret sanctuary for defeated Houses of the Imperium, maintained by the Guild. The Guild did its job so well that not only Paul Atreides, but even the yet more prescient readers of the Dune Chronicles are largely left in the dark about its nature and location.
Not so the God Emperor. After all, Leto had no problem discerning the secret Ixian Core and the Ixian attempt to plant a colony far outside the Empire [GE, page 152]. The fact that Tupile is not mentioned after _Dune Messiah_ may well testify to the clarity of Leto's vision in this matter as well.
And not so the Encyclopedist! It is said that about 110 B.G. Ixian exiles, led by Aurelius Venport and Norma Cenva, will choose Tupile as a place to conduct their experiments: the object of which will be to perfect a replacement for computer controlled interstellar travel. Tupile will have been recently ravaged by the Butlerian Jihad and favorably disposed to welcome the newcomers. Here Venport is to found The Society of Mystic Mariners, predecessor organization to the Spacing Guild. [DE, pages 495-496, inter alia]
None of this is essentially anti-canonical. Logically the founding of the Guild must precede the era designated as "After Guild"! And Leto II, as noted under "Ix and Richese", informs us that Venport and Cenva designed the first Guild ship. That this couple was Ixian and that Tupile was the site of the Guild's foundation are reasonable extensions to the story.
The problem is that the Encyclopedist is firmly committed to the notion that the spice melange was a prerequisite for the Guild's original success. He quotes a schoolboy poem: "Without Guild, no Spice. Without Spice, no Guild." [DE, page 464] Unfortunately, this means Arrakis had to be discovered by the beginning of the Guild Era-ten thousand years before Muad'dib. I find this discordant with other statements in the Chronicles and even within the _Dune Encyclopedia_. It seems far too early.
The Encyclopedist himself seems uncomfortable with his own hypothesis and realizes that it begs the question: how did the Guild discover Arrakis and the Spice? He admits that the discovery of the navigational uses of melange is "an historical puzzle". [Ibid.] (See "Arrakis" for further discussion.)
******
N. Wallach IX
Wallach IX will be the site of the Mother School of the Bene Gesserit and is the ninth planet of Laoujin. This simple statement contains several mysteries. First, a planet called Wallach IX should orbit a star called "Wallach"! Second, one is stunned to find that Laoujin, meaning "the old man", is the Chinese name for Canopus, the sun of Dune! In fact it was a name under which the Chinese worshipped Canopus as late as 100 B.C.E. [SN, page 71]
Any explanation is speculative; and one cannot entirely rule out a careless error on Herbert's part. Presently my own inclination is to imagine that the Bene Gesserit renamed Wallach in honor of Canopus and its third planet.
At first I considered that the star names might really indicate that Wallach IX and Dune were in the same star system. But if there is any hard evidence at all, it is this: the sun of Wallach IX was described as a "small blue-white sun". [DM, page 17] Now "small" is a relative term, and a ninth planet is far from its sun, but a star's color is another matter: if Laoujin is blue-white (spectral type A) then it cannot be Canopus (spectral type F). One remembers the "milky light of the Arakeen sun" [DU, page 61], which at sunset was depicted as "a silvery yellow half circle" [HD, page 298]. So we can at least exclude the possibility that Canopus was intended by "Laoujin". But we have no other information suggesting a possible location of Laoujin (Wallach) and its ninth planet.
Wallach is an appropriately gothic name to attach to the Bene Gesserit Mother School. Wallachia, "land of the Vlachs", is the country between the Transylvanian Alps and the Danube River, lying in modern Romania. One has only to recall that the prototype for Count Dracula was Vlad the Impaler, Voivode (Prince) of Wallachia.
I presume that Wallach IX is intended by Dama, the Great Honored Matre, when she mentions "Wallach" in a list of conquered planets. [CP, page 223]
Star System Data:
Star Name: (Laoujin, formerly Wallach?)
Spectral Type: A
Known Planets:
I. ?
II. ?
III. ?
IV. ?
V. ?
VI. ?
VII. ?
VIII. ?
IX. Wallach IX
************
Part Four: Terrae Incognitae
"A refuge: Chapter House Planet. Such planets were not even recipients of names anymore; only numbers somewhere in Archives."
-Alma Mavis Taraza, _Heretics of Dune_, page 217.
******
Table of Stellar and Planetary Names
These names appeared in _Dune Messiah_, _Children of Dune_, _God Emperor of Dune_, _Heretics of Dune_, and _Chapterhouse: Dune_.
Place Name, First Mentioned: Comment
@ Al Dhanab, HD, page 338: A harsh planet to which Darwi Odrade will be sent after her spice agony. Presumably named after Deneb (Alpha Cygni).
* Al Dhanab, HD, page 180: This star, presumably Alpha Cygni, possessed an "artificialworld" which was one of the Bene Gesserit's original "safe" planets. It was also the site of a nursery school, to which the young Darwi Odrade was sent.
Alajory, HD, page 386: The location of a catastrophic explosion unknown to Miles Teg. Alajory may be a location on Gammu and thus not properly on this list.
Arbelough, HD, page 255: Here the great Bashar Miles Teg risked his personal safety to go to the front lines. A victory, of course, ensued.
Atar, DM, page 127: A planet with notably low gravity.
Barandiko, HD, page 143: Miles Teg and Alma Mavis Taraza prevent a bloody confrontation here.
Biarek, CD, page 396: Its Central Temple was besieged during the rebellions following the fall of St. Alia's regency.
Buzzell, CP, page 21: The planet of exile for the Reverend Mother Dortujla was a cold planet, mostly ocean, producing "soostones".
Cedon, DM, page 124: A planet which produced "fire jewels".
Cerbol, HD, page 232: Where Miles Teg put down a revolt single-handedly.
Chapter House Planet, HD, page 11: The headquarters of the Bene Gesserit, occupied about a hundred years after the death of the God Emperor. [For chronology, compare HD, page 10 and 217] It was eventually to become another Dune. [CP, page 272]
Dan, Planets of, GE, page 42: There was talk of a new jihad here and on Parella (q.v.). Presumably these planets of Dan should not be confused with the later, shortened name for the planet Caladan. [see HD, page 123]
Dur, HD, page 389: A place in the Scattering connected with the Honored Matres: Field Marshal Jaffa Muzzafar commands its forces, seems to consider "the Dur" as home, and refers to "the Eternal Rock of Dur". [HD, page 392] An Honored Matre, however, enjoins Teg to "praise Dur". [op. cit., page 433] As a personal name, "Dur" or "Guldur" is a designation used for Leto II-on Gammu [op. cit., page 402] and in the Scattering [CP, page 81]. Perhaps Guldur is a corruption of "God Emperor".
Enfiel, DM, page 51: The planet where the old Fremen Farok saw an ocean for the first time.
Foum al-Hout, CD, page 307: The southern polestar of Dune. No doubt our Fomalhaut.
Gangishree, DM, page 144: A proverbially distant (and perhaps impoverished) place.
Gansireed, CD, page 238: A planet on which there is a village named London, better known than the original by Leto II's time.
IV Anbus, DM, page 205: Tibana, a Socratic Christian apologist, was born here.
Junction, HD, page 114: An important Guild planet over which the Honored Matres gained control. It was not, however, the only "junction" planet. There were many. [CP, page 357]
Kadesh, CD, page 154: From whence came Tagir Mohandis, the troubadour.
Kadrish, CD, page 248: The denizens of "far Kadrish" were known for their foppish habits.
Kroinin, HD, page 255: Here the Bashar Miles Teg decisively defeated anti-Sisterhood forces.
Lampadas, HD, page68: Bene Gesserit stronghold. By the time of Darwin Odrade's ascendancy, it was a school planet. [CP, page 3] Later it was to be the site of a major catastrophe. [op. cit., pages 28-30]
Lernaeus, HD, page 34: Ancestral home of Miles Teg's family. It has a yellow sun. [HD, page 64]
Markon, HD, page 254: Where Miles Teg's reputation alone won the battle without a fight.
Molitor, DM, page 47: The site of an important victory of the Fremen Jihad.
Muritan, DM, page 170: A Fremen mother asked Alia to prophesy about her son who allegedly died there.
Naraj Worlds, DM, pages 44-45: Farok's son lost his eyes during their conquest.
Niushe, CP, page 223: Apparently a planet named after the star of Gamont and Grumman. It was mentioned on a list of planets conquered by the Honored Matres.
Novebruns, CD, page 369: A planet purchased from the Metulli Family for 321 liters of the spice melange in the days of Gurney Halleck.
Palma, CP, page 5: A planet where 1100 Reverend Mothers will be "written off".
Parella, GE, page 42: Moneo reports to the God Emperor that there was talk of a new jihad on Parella.
Perth, GE, page 333: A place where a rare transite tongue is spoken.
Ponciard, HD, page 355: A battle remembered by Miles Teg during a mind probe.
Reenol, CP, page 223: Its name is on a list of planets conquered by the Honored Matres.
Renditai, HD, page 382: Veterans who had served with him there helped Miles Teg on Gammu.
Roc, CP, page 407: The captive Honored Matre Murbella had come from there.
Romo, HD, page 64: Where Miles Teg's brother Sabine was poisoned.
Sembou, DM, page 100: Another site of a victory of the Fremen Jihad.
Semboule, DM, page 232: The name of a treaty read and signed by the blind Maud'dib, perhaps connected with the victory at Sembou.
Seprek, GE, page 81: The garrison from which Leto II summoned the Fish Speaker Nayla was located on this planet. It's sun is Eridani C. [DE, page 396]
Tarahell, DM, page 177: The conquered planet on which Otheym the Fedaykin contracted the spitting disease.
Zabulon, DM, page 106: A place on the agenda of the Fremen Jihad.
************
Part Five: Harkonnen and Atreides
"Democritus, son of Damasippus an Abderite, consulted with the Gymnosophists in India and with the priests in Egypt and with the astrologers and wise men in Babylon. ...And he would say that the realities were always moving in the void; and there are an infinite number of worlds differing in size; in some there is neither sun nor moon, in others they are larger than ours, and in others there are many suns and moons. The distances between the worlds are unequal and in some quarters there are more worlds, in others fewer, and some are growing and others have reached their full size, and others are disintegrating, and in some quarters worlds are coming into being and in others they are ceasing to exist. ...And some worlds are devoid of living beings and all moisture."
-Hippolytus (d. ca. 230 C.E. or 15970 B.G.), Refutation of All Heresies, I.13.565
******
A. Giedi Prime (later Gammu)
"Gammu? He could never think of it by any name other than the original: Giedi Prime. Harkonnen hell hole."
--said of Duncan Idaho (the last), _Chapterhouse: Dune_, page 256
Giedi Prime, the planet of 36 Ophiuchi B, will be the home world of House Harkonnen and, as a consequence, the evil pole of _Dune_'s moral dialectic.
It continued to be ruled by the Harkonnens at least until late in the reign of Leto II. This is evidenced by the no-globe that Leto II allowed them to build and which was re-discovered by Patrin, Miles Teg's assistant, during his youth on this planet. [HD, page 221ff.]
Despite what is said in the _Dune Encyclopedia_, Duncan Idaho (the Original) was a native of Giedi Prime-"...born and raised there". [Op. cit., page 39]
After the Harkonnens were forced to abandon it, post-Scattering Caladanians colonized Giedi Prime. These newcomers called the planet Gammu, a name which had been given to it in the great remapping and suggested by Gurney Halleck. [Op. cit., page 123] Apparently the new name had not effectively replaced the old one until then: even Duncan Idaho (#13723) and Leto II referred to it as Giedi Prime in a policy discussion. [GE, page 13] (Or perhaps Herbert did not think of renaming Giedi Prime until after writing _God Emperor of Dune_....)
One might have expected the Caladanian colonists to sanitize the planet. Neither their efforts nor their genes succeeded totally: in the time of "Tar and Dar" the place still smelled of bitter oil, and Caladanian subtlety had merely been superimposed on earlier Harkonnen brutality. [HD, pages 23, 123-124; CP, page 33] The Reverend Mother Lucilla came to view the people of Gammu as "the gutter inhabitants on this gutter planet". [HD, pages 397-398] Sometimes one cannot transcend a bad start.
One of the principle mises-en-scène of _Heretics of Dune_, Gammu did not seem to be directly ruled by the Honored Matres, but it one of the list of conquered worlds recited by Dama, the Great Honored Matre, in _Chapterhouse: Dune_. [CP, page 423]
As I observed at the beginning of this document, @Giedi Prime was named after a star: Alpha1 Capricorni. As also noted before, one can only assume that this was done to commemorate some historical event or relationship unknown to us.
Herbert may have been motivated by another sort of symbolism: The Zodiacal constellation Capricorn is "the goat" and "Giedi" means the "kid of a goat". This might be a comment on the habits of the Harkonnens, especially their sexual habits, carnality often being associated with that animal.
Certainly the Encyclopedist saw the connection, assigning the Harkonnens a goat's head for a coat-of-arms. [DE, page 278] Unfortunately for this ascription, Herbert subsequently revealed that the "griffin" was the symbol of the Harkonnens and-if ghola Duncan Idaho's reaction is any indicator-always had been. [HD, page 221] If one wished to gloss this over, one could say that the goat's head was the arms of the barony; and the griffin, that of the family.
Alpha Capricorni or Algiedi is a complex star, consisting of the optical binary pair *Giedi Prime and Giedi Secundus. The former is yellow-white supergiant at about 543 ly. distance; the latter is a yellow-white giant at about 96 ly. distance. Each has companions and some of these are themselves binary. Perhaps there are up to 9 components in the entire group.
The star system of @Giedi Prime lies, along with Poritrin and Sikun in the constellation Ophiuchus.
Also in this constellation is the remnant of the last supernova observed in our Galaxy. This supernova is often called "Kepler's Star" after the famed astronomer, who saw it but did not actually discover it. It was observable near Theta Ophiuchi from October 9, 1604 to March 1606. At its peak it was brighter than Jupiter. [CH, vol. II, page 1249] (Other supernovae had been observed in 1006, 1054, and 1572. Flamsteed may have noted one in 1680 without being conscious of it as something unusual. [GG, page 110] )
Also in Ophiuchus is Barnard's Star, a faint, red dwarf which at 6 ly. is the next closest star to us after the Sun and the Alpha Centauri System. There is reason to believe it has one or more planets. [CH, vol. II, pages 1251-1252] But it is not on the list of currently confirmed stars with planets. (See "Sikun".)
This star also has the greatest apparent motion across the sky: it is heading due "north" at about 10.29 seconds of arc per year. And it is coming on strong; in 8000 years it will be about 4 ly. away from Old Terra. [Ibid.] On the Dune time line, of course, this is not an "out of range" number. Perhaps it will be moving away from Sol in Maud'dib's time.
The name of Ophiuchus means "serpent bearer", and there is a related constellation Serpens separated into two parts ("head" and "tail") by Ophiuchus. Ophiuchus lies in the general direction of the galactic center (ranging between 36º and 357º of galactic longitude) and borders the Milky Way.
The Greeks identified this figure with Asklepios(Latin: Aesclapius), a legendary physician and god of medicine. [NA, page558] A strange association for the Harkonnens, given that their knowledge of the pharmacopoeia seemed to be limited to chaumas and chaumurky.
As noted above, @ Giedi Prime is the lone planet of 36 Ophiuchi B, the second star of a binary star system. (Although this star was once described as "a sun and its captive planets" [CP, page 361], one presumes this was a simple error.) It was noted that it was a "median-viable planet with a low active-photosynthesis range". It is surprisingly close to Old Terra. At 19.5 ly., it would be in the Sirian Sector.
@Giedi Prime has lots of moons, but it is not clear how many will be natural satellites. [HD, pages 372-373, 417]
Star System Data:
Star Designation: 36 Ophiuchi B
Star Name: None
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=17:15:18, DEC=-26deg35'56"
Galactic Coordinates: b=6.29deg, l=358.53deg
Distance from Old Earth: 19.5 ly.
Spectral Type: K2 III (Orange, Giant), color actually "yellow-green" [HD, page 285]
Magnitude: 4.33
Absolute Magnitude: 5.44
Known Planets:
I. Giedi Prime (Gammu)
Planetary Data:
Designation: 36 Ophiuchi B I
Common Name: Giedi Prime, later Gammu
Capital: Barony, later called Ysai [HD, page 285]
Day: 31.27 Standard Hours [op. cit., page 123]
Year: 2.6 Standard Years [Ibid.]
******
B. Caladan (later Dan)
"Tell me about the waters of your birthworld, Paul Muad'dib."
-Chani, _Dune_, page 320
At the beginning of the Chronicles the Atreides had lived in Castle Caladan for twenty-six generations. [DU, page 3] The Encyclopedist gives us a list of 48 Atreides Siridar-Dukes of Caladan from Paulos XVI to Leto II the Tyrant. Paulos was said to have occupied Castle Caladan in 8722. [DE, pages 60 and 151]
The ducal list of forty-eight would seem to contradict the canonical twenty-six generations. One must, of course, exclude Muad'dib and the Tyrant since the generations were reckoned during Leto I's lifetime. Then, if one carefully avoids incorrectly counting brothers, cousins, and nephews as being in differing generations from their siblings and cousins, he finds the twenty-six-generation precondition satisfied.
The timeline seems acceptable. The twenty-six generations cover 1469 years or about 57 years per generation. This is considerably higher ratio than used in our own time: generally, about 3 generations are estimated per century. Life expectancy, thanks to the spice, will have been extended, although I know of no explanation of its effect (if any) on the onset of puberty and menopause.
It will be said that the instant Duke Leto I Atreides died a meteor streaked across the sky of Caladan above his ancestral palace. [DU, page 175] Lady Jessica will live out her existence there after the deaths of her son and daughter. [CP, page 282]
Caladan will probably be settled by the seventh century B.G. since Harmonthep in the same system received its Zensunni contingent in 6049 A.G. [DE, page 514]
At first I considered that the name of Caladan might be a corrupt form of "Caledonia", the Roman name for northern Britain. Names alluding to Scotland have certainly been attached to far-flung places: the New Hebrides, New Caledonia, and Nova Scotia come immediately to mind.
One can imagine my surprise when I discovered a much more likely origin. It seems that there is a Kaladan river in Myanmar (Burma). I did not think much of this until I discovered it was in the old Burmese province of Arakan (now Rakhine). Indeed the old capital of Arakan is on the Kaladan, about 50 miles northeast of Akyub (now Sittwe).
As I will explain at the appropriate place, I think there were other influences in the naming of @Arrakis, but I suspect that "Caladan" came from the connection of the river Kaladan with the city of Arakan. This would mean that Herbert had noticed the similarity of Arakan (Rakhine) to Arrakis (Rakis) and Arrakeen (Keen) and then made use of the name of the river.
It should come as no surprise that rice is the principal crop of this Burmese province as it is of @Caladan. But much of the land is untillable. [EB, "Arakan", vol. II, page 211]
That this Burmese origin brings us to old British India is not inappropriate either. Several titles associated with the Imperium of House Corrino are derived from Persian, court language of the Mogul emperors of India. These titles were passed through the imperial terminology of the Turkish Empire as well as bequeathed to the British Raj.
The most obvious is the Persian _pad shah_, meaning "master king", which yielded padishah. This title was used by the Ottoman ruler, the shah of Iran, the British monarch as ruler of India, and, of course, the House Corrino. It may have also been the origin of the Turkish pasha or bashaw: the latter variant obviously will be the origin of the rank of bashar used in the Imperium. [HJ, pages 70 and 652]
The Imperium will also use the rank of _caid_, which I believe derives from Ottoman terminology also. So far I can only find it attested in Moroccan titulary. [EB, vol. XIV, page 813] I do not know its ultimate origin.
Now the Imperial rank of siridar comes from _sirdar_, a British Indian term meaning a high noble, military officer, or chief servant. It was from the Persian _sar dar_, meaning literally "head of holding" or "leader". The term was also used as the title of the commander-in-chief of the Anglo-Egyptian army. [HJ, page 840 and 841]
It is interesting that a similar term _sircar_, derived from Persian _sar kar_, meaning "head of work", was used in Indian to describe a government clerk and, by extension, the government as a whole. [ibid.] It is tempting to see a combined form sar-dar-kar as the origin of Sardaukar-perhaps under the influence of another Indian term _subahdar_, the governor of a province or (in the native army) the equivalent of an army captain. [op. cit., page 856]
Speaking of the rulers of Persia and India, let it be noted that in 1739 Nadir Shah of Persia invaded India and took the actual throne of the Mogul emperors as loot. It was known as the Peacock Throne, being a golden divan surmounted by bejeweled peacocks. [The story is recounted in the April, 1985 issue of the National Geographic.] Coincidentally the star of Caladan is in the constellation Pavo, the Peacock.
Star System Data for Caladan:
Star Designation: Delta Pavonis
Star Name: None
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=20:08:38, DEC=-66deg11'01"
Galactic Coordinates: b=-32.89deg, l=329.88deg
Distance from Old Earth: 19.9 ly.
Spectral Type: G5 V (Yellow-white, Main Sequence)
Magnitude: 3.55
Absolute Magnitude: 4.62
Known Planets:
III. Caladan
? Harmonthep
******
C. Arrakis (later Rakis)-a.k.a. Dune
"As long as Dune had been a known and living planet, there existed a historical firmness about its presence in the Galactic Register. You could point to a projection and say: "That is Dune. ...Destroy the place, though, and a mythological patina inveighed against projected reality. In time such places became totally mythic. Arthur and his round table. Camelot where it only rains at night."
--Darwi Odrade, _Chapterhouse: Dune_, pages 274-275.
Arrakis, the planet known as Dune, is the third planet of Canopus, Alpha Carinae. A desert planet where it never rained at all in the time of Muad'dib (David Lynch to the contrary notwithstanding), it was to become verdant in the long, long reign of the Tyrant-only to be desiccated again after his demise. The Honored Matres, of course, transformed it one final time.
In spite of the fact that its history is the Chronicles, many mysteries remain about it-none more obscure than how the sandworm and its spice came to be there in the first place and when the navigation-aiding properties of the spice were discovered.
The Encyclopedist argues that the sandworm (geonemotodium arraknis) evolved naturally on Arrakis from a burrowing worm (shaihuludata) which survived a catastrophic atmosphere loss. This loss of oxygen supposedly has already happened more than 49 million years ago. The Encyclopedist goes on to say, "For many centuries it was believed that Shai-Hulud was responsible for the desertification of Arrakis. However, many scientists now believe that sandworms are the product, not the cause." [DE, pages 37-38]
Unfortunately for this thesis, Leto II told a different story. "The sandtrout ...was introduced here from some other place. This was a wet planet then. They proliferated beyond the capability of existing ecosystems to deal with them. Sandtrout encysted the available free water, made this a desert planet...and they did it to survive. In a planet sufficiently dry, they could move to their sandworm phase." [CD, page 32, the second ellipsis is Herbert's]
Furthermore, one may remember the prediction of Leto II that the green Arrakis of his time could be reconverted by the sandtrout/sandworm back into desert Dune within 300 years. [GE, page 121] The experience of Darwi Odrade on Chapterhouse certainly confirms this.
I have no trouble taking Leto's version as canonical, but his testimony begs the question: Who introduced the sandtrout to Arrakis?
For this question, there is no answer. None of the forces known to us in the Dune Chronicles will be able to successfully transplant the worm to a different planet, try as they might, until the Bene Gesserit of Darwi Odrade's time. So either it was an unknown human agency or an alien one that put the worm on Dune in the first place.
The timing of the discovery of the spice melange is just as vexing.
On the one hand, the Encyclopedist, as noted under "Tupile", equated the invention of the first Guild ship by Venport and Cenva with the discovery of the navigational uses of the spice. This consequentially puts this discovery, and necessarily that of Arrakis, in the pre-Imperium era.
On the other hand, we find the following facts:
* The Harkonnen quasi-fiefdom on Dune to mine the spice under a CHOAM contract was only 80 years old at the start of the Chronicles. [DU, page 4] There is no information about the previous history of the contract-if indeed there was any previous contract!
* Dr. Yueh showed Paul a filmbook, called: "Arrakis: His Imperial Majesty's Desert Botanical Testing Station". "It was an old filmbook from before discovery of the spice." [DU, page 66] Is this a ten-thousand-year-old book?
* We know that Yanshuph Ashkoko, royal chemist in the reign of Shakkad the Wise, discovered the geriatric properties of spice. [CD, page 17]. Unfortunately, Shakkad is not found in the imperial list offered by the _Dune Encyclopedia_. [DE, pages 200-205]. But one assumes that this places the event in the Corrino Imperium.
* Pardot Kynes was the first planetologist of Arrakis. [DU, page 493] Surely, if the discovery of spice had been so ancient as the Encyclopedist suggests, then a planet of such surpassing importance would have had a planetologist before then.
* In Princess Irulan's introduction to the movie _Dune_, she refers to the Spacing Guild navigators' spice-induced mutation "over four thousand years".
* The Rossak Fremen arrived on Dune by the Encyclopedist's own calculation in 7193 A.G., being preceded by the Ishian Fremen (but surely not by much). [See "Ishia" and "Rossak".]
Although few of these points flatly contradict the Enclyclopedist's thesis, the general tenor is that the discovery of spice is less ancient than suggested. Somehow, it does not seem plausible that the mining of spice on Arrakis had preceded the coming of the Fremen by this many millennia. Nor does the general ignorance about the physical origin and the full effects of the spice fit well with such a long usage.
On the other hand, the consequence of not accepting the early date is that during a considerable stretch of the Imperium-six thousand years, more or less-the Spacing Guild must have used, as did the Bene Gesserit, some other "poison" for their "tricks". (And once they had tried the spice, it may have been difficult, if not impossible, to go back. Certainly this was so for the Bene Gesserit.). [DU, page 477]
The real problem may be the excessive (almost Trantorian) length of the timeline for the Imperium. Herbert, of course, was making a point about the stagnation of mankind under the long rule of the Corrinos-a point to be hammered home again and again and again by the God Emperor-but perhaps he overdid it. Certainly if the discovery of Arrakis and the spice occurred within a few centuries of the change of eras (B.G. to A.G.)-along with the Butlerian Jihad, the C.E.T, the founding of the Bene Gesserit, CHOAM, the Landsrad, House Corrino, and, obviously, the Spacing Guild-precious little significant history seems to have happened during the next ten thousand years!
We do know a few scattered bits of early Fremen history on Arrakis: One of Sheeana's ancestors led the original migration to Dune. [CP, page 401] Old Gap was the way the first Fremen migrated into the desert. [CD, page 338] This was perhaps the Long Trek referred to by Leto II. [GE, page 313] Red Chasm Sietch was one of the original settlements. [CD, page 171]
It is obvious why the inhabitants called their planet "Dune". (One may recall, of course, that Herbert's original publication in Astounding Science Fiction was called "Dune World".) Why exactly it was called "Arrakis" in the Imperial Galactic Register is unknown. As @Giedi Prime, @Arrakis was clearly named for a star-as previously explained, the assumption is that something important happened there.
The star Arrakis is Mu Draconis. Its name Al Rakis is Arabic for "the dancer". Since in early Arabic astronomy it was part of an asterism, called the Five Camels, along with Beta, Gamma, Nu, and Xi. [SN, pages 207, 211], one may interpret the name as the "dancing" or "trotting" camel. Obviously, there is nothing particularly satisfying in this.
As noted in the article "Caladan", there is an apparent connection with Arakan in Myanmar. Its significance is hard to evaluate and may explain more about the choice of Caladan than Arrakis.
There is, however, yet a third and, perhaps, most likely motivation for choosing the name. It seems that in the Far East the name "arrack" was applied to a variety of native spirituous liquors. Variations on the name are "araka" "ariki", "rack", "rak". It is used for liquor made from koumiss (mare or camel's milk), the arecanut, palm toddy, mahua tree flowers, etc. Its name derives either from the arecanut or from the Arabic arak , "sweat". At the beginning of the nineteenth century, whole forests in Ceylon were devoted to its production, and distillation took place at all the villages around the coast. [EB, vol. II, page 426-427]
*Arrakis is a binary or perhaps triple star of 5.1 magnitude and at about 71 ly. distance. It lies in the constellation Draco. This constellation contains Corrin, Grumman, and Gramont. [See "Corrin" for comments on the constellation.]
Now the star of @Arrakis is Canopus, as famous as *Arrakis is obscure. It is the second brightest star in the sky, but unfortunately (for me) cannot be seen from latitudes above 37º N. The Chinese worshipped it as Laoujin. [See "Wallach" for comment on that name.] It was an important star on the Arabian deserts, too, where it was called Suhail perhaps from Al Sahl, the "plain". [SN, page 68] In modern times it has been used for spacecraft navigation. [NA, page 468]
Still it was Canopus's place in mythology that must have inspired Herbert.
First of all, Canopus or Kanopos was the name of the chief pilot of the fleet of Menelaus, returning from the Trojan War. It is to be remembered that it was Helen, wife of Menelaus, who ran off with Paris of Troy and caused that war. Herbert made the Atreides descendants of Agamemnon, brother of Menelaus. These brothers were the sons of Atreus-hence the House of Atreus or Atreides. [CD, page 60 and 287; GE, page 13]
Examination of the family tree of the original Atreides and their Pelopid and Tantalid relatives reveals the source of the noble titles used by the Encyclopedist for Demetrios Atreides and his descendants: Lords Tantalos, Barons Pelops, Barons Menelaus, Counts Thuestes, Barons Aigisthos. [DE, pages 55-56]
The legends about this house are as bloody and unhappy as the history of any of Herbert's Houses Major. Atreus and his brother Thyestes in fact founded rival houses bitterly struggling for control of the Mycenaean crown. (And along with murdering each other, they managed to work in a fair amount of adultery and incest.) Yet of Agamemnon Quintus Horatius Flaccus (Horace) said:
"Gallant heroes lived before Agamemnon,
Not a few; but on all alike,
Unwept and unknown,
Eternal night lies heavy
Because they lacked a sacred poet"
[LQ, page 171]
Well, the later Atreides did not lack a sacred poet either. Whether they were supposed to be descended from the legitimate heirs of Agamemnon (Orestes or Electra) or some bastard Herbert did not explain.
During the return from Troy, the fleet of Menelaus stopped on the coast of Egypt, where Canopus died and a monument was erected. Supposedly, his name was subsequently given to an ancient city near there and to the star. [SN, page 68] The Romans, however, used the term "Canopus" not only for the city, but also for Lower Egypt and indeed Egypt as a whole. [LD, page 88] Hence the Egyptian connection of the Fremen is reinforced as well by this choice of star.
Canopus is Alpha Carinae. Carina (the "keel") was, along with Vela the "sail" and Puppis the "poop deck"), one of the parts into which the ancient constellation Argo Navis was divided. This huge constellation was named for the ship of Jason and the Argonauts, another hero doomed to misfortune. (Yes, Herbert was trying to tell us something.)
Canopus is a supergiant white star whose distance from earth seems to be problematic. I have found the following values stated-all in light years with material date in parentheses: 74 (1991), 98 (1994), 100-120 (1978), 116.5 (1996), 228 (1992), 312 (1998), 600+ (1978), and 1200 (1991). The amazing thing is that the lowest and highest were listed in the same book! [NA, pages 469 and 698]
In explanation of this ambiguity, Burnham mentions that Canopus, being a southern star, had not been studied much up to his time. [CH, vol. I, pages 465-6] Repetition of outdated data by reference works may be at work here, too; but frankly I am not sure what the problem is.
The Encyclopedist offers a novel "fact" about Canopus, claiming that it has a "white hole" companion, Canopus B. A white hole is a theoretical opposite end to a "black hole". That is to say, the enormous amount of energy sucked in by the latter, spews out the former, perhaps in another universe.
In fact, the Encyclopedist seems to be trying to establish that Canopus (and hence Dune and the Dune Chronicles) is not of the Milky Way Galaxy. We have noted somewhat anomalous data before. (See "Ix and Richese" and "Tleilax".) But in the article on the astronomy of @Arrakis, he states that the name of the galaxy is "Starspen", that Canopus is 129,000 light years from galactic center, that this galaxy is a middle-aged one about 12 billion years old, and that Canopus is a "main sequence star".
Now the truth is, I rather like the name "Starspen" (wherever that came from), but Canopus is no where close to the distance stated from Galactic Center. In fact, 129,000 ly exceeds the diameter of our galactic disk. [See "Mapping the Imperium".] Furthermore, the Universe has been estimated to be 10-20 billion years old, thirteen or fourteen billion seeming to be a common value. [E.g., HH, page 262 and NA, page 13] A galaxy of 12 billion years is rather old. Finally, although the Encyclopedist seems to be using his own spectral classes, the phrase "main sequence star" (necessarily referring to the Hertzsprung-Russell Diagram) is not applicable to Canopus, now or ever.
Now if my thesis is correct about the Encyclopedist's intent, all I can say is that this document is a rejection, if not a refutation, of any claim that Dune is not in our universe. If a parallel universe is invoked (fair, I suppose, in the sci-fi world), then I ask, "Why?" Why would one not want to feel the connection with the world of Dune as our future? Just because Star Wars was about some strangers in a galaxy long ago and far away?
We do know some more things about the skies of Dune than any other planet in the Chronicles, save Old Earth. We know of three constellations: Muad'Dib: the Mouse, whose tail pointed north [DU, page 192]; the Pointers (or the Fremen Arrows) [GE, page 327], and the Wanderer, whose arm points to the southern polestar Foum al-Hout [CD, page 307].
We also know the two moons of Dune, unnamed by Herbert, but called Krelln and Arvon by the Encyclopedist. [DE, pages 20-23] The first has the image of a hand; the second, the image of the kangaroo mouse. Was Muad'dib named for the mouse, the moon or the constellation? The mouse seems indicated at the actual time of choosing [DU, page 307]; but his previous prediction to his mother Jessica was more ambivalent [DU, page 199].
Constellation Carina includes another famous stellar object: Eta Carina and its Keyhole Nebula. This star was listed as a fourth magnitude star in the time of Edmund Halley (1677). By 1843 its magnitude was -0.8, rivaling Sirius. Since then it has faded, apparently hiding itself in a cloud of ejected material. This variable star may be on the increase again. It is considered the most likely naked eye star to become a supernova. [NA, pages 470 and 471] But calm yourself! It is on the order of 9000 ly. away. [GG, page220]
The nebula also contains the most luminous star known in the Galaxy: HD93139A. Four million times brighter than the Sun, it emits a good deal of its output in the ultraviolet range.
Star System Data for Arrakis:
Star Designation: Alpha Carinae
Star Name: Canopus
Equatorial Coordinates: RA=6:23:59, DEC=-52deg41'52"
Galactic Coordinates: b=-25.13deg, l=261.29deg
Distance from Old Earth: 312.7 ly. [See discussion above.]
Spectral Type: F0 Ib (White, Supergiant)
Magnitude: -0.62
Absolute Magnitude: -5.53
Major Planets (with average distance in km.):
[All from DE, pages 20-23, 33]
I. Seban (52,000,000 km.=0.3745 a.u.)
II. Menaris (68,000,000 km.=0.4545 a.u.)
III. Arrakis (87,000,000 km.=0.5816 a.u.)
IV. Extaris
V. Ven (2,580,000,000 km.=17.2462 a.u.)
VI. Revona (7,700,000,000 km.=51.4713 a.u.)
Planetary Data:
[All from DE, pages 20-23, 33]
Designation: Canopus III
Common Name: Arrakis (later called "Rakis") or Dune.
Capital: Generally Arrakeen (later called "Keen"), but also Carthag [DU, page 48] and On.
Diameter: 12,256 km.
Density: 4.95 g/cm3
Gravity: 8.62 m/sec2
Sidereal Period: 353 standard days (variable over geological time from 295 to 595 days)
Satellite Data:
[All from DE, pages 20-23]
First Moon:
Name: Krelln
Ave. Distance from planet: 324,077 km.
Diameter: 976 km.
Density: 3.97 g/cm3
Sidereal Period: 25.5 standard days
Second Moon:
Name: Arvon
Perigee Distance from planet 103,000 km.
Diameter: 402 km.
Density: 2.02 g/cm3
Sidereal Period: 5.7 standard days
************
"The choice is the Universe--or nothing."
--H. G. Wells
************
That helps immensly :D
Thank You
That helps immensly :D
I wish i could take credit for it! It's a splendid work of fandom!
Jedi Steve-OP.S. Thanks to all who voted for me in the [b]February Contest (Playing With Everything: Opposites Attract)[/b]. I'm proud to say my star-crossed pair won (though it was a short race) and they're working on a new custom avatar and/or a custom title for me. Suggestions? :D
I've always been partial to Bashar.
Great choice - or Levenbrech.
God Emperor seems inevitable, as befits his megalomania
Great choice [Bashar] - or Levenbrech.
God Emperor seems inevitable, as befits his megalomania
"Megalomania"? Hmmm... I'm not sure whether to be flattered or insulted. What's "Levenbrech" by the way? I hate it when people use words I don't understand.
As for "God Emperor" -- I'll ask if they can do that. (Think that violates the CoC?)
What do you think Jedi Steve-O's title should be?
a) God Emperor of WotC
b) Burseg Supreme
c) Bashar of the Corps
d) Levenbrech (whatever that means)
e) some other variation... be creative.
Jedi Steve-OGod Emperor of WotC
P.S. Apologies for any megalomaniac traits I've been displaying. It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am. :evillaugh
Burseg
Caid
Bashar
Colonel
Bator
Levenbrech
Captain
Private
Lost and floundering in our own filth -- that's where.
Thanks again for coming through. I still don't know where you get these wonderful toys...
Jedi Steve-OGod Emperor of WotC
"fed-a-keen" or "fed-ike-in".
I've heard it both ways (David Lynch vs SciFi channel). I prefer the former, as it's similar to what they were calling Iraqi insurgents in the beginning of the current war.
By the way, how do you guy pronounce the word Fedaykin? "fed-a-keen" or "fed-ike-in"...
I'm partial to pronouncing it "fay-da-KEEN" (emphasis in capitals)... But I am a known weirdo.
About the titles... I'm probably gonna ask for something simple like "Gamer" or "GameMaster" or "Uber Geek." oooh... "Super Geek." That's me. :D
I'm just worried that titles like "Fedaykin" (regardless of how it's pronounced), "Bashar," and the like would be Herbert Estate property... and we all know what a mess that is.
For those of you who'd like to play in the online play-by-post game, I've only got a couple slots left, so [email=spartan480@aol.com]e-mail me[/email] with a character concept already!
Jedi Steve-OGeek Supreme
P.S. d20 Dune :: No Prize Contest: Design Rabban "The Beast" Abulurd.
Suggestions: As it's a 1st level game, he should be somewhere areound 5th - 7th level. Use 32 point-buy method for stats (it is epic, after all).
Use d20 Dune rules if you've got access, otherwise, use d20 Modern/Future as sources.
Oh, and am I to assume from your post that I'm no longer the only Harkonnen player? Oh Joy! :D
Thanks!
Gregory Black
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-08,GGLD:en&q=timeline+for+known+events+in+the+Dune+Universe
Top result is http://209.180.92.197/keltia/dune.html
[includes disputed data from the prequels]
Just searching terms Dune Timeline
http://www.smirnov.demon.co.uk/arrakis/timeline.htm
[direct for the Dune Encyclopaedia without embellishment]
But a second No Prize is in the works... the young Vladimir Harkonnen!
Jedi Steve-OSuper Geek
Throwing a weapon through a shield? Um... there's the basic concept of getting something to go fast enough to defy gravity...
I stand corrected. I think I found the instance you may have been trying to reference. In DUNE: MESSIAH (I'm re-reading the whole series), Alia is practicing (naked) against a fighter mech.
At the point where she's dazzling the machine with her swordplay, Muad'Dib throws a dagger over her shoulder (while she's in mid-swing) and hits the 1mm-wide deactivation button through the fighter's shield.
I have no idea how this inhuman feat would be possible except for a) Muad'Dib or b) a prescient fighter of his equivalent level. What that might be, I have no idea... how do you stat the Kwisatz Haderach? Noble/Bene Gesserit/Mentat/Fremen/House Lord...
I think it's one of those things that I'll leave out. After all, Muad'Dib was Muad'Dib. Or maybe I'll include it as an Epic feat.
Jedi Steve-OP.S. I'm working on rules for the Honored Matres, Fish Speakers, and more.
Theoretically, if sword thrusts can get through a shield (let alone certain machine-fired projectiles) I don't think it would be unreasonable for some thrown weapons to penetrate as well. Especially at short range, it might be possible to throw a dagger underhand, so that it has a fairly low velocity, but is still capable of doing damage, particularly if it hits a unprotected part of the body (and since most fighters rely only on their Holtzmann shields...).
As long as the throw was with the movement of the shield - i.e. it is very difficult to penetrate a shield coming towards you as the summed velocities will easily exceed the strike rate of the shield. However an apponent moving away from you becomes much easier game... however I am loathe to add thrown weapons of any usefulness.
The requirement to develop the slow pellet stunner suggests that this 'epic throw' is beyond the training of normal House Troopers.
In other news - I am nearing completion of the codification of my Dune d20 modern adaptoion that I have been using the last few months.
-Talmeth
We need a slew of new abilities for Honored Matres. I also have not seen any stats for any characters from the God Emperor's time up untill the happenings in Chapter house. I want to either place my campeign right after the Famine Times or during Odrade's lifetime.
(Spoilers....?)
I'd like/need stats for Odrade, Bellonda, The Spider Queen, Logno, Honored Matres in general, Tamalane, Sheana, Siona, Leto II (the god emperor), Waff, Scytale, Duncan Idaho (the last?), Murbella, face dancers, and young Miles Teg. I'll probably draw up a few of these myself, but I'm lazy and would like others to do it for me
. Also, stats for various lazguns, Ix probe machines, shere, and sheilds.
I haven't looked at all the pages so some of these might have already been covered, but if so, point me in the right direction.
Hey Jedi, whats up? How are things going... I was just wondering what else you were working on, and if its anything I might help with... I promise you I haven't vanished, I just kinda got busy with life... On another note, how are we on the play-by-post? Anyway, just tell me if you need anything done, and what I might be able to help with ^_^
-Talmeth
Thanks for keeping in touch, Talmeth. I've been a little busy lately myself. I promise I'm not neglecting these boards, but my absence here just means I'm spending more time on the game itself. ;)
It's a rough life I lead... I mean, I have to wake up before noon, then I sit around and figure out what I want for lunch/breakfast, check the mail for Netflix and -- if it's arrived -- watch a movie, walk to work around 4 or so... then spend the evening in drunken debauchery. I know, I know -- your heart bleeds for me... :D
So, I really am working on this thing, and I'll be looking for playtesters soon. If you're a GM with a group that wants to play d20 Dune, let me know!
Does someone want to tell me what a chairdog is? Is it like... an actual dog? Cause thats creepy....
Yeah... um, as far as I can tell -- it's an actual living animal that conforms to the person sitting in it. A little creepy perhaps...
We need a slew of new abilities for Honored Matres. I also have not seen any stats for any characters from the God Emperor's time up untill the happenings in Chapter House. I want to either place my campaign right after the Famine Times or during Odrade's lifetime.
(Spoilers....?)
I'd like/need stats for Odrade, Bellonda, The Spider Queen, Logno, Honored Matres in general, Tamalane, Sheana, Siona, Leto II (the god emperor), Waff, Scytale, Duncan Idaho (the last?), Murbella, face dancers, and young Miles Teg.
Well... I'm still finalizing the Honored Matres Advanced Class, but I should be able to work on the others. I'm re-reading the whole Dune series (I'm near the end of Children of Dune now) and will be re-familiarizing myself [is that even a word?] with the characters of that era.
I'll probably draw up a few of these myself, but I'm lazy and would like others to do it for me.
You get points for honesty...
Also, stats for various lazguns, Ix probe machines, shere, and sheilds. I haven't looked at all the pages so some of these might have already been covered, but if so, point me in the right direction.
Hmmm. I've got stats for lasguns and shields, but as for the rest... I'm still working on them.
Jedi Steve-OCurses.
My 'Rulebuk' is done - though it needs some radical editing.
If you want it PM me your
Excerpts
DUNE RULEBUK
– thanks to Frank Herbert for countless hours in another world
– adapted from D20 Modern by Dagmar Scott Fraser (artaxerxes)
– inspired by Last Unicorn Game’s DUNE (in fact it pretty much assumes you have a copy for reference)
– and David Lynch’s DUNE
– apologies for incompleteness – however this is all I needed to start playing after using LUG’s Dune.
This material is Open Game Content, and is licensed for public use under the terms of the Open Game License v1.0a.
...
Bene Gesserit
BONUS FEATS Minutiae Observation, Prana Bindu Suspension,
Assassin.
BONUS FEATS Assassin's Code*, Assassins Handbook (Poisons),
Spy Master
BONUS FEATS Spy Network*, Profile*
Mentat
BONUS FEATS Mentat Awareness, Mnemonic Conditioning
Noble
BONUS FEATS Noble Blood*, Shield Fighting*
Swordmaster
FEATS Shield Fighting*, Code of Honour*
Suk Doctor
FEATS Pyretic Conscience*, Pharmacopoeia*
NEW FEATS and COMBAT
Assassin's Code
Prerequisite Assassin Template
Benefit You have assimilated the Code of Assassins into your personal identity, binding yourself to it’s dearest precepts. The code allows you to work within the precepts of the Great Convention, giving legal justification to an otherwise illegal activity. Those who share the Code also extend professional courtesy in the form of inviolate secrecy, non-interference and possibly sanctuary. However these niceties are nothing compared to the crippling strike.
The Assassin’s province is death towards the unwary. The Assassin’s attack deals an extra 1d6 damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.
Assassins Handbook
Prerequisite Craft(Chaumas/Chaumurky) 4 Ranks and Knowledge(Assassination) 4 Ranks
Benefit Gives full knowledge of a range of poisons, and also the insight to create and improvise others. Allows you to take 10 when employing Craft (Chaumas/ Chaumurky), and Knowledge(Assassination) given appropriate facilities and research.
Normal Poisons may still be purchased, but utilising them without this skill requires a reflex save versus DC 15.
Special +2 on Treat Injury when specifically related to Chaumas/Chaumurky.
Spy Network,
Prerequisite Spymaster Template
Benefit A Spymaster of cultivates associates and informants.
Each time the Spymaster gains a contact, the GM should develop a supporting character to represent the contact. The player can suggest the type of contact his or her character wants to gain, but the contact must be an ordinary character, not a heroic character.
A contact will not accompany a Spymaster on missions or risk his or her life. A contact can, however, provide information or render a service (make a specific skill check on the Investigator’s behalf).
At 1st level, the Spymaster gains a low-level contact, at 4th level a mid-level contact, and at 9th level a high-level contact.
The Spymaster can’t call on the same contact more than once in a week, and when he or she does call on a contact, compensation may be required for the assistance the contact renders. In general, a professional associate won’t be compensated monetarily, but instead will consider that the Spymaster owes him or her a favor. Contacts with smuggler or pyon connections usually demand monetary compensation for the services they render, and experts in the use of skills normally want to be paid for the services they provide.
For smuggler or pyon contacts, this expense is represented by a Wealth check against a purchase DC of 10 for the low-level contact, 15 for the mid-level contact, or 20 for the high-level contact. For skilled experts, the purchase DC is 10 + the ranks the expert has in the appropriate skill.
Special This feat may be taken multiple times. Contacts can be abandoned at the DMs discretion.
Profile
Prerequisite Gather Information and Investigate 4 ranks.
Benefit By making a Gather Information check (DC 15) the profiler compiles a rough mental picture of any given target (individual or organization). For an individual this mental picture provides a physical description, including distinguishing markings and visible mannerisms. Success makes the profile accurate, at least concerning a particular suspect as seen by associates and acquaintances interviewed. (For this Gather Information check, no money changes hands.)
The profiler can expand the profile by making an Investigate check (DC 15) involving the abode, or other evidence linked to the target. If successful, the profiler combines verbal accounts with forensic evidence to develop a profile of the target’s modus operandi. This provides a +2 circumstance bonus on any skill checks made to uncover additional evidence related to the target.
Mentat Awareness
Prerequisite Mentat only.
Benefit Required to compute 2nd Order Mentat Projections & Mentat Computations.
A Mentat may apply his Intelligence bonus instead of his Dexterity bonus to his Defense. Any situation that would deny the Mentat his Dexterity bonus to Defense also denies the Intelligence bonus.
Normal Skills unavailable.
Greater Mentat Awareness
Prerequisite Mentat Awareness, Mentat Projection +8.
Benefit Required to make 1st Order Mentat deductions.
A Mentat may applies his Intelligence and his Dexterity bonus to Defense. Any situation that would deny the Mentat his or her Dexterity bonus to Defense also denies the Intelligence bonus.
Mnenomic Conditioning (Eidetic Memory)
Benefit Total recall of past events.
Normal May take 10 on any Knowledge Skill.
Special Only available at 1st level.
Noble Blood
Prerequisite First level only or DMs discretion (suitable marriage).
Benefit Born and bred to rule, the Noble is atop the social stratum, and may employ a suitable Noble Title, and is permitted to bear caste-restricted weapons (such as the rapier and sabre) or fight in the Corrida Escuda. Protected by the Dictum Familia and with access to fabulous Wealth [+3] the Nobles life is the enny of pyons.
However the life of a noble is fraught with dire peril. The expensive education lavished on a Noble expresses itself in a display of remarkable sangfroid when confronted with crisis. Whenever a Noble born spends 1 action point to improve the result of a die roll, he or she rolls an additional 1d6. The Noble can then select the highest of these die rolls to add to his or her d20 roll.
Code of Honour
Prerequisite Leadership 4 Ranks, BAB +1 (or Swordmaster Template)
Benefit Elevated Status, may use the title Swordmaster, permitted to bear caste-restricted weapons such as the Rapier and Sabre.
+2 checks (Diplomacy, Leadership) when dealing with others who serve the code.
You also gain Weapon Focus, chooses a specific weapon (including unarmed strike or grapple). You add +1 to all attack rolls made using the selected weapon.
Special Violating the code gives you -2 Diplomacy and Leadership. Opponents who follow the code are always inspired to defeat you gaining +1 to hit and damage.
Pyretic Conscience (Imperial Medical Conditioning)
Prerequisite Suk Template
Benefit +4 on Treat Injury to reflect the Suk’s utter reverence for life.
Special Inability to take life or by inaction allow life to be taken. +8 against any effect which might otherwise provoke them to take a life. For instance the Voice.
Breath of Life
Prerequisite Pharmacopoeia, Pyretic Conscience
The Suk’s Doctors utter reverence for life drives them to exhaust every avenue in the pursuit of saving a life. The greater knowledge of physiology and drugs gives that drive a chance of success.
Benefit A Suk Doctor can save a character reduced to –10 hit points or lower. If the Suk Doctor is able to administer aid within 3 rounds of the character’s death, he or she can make a Treat Injury check. The DC for this check is 30, and the Suk can’t take 10 or take 20. If the check succeeds, the dead character can make a Fortitude save (DC 15) to stabilize and be restored to 0 hit points.
If the Field Medic fails the skill check or the patient fails the save, the dead character can’t be saved
Special With access to an Organ Bank* (mentioned in Dune, probably at least Ornithopter sized) a Suk can lower the DC by 5 points. Any character with 5 ranks treat injury can with a DC25 check, and delay final death. If the check succeeds, the dead character can make Fortitude save (DC 15) to stabilize for 1 day.
Pharmacopoeia
Prerequisite Suk Template, or 5 ranks of Treat Injury
Benefit Craft narcotics designed to enhance a given ABILITY SCORE.
Normal Narcotics not designed for your specific physiology by a Suk will always have a side effect with the possible exception of the Spice Mélange.
Special Feat may be taken multiple times, each time reflects a different ABILITY SCORE.
Minutiae Observation
Prerequisite Prana Bindu Suspension, Sense Motive 4 Ranks
Benefit The centered being is able to read the intent of an individual in a fashion much more swiftly than normally allowed by Sense Motive, which takes a minute. Minutiae Observation allows the Sense Motive skill to be employed at the end of a single round of scrutiny. Hunch, and Detect Secret Messages remain unaltered whilst 'Discern Enchantment' is now used to detect the influence of drugs, or other sources of mental influence i.e. Bene Tleilax control)
Normal As per
Special You may take 20 with Sense Motive if you use a full minute.
Poison Resistance
Benefit choose any ABILITY SCORE, you gain a +2 bonus versus poisons that affect this ABILITY SCORE.
Special this feat may be taken multiple times, but each applies to another ABILITY SCORE. [note I am using the poisons et cetera as presented in d20 modern]
Prana Bindu Suspension (Weirding Way)
Benefit this feat (essentially defensive martial arts) is the pre-requisite for all Martial Arts. The character gains a +1 dodge bonus to Defense against melee attacks.
Normal Without this feat no martial arts feats can be taken.
Special: A condition that makes the character lose his or her Dexterity bonus to Defense also makes the character lose dodge bonuses. Also, dodge bonuses stack, unlike most other types of bonuses.
Prana Bindu Mastery
Prerequisite Prana Bindu Suspension, Fort Save +4
Benefit May attempt DC 15 Will save to take 20 on any poison save (specifically for Spice Agony trial). May utilize Wisdom bonus in addition to Dex bonus to defence.
Voice
Prerequisite Prana Bindu Suspension, Minutiae Observation, Perform(Sing) 4 ranks
Benefit Using highly trained vocal cords, and a stunning insight into a given individual's psyche the Voice wielder may implant a suggestion. Requires a successful Minutiae Observation check (DC Bluff check for actively hostile individuals, or DC 20 for those unaware. The actively aggressive individual often makes the task easier by betraying themselves. Bene Gesserit often provoke a crisis in order to read individuals. Dr Yeuh demonstrates the higher DC when he chooses not to bluff but remain as close as possible to the truth).
A Perform(Sing) versus a base difficulty of 15, modified by wariness and the situation is required to insinuate the suggestion. Each successive use on a subject on any given day raises the difficulty by 5, however no further Minutiae Observation checks must be made that day. The individual can still negate the suggestion with a Will Save versus 10 + Ranks in Perform(Sing)+CHA bonus.
You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited
to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell. [When Jessica suggests there is "no need to fight over me" - this is a classic example - she doesn't explicitly demand violence.]
The suggested course of activity can continue for up to 1 minute per Rank in Perform(sing). If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the effect ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do.
You can instead specify conditions that will trigger a special activity during the duration. If the condition is not met before the spell duration expires, the activity is not performed
A very reasonable suggestion causes the will save to be made with a penalty (such as –1 or –2).
Special Hypno-ligature. Requires much longer observation of the individual, over a period of days, and implicit trust from the victim. May implant a post-hypnotic suggestion e.g. 'Uroshnor' which will cause the individual to be dazed upon hearing the trigger phrase after an unlimited period of time.
Great Voice
Prerequisite Prana Bindu Mastery, Minutiae Observation, Voice, Perform(Sing) 8 ranks
Benefit Mass suggestion on a body of similar individuals.
Special Post Hypnotic suggestion can paralyze a victim for 1 round.
Inner Voices
Prerequisite Prana Bindu Mastery, Spice Agony. Female*
Benefit Access to matrilineal ancestral memories.
Special Abomination.
Truthtrance
Prerequisite Minutiae Observation, Sense Motive +8 Ranks, Wis 18
Benefit Given a full minute to scrutinize an individual you may make a DC 25 Sense Motive Check to determine the individual’s belief about its answers to any ensuing questions. A wary target may attempt to substitute their Bluff check as the DC. This will often result in a lower DC and so Bene Gesserit practitioners often provoke this response from interviewed individuals.
Special May be learned with a Wisdom of lower than 18, but only used with WIS affecting drugs. You may take 10 on a recording of an interview, but not 20.
Prerequisite Prana Bindu Mastery, Spice Agony. Female*
Benefit Access to matrilineal ancestral memories.
Special Abomination."
Unless you happen to be a Kwitaz (sp) Haderach, or have a particularly whorish Reverend.. mother...
Thanks for posting that all here. I look forward to pilfering and cannibalising this info for use in my own game.
Can't wait to see the polished/edited version. :D
Jedi Steve-OSuper Geek
As I've mentioned before, I'm re-reading the DUNE Chronicles (and taking notes). During this process, I'm coming across some great new technology. I've just begun God Emperor of Dune, and they mention the Women of the Imperial Guard and their needle knives in hip sheaths. Anyone with some more information on these deadly looking weapons? Are they poisoned (as I assume)?
I'm also working on stats for the new creatures mentioned in Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune -- the Laza tigers and D-wolves, specifically.
I've also got a couple questions for the thread regulars:
- What should the tech-level be for d20 Dune? I'm guess-timating PL 8.
- Should I include rules for the Face Dancers as a separate race?
- Should I cut the Backgrounds section?
- Anyone have a Dune/Fremen calendar? I know Frank Herbert mentioned the months of "Laab" and "Akkad" specifically, but did he ever fill in the rest?
- Any ideas on how to stat a mechanized fighter? Specifically, the "fencing mirrors" that Alia and Paul trained with. A shielded automaton/construct with Armsman levels?
Jedi Steve-OSuper Geek
Hey guys,
I've also got a couple questions for the thread regulars:
- What should the tech-level be for d20 Dune? I'm guess-timating PL 8.
- Should I cut the Backgrounds section?
Super Geek
1) I'd say Dune defies easy classification into a particular tech level since Frank Herbert cherry-picked a lot of technology for plot reasons rather then because they were logically connected. Plus, I don't see any problems with leaving the exact TL vaguely defined; it's not like the Future SRD Police are going to take away our game design licenses. ;) But if I had to choose, I'd go with a mixed-up TL of 7.5 or something like that. Or we could make it an irrational number to go with the sometimes illogical mix of feudalism, mysticism and high technology.
2) I thought backgrounds were an extremely interesting idea, although I'll admit I don't know how they worked out in practice. I thought they were one of several things that made D20 Dune more than just a conversion and set it apart as something special... but if they don't work well mechanically, then I guess they could be junked. I mean, they're not critical, just really cool.
3) Here's an item that I randomly thought of the other day. Dunno if it's appropriate for Dune, but I thought it might be:
Miasmatic Vest: The miasmatic vest is a compartmentalized harness used to deliver chemical warfare attacks on an individual level. Activating a MV is a standard action and fills all adjacent squatres with the vest's contents (the user's square is not affected). On the beginning of the user's next turn, the gas spreads to all squares in a 10-foot radius, including the user's own square.
The MV holds two chemical charges which may be different substances. If struck in combat, the MV has hardness 2 and 5 hitpoints. If destroyed, there is a 50% chance that it will expell all remaining charges.
1) Face Dancers
2) Tleilaxu
3) Navigators
And at the same time yo should treat the machines from, the Butlerian jihad era as races too
Plus I agree with the 7.5 PL I mean yea they have lasguns, and ubber-powerful shields, but they use Knives and swords (yes because of tech) for a good while. So I agree with the 7.5 as a max maybe...
On the backgrounds I say scrap em untill you can get somekinda of basis for them (which I'd love to help with, as a side note, I relized I only did like 3 vehicles >_< so I should finish that for you) so ya....
On the fighting Mek, yeah just go with that idea, it should work....
-Tal out
I'd say Dune defies easy classification into a particular tech level...
Agreed. It would definitely have to be a modified progress level, and I'd put some sort of caveat on it.
...I thought backgrounds were an extremely interesting idea, although I'll admit I don't know how they worked out in practice.
You can thank the fine folks at AEG who designed Spycraft. I stole... er, "borrowed" it from them.
Miasmatic vest sounds interesting... dunno how appropriate to Dune it is, but definitely a cool visual.
I think that if you gonna do face dancers and such, then you should do a few races:
1) Face Dancers
2) Tleilaxu
3) Navigators
And at the same time yo should treat the machines from, the Butlerian jihad era as races too...
Yeah. This is why I avoided the whole "other race" thing from the start. It's sort of a Pandora's Box, ain't it?
Jedi Steve-OFlavor Text: The background section was very good. I'm not entirely sure, but a good chunk of it looked original and should be incorporated into the D20 Dune setting info.
Skills:
- The combination of Balance and Tumble into Acrobatics is a very good idea. The former is waaaay too weak to be worth expending skill points on.
- The combination of Climb, Jump and Swim into Athletics is a good idea. HOWEVER, I do not think that Swim should be included in this package. For one thing, it is hard to imagine most Dune natives knowing how to swim as well as they can climb. For another, Swim is not useable untrained, but presumably we would like athletics to be useable without skill points, so including it would be a mistake.
- Renaming Craft Mechanical to Servok Mechanisms was cool.
- Rolling Computer Use into Proscribed Technologies was even cooler. This should probably also include a few other bits of "forbidden lore" as well.
- I'm not sure that making Craft (Electronic) into Proscribed technologies is a good idea though. The Imperium has lots of electronic gadgets that are not sentient (lasguns, pru-doors, shields, ect), so I think it would be a mistake to eliminate this part of the craft skill.
- The Armaments skill is intriguing. What else can it do besides Demolitions? Field fortifications and weapon maintenance?
- I think Command should be kept separate from Diplomacy. If we do have a separate Command skill, we should probably also drop Knowledge Tactics.
- The new Knowledge skill subfields are great! My only suggestions would be to remove "Assassination" and rename "Theology and Philosophy..." to something shorter and more catchy (Theurgy? Metaphysics? Parapsychology?). Also, having "Knowledge: Proscribed Technologies" and a "Proscribed Technologies" skill seems redundant. I'd drop the former.
Feats
- I liked the Noble Blood feat, but I think that the action point benefit should be swapped out for something less powerful and more socially-oriented. Maybe a bonus on Command and Diplomacy checks?
- The Pharmacopoeia feat sounded really cool, but I'm a little unclear as to the effects. It also suggests interesting avenues for creating new rules.
Equipment
- The different lasgun firing options were a neat addition.
Well, that's all for now. Hopefully future progress on both D20 Dune books will be as mutually-beneficial as this one.
Specifics
The Armaments skill is used for the maintenance of all things martial - specifically shields, swords, maula pistols up to field artillery. It is more pratical than Knowledge(Tactics). It was a catch all skill for Swordmasters. Demolitions always seemed to be such a narrow skill. I would like to keep the Leadership/Command skill seperate from Knowledge(Tactics) - many scenarios have the Mentat plan and the Swordmaster implement that plan - which are based on seperate issues. "No plan survives an encounter with the enemy".
It also remain useful for Noble's to employ when working their pyons - which falls outside the remit of Tactics methinks.
The Proscribed Technologies is indeed too broad - I think anything under 4 ranks would be needed for Lasguns, shields perhaps and that anything higher would be veering into truly prohibited stuff. However I will still push for seperate Knowledge and practical versions of Proscribed Technologies. One allows recreation of forbidden items - and will be very rare - whilst the latter allows use without knowledge of intricacies. Akin to the difference between owning a Dell and scratch building a linux box with RAID. Perhaps a Proscribed Technologies feat is in order much as the Pilot Skill + Pilot Feat is used in Star Wars for instance.
Athletics - not being a Fremen centric campign the idea never occured to me. Perhaps their template will mention it in my version (a la Barbarian illiteracy). They will have a template much like the House Moritani presented at the beginning of my character generation section (which I intend to update with multiple examples).
I was really struggling with the Nobles template feats - looking for something not replicated in the d20 Modern Charisma class. Something that reflected some inborn (or trained) ability to deal with crisis.
[edit] The Ambassador advanced class (from the d20 Future SRD) presents Diplomatic Immunity which seems tailor made for our budding House Nobles.[edit]
Assassination is central to my vision of the Dune Chronicle - the titles of my three campaign sections; War of Assassins, Code of Assassins and Master of Assassins (and maybe Hour of Assassins). Re-read the delicious treatise on the Handbook of Assassins. However assassination does fall under the Great Convention which is the central tenet of the Imperium... but I feel it needs it's own little plinth.
Theology and Philosophy checked in to round out the list.
Pharmacopoiea - basically it's Brew Potion. Drugs; Melange, Sappho, Semuta can be freely used by the PCs all boosting stats with certain penalties - including addiction. Pharmacopoiea allows them to be utilised under the supervision of a Suk with no (or minimal) penalties due to complete knowledge of their patients physiology. It's incomplete as I have only dangled a Suk infront of my players so far and haven't needed exact rules
Too expensive for them as they are a mere House Minor.
I was thinking you could have basically one +2/-2 effect all the time. Or with a Suk +2/0. With a Suk you could also have +2/+2/-2. Without a Suk - multiple effects have dire results. Melange is a straight +2 Con in my campaign (with occasional saves versus addiction) as it is the wonder drug that breaks all the rules.
Lasgun firing modes is straight from the novels. Given the deadliness of d20 modern massive injury rules they are even more destructive!
1) Fremen vs. Ruling body (pre-paul Era)
2) Minor/Major House vs. Minor/Major House (Any Era)
3) Pyon vs Ruling body (Any Era)
4) Minor/Major House gone Renegade (Any Era)
5) Fremen vs. the Universe (Paul and beyond Era's)
6) Smugglers On Dune vs. Ruling Body (Any Era)
7) Imperial Soldiers under Emperor's orders (Any Era)
8) Tleilaxu Experiments under attack (Any Era after Butlerian)
9) CHOAM advisors ? (Any Era)
10) Illegal Tech Experiments for Ix (Any Era)
11) Man vs. Machine (Butlerian Jihad)
ALSO, I think we should deffinately consider (atleast consider) that if your a from a house it should have some kind of a race type effect (i.e. +2 wisdom for being an atredies [please don't quote just a random example]) And Jedi, the Races shouldn't be THAT hard, seriously, I mean the Tleilaxu would be short prolly get an INT bonus and a DEX negative... on another note, I'll help were needed, and I'll e-mail those vehicles (cause I relized I need to get them done >_<) within a week to ya...
-Talmeth
Acrobatics (combines Balance and Tumble skills; DEX based)
Armaments (replaces Demolition skill, also includes field fortification, weaponry, ect)
Athletics (combines Climb and Jump; STR skill)
Autohypnosis
Bluff
Computer Use (now Proscribed Technologies)
Concentration
Craft
[INDENT] Chemical
Electronic
Servok Mechanisms
Pharmaceutical
Structural[/INDENT]
Cryptography (renamed Decipher Script)
Diplomacy
Disable Device
Disguise
Escape Artist
Forgery
Gamble
Gather Information
Handle Animal
Hide
Intimidate
Investigate
Knowledge
[INDENT] Art
Business
History
House and Homeworld (House specific)
Imperium (Landsraad, Sysselraad, general politics)
Metaphysics and Theurgy (Religion, superstition, philosophy)
Out-freyn Cultures (Ix, Bene Tleilax)
Psychology
Science (includes: life sciences, physics, chemistry, Holtzmann field technologies)
Spacing Guild
Underclass (streetwise)[/INDENT]
Listen
Mentat Computation (interpolation; INT based)
Mentat Projection (extrapolation; secondary computation based on Computation; INT based)
Move Silently
Navigate
Perform
[INDENT] Act
Dance
Percussion
Sing
Stringed Instruments
Wind Instruments[/INDENT]
Pilot
Profession
Proscribed Technologies (this would include Computer Use and Use Invention from D20 Dune)
Read/Write Language
Repair
Research
Ride
Search
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Speak Language
Spot
Survival
Swim
Treat Injury
-Talmeth Out....
I would say any human should be able investigate - all the seperates the Mentat is the Machine Logic style computational ability i.e. what the Mentats then do with the data. The Mentats, and their Information Officers, Spys et al. still need to Investigate to get valid data points for their projections and interpolations.
Recall I am using d20 Modern so Mentats will more than likely take Intelligent Hero levels to get good investigate scores. However Mentat Assassins, Mentat Swordmasters will take radically different paths.
I would say any human should be able investigate - all the separates the Mentat is the Machine Logic style computational ability i.e. what the Mentats then do with the data. The Mentats, and their Information Officers, Spys et al. still need to Investigate to get valid data points for their projections and interpolations.
Recall I am using d20 Modern so Mentats will more than likely take Intelligent Hero levels to get good investigate scores. However Mentat Assassins, Mentat Swordmasters will take radically different paths.
Definitely. I'm fascinated by the differences possible between two characters. Even starting with the same base class -- with careful choices of talents and feats, it's possible to build two completely different characters.
Arta, I'm really impressed by your d20 Modern version of Dune. This was my original take on it (before I went the O.C.D. route and created all new base classes) and I'm glad you continued using the d20 Modern base classes for your game. I'll be writing to you with some comments/questions on how you converted certain powers/abilities, but on the whole, your game is extremely enjoyable -- which is the point, after all. :D Well done.
Jedi Steve-OI have revised the feats (posted on your site) having just found the d20 Future SRD - oooh. So Poison Resistance, Code of Honour et cetera have been brought into alignment with SRD sources, and certain feats tweaked... in time for this weekend's game - 'The Leviathans Of Ix'.
I am very happy that radically different charcaters can be built - however this is also very dangerous as everyone can cherry pick almost all the feats. Luckily I went to this system with characters already made in the LUG Dune game where the roles were quite well defined. Where I to use this to run another game - the flood of Bene Gesserit Mentat Assassins might overwhelm me...
Luckily I only have one Mentat Assassin Noble to deal with
I am very happy that radically different charcaters can be built - however this is also very dangerous as everyone can cherry pick almost all the feats. Luckily I went to this system with characters already made in the LUG Dune game where the roles were quite well defined. Where I to use this to run another game - the flood of Bene Gesserit Mentat Assassins might overwhelm me...
Luckily I only have one Mentat Assassin Noble to deal with
Sounds like fun. I'm working on some fun character designs until the play-by-post game ramps up. How about a Noble/Armsman/Bene Gesserit Adept or an Armsman/Mentat/Duelist/Master of Assassins/Swordmaster... Actually, what I'm really waiting for is the first Noble/Armsman/Sardaukar/Bene Gesserit/Mentat.
:surrender Jedi Steve-ONow I have to come up with rules for the Corrida Escuda (shielded bullfight). I have been leafing through Hemingway's]Death in the Afternoon for insight into this fascinating sport - the descendent of which slays Duke Leto's father. The signature villain's hench-swordmaster in my piece is a bullfighter.
So expect a very curious supplement for any Sci Fi game in due course.
This weekend sees a Steampunk/War of the Worlds inspired jaunt to Ix.
House Atreides, House Harkonnen, House Corrino, House Ix, House Richese, House Ecaz, House Mutelli, House Hagal, House Fazeel, House Wallach(is this a true house?)
If you guys can think of anymore maybe we should post a list... that way when people decide to do a major/minor house campaign they have a house to pick from....Or atleast a name idea....
-Talmeth Out...
You know, my last list sorta gave me an idea... I was wondering how many houses are known for the Dune Universe, I was gonna list all the ones I could think of...but I doubt it will be complete (since I was never any good at remembering those damnedable house names, except for the important ones)
House Atreides, House Harkonnen, House Corrino, House Ix, House Richese, House Ecaz, House Mutelli, House Hagal, House Fazeel, House Wallach(is this a true house?)
If you guys can think of anymore maybe we should post a list... that way when people decide to do a major/minor house campaign they have a house to pick from....Or atleast a name idea....
-Talmeth Out...
Alman 10 Medvedev 5 Vico 3 Beskid 1
Atreides 10 Penchi 5 Yasu 3 Chelly 1
Corrino 10 Togramah 5 Abefor 2 Demavend 1
Kemic 10 Ludvonsa 4½ Bendau 2 Dupleix 1
Wallach 10 Burgerich 4 Chinognia 2 Est 1
Malmusetz 9 Chlemnik 4 Costino 2 Fidbolgs 1
Wikkheiset 9 Genissai 4 Daryai 2 Iasi 1
Kyzyl 8 Guilford 4 Destrym 2 Igal 1
Opheiion 8 Hirado 4 Fenring 2 Isonzo 1
Qaii 8 Isfahan 4 Halleck 2 Jerodme 1
Tiiopa'it 8 Khumali 4 Hemming 2 Lassoki 1
Delambre 7 Masjed 4 Ichihara 2 Latzko 1
Ezharian 7 Samarama 4 Istaivan 2 Lexander 1
Hajns 7 Bromeli 3 Lidoping 2 Lompok 1
Moritilai 7 Cephalus 3 Menemtahe 2 Lonsle 1
Ordos 7 Edomdred 3 Mustami 2 Melui 1
Clanriearde 6 Elioz 3 Ngara 2 Meyerwal 1
Forbino6 Emar 3 Parakrama-hu 2 Nicolpri 1
Ginaz 6 Estilon 3 Raicnur 2 Niembach 1
Hybla 6 Chulian 3 Sulaimani 2 Orzaba 1
Morotai 6 Jungius 3 Surakarta 2 Ossian 1
Pastran 6 Lynwyck 3 Villish 2 Paligo 1
Pinang 6 Molay 3 Xingus 2 Phyfe 1
Thorgod 6 Noabar 3 Zalmunna 2 Polotsvi 1
Tombe 6 Pibeseth 3 Mwami 1½ Reginaud 1
Ttoenne 6 Rejani 3 Amminadab 1 Rhibera 1
Bagrationi 5 Rhylme 3 Andersson 1 Shahrukh 1
Harkoanen 5 Sikcunri 3 at-Tam 1 Shi-Lang 1
Ispartha 5 Spokan.3 Barlevin 1 Yuzovka 1
From the Dune Encyclopaedia... with voting strengths in the Landsraad
Misses out the Ginaz. As they are defunct.
The link to the Encyclopaedia is somewhere inside this thread...
-Talmeth Out...
Alman 10 Medvedev 5 Vico 3 Beskid 1
Atreides 10 Penchi 5 Yasu 3 Chelly 1
Corrino 10 Togramah 5 Abefor 2 Demavend 1
Kemic 10 Ludvonsa 4½ Bendau 2 Dupleix 1
Wallach 10 Burgerich 4 Chinognia 2 Est 1
Malmusetz 9 Chlemnik 4 Costino 2 Fidbolgs 1
Wikkheiset 9 Genissai 4 Daryai 2 Iasi 1
Kyzyl 8 Guilford 4 Destrym 2 Igal 1
Opheiion 8 Hirado 4 Fenring 2 Isonzo 1
Qaii 8 Isfahan 4 Halleck 2 Jerodme 1
Tiiopa'it 8 Khumali 4 Hemming 2 Lassoki 1
Delambre 7 Masjed 4 Ichihara 2 Latzko 1
Ezharian 7 Samarama 4 Istaivan 2 Lexander 1
Hajns 7 Bromeli 3 Lidoping 2 Lompok 1
Moritilai 7 Cephalus 3 Menemtahe 2 Lonsle 1
Ordos 7 Edomdred 3 Mustami 2 Melui 1
Clanriearde 6 Elioz 3 Ngara 2 Meyerwal 1
Forbino6 Emar 3 Parakrama-hu 2 Nicolpri 1
Ginaz 6 Estilon 3 Raicnur 2 Niembach 1
Hybla 6 Chulian 3 Sulaimani 2 Orzaba 1
Morotai 6 Jungius 3 Surakarta 2 Ossian 1
Pastran 6 Lynwyck 3 Villish 2 Paligo 1
Pinang 6 Molay 3 Xingus 2 Phyfe 1
Thorgod 6 Noabar 3 Zalmunna 2 Polotsvi 1
Tombe 6 Pibeseth 3 Mwami 1½ Reginaud 1
Ttoenne 6 Rejani 3 Amminadab 1 Rhibera 1
Bagrationi 5 Rhylme 3 Andersson 1 Shahrukh 1
Harkoanen 5 Sikcunri 3 at-Tam 1 Shi-Lang 1
Ispartha 5 Spokan.3 Barlevin 1 Yuzovka 1
Sorry if I'm being a little dense here, but is there a pattern to the list? I noticed that each line has the houses listed in descending order and that the first house has at least as many votes, if not more, then the succeeding ones. Does that represent vassallage status, sysslerad groupings or anything at all?
Incidentally, there are some very cool names in there, but a lot of them look awfully familiar. After discovering that "Ordos" was originally the name of a province in China, I'm wondering if Herbert borrowed most of them from an Oriental atlas ("let's take this river here, that mountain range,...")
Hey arta, I noticed that on your list.. some of the Houses I listed arn't on your list... like Ix.... should we combine lists (like add the missing ones?)...and has anyone heard from jedi in a while?.... Anyway...what next?
-Talmeth Out...
As far as I am aware Ix is not the planet of a great house - they are an Out-freyn Culture.
Though in the prequels they are ruled by House Vernius. This disagrees with the Dune Encyclopaedia which I use as my pre-eminent source of info after the works of Frank Herbert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Vernius
In my campaign I used the name Vernius for the Exarch of Ix.
The Houses and numbers are just in columsn of numerical and alphabetical order - they are all Great Houses of the Landsraad.
Well what about house richese, the rivals of Ix... eh..semantics... just more house to provide...in any case...anyone heard from Jedi?
We are working from different sources ;) In the Dune Encyclopaedia Richese and Ix are both planets in Eridani A system. Richese is the workshop of Ix. The rivalry seems to spill from the words of the Guild Navigator in the movie.
Leto says ambiguosly "the machines of Richesse and Ix" when discussing Guild transports. Which is the only time the two are mentioned in Dune except in the brief dictionary at the end. Where for Ix - it says, see Richesse.
Great House (Homeworld)
Argosis (Argosa IV)
Atreides (Caladan)
Bulgravin (Dho Var)
Candar (Navascon)
Corrino (Kaitain)
Desivne (Gamont)
D'murjzin (Omrezhij)
Dyvetz (III Sentimus)
Ebee (Nitzevine)
Fazeel (Sutane)
Harkonnen (Giedi Prime)
Hurata (Poritrin)
Imota (Zeitral)
Jongleur (Jongleur)
Jordanaan (Lybrium)
Khirnae (Francgammon)
Lazo (Milius Prime)
Luzurenne (Vintershein)
Marcion (Perdus)
Moritani (Grumman)
Mutelli (Faranz V)
O'Garee (Hagal)
Olin (Risp VII)
Pantherin (Daranglo)
Richese (Richese)
Sor (IV Anbus)
Teranos (Golumina)
Traveleyn (Leere VI)
Tseida (Sikun)
Varota (Chusuk)
Vernius (Ix)
Vidal (Ecaz)
Wallach (Wallach VII)
Wayku (none -- dispossessed)
Ysalamud (Quistorahz)
That should be a good start -- or at least add to Arta's list.
And by way of an explanation for my absence, things are a little crazy around here these days. I'm trying to organize an emergency trip back to Arizona, but I'm also working on the game as much as I can.
Jedi Steve-OWell The Richese are also mentioned as a house in the prequels, infact Leto's mother is one (Remember?)....In anycase... CRAP... I just relized that in my serach for Jedi I owe him vehicles....why does that always slip my blasted mind....
Sorry I didn't make my sources clear. The Dune Encyclopaedia (DE) was an item authorised by Frank Herbert (and is now sadly out of print). The Novels written by Frank Herbert's son break the continuity of the DE. Each fan has to make his own choice about which works are 'true'. I prioritise the DE though will happily steal ideas from the latter (and in my opinion merely derivative rather than inspired) prequels.
Of course this is easy for me as I have never read the prequels!
Actually I was the one who should be corrected... I constantly forget that Brian's work isn't cannon so please forgive me... Your the one who is right here...But Thanks for the list... In any case...whats next? (besides.. my blasted vehicle list >_< )
Well I am missing a fully developed Caste system, and perhaps a Wealth system. Depending on the style of your campaign, caste might be vitally important; Minor House/Major House Conflict. Or not at all in a Fremem adventure.
I also need to do rules for Corrida Escuda. Oh and a list of all known narcotics and their effects...
Fremen
pyon
merchants
Civilians
Civilian Military (minor police forces)
Minor/Major house pyon
minor/Major house merchant
Minor House Civilian
Major House Civilian
Minor House Military
Major House Military
Minor House Entourage (retinue)
Major House Entourage (retinue)
Minor House Advisory (mentats, assassins, weapons masters, Bene Gesserit, etc.)
Major House Advisory (mentats, assassins, weapons masters, Bene Gesserit, etc.)
Emporer's Military (Sardukar, Fremen under Paul, etc.)
Emporer's Entourage (retinue)
Emporer's Advisory (mentats, assassins, weapons masters, Bene Gesserit, etc.)
Minor House Prince/Na-baron/etc.
Major House Prince/Na-baron/etc.
Minor House Baron/Duke/etc.
Major House Baron/Duke/etc.
Emporer's Heir/Prince
Padishah Emperor
I just don't know where the Bene Gesserit, the Spacing Guild, CHOAM, and the Tleilaxu would fit in, otherwise, how is that? a wealth system might be a pain, because we need to figure out how much Solaris equals a dollar and then we are in business... and not to sound stupid, but either I never knew, or I can't remember, but what is Corrida Escuda?? and when you say drugs, do you dune, or like all known drugs plus dune... etc?
Hmmzzz a cast system.... well my best guess from lowest to highest (I'm going all the way just so you know, so this will include the Emperor's court)
[]snip snip snip[] how is that? a wealth system might be a pain, because we need to figure out how much Solaris equals a dollar and then we are in business... and not to sound stupid, but either I never knew, or I can't remember, but what is Corrida Escuda?? and when you say drugs, do you dune, or like all known drugs plus dune... etc?
Excellent work I'll take it!
I think you have promoted the Minor House Nobles too highly - but I am nitpicking
.As for drugs I am interested in stuff that has flavour. 'Awareness Spectrum Narcotics' as Herbert called them as the term psychotropic or psychedelic was only being coined at the time of writing.
I have this so far (from the DE) which describes the Narcotics of Ecaz
ECAZ, PLANTS OF
A great many useful plants have been discovered on the planet Ecaz since it was rediscovered in 300, but only the most common families are discussed here: Equisetales mesmeris (Source of “Elacca Drug” and “Semuta”); Rosa osmyrrah(“Pleniscenta”); “Barrier Roots”(source of “Sapho”) and Isoetes certus (“Verite”).
ELACCA WOOD(Equisetales mesmeris) is a small, hollow tree with jointed stems and large, forked leaves. It is best known for its derivatives, Elacca Drug and Semuta. Elacca Drug was discovered by accident during the re-exploration of Ecaz. Members of the Voiun expedition (1403) camped in a stand of Elacca and used some of the dried stalks for a campfire. When expedition members noticed that they were developing an unusual orange-red flush, their first reaction should have been absolute panic.
They were astonished to realise that they had no craving for the safety of the shuttle and the base’s medics. Instead, an utter disregard for their own well-being gripped them. This abandon puzzled the members of the expedition, but only theoretically. For the first time since landing on Ecaz, they were unworried that they might not get off the planet. But the scientists did not appreciate the danger of their state until an insect landed on the entomologist’s arm: he calmly waited for it to bore a hole so he could determine its effects on human physiology. Even after such a display, the others were unable to prevent themselves from similar reckless in actions.
When the drug wore off a few hours later, three of the twelve expedition members were dead, and another four had severe infections. The expedition did, however, gain more knowledge than any other on the effects of various Ecazian flora and fauna on humans.
Elacca Drug has few legitimate uses and because of the characteristic flush produced by the drug, it cannot be used secretly. Generally, Elacca is employed only to evoke an ersatz bravery among arena slaves or suicide assassins (especially “shield-blowers.” who seek their quarry armed only with a body shield and a hand laser).
Elacca did yield one of the more interesting recreational drugs discovered in the past several thousand years: Semuta. Derived from fully burned Elacca ash through a process of crystal extraction, Semuta brings about a feeling of peaceful well-being combined with an intensely aural perspective of the outside universe. This aural stimulus was explained in10124, when it was discovered by the Theremin composer Alissa that a certain style of music evoked much more intense feelings in the Semuta user. The atonal music, which is tolerable only to Semuta users and veryfew others, emphasises the Semuta feelings until they overwhelm the user with what is invariably called “ecstasy.”
PLENISCENTA (Rosa osymyrrah), the “Green Perfume Flower,” is a small, delicate shrub with variegated leaves: the blooms are a brilliant emerald green and, when taken from Ecaz and sterilized, decompose with a most exquisite smell. Pleniscenta perfume has a benign psychomimetic effect: it overwhelms the olfactory nerves and causes localised synaptic responses which the brain interprets as indescribably pleasurable smells.
SAPHO is extracted from what are called “barrier roots”- — that is, roots of nearly any plant growing at or near “slag zones” where ancient atomic ground blasts fused the soil. Especially rich in Sapho are those barrier roots which also grow in deposits of peat or other soils unusually heavy in plantmatter. Sapho is distilled by diffraction from the roots, yielding approximately one litre of liquid for every eight hundred kilograms of roots. The difficulty of mining on Ecaz and the finite area in which the plants can be cultivated combine to keep the supply of Sapho limited. Most users of Sapho are Mentats, for whom the drug is a mental amplifier. Experiments with untrained subjects reveal no corresponding amplification of Mentat like abilities.
VERITE is a drug derived from the Truthtree (Isoetes certus), a member of the same class (Lycopsida) as fogwood. Verite was developed by careful experimentation with specimens of the then-unnamed tree. After its discovery, Verite enjoyed brief popularity among the younger members of the nobility, who thought it would be amusing to be unable to lie at parties. This practice ended very quickly, though, when it was discovered that the drug really did function exactly as advertised. Currently, Verite is used only in interrogation.
Sorry if I'm being a little dense here, but is there a pattern to the list? I noticed that each line has the houses listed in descending order and that the first house has at least as many votes, if not more, then the succeeding ones. Does that represent vassallage status, sysslerad groupings or anything at all?
They're arranged in descending order of number of votes, then split into four columns reading left to right (i.e. the bottom of the 1st column continues on to the top of the 2nd, and so on).
Hmmzzz a cast system.... well my best guess from lowest to highest (I'm going all the way just so you know, so this will include the Emperor's court)
Fremen
pyon
Does the word "pyon" come straight out of Dune? If not, I think you're misspelling "peon".
Wyvern
Does the word "pyon" come straight out of Dune? If not, I think you're misspelling "peon".
Wyvern
It's directly out of LUG Dune game, the CCG and I think the books too. Of course though it is just a neologism of peon.
, And I kinda wanted a complete caste system...eh....what can ya do...Heh, Wyvern... Yeah as arta said the "Herbert" term for a peon is a pyon......gah was just looking over that cast system... I have NO IDEA where the groups like the Bene Gesserit, the Spacing Guild, CHOAM, and the Tleilaxu would fit in
Well, I'd say it's not so important to fit people like the Bene Tleilaxu and other Out-Freyn cultures in. After all, the caste system was probably designed without them in mind, and since they're confined to one planet (whereas you'll find pyons or the Guild everywhere), that omission probably does not weight too heavily on anyone's mind.
Also, some groups may simply... not be part of the caste system. They don't even have to be untouchables; simply a group that does not fit any of the well-defined moulds. I think travelling performers in India ended up like that, IIRC.
-Untouchables (not sure what this would involve in the Dune universe. Probably criminals, proscribed technology enthusiasts and renegade nobles)
-Slaves
-Pyons
-Freemen (includes house employees who aren't important enough to fall under the retinue category: conscripts, technicians, domestic servants, ect)
-Gentry (artisans, merchants, ect. Essentially well-off freemen)
-Sardaukar, rank and file
-Minor House retinue*
-Major House retiune*
-Sardaukar , NCO
-Minor House noble**
-Sardaukar, Officer
-Major House noble**
-Imperial family
-Imperial heir
-Padishah Emperor
* Although the chain of command within each house varies, the social prestige of various occupations is roughly the same.
** Within each house, the standard pedigree rules are followed (we should probably look the official precedence rankings online; I'd assume Herbert followed the Western European system).
Also, my placement for the Sardaukar is a little arbitrary. I thought I saw an exact equivalency stated somewhere, but now I can't find it. Higher ranking Sarduakar were supposed to be equal to a specific level of nobility, like a count or something.
PS: What does the term "Siridar" mean? I've seen it used a lot on-line to refer to nobility but have not been able to puzzle out its meaning. I'd guess something along the lines of "house leader" from the context, but I'm not certain.
Hope it helps...
Jedi Steve-OWe see the difference between Mondeo and an old Duncan - but somehow I feel the Tleilaxu Masters like Scytale will have not lagged behind - but then they wouldn't be true clones. Masters would be unique individuals and certainly not something I would ever expect the players to get their hands on... though a displaced Master clone could be an interesting PC choice. There is also a suspicion that the Tleilax look like little grey skinned dwarves... can't recall the reference but i think it is canon. However I always presumed it was a racial slur. In any event they are basic humans in my campaign... though with extraordinary training and completely powergamed intelligent hero templates
The physiology of face-dancers is detailed in the Dune Encylopaedia, and as usual there is enough hints of science to make suspension of disbeleif easily. What it does make clear is that years of rigourous training a la ballet dancers is required in addition to the Tleilax bred physical differences. I am thinking a feat tree (Mask of a Thousand Faces, Body of the Multitude, We are Legion extended even further for the GEoD) unique to the Face Dancer subrace, with the race itself getting -2str -2con +2 dex +2 cha. In my d20 Modern conversion they will just pick up levels of Charismatic/Fast to reflect their desired skills (acting/dancing/assassination and seduction). You are just going to have to make them monsters like the doppelganger from d&d? Adding levels of Swordmaster or Assassin if they are so trained?
Note on Siridar.
AFAIK it was the other way round, Siridar was the honorific when you held the fief-complete as Duke Leto did, not quasi-fief as the Harkonnens did.
Didn't Star Wars Episode II have a shape-changing alien
Zam Wessel, Jango's partner. She was a Clawdite.
Jedi Steve-OJust wanted to say that I've tried to update the d20 DUNE Roleplaying Game, but the site is giving me a bit of trouble. Computers -- both a blessing and a curse... There are times when I'm tempted to start the Butlerian Jihad myself.
If you know where to go, then feel free to check out the latest version in the next day or so. I've completed the Scientist class and added a slew of Invention feats, as well as cleaned up some of the layout.
You can also find ArtaXerxes' fantastic DUNE Rulbuk there.
Hopefully, this will bring us all one step closer to being able to use the game and then distribute it widely.
"The stats must flow!"
Jedi Steve-OI just picked up Sandstorm (and d20 Past) and will be cannibalizing the fantastic volume for all sorts of fun feats, creatures and equipment. As a sampling...
Table 1-5: Sandstorm and Wind Effects
The perfect way to quantify if it's a Coriolis Storm or "a great-great-grandmother of a storm."
New Feats:
Heat Endurance (Improved Heat Endurance)
Sandskimmer (Sand Camouflage)
Sand Dancer (Sand Spinner)
Sand Snare
New Equipment:
Hydration Suit (becomes Stillsuit)
New Monsters:
Dire Puma (becomes Laza Tiger)
Dunewinder (with some alteration becomes Sand Worm)
Well gang, hope this whets your appetite for more. I'll be working on d20 DUNE while I'm here in AZ.
Jedi Steve-OGlad to see we are moving forward on all fronts. I especially like the completeness of your ruleset Jed. It puts my cut'n'paste hackery to shame
To those PMing me for my Rulbuk please enclose an email address - I hope to host it at some point - but lazyness is my primary characteristic.
Glad to see we are moving forward on all fronts. I especially like the completeness of your ruleset Jedi. It puts my cut'n'paste hackery to shame
No worries, Arta. The idea was to need only the core rulebook of d20 Dune to play the game. It means I have to include more in the book, but the wholeness of it was a big part of the original concept. I've also been debating putting out a mini-game version of d20 Dune as well.
The problem is, my version doesn't use the d20 Modern classes, I've had to redesign them from the ground up. Yours is probably the easier way to go.
Jedi Steve-OYour friendly neighborhood weirdo...
-Talmeth
Jedi, I know I haven't posted much, but the board hasn't been moving much... so I'll just up and ask.. What do you need me to do?
Hey Talmeth,
The key here is consistency. Slow and steady is how I'm progressing right now with d20 Dune. I'm converting a lot of the Environmental Hazards from [u]Sandstorm[/u] for use in the game, as well as several heat- and desert-related feats.
Not much for anyone else to do unless you want to design a massive melee combat system dealing with large-scale forces, or Noble House design system.
At this point though, it's getting pretty close to done. I'm on holiday in the mainland right now, but as soon as I get back to Hawaii, then I'll be working as much as possible on the game -- hopefully with more regular updates.
Jedi Steve-OYou generate the Minor House and Major Houses almost like characters. If you need to borrow my copy then I can lend it to you just PM me. Pages 24-29 and 42... & 177 onwards if you have it already.
I am thinking the old Chaosium Pendragon Land System or possibly the Birthright system (which i have never encountered).
It's something that would of been handy for the earlier parts of my campaign. In LUG's Chronicles of the Imperium they outline a system. You generate the Minor House and Major Houses almost like characters.
I am thinking the old Chaosium Pendragon Land System or possibly the Birthright system (which i have never encountered).
I've got the LUG Dune game, and I'm working on converting that to d20 -- but like everything else, it's a time-consuming process.
Don't know the Chaosium Pendragon Land System or the (D&D) Birthright system, though. Anyone?
Jedi Steve-O Jedi Steve-OSeems to cover all bases upto and including the advanced face dancers of the Scattering.
We are told in the books that their training takes a long time... so 8th for the Alter Self ability seems in keeping - and keeping the read thoughts power at 16th seems entirely reasonable... any thoughts?
-Talmeth Out
Anyhoo - yes - I'd happily help of course.
The other resource that might be useful is the Drow boxed sets - did they have a way of generating Noble Houses?
Does Fading Suns - which draws heavily on Space Opera themes have a House generation thang?
[indent]Khana Banarc, Burseg Commander of House Wallach: Armsman 7/Sardaukar 3; CR 10; Male human; V/WP 98/18; Init +5 (+3 Dex, +2 Blooded); Spd 10m; Defense 20 (+3 Dex, +7 class), touch 20, flat-footed 17; BAB +10; Grapple +12; Atk +15 melee (1d4+4/19-20, exemplary masterwork dagger); Full Atk +15/+10 melee (1d6+3/15-20, exemplary masterwork rapier), +15/+10 melee (1d4+4/19-20, exemplary masterwork dagger) or +12 melee (1d4+2, unarmed strike) or +13/+8 ranged (3d6/20, lasgun); FS/R 2 m/2 m; SQ Fearless, stability, unhindered, ability surge (1/day), unrelenting charge; AP 25; Loyalty +5 [House Wallach], +2 [Sardaukar], +1 [House Corrino]; Rep +3; SV Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +5; Str 14, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12. (+1 Dex, +1 Con) Height 1.85 m; Weight 80 kgs.
Occupation: Military (bonus skills: Command, Survival).
Skills [13/6.5]: Bluff +7, Climb +7, Command +10, Concentration +5, Demolitions +3, Intimidate +11, Jump +4, Pilot +13, Profession +1, Read/Write Gallach, Speak Gallach, Speak Wallach Battle Language, Speak Sardaukar Hand Sign, Spot +3, Survival +9, and Treat Injury +7.
Feats: Improved Damage Threshold, Natural Swordsman, Combat Martial Arts (Occ), Weapon Focus (dagger)[Arm2], Shield Fighter, Weapon Finesse (rapier)[Arm4], Blooded[Arm6], Aircraft Operation (ornithopter), Weapon Specialization (dagger), Improved Critical (rapier), Disciplined, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Lasgun Weapon Proficiency, Armor Proficiency, Shield Proficiency.
Possesions: Exemplary masterwork dueling dagger, exemplary masterwork rapier, personal shield, various personal items: House Wallach burseg's uniform, etc.[/indent]
As I'm posting this, I can see there's going to be some explanations needed. In brief: Command is a new skill taken almost exactly from the V is for Victory d20 mini-game.
The unique feats (Natural Swordsman, Shield Fighter, Blooded, and Disciplined) are fairly easy to describe, so I'll try to post more in the d20 Dune Feats thread.
His special abilities all come from his levels in the Sardaukar advanced class.
As far as designing a system (or template) for Noble Houses... I'm not really interested in unbalancing the game (more than I already have). I've created a couple of new feats that are exclusive to specific Noble Houses, but apart from a moral code and the size of their fief and CHOAM contracts, one House is pretty much the same as the next.The Loyalty System should be enough detail to deal with the Houses for now.
Jedi Steve-OWhat about the Honoured Matres (with their poweful kick attacks) from the 5th and 6th novels, does anybody have any ideas on what sort of class or prestige class that would entail? I know their similar to the Bene Gesserit, but more powerful.
Possibly akin to the Iajitsu feats from the Oriental Adventures. The synaptic responses, the blinding speed of their attacks, seem akin to these. At least thats were I would start.
and Two, That loyalty system sorta gives me an idea... what if it was like the Reputation system? give me some time to flesh it out and we can see... ^_^ -Talmeth out
What about the Honoured Matres (with their poweful kick attacks) from the 5th and 6th novels, does anybody have any ideas on what sort of class or prestige class that would entail? I know their similar to the Bene Gesserit, but more powerful.
Fear not, faithful readers! I am indeed working on an Honored Matre advanced class (but I might not include it in the core d20 Dune rules). They have unique powers to approximate the blinding speed of attack that Frank Herbert described in his novels. They don't have access to the Bene Gesserit Other Memories... so an argument as to who is "more powerful" is a discussion for another time.
Well two things.... One, are we ever gonna do that play-by-post? and Two, That loyalty system sorta gives me an idea... what if it was like the Reputation system? give me some time to flesh it out and we can see... ^_^
- Sadly, the play-by-post is on hold until the d20 Dune core rules are finalized. It was a nice idea, but a tad premature perhaps.
- The Loyalty System is already written. It acts like (and stacks with) the Reputation bonus. I'll try to post the rules as quickly as I can, but check out the Star Wars Galactic Campaign Guide for a better explanation.
Jedi Steve-O[indent]LOYALTY
One of the most prevalent species-compulsions is the theory of strength in numbers. People gather together along family lines, political affiliations, mercantile associations, and even just hobbies and interests, to pool their abilities and resources in the furtherance of their common philosophies and goals.
In DUNE, the most famous examples are the Noble Houses of the Landsraad and CHOAM—groups whose power and influence spread across the galaxy, touching lives everywhere for good or ill. Anyone can join these or other organizations, and the following section explains not only how heroes can go about joining, but what benefits they derive from membership—and what risks they face.
In the DUNE Roleplaying Game, some of the benefit of good relations and fame within an organization is represented by a character’s Reputation bonus. A positive Reputation grants a bonus on skill checks involving interaction with other characters (Bluff, Diplomacy, Entertain, Gather Information, and Intimidate). This bonus can become a penalty in some situations, when the character is better known for disreputable deeds than for good ones.
Loyalty, on the other hand, determines how strongly affiliated a character is with a given faction or organization. The higher the Loyalty with a given faction, the more trust and aid that faction affords the character. Loyalty and Reputation are related in terms of effect. The following system explains how to award and apply Loyalty bonuses.
Gaining Loyalty
A character gains a point of Loyalty whenever she completes an adventure. The player can apply that point of Loyalty to any of the factions with which she interacted positively during the adventure. A character’s Loyalty score for any given faction can never exceed +5. Each player needs to keep track of his Loyalty bonuses for each faction with which he has Loyalty.
Loyalty works the same as, and stacks with, Reputation. Whenever a charcter interacts with a member of a faction with which he has Loyalty, and would normally get to add his Reputation bonus to a roll, he can also add his Loyalty bonus.
For example, Verius is a 7th-level Armsman, with a Reputation bonus of +2. He has just completed his first spice-running contract for the Spacing Guild, and he gains a Loyalty point. He dealt positively with the Spacing Guild, so he decides to apply this point of Loyalty to that faction. He can now add his +1 Loyalty bonus as well as his Reputation bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Entertain, Gather Information, and Intimidate checks when dealing with members or representatives of the Spacing Guild. Verius now has a +3 total bonus.
Intimidate interacts differently with Reputation, and this difference applies to Loyalty as well. Characters with a bad reputation (such as those with the Infamy feat) add the full Reputation bonus, and thus the full Loyalty bonus, to Intimidate checks. Characters who are not considered infamous only add half their combined Reputation and Loyalty bonuses, rounded down.
For example, Verius tries to browbeat one of the Guild’s messengers. But Verius has a fairly good public image (he’s not infamous), so his combined Reputation and Loyalty bonus of +3 is halved to +1.5, rounded down to +1. Verius adds only +1 to his Intimidate check against the Guildsman.
Conflicting Loyalties
Characters can develop Loyalty for more than one faction—and sometimes these Loyalties conflict. What happens when a character has, for example, both Harkonnen and Atreides Loyalties? When the GM judges that a conflict of interest exists—for example, the character is negotiating with House Harkonnen to buy weapons, which may or may not be intended for House Atreides—apply the appropriate Loyalty as a bonus and the conflicting Loyalty as a penalty. In effect, the difference between the two Loyalties is the total modifier.
For example, Verius has developed a good working relationship with both Houses during the Change of Fief of Arrakis. He has a +2 Loyalty bonus for House Harkonnen and a +4 Loyalty bonus for House Atreides. When dealing with House Atreides in matters involving Arrakis, he gains only a +2 bonus (+4 Atreides Loyalty, minus +2 Harkonnen Loyalty). Conversely, when dealing with House Harkonnen in matters involving Arrakis, Verius suffers a -2 penalty (+2 Harkonnen Loyalty, minus +4 Atreides Loyalty). If Verius were trying to use Intimidate, though, remember that the total bonus provided by his Reputation and Sympathy scores is halved (giving him a +1 bonus for dealing with the Atreides, and a -1 penalty for dealing with the Harkonnens).
Losing Loyalty
Loyalty bonuses are not permanent, like Reputation bonuses are. Characters can lose Loyalty bonuses with a faction in two different ways: by overtly working against the faction, or by neglecting the faction.
Betrayal: When a character works against a faction with whom she has Loyalty, at the end of the adventure she automatically loses a point of Loyalty with that faction. For example, a character with Atreides Loyalty who hijacks an Atreides supply shipo during an adventure loses one point of Loyalty with House Atreides.
This Loyalty loss is cumulative. A charcter who actively opposes a faction multiple times in the same adventure can lose multiple Loyalty points. Loyalty points can never drop below zero, however.
Neglect: When a character stops working with a faction, the faction begins to lose interest in working with the character. Every time a character advances a level, the player rolls a d20 for each faction and adds the character’s Loyalty score for that faction. The player does not roll for the highest-rated faction. The character’s highest Loyalty score sets the DC. (If two or more scores are tied for the highest, the player chooses which sets the DC; the player must then roll for the others.) If the check fails, the character loses a point of Loyalty for that faction.
For example, after an adventure, Verius adds a point to his Atreides Loyalty score, and advances a level. He now has a +5 Spacing Guild Loyalty, a +4 Atreides Loyalty, and a +2 Harkonnen Loyalty. His Guild Loyalty score sets the DC for the checks at 15. He rolls 1d20 and adds +4 for his Atreides Loyalty, and gets a 12, for a total of 16—just enough. He repeats the process for his Harkonnen Loyalty, and gets a 7, for a total of 9—short of what he needs. Verius loses a point of Harkonnen Loyalty, but maintains his good relations with House Atreides.
Joining a Faction
A character can officially join a faction or organization. Doing so usually requires the organization’s approval, and such approval often only follows a period of observation or a test of loyalty (see the individual faction descriptions). There may be a minimum Loyalty bonus requirement as well.
Joining a faction offers a number of advantages. For starters, the character gains 1 point of Loyalty for that faction. Also, he can take faction-specific feats and prestige classes.
However, there is a down side. When a character joins a faction, he loses 1 point of Loyalty for all other factions with which he has Loyalty. A character can also join only one faction at a time and must leave his current faction before joining a different one. Leaving a faction often has its own set of disadvantages.
NOBLE HOUSES
Many planets throughout the universe have become wealthy and prosperous over millennia, developing groups of nobles who dominate the political structures of their worlds. Regardless of how or why they came to be – whether legitimate bloodlines or bloody coups – noble houses are the backbone of society throughout the civilized universe, and their strength often reaches beyond the bounds of their home systems and into the galaxies around them.
Formally recognized houses exist in a body called the Landsraad, a council of minor and major houses that hold political sway. These houses are constantly embroiled in politics, both on a local and a galactic scale. The Landsraad have large numbers of nobles on the books, as they are typically chosen to represent their respective planets in the political scene. Additionally, bureaucrats and businessmen frequently rise from the ranks of the noble houses, and many of the galaxy’s most prominent corporations are owned and operated by noble houses, such as TaggeCo and the illustrious CHOAM.
Much like crime families of modern day, noble houses often partake in feuds and conflicts among themselves as they struggle for power and prestige. This intrigue is so common, in fact, that it has both a name and formalized rules. Kanly, as the ancient art of vendetta is called, has strict rules as to who can and cannot be a target of formal assassination, as well as the methods used (i.e. poison, knives, etc.). These conflicts are fierce and deadly more often than not, especially between houses that hail from the same planet or system. From duels to assassinations, the perils of being a prominent noble from a house with any sort of power are many and prevalent, even more so for those noble who are particularly vocal or visible. Many simply see that as the price of their power, or a necessary side effect of furthering their families’ goals. Many of these feuds can last hundreds, and even thousands of years.
Noble houses are both common and powerful. On Kaitan, the current seat of the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV, nobles have all the luxuries they could ever need and still remain close to the action. On other worlds, some of the most wealthy and powerful noble houses in the galaxy dominate their planets. A crude distinction between major and minor houses is the size of the Imperial fief they command. So close to the cultural hub of the galaxy, major house nobles stay on the cutting edge of politics, fashion, and business—and often times they control the trends and attitudes of surrounding systems. These nobles are often arrogant and self-possessed, and their knowledge of their own importance frequently gives them a haughtier attitude than most other nobles exhibit.
Major house nobles are often confident to the point of arrogance. Living in the center of the universe, the major houses of the Landsraad come to think that since life on their planet revolves around their actions, the lives of citizens of faraway worlds revolve around them as well. These noble houses are not all bluster and conceit; they do wield considerable power, often using their clout to further good and charitable causes. Their sense of self-importance, however, sometimes leads them to meddle in the affairs of others.
Regardless, most noble houses of the Landsraad are good to their friends and vicious to their enemies. It’s always better to remain on good terms with such houses, rather than find oneself on the bad end of a noble’s power.
Noble House Loyalty
The noble houses are like factions unto themselves; they have their own goals, methods, and distinct modes of operation that set them apart from each other. While being allied with one noble house does not automatically mean one is the enemy of all other noble houses, anyone showing favor to one house or another can become entangled in a vast and dangerous web of political intrigue. Simply working for or doing routine business with a noble house is rarely enough to flag one as an ally to that particular house. However, long-term contracts or sensitive assignments attaract the attention of rival houses.
One can often earn the trust of a noble house by simply proving reliable when given a job to do and performing it in a way that reflects positively on the house itself. Secret assassinations and dependable spy work are commonplace enough in the struggles between nobles that those with the ability to perform such unsavory tasks with as little fanfare as possible are also highly valued. Any character who repeatedly and reliably works for a given noble house is almost assured to gain their favor, and along with any benefits they may gain comes considerable danger from house rivals.
Joining a Noble House
Noble houses do not compose a single faction; rather, each major (and minor) noble house is a faction in its own right. A character pledges allegiance to, and joins, a particular noble house. Beings who live on a planet or in a sector owned or run by a noble house are generally conisdered commoners in the service of that noble house. Those who work for the various organizations and corporations owned by a noble house are alos frequently under their protection, and are likewise expected to show a certain amount of loyalty. That does not make them members of the noble house, however, or even imply that they are sympathetic to the house.
Actually joining a noble house is far more complicated than simply being a good servant. Nobles look for someone with leadership and social skills to add to their ranks. They do not simply grant titles to great workers, either; rather, they seek out those who can add something unique and beneficial to the house’s reputation, only inviting them into the fold when these special qualities have been identified. A noble house favors men and women of high standing, elegant looks, wit, and charm.
Being granted a title and any sort of power is something of a rarity, but those who have achieved such a position have definitely earned it by showing dedication to the ideals held by the rest of the noble house.
Leaving a Noble House
Like a crime family, a noble house is not to be abandoned lightly. Though it is possible to leave a noble house on good terms, often nobles take offense at what they see as a slight and mark the person leaving as an enemy or a traitor.
Leaving on good terms usually means resigning and yielding any position or title to a designated successor. This can be due to retirement, to accepting a high-ranking position outside the house (such as head of a corporation or CHOAM directorship), or to a simple desire to escape the politics. Leaving a noble house in this way reduces a character’s Loyalty to half its previous level (rounded down).
Leaving on bad terms is another matter entirely. Deserting a noble house is risky, as its members hold grudges and have the resources available to catch and bring back deserters. Noble houses can afford to post exorbitant bounties on the heads of former members, and sometimes the bounty is as good as a death warrant. Leaving a noble house this way results in the loss of all noble Loyalty.
Faction Feats
The following feat is associated with the noble houses.
Untouchable
Your status as a member of a noble house makes it difficult for criminal charges to stick, thanks to the prestige and sway your position gives you.
Prerequisite: Noble House [any] Loyalty +5.
Benefit: When dealing with law enforcement or government officials, you may double your Reputation bonus.
Special: You must have joined a noble house to take this feat. If you later leave the noble house, you lost the benefits of this feat.
LORD OF THE EXPENSE Advanced Class
Nobles are often referred to as “Lords of the Expanse,” because of the large domains they rule. The Major Houses, such as Atreides, Corrino, Harkonnen, Tseida and Wallach, each rule an entire system (or systems) and billions of sentient beings. The Lords of the Expanse control the lives of their subjects, granting prosperity through their benevolence or suffering through their malice, often as the whim strikes them.
Requirements
To qualify to become a Lord of the Expanse, a character must fulfill the following criteria:
Skills: Bluff 6 ranks, Diplomacy 8 ranks, Gather Information 6 ranks.
Feat: Influence.
Reputation: +5.
Special: The character must be a member-in-good-standing of a noble house in the Landsraad.
Class Information
Vitality: A Lord of the Expanse gains 1d6 vitality points per level. The character’s Constitution modifier applies.
Action Points: A Lord of the Expanse gains a number of action points equal to 6 + one-half her character level, rounded down, at each level in this class.
Class Skills
The Lord of the Expanse’s class skills (and key ability for each skill) are as follows.
Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft* (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Entertain (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gamble (Wis), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge* (Int), Profession (Wis), Read/Write Language (none), Sense Motive (Wis), and Speak Language (none).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Class Features
The following are features of the Lord of the Expanse prestige class.
Starting Feats
The Lord of the Expanse gains the following feats: Lasgun Proficiency, Simple Weapons Proficiency.
Moment of Weakness
A Lord of the Expanse has trained himself to see the weaknesses of others and knows how to exploit them to his advantage. A Lord of the Expanse may make one additional attack of opportunity per round.
Minions
Beginning at 2nd level, a Lord of the Expanse can add his Lord of the Expanse class level to any Reputation checks made to attract followers.
Resource Access
At 3rd level, a Lord of the Expanse has access to a wide array of resources. Once per day, the Lord of the Expanse can make a Charisma check to use those resources.
Commanding Presence
A Lord of the Expanse has an unnerving aura of leadership that is easily perceived by others. Starting at 4th level, the Lord of the Expanse gains a +2 inherent bonus on all opposed checks.
Personal Transport
At 5th level, the Lord of the Expanse gains a starship for his personal use. This ship is always a space transport and is most commonly a stock Guardian-class light cruiser (though the GM can assign the character any space transport, at her discretion).
HOUSE ATREIDES
One of the great houses of the Imperial Landsraad, House Atreides hails from the watery planet of Caladan and employs unlikely methods in its struggle to secure the spice of Arrakis: noble spirit, just ways and unfailing virtue. Ruling its homeworld Caladan for generations with justice and generosity, House Atreides has perfected a form of government that results in a well-organized society and a spiritually satisfied people. Little wonder that Caladan is the lush, prosperous paradise that it is.
House Atreides is ruled by a Duke. It should be noted that the house claims to be (and probably is) named after the Atreidae or House of Atreus of ancient terran Greek mythology. The descendants of Atreus are called Atreides in Greek language. This Royal House included many significant mythological figures.
Faction Feat
The following feat is associated with House Atreides.
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Weirding Module) [Atreides]
You are proficient with the sonic-based Weirding modules in ranged combat.
Prerequisite: House Loyalty [Atreides] 2+, Personal Firearms Proficiency.
Benefit: You make attack rolls with the weapon normally.
Normal: A character who uses a weapon without being proficient with it takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls.
HOUSE CORRINO
One of the great houses of the Imperial Landsraad. This noble house hailing from the watery planet of Caladan employs unlikely methods in its struggle to secure the spice of Arrakis: noble spirit, just ways and unfailing virtue. Ruling its homeworld Caladan for generations with justice and generosity, House Atreides has perfected a form of government that results in a well-organized society and a spiritually satisfied people. Little wonder that Caladan is the lush, prosperous paradise that it is.
Faction Feat
The following feat is associated with House Corrino.
Devotion [Corrino]
Your men are insanely loyal to you and will do almost anything you ask of them.
Prerequisite: House Loyalty [Corrino] +2, Command 6 ranks.
Benefit: You may reroll the result of a failed Command check. The second roll is final.
HOUSE HARKONNEN
One of the great houses of the Imperium, House Harkonnen is built on a simple foundation of fear and terror, two tactics that make the Baron Harkonnen's underlings that much more dangerous: risk death on the battlefield or suffer a slow, excruciating death in the Baron's chambers as he watches with relish. With an order based on treachery, soldiers rise through the ranks through deceit, trickery and, if necessary, assassination.
Hailing from an industrial wasteland of a planet called Giedi Prime, the House Harkonnen is much like its Baron: cold, ruthless, egomaniacal, but brilliant and lethally efficient. Most of all, it's driven by a kanly (vendetta) against House Atreides, which the Harkonnen feel has taken what's rightly theirs: the whole planet of Arrakis and the spice Melange.
House Harkonnen is ruled by a Siridar Baron. Used to exerting control over those below them, Harkonnens do not take kindly to any who would challenge their view of order. Harkonnens are considerably quicker to use lethal means of eliminating opponents than some nobles. Much like their ancient ancestors, the Harkonnen noble house is composed of men (and women) of action. When a Harkonnen noble sees an obstacle in his path, he eliminates it with whatever method he supposes to be most expedient and efficient, whether this means a simple threat or an arranged murder. Harkonnen politics have a well-deserved reputation for being both complex and fatal, and it is primarily the Harkonnen bloodline that contributes to this perception.
Harkonnen nobles are constantly vying for power, but unlike some nobles they can be painfully blunt. This is not to imply that Harkonnens simply say what they mean; rather, Harkonnen nobles are unafraid to take action against their opponents. Harkonnens do not dance around an issue, but prefer to make their move and deal with the consequences as they arise.
Faction Feat
The following feat is associated with House Harkonnen.
Dyed In The Wool [Harkonnen]
You know how to use terror to intimidate people.
Prerequisites: House Loyalty [Harkonnen] 1+ ranks, 6+ ranks in Intimidate.
Benefit: You may make a coup de grace attack on a helpless opponent as a standard action. Additionally, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Intimidate checks against anyone viewing the execution.
Normal: Delivering a coup de grace is a full-round action.[/indent]*snip* End preview.
That's the beginning of the section... There's a specific feat for each Noble House and/or faction (such as Bene Geserit, Sardaukar and the Suk School) but that should explain the basics of the Loyalty system. Enjoy...
Jedi Steve-O...in any case... I think there should be more faction feats (if you want help I can try).... also maybe faction specific equipment... hmmzzz... but this House creation system... its still puzzling me....
I'm fine with the faction feats as they are now, one (maybe two) per faction as a reward for loyalty. As for faction specific equipment, the exotic weapon [weirding module] is just that -- exclusive to House Atreides.
Just as a side note: Yes, I know the weirding modules weren't "in the books." I'm including them as optional since I like them.
As for a House creation system -- there's not much to create. I've got a basic template that I've modified from the LUG Chronicles of the Imperium game, with a little help from d20 Fading Suns.
Here's an example from d20 Dune:
[indent]HOUSE ATREIDES PROFILE
One of the great houses of the Imperial Landsraad. This noble house hailing from the watery planet of Caladan employs unlikely methods in its struggle to secure the spice of Arrakis: noble spirit, just ways and unfailing virtue. Ruling its homeworld Caladan for generations with justice and generosity, House Atreides has perfected a form of government that results in a well-organized society and a spiritually satisfied people. Little wonder that Caladan is the lush, prosperous paradise that it is.
- Noble Titles: Siridar Duke of Caladan
- Houses Minor: House Demios, House Parthenope, and House Spiridon
- House Holdings: Caladan (Siridar Duchy)
Atreides House Minor — House Demios
Most closely related of the Houses Minor, House Demios traces its spear lineage back to the pre-Caladanan era. House Demios is favored by the Atreides for its strident political support and deft statesmanship. Of those tools of statecraft held within its arsenal, House Demios specializes in political intrigue and adroit negotiation.
Atreides House Minor — House Parthenope
Flavor text.
Atreides House Minor — House Spiridon
Flavor text.
House Atreides
Long venerated for its honorable conduct and pursuit of justice, House Atreides exemplifies the noble traditions and high ideals upon which the Great Convention and the Landsraad are founded. House Atreides has faithfully served the Imperium for some ten thousand years, building its considerable reputation over millennia of proven leadership, unyielding courage, and steadfast morality.
House Legacy
More than once an Atreides nobleman has boasted descent from the mythical House of Atreus named in ancient Terran legends; but such prideful jests hardly diminish the noble ancestry of the venerable Atreides bloodline. Their progenitor being a distaff cousin to the Emperor Sarda I and a Bashar of the Corps serving in the Imperial fleet, House Atreides has proven its loyalty on many occasions, earning numerous Imperial titles and holdings. Having governed the siridar-duchy of Caladan now for some twenty-six generations, the Atreides seem content to rule over Caladan as their adopted homeworld.
House Ethos
Now led by Duke Leto Atreides, oft dubbed Duke Leto the Just (or “The Red Duke”), House Atreides stands as the informal spokesman for many federated Houses of the Landsraad. Revered by the lesser members as staunch supporters of House rights, House Atreides enjoys great popularity by maintaining its reputation as a champion of reformation within the Landsraad High Council.
Though not one of the wealthier Houses, House Atreides wields considerable political influence as a result of its noble titles and benevolent ideology. Because it contends that personal honor, just governance, and conventional morality are traits to be prized above all others, House Atreides lays an attractive hearth around which many Houses assemble. While detractors of House Atreides argue that its ideals show signs of tarnish and its methods grow bittle with age, few deny that the Atreides hone sincerity to a fine edge—pledging loyalty for loyalty—and paying such debts from seemingly bottomless coffers.
House Entourage
Son of Duke Paulus Atreides—whose spectacular demise in the corrida has become legend among the Atreides subjects—and Lady Helena of Richese, Duke Leto Atreides stands as the titular head of House Atreides. His Mentat and Master of Assassins Thufir Hawat serves at his side, entering a second generation of service to House Atreides. The Lady Jessica, an adept from the Bene Gesserit Mother School on Wallach IX, graces Castle Caladan as the Duke’s bound concubine and mother of the ducal heir—the young Paul Atreides. In military matters the Duke relies not only on Thufir Hawat, but also on two valorous souls—the troubadour-warrior Gurney Halleck, and Duncan Idaho, legendary Swordmaster of the Ginaz School. Rescued from the Harkonnen slave pits on Giedi Prime, Gurney Halleck repays his debt serving as Atreides Warmaster and House Minstrel. Sharing Gurney’s hatred of the Harkonnens, Duncan Idaho pledges his military expertise and legendary swordsmanship, serving House Atreides as one of the finest duelists in the Known Universe. And not to be overlooked, Dr. Wellington Yueh, a Suk graduate of the Inner School, serves as House Physician and scientific advisor for House Atreides.
House Relations
- House Corrino: The Golden Lion Throne must be preserved, though the Padishah Emperor needs to reform his policies if he’s to rule with our consent.
- House Harkonnen: The Harkonnens are perverse animals—nothing more. In time, their unbridled lust for power will once again prove their undoing.
- House Moritani: Though responsible for the destruction of our former allies House Ginaz, the Moritani are unwitting pawns in a greater game.
- House Tseida: We admire their legal acumen and diplomatic grace. In the past they have served our allies, and we’re happy to act as their proxy in the Landsraad Hall of Oration.
- House Wallach: The strongest of our remaining allies, House Wallach shares many of our traditions and supports our struggle against tyranny.
*snip*
Something like that...
Jedi Steve-OThis is the hottest thing to come out of the intraweb since goatse.
Jedi Steve-O. I don't know you. I've never met you. I probably never will. But I will gladly bear your children. Don't let my male status get in the way of that.
This is the hottest thing to come out of the intraweb since goats.
Wow.
Who could refuse an offer like that? Besides, with all the cloning going on these days, anything is possible. Thanks for the high praise Zeke. I'll keep you on the list of people who'd like to see the finished copy. Jedi Steve-OP.S. If you have any contacts in the gaming industry, tell them to tell Monte Cook to hire me. Or you could just send him e-mails telling him how great I am... or at least get him to return my phone calls. Ever since what shall only be referred to as "The Garbage Can Incident" I can't get within 200 yards of him (or his precious trash) without violating the restraining order. Geez... so I'm a big fan. What's the harm in looking through his stuff? It's not like he's using it anymore. Some people.
Does Fading Suns - which draws heavily on Space Opera themes have a House generation thang?
I'm not sure exactly what kind of rules you have in mind, but I don't think you'll find it in Fading Suns (admittedly, I don't have the Nobles & Priests sourcebook). Rulewise, Noble houses in FS are defined by which skills, perks, flaws, etc. they're most likely to possess, but this is just a list of recommedations; you're not bound by it. There are no special bonuses or penalties for belonging to a specific house, and creating a new house is just a matter of listing appropriate skills, etc..
Wyvern
First of all, say hello to our newest poster babysamurai... Welcome. Fear not, faithful readers! I am indeed working on an Honored Matre advanced class (but I might not include it in the core d20 Dune rules). They have unique powers to approximate the blinding speed of attack that Frank Herbert described in his novels. They don't have access to the Bene Gesserit Other Memories... so an argument as to who is "more powerful" is a discussion for another time.
- Sadly, the play-by-post is on hold until the d20 Dune core rules are finalized. It was a nice idea, but a tad premature perhaps.
- The Loyalty System is already written. It acts like (and stacks with) the Reputation bonus. I'll try to post the rules as quickly as I can, but check out the Star Wars Galactic Campaign Guide for a better explanation.
Thank you for the welcome Jedi Steve-O,
First of all, I want to commend every one on their hard work and ideas for this project (about perhaps the most in depth socio-science fiction novel series ever).
You're right about the Honoured Matre's not being more powerful than the Bene Gesserit, at least mentally. But one thing I've forgotten, I know the Honoured Matre's are related to the Bene Gesserit (correct me if I'm wrong), but was there another group relating to them?--Fish Speakers/Fedaykin, or some other group. I have not read the series for a few years, and I've forgotten. One last thing (thank god), what (if any) are you're favourite character's. I myself like Jessica because of her strength of...well everything, and Thufir Hawatt because he's just a bad-ass.
The Honored Matres where indeed descendants of both renegade Bene Gesserit and the Fish Speakers; the God Emperors all female army.
Aha, thought so, thanks a lot artaxerxes. Also (please tell me if you guys have already covered this), what about the mechanics for Heart-Plugs?
Aha, thought so, thanks a lot artaxerxes. Also (please tell me if you guys have already covered this), what about the mechanics for Heart-Plugs?
HOLY CRAP!!!! I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT HEART-PLUGS!!!!!!!!!! *slaps self silly*
Thank you for the welcome Jedi Steve-O,
First of all, I want to commend every one on their hard work and ideas for this project (about perhaps the most in depth socio-science fiction novel series ever).
Heh, he does a good job welcoming everyone ^_^... and your the first person to actually relize that there is more than just Jedi to this project (I'm guilty of this too, it took me a few posts to relize)
If you have any contacts in the gaming industry, tell them to tell Monte Cook to hire me. Or you could just send him e-mails telling him how great I am... or at least get him to return my phone calls. Ever since what shall only be referred to as "The Garbage Can Incident" I can't get within 200 yards of him (or his precious trash) without violating the restraining order. Geez... so I'm a big fan. What's the harm in looking through his stuff? It's not like he's using it anymore. Some people
ummm Jedi, is there something you need to tell us about... ? ;)
Regarding how you will handle face dancers (and forgive me if someone has mentioned this already) have you considered looking at the Changeling race for the Eberron Campaign Setting. They're like toned down dopplegangers. The supplement Races of Eberron contains all the rules for them that were printed in the ECS book as well as a lot more background and Changeling-specific feats. Just a thought.
Once again, please forgive me if you've already covered this, but has anyone done anything on Axlotl Tanks and Cloning (like the Duncan's--Hayt)
As far as I know it hasn't been touched upon. I had a discussion recently about why they are so called on another list which is slightly off topic - but what the hey.
Ghola is of course related to the term ghoul which was first coined in
1786, in Beckford's "Vathek," from Arabic. 'ghul', an evil spirit that robs graves and feeds on corpses, from 'ghala' "he seized."
However the 'Axolotl' reference puzzled me, for a long time.
I stumbled across a deity "Xolotl" in "The History of the DeVil". Legend has
Quetzalcoatl and his twin brother Xolotl, descending to hell and retrieving
human bones. By dripping Quetzacoatl's blood onto the bones they were able to effect human resurrection. This lept from the page.
This made me think anew about the Bene Tleilax. The potential etymology of "Tleilax" reeks of the same contructions that we see in pre-Columbian word sounds.
Was Herbert drawing on these cultures when he constructed the Tleilax of the first 3 books?
Ultimately though, I think the Axolotl Tanks come from;
"The axolotl is used in research and large numbers are bred in captivity. The feature of the salamander that attracts most attention is its healing ability: the axolotl does not heal by scarring and is capable of the regeneration of entire lost appendages in a period of months, and, in certain cases, more vital structures. Some have indeed been found restoring the less vital parts of their brains. They can also readily accept transplants from other individuals, including eyes and parts of the brain - restoring these alien organs to full fuctionality. In metamorphosed individuals, however, this ability is greatly diminished. Another attractive feature, for research, is the large and robust embryos. Axolotls are especially easy to breed compared to other salamanders in their family, which are almost never captive bred."
Now back to the subject at hand - the Tleilax are masters of body augmentation and modification. I feel any standard d20 cyberpunk rules could be usefully adapted to reflect their unique skillset.
Aha, thought so, thanks a lot artaxerxes. Also (please tell me if you guys have already covered this), what about the mechanics for Heart-Plugs?
The thing about heartplugs (were they exclusively Harkonnen?) is, that once you've had one installed, if you pull it out, you're dead. Not much of a mechanic needed. Perhaps a successful grapple check? The whole point is that they were like heart-grenades -- pull the pin and boom. Death.
Kind of feel like I'm showing up to the prom right before the last dance. There's a ton here and even though I've only read about half the pages I'm pumped to see this thing when it's done.
Welcome to the d20 Dune boards, tuco. Looking forward to seeing some good stuff from you, too.
Regarding how you will handle face dancers (and forgive me if someone has mentioned this already) have you considered looking at the Changeling race for the Eberron Campaign Setting. They're like toned down dopplegangers. The supplement Races of Eberron contains all the rules for them that were printed in the ECS book as well as a lot more background and Changeling-specific feats. Just a thought.
Thanks for the heads-up about the Changeling race. Actually, I've been working off the Clawdite race from Star Wars Alien Anthology as a basis. I'll take a closer look at the Eberron Changelings.
Once again, please forgive me if you've already covered this, but has anyone done anything on Axolotl Tanks and Cloning (like the Duncan's--Hayt)
Clones are actually being included as a template courtesy of the d20 Future rules, including cybernetic augmentation and limb-replacement... In accordance with those rules, the genetic make-up of the cloned character can be altered both mentally (Int, Wis, or Cha) and physically (Str, Dex, or Con) to suit the purposes. Putting stats to the Axolotl tanks is a bit like pulling back the curtain on the Great Wizard of Oz, so maybe they should remain a mystery...
Jedi Steve-O:lightbulb I've got an idea. I'm pushing myself to have this game ready to play by June 1st. I'm headed to Comic-Con with some friends this year and I'd love to meet up with some of the folks from this thread and reward your hard work with a little playtesting. I'm offering to personally GM a d20 Dune game for anybody who can make it. Plus I might have some printed copies of the game for the players...
The trick now is to figure out which day/night would work best for everyone. It's possible to do on two different nights if I get enough players...
Think about it and let me know who's interested -- if you wanna play, sign up here.
Jedi Steve-O-Talmeth out...
OMFG, if I can goto this Comic Con, I will...but mind you, that it will cost me a plane ticket, since I live in Texas >_< But... if I can figure something out, I WOULD LOVE TO JOIN YOU...
Well, that's one "definite maybe." If you're in Texas, why fly? Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a roadtrip. As for me, I'll also be getting a plane ticket (as it would take me forever to paddle to the mainland). San Diego here I come!
Jedi Steve-O Jedi Steve-OI'm not sure if you have answered this or not (haven't had time to read all of the pages), but what kind of monetary system are you planning on using?
Anyway, I'll congratulate again on the work you've done so far. Keep up the great work.
I'm not sure if you have answered this or not (haven't had time to read all of the pages), but what kind of monetary system are you planning on using?
That's a good question... the draft copy seemed to include both wealth bonuses and numerical solari prices/quantities (I think the Noble's resource use ability, for example, was denominated in solaris, while some of the other class abilities were stated in terms of wealth bonuses).
Also, as long as we're talking about bonuses, I have a slight quibble with the loyalty system, specificially the way that it gets awarded. The description in the book seemed to imply that the player got to allocate one loyalty point to a faction of his choice (within broad limits) per adventure. I'm not sure this is a good idea, especially given the emphasis on GM judgement in the rest of D20 Dune. I think it would make more sense for the GM to determine when players gain loyalty and how much, especially since the existing system could lead to abuse (Player: "Well, I talked up that Guild flunky at the embassy and I might need a favor from the Guild later, so I think I'll put the loyalty in 'Guild'." GM: "But the adventure was about protecting a Bene Gesserit agent in House Harkonnen!").
Under "House Corrino", you accidentally repeated the description of House Atreides.
The "Resource Access" feature of the Lord of the Expanse PrC is terribly vague; I hope it's better spelled out in the full rules. And I think there's a bit missing from the description of "Commanding Presence". Surely you mean "all Charisma-based opposed skill checks"? Because I can't see how an "unnerving aura of leadership" would help with, for example, a Move Silently check (opposed by Listen), or an opposed grapple check.
Wyvern
I've been reading a few of these posts, and I must say, this game looks impressive. So impressive that I'll buy a copy once your done. I can't wait to see a finished version.
As would I...
I'm new to the list and fantastically interested in the Dune D20 you guys are working on....
Wish I could have made the Con, but being in Germany makes it difficult..
Sabot
Second, Welcome to the Forum, lately things have been slow as Jedi Steve-O has been a little busy with the real world... I'm still working on my vehicles, but if you can come up with something to contribute I can tell you (from personal experience) it will be VERY welcome ^_^
Third, Have fun and enjoy the free punch and Pie ^_^
-Talmeth
.) But back on topic, I know you have plans for adding information of the era, but will you be adding stats and classes, like for a Fish Speaker?Also, if you really wanted to make money off of this, you could accept donations. Just an idea.
Jedi Steve-OMy d20 Modern Based Dune Conversion is here
www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~dsf/rpg/dune/DUNE.zip [right click and save]
the conversion is called DUNE RULBUK and assumes you have access to
the D20 Modern SRD. Available for free online here in HTML format
http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Home.php
There are a few background files and the current synopsis of my campaign too. Though they should be of little use to you
other than to confuse and astound!Finally hosted the file somewhere handy for all...
My d20 Modern Based Dune Conversion is here
www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~dsf/rpg/dune/dune.zip [right click and save]
It appears your link is broken. When I cut and pasted it into a new window I got an error 404 from the Univeristy of Sterling's website.
Then I backed it up a bit and did manage to find it but the link was a tiny bit different:
http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~dsf/rpg/dune/DUNE.zip
Dune is all CAPS in the .zip
Just helping out
Gotta be a short post -- just a quick update to tell you guys I'm quitting my job to have more time to work on this project (okay, that's not really why I'm quitting, but still...). I'll be at Comic-Con this year, so anyone who wants to play, message me and we'll set up a game.
Wish I could be there...
Maybe I've missed it but have you compiled your conversion into a convenient location or file?
I'd love a chance to check it out in it's entirety.
Thannks!
Patrick~
It appears your link is broken.
http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~dsf/rpg/dune/DUNE.zip
Dune is all CAPS in the .zip
Just helping out
I will hand in my geek card now
"nice"
I'm offically registered at this year's San Diego Comic-Con so I'll definitely be there. Any more takers on a d20 Dune game run by yours truly? (Need I mention that all players will get their very own copy of the rules?)
Okay, the idea is that I'm logged on here to work on the game some more, so I've got to use my internet time wisely. See you soon!
Jedi Steve-OI would love to know if someone know what I'm talking about ?
Simon
Sadly WotC had made a d20 version of it and never released it.
Maybe they will .... one day.
I will hand in my geek card now
King of Geeks here
Not realy, I am **** tho..... =P
I wanted to ask to WotC why did they destroyed the Dune RPG that "I don't remember the game compagny" when they bought them. The game was ready and would have been launched 2 or 3 weeks after the transaction. but when that transaction was made. The game aborted.
I would love to know if someone know what I'm talking about ?
Simon
Last Unicorn Games
http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/dune_game_991019.html
2000(?) Copies were released at gencon. It goes for big bucks on eBay and is a work of art. The rules are clunky and un-useable though - hence why I wrote my Dune d20 Conversion.
Then they were bought by WotC, and I beleive the licence from the Herbert Estate expired and they demanded too much for WotC to consider re-newing it.
Last Unicorn Games [LUG] was the design studio.
Sadly WotC had made a d20 version of it and never released it.
Maybe they will... one day.
This whole project is precisely because I don't want to have to wait for "one day" or "some day." I don't like having to put my life on hold while a couple corporations decide whether or not they can get along long enough to put out a game (that was already designed!) for one of the most popular sci-fi novels of all time.
So, we're doing it ourselves. And hopefully getting a little notice in the meantime. Maybe one of these gaming companies will see what great work I do with no budget, no design team (and working from an internet cafe for many weeks) and say, "Gee -- we should get this Jedi Steve-O guy to work for us! He'd put out amazing work! Just look at this Dune project!"
Well, a guy can dream, can't he?
Jedi Steve-O simply because its in like 12 days and I don't have a plane ticket BUT I was wondering If I paid for shipping would you be willing to send me a copy like one of the players who you GM for at Comic-Con?? I only ask cause I really want one.. and I've helped with like .50% of all the total work :P anyway-Talmeth
See you all at Comic-Con!
Jedi Steve-Od20 DUNE RULBUK *LINK FIXED*
I have finally put up a sliver of a webpage for my take on the d20 Modern Converted DUNE RULBUK
www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~dsf/rpg/dune
Unfortunately, that link doesn't seem to work.
I have been poking at this thread trying to find out if there is a website or PDF available for what's been done for this project, but the thread is just too long, so here I shall declare my support and ask: where can I get at this? I have access to the LUG Dune book, and I despise their Icon system thoroughly. I do like the idea of having the characters as the important figures of a House Minor, however, and would love to try that with these d20 rules.
I have been poking at this thread trying to find out if there is a website or PDF available for what's been done for this project, but the thread is just too long, so here I shall declare my support and ask: where can I get at this? I have access to the LUG Dune book, and I despise their Icon system thoroughly. I do like the idea of having the characters as the important figures of a House Minor, however, and would love to try that with these d20 rules.
Welcome to the thread, Raven. Thanks for your support, and yes, I agree with you that the Icon system is to be despised and exiled wherever it is found. The campaign I want to run is where the characters are important figures of House Wallach and the rules include play on Arrakis and other planets, political intrigue as well as lasgun and shield combat.
I'm compiling a list of folks who'd like a copy of the PDF (when it's done) so... I'll just add your name to the list then? :D I'm right in the middle of trying to finish up the rough draft in time for Comic-Con in San Diego, but once that happens, I'll be publishing the finished version on the web (at a site to be named later).
Thanks again for all the support from everyone who's chipped in both their advice and their criticism -- it all helps.
Jedi Steve-O-Talmeth
As for your Force Tradition project, sorry to say that due to work/time constraints I've been trying to focus on d20 Dune. But rest assured, I am indeed a big ol' Star Wars fan, and I'll take a look at it as soon as I can.
For the rest of us, I'm moving in 5 days so trying to complete Dune and pack up all my worldly possessions.
Jedi Steve-OP.S. On a side-note, I feel a bit like House Atreides right now. I'm leaving paradise (Maui/Caladan) to move to a desert (Arizona/Dune).
"I'll miss the sea... But a person needs new experiences. They jar something deep inside us, allowing us to grow. Without it, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken."
If you are still taking requests for copies please put my name in.
I think that a d20 Dune is a wonderful idea. I wish I would have found this thread months ago. I kinda feel like the kid who started a new school two weeks before graduation.
Hey Boz, welcome to the party. It's still in full swing, so no worries. Once I run the game at Comic-Con, I'll have a much better idea as to what exactly I need to add/fix with the game. Hopefully you're just getting here when the party gets good. (Although, historically, that's right about when it gets busted by the cops, so let's hope that's where the metaphor ends.) :D
Jedi Steve-OP.S. I'll add your name to the list. PDFs for everyone!
I know you're all really eager to help (right?) so here's what I need... Feats! Specifically, the text from Fading Suns d20 for the following feats: Parry, Patron, Retainer... those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Oh, and if anyone can write up the stats for the vehicles: Ornithopter, carry-all, heighliner, sand-scout... or can think of any others, I'll give you a design credit in the d20 DUNE book. Thanks in advance.
Jedi Steve-OP.S. See you all at Comic-Con 2005!
-Talmeth
I'll let you all know how the gaming/convention goes.
Jedi Steve-OI'll be playtesting the rules here with my group (in AZ) and I'm about half-way through editing the copy. I've set all the fonts to a generic Arial (or Arial Black) to make it easier to print (and read). I've gone over all the page breaks and yadda yadda ya... the whole thing looks much cleaner now. I'll be putting it into a PDF form soon, then adding graphics and then another round of printing and posting the PDF on a website (address to be named later)...
Just want to say thanks to all of you who've supported me in this insane project (but especially ArtaXerxes, Boz Shulun, graysider, and of course, Talmeth).
Jedi Steve-OLike reading your name in the sleeve-notes of your favourite band's new album!
Completely, man ^_^
ALSO some new stuff in my life has forced my family to move, and at the same time I have decided to move out (I'm 18 I need to be a man) BUT I will still want my printed copy :P and I'll come back to you guys as I can, please don't think I've left you ^_^, also I've made a yahoo group for my current Star Wars d20 group that you guys can join and contribute to (we are gonna have online NPC's played by people other than me, the GM to make it unique awsome and add some flare) if your interested just PM ^_^
I have also included the Poison rules that were excised from the original D20 modern Rulebook. Given my campaigns focus on assassins they were a splendid find.
I am continuing to update my Dune 'RULBUK' and post regular updates on the site in my sig. Most recently I have dispensed with the Brawl Rules from d20 Modern which where bascially incompatible with my melee heavy vision of Dune. Whilst non-lethal damage is never tallied - the optimal path for defeating villains was obviously tilting towards Improved Brawl as the Holtzman shield denied the AoO for being unarmed. As you can both finesse and power attack with the Unarmed Strike, massive damage saves would become all too common. Given that even a succesful Massive Damage Save (versus non lethal damage) dazes you for a round. Whereas a succesful massive damagae save versus lethal has no effect, This stand in stark contrast to the desired 'Rapier and Kindjal' or even 'Crysknife' swordmaster paths I saw as essential to the heart of the game. All the brawl feats have been rolled into the Combat Martial Arts feats and the damage escalation to d6 and d8 removed. The Defensive Martial Arts tree remains the exclusive province of the Bene Gesserit Trained.
I have also included the Poison rules that were excised from the original D20 modern Rulebook. Given my campaigns focus on assassins they were a splendid find.
Sounds like a couple of interesting twists. I'd like to talk more with you about the Brawl/Martial Arts feats, as it sounds like streamlining them would certainly aid the cinematic flavor of the game.
I like the idea of the Defensive Martial Arts tree being exclusive to Prana-Bindu training.
Have you checked out the Poison/Drug rules from D&D's Book of Vile Darkness? It's got some fun stuff in there....
Jedi Steve-OI was asking myself if it's still possible that you add me to the list for the pdf
btw, what's the status of this project?
...is it still possible that you add me to the list for the pdf?
btw, what's the status of this project?
Well, the first draft is finished, but needs some work. I'm currently editing (3/4 done) the 2nd draft and additions/modifications include the adding of a "Scientist" class, streamlining the feats and skills, adding vehicle stats, poison stats and an appendix of planets.
Jedi Steve-OGURPS Dune
Sean Ware
Written: Chicago, Illinois. August, 1993
Converted to HTML: Chicago, Illinois. October 1995
Last Modified: March 11th, 1997
Other GURPS campaigns are also converted to HTML.
This is a preliminary draft of descriptions and rules alterations for a GURPS Space campaign balsed on the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert. It incorporates elements from GURPS Cyberpunk, GURPS Martial Arts,GURPS Martial Arts Adventures and GURPS Vehicles (1st Edition).
It assumes that most of the action will take place on Arrakis, shortly before or during the actions of the first two novels: Dune and Dune Messiah. Further alterations and expansions can be developed to cover other areas of the Dune universe.
General Information
Campaign Style
The original ’seed’ for this campaign was for the PC’s to be a group of Fremen, or a smuggling orgainization operating on Arrakis. Starting Point cost for such a campaign would be around 100-200 points.
Other possibilities include:
Minor House
The PC’s consist of the key players of a Minor House, starting point level: 100-300 points.
Great House
The PC’s consist of the key players of Great House (Atreides, Harkonnen, Corrino, etc.), starting point level: 200-400+ (most of it in political connections and status).
Mercenaries
A band of mercenaries for hire, or members of any of the standing armed forces of a House Major or Minor. Starting Point level: 100-300 points.
Thanx, Allekihl
Well, the first draft is finished, but needs some work. I'm currently editing (3/4 done) the 2nd draft and additions/modifications include the adding of a "Scientist" class, streamlining the feats and skills, adding vehicle stats, poison stats and an appendix of planets.
Glad to hear it!
Hope your move went well & you are finding Arizona a bit better than you thought it'd be.
Sounds like you're really chugging on through this mammoth project of yours!
I cannot wait to see the finished product. I'm currently reading the first novel for the first time! :embarrass
I figure, I liked the Movie, Loved the Sci-Fi Movies (both of them) so why the heck am I not reading these??
Herbert is not the easiest of authors to get into, but this is not as bad as some series (Wheel of Time)....
Patrick~
Massive Feat update - almost all culled from the the various SRDs., but tweaked to fit with the Massive Damage Rules, and pre-requisites changed (i.e. Improved Feint, Nerve Pinch). The addition of extra combat feats - and feats specifically linked to the Corrida Escuda (shielded bullfighting)
Added the definition of a few unique skills, e.g. Armaments (Dune Demolitions variant)
Detailed my special Critical Rules (completly de-emphasizing STR bonuses, i.e. only dice are ever multiplied - never bonuses) and Armour detailed more succintly. Slow Pellet Stunner finally detailed.
All available in the link in my sig.
Dune Feats; as per Modern SRD except with the following updates and additions.
Action Boost
Advanced Combat Martial Arts
Arterial Strike
Assassin's Code
Assassin's Handbook
Breath of Life
Combat Martial Arts
Combat Throw
Deadly Precision
Defensive Martial Arts
Diplomatic Immunity
Flick of the Wrist
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Greater Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Speecialisation
Heroic Spirit
Improved Combat Martial Arts
Improved Combat Reflexes
Improved Combat Throw
Improved Feint
Improved Knockout Strike
Inner Voices
Jack-of-All-Trades
Knockout Strike
Mentat Awareness
Mentat Awareness, Greater
Minutiae Observation
Nerve Pinch
Noble Blood
Oathbound
Pharmacopoeia
Poison Resistance (was Ultra Immune System)
Prana-Bindu Suspension
Prana-Bindu Mastery
Profile
Prone Attack
Pyretic Conscience (Imperial Medical Conditioning)
Reckless Offence
Sidestep Charge [Corrida Escuda]
Spy Network,
Stand Still [Corrida Escuda]
Superior Expertise
Truthtrance
Two Weapon Defence
Two Weapon Rend
Unbalance Opponent
Vital Strike
Voice
Voice, Great
Signature Feats, Ginaz Academy Bonus Feats - DM’s discretion required for the following
Cloak Dance [Serpentina – Corrida Escuda]
Devastating Critical
Hand of God [Shane Padron’s Style – MSRD Arcana feat ‘Power Critical’]
Knockdown
Power Critical [Nexiis’ Style]
Iajitsu [Anselm Ginaz’s Style]
Zen in the Art of Archery [Raphaen’s Style]
Thanks!
MAUD'IP!!!
edchuk
Thanks!
Glad to hear your version is going well. I was going over the list and it looks great. I'd like the info and/or source on the following feats:
- Assassin's Code
- Assassin's Handbook
- Breath of Life
- Deadly Precision
- Inner Voices
- Mentat Awareness
- Mentat Awareness, Greater
- Minutiae Observation
- Noble Blood
- Pharmacopoeia
- Prana-Bindu Suspension
- Prana-Bindu Mastery
- Profile
- Pyretic Conscience (Imperial Medical Conditioning)
- Reckless Offence
- Spy Network
- Stand Still [Corrida Escuda]
- Truthtrance
- Two Weapon Rend
- Vital Strike
- Voice
- Voice, Great
Thanks in advance. You can PM me or email me.
Jedi Steve-OHey everyone. I was just reading bits and pieces of this amazing thread and am now quite intruiged by the whole thing. I would absolutely love a PDF version!
Thanks!
MAUD'IP!!!
Sorry, Silverwing. No PDF for you. It's spelled "Muad'Dib." The Prophet hates misspellings.
Jedi Steve-OP.S. Just kidding.You're on the list.
Wanted to request my name be put on the aforementioned list - and offer my services as a proofreader and editor.
Hell, it is what I do for a living, so I can do if you need it.
[email]Abu_Zajir@hotmail.com[/email]
I have a more up to date PDF of the RULBUK, email me with [DUNE] in the title.
dagmar.fraser(at)gmail.com
I have seen some previews of Steve's version and it is an epic undertaking, a full, professional take on the Duniverse. It also includes rules for the many eras of play.
Steve; In other news I got hold of The Road to Dune which has omitted chapters from Dune and Dune Messiah. There is a few useful tidbits, including a description of travel on the Guild Heighliners, more vehicle types, and some detailing on personal weapons.
artaxerxes
"Once more the drama begins." -- The Emperor Paul Muad'dib on his ascension to the Lion Throne
DUNE RULBUK
Given that we see very little of their culture in the books the GM has a tabula rasa to project their plots onto. Herbert himself changes our perception through-out the series, from charicatured Godless Butlerian heretics (who are rumoured to be grey skinned midgets with sharp teeth!), to the religious fanatics of the last three books. Their signature trait seems to be elaborate plotting, which allows the quarry one chance to escape.
To imagine the Tleilax aesthetic I consider the following
I stumbled across a deity "Xolotl" in "The History of the DeVil". Legend has Quetzalcoatl and his twin brother Xolotl, descending into hell and retrieving human bones. By dripping Quetzacoatl's blood onto the bones they were able to effect human resurrection. This lept from the page. The etymology of "Tleilax" reeks of the same contructions that we see in pre-Columbian word sounds.
Ghola comes from ghoul ;
1786, in Beckford's "Vathek," from Arabic. 'ghul', an evil spirit that robs
graves and feeds on corpses, from 'ghala' "he seized
They also train Hayt as a Zen-sufi.
So in my campaign I have a combination of an mystic Aztec-Arabic aesthetic. Not that the players will actually ever encounter the Tleilax homeworld. However it is useful to imagine.
There is an interesting discussion about the origins of the Tleilaxu and their Axolotl tanks (any many other elements of Dune) here...
Dune - Stars and Planets
In any event Steve's full rulebook does/will cover all the various factions, mine merely gives a d20 conversion and the background suitable for a game set in 10,165 (though i make no reference to the new prequels)
I don't know who the Through Priestess is alas, is she from the B. Herbert & K.J. Anderson books?
Simon
Minutiae Observation
Prerequisite Prana-Bindu Suspension, Sense Motive 4 Ranks
Benefit The Prana-Bindu adept’s self-awareness and control gives deep insight into the lack of such control in others. The centred being is able to read the intent of an individual in a fashion much more swiftly than normally allowed by Sense Motive, which takes a minute. Minutiae Observation allows the Sense Motive skill to be employed at the end of a single round of scrutiny. Hunch, and Detect Secret Messages remain unaltered whilst 'Discern Enchantment' is now used to detect the influence of drugs, or other sources of mental influence i.e. Bene Tleilax control.
Special You may take 20 with Sense Motive if you use a full minute.
Truthtrance
Prerequisite Minutiae Observation, Sense Motive +8 Ranks, Wisdom 18*
Benefit Given a full minute to read an individual (DC 25 Sense Motive). You may make a DC 25 Sense Motive Check to determine the individual’s belief about its answers to any ensuing questions. A wary target may attempt to substitute their Bluff check as the DC if they are aware of the scrutiny, or during questioning. This Bluffing will often result in a lower DC and so Bene Gesserit practitioners provoke this response from interviewed individuals.
Special May be learned with a Wisdom of lower than 18, but only used with WIS affecting drugs. You may take 10 on a recording of an interview, but not 20.
Voice
Using highly trained vocal cords, knowledge of primitive structures in the human auditory system and a stunning insight into a given individual's psyche the Voice wielder may implant a suggestion.
Prerequisite Prana-Bindu Suspension, Minutiae Observation, Perform (Sing) 4 ranks
Benefit The first step requires a successful Minutiae Observation check (DC Bluff check for actively hostile individuals, or DC 20 for those unaware). Actively aggressive individuals often make the DC easier by betraying themselves. Bene Gesserit often provoke a crisis in order to read individuals. Dr Yeuh demonstrates the high default DC when he chooses not to Bluff but remain as close as possible to the truth.
The observation determines the exact pitch of voice required for that individual. A Perform (Sing) versus a base difficulty of 15; modified by target wariness, success of the Minutiae Observation and the situation (quiet and anechoic environments are best) is required to insinuate the suggestion (limited to a sentence or two).
The target individual can still negate the suggestion with a Will Save versus DC 10 + Ranks in Perform (Sing) + Charisma bonus.
The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the suggestion. [When Jessica suggests there is "no need to fight over me" - this is a classic example - she doesn't explicitly demand violence.]
The suggested course of activity can continue for up to 1 minute per Rank in Perform (Sing). If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the effect ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do. You can instead specify conditions that will trigger a special activity during the duration. If the condition is not met before the Voice’s duration expires, the activity is not performed.
A very reasonable suggestion causes the will save to be made with a penalty (such as –1 or –2).
Special Hypno-ligature. Requires much longer observation of the individual, over a period of days, and implicit trust from the victim. May implant a post-hypnotic suggestion e.g. 'Uroshnor', which will cause the individual to be dazed (for example) upon hearing the trigger phrase after an unlimited period of time.
Repeated Voice attempts against those who have resisted your suggestion suffer a DC increase of 5 for each failed use of the
Voice that day.
Victims of the Voice are normally unaware of the attempted attempt at compulsion.
Simon
As you guess, my conversion only has specific rules for the factions present before the rise of Muad'dib. Hell I don't even have Fremen. However the Fishspeakers are merely a military organisation unique only by dint of being entirely female.
My Swordmaster starting occupation would adequately cover them. If you have a look at my d20 Conversion your 'starting occupation' is Swordmaster, Mentat, Assassin, Bene Gesserit... and then you would use modified versions of the Strong, Fast et cetera classes to build your vision of a Fish Speaker. Instead of aiming for a Fishspeaker advanced class. This gives my system extreme flexibility - and allows me to be lazy in creating my RULBUK as the myriad factions do not need to be given a unique class.
Simon
BTW good job to you all When all system will be done all of you must compare things and keep only the best of both games. I'm sure it will be the best game and I'm also sure that Wizard will consider about publishing it has they already own the right of the game.
Glad you appreciate them!
I am building my own game with the D20 system. One to be published tho. Has I am creating the whole world and thing like that, I just have to get a lawyer to read to me the licencing thing and all the other stuff I need to know. I'll be on my way to build a good D20 RPG with a good flavor. I'm working on that game for now 5 years (in a home made system with D12) but was too darn complicated so I'm converting the rules to D20.
Simon
Jedi Steve-OI go with the flow ... if they made it like that what can we do ? Sad you have a weasle to sniff around you now.
Simon
Also, the RULBUK does have some very interesting information within. I'll take a look at it next chance I get.
---
[email]Abu_Zajir@hotmail.com[/email]
We're sorry. This signature is currently unavailable. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Can I just say that I'm still waiting for my "special title and avatar" from February!? Ridiculous. These boards are crazy what they update... So the search function works now? Oh... guess we're waiting on that one, too.Sigh... I feel better. Thanks for letting me rant.
Jedi Steve-OHas anyone else been watching HBOs Rome? I feel I the sort of dramatic civil war presented in that would be ideal to adapt to a Dune Campaign. I am sure it would be easy to insert 400 years of Republic into the timeline somewhere.
I feel that a conflict which encompassed the Imperium would offer many dramatic possibilities beyond those afforded by the War of Assassins I am currently running.
What sort of campaign are you all imagining for your Dune? I know Steve-O has mentioned his Fremen-centric campaign. I am considering my follow up campaign to fall in the era of the Fall of the god Emperor, Scattering and eventually Honoured Matres with the descendants of the current PCs.
I go missing for a little while, and the board sparks some semblance of life >_< .... Anyway... hey Steve-O, whats going on?.... what are is going on with d20une? Anyway... I just wanted to know whats going on with the work of it and everything... I'll check again tommarrow
Long live the fighters!
I've always wanted to play on the Dune universe and the d20 Future made it possible.
I'm dying to see some more 'hands-on' material, is there a doc or pdf that I could download? This would help to make suggestions, comments, etc...
I can send you a more recent PDF version - i no longer have access to my academic website.
__________________
"Once more the drama begins."
--The Emperor Paul Muad'dib on his ascension to the Lion Throne
d20 DUNE RULBUK
I think I requested this a loong while back & unfortunately, my email has since changed.
Slingbld >at< yahoo >dot< com
Thanks again!!!!
Patrick~
Gah I haven't posted in this in ages.
I can't remember if I put my name down for the Pdf but you know what, sign me up as well.
[email]ph34r_my_reality@hotmail.com[/email]
By the way are there any loose ends we're still trying to fix up?
On another point has anyone seen Monte Cook's Iron Kingdoms. Personally I love his work (anything by him in general really) but what I was curious about was if anyone else saw potential for the "Token's" Mechanic in Dune d20. Dune is a heavily martial focused world after all with little to no "supernatural" skills. No magic, force powers etc. The Token mechanic could feasibly fill such a gap.
For those who haven't seen it, essentially the system allows you to acquire "tokens" for continued actions against a single opponent, which may then be spent on "special attacks". In the system, the Archer for example may gain tokens by spending time aiming upon his foe, a weaponmaster gains tokens for every time he hits a foe with his chosen weapon. Many of the feats also use tokens such as Dodge - granting you extra evasive abilities the more you succeed in dodging an opponent.
THen there's also Mastery Feats which I personally love.
Hehe don't kill me for suggesting ideas this late :P but I saw it and went "Oooooooh that would be something interesting to throw into a Dune d20 game."
Back in the fray
-Arx-
Bi-la kaifa reverend!
[email=ronaldo@ronaldo.com]ronaldo@ronaldo.com[/email]
Thanks in advance.
Is any actual progress being made? We've been seeing a lot of people jump on the wagon, and that's about all.
My RULBUK is essentially feature locked. I have 40 days to complete my campaign before I disappear from my gaming group. I am off snowboarding for the next 5 months, and likely shan't return even after that. The website in my sig is no longer updated... I would be delighted if someone could host the current version so i don't have to respond directly to this thread.
If anyone wants to pick up my torch feel free. Just mention myself and my gaming group in any derivative work. I will forward all my material to you, which includes some difficult to obtain material. My D20 Modern adaption is, however, quite idiosyncratic to my groups play style - so i don't know how useful/balanced it will be to anyone else...
At the very least, thanks to all the contributors to this thread who encouraged me to polish and share what I had made.
If anyone wants to pick up my torch feel free. Just mention myself and my gaming group in any derivative work. I will forward all my material to you, which includes some difficult to obtain material. My D20 Modern adaption is, however, quite idiosyncratic to my groups play style - so i don't know how useful/balanced it will be to anyone else...
Shoot me what you got, i can host all the info & get it into a PDF format. I have about 480 megs of server space not doing anything
I'm working on a general D20/D20M site to host a few things I've done & promised other's I'd host, like my Nightbane D20 & a GI Joe D20 conversion I like (but did not write
). My email is slingbld1619 at yahoo dot com.
Thanks fer listening!!
Patrick~
EDIT NOTE: My email is correct now
Sweet, Dune D20, I gotta get in on this. [email]tthorson1@hotmail.com[/email]
There is a copy in my sig. I will send you the most recent PDF though.
Thanks all for your interest.
Slingbld check your private messages.
http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~dsf/rpg/dune/
[EDIT] In fact it might be time for a new thread given mine is available for release... i just need a website.
I might just make a torrent of all my material? As there are some large 100 meg+ pdfs included. Interested?
I might just make a torrent of all my material? As there are some large 100 meg+ pdfs included. Interested?
Certainly. Do you have a link?
many thanks to Jedi Steve-O and the rest for all the hard work to date
Jedi Steve-OVariant #1
Every weapon is given a speed ranking, to represent the velocity at which it is propelled.
A rifle for instance might have a speed ranking of -20 while a dagger would be +0
Shields have an activation DC, normally 15 or greater this represents the lowest speed projectile it can stop. Shields also give a +2 bonus to reflex saves for flamethrowers, and inhaled poisons as that brief moment in which the particles are slowed by the shield could save you life, for example, the Baron escaping from the poison in Leto’s false tooth.
To strike an opponent using a shield the following conditions must be met:
1)The attacker must hit the opponent as per the normal combat rules
2)A second roll is made to confirm shield penetration
1d20+ attacker’s dex modifier + weapon speed ranking >= shield DC + opponents dex modifier
Related feats:
Improved feint
As described in PHB
Strike Sinister
Prerequisites: BAB +4, improved feint,
Benefit: once per round when an opponent has lost its dexterity bonus to AC towards you, you may make an attack with a melee weapon that bypasses the shield activation roll.
Shield fighting
Prerequisites: BAB +4
Benefit: you receive a +2 bonus on shield activation rolls additionally you receive a +2 bonus to your shields activation DC
Improved Shield fighting
Prerequisites: BAB +8, Shield fighting
Benefit: you receive a +4 bonus on shield activation rolls; additionally you receive a +4 bonus to your shields activation DC
Despite the fact this system does not scale with level it should maintain balance, assuming the DM (dune master?) throws NPC opponents of equal skill against his/her players, the shields will maintain a fairly constant penetration rate of 25%(using a dagger) for both sides, just as balanced AC should increases in such a way that attacks are successful about 50% of the time, regardless of what level you are playing at (assuming levels are equal between opponents). In cases where levels are significantly different, I hold that even a professional would still have trouble overcoming an opponent’s shield. Even if that opponent was relatively unskilled, but to represent experience playing a significant roll I added the Shield fighting feats that give the higher level opponent a 10% to 20%(+2,+4) greater chance of bypassing shields.
Variant #2 (much simpler)
Shield grant temporary hit point that regenerates at some given rate per round. When they run out it symbolizes that you finally ran out of luck and someone got through the shield
Remember HP loss does not always mean injury, HP are a combination of vitality and stamina. To use a sci-fi example, two Jedi locked in combat are constantly diminishing each others HP, it may not be until one combatant is reduced to 0 hp that anyone could tell who was wining, which might now take the shape of one Jedi losing a head for instance.
Thank you,
Variant #1
Every weapon is given a speed ranking, to represent the velocity at which it is propelled.
A rifle for instance might have a speed ranking of -20 while a dagger would be +0
Shields have an activation DC, normally 15 or greater this represents the lowest speed projectile it can stop. Shields also give a +2 bonus to reflex saves for flamethrowers, and inhaled poisons as that brief moment in which the particles are slowed by the shield could save you life, for example, the Baron escaping from the poison in Leto’s false tooth.
To strike an opponent using a shield the following conditions must be met:
1)The attacker must hit the opponent as per the normal combat rules
2)A second roll is made to confirm shield penetration
1d20+ attacker’s dex modifier + weapon speed ranking >= shield DC + opponents dex modifier
Related feats:
Improved feint
As described in PHB
Strike Sinister
Prerequisites: BAB +4, improved feint,
Benefit: once per round when an opponent has lost its dexterity bonus to AC towards you, you may make an attack with a melee weapon that bypasses the shield activation roll.
Good work. Flavourful.
Obvious comments; adding a second dice (Shield Penetration) roll will slow and complicate combat. Especially given that yet another contested roll, with the use of the Improved Feint (bluff vs sense motive) has also been added. It makes sense if we try to use existing D&D rules for the Shield Penetration but a more elegant system can be found.
Second point, depending on your view of shield combat; I suggest finesse should be key. Your system, as presented, would not discourage Strength based swordmasters. Whislt that may be true in D&D that strength allows you to hack through armour, or swing faster, this is not useful against a Holztmann Shield.
Failing a literal sending of the pdf, a link to an updated version, should one come available, would be appreciated.
Anyhoo the current one is sent godentag.
is this thread still alive?
i am still interested in this dune rpg, although it seems to become quite calm here.
can anyone with an actual version of the pdf mail at [email]daan666@uni.de[/email]
and where can you find the "jedi steve-o edition"? i've searched for awhile but nothing
thanks for mailing ;)
I will send out my (mostly) final PDF of my D20 Modern DuneRPG to any that request it.
I am sure Jedi Steve-O will chime in at some point.
Can be found in my sig.
Link http://sg.geocities.com/swiftblades_99/d20dune.pdf
Just adding a bump to this thread to let you know that I'm still alive, but have taken a bit of a break from d20 Dune. I'm still involved in the d20 world, but mostly playing pulp-style games, Mutants & masterminds, and fiddling with a Urban Arcana world.
I'll try to post the d20 Dune rules (Jedi Steve-O edition) when I can, but I don't really have a website to do so on. I suppose I can post them here, one class/section at a time, but that could take a while to plug in. Suggestions?
Jedi Steve-OHello all,
I'll try to post the d20 Dune rules (Jedi Steve-O edition) when I can, but I don't really have a website to do so on. I suppose I can post them here, one class/section at a time, but that could take a while to plug in. Suggestions?
Post it on the d20 Dune Yahoo site and make it public i.e. no moderated membership.
Hello all,
I'll try to post the d20 Dune rules (Jedi Steve-O edition) when I can, but I don't really have a website to do so on. I suppose I can post them here, one class/section at a time, but that could take a while to plug in. Suggestions?
I can host it on my website for you, if you want to.
I can host it on my website for you, if you want to.
Coolio.
Give me an address and i'll send the most recent versions of what i have.
Jedi Steve-OHas anyone seen the DVD release of the "long version" of David Lynch's 1984 DUNE yet? It's next on my Netflix.com list. Can't wait -- hopefully, it'll get me pumped for getting back into designing on d20 Dune!
It has a few extra scenes, and an embarrasing monologue at the beginning read in what I though was a completely in-appropriate cowboy voice, that actually turned out to be Frank Herbert himself. During the intro they display storyboards which are quite funny too.
Worth it for any completist
It has a few extra scenes, and an embarrasing monologue at the beginning read in what I though was a completely in-appropriate cowboy voice, that actually turned out to be Frank Herbert himself. During the intro they display storyboards which are quite funny too.
Worth it for any completist
I have seen the "extended version" several times on TV and found it to be quite superior to the theatrical release. I have been very upset for years that the extended version was never released for sale. I'm glad that's being fixed.
Jedi Steve-O Jedi Steve-OAnyone interested in hosting a PDF version of d20 DUNE on their website? It's nearly finished and I'm debating just posting the damn thing to get it out in the public domain.
Hi
I'm going to host the DUNE - RULBUK, and I can certainly host your conversion as well. I just got to get rid of some annoying things at work...
Send me a PM about it.
Regards to all
Sorry to be a Johnny-come-lately, but Jedi, might I be so bold as to ask for a copy of your labor of love?
[email]fatangrycat@gmail.com[/email]
So, when do we get our grubby little mitts on the pdf?
I believe I'll be able to do it by this Saturday, then I'll post the link here.
I'm getting a basic site together to be used as a depository of online fan creations.
I'd love to mirror your stuff on it
I believe I'll be able to do it by this Saturday, then I'll post the link here.
The site is up. It's hosting Artaxerxes RUNE RULBUK.
If anyone else wants to have his or her DUNE RPG online, I'll provide the space. Just PM me here or by the e-mail on the site.
Here's the link:
DUNE Page
Ya hya chouhada!
Many thanks.
Also, for those of you who are as geeky as I am, but who can actually afford it... try this link: DUNE Fremen contact lenses.
Cool.
Jedi Steve-OOkay, gang. Here's the deal. A friend of mine says he can turn my elaborate Word document (250+ pages) into a PDF with his new-fangled Adobe Acrobat,but... he keeps putting me off. Does anyone know how to do this with Acrobat 6.0?
Select Word to print your document. Then, instead of your current printer, select "Adobe Distiller" (it should have been registered during your installation of Adobe Acrobat). It will then generate the PDF file.
If you have any problem with this, let me know and I'll do it for you. I'm very eager to see what you've done in your conversion.
And, also, I can host it for you as I'm hosting Artaxerxes Dune Rulbuk.
Thanks again for hosting.
Steve-O; If you email me your doc I can PDF it from OSX Word without any need for Adobe.
Select Word to print your document. Then, instead of your current printer, select "Adobe Distiller" (it should have been registered during your installation of Adobe Acrobat). It will then generate the PDF file.
Yeah. I tried that, too. I've done it before for the first "rough" draft of the game, but I've made significant changes to the game since then, so I'd like to try again.
If you email me your doc I can PDF it from OSX Word without any need for Adobe.
Neat-o! I'll try to get it to a point in the next week or so that I can publish it. Sheesh. You'd think I'd be done with the damn thing already.
Again, my apologies in advance, I'm not really this @n@l-retentive (just when it comes to gaming stuff), really. So, as soon as I can, I'd like to put it up on a website. Amarok, that's very generous of you to offer, and I'll take you up on it when it's ready. Naturally, I'd like to put the same caveat on it: Please, everyone who uses it, reads it, or disassembles it, please send me some constructive criticism.
Thanks in advance to everyone for waiting so long for this labor of love to be just right.
Jedi Steve-OSo... anyone? Anyone?
Bueller?
Jedi Steve-ODoes anyone know if the d20 Spelljammer rules (in Polyhedron/Dungeon) were examined for use in a d20 Dune system as potential rules for the Folding Space of the Spacing Guild Navigators?
I ran a long Spelljammer campaign back in the day and they are not suitable! They use certain pseudo-scientific ideas form the 1700s - i.e. the phlogiston.
I am currently reading the Game of Thrones sourcebook - which seems to have some ideas I hope to steal. Especially the variant rule about rolling your Defence (I think in the DMG already but re-reading it in Game of Thrones it recurred to me) as I had issues in my game of near unbeatable defences. I think this is common to modern where the Defence Bonus can often outstrip attack bonuses.
I am currently reading the Game of Thrones sourcebook - which seems to have some ideas I hope to steal. Especially the variant rule about rolling your Defence (I think in the DMG already but re-reading it in Game of Thrones it recurred to me) as I had issues in my game of near unbeatable defences. I think this is common to modern where the Defence Bonus can often outstrip attack bonuses.
I'm including the Parry feat from d20 Fading Suns, which allows you to roll d20 + BAB + Dex vs. attack roll to deflect a solid hit. Sounds much the same.
Along with some other variant/homebrew (read: stolen) rules for Loyalty, I'm including a couple of the feats from d20 Spelljammer and that's about it. I plan to leave the Fold-Space mechanics as a big ol' GM Plot Device.
In other news, the gear is finalized, advanced classes are finalized, feats are pretty close to finalized, skills are finalized, and basic classes are finalized. I'm polishing up the combat and Prana/Bindu chapters, and then working on the Gamemastering section. When this thing is done, it's going to be as all inclusive as Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved! Whew...
At this point, I'm just trying to make sure I didn't exclude anything. Any thoughts on including rules for cybernetics? I've got them in now, but I'm having second thoughts. I know the Tleilaxu were heavy into body mods but I don't know how mechanical they got... Is this too much in the realm of the Butlerian Proscriptions?
Talk to you soon...
Jedi Steve-OI would love to see your cybernetics rules - you must therefore include them!
My season in France is just about to end - and I will likely be running further sessions of my campaign when I return to Scotland. So I will likely be updating my rulebook.
Considering the political nature of the Dune Universe and how important "who you know" can be, it would be an interesting (and not too difficult) rule to incorporate. Also considering the focus on Houses and nobility it would give players interested in playing a scion of a house the ingame opportunity to impact upon its actions through the use of Influence and control. It's almost TOO easy to convert the rules and feats for Influence and house status over to a Dune game. The King becomes the Emperor, the Royal family the Emperor's family. And Great and Minor Houses would work exactly as they are.
Another rule to consider importing is the Wealth system they use. Dune is a universe where money isn't that big of an issue unless you are a member of the lower classes or a House Exile. It makes sense that a member of a Great or Minor House would have the financial backing to theoretically own whatever they need or at least acquire whatever they need given time. And the Level Adjustment system they propose for immensely powerful characters (in terms of wealth and social influence) is a nice balancing factor for a group composed of people of different social stratas.
By using both these systems you'd effectively be hitting the nail on the head when it comes to adding the flavour of politics is Dune. Being "x" level is all well and good but being 2nd cousin to the Emperor of the Known Universe and having Influence over him is even better.
What's even better is that the rules are practically perfect as written. The only tweaking needed is adding and Influence per level part to any classes you have designed. Everything else - rules text, associated feats etc are all there already.
And if you want to look at another viable idea from A Game of Thrones - consider the HP system they use for their classes and maybe even the Shock rules. Dune is a gritty universe. It's not a universe where the heroes defeat hordes of enemies with shiny glowing lightsaber or blasters. It's a world where the protagonists often die through poison, a knife to the throat, a blade to the chest or a kick to the neck. Dying should be a very real prospect in a Dune setting, and players should feel that sometimes its better to run away in the face of danger then fight as is the case in standard D&d. There's a nice
Maybe it's just me but if there ever was a fantasy equivalent to the flavour and feel of Dune - The Game of Thrones rule book is it. It has the grit, the politics, the manipulation and danger that I loved about Dune books. Even the classes are practically perfect for Dune.
Just some thoughts from someone who hasn't been around much lately
-Arx-
...Maybe it's just me but if there ever was a fantasy equivalent to the flavour and feel of Dune - The Game of Thrones rule book is it. It has the grit, the politics, the manipulation and danger that I loved about Dune books. Even the classes are practically perfect for Dune.
Just some thoughts from someone who hasn't been around much lately
-Arx-
Sounds great. Now give me the Game of Thrones rulebook already! I'm trying to find it... Suggestions?
Jedi Steve-OI won't go into too much detail, but I wrote the campaign for as general of an audience as possible with the intention of playing it with a group of friends of mine that had no experience with Dune other than the movies. Unfortunately, the group isn't able to convene this year, and I'd hate to waste a (possibly) good campaign setting. If anyone is interested in a copy of the campaign setting, let post your interest (or not!) here and I'll post a copy when it's finished. I have the campaign introduction mostly written, and I just need to start working on some sort of general map of the area. If people have any suggestions, I'm welcome to those too. If there isn't any interest in a campaign setting, by all means say so, so I don't waste my time
Sounds great. Now give me the Game of Thrones rulebook already! I'm trying to find it... Suggestions?
Try www.lonslair.com
they offer it at 20% off cover price.
Hope that helps ya out some!
Patrick~
I for one would like to see what you have.
Okay, okay, already. It's up.
Now, before you go rip it to shreds...
Yes, there's stuff missing.
Yes, there's stuff that doesn't fit.
Yes, it's a rough draft.
That being said, here ya go: d20 DUNE: A Dream of Rain Roleplaying Game. Look for the PDF posted today (April 17, 2006).
You're welcome.
Jedi Steve-OP.S. If you download it or look at it, you're obligated to tell me what you think of it -- love it or hate it, what's good and what ain't -- and for Fnord's sake, play it!
One question though: Why not use Modern's 10 level system and Basic Class system, keeping the Armsman, Knave, etc. as Advanced Classes?
[edit]Also, what does the feat Swift Strike do, especially when compared to spring attack? It seems they do similar things but with Swift Strike you can only move half your speed.[/edit]
Is there a way I can become one?
From what I've seen of it so far, it appears to be a complete mix of the best features of d20 SW, Modern and D&D. Looks very nice and love the history - you've obviously scoured all six books and drawn from the prequels.
One question though: Why not use Modern's 10 level system and Basic Class system, keeping the Armsman, Knave, etc. as Advanced Classes?
[edit]Also, what does the feat Swift Strike do, especially when compared to spring attack? It seems they do similar things but with Swift Strike you can only move half your speed.[/edit]
Yes, trismagestus, I tried to take the best and leave the rest, as it were.
Answer: I originally conceived this game as a d20 Modern book, that is, basic classes from Modern and then just design new Advanced Classes, etc. But as it developed, I felt the game warranted its own base classes to give the right flavor.
Answer: The Swift Strike feat was originally designed to not have the BAB +4 prerequisite. Usable earlier, but not as effective as Spring Attack.
Good spotting.
Anyone else?
Jedi Steve-OI am very interested in seeing how things look, but link states that I am not a member.
Is there a way I can become one?
Apologies! For the time being--until the file gets hosted and posted--the only way for everyone to access it is through that Yahoo! page. That's the bad news. The good news is that it's free to join, and only a slight pain in the arse.
Jedi Steve-OEvery time it asks me for a profile name and then to verify.... then kicks me to my email page.
I'm not quite sure what I am doing wrong.
I tried 4 times to join the yahoo group.
Every time it asks me for a profile name and then to verify.... then kicks me to my email page.
I'm not quite sure what I am doing wrong.
Stoopid Yahoo... sorry 'bout that.
Jedi Steve-OAnd it's kinda amusing to find references to Robert Aryn and the Iron throne still in there - just reminds me it's a changing work.
Also, are you planning on writing up stuff from the latter books? Such as Fish Speakers and Honored Matres classes, Descendent of Siona template, Futar race, etc. (apologies if some of these are already included and I missed them; it's a lot to get through in one sitting
)Have been looking closer, and was planning on converting it to a more d20 Modern and d20 Future rules based version, but after reading through it more thoroughly, I think I'll be running this one just as it is :D very well done, once more.
And it's kinda amusing to find references to Robert Aryn and the Iron throne still in there - just reminds me it's a changing work.
Yeah, like I said, it's still a rough draft. There are spots of text that are just place-holders, really.
Glad to hear you liked it enough to use as is. Let me know how the playing goes.
Also, are you planning on writing up stuff from the latter books? Such as Fish Speakers and Honored Matres classes, Descendent of Siona template, Futar race, etc. (apologies if some of these are already included and I missed them; it's a lot to get through in one sitting
Good questions! Yes, I'm definitely planning on adding Advanced/Prestige classes such as Fish Speakers, Honored Matres. But the Descendant of Siona template? Interesting. Hadn't considered it before... but now that you say it, sounds good. And the Futar race (as well as the Bene Tleilax) will be added!
Jedi Steve-OAm writing a campaign for it right now =)
Good draft, let me know if you want some proofreading - I see some sections that could use it.
Mentat - 13th level before Mentat Projection. Yikes. How did you land on this?
For the 8 years of Ginaz school - what's the assumption on level achieved upon graduation? (I'm just finishing reading house harkonnen)
oh - and yes, I will be happy to post my campaign module to this thread after I've gotten a bit further with it.
http://www.dune.cyberdark.com.br/
Steve-O, Artaxerxes: if you want me to put your e-mails in the page for receiving feedback, please PM me with the desired e-mail address.
Regards to all
My site is updated with Jedi Steve-O and Artaxerxes works for d20 Dune:
http://www.dune.cyberdark.com.br/
Steve-O, Artaxerxes: if you want me to put your e-mails in the page for receiving feedback, please PM me with the desired e-mail address.
Regards to all
Use this address for feedback - [email]rulbuk@gmail.com[/email]
Just read your rules Steve. Great effort, very impressed with the professional level of your work. You make my attempt look embarrassingly amateur!
You might want to edit the Shield Combat Rules which still have left over elements from the RULBUK on page 107. i.e. DR 50 against high velocity attacks, attack at -4 to bypass shield protection, +2 dodge bonus; which i believe are at odds with your Fading Suns inspired system.
Does anyone know if this material will make it into the SRD? The Shield feats look easily adaptable and some of the others are just too delicious to ignore.
Feats
Acrobatic Strike
Bounding Assault
Rapid Blitz
Brutal Strike
Combat Acrobat
Combat Tactician
Cometary Collision
Cunning Evasion
Defensive Sweep
Fade into Violence
Flay
Hindering Opportunist
Stalwart Defense
Indomitable Soul
Intimidating Strike
Keen-Eared Scout
Leap of the Heavens
Lunging Strike
Master Manipulator
Melee Evasion
Melee Weapon Mastery
Crushing Strike
Driving Attack
Slashing Flurry
Weapon Supremacy
Overwhelming Assault
Robilar's Gambit
Shield Specialization
Active Shield Defense
Agile Shield Fighter
Shield Ward
Short Haft
Steadfast Determination
Telling Blow
Tumbling Feint
Two-Weapon Pounce
Two-Weapon Rend
Vexing Flanker
Adaptable Flanker
Wanderer's Diplomacy
First off, let me say thank you to all of you who've taken the time to either download or read the d20 Dune project I've been working on and give me a little feedback. The response has been overwhelmingly positive, and it's made this incredibly time-consuming project worth every minute.
To that end, I've recently picked up a slew of new books, including (but not limited to) the Player's Handbook II, the Dungeon Master's Handbook II, Monte Cook's Iron Heroes, Mastering Iron Heroes and the D&D Eberron Campaign. With that in mind, I'll be adding to D20une all the good bits (and leaving out what I don't like).
Keeping that in mind, I'm attempting to "balance" out the classes and characters in d20 DUNE. I'm redoing the feat progression levels with no small influence from Iron Heroes and replacing the Starting Occupations with the Iron Hereos' Trait system (again, everyone is human, so this more accurately reflects the concept of "racial" abilities).
Also, I LOVE the concept of skill groups, and so will be changing the classes and skills (once again) to reflect this new system. Don't be afraid -- it's very easy.
Think of this as Version 2.0... Basically, the saving throws will change (now equal to character level), there are three different BAB progressions, and a Base Defense progression (armor grants DR, not Defense bonuses) that will ultimately let the DUNE characters "keep up" with magic-using characters in other systems.
I'm posting all this as an update for two major reasons:
1) I'd like some opinions (as per usual: constructive criticism only, please).
2) I'm looking for anyone who has used the Iron Heroes system and can comment on it--for good or ill. (Weal or Woe?)
Oh, and I need a good way to add Psionics / Weirding Powers. D&D (Psionics) or Star Wars (Force)?
Thanks again. I'll post up the new version when it's ready.
Jedi Steve-OP.S. In the "Hallelujah Department," I now have the ability to create PDFs, so that's one less obstacle out of the way. And oh yeah, the next version will contain a "starter" adventure for level 1 characters. Hooray!
Look forward to a little more thread activity!
Did you never get a board title?
To that end, I've recently picked up a slew of new books...
Sorry I haven't responded in a while. Been pretty busy these days, and I haven't even really had a chance to read over what you've got.
As far as I know, DMG2 and PHB2 are not SRD. I don't know about Iron Heroes, but I wouldn't expect it to be SRD or Open Game Content either. I get a little nervous when you (or anyone on these boards doing projects, for that matter) talk about including non-SRD, copyrighted or "closed game content" material from other sources. I know you (and we all) want d20 Dune to be the best it can be, of course, but aren't you worried at all about getting sued? Please feel free to set me straight on all this.
I also don't think it's a good idea to let yourself get into the habit of changing things every time you get a new book, as new books with good material are coming out all the time. Get too fond of that and suddenly d20 Dune will wind up being a Face Dancer of ever-changing versions.
Not that new versions are bad just because they're new, of course. Playtesting is key,and sometimes new things appear that are just perfect. But, and I say this with a wink and a smile, I think maybe, just maybe, you've got a bit of "Ooooh, shiny!" going on there.
Think of this as Version 2.0... Basically, the saving throws will change (now equal to character level),
I'm not sure I follow here. Base save will equal character level? Are you sure you want to do that?
there are three different BAB progressions,
Supremely cool. I love "middle" progressions. You aren't just Good or Bad at something, there's always middle ground possible.
and a Base Defense progression (armor grants DR, not Defense bonuses) that will ultimately let the DUNE characters "keep up" with magic-using characters in other systems.
I'm liking armor-as-DR and class-based Defense Bonuses more and more as time goes on, to the point of wanting to use them in D&D. Excellent.
I'm posting all this as an update for two major reasons:
1) I'd like some opinions (as per usual: constructive criticism only, please).
2) I'm looking for anyone who has used the Iron Heroes system and can comment on it--for good or ill. (Weal or Woe?)
"1" I can always do, though I get the feeling that I'm woefully uninformed. "2", can't help with, sorry, but as a bit of constructive criticism, I suggest that you examine your desire to use IH material and see whether it might just be fascination with shiny new stuff. If you stick to your guns, that's great, at least you thought it over.
Oh, and I need a good way to add Psionics / Weirding Powers. D&D (Psionics) or Star Wars (Force)?
My first impulse is to say, do a skill-based system more in line with Star Wars but without costing VP. Then I start wondering if perhaps Feats might be a better way to go, given that I don't remember seeing a dazzling array of psychic powers, just a few very important skills -- off the top of my head I can only recall The Voice, Navigation, clairsentience/prescience, Mentat mental acuity and Prana Bindu techniques, and nobody had all those to a high degree. A list of Power/Ability Feats gained either through class advancement (class "powers" and class-based Bonus Feats, such as Bene Gesserit and Mentats) or taken in place of standard Feats (by other characters)
Thanks again. I'll post up the new version when it's ready.
P.S. In the "Hallelujah Department," I now have the ability to create PDFs, so that's one less obstacle out of the way. And oh yeah, the next version will contain a "starter" adventure for level 1 characters. Hooray!
YAAAAAAAAAAAY! :D
Anyhoo - I am leaving a version of the RULBUK at 1.00
I am currently working on a small revision. The Sneak Attack rules were overpowered in melee, and there was no Death Attack for assassin's. Also added in Autohypnosis and some other missing things.
For my campaign - which is now completed - we are now looking towards a sequel, high level campaign (10th+). However given the limited nature of the D20 modern base classes i.e. 10th level, I need extra content; High Level Feats is the easiest, hence my interest in the PHB II, to reflect Hasimir Fenring and the Sardaukar et alia. These feats were not available before, and given the high requirments could not of been obtained earlier in the campaign... so I think I am in the clear here. I also need a workable influence system - which is what drew me to the Game of Thrones.
I know you (and we all) want d20 Dune to be the best it can be, of course, but aren't you worried at all about getting sued?
Well, frankly... no. I'm not. I'm not selling this product. I'm just taking bits that other people wrote and making it into something we can play with. I never intended to sell, distrubute or in any other way profit from this product. I just wanted something to play.
And yes, as far as the ADD goes, I like the skill groups, but I'm canning the Mastery Feats.
Jedi Steve-OMy first impulse is to say, do a skill-based system more in line with Star Wars but without costing VP. Then I start wondering if perhaps Feats might be a better way to go, given that I don't remember seeing a dazzling array of psychic powers, just a few very important skills -- off the top of my head I can only recall The Voice, Navigation, clairsentience/prescience, Mentat mental acuity and Prana Bindu techniques, and nobody had all those to a high degree. A list of Power/Ability Feats gained either through class advancement (class "powers" and class-based Bonus Feats, such as Bene Gesserit and Mentats) or taken in place of standard Feats (by other characters)
I agree with the skills and feats approach. Skills such as Autohypnisis already cover a few of the Bene Gesserit powers - Litany Against Fear, Poison Resistance, Mind over Body at 0 and less hit points.
Navigation becomes a unique power of the Navigator 'monster'.
I am loathe to add skills for psionic powers - because I argue, except in the films, there is no mention of telepathy, or 'ki shouts' "He no longer needs the weirding module!"
The only mention of telepathy in Dune (all 6 novels) is to deny it. When Jessica becomes a Sayyadina.
It was like an ultimate simpatico, being two people at once: not telepathy, but mutual awareness.
With the old Reverend Mother!
If you are playing Lynches Dune though, that's another matter.
I agree with the skills and feats approach.
Looks like I forgot to finish that paragraph. Oops. :embarrass Anyway, what I was getting at was that there weren't enough "psionic powers" in Dune to warrant skills. A few feats could cover the just about entire range of things pretty well.
The only obvious problem with this approach would be Prana Bindu techniques, really. This, in my head, is the closest Dune gets to "a class with a power list". Unless each feat is somewhat general, a character would never be able to display the array of abilities of a canonical Bene Gesserit. This is the only place where I think skills would work better -- but then you run into the Jedi problem of "too many skills to spend my points on". Nevermind "game balance", Bene Gesserit are highly skilled as well as competent "power-users". You'd wind up having to give them an insane skill point allotment (10+, maybe 12+?) to keep up both ends. An obvious solution is to ditch the skills and go with an actual D&D/d20M style list of Powers and make the BG into a kind of "psion", but that introduces Power Points, and do you really wanna do that for just one class?
It's been quite a long time since I actually read a Dune novel, the abyssmal Brian Herbert / Kevin Anderson prequels notwithstanding. Could someone perhaps present a list of Prana Bindu techniques which are displayed or mentioned? That might make this a bit easier.
Prana-Bindu Suspension - includes fast reactions, poison resistance. Some feat that allows stat boosting like Enhance Abilities from SWD20.
Mental Abilities, memorisation and reporting verbatim, litany against fear; Autohypnosis skill.
Voice (Feat), requires Prana-Bindu Suspension for precise vocal control, and Minutiae Observation to 'catch' the precise requirements for the current individual.
Truthsense - not Bene Gesserit only. This is innate and emphasised with training and drugs.
Other Memories (Feat) - Spice Agony, requires Prana Bindu Suspension (CON boost) and the Poison Resistance elements of Autohypnosis.
Simpatico Sharing (Feat) - Requires Other Memories Feat, and allows sharing of Other Memories with others who have Other Memories.
Weirding Way. The Bene Gesserit are not ninjas! Though they are honed to perfection, Jessica took Stilgar by surprise. Her attack used speed. With Improved Initiative and DEX boosted, or some other mechanism of going first, like the Negotiator Advanced Class 'Go First!' ability this could be replicated without goin down the path of ludicrous combat feats. In my campaign I merely used the defensive martial arts tree for the BG and the standard martial arts tree for everyone else.
i'm actually nearing completion on my own version of this fantastic game that should've been made years ago.
You are correct about the need for a D20 Dune.
A friend of mine has DUNE:Chronicles of the Imperium from Last Unicorn, which was an amazing book. I cannot fathom why WotC has buried it after buying Last Unicorn. *shakes head*. I have sent several letters asking for a full printing at least, but WotC always says no.
I had hoped for a D20 conversion minimum, with maybe the same artwork and other flavor material from the Last Unicorn version, but it never happened.
A D20 DUNE fills the vast chasm left by WotC killing Last Unicorn.
Kudos for taking on an epic challenge. From a little skimming of this thread and the YahooGroup, it looks great!
As time permits, I will read all of the posts here, and there, and check out all of the files. If you are still working on the project, my friends and I will be happy to send any comments we come up with as we try converting the Last Unicorn scenarios we have over to the D20 version.
I just thought that was pretty cool.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled lives.
Jedi Steve-OMy first impulse is to say, do a skill-based system more in line with Star Wars but without costing VP. Then I start wondering if perhaps Feats might be a better way to go, given that I don't remember seeing a dazzling array of psychic powers, just a few very important skills -- off the top of my head I can only recall The Voice, Navigation, clairsentience/prescience, Mentat mental acuity and Prana Bindu techniques, and nobody had all those to a high degree. A list of Power/Ability Feats gained either through class advancement (class "powers" and class-based Bonus Feats, such as Bene Gesserit and Mentats) or taken in place of standard Feats (by other characters)
Perhaps a combination of skills and feats could be the way to go. Or to put it more correctly the use of feats to expand upon existing skills as well as any new skills that might be necessary. Take the "Truthsense" concept. This could be seen as an expansion of the skill Sense Motive. "Voice" can be seen as an extension of Bluff and/or Diplomacy depending on the type of Voice being used. Many of the more muscle/nerve focused Bene Gesserit abilities could be feats that add new uses/enhancements to skills such as Balance, Autohypnosis, Tumble, Jump etc. The abilities of the Bene Gesserit in Dune have never been supernatural in my eyes (despite what Brian Herbert may try to portray) but rather are ordinary skills and abilities taken to extraordinary extremes. Even something like the Atreides prescience can be seen as an extension of something already inherent in humans or an extension of some of the effects common to psychotropic drugs (considering the time of writing for the Dune books this wouldn't surprise me).
So my suggestion in this case is to create a series of feats that expand upon the use of skills (one or a similar group depending on the ability in question). That way the emphasis is still upon the fact that the basics of the skill have to be known in the first place before they can be evolved into something more complex such as Diplomacy into Voice or Autohypnosis into some of the more potent mind conditioning abilities such as mentat memory recall etc. Actually when you think about it Voice really is Diplomacy and Bluff, simply capable of achieving such results in a very short time span or without the target even being allowed a chance to resist it through standard means. As it is, it would seem that Sense Motive can resist many uses of Voice anyway or at least make the target aware that Voice is being used upon them or those near them.
-Arx-
You may notice that it also refers to something called "Influence". Essentially Influence is a replacement for Diplomacy. In AGOT Diplomacy is only used to change Attitude, whereas Influence can be used to actually change their stance on things or sway them to your side. Influence must be placed into NPCs (eg. Paul's influence over Stilgar) and/or organisations or groups (eg. Duke Leto's influence over House Atreides) and essentially represents how much power/import/friendship/blackmail you have with that person. I may post the Influence system another time.
SOCIAL RANK DESCRIPTION
-1 OUTCAST (see Outcast Defect, page 202)
The character is an outcast from society. He or she may be a criminal, exile, wildling, outlaw, or slave, and has no social standing. The character has no Influence Points, no Wealth (Rank -1, see the Poor Defect, page 202), and no assets except what he or she has scavenged or been given.
0 SMALLFOLK / APPRENTICE / NOVICE / SELLSWORD / SQUIRE / HEDGE KNIGHT
The character has no particular standing, and is essentially a member of the smallfolk. This may be due to age or lack of experience. The character must work hard, and some days are still a struggle, but the character also experiences small joys. The character has access to the minimum equipment needed for his or her profession. The character has no Base Influence Points nor Wealth.
NOTE: A hedge knight or respected member of the smallfolk (like a skilled blacksmith) tends to be of this Rank, but either has the Raised Status Feat (Infl uence over the local village, etc.), the Command Feat, or the Wealth Feat.
1 SWORN SWORD / HOUSEHOLD SERVANT / LESSER MERCHANT / ACOLYTE MAESTER
The character is connected to a house or organisation, and can rely on it for minor support and favours, and is expected to serve or be called on in return. The character has access to at least the minimum equipment needed for his or her profession, and likely room and board. He or she may be able to acquire more valuable goods for pressing business. The character has +5 Base Influence Points over a house or organisation (possibly gained by the Raised Status Feat), and Wealth Rank 1.
2 HOUSE RETAINER / LANDED KNIGHT / MERCHANT / MAESTER
The character has achieved powerful connections to a house or organisation, and in return acquires greater status and wealth. The character’s family may have been loyal for more
than a generation. The character can call upon his or her organisation to provide whatever equipment is needed within reason, and can even request the service of household servants (characters with Rank 1 in the same organisation or less, such as septas, hunters, or men-at-arms) on occasion. In return, the character is expected to support the organisation and may be called on as needed. The character has +10 Base Infl uence Points over a house or organisation, and Wealth Rank 2. The character is ECL +1.
3 MEMBER OF A MINOR HOUSE / GREATER LANDED KNIGHT / GREATER MERCHANT
The smallest of lords commands respect due to his blood, but this may be matched or even surpassed by the greatest landed knights and merchants. Whether baseborn or lowest of the highborn, these individuals have lands and wealth attached to their name, and this passes through the generations. The character likely commands small properties and has significant wealth. A greater landed knight may have more sworn swords, and a greater merchant more ships, but a noble will technically be ranked above them. The character can call for significant aid from the organisation regularly, but is expected to defend and support it at all times. The character has +15 Base Influence Points over a house or organisation, and Wealth Rank 3. The character is ECL +2.
4 MEMBER OF A GREAT HOUSE / ARCHMAESTER / BROTHER OF THE KINGSGUARD
The character has major status in Westeros. The character automatically outstrips anyone who was not born or raised into nobility, no matter their wealth or armies. The character likely commands moderate properties and has substantial wealth. The character can call for significant aid from his or her bannermen, but has many obligations to the house, and occasionally to his or her bannermen, as well. The character has +20 Base Influence Points over a house or organisation, and Wealth Rank 4. The character is ECL +3.
5 MEMBER OF THE ROYAL FAMILY
The character is one of the most powerful nobles in Westeros, an immediate member of the royal family (prince, princess, etc.). The character has tremendous resources, in the form of property, men, wealth, etc., and can likely borrow even more from allies for a short time. The character can call for substantial aid from his or her bannermen, but the obligation to the house is nearly total. The character has +25 Base Infl uence Points over the royal house (the kingdom), and Wealth Rank 5. The character is ECL +4.
(6) KING (OR RULING QUEEN)
The character is the most powerful noble in Westeros, the king (or ruling queen) of the Seven Kingdoms. The king or queen has vast powers and resources, and can theoretically command any and every noble across the lands. In reality, the king or queen has as many duties and obligations as powers, and may have to court the great lords and ladies in order to get what he or she wants. The character is Social Status Rank 5, with the Heir Feat and the Head of House Feat, for a Base Infl uence over the Kingdom of +30, and Wealth Rank 6.
WEALTH
RANK DESCRIPTIVE VALUE
-1 The character is completely destitute. He or she has no means, no incomes, no resources. The character might not even own clothes or food, if he or she is a slave or criminal,
and must either steal, be given those things, or do without.
0 The character is poor, but not completely without means. The character has a roof over his or her head and meals are rarely a worry, although they consist of simple fare.
The character owns a few things, and has access to whatever equipment is needed to fulfi l his or her job, but may not own it. He or she may be willing to scrimp and save
in order to afford a rare luxury. The character can support a small family, though sacrifi ces will have to be made.
1 The character is stable. He or she owns a small homestead or is in service to a lord who provides room and board. The character owns or has regular access to any equipment
needed for his or her profession. The character may have a few fancy outfi ts, a family heirloom of reasonable worth, or certain specialised tools. Occasional luxuries are
purchased without worry, and the character can support a medium-sized family without concern. If a merchant or artisan, the character may employ a couple of apprentices
who serve for room and board.
2 The character is well off. He or she has claim to certain lands or has established a profi table business. The character has access to whatever he or she needs on a daily basis,
although large expenditures (a bejewelled suit of armour, a longship, a gala ball, entertaining the king, etc.) should be rare. The character may have stockpiled resources up
over the years, and is thus able to weather small crises or unexpected turns in fortune. A merchant might have numerous assistants and warehouses in several ports. A knight
could have a small holdfast and garrison of men-at-arms. The character could not long withstand a siege (either military or economic), but can make reasonable aggressive
or defensive manoeuvres (again, military or economic).
3 The character is wealthy. He or she has extensive holdings, either rich lands or profi table businesses. The character may be more powerful than some small lords in terms
of resources and the ability to marshal soldiers. The character should have reasonable stockpiles of supplies, and is able to weather major crises or extended downturns in
fortune. A merchant might have a fl eet of ships, while a knight could control a major castle and surrounding lands. These properties may employ dozens or even hundreds
of men and women, who are reasonably loyal to the character. The character could survive a siege although at great cost. Similarly, the character could easily marshal troops
for skirmishes or raids, or support a greater lord’s army; the character cannot truly wage a long war against an equal or greater opponent without tremendous sacrifi ce.
4 The character is very wealthy. He or she has either multiple large properties, or holds a key territory. The character may be a staunch supporter and key resource to a great
house, and has tremendous sway in the region due to economic control. The character is able to weather extended crises or disastrous changes in fortune, and survive anything
less than a concentrated attack. The character likely has hundreds or even thousands of vassals. The character could survive an extended siege. The character can wage war
against a weaker foe without signifi cantly diminishing his or her own forces, and can commit against an equal or even superior force, although at great risk.
5 The character is tremendously wealthy. He or she controls an enormous territory, with many holdings and assets. The character is a major force in any area to which he or
she chooses to commit himself (militarily, economically, politically, etc.). The character can survive anything but the harshest winters or greatest disasters. The character
has thousands or tens of thousands of sworn men and women, and diversifi ed resources. He or she could survive a siege almost indefi nitely and can call the swords for an
extended war. The character can supply a massive army, or navy, or possibly both, and can normally survive even a powerful loss as long as there is some way out.
6 The character is fabulously wealthy — one of the richest few anywhere in the Seven Kingdoms or the lands to the east. He or she controls an enormous territory and
additionally holds plum resources (mines, trade routes, rare vineyards, etc.). The character’s holdings are similar to those of the previous Rank, but the character may also
lend tremendous sums to other houses or organisations — equipping armies, fi nancing campaigns, hosting royalty, etc. These tend to have the highest returns in political
favours. The character’s army may not be bigger than another lord’s, but it will likely be better equipped and lords and generals will be more opulently furnished. The
character’s resources are very diffi cult to diminish or impact in any serious way.
Note: If a character makes a significant purchase (relevant to his or her Wealth Rank) it may temporarily reduce the character’s Wealth Rank. It is suggested that Wealth rarely be
lowered by more than 1 Rank, and this penalty should last only until an appropriate amount of time has elapsed (normally between one session and until the end of a signifi cant story
arc). Similarly, if the character discovers a windfall (wins a major tourney, ransoms a wealthy lord, etc.) the character’s Wealth Rank may temporarily rise by 1 Rank.
Well I hope that adds some food for thought.
-Arx-
It's OGL content so we can use it freely?
Your suggested approach for the Bene Gesserit skills/feats is massively similar to mine, perhaps differing only on having Voice as a feat rather than tacking it on to Diplomacy. The Dune Encyclopaedia explanation of the Voice power suggests that it's not paranormal in any sense, however to paraphrase; any suitably advanced training of humans (the ultimate technology in Dune), is indistinguishable from magic. Which is where the misunderstandings are coming from.
I have been reading the GoT sourcebook with avid interest, the system could with a few Title/Profession changes be hot swappable into the Dune rulbuks.
I've noticed the same thing. It's practically the fantasy equivalent of Dune. Particularly in that it's a game that revolves around social class, politics and intrigue, where combat is particularly deadly even for those at higher levels.
It's OGL content so we can use it freely?
Yep. With the exclusion of a few chapters, specifically those referring to or outlining the world specific elements it's all OGL.
As for title changes - in regards to the Social Rank system it would be as easy as this.
-1) Outcast / Renegade
0) Smallfolk / Apprentice / Novice / Mercenary / Squire / Common Warriors
1) House Soldier / Household Servant / Lesser Merchant / Trainee Mentat
2) House Retainer / Merchant / Mentat (could possibly be bumped up to 3)
3) Member of the Houses Minor / Greater Merchants
4) Member of the Great Houses / Imperial Sardaukar
5) Member of the Imperial Family (eg. Irulan)
6) Emperor of the Known Universe (eg Shadam IV)
The classes of AGOT can similarly be swapped over to a Dune game with just a name change. The only necessity would be altering the Maester's abilities slightly and developing a Bene Gesserit themed class.
Artisan - This one works just as it is.
Godsworn - The only class that doesn't really switch over, mainly due to its religious focus. With a lot of tweaking and meddling it could be made into a Bene Gesserit style class.
Hunter - Similar to the Ranger but with a terrain focus as opposed to being about enemies. Could work well for the Fremen or any group specialised with certain terrains.
Knave - Basically a "rogue" but a bit more rounded with abilities like Illicit Barter. Perfect for smugglers.
Maester - A fairly close equivalent of a Mentat but can also represent anyone trained in the sciences such as Suk doctors or members of the Bene Tleilaxu, Ix or the Guild.
Man-at-Arms - Basically a Fighter with a few armour based abilities. Those can be changed.
Noble - Perfect the way it is.
Raider - Warriors who live on the fringes of society. Fremen would generally be raiders.
I thought I'd post up the Defense rules from AGOT as well again I think it's a perfect fit for Dune. Having a static Armour Class is all well and good but Dune has always been a bit more duel based in my eyes.
Defence
In AGOT d20 a character has a base Armour Class (AC), and a dynamic defence check. The character’s Armour Class is determined by adding his or her Dexterity Modifier + any Class Defence Bonuses + any Feat bonuses + any Class Special Ability bonuses.
If a character is the target of a worthy attack (any attack check that is equal to or greater
than the character’s Armour Class), he or she may attempt to defend against it with a dodge
or parry (avoiding the attack by moving out of the way, or using a weapon to push the attack to the side or “off-line”). Defensive actions are not dependent on Initiative order but resolved immediately after the attack before the attack damage is calculated or revealed.
The character’s defence roll (used in an opposed check against the attacker’s attack roll) is equal to 1d20 + the character’s Armour Class + any additional appropriate modifiers.
The defence check succeeds if the result is greater than the attack check. Each character can attempt a defence only once against a particular attack (including grapples). A character may defend against more than one attack in a round, but with an appropriate penalty to each defence after the first (see below). Should the opponent not defend (perhaps in anticipation of a more powerful attack still to come), he or she cannot change that decision later in the round.
Defending Against Multiple Attacks
When defending against multiple attacks in a single round, each defence check after the
first incurs a cumulative defence roll penalty of -2: -2 for the second defence, -4 for the third, -6 for the fourth, etc. This means that even the greatest fighter may be overwhelmed if badly outnumbered. If successful, the defender blocks, dodges, or otherwise negates the attack, and suffers no damage.
Shield Defence
Characters expecting battle will often equip themselves with a shield to improve their chances of survival. A shield provides a significant AC bonus, based on its size. A buckler
provides a +4 bonus, a small shield +6, and a large shield +8. If the character’s defence check succeeds, he or she takes no damage. A character who is nonprofi cient with a shield defends at a -2 penalty. If the character’s defence check fails, the attack successfully bypassed the shield, and the shield does not reduce the damage (although armour worn certainly will).
If an attacker does not try to avoid the shield (i.e., is happy to strike it head on) the
shield provides no AC bonus. Instead, the shield provides additional Damage Reduction
(equal to its Armour Rating, see Armour, page 211). The damage inflicted is reduced by the
shield’s Damage Reduction, and any further damage is applied to the shield’s Hit Points.
Once the shield has been reduced to 0 HP, it is ruined and provides no further AC bonus,
nor Damage Reduction.
If a shield is reduced to 0 HP, and some attack damage still remains, the excess damage
is applied to the character (reduced by armour worn, as normal). For example, if a shield has
2 Hit Points remaining, and an attack inflicts 6 damage to the shield, the shield is ruined and
the excess 4 damage is applied to the defending character.
The GM may decide that a shield does not assist against some attacks. Shields are
ineffective against attacks that only have to make contact with their target. For example,
attempting to use a shield against a grapple attack would just allow the grappler to grab onto the character’s shield. Similarly, using a shield against a net would be useless. Characters should still be able to dodge such attacks as long as they are free to move, but a shield should not provide an Armour Class bonus.
I included the shield rules from AGOT as I thought they might provide some interesting ideas for combat with the shields of the Dune universe.
Next up is the rules for Shock. Dune is a world where things are a bit more gritty and realistic. People don't run around taking 54 damage from Fireballs only to laugh it off and keep fighting because they've only lost a fraction of their HP. Shock makes every hit a potential threat, even to the hardiest characters. Shock is also why the Defense rolls are so important. I truly believe both fit Dune perfectly.
Shock Value
A character’s Shock Value is equal to his or her Constitution Score divided by 2 (round
down, minimum of 1). If a character suffers an amount of damage greater than his or her Shock Value, there is a danger that the character will be stunned. If the attack penetrates the skin (such as an arrow or knife), the Shock Value also represents the damage necessary to inflict a Serious Injury, which, if untreated, can result in the character bleeding to death. A nonlethal attack can still stun a target, but does not cause bleeding.
Shock
If a character suffers more damage from a single attack than his or her Shock Value, he or she must make a Fortitude Save vs. a DC of 12 + 1 per point of damage inflicted above
the character’s Shock Value (round down). If the check fails, the character is stunned and will collapse. The character will also let go of anything he or she is holding. The attack does not have to break the skin.
The character’s incapacitation will last for a number of rounds equal to the amount by which the Save was failed. An incapacitated character is effectively out of action, either knocked out or awake but immobilised by pain or shock. He or she may not take any offensive, defensive, or non-combat actions. The duration of incapacitation from multiple failed Saves
from several injuries occurring in a short period of time is cumulative.
Shock Recovery (Optional)
Normally, characters only recover from shock after a number of rounds equal to the amount by which they failed their Fort Save. GMs may wish to give characters a chance to recover every round, however. In this case, during the character’s Initiative, he or she should roll a Fort Save. On the first round the DC is 20, and this lowers by 1 (19, 18, etc.) every round
until the character recovers, either by making the Save or after the required number of rounds have passed. The character cannot take a standard or full-round action on the round he or she recovers, but the character may take a move action (or simply play dead). During his or her next Initiative, the character can act normally.
Serious Injury
A character that suffers more damage than his or her Shock Value from an attack that breaks the skin (such as a knife, arrow, axe, etc.) has taken a Serious Injury. A character
who suffers a Serious Injury loses one additional Hit Point every round he or she remains in combat until given successful first aid (even if the character makes a successful Fort save
to avoid Shock). If the character is no longer in combat (whether because he or she falls
unconscious or for any other reason that stops the character from fighting), he or she loses one Hit Point every minute instead of every round. A character that decides to stop fighting (and who has no opponents targeting him or her) is considered out of combat.
A seriously injured character who has received a battlefield dress will lose one Hit Point
every hour until he or she undergoes successful surgery. Thus, a character who is badly hurt
might die because of shock and internal injuries before he or she can be stabilised. A character can suffer multiple Serious Injuries. If so, each must be treated separately, and Hit Point losses are cumulative.
Treatment for Serious Injuries
If a character suffers a Serious Injury, he or she will lose one Hit Point every round (or
every minute if out of combat) until treated. This requires a successful Heal (Physic) Skill
check against a DC of 15 + 1 per Serious Injury suffered, and takes a full-round action; several tries can be made until successful. If the character is trying to dress his or her own wounds, apply a -2 penalty.
Just stopping the bleeding through a field dress is not enough, however — it only slows the loss of Hit Points. As mentioned before, a Serious Injury that is treated will still result in the loss of one additional Hit Point every hour until the character undergoes more thorough treatment. This requires a Heal (Surgery) Skill check against a DC of 15 + 1 per Serious Injury suffered. There is no penalty if performed in a clean, dry location with suitable
equipment available, but a -4 penalty applies if it is performed with less adequate facilities (for example, using incomplete or low-quality tools or an inappropriate location) or -8 if performed with completely improvised equipment (for example, on the ground near a battlefield using only what can be found nearby). Each attempt will take at least 10 minutes. Success stabilises the patient while failure does nothing. Another try is possible, however.
Optionally, a character who has been badly injured (negative Hit Points) because of
cumulative Hit Point loss may also require treatment, even if he or she did not suffer a Serious Injury. This may be dependent on the nature of the injuries — someone who was badly burned may be in worse condition than someone who was beaten up. The GM can rule that keeping the character alive until he or she can be properly treated requires a successful Heal (Physic) Skill check and that full recovery (at doubled healing rate) will require a Heal (Surgery) Skill check.
Lengthy I know. But hey it's more ideas and they are always good.
-Arx-
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=260781
They have a spanish and a french set of homebrew Dune Rules there, and direct us to yet another set of unlicensed but eerily familiar professional rules.
Anyhoo I am crossposting to there.
In other news, I hope to have a 1.04 revision of my RULBUK up soon. My campaign is active again now i am back from France.
I call on my friend Jedi Steve-o to post the location of the most updated version of the DUNE: A DREAM OF RAIN roleplaying game and I welcome Artaxerxes to do the same with his RULBUK.
After they indulge me, I call on all others interested in this thread to reply with what they like or dislike. Tell them why you like Dune in the first place, and whether these rules inspire you to play or are simply analogous to a Technical Manual for a Trekkie or Millenium Falcon blueprints to a Star Wars junkie.
Be honest.
That is all,
RMS
I call on my friend Jedi Steve-o to post the location of the most updated version of the DUNE: A DREAM OF RAIN roleplaying game and I welcome Artaxerxes to do the same with his RULBUK.
Hi all. I have the privilege to host the most recent versions of both these works. Please check the site here
As soon as I have time, I'll link some other works to this page too, but know I'm too drowned by my job.
Regards to all.
Frank Herbert's Dune is about the limits of humanity. The 'Science Fiction' is extrapolation of human abilities (Mentats, Voice, Ginaz Swordmasters, Prana Bindu, Religion as a a tool of Statecraft, Prison Planet/Dune/Harsh Enironments and the Amtal Rule, Breeding Programs, Spectrum Awareness Narcotics, Genetic Engineering). The questions asked are 'What happens if Humans were forced to the extremes of their potential without technological crutches?' The simplest answer is conflict, endless conflict.
The gadgets are completely secondary, such as the Holtzmann Shield, and exist only to force the milliue to allow human interaction to be only on a human to human level. As such it skirts the common failing of sci fi universes where bigger and better guns/computers/spaceships/telepathic powers are used instead of humans. Without a 'winning technology' the conflict is endless, and remains human.
So to serve this my system takes the 6 base classes of the D20 Modern System, which are based on the 6 fundamental characteristics of Humans (in d20 at least) and allows them to explore a future where human is measured against human, at the height of their potential. Conflict as the ultimate test.
So, erm, in summary, the RULBUK is cool. Characters blended from the fundamental classes/archetypes Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated and Charismatic allow an near infinite expression of character choices when combined with the roles in the universe, Assassin, Noble, Swordmaster, Bene Gesserit, Warmaster and mixtures thereof.
So the RULBUK allows a Dedicated/Charismatic Swordmaster, A Fast/Dedicated Mentat, A Strong/Tough Assassin. Which allows the expression of the fundamental philisophy of my vision of Frank Herbert's Dune. All paths of human potential (with the straighjacket of D20 of course).
Well that was longer than expected!
While I am sure that you filled out that section to the best of your ability, I have some constructive criticisms.
Though some may not consider them cannon, Brain Herbert (Frank's son) and Kevin J. Anderson have put together 2 sets of prequels to Frank's novels, along with their current project of reconstructing book #7 from Frank's notes. One of their prequels covers this Jihad.
Now, I concede, I have never read the original Dune book, though I have had quite alot of exposure to the Dune universe. In describing the Jihad, you say that the people rose up against stagnant Houses. While this has some merit, it is incorrect, assuming that Brian did not re-write his father's history.
Assuming that, again, he didn't entire ret-con his father's works, the Jihad and its history breaks down as such:
The Old Empire becomes stagnant and hedonistic. They create machines with fully functional AI to perform almost every task for them. Some people, however, do not accept this. These people would form the 20 Titans, a group of people who would overthrow the Old Empire.
Using advanced programming techniques, the Titans turn the machines against their masters, but implant a failsafe that blocks them from harming the Titans, some of which were part of House families.
Soon, the Titans had crushed all rebellion using the machines. They kept and iron grip ont he universe. However, one of the Titans, who went by the codename Xerxes, became a hedonist like his father, a former House representative. allowing his machines more control, they eventually formed a master overmind, giving the machines a hive mentality and an overlord. He christened himself Omnius.
Using workarounds the failsafe, Omnius overthrew the Titans, allowing most to live, though some were "accidentally" killed. The failsafe only blocked the intentional death of a Titan.
At any rate, about 2 centuries later, the machines rule most of the universe. Humans are enslaved and treated like animals, thus retrogressing most of the humans into barbaric savages, thus only hurting their position in the eyes of Omnius, who already want sto eradicate them. On a select group of planets call the League Worlds, however, humans had fought off the machines and held ground. Though it is not accepted by all, many planets enslaved the Budislamics, who refused to help fight the machines.
Neutrally, there are the Unallied Planets, who care for neither group. while most planets are Budislamic safe havens, the home planet of the Tlulaxa resides here. The Tlulaxa were flesh merchants and slave traders, harvesting body parts from unsold slaves to sell to the disabled, under the guise of them being cloned in tanks.
The daughter of the League Viceroy, Serena Butler, ws kidnapped on a mission to recapture a recently lost world, which succeded anyway. Her child, by the father Xavier Harkonnen, spends its few moments in life on the machine controlled Earth.
Vorian Atreides, the son of the head Titan (through in-vitro impregnation with stored sperm), finds this Serens Butler and falls in love, though she despises him for being a Trustee, and educated human ally of the machines. his mind clouded by propoganda, he feels all humans should be killed.
As an experiment, a machine inspires another Trustee, Iblis Ginjo, to try to start a revolution. Against all odds, he succeeds. When he bears witness to the murder of Serena's child, he awakens his sleeper cells, which turned to revolt on Earth.
The Titans, their brains encased in robot bodies, kill all humans on Earth.
The League, finding out months later (no space-folding technology unil late int he Jihad). Enraged, the Leauge demands a response. Xavier Harkonnen leads a group of soldiers, along with Vorian Atreides (who has turned to the side of the humans) to make a fateful strike: nuke Earth into an uninhabitable glass ball.
The machines counterattack, and so on and so forth. Serena and her son are set u as saints of their own followers, which later forms a Jihad religion. to make a holy trilogy, her Grand Patriarch, Iblis Ginjo, is also made a saint, due to a happening that I will not spoil here.
Now, again, I am assuming that Brian did not change what his father set in history. I just wanted to say that at any rate, this is in some books, and I didn't know whether you knew that.
Just giving you a heads up.
PS: This si not inflammatory, angry, or sarcastic in any way. It is meant to be informational of another possibility, that is all.
As a basic overview of what he did change here's a random and by no means complete selection.
- The Bene Gesserit were never meant to have X-men grade psychic abilities. They could not run around and release psychic explosions from their brains, they cannot turn invisible, they cannot use telepathy or mental assaults (as they do in House Atreides/Harknonnen).
Even the little sequence where Norma reconstructs her body after being brutally assaulted is a load of crock. The Bene Gesserit could do this to an extent but it was slow, difficult and was more along the lines of maintaining ones metabolism and cell health.
- You may notice there were machines known as Agamemnon etc. Well this is another region where Brian sorta meddled around a bit. If you go by the Dune books when Herbert mentioned these names he was referring to the family of ancient Greece from our very own Earth. The Atreides are meant to be decendants from the House of Atreus which Agamemnon belonged to. Not some random result of a rebellion against machines.
- Speaking of machine wars that's another thing that never happened. The Crusade against the Machines was just that, a crusade. Filled with tons of religious craziness along the lines that humans had grown decadent and machinery was a tool of the devil and must be destroyed. No evil robot overlords, no crazy Erasmus or Omnius. Just a bunch of extremists running around the universe destroying technology in general - be they AI, computers, calculators or refridgerators. Humanity was practically thrown into a new dark age.
- Oh and speaking of Erasmus - mentats weren't the result of a robot teaching a human to use his brain properly. They were a result (aka came after) the actual Butlerian Jihad. A response to the lack of computers in general etc.
So yeh, Brian did change a few things. His books aren't that bad in their own right but they do differ strongly from the original Dune.
They're basically filled with over the top special effects and have attempted to cram the entire history into a short series of books. Now this is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just not "Dune".
Hope that helps clear some things up for you.
-Arx-
Ah, sorry to break it to you but in regards to the "assuming Brian did not change his father's story", well he basically did do just that. He basically transformed Dune from a down to earth and subtle sci-fi into a run-of-the-mill scifi complete with psychic head beams, evil domineering robots and random pointless explosions.
I thought of posting some of the differences between DUNE series and the new trilogies. Arx, your post hit many of the high points.
But, sci-fi isn't what it was when Cordwainer Smith and Frank Herbert were writing. The Butlerian Jihad (led by Jehanne Butler, not this upstart Serena whoever-she-is) could have been *boring* to modern audiences. A lot of politico-religious debate because everyone was basically just laying around apathetically in some metaphorical Xanadu? Woo! That's going to sell well.
So, from a practical standpoint, it made sense to me that the new trilogies would "sensationalize" aspects of the Dune universe.
I bought the new trilogies and like them... as I read through them, I could see where certain parts (even specific phrases) had originally come from Frank Herbert's notes. In some cases, the difference in style is pretty stark.
If people are looking for ways to expand DUNE: A DREAM OF RAIN (D20une), I would recommend chasing down sources like THE DUNE ENCYCLOPEDIA and not draw too heavily from the new trilogies. On the gripping hand, the setting of the new trilogies could be fertile ground for gaming.
However, in my opinion, a better case could be made to include other Frank Herbert's stories themselves as part of the DUNE universe, rather than the new trilogies.
There are some common threads of ideas and elements that draw across Frank Herbert's stories. The Moonbase and cloning from DESTINATION VOID could be a starting point. The Tleilaxu could be the original inheritors of the cloning technology from Old Earth that started on Moonbase.
The Nathian/Marakian Rim Wars, Rediscovery/Reeducation and Investigation/Adjustment services, and other elements from GODMAKERS such as the religio-psychic planet Amel could also fit.
It is a stretch, but elements from HELLSTROM'S HIVE could even be set in DUNE... at the end of the book, the Hive survived. Imagine what sort of hive could exist after 10,000 years of development.
There are no aliens listed in DUNE stories, but perhaps the ConSentiency stories could be set after DUNE and the Scattering, postulating alien contact sometime during the Scattering. For example, playing a Bureau of Sabotage agent could be interesting.
[...]
If people are looking for ways to expand DUNE: A DREAM OF RAIN (D20une), I would recommend chasing down sources like THE DUNE ENCYCLOPEDIA and not draw too heavily from the new trilogies. On the gripping hand, the setting of the new trilogies could be fertile ground for gaming.
[...]
However, in my opinion, a better case could be made to include other Frank Herbert's stories themselves as part of the DUNE universe, rather than the new trilogies.
[...]
Excellent sentiments.
I am loathe to include elements from the 'extended' universe which are completely at odds with the excellent Encyclopedia. However if these books revitalise an interest in Frank Herberts work, and bring more gamers to the table then I am very excited. I think many of the ideas could be used in far future post scattering games when many of the limits we see in the original 3 books are broken.
I am reaching the end game [again i know] for my current campaign and might place a sequel in the far future with characters more akin to Miles Teg and the Honoured Matres.
But, being the cynic that I am, I do have a few things of constructive criticism that could be looked into.
1. The Bene Gesserit Adept seems to be inspired directly by the Jedi classes from SWD20. If you look at those you'll see that Force-Sensitive is not a required feat but is gained upon taking the class. In that manner, shouldn't the Weirding Way feat be a starting feat as well? Aren't Bene Gesserit trained from birth in the Weirding Way afer all?
2. Acrobatics is trained only. This is kind of weird if you're standing on a beam. Naturally, anyone would balance, but in this instance I would need to have trained in it to be able to. It just seems wrong not be able to balance yourself.
3. You start the book saying everything in DUNE is metric, but the armor speeds are still in feet on pg. 106 table 6-4. Also, the Armor Focus feat used meters rather than feet.
4. Speaking of the same table, I see that light armor has a reduced speed as well. This is contrary to every other rulebook out there. Usually, a leather jacket wouldn't be so confining as to make me slow down.
5. Fedaykin prestige class could do with a Fremen Faction requirement.
6. Looking through the various animals in the Friends and Foes section I can see 4 different systems being used. One that uses VD; one using VP and WP; another with HP; and one more with HD. Even the sandworm and shai-hulud use different systems. Could do with some consistency perhaps?
Other than that I am thrilled to try this out on some unsuspecting roleplayers with a need for DUNE. Thank you very much for this endeavour. Keep up the good work.
However if these books revitalise an interest in Frank Herberts work, and bring more gamers to the table then I am very excited.
This is why I said that the setting and events of the new trilogies could be fertile gaming ground. It may not be canon, but the point of playing is to have fun, and what, exactly, is "canon" for having fun?
But, as Frank Herbert himself said in Dune, "how do you exhaust the possibilities of an entire planet?" Arrakis during the time of the Atreides war is plenty of fun gaming potential right there.
I am reaching the end game [again i know] for my current campaign and might place a sequel in the far future with characters more akin to Miles Teg and the Honoured Matres.
I have felt the Scattering itself would be an interesting setting.
Just look at the changes in the core Empire, and their effects!
- The development of the NoShips as a technological and military power.
- The development of the Ixian Navigator and the change to the Guild.
- The development of the Tleilaxu spice production "process"
- The decline of the Fish Speakers and return of the Bene Gesserit.
All of that is just sticking with the core Empire. Add in the entirety of the Scattering itself, and there is practically no limit to the kinds of gaming that could be set there.
First of all, a big thanks to Steve-0 and all who helped him reate this jewel that I've been looking for as long as memory serves me.
But, being the cynic that I am, I do have a few things of constructive criticism that could be looked into.
1. The Bene Gesserit Adept seems to be inspired directly by the Jedi classes from SWD20. If you look at those you'll see that Force-Sensitive is not a required feat but is gained upon taking the class. In that manner, shouldn't the Weirding Way feat be a starting feat as well? Aren't Bene Gesserit trained from birth in the Weirding Way afer all?
2. Acrobatics is trained only. This is kind of weird if you're standing on a beam. Naturally, anyone would balance, but in this instance I would need to have trained in it to be able to. It just seems wrong not be able to balance yourself.
3. You start the book saying everything in DUNE is metric, but the armor speeds are still in feet on pg. 106 table 6-4. Also, the Armor Focus feat used meters rather than feet.
4. Speaking of the same table, I see that light armor has a reduced speed as well. This is contrary to every other rulebook out there. Usually, a leather jacket wouldn't be so confining as to make me slow down.
5. Fedaykin prestige class could do with a Fremen Faction requirement.
6. Looking through the various animals in the Friends and Foes section I can see 4 different systems being used. One that uses VD; one using VP and WP; another with HP; and one more with HD. Even the sandworm and shai-hulud use different systems. Could do with some consistency perhaps?
Other than that I am thrilled to try this out on some unsuspecting roleplayers with a need for DUNE. Thank you very much for this endeavour. Keep up the good work.
Good points, all. Thank you for this constructive criticism, Wineballs. This is seriously the kind of critique I need.
Allow me to just say this about that...
1. I kept the Weirding Way feat separate (a prerequisite rather than a bonus feat) because not everyone who trains as a Bene Gesserit Adept starts off that way. I wanted to have the class open to everyone (within limits). For example, several males in the Dune books receive Bene Gesserit training (not the least of whom is Paul Atreides himself), and I wanted to provide for that in the game. And yes, if it looks like it was based on the SW Jedi classes, that's because it was.
2. Acrobatics is trained only for the same reason Tumble is trained only. If you don't have ranks in that skill, a Reflex save might be your only option.
3. Yes... well... :embarrass it's not all compliant yet. Sorry about the inconsistencies. It will SOON be all metric. Yes, soon. Soon.
4. Good point. That should be fixed. And, incidentally, so should dogs.
5. Also a good point. Yes, a Fremen Faction requirement was overlooked there.
6. See Response to No. 3.
Thanks again (sincerely) for the great ideas, and thanks for bothering to read the darn thing. I put it out there (in it's rough stage) precisely because I need to know what's broken with it. I've been working on it for over three years and frankly, I need a little objectivity.
Jedi Steve-OIn response to your argument on no.1. I, as a GM, would grant the feat rather than have it required. However, it's your book and you can put whatever rules in it as you like. Won't stop me from making a simple house rule :P
I am moving towards a 1.1 release of my D20 Modern system. So keep your eyes peeled for updates soon.
How is everyone else - is anyone running a game based on Steve's or my system?
This is all very exciting and cool stuff...I am running a Dune style campaign and was wondering if all of this was compiled in one place that was accessible (pdf, web site etc.)? Thanks.
Some files are available from the yahoo group site here
I know it's been a while since I've posted on here (spotty internet access can be such a pain), but I'm here in Austin, TX with Ryan to playtest the official version of D20une and try out the shield rules, etc. It's basically DUNE*Con 2006.
So, basically, I'm rededicating myself to the game (and by association, this thread).
Questions, comments, or concerns?
Jedi Steve-OSo... D20une needed some work. I admit it. The shield rules were reviewed and with Ryan's help, tweaked (read: totally redesigned and simplified) and now work fairly fluidly. I'm still finishing the rest of the classes, but it's pretty much ready to go. As soon as I get the layout finished (and add some graphics) I'll have it printed up, and posted.
As much fun as it's been, it'll be good to have it "finished."
Now, does anyone want to give me a job?
Jedi Steve-OThe shield rules were reviewed and with Ryan's help, tweaked (read: totally redesigned and simplified) and now work fairly fluidly.
So can you give us a peek at the new version?
Wyvern
Major updates in feat list (shield fighting feats from a variety of sources), and some flavour weapons added. Poisons reigned in.
Steve-O - we are still waiting to hear details of your playtest and revised shield fighting system.
More updates for my d20 Modern Conversion ... on the yahoo site.
I have also created some tentative rules for the Corrida Escuda (Bullfighting) which I will post after some more playtesting.
The first Tercio, is an performed purely with the Cape. A Lance is a pass, a set of lances is a Faena, and a set of Faenas is a Tandas. Each Faena is composed of 3-5 Lances. Each lance is composed of a Manoeuvre, coupled with one or more flourishes (noted below).
Perform(Dance) is used with the Cape. Coupled with the full round Cloak Dance feat, which gives 50% miss chance, the Perform Check, if successful, is added to this 50%.
The second Tercio is performed with the cape and banderillos (little flags). Again a series of Lances, but each involves a one handed pass, and the placement of a Banderillo. The Banderillos cause blood loss and weaken the Bull. Thus preparing the bull for the Estocada, in the following Tercio.
Perform(Dance) is used again, but this time the cloak Dance is performed only as a Partial Action, giving rise to a 20% mischance + the successful Perform Dance. The rest of the round is used to insert the Banderillos – or little flags. This is a standard attack. Each successful placement of a Banderillo gives a successive -1 on Fortitude saves (which becomes important in the Estocada, the Massive Damage Strike that ends the Third Tercio)
The third, Tercio de Muerte, the Act of Death, is the act of the Cape and Sword. Passes are performed, sometimes with the aid of the Estoque, the sword of the Matador. This act climaxes with the Estocada – the driving of the Estoque into the neck of the bull.
As in the first Tercio Perform(Dance) is used with the Cape. Coupled with the full round Cloak Dance feat, which gives 50% miss chance, the Perform Check, if successful, is added to this 50%.
The Matador can also use the Sword attack bonus in place of the Perform(Dance), as in this round he is armed. The sword can be used to guide the Cape. This allows multiple attacks to be employed (as well as feats that depend on attack actions such as Combat Expertise). The Bulls shielded AC is used as a target. Each successful attack may be totalled to give the final miss chance. Single Sword Manoeuvres can also be combined with a partial action Cloak Dance in a manner akin to using Perform(Dance).
The Tercio Muerte ends with the Estocada, one final Lance brings the Bull to the Matador. There the Matador attempts to kill with one stroke of the Estoque. Feats such as Power Critical (d20 Modern, auto critical for one Action Points, called Hand of God in my RULBUK) will be very useful. The bull already weakened by the Act of Banderillos should then succumb to the Matador.
Manoeuvres with the Cape
Abanico DC 10 "fan", two-handed cape manoeuvre, usually to bring bull to picador.
Alto, Pase por DC 12 high right-handed muleta pass
Arrucina DC 15 muleta held in right hand behind legs
Chicuelina DC 10- cape is pulled in tight against body
Farol DC 12 - two-handed cape pass where it is flipped over and round man's head
Manoletina DC 17- muleta is held behind one's back and lifted over bull's head
Mariposa DC 20 - "butterfly", a spectacular pass with cape held behind one's back
Media Veronica DC 10- pass where the cape is gathered up on the hip, ending series
Firma, Pase de la DC 20 - pass where muleta is snatched from bull's face
Natural DC 12 - usually refers to left-handed muleta pass without sword being used
Revolera DC 15 a swirling remate [enthusiastic] pass with the cape
Serpentina DC 15 "serpentine", a swirling cape pass
Trincherazo DC 12- right-handed muleta pass
Veronica DC 10 - the fundamental two-handed cape pass named after St.Veronica
Flourishes
Adorno - A pose, such as touching the bulls horns as it passes. Perform DC +5. On a failed check; provokes an attack of opportunity.
Ayudado - "helped", pass in which muleta is helped with the sword in other hand. You may use your total Attack Bonus with the Estoque rather than perform Dance. This also allows multiple manoeuvres to be performed.
Ceñirse - to pass the bull very close. Reckless. +2 on Skills and Attacks, -4 to AC.
Mirando al publico - cape or muleta pass performed while looking at the crowd. DC +5. On a failed Perform check the Bull attacks as if invisible.
Molinete - muleta pass where matador spins round after the horns have passed. Adds a second Perform Dance check at the same DC as the pass.
Muerte, Pase de la - "pass of death", matador stands motionless. Matador is considered flatfooted.
Rodillas, de - a pass done while kneeling. -4 on Perform(Dance), and Attacks, and AC.
Templar - "to moderate", to move the cape or muleta very slowly/smoothly. Raise Perform(Dance) DC +5.
Tremendismo - almost foolhardy brave style which gets the spectators excited. +2 on Skills and Attacks, -4AC, invokes an Attack of Opportunity.
NB there is a difference between the Cape of the First Act and that of the last Act in modern Spanish bullfighting. I have ignored the difference for ease of collating my list of acts.
Bull Stats as per the D20 SRD.
Any comments?
I am looking for a Technology aesthetic for these 10,000 year old relics that is not just the Borg, Mecha, Giger-eqsue biomechanics. Anyone have any intriguing ideas that they would care to throw at me... its reasonably central and i want my PCs to go - aaaaah.
I found the central tenet around which I can hang the entire religious stance of those on the losing side of the Jihad (the technologists). "The Last Question" is an excellent short story that posits something very fundamental about the being that said 'Let there be light'. If we take that as 'gospel' for the losing faction then we have something very interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question
More in keeping with the rules heavy thread I have been looking at the Willing Deformity Feats from Heroes of Horror and Book of Vile Deeds to add flavour to my House Harkonnen. These will add certain unique abilities.. in fitting with the Harkonnen ethos.
I have just dumped the list here - there are some that are too supernatural for my take on Dune.
Deformity (Clawed Hands) BV 48 Because of intentional self-mutilation, the character has deformed arms and hands ending in sharp claws.
Deformity (Eyes) BV 48 The character has either drilled a hole in her forehead trying to add a third eye, or she has supernaturally scarred one of her regular eyes.
Deformity (Face) BV 48 Because of intentional self-mutilation, the character has a hideous face.
Deformity (Gaunt) BV 48 Through intentional starvation and macabre operations, the character is grossly underweight.
Deformity (Obese) BV 48 Through intentional gorging and general gluttony, the character is obese.
Willing Deformity BV 50 Through scarification, self-mutilation, and supplication to dark power, the character intentionally mars her own body.
Deformity (Skin) HH 121 Due to a regimen of deliberate abuse, you have roughened your skin until it has grown as coarse and tough as rhino hide.
Deformity (Tall) HH 121 Through long and painful stints on the rack, bolstered by the surgical implantation of various splints and struts, you have stretched yourself to well over 7 feet in height.
Deformity (Teeth) HH 121 By filing your teeth to points and brutalizing your gums, you gain a hideous smile full of razor-sharp teeth that enable you to make a grisly bite attack.
Deformity (Tongue) HH 121 Through protracted self-mutilation that involves frequently piercing your tongue and dipping it in acid, your tongue becomes hideous to behold but oddly sensitive to the environment.
Willing Deformity HH 125 Through scarification, self-mutilation, or supplication to dark powers, you intentionally mar your own body.
HH - Heroes of Horror, BV Book of Vile Deeds.
This is my first post EVER on the WOTC forums so please....be gentle with me.
I have been reading this thread with great interest and as a fan of the Dune setting i have wanted to run a Dune campaign for a long time. Being a zealous fan of the D20 system the offical, "chronicles of the imperium" system doesnt realy work for me, and so i myself decided to jury rig and compile a system based on existing material (namely star wars and also to a lesser extend D&D, adding some alternate rules found in unearthed arcana and a few home grown rules.
Although i have not read all the way through the posts (and there were many, some of which were long ones) i get the distinct impression that too much focus is being placed on Arrakis.
I have to say that the idea of a fremen core class is a little strange as it is such a specific thing, an Idea i had was to combine the D&D barbarian and some form of "Crusader" (by which i mean someone fighting for an ideal as opposed to a paladin) and create the core class Warrior-Fanatic, this class can then be used for both Fremen and Sardaukar (after all the fremen and sardaukar are both practically identical, both come from hell worlds, both fight with fanatical disregard for personal safety, as the Baron explains to the Emperor about fremen tactics "the women throw themselves on to our knives to open a wedge for the men to attack" and in the glossary at the end of dune the Sardaukar are also said to fight with suicidal ferocity, perhaps a level 1 class feature requires a commitment to a particular Ideal or Person and a bonus is gained when fighting toward that object of devotion (with mechanics based around Ranger Favoured enemy perhaps).
I feel the star wars approach to the dune setting would be best in that a core rulebook with standard core classes (i.e classes that are common throughout the whole Imperium, soldier BG adept etc) and then create seperate sourcebooks for the specifics (star wars for example has the core rulebook, then power of the Jedi, darkside book, secrets of Naboo etc) a Dune core book can then be supplemented by additional books like "Arrakis, Centre of the universe" which has the prestige classes, like Fremen Naib (fremen style noble/officer), Fremen Anchorite (Limited adept), Spice smuggler etc, then have something like "The bene Gesserit Handbook" with prestige classes like reverend mother, Archivist etc and also expanded rules to cover things like the missionara Protectiva, and the Breeding program, (perhaps with some bonus feats for "manipulated bloodlines").
Whilst on the subject of the sisterhood, i always saw them as more of a cross between shaolin monks and Derren brown, who do not use psionics as such but rely on "unusual training" that thanks to the Missionara Protectiva is seen by the "uniniated" as special powers (they also serve the imperium in a priestly capacity) therefore the starwars Jedi classes work well for this system as the force powers are skill based, in fact many of the BG abilities mechanics are already in place and would require very minor adjustment to be usable, such as the mind trick for the voice, the defence bonus gained per level (representing the BG ability to read muscle tone and subtle movements to predict the attackers next move)
and in power of the jedi there are more skills and abilities, one of which is the ability to neutralize poisons and disease,
The Inclusion of Wierding modules is a nice touch as it allows the game to be tailored towards personal interpretation and taste instead of imposing anothers view on a game, I personally Mix and match the books, the film and the mini series, for instance i prefer the films portrayal of Dr Yeuh, Duke Leto and Shaddam IV and the Fremen,as well as the look and Feel of the BG sisterhood (with their nun like robes and shaved heads) and the general architectural style of Kaitain, Caladan, and Arrakis, but prefer the mini series portrayal of the Harkonnens.
Sorry for the long post and also if it is hard to follow, i am not used to posting on Forums and so lack practice writing a clearly presented post,apologies for any Spelling errors, pointers and advice are welcome :D
Good work so far, Thank you
Greetings to you all
This is my first post EVER on the WOTC forums so please....be gentle with me.
Glad to have some fresh blood aboard! The thread has been quiet so far this year.
The philosophy of your approach matches mine. For example; A reasonably had sci-fi approach to the Bene Gesserit (no psychic powers*, just supreme physical training and insight). Less emphasis on the Fremen and Arrakis, I prefer the swirl of the feudal fraufreleches. Generic character classes.
I sent you a private message a few days ago with my email, respond with yours and I will send you my d20 Modern conversion.
* The Voice has a pseudo-scientific basis explored in the Dune Encyclopaedia
I've put an ad in the RPG Classified to get gamers for my d20 DUNE game here in Los Angeles.
As soon as I get enough players, we'll get the campaign up and running. As soon as the campaign is up and running, I'll try to post a sysnopsis here in these boards.
Jedi Steve-OI'm still looking for players, though, and may be recruiting at the job -- since it's brimming with geeks, dorks, and nerds of all kind.
Steve-OI have used the 3.5 D&D rather than sticking with the d20 modern which have fewer steps.
The Fear rules are incredibly powerful. Just the use of Frightful Presence and one other source of Fear will Panic your PCs. I am introducing the Ordos (From the PC Games - famous for their fear/poison gas use) as a subplot and needed to clarify the rules for that upcoming encounter...
Frank Herbert wrote books that inspired us to live up to them.
Brian and Kevin seem to write as if they're looking down on us.
And that's why I'm not buying them.
Steve-OIs it just me, or do the Brian Herbert / Kevin J. Anderson DUNE books just really suck?
And that's why I'm not buying them.
Yeah they are schlock. As I say above though - if they revitalise interest in the Dune Universe, and therefore bring more readers to the real wonder, then it is a good thing. Elements, specifically names, are always useful.
Steve! We are still waiting for news of the Con playtest!
I am focused on revising my poison system right now.
Steve! We are still waiting for news of the Con playtest!
Um... thanks! Check message #703. Up a little ways...
It was a good time, and DuneCon was definitely an event. I'm revising more things, but since I've gotten exactly ZERO response to my soliciting players for a d20 DUNE game, I'm currently running a Star Wars game for the guys at work, and a Cyberpunk game for my roommate.
Also, I just picked up Road To Dune. Interesting... In the end, though, I can see why most of that stuff was edited. Oh, and the Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson stuff still sucked.
Steve-OUm... thanks! Check message #703. Up a little ways...
Also, I just picked up Road To Dune. Interesting... In the end, though, I can see why most of that stuff was edited. Oh, and the Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson stuff still sucked.
I meant to write; we are still waiting for a peak at your new streamlined shield combat system, that emerged as a result of playtesting. It had been so long since this thread had seen any movement I had forgotten.
If you want an interesting Dune book to read (that doesn't assume your are a pre-schooler), with direct application to echoing the themes of Dune in your own game then try;
Chaos Theory, Asimov's Foundations and Robots, and Herbert's Dune: The Fractal Aesthetic of Epic Science Fiction by Donald E. Palumbo
Entertaining.
My game marches on, continual playtesting reveals creaky assumptions that worked at low level, no longer apply at the top end
Revisions (continually) forthcoming.
Trick Blade: This is devious melee weapon which can suddenly extend its length by a handspan when the wielder presses a hidden switch.When you activate the Trick Blade, make a DC 13 Dexterity check. If the check fails there is no effect. If the check suceeds, you may attack as if you have the Improved Feint feat against your target for that round of comabt. An individual is immune to further uses of the same Trick Blade regardless of whether the first use succeeds or fails, as is anyone observed the blade being used. Spotting a Trick Blade is a DC 25 Perception check.
Trick Blade: This is devious melee weapon which can suddenly extend its length by a handspan when the wielder presses a hidden switch.
I like it! It's a clever idea, and seems very appropriate for the Dune universe (Dune-iverse?).Wyvern
I see everyone has been busy working the glorious project.
The bad news is that I have really no time to get any RPG time in and on group either.
But, hay that's the life.
Well anyone want to bring me up to speed?
Well anyone want to bring me up to speed?
It is quite quiet! I am again actively running my D20 Modern Conversion and churning out tweaks. Adding weapons and clarifying the system for higher level play. No clue how Steve's is coming along.
I am trying to work updating my poison creation system.
There are D20 Modern rules here... p.10 of the Web Enchancement
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/we/20021103a
Poisons figure prominently in the novels - and I wanted to reflect that in my game. The system is too bare, no flavour at all! Also, with a say 15 skill in Craft Chemical and reasonable resources they would be unstoppable.
A quick fix is to make poison on weapons Contact, rather than Injury.. Injury should really be 'Injection'. (DC 15 verus DC 5 to make!)
I want to add something akin to ingredients, just like the crystal elements of lightsabres in KotOR for instance. This will allow poisons to be deadly but add some difficulty in obtaining the elements. Rare roots from Ecaz, recipes of old Master Assassins cribed from their personal copy of the Handbook of Assassins.
I think the recent versions of my RULBUK are on the Yahoo Page.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/D20une/
Immunizing one's self: Rules for this will be important, especially since characters who specialize in poison will have an incentive to get protection against accidental poisoning. It would also made poison tooth cap use less than a suicidal last gasp, which might be a bad thing. Cool applications: poison perfume (inhaled vector) that you're immune to.
Binary Poisons: This is the opposite of what the Baron did to Hawat, essentially. Once the primary poison is in your system, it is harmless unless the target is exposed to a secondary activation poison, at which point it activates and kills the target. Cool application: binary activation perfume, which doesn't require the agent using it to be immune. Poison your target ahead of time, then you can kill him with the activation vector at your leisure.
Edit: I took a look at the poison rules and they are really weird in a lot of ways. Dealing 2D6 Con damage is apparently as powerful as dealing 2D6 hp damage. Not sure I really agree with that. Average 7 hp loss vs average of -3 hp PER HIT DIE loss... for anyone over level 2, the constitution damage is gonna hurt a lot more. Those rules will need a serious reworking artaxerxes, good luck with that!
I like your poisons ideas! More please.
My most recent poison, developed by the Ordos was designed to slip past Poison Snoopers. Spice is considered narcotic, but certainly not a poison.
Inspired by the real world Thalidomide, which was harmless in one form, I decided that Spice Essence that differed in Chirality (left/right handedness of a molecules spiral structure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirality ) would be dangerous.
The form was incredibly rare, and required extraction from a massive amount of refined spice... which fitted with my Ordos as they precede the Harkonnen's on Arrakis in my campaign.
This gave me a poison that passed all Snooper Tests, and also had the advantage in a War of Assassins; that only those who are normally on expensive Spice Diets would suffer i.e. it would have no Peon fallout as dictated by the Forms Which Must be Obeyed.
The special spice poison is an interesting idea, although it would have to be incredibly expensive, or else anyone on a spice diet would die instantly. The only alternative would be keeping massive stocks of guaranteed "clean" spice, but that would have to be purchased through smugglers in order to circumvent a potentially-compromised CHOAM, and that doesn't exactly bode well.
As for the rules side of the immunity idea, I think I saw a feat that allowed you to get immunity to one poison somewhere. That seems underpowered though, so I'd say make it 1+constitution bonus per time the feat is taken, and maybe create a poison use feat (like the assassin's class ability) as a prerequisite.
PS: I'm curious: how exactly would smugglers work if you need a guild navigator to travel between star systems? Did Herbert ever explain that?
You can sprinkle the ingredients around in game for the PCs to find.
With regard to the Chiral Melange
Yes, the Poison was massively expensive, only the House in control of Arrakis could hope to manufacture it on a useful scale. Indeed this was part of the beauty... it sends a signal about exactly who did this.
The plot side effect for my campaign; the Ordos have shorted the sale of Spice massively on the CHOAM market, in anticipation of it being revealed as dangerous, and the value of Spice crashing. The Emperor will be ruined and forced to deal with them cap in hand..... if only there was a renegade House willing to take them down before they can force the Emperor's hand.
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=188144
The two links in the first post are absolute GOLD.
60 pages of Adventure treatment! Including ideas for side quests, for a campaign entwined with the first Dune Novel. From a professional game authors treatment, to wit, the unprinted Wotc D20 Dune project.
The spice is flowing!!!
[DUNE D20] Partial, Original, Once Official Arrakis Adventure
I was clearing off my old Mac and came across something I thought I'd lost.
http://users.adelphia.net/~mattcolville/Dune.doc
http://users.adelphia.net/~mattcolville/Duneoutline.doc
It's an interesting snapshot, for me, of what my writing was like 5 years ago. It's a rough draft of one chapter, sorry. I don't think the whole thing was ever finished. The outline shows you what would have been done. I also have a chapter of Steve Long's work on the project, but I would not presume to put that up here without his permission.
WotC had done research about what players wanted from different settings. Apparently, with Dune, it was decided that the Heroes would be original characters playing a story in and amongst the action from the first novel, without being the main characters. Weird choice, I thought, but there you are.
Later, of course, I'd work on two Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Adventures, aimed at kids, sold in book stores, and I got the chance to do essentially the same thing but with the player playing the main characters.
http://web.archive.org/web/20050329232600/http://www.secrets-of-shuriken.com.au/temp/BG+Manual.pdf
http://www.roleplaynexus.org/~mithras/dune/
Someone has transcribed all the crunchy bits from the LUG Icon Dune system onto that webpage. Plenty of flavourful stuff there.
Enjoy.
Dual strike seems a little too punitive to be useful, especially at high levels, where the loss of attack modifiers on the primary weapon will not be compensated by the small additional damage from the secondary. Also, a -10 penalty to your only attack roll... that's a major "danger" sign right there. I think you might want to look in to modifying this in some way.
Assassin's code should really be part of the assassin's class progression. If, after all, Kanly protection is extended to all assassins (which I think it is) then this feat should not be "optional"
Athletics might be a little weak, I'm not sure. Perhaps reduce the bonus to +2 and combine with the endurance feat? In this case the sleeping in armor benefit might have to be removed from endurance.
Breath of life should have the Suk requirement, shouldn't it? More broadly though, I again think this should be a Suk class ability (unless I am misunderstanding your class system - last time I check the Rulbuk as a whole was a while back). Non-combat classes are already a big sacrifice for players to take on in most campaigns, so I don't think it's fair to force these intrepid types to expend feats to achieve full class functionality. The Suk medical feats are all cool, but they should be part of the class progression. Among other things, Pyretic conscience should NOT be optional for Suk's!
I like Cloak Dance a lot, it's quite innovative. However, I wonder if it might be a little overpowered, especially the full concealment option. Plus, shouldn't the use of it require a cape to be worn? Bearing in mind that I haven't read this part of the Dune books, but I am sceptical that a Holtzman shield could obscure your position.
The description for combat intuition is a little unclear. Is the bonus provided only to those opponents you have previously used sense motive on, or anyone you attacked in the previous round? Unless I missed something "narrow the results to a single category" doesn't mean much to me in that context - I think it needs more explanation. Can this feat's attack bonus be used against multiple opponents the same time?
Danger sense is good, but it is a bit weak for a second-tier feat. Maybe make it once per day, plus one per point of dexterity bonus? Especially since you already have +4 to your initiative, people need to be motivated to get *another* initiative feat.
Defensive strike is a good feat, but the description is a bit vague. Does it grant a free attack, or is it a bonus to attack actions that you may or may not make? Does the bonus apply to *all* attacks, or just one?
Why can't players take both improved critical and devastating critical for the same weapon? Given the steep requirements for both feats, it doesn't seem like it would be game changing (what's x2 to x3 at 13th level, eh?) Also I just don't see the in-game logic for this.
Double hit is a lot like dual strike, except only for attacks of opportunity. I'd merge the two.
Elusive dance looks quite powerful. Maybe change it to "designated target takes a -4 penalty to AAO" instead?
Flay is an interesting and twisted feat, but a bit skimpy when you compare ease of saving throw with the level and duration of the penalties. -2 for one round on attack rolls is pretty small penalty to pay for a saving throw that is in the 10-15 DC range. Also, the "special" section of this feat confused me.
Flick of the wrist is neat, but the dexterity requirements seem a tad high. Realistically, does it need to be that exclusive?
Force of Personality is cool.
Graceful edge is a cool name, but I think calling this feat "parry" would be a more accurate description
Hand of God is a good feat, but I think its name is at a mismatch... given the feat benefits the name should perhaps incorporate an adjective like wrathful or avenging or something.
Heroic surge is a really good feat, although I;m surprised that it has no requirements, given how inaccessible many less powerful feats are.
Hour of the Assassin should be a class benefit I think.
Intimidating strike is very well done. I'd maybe add in +2 base attack bonus or something, just so a shrimp with good intimidation can't intimidate without at least minimal weapon proficiency
Insightful reflexes makes no sense to me. I don;t think I've ever seen a "mind-affecting attack effect" which required a reflex save. That has got to be a typo, right?
I would change the name of Intuitive Attack to something more suggestive of prana bindu or martial arts. As things stand the name is a dead give away that it will be a "swap wisdom for attack rolls" feat. This is also a perfect chance to inject more Dune flavour!
Master Manipulator's second ability (Word Trap) needs a clearer description. It almost sounds like your target is *forced* to talk to you if his bluff check fails. Interesting ability though.
Melee evasion is extremely powerful, particularly in a shield environment.
Again, unless I misunderstand your class system, the mentat feats should probably be class abilities. Otherwise this is a strange penalty to impose on characters who choose a less combat-intensive class.
Mnemonic conditioning/eidetic memory should have just one name.
Noble Blood also refers to the feat as Noble Born. Also, it mentions fabulous wealth and educational opportunities, but the feat itself is only about action point modifiers. I think it would make sense to remove the "social" aspects of nobility from the description if the feat itself doesn't affect them.
I really like Pharmacopeia [sic] The idea of custom designing drugs to remove their side effects is a neat benefit, and is also suggestive of what else goes on in the Dune universe.
Profile seems a bit weak. I'd try to merge it with another social feat somehow (Minutae Observation perhaps?)
Prone attack could probably use a different name, maybe along the lines of a ground-based martial arts style or something, since its benefits go beyond just negating attack penalties.
Sense Weakness is EXTREMELY powerful. The equivalent to +5 damage is pretty crazy for the relatively small requirements. I would expect to see most characters fast tracking to this feat. I'd change the benefits to ignore DR equal to your intelligence modifier, max 5 points. This down scales the benefits appropriately and allows brainiac characters a way to compete with their muscle-bound counterparts.
Silencing Strike is an awkward name. Perhaps change to "Choking Strike" "Whispering Strike" or something else? Silencing just doesn't seem like a good word in this context.
Single blade style is a lot like graceful edge. You would probably want to either remove one of them or put them into some sort of two-tiered progression.
Spynetwork should be part of the Spymaster class progression. Given how NPC-focused and non-combatant that kind of class can be, forcing players to spend precious feat slots to activate class functionality isn't fair.
Stand Still is a weird name for a feat that is about forcing OTHER people to stand still. Unless the name is Dune canon, I think this needs to be renamed. Also, I dont think it needs a "normal" section.
I've always believed toughness needs to get better over time. So 3 the first time, 4 the second, 5 the third, etc. 3 hit points just doesn't really mean the same thing at level 5, whereas a lot of other feats scale with levels, either through tiers, or because their benefits aren't affect by level-based AC/hp/damage changes.
Track should include an entry on sand tracking (is it easier, harder or the same diffuclty as snow and ice?) and possibly also something about windspeed/sandstorms.
I think two-weapon defense should allow natural weapons and unarmed attacks capable of dealing lethal damage to count as weapons. Just seems fair.
Two weapon rend is cool.
Vexing flanker seems a little weak. Depends on group coordination I guess.
Vital strike is way too good for its minimal requirements. +D4 damage per round is nothing to sneeze at, particularly in a shield fighting situation. Also, if the attack in total fails to penetrate armor, but with the bonus damage it does, is this enough to deliver poison/activate damage-based special effects/feats? This needs to be clarified.
Shouldn't voice be a class ability for the BG?
Does the Weapon Supremacy bonus to AC apply only when you wield the weapon in question or at all times? What kind of bonus is it? Armor, shield, insight? This is an interesing and powerful feat, but I think it could use a level reduction, say to 15 or 16, since it will not be game-breaking at that level and also since few campaigns reach level 18.
I think willing deformity should give +1 reputation as well, since it makes you very recognizeable and provides instant street cred. I mean, wouldn't *you* be impressed by someone who dipped their face in acid to prove a point?
For the deformity feats, is it really necessary to create a new class of bonuses (deformity)? Wouldn't it make more sense to have them in the enhancement category (I think)
I vote for a fibre-glass skin deformity feat, which inflicts damage on anyone who grapples and adds +1 to unarmed damage attacks!
-Bimanual is a good synonym for ambidexterous. Helps distinguish Dune games and sets the atmosphere (to me at least it seems more Herbert-like)
-The advantage/disadvantage system should be incorporated into character creation as "anti-feats" which are negative but give you a free feat.
-Twisted conditioning is awesome and should be a short part of every rulebook, particularly since Dune games emphasize faction alleigance.
-The file mentions Shield Dissemblers... what are those?
-The combat section is a useful source of information for naming combat maneuvers and perhaps working out the mechanics of them too.
A lot of the imagined balance for the feats, and the choice of names, comes from the fact they are often official feats or elements of official rules from a thousand sourcebooks made into feats.
This is a (very long) commentary with suggestions on the Rulbuk feat section. I hope it's useful arta.
Dual strike seems a little too punitive to be useful, especially at high levels, where the loss of attack modifiers on the primary weapon will not be compensated by the small additional damage from the secondary. Also, a -10 penalty to your only attack roll... that's a major "danger" sign right there. I think you might want to look in to modifying this in some way.
Like many of the Feats we are discussing Dual Strike was cribbed in it's entirety from another WOTC Source. I agree Dual Strike seems weak and I haven't seen a rush for players or even signature NPC swordmasters take it. However, coupled with Action Points which can affect a single dice roll, this makes a single Dice Roll at -4 very feasible. It also automatically triggers Two Weapon Rend. It also allows a payload of two differing poisons. It makes a massive strike in the partial surprise round (with quickdraw) possible, or move and strike, as TWF normally only can happen in a Full Round.
However I agree the feat is expensive and only really works in concert with other feats. Perhaps I will combine it with Double Hit. However with Agile Riposte in the game, AoOs for being missed in combat are a constant, and so Double Hit is very powerful.
Assassin's code should really be part of the assassin's class progression. If, after all, Kanly protection is extended to all assassins (which I think it is) then this feat should not be "optional"
There is no Assassin Class the only Strong,Tough, Dedicated of d20 Modern.
Depending on your Archetype at Character Generation, this is a template for which you get extra feats that reflect your chosen career. These are the pre-requisites for further themed Assassin Feats. It allows you to be an Assassin with the base training but then explore the idea your own way... also with the Feats this way, essentially modular, I can assign, them to PC/NPCs who are Mentat Assassins. Noble Swordmasters... that don't fit the basic Archetypes.
Athletics might be a little weak, I'm not sure. Perhaps reduce the bonus to +2 and combine with the endurance feat? In this case the sleeping in armor benefit might have to be removed from endurance.
This used to be +2 / +2 but as I combined Swim/Climb/Jump into Athletics this feat reflects the new skill list. Its basically Skill Focus. I grant it as a bonus feat to certain Houses, so it is handy to retain in it's current form.
Breath of life should have the Suk requirement, shouldn't it? More broadly though, I again think this should be a Suk class ability (unless I am misunderstanding your class system - last time I check the Rulbuk as a whole was a while back). Non-combat classes are already a big sacrifice for players to take on in most campaigns, so I don't think it's fair to force these intrepid types to expend feats to achieve full class functionality. The Suk medical feats are all cool, but they should be part of the class progression. Among other things, Pyretic conscience should NOT be optional for Suk's!
Indeed it's an ovesight. The Suk has no love in my RULBUK as it has been the province of NPCs. This feat should belong to them alone. It has also experienced no playtesting. The Breath of Life is cribbed from a D20 Modern advanced class I think.
I like Cloak Dance a lot, it's quite innovative. However, I wonder if it might be a little overpowered, especially the full concealment option. Plus, shouldn't the use of it require a cape to be worn? Bearing in mind that I haven't read this part of the Dune books, but I am sceptical that a Holtzman shield could obscure your position.
Cloak Dance is in the SRD, can't claim any credit for it. The Corrida Escuda, the Bullfight figures prominently in my game. This feat was added specifically to allow it. It also counters the very powerful Sneak Attack of Assassins, as they cannot Sneak attack (precision damage) against concealment. One of the overriding philosophies in adding feats was having a counter for everything, and that every style of combat be feasible. Blind Fight offers a chance to reroll this misschance so it has a counter.
The description for combat intuition is a little unclear. Is the bonus provided only to those opponents you have previously used sense motive on, or anyone you attacked in the previous round? Unless I missed something "narrow the results to a single category" doesn't mean much to me in that context - I think it needs more explanation. Can this feat's attack bonus be used against multiple opponents the same time?
Whoever attacked you the previous round. The feat is cribbed from somewhere else... I think there is a missing table
Danger sense is good, but it is a bit weak for a second-tier feat. Maybe make it once per day, plus one per point of dexterity bonus? Especially since you already have +4 to your initiative, people need to be motivated to get *another* initiative feat.
This reroll nearly guarantees winning initiative.. it has been a godsend for my Assassin NPCs and Bodyguard NPCs. I may consider changing it to an action point rather than the limiting once per day. However combats rarely occure more than once per session.day.
Defensive strike is a good feat, but the description is a bit vague. Does it grant a free attack, or is it a bonus to attack actions that you may or may not make? Does the bonus apply to *all* attacks, or just one?
+4 to hit for the entirety of the next round. There is a lot of defensive fighting in my campaign!
Why can't players take both improved critical and devastating critical for the same weapon? Given the steep requirements for both feats, it doesn't seem like it would be game changing (what's x2 to x3 at 13th level, eh?) Also I just don't see the in-game logic for this.
Devasting Critical comes from the OA Kensai talent where they can raise the multiplier only a few times per day. I was going to make this another action point, but felt just making the two exclusive worked better for reigning in power. Combined with the Hand of God which auto crits, having a multi raising power can quickly get out of hand.
Double hit is a lot like dual strike, except only for attacks of opportunity. I'd merge the two.
Noted above.
Elusive dance looks quite powerful. Maybe change it to "designated target takes a -4 penalty to AAO" instead?
Yeah - in the game the feat is incredible.. you would be a fool not to take this. However I needed a trump to the fighting style of Full Defence / Deft Opportunist / Active Shield Defence. Again it is cribbed from another official source!
Flay is an interesting and twisted feat, but a bit skimpy when you compare ease of saving throw with the level and duration of the penalties. -2 for one round on attack rolls is pretty small penalty to pay for a saving throw that is in the 10-15 DC range. Also, the "special" section of this feat confused me.
It is for free, every time you use Power Attack this just happens, relentlessly. It is a signature feat rather than an actual powerful feat, though. It is perfect for the Harkonnens.
In my campaign Armour Gives DR, so Flay would fail quite often. However Criticals (and Threatened Criticals in my tweak) ignoe DR. So even though you are wearing armour a Critical still forces a save.
Flick of the wrist is neat, but the dexterity requirements seem a tad high. Realistically, does it need to be that exclusive?
I use a 25 point buy, so maybe 15 would make more sense. However in a massive damage system , the 1d6 from a Sneak Attack, which this allows can be fatal. This is powerful, but quite common amongst assassins.
Force of Personality is cool.
Graceful edge is a cool name, but I think calling this feat "parry" would be a more accurate description
From Dungeon Magazine. Allows the Sabre to be effective. In the RULBUK you cannot use STR to hit against shileds, but you could not finesse the sabre, relegating it. With this the single weapon stance sabre becomes possible, at the expense of a feat. However it is almost too good!
Hand of God is a good feat, but I think its name is at a mismatch... given the feat benefits the name should perhaps incorporate an adjective like wrathful or avenging or something.
MSRD Feat Power Critical. The name comes from an mentor NPC who employed this style in the Corrida for the single strike estocada that kills the bull. THe name kinda stuck.
Heroic surge is a really good feat, although I;m surprised that it has no requirements, given how inaccessible many less powerful feats are.
I so wish I had never left this in. Straight D20 Modern feat... too ugly for words. A single extra attack at no penalty? Makes a mockery of Dual Strike?
Hour of the Assassin should be a class benefit I think.
It essentially is, but not all assassins take this route.
Intimidating strike is very well done. I'd maybe add in +2 base attack bonus or something, just so a shrimp with good intimidation can't intimidate without at least minimal weapon proficiency
This is fantastically powerful when used before Frightful Presence! As fear states stack I think it is straight out of the PHBII
Insightful reflexes makes no sense to me. I don;t think I've ever seen a "mind-affecting attack effect" which required a reflex save. That has got to be a typo, right?
Amended!
I would change the name of Intuitive Attack to something more suggestive of prana bindu or martial arts. As things stand the name is a dead give away that it will be a "swap wisdom for attack rolls" feat. This is also a perfect chance to inject more Dune flavour!
Book of Exalted Deeds, yeah - I can do window dressing later, however I am running a game and a lot of the feats are identified now, and so changing up would be an annoyance for lots of NPCS... when i do a second edition however
Master Manipulator's second ability (Word Trap) needs a clearer description. It almost sounds like your target is *forced* to talk to you if his bluff check fails. Interesting ability though.
PHBII steal... and something for the Spymaster character.
Melee evasion is extremely powerful, particularly in a shield environment.
Re-reading the feat i notice you have to be Fighting Defensively to use it. As such your AC will likely already exceed d20 + BAB. Only with action points does it make any sense, it allows a desperate last gasp save versus damage.
Again, unless I misunderstand your class system, the mentat feats should probably be class abilities. Otherwise this is a strange penalty to impose on characters who choose a less combat-intensive class.
This is an element of my 'classless class' system again. There are generic classes for building your version of the Mentat; Strong, Intelligent, Fast, Charismatic.
Mnemonic conditioning/eidetic memory should have just one name.
Name is a hangover from the LUG Dune system I used before. Inertia keeps it there now.
Noble Blood also refers to the feat as Noble Born. Also, it mentions fabulous wealth and educational opportunities, but the feat itself is only about action point modifiers. I think it would make sense to remove the "social" aspects of nobility from the description if the feat itself doesn't affect them.
This comes from shoe horning classes into feats that allows the reconstruction of classes.
I really like Pharmacopeia [sic] The idea of custom designing drugs to remove their side effects is a neat benefit, and is also suggestive of what else goes on in the Dune universe.
This really needs its own section... but with no Suk as a PC I have been able to fudge it behind the screen.
Profile seems a bit weak. I'd try to merge it with another social feat somehow (Minutae Observation perhaps?)
Stolen from D20 modern Inverstigator Prestige Class. Quite useful in game.
Prone attack could probably use a different name, maybe along the lines of a ground-based martial arts style or something, since its benefits go beyond just negating attack penalties.
Sense Weakness is EXTREMELY powerful. The equivalent to +5 damage is pretty crazy for the relatively small requirements. I would expect to see most characters fast tracking to this feat. I'd change the benefits to ignore DR equal to your intelligence modifier, max 5 points. This down scales the benefits appropriately and allows brainiac characters a way to compete with their muscle-bound counterparts.
This is a feat cribbed from elsewhere. The RULBUK completely de-emphasised armour. However it was a vaild path for some and this made knife fighters irrelevant. As we see in the films and books, knife and rapier fighting is extremely effective. This feat is not cheap (though the other two feats are quite common) and allows a fighter with a simple knife to retain their effectiveness. It falls within the philisophy of making every style potentially effective. I err against armour here on purpose.
Silencing Strike is an awkward name. Perhaps change to "Choking Strike" "Whispering Strike" or something else? Silencing just doesn't seem like a good word in this context.
I should just remove this feat and leave the rules in with the garotte rather than making a new feat.
Single blade style is a lot like graceful edge. You would probably want to either remove one of them or put them into some sort of two-tiered progression.
Graceful Edge is for Medium weapons, single blade style works with everything one handed. It is a solid feat for everyone. Graceful edge should perhaps lose it's AC bonus... as it is top drawer already.
Spynetwork should be part of the Spymaster class progression. Given how NPC-focused and non-combatant that kind of class can be, forcing players to spend precious feat slots to activate class functionality isn't fair.
Given to Spymasters at first level.
Stand Still is a weird name for a feat that is about forcing OTHER people to stand still. Unless the name is Dune canon, I think this needs to be renamed. Also, I dont think it needs a "normal" section.
This is part of the set of feats (Cloak Dance, Hand of God) that were added to reflect elements of the fighting style needed in Bullfighting. It is also a standard feat from somewhere!
I've always believed toughness needs to get better over time. So 3 the first time, 4 the second, 5 the third, etc. 3 hit points just doesn't really mean the same thing at level 5, whereas a lot of other feats scale with levels, either through tiers, or because their benefits aren't affect by level-based AC/hp/damage changes.
I might swap this out for improved Toughness +1 per level(??)
Track should include an entry on sand tracking (is it easier, harder or the same diffuclty as snow and ice?) and possibly also something about windspeed/sandstorms.
Cribbed from the SRD , and never actually used so far in game.
I think two-weapon defense should allow natural weapons and unarmed attacks capable of dealing lethal damage to count as weapons. Just seems fair.
Single Weapon Style already covers weapon and empty hand. Defensive Martial Arts is a straight +2 and needs no additional boost to Martial Artist AC.
Two weapon rend is cool.
Not mine! Boo Hoo!
Vexing flanker seems a little weak. Depends on group coordination I guess.
Flanking happens a lot!
Vital strike is way too good for its minimal requirements. +D4 damage per round is nothing to sneeze at, particularly in a shield fighting situation. Also, if the attack in total fails to penetrate armor, but with the bonus damage it does, is this enough to deliver poison/activate damage-based special effects/feats? This needs to be clarified.
The RULBUK clarifies that. Poisons are not delivered. Sneak attacks and Vital strikes are... energy attacks are.
Shouldn't voice be a class ability for the BG?
It basically works out that way.
Does the Weapon Supremacy bonus to AC apply only when you wield the weapon in question or at all times? What kind of bonus is it? Armor, shield, insight? This is an interesing and powerful feat, but I think it could use a level reduction, say to 15 or 16, since it will not be game-breaking at that level and also since few campaigns reach level 18.
We have reached 14th in 3 years. However I dont expect any PC to reach 18th! It is in for completeness and cribbed from the PHBII.
I think willing deformity should give +1 reputation as well, since it makes you very recognizeable and provides instant street cred. I mean, wouldn't *you* be impressed by someone who dipped their face in acid to prove a point?
For the deformity feats, is it really necessary to create a new class of bonuses (deformity)? Wouldn't it make more sense to have them in the enhancement category (I think). I vote for a fibre-glass skin deformity feat, which inflicts damage on anyone who grapples and adds +1 to unarmed damage attacks!
The deformity feats are cribbed from the Book of Vile Darkness, and were added to alllow the Baron Harkonnen without having to just retreat to DM fiat. It also means it is open to the players! Euugh!
I am caught between keeping D20 feats with standard names, and adding flavour. Eventually it is numbers on a page... if I ever did a second edition I would ad a better naming convention to my feats.
-The advantage/disadvantage system should be incorporated into character creation as "anti-feats" which are negative but give you a free feat.
I started my game using that rule system, my current PCs have the background feats they took under that system. Twisted Conditioning, Sapho Addiciton, Genetic Eunuch, Sleeper Agent... it has added wonders to my campaign... doing it like Unearthed Arcana flaws would be nice.
-Twisted conditioning is awesome and should be a short part of every rulebook, particularly since Dune games emphasize faction alleigance.
Noted above.. it has addeda massive depth.
-The file mentions Shield Dissemblers... what are those?
Shield dissemblers allow you to take down a pentashielded Pru door, it is a lock pick for a servok lock essentially. Not a combat item.
-The combat section is a useful source of information for naming combat maneuvers and perhaps working out the mechanics of them too.
Agreed... it is a wonderfully flavourful system.. however combat takes about a week. Tried and dismissed. It was becuase of this I made my d20 Conversion. Aiming for the flavour of the LUG Dune but with friendly rules!
For the moment I was crafting capstone feat for the Mentats - since we have the Mentat section of the campaign coming up. I thought about the Fortune's Favour style feats that allow rerolls. A mentat evaluates many courses of action, and so in a pinch could be allowed to reroll, already having dismissed the current roll as a simulation... this lead to this feat, which completely grabs the reroll idea and changes it into something more exciting.
Perfect Mentat Awareness
For Mentats Rhajia is the song of the sirens. It is the total immersion of the Mentat in the inferential consciousness. Playt called it the "Movement of Infinity," and regarded it as the final evolution of the Order, a breaking of the chains of servitude to practicality; but Albans thought it a death-trap: only 30 percent of Mentats who enter rhajia 'reawaken. The experience of the rhajia provides unconscious insight. This allows gestalten spasms of pure insight outwith the normal debilitating Mentat Trance.
Prerequisite Greater Mentat Awareness, Rhajia
Benefit As a move action, and at the cost of an action point a Mentat can project several rounds into the future. Rounds equal to their Int bonus. A structured* and increasingly difficult Mentat Computation is required for each successive round. As this is a rushed use of Computation, it incurs a -10 penalty.
These computed moments are enacted by the GM and players as if real. Depending on the success of the Mentat Computation hidden motives may even be revealed, or false motives assigned.
Once the rounds have elapsed play resumes normally, however the Mentat now has uncanny insight. In a combat situation, this awareness provides strong guidance in what action the Mentat might take and offers a +2 insight bonus to attacks, AC, skill checks and all saves. This insight bonus is lost whenever you would lose a Dexterity bonus to AC.
Normal Mentat Computation and Projection generally takes at least 1 full minute (10 consecutive full-round actions). A rushed Projection or Computation can be made as a full-round action, but you take a -10 penalty on the check.
Special This effort drains the mental reserves of the Mentat. They cannot attempt Perfect Awareness again till X hours have passed, where X is the number of Computed rounds.
* structured skill checks are in UA and are in the SRD.
The Rhajia is in the Dune Encyclopaedia, and is a roleplaying requirement.
Rhajia
For Mentats Rhajia is the song
of the sirens. It is the total immersion
of the Mentat in the inferential
consciousness, and even Albans and
Playt, usually so like-minded,
disagreed on its nature. Playt called it
the "Movement of Infinity," and
regarded it as the final stage of the
Order, a breaking of the chains of
servitude to practicality; but Albans
thought it a death-trap: only 30 percent
of Mentats who enter rhajia
"reawakened"; the other 70 percent
become comatose and died. Those
surviving reported either no memories
whatsoever or the most richly
satisfying intellectual experience of
their lives. Rumor had it that older
Mentats near death would seek rhajia
as "The most pleasant passing" a
human could be blessed with.
I laughed so hard... whew.
Do mentats have any special abilities as gholas? I recall that only very important people became gholas and that the Tleilaxu had harvested DNA from every one of them, from Muad'Dib on down so that they could create backup clones.
But I know Duncan and a few others kept returning as gholas, and though it took all those years for new bodies to mature and for the witches to reboot their brainpower, it always seemed like they had gained something from each incarnation.
Duncan, if I remember right, mentioned at one time that the Tyrant killed him repeatedly just because making a new ghola was so easy, but in the end, Duncan had benefitted from being reborn so many times.
I dunno, maybe I'm not very clear on the mentat-ghola relationship.
Ghola is of likely related to the term ghoul which was first coined in 1786, in Beckford's "Vathek," from the Arabic. 'ghul', an evil spirit that robs graves and feeds on corpses, from 'ghala' "he seized."
The Gholas in the Herbert's Dune books are initially the re-animated flesh of the dead. The first Idaho is the true flesh, recovered from the battlefield of Arrakis by the Sardaukar. It amuses the Tleilaxu in the case of the first Duncan to give him unnecessary Ixian eyes, and train him as a Zensufi Mystic. He retains the reflexes of one of the greatest ever swordmasters, but he is no god like being.
Later Gholas are clones requiring merely DNA. No Duncan till the final one had any memories of his previous incarnation, except as Atreidies servant in Shaddam's reign. For the final Duncan there is much mystery in his genetic code, he has access to every ghola incarnation, inclusing some who were Mentats. However the true ghola legend is the Bashar, Miles Teg. His bilities spring from an encounter with an Ixian T-Probe and his Atreidies ancestry rather than his ghola status, or Mentat status.
However, whilst the term is not synonomous with supreme power, for optimisers, the idea of a Tleilaxu Ghola, a being crafted to the optimum is not a great leap. They were able to create a Quizatz Haderach of their own using their DNA manipulation technology. However he killed himself rather than be used.
They were able to create a Quizatz Haderach of their own using their DNA manipulation technology. However he killed himself rather than be used.
Aha! A solution to powergamers!
A Scenario
DM: You kill yourself.
Munchkin: But - but -
DM: Your character would rather kill himself than be such a destructive force in the world.
Munchkin: How -
DM: *rolls eyes* I rolled a... will save. And you succeeded.
Munchkin: ...darn my Divine Grace...
DM: You kill yourself.
Munchkin: But - but -
DM: Your character would rather kill himself than be such a destructive force in the world.
Munchkin: How -
DM: *rolls eyes* I rolled a... will save. And you succeeded.
Munchkin: ...darn my Divine Grace...
Quiet here!
Some random thoughts... 4th Edition looks like D20 modern (talent trees for classes rather than fixed class skills) and no Prestige classes, just like my Dune d20 :P . Obviously great minds think alike, or fools seldom differ.
CONTENT
I have added capstone abilities for the Mentats, and adjusted all the previous abilities to reflect the current metaphor for Mentats in the D20 system.
Mentat Awareness (updated in 1.20)
Hypothesists are trained to extrapolate from information to alternative explanations of the causes or the effects of that information.
Prerequisite Mentat
Benefit Required to compute 1st Order Mentat Projections & Mentat Computations.
In a combat situation, this awareness provides insight. A Mentat may apply his Intelligence bonus to AC instead of his Dexterity in a fashion similar to the Dodge Feat. During the character’s action, the character designates an opponent and receives a +INT dodge bonus to Defence against any subsequent attacks from that opponent. The character can select a new opponent on any action. Any situation that would deny the Mentat his Dexterity bonus to Defence also denies the Intelligence bonus.
Mentat Awareness, Greater (updated in 1.20)
Mentats of the Major Order abandon the naïveté so common in the Minor Orders
Prerequisite Mentat Awareness, Mentat Projection 8 Ranks
Benefit Required to make 2nd Order Mentat Projections & Mentat Computations.
In a combat situation, this awareness provides insight. A Mentat may apply his Intelligence instead of his Dexterity bonus to his Defence against all opponents. Any situation that would deny the Mentat her Dexterity bonus to Defence also denies the Intelligence bonus.
Perfect Mentat Awareness (updated in 1.20)
For Mentats Rhajia is the song of the sirens. It is the total immersion of the Mentat in the inferential consciousness. Playt called it the "Movement of Infinity," and regarded it as the final evolution of the Order, a breaking of the chains of servitude to practicality; but Albans thought it a death-trap: only 30 percent of Mentats who enter rhajia reawaken. The rhajia provides unconscious insight into the 'Movement of Infinity'. This allows gestalten spasms of pure insight outwith the normal debilitating Mentat Trance.
Prerequisite Greater Mentat Awareness, Rhajia
Benefit As a move action, and at the cost of an action point a Mentat can project several rounds into the future. Rounds equal to the Int bonus. A structured and increasingly difficult Mentat Computation is required for each successive round. As this is a rushed use of Computation, it incurs a -10 penalty.
These computed moments are enacted by the GM and players as if real. Depending on the success of the Mentat Computation hidden motives may even be revealed, or false motives assigned.
Once the computed rounds have elapsed play resumes normally, however the Mentat now has uncanny insight into the following rounds, and may act accordingly.
In a combat situation, this awareness provides strong guidance in what action the Mentat might take and offers a +2 insight bonus to attacks, AC, skill checks and all saves. This insight bonus is lost whenever you would lose a Dexterity bonus to AC.
Normal Mentat Computation and Projection generally takes at least 1 full minute (10 consecutive full-round actions). A rushed Projection or Computation can be made as a full-round action, but you take a -10 penalty on the check.
Special This effort drains the mental reserves of the Mentat. They cannot attempt Perfect Awareness again till X hours have passed, where X is the number of Computed rounds.
Mnemonic Conditioning (Eidetic Memory updated in 1.20)
The character remembers everything he perceives, easily remembers names, faces, facts read in books or smells from his homeworld. Characters can use Mnemonic Conditioning to memorize and recount experiences with complete accuracy.
Benefit This situational awareness allows those with Eidetic Memory to self correct as they perform an action. Once per day you may reroll one skill check, attack roll, or saving throw you have just made. You must keep the new result.
Special Only at character generation.
And for completeness.
The Mentat Skills...
Mentat Computation (Int) Trained Only
Computation enables a Mentat to forecast future actions, events or results based on accumulated data including motives, facts, actions & events. Whether predicting behaviour stemming from identified motives or inducing probable outcomes for intended courses of action. Mentat Computation extrapolates future consequences from a wealth of factual data, and represents the ultimate science of cause and effect.
Successful Mentat Computation Tests enable the derivation of hidden links contained within the current scene. Allowing the Mentat to glean connected facts and motivations from future scenes. The actors and the current situation define a scene. Where actors are those identified as those with relevance to the outcome of the scene.
The GM should ask the player for at least 3 anchors for the Computation, depending on the veracity and pertinence of these anchors the DC will be adjusted. Generic information provides no bonus (assuming it is accurate), whereas knowledge of specific actor’s motivation provides a bonus. False information provides dangerously flawed Computations, but these will never be immediately obvious. Ignorance of additional actors can also ruin Computations.
DC Prediction
20 Glean facts relevant to the immediate future of actors in the current scene.
25 Predict future actions of actors based on the current scene.
30 Deduce the motivations of an organization based on the behaviour of a single member in the current scene.
35 Forecast the future behaviour of an actor in a future scene.
40 Accurately divine an actor’s interactions based on previous predictions. A so called Second Order Computation.
Mentat Projection (Int) Trained Only
Projection allows Mentats to assimilate information about the current scene, by deducing facts and ascertaining motives based on accepted and verified motives, or substantive theories. With this skill a Mentat can analyse any datum sorting fact from fiction through inter-relating evidentiary information. Thus forming proximity hypotheses, allowing the construction of elaborate logic matrices illuminating missing elements, invisible plot lines and probable explanations.
At any point during a scene a Mentat may attempt to uncover a hidden fact or underlying motivation presented within the scene. The skill test is not blind – the player must declare what manner of information they are attempting to discern, in addition to presenting at least 3 anchors. The nature of these anchors modifies the difficulty as noted in the Computation skill.
DC Information
20 Basic information about the scene. Why this locale was chosen, why these actors et cetera
25 Concealed information about this scene. Who is planning violence?
30 Obscure information about threads that directly link to this scene.
35 Related threads linked to this scene.
40 Related threads independent of this scene.
Special Mentat Computation and Projection generally takes at least 1 full minute (10 consecutive full-round actions). A rushed Projection or Computation can be made as a full-round action, but you take a -10 penalty on the check.
Um... thanks! Check message #703. Up a little ways...
It was a good time, and DuneCon was definitely an event. I'm revising more things, but since I've gotten exactly ZERO response to my soliciting players for a d20 DUNE game, I'm currently running a Star Wars game for the guys at work, and a Cyberpunk game for my roommate.
Also, I just picked up Road To Dune. Interesting... In the end, though, I can see why most of that stuff was edited. Oh, and the Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson stuff still sucked.
DuneCon*2006 was a lot of fun, and the included scenario will be a gas once it's ironed out. One of my favorite rules we worked on was the Holtzman Shield Fighting Rules (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holtzman_effect), which I will outline here. Not being the big man himself, I cannot say one way or the other that this will be the final draft, but it's a taste of the things we worked on. (As a side note, DuneCon*2007 may be held in December in Southern California, for those interested.)
Without further ado, Ryan and Steve's Holtzman Shield Fighting Rules version Alpha-Zero-One:
In regular combat there are three primary steps to an attack:
1. Roll your attack.
2. Compare your attack against the targets defense.
3. If your roll equals or beats their defense, roll damage.
In a Holtzman shield duel there are four primary steps to an attack:
1. Roll your attack and damage.
2. Subtract your potential damage from your attack roll.
3. Compare your attack against the targets defense.
4. If your roll equals or beats their defense it is an automatic critical, roll damage again and total the results.
In the short time we playtested this, it seemed to work out well. One option we toyed with was simply automatic critical threats, but both that and taking away automatic anythings led to long fights. Remember: Criticals go straight to Wound Points! (Yes, this has the effect of "combining" the doubling and straight-to-WP versions of crits, but it seemed to work when we tried it. When you're shield-fighting your likely using some sort of 1d4 knife, and I don't see getting into a shield fight without a Con of 10 or greater, so this allows an average of about two hits needed, one if the blade is poisoned.)
Once again, I can't guarantee this is going to be Steve-o's final say, but I had a lot of fun working it out. If you get a chance to try it out, let us know.
Ryan-o
(P.S. I have officially finished the book and digested it, and now feel I am qualified to speak on it. My only issue is, why didn't someone make me listen to they're suggestions of reading it before I was 30.)
Holtzman Shield Fighting Rules (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holtzman_effect), which I will outline here. Not being the big man himself, I cannot say one way or the other that this will be the final draft, but it's a taste of the things we worked on. (As a side note,
Without further ado, Ryan and Steve's Holtzman Shield Fighting Rules version Alpha-Zero-One:
In a Holtzman shield duel there are four primary steps to an attack:
1. Roll your attack and damage.
2. Subtract your potential damage from your attack roll.
3. Compare your attack against the targets defense.
4. If your roll equals or beats their defense it is an automatic critical, roll damage again and total the results.
In the short time we playtested this, it seemed to work out well. One option we toyed with was simply automatic critical threats, but both that and taking away automatic anythings led to long fights. Remember: Criticals go straight to Wound Points! (Yes, this has the effect of "combining" the doubling and straight-to-WP versions of crits, but it seemed to work when we tried it. When you're shield-fighting your likely using some sort of 1d4 knife, and I don't see getting into a shield fight without a Con of 10 or greater, so this allows an average of about two hits needed, one if the blade is poisoned.)
Ryan-o
Hello!
Glancing at your rules, this still leaves STR and CON fighters trumping over acrobatic grace. Assuming potential damage is the Weapon + STR bonus. (If it is just Weapon then this is overly optimistic!)
STR 18 versus DEX 18 (+Finesse) all other stats 10.
STR18
Gauntlet 1d2 +4 STR damage, -6 to hit, +4 to hit from STR
-2 to hit, 5.5 damage. 11 on a Critical
DEX18
Dagger 1-4, -4 to hit, +4 Finesse,
evens to hit, 2.5 average damage, one feat down. 5 on a Critical
DEX18
or with a shortsword (kindjal/rapier et cetera)
dmg 1-6, -6 to hit, +4 finesse
-2 to hit, 3.5 average damage, one feat down 7 on a Critical.
I almost like your method, it addresses STR, when we believe DEX should dominate in a Holtzmann Shielded world. Unfortunately when you drop the attack roll by potential damage, finesse suffers. Both DEX and STR suffer the penalty on the base weapon, but STR allows you to set a massive floor on the minimum damage. Therefore STR (and CON) fighters will win.
The way around this, is not to make a penalty to damage equal to the STR bonus to damage. Just ignore STR to hit against shields. Then finesse becomes the only route to being able to strike better (+ intuitive attack for WIS and fists).
STR 18 versus DEX 18 (+Finesse) all other stats 10. Now just ignoring STR to hit.
STR18
Gauntlet 1d2 +4 STR damage, -6 to hit, +4 to hit from STR
+0 to hit, 5.5 damage. 11 on a Critical
DEX18
Dagger 1-4, +4 Finesse,
+4 to hit!, 2.5 average damage, one feat down. 5 on a Critical
DEX18
or with a shortsword (kindjal/rapier et cetera)
dmg 1-6, -6 to hit, +4 finesse
+4 to hit, 3.5 average damage, one feat down 7 on a Critical.
Ignoring STR to hit also obeys the KISS principle, removing any additional calculation.
Glad to see the thread is alive though! Looking forward to a little discussion.
How is this Potential Damage affected by damage from skill; Specialisation, Sneak Attacks, Mastercraft weapons? They obviously shouldn't make it harder to hit? What about Power Attack, and the damage increase from wielding a weapon two handed?
Hello!
Glancing at your rules, this still leaves STR and CON fighters trumping over acrobatic grace. Assuming potential damage is the Weapon + STR bonus. (If it is just Weapon then this is overly optimistic!)
STR 18 versus DEX 18 (+Finesse) all other stats 10.
STR18
Gauntlet 1d2 +4 STR damage, -6 to hit, +4 to hit from STR
-2 to hit, 5.5 damage. 11 on a Critical
DEX18
Dagger 1-4, -4 to hit, +4 Finesse,
evens to hit, 2.5 average damage, one feat down. 5 on a Critical
DEX18
or with a shortsword (kindjal/rapier et cetera)
dmg 1-6, -6 to hit, +4 finesse
-2 to hit, 3.5 average damage, one feat down 7 on a Critical.
I almost like your method, it addresses STR, when we believe DEX should dominate in a Holtzmann Shielded world. Unfortunately when you drop the attack roll by potential damage, finesse suffers. Both DEX and STR suffer the penalty on the base weapon, but STR allows you to set a massive floor on the minimum damage. Therefore STR (and CON) fighters will win.
The way around this, is not to make a penalty to damage equal to the STR bonus to damage. Just ignore STR to hit against shields. Then finesse becomes the only route to being able to strike better (+ intuitive attack for WIS and fists).
STR 18 versus DEX 18 (+Finesse) all other stats 10. Now just ignoring STR to hit.
STR18
Gauntlet 1d2 +4 STR damage, -6 to hit, +4 to hit from STR
+0 to hit, 5.5 damage. 11 on a Critical
DEX18
Dagger 1-4, +4 Finesse,
+4 to hit!, 2.5 average damage, one feat down. 5 on a Critical
DEX18
or with a shortsword (kindjal/rapier et cetera)
dmg 1-6, -6 to hit, +4 finesse
+4 to hit, 3.5 average damage, one feat down 7 on a Critical.
Ignoring STR to hit also obeys the KISS principle, removing any additional calculation.
Glad to see the thread is alive though! Looking forward to a little discussion.
How is this Potential Damage affected by damage from skill; Specialisation, Sneak Attacks, Mastercraft weapons? They obviously shouldn't make it harder to hit? What about Power Attack, and the damage increase from wielding a weapon two handed?
Very good points Artaxerxes! And thank you for all that math! I'll do my best to explain my philosophy from approximately a year ago. By the way, one of Steve-o's problems with this system is precisely something you mentioned: the KISS principle. Although I think it's easier than our original shield fighting system that involved Feats and feinting and so on. I'll let him go into his opinions on that if he wants.
As for me, it's a philosophy thing. I think you're right, that everything being equal DEX fighters should rule the ring. However, my viewpoint is that this system encourages as balanced a build as was originally intended by WotC. Meaning it would discourage "min-maxing". Any fighter should have a high CON for Hit/Vitality/Wound Points, a high DEX for Defense, and a high STR for attack/damage. Unfortunately the system inherently penalizes the swashbuckler. In my opinion, this is more of an unfortunate side-effect of the game itself and its hack-and-slash roots. In a way, I feel we're bending the rules now, instead of breaking them as before. In this way, you'll still need a high DEX to avoid your opponent.
Something I didn't understand though:
Assuming potential damage is the Weapon + STR bonus. (If it is just Weapon then this is overly optimistic!)
What did you mean there?
Also, if I recall correctly, there was some sort of assumption on my part that there would be a base feat needed to even enter a Holtzman shield duel, and that this feat would include some of the modifiers to compensate for some of the skill damage modifiers out there. Other than that, I don't know.
Once again, this is just a personal opinion and how I play. However, what I'd really like to know is which side others are on, or to put a finer point on it, if anyone else can see my point of view and/or agree with it.
Something I didn't understand though:
What did you mean there?
Also, if I recall correctly, there was some sort of assumption on my part that there would be a base feat needed to even enter a Holtzman shield duel, and that this feat would include some of the modifiers to compensate for some of the skill damage modifiers out there. Other than that, I don't know.
Once again, this is just a personal opinion and how I play. However, what I'd really like to know is which side others are on, or to put a finer point on it, if anyone else can see my point of view and/or agree with it.
If the penalty to hit = STR damage bonus + MAX Weapon Damage then the system does as I noted. If the penalty is just MAX Weapon Damage then the STR fighter wins even more, hence the 'optimism'
STR 18
Gauntlet 1d2 + 4 STR Damage, AVG 5.5
either -2 to hit, +4 STR, =+2
if it is just MAX weapon damage that is the penalty
or -6, +4 STR = -2 if it is total maximum potential damage
+0 AC
DEX 18 (+finesse)
Rapier 1d6, AVG 3.5
-6, +4 Finesse, -2 to hit in both cases
+4 AC
or if you prefer
Gauntlet
-2, +4, +2 to hit, 1.5 AVG damage!
With STR, you get get a bonus to hit which exactly negates the AC gain, and then you get bonus DMG too.
This does neatly enforce smaller weapons, as they have less penalty to hit, which does definitely fit with Dune, and the daggers and kindjals. However, being able to push through a shield because you are STR doesn't fit with the slow blade penetrates the shield feinting style combat.
Did you get a chance to look at the 'official' but unreleased WOTC D20 adventure? It covers the arrival o the Atreides on Arrakis, and is almost completely usable out of the box. Just add your own system's stats!
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=188144
D20 Dune Treatments from RPGNet
Regards.
If the penalty to hit = STR damage bonus + MAX Weapon Damage then the system does as I noted. If the penalty is just MAX Weapon Damage then the STR fighter wins even more, hence the 'optimism'
STR 18
Gauntlet 1d2 + 4 STR Damage, AVG 5.5
either -2 to hit, +4 STR, =+2
if it is just MAX weapon damage that is the penalty
or -6, +4 STR = -2 if it is total maximum potential damage
+0 AC
DEX 18 (+finesse)
Rapier 1d6, AVG 3.5
-6, +4 Finesse, -2 to hit in both cases
+4 AC
or if you prefer
Gauntlet
-2, +4, +2 to hit, 1.5 AVG damage!
With STR, you get get a bonus to hit which exactly negates the AC gain, and then you get bonus DMG too.
This does neatly enforce smaller weapons, as they have less penalty to hit, which does definitely fit with Dune, and the daggers and kindjals. However, being able to push through a shield because you are STR doesn't fit with the slow blade penetrates the shield feinting style combat.
Did you get a chance to look at the 'official' but unreleased WOTC D20 adventure? It covers the arrival o the Atreides on Arrakis, and is almost completely usable out of the box. Just add your own system's stats!
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=188144
D20 Dune Treatments from RPGNet
Regards.
I haven't gotten to look at that thread (my work Firewall is a pain). And these posts are hard to keep up with behind an intermittent Firewall.
I wonder if you're thinking of putting these two against each other specifically though. Here's my own math, in a dual format as I did with Steve. (As for the smaller weapons being reinforced, that was definitely part of the idea. So we'll just keep it between daggers.)
BAB 0
STR 18 (+4), Dagger 1d4+4 (Min 5, Max 8)
DEX 10 (+0), Defense 10
To Hit Armor Class 14 at Min damage = 15 (+4 Str, -5 Damage)
To Hit Armor Class 14 at Max damage = 18 (+4 Str, -8 Damage)
vs.
BAB 0
STR 10 (+0), Dagger 1d4 (Min 1, Max 4)
DEX 18 (+4), Defense 14
To Hit Armor Class 10 at Min damage = 11 (+0 Str, -1 Damage)
To Hit Armor Class 10 at Max damage = 14 (+0 Str, -4 Damage)
The facts I see are:
a. weapon choice could give you an obvious advantage, this was encouraged for the same reason you mention
b. subtracting the total damage negates the Attribute bonus, as planned
c. if you're hitting less with Weapon Finesse choose not to use it
What I'm saying is, your models don't consider the opponent's Defense, which then evens the odds. So my question is, assuming these facts are agreeable with you, do you think the damage is enough to counterbalance this and/or tip the scales?
(Thanks for bearing with me; my rules knowledge may not be very fresh but I think it still works.)
I had assumed that the penalty would be fixed, i.e. 2 for 1d2, 4 for 1d4 et cetera. Your analysis above indeed reflects increased difficulty to hit for Mr STR, when you take a penalty for the actual DMG damage dice rolled, not just the maximum possible, you are no longer forced to choose to reduce randomness
If you are happy conceptually with STR fighters dominating then this system does what Dune requires. It gives you a distinct system, in which the the better choice is a smallsword or other small blade.
I can't get past my fixed idea that finesse fighters should have a mechanical advantage versus shields... Finesse also enforces small weapons, which is one of our desiderata, and just excising STR to hit is somewhat simpler! I am of course stuck in my ways after 3 years of play testing, and explaining to my players why STR now is not as useful against shielded opponents. However vive la difference! The more approaches the better =)
I am now confused; the penalty to hit varies depending on the damage you have just rolled? You'd have to roll it first, but that is just a detail... or perhaps you choose how deadly a strike to go for... which would be intriguing.
I had assumed that the penalty would be fixed, i.e. 2 for 1d2, 4 for 1d4 et cetera. Your analysis above indeed reflects increased difficulty to hit for Mr STR, when you take a penalty for the actual DMG damage dice rolled, not just the maximum possible, you are no longer forced to choose to reduce randomness
If you are happy conceptually with STR fighters dominating then this system does what Dune requires. It gives you a distinct system, in which the the better choice is a smallsword or other small blade.
I can't get past my fixed idea that finesse fighters should have a mechanical advantage versus shields... Finesse also enforces small weapons, which is one of our desiderata, and just excising STR to hit is somewhat simpler! I am of course stuck in my ways after 3 years of play testing, and explaining to my players why STR now is not as useful against shielded opponents. However vive la difference! The more approaches the better =)
Sorry for any confusion thus far. I'm just jumping back into this now that I have a few minutes here and there. I lack any and all notes from last year and I only think I have it sorted out.
To answer your question though, yes, you roll your damage at the same time as your attack. (Well, half of your damage at least. If you hit, you have to roll the second half.)
I thought what we were discussing was whether a "better" chance at hitting was worth sacrificing some damage. I thought you were saying it wasn't, for various reasons, and I was trying to iron out why it wasn't while showing that I thought it favors Mr. DEX's attack (finesse), while "possibly" favoring Mr. STR's damage.
I may have lost you when I was still of the mindset that Weapon Finesse added the DEX bonus to damage and was indicating that not having Weapon Finesse would make Mr. DEX more "balanced". Unfortunately I only recently remembered the address for http://www.d20srd.org/. (I hate working in a call center; you never get a chance to think.)
Does this make any sense now? Sorry for any confusion. A lot of your ideas still might make this system better or more workable. I'll still have to leave it to Steve to sort it out though.
HI--I'm new to this thread but a huge fan of Dune. Is there anyway I can get emailed a copy of the rules y'all have come up with?
I maintain the d20 Modern Conversion based on Last Unicorn Games ICON Chronicles of the Imperium RPG. Private message me with you email address and I will email them...
A really old version of mine, and Jedi Steve-Os are also hosted here...
http://dune.cyberdark.com.br/
In other news I will be using the Corrida Escada rules (Bullfighting) in ym game next weekend. Justwandering if any one knows any good primary materials? Death in the Afternoon by Hemingway has been the bible so far.
I am fantastically interested in the 4th ed which seem to borrow heavily from the d20 Modern system and the Star Wars SAGA systems. Given my DUNE RULBUK is a streamlined version of the D20 Modern there may be some interesting cross fertilization.
I am interested in doing a 2nd edition of my Dune Campiagn that will deal with the post Scattering epoch.
Just an excuse to bump this thread.
2. The question that I'm wondering is how did Frank Herbert, or how do you, imagine non-duelling combat takes place in the Dune universe? It seems to be implied that everybody has shields, which implies that all combat either takes place in melee or uses anti-shield weapons. This seems, especially for mass warfare, a little bizzare. Any thoughts?
I didn't have time to read the whole thread so sorry if this repeats, but until the second jihad, it was implied (though not explicitly stated) that there was little to no mass combat (war or even skirmishes) because of the great treaty and all combat was assassinations and duels or on Dune where shields were suicide.
The fall of one Great House at the hands of another Atrieides and Harkonnen is the central premise of the first book, and the fall of the Ginaz at the hands of the Moritani is mentioned in passing too.
I am approaching the end of my d20 Dune Campaign, or at least a long hiatus. I shall produce a final version of my 1st Edition RULBUK. I am heavily considering a post scattering update - but that depends on the finale of this one =)
One more session to go before I start work on the post scattering section and a 2.0 version of the RULBUK. Stay tuned.
Again if anyone wants copies of the current RULBUK - pm me.
All the relevant files have been uploaded there!
Enjoy.
<p>This looks like a pretty old thread, but I'll chance it anyway. Is there complete write for rules to this Dune write up? How can I get my hands on them?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'd like to covert this over to WOD D10 and mix in some 40k.</p>
Let me start by saying, congratulations on all the great work on the Dune Rulbuk! I'd like to run a campaign based on it, but I'm thinking I'd like to expand it beyond the Moritani/Ginaz setting. So, a couple questions:
1. One of the biggest "flavor" elements of the Dune universe is, obviously, Arrakis and the Fremen. Has Artaxerxes or anyone else worked up any Fremen-related material for the Rulbuk system?
2. How about any Scattering-era stuff? I'm especially interested in the Honored Matres.
3. Are there any complete (i.e., statted) modules/adventures anyone would be willing to share to help get us up and running?
Thanks!