| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1zombiegleemaxApr 22, 2008 15:53:00 | I'm not in the mood to write story-format flavor text right now, or to come up with a science-fiction-y theory for how plane-shifting and time travel work, so I'm just going to skip that for now... If you guy's have any ideas, please share. :P Regardless of how little motivation I have to write flavor text, I am very interested in the situation that follows: The basic idea of this thread: Sometime in the near future, something (my vote is a hostile alien race) forces the US to somehow send a large number of military and non-military personnel to a parallel time-line, and back a notable number of years. The hope is that the people sent to the alternate time-line will have enough time to develop the civilizations there -as well as themselves- enough for them to be capable of fighting off whatever it is that's plaguing modern Earth. Then, perhaps, they will be able to send troops from the alternate Earth to the original Earth to fight off the alien invasion... but that's for much later on in the thread. :P So... assuming this happens, what's a realistic (as far as realistic can be used to describe this setting) number of personnel and equipment load-out to be sent back into the alternate time-line? What do you believe the modern group would do first, and how would they go about advancing the the other civilizations? Would they instead cloister and try to advance on their own? EDIT: Oh, as for the time the time the personnel are sent back to, let's go with the time of the Roman Empire, since we've been going on about that in the US armed forces VS Rome thread. Have fun! |
| #2hinthasApr 22, 2008 21:12:30 | Got the story, working out the kinks. ********************************************************************************* Kinking out the Story It started with this event (http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/Phoenix_local_news_042108_new-lights-sightings.895be60f.html) and then a few months later more of the same activity. The American Insanity Act, known to some as the presidential elections, occurred and the newly elected president enacted policy that finished the Unit of Action modulation process for the US Army. Not a big deal originally, but many communities around the world started to notice less involvement by Americans in general. Some called it a blessing and others counted their woes at the loss of revenue. "We're putting a New Face on the American image" was the boiled down dribble that would be stated to anyone that cared to ask. The networks DID get rid of that Idol show after all. Which was good because the "dots" reappeared. In late 2010, one of the "dots" crashed landed one evening just outside of Vicenza Italy. The US Army base there was in between war deployments and was well on their way to being Fully Mission Capable. Having Presidential Authority, units of the 173rd ABCT ( http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/173abnbde.htm) secured the crash site and transported the wreckage to secured facility on the Caserma Ederle base. Sometime in the few hours after the wreck was captured, the spacecraft's engine erupted in what can only be described as "brilliant flash of light". After the flash of light, it was reported that the Caserma Ederle Vicenza Army Base had suffered substantial damage to the secured facility and light damage on the rest of the complex and surrounding neighborhoods. Power outages have occurred base wide and for all of the surrounding areas. Disturbingly silent and dark as far as the eye can see.... |
| #3doomsoughtApr 23, 2008 18:47:24 | A carrier fleet, every single nuclear powered vessel ( I mean all of them, the Russies use them as power plants in some towns). A oil platform, modified for C&C. then every cargo barge, oil tanker and fishing boat they can find. cargo barges will be full of every form of industrial equipment they can get. they would specifically target areas of High mineral wealth. Lets also say there is a second group going for china, having every other nuclear vessel. The China group will most likely be of Chinese, Japanese, and a few Europeans. they are out of radio contact until the first ICBM is built and can launch a communications satellite. This would be the players goal. |
| #4RagitsuApr 23, 2008 19:50:32 | Actually, I believe a similar thing was done in the video game Dino Crisis 2. Hopefully, better yield power sources along with solar panels, wind turbines and hydroelectricity have been invented by then. |
| #5backstabbistApr 23, 2008 20:37:30 | If we are going to send them to a parallel Earth full of humans, we dont have to try to populate the planet, just hit them with Turbo Tech Advancement. We dont need to establish sustainable camps, we can walk upto Rome and announce our presense as prophets of the sciences. Send just 100 to 200 engineers, welders, mechanics machnists, brewers etc, and get Rome from PL1 to PL5 in less than 2 generations. We then have 2000 years of further developement to research new techs to get up to PL7 or PL8. Just walk up to Rome, and hand them a cold beer, and tell them we a here to teach Rome to make cold beer... and make stronger concrete... and make knives like this rust-proof one... and have food stay fresh... that Rome may crush its enemies, and grow ever bigger, stronger smarter. Have that Rome crush everything else on the plannet, and shoot up the tech tree at lightning pace. We dont have to exist despite Rome, we can thrive as part of the empire... the teaching part. Just dont skip too much too fast, save cannon for a few years, give them metalurgy & radio first. They will love you to death to be able to give orders instantly rather than runners/riders when its fightin time. |
| #6zombiegleemaxApr 23, 2008 21:05:23 | Very cool ideas so far. Backstabbist -- If the US wishes to use this project to try and save their original Earth, this might not be the best plan. If the Roman Empire lasts long enough to build to a tech level the aliens cannot survive, what's to stop them from, if we tell them to save the other Earth as part of the deal, conquering the Original Earth when they are finished destroying the aliens a second time? Just a random thought. Heck, this project could be assuming the Original Earth was done for. |
| #7doomsoughtApr 25, 2008 12:14:47 | thats where the players come in, they either conquer Rome with brute force... or, if they are good RPers, they control Rome with politics and espionage, Illuminati like and all of that: The new new council walks into his official cambers, sees the players: "hello, every thing you know is a lie, your rule is only symbolic, we are in control. now be a good boy and don't do any thing foolish. We know how to change our faces*" *bring along 2 or three Hollywood makeup artists if you do it this way. |
| #8hinthasApr 25, 2008 15:31:55 | The morning after the space craft's engine went critical and "blew up", it was determined by the Intel guys at the 173rd STB that some sort of "temporal shift" was created. The current thinking is that the minerals in the area and the military post's irrigation system worked as a network or web to conduct the alien engine's power surge when it dispersed. This theory is reinforced by the Engineer company thats also in the 173rd STB. So far the affected area extends past the Vicenza Army Post into the surrounding areas about 100m which also suffered the same phenomenom. This occurrence has displaced hundreds of civilians and the military base has extended its cordon line to include these areas. All structures on the military base has survived with the little damage listed and the same can be said of the civilian houses. At the 100m point is where evidence of modern civilization literally stops. Asphalt roads have been sheared with razor precision as well as any buildings and a few unfortunate civilians. Fortunately, the demeanor of the affected civilians is still in a state of shock but the Brigade Commander of the 173rd ABCT wants to corral the populace before any rioting sets in. He has established a temporary type of martial law and is working with the local constabulary for the moment. Earlier in the morning at about 0645 probable local time, observation towers in the south of the Vicenza Army Post have relayed by runners a dust or pollution cloud that is growing in density. Because the Post is still in a state of emergency, there has been no planned excursions outside the immediate area. We will continue to keep command updated hourly if not sooner. |
| #9backstabbistApr 25, 2008 15:49:47 | what's to stop them from, if we tell them to save the other Earth as part of the deal, conquering the Original Earth when they are finished destroying the aliens a second time Ahh, we dont use the NewRome guys as armed forces saviors to kil off our aliens, we use them to develope technology in that 2000 years that can kick alien azz. Then the progeny of the visiors return to OriginalEarth with that technology about 2 generations before the alien problem. Now it is this planets turn to get Tech boosted, but from pl5 to pl8 instead of from pl2 to pl5 like the NewRomans got. Now, when the aliens invade they will find OriginalEarth is at pl8 when just 30 years ago it was at pl5. The Bill & Ted Learn To Play Guitar paradox. |
| #10hinthasApr 25, 2008 18:18:57 | WYLD STALLYNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| #11zombiegleemaxApr 26, 2008 0:43:06 | Ahh, we dont use the NewRome guys as armed forces saviors to kil off our aliens, Hmm... maybe our guys play Atlantis and hide away from the rest of the Earth so we can avoid a paradox? Of course, then they need even more kick-A tech to stop the alien invasion... and they need to stop it right after the people are sent back in time. Or, we could go with Hinthas' story, which is very cool so far. :P |
| #12hinthasApr 26, 2008 17:30:28 | The Atlantis route wouldn't work. There's too many people to feed and not enough immediate (read 20th century) resources available. Because the future group is THERE, they irrevocably have an effect on the timeline skewing it from what we would know. Atlantis is different Because it was an island landmass. Vicenza is northern Italy an there is already a settlement there. Not to mention close to other cultured areas. Not all are friends in the Roman Empire. The future group would Have To expose themselves to the locals to survive and this is where Adventure Requirements start creeping in. The civilians of the previous future Vicenza will ALSO undoubtedly want to attempt to trace their lineage or "learn the culture" of the Ancestors. Often times this may have lethal consequences. 21th Century Humans have lost touch with their savage entity survival instincts and the role of the military will be very necessary to protect these orphans in time. Because time is relevent to the planetoid (composition, axis rotation, and gravity being integral to the creatures perception of time), I cannot say if there would be a paradox. This planetoid would not likely reject them as being a biological mutation. So the only other factor "What happens to the Previous Timeline campaign" and "What does this Current Timeline hold instore for us knowing the historical catalysts of the time? And do we attempt to alter any of the catalysts or what happens when we do?" and finally "How do I as a GM tie-in the two and come up with a realistic representation of what could be the consequences of skewing the Timeline?" Thanks for the compliment Master Vega but the idea isn't mine. I ripped it from SM Stirling and applied it to the area and made sure I picked an Army military base in Italy. I wanted it to be an Airborne unit and the 173rd fit the bill. They incidentally are the next highest recognized Airborne unit after the 82nd and have a "chip on their shoulder" about a few things. The Red Dot story here in AZ also fit the story concept. Its the same method I used with the Chinese are Invading thread. Some news stories were up to date and others I put in regardless of date to imply a theme. And then there was a truckload of other creative license. I had an Army Instructor that said "Always have a good lie ready about anything." Roleplaying just gave me an edge. Doug |
| #13hinthasApr 27, 2008 20:20:51 | Found a timeline. This is the site: http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/romans.html 753 BC: Roma (Rome) is founded by Romulus 750 BC: Greeks establish a colony at Cuma 750 BC: first Etruscan inscriptions 616 BC: Tarquinius I becomes an Etruscan king of Roma 600 BC: Etruscans build the colossal tombs of Cerveteri 600 BC: the Forum is built 600 BC: oldest Latin inscriptions 578 BC: Tarquinius Priscus builds the Cloaca Maxima, the first sewer 550 BC: Servius Tullius builds city walls 474 BC: the Greeks defeat the Etruscans at Cuma 509 BC: the last king is expelled and Roma becomes a republic 450 BC: the Twelve Tables of the Roman law 396 BC: Roma conquers the Etruscan city of Veii 387 BC: the Gauls/Celts sack Roma 326 BC: the Circus Maximus is built 312 BC: the Via Appia is opened 312 BC: the first aqueduct, the Aqua Appia, is built 308 BC: Roma conquers the Etruscan city of Tarquinia 295 BC: Roma defeats the Gauls/Celts in northern Italy 287 BC: the Lex Hortensia makes plebiscites binding 280 BC: Roma issues coins 275 BC: Roma conquers southern Italy (Greek colonies) 272 BC: a second aqueduct, the Anio Vetus, is built 264 BC: Roma and Carthage fight the first Punic war 264 BC: the Romans destroy the last vestiges of the Etruscan civilization (Volsinies) 222 BC: the Gauls are defeated 221 BC: the Circus Flaminius 218 BC: Hannibal invades Italy 214 BC: war machines designed by Greek mathematician Archimedes save the city of Syracuse, an ally of Carthage, from a Roman naval attack 202 BC: Scipio defeats Hannibal and Roma annexes Spain 196 BC: the Romans defeat the Macedonian king Philip V at Cynoscephalae 189 BC: Antiochus III, king of the Seleucids, is defeated at the battle of Magnesia and surrenders his possessions in Europe and Asia Minor 184 BC: the Basilica Porcia 181 BC: Aquileia is founded on the head of the Adriatic 149 BC: Roma destroys Carthage 149 BC: Roma conquers Greece after winning the battle of Corinth (and destroying Corinth) 144 BC: the first high-level aqueduct 133 BC: Attalus III of Pergamum wills his kingdom to Roma and the whole Mediterranean Sea is under Roman control ("mare nostrum") 106 BC: the Romans defeat Jugurtha, king of Numidia 88 BC: Italians are granted full citizenship 83 BC: Sulla becomes dictator 74 BC: Cicero enters the senate 73 BC: Spartacus leads the revolt of the gladiators 71 BC: Mithridates VI of Pontus is conquered by Roman general Lucius Lucullus 71 BC: Crassus puts down Spartacus' revolt 70 BC: Crassus and Pompey are elected consuls 69 BC: Rome invades Tigranes' Armenian kingdom and edstroys its capital, Tigranocerta 64 BC: Syria becomes a Roman province under general Pompey (Gnaeus Pompeius) 63 BC: Pompeus captures Jerusalem and annexes Palestine to Roma 60 BC: Crassus, Pompey and Caesar form a "triumvirate" 59 BC: Caesar is elected consul 57 BC: Caesar conquers all of Gaul 53 BC: in the first war against Persia, Crassus is defeated and killed by the Parthians at Carrhae (Syria) 51 BC: Caesar crushes revolt of Vercingetorix in Gaul 50 BC: Roma introduces the gold coin "aureus" 49 BC: Ceasar crosses the Rubicon, defeats Pompey and becomes sole dictator of Rome, calling himself "imperator" 47 BC: Ceasar invades Egypt and proclaims Cleopatra queen 45 BC: Julius Caesar employs the Egyptian astronomer Sosigenes to work out a new 12-month calendar (Julian calendar) 44 BC: Ceasar is killed. 36 BC: Rome tries to invade Persia 31 BC: Octavianus (Augustus) becomes the first emperor after defeating Mark Anthony at the battle of Actium 30 BC: Cleopatra commits suicide and Egypt is annexed to Roma 20 BC: a treaty between Roma and Persia (Parthians) fixes the boundary between the two empires along the Euphrates river (Iraq) 17 BC: the theater of Marcellus 13 BC: Augustus expands the borders to the region of the Danube 6 BC: Jesus is born in Palestine 1 AD: Roma has about one million people 2 AD: the Forum of Augustus 5 AD: Roma acknowledges Cymbeline, King of the Catuvellauni, as king of Britain 6 AD: Augustus expands the borders to the Balkans 12 AD: The last Etruscan inscription is carved 14 AD: Augustus dies and Tiberius becomes emperor 14 AD: five million people live in the Roman empire 25 AD: Agrippa builds the Pantheon 37 AD: Tiberius dies and the mad Caligula succeeds him 41 AD: Caligula is assassinated and is succeeded by Claudius 43 AD: Claudius invades Britain 46 AD: Thracia becomes a Roman province 50 AD: the Romans found Londinium in Britain 54 AD: Claudius is succeeded by Nero 58 AD: the Romans conquer Armenia 64 AD: Nero sets fire to Roma and blames the Christians for it 68 AD: Nero commits suicide and is succeeded by Vespasianus 79 AD: Vespasianus is succeeded by Tito 70 AD: Tito destroys Jerusalem and Jews spread in Armenia, Iraq, Iran, Arabia, Egypt, Italy, Spain and Greece 77 AD: the Romans conquer Wales 79 AD: the Vesuvius erupts and Pompeii is buried under ash 79 AD: the Colosseum is completed 80 AD: the Romans invade Caledonia (Scotland) 81 AD: the Arch of Titus 84 AD: British rebels are defeated by the Romans at the battle of Mons Graupius 97 AD: Rome forbids human sacrifice throughout the Roman empire 97 AD: Chinese general Pan Chao sends an embassy to the Roman Empire 98 AD: Trajan becomes emperor 100: the city of Roma has one million inhabitants 106: Trajan defeats Dacia that becomes a Roman province 106: Trajan captures the Nabataean capital Petra (Jordan) and turns Nabataea into the province of Arabia 107: The Roman Empire sends an embassy to India 110: the Basilica of Trajano is completed 112: the Forum of Trajanus 113: Colonna Traiana 116: Trajan conquers Mesopotamia and the Parthian capital Ctesiphon 117: Trajan dies on his way to the Persian Gulf and Hadrian becomes emperor 122: Hadrian's Wall is built along the northern frontier to protect from the Barbarians 132: Jews, led by Bar-Cochba, whom some identify as the Messiah, revolt against Roma 134: Villa Hadriana 136: emperor Hadrian definitely crushes the Jewish resistance, forbids Jews from ever entering Jerusalem, and changes the name of the city to Aelia Capitolina 138: Hadrian is succeeded by Antoninus Pius, who repels Hadrian's anti-Jewish laws 139: Hadrian's mausoleum (Castel Sant'Angelo) 161: Marcus Aurelius becomes Roman emperor 164: the plague spreads throughout the Roman empire 193: Septimius Severus, from Libya, becomes emperor 194: Rome annexes Palmyra to the province of Syria 212: Caracalla grants Roman citizenship on all free people who live in the Roman Empire 214: Caracalla murders King Abgar IX of Edessa and declares Edessa a Roman colony 216: the thermae of Caracalla 217: the Baths of Caracalla are inaugurated 217: Caracalla is murdered in Edessa 218: Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, the last of the Antonines, becomes emperor and promoties the cult of Elegabalus, a Syriac sun god 244: Shapur I becomes king of the Sassanids and attacks Roma 250: emperor Decius orders the first emperor-wide persecution of Christians 256: the Persians/Sassanids defeat the Romans and conquer Dura Europus in Mesopotamia 273: the Romans destroy the rebellious city of Palmyra in Syria 284: Diocletian becomes emperor but rules from Nicomedia in the East 298: Roma captures Nisibis and the Sassanids sign a peace treaty with Roma 300: the population of the Roman Empire is 60 million (about 15 million Christians) 303: Diocletian orders a general persecution of the Christians 303: the thermae of Diocletian 312: Constantine becomes emperor 313: Constantine ends the persecution of the Christians (edict of Milano) 313: the Basilica of Maxentius is completed 313: Constantine recognizes the Christian church 330: Constantine I builds a new city, Constantinople (Byzantium) 337: after Constantine's death, his sons split the empire: Constantine II (Spain, Britain, Gaul), Constans I (Italy, Africa, Illyricum, Macedon, Achaea) and Constantius II (the East) 356: Roma has 28 libraries, 10 basilicas, 11 public baths, two amphitheaters, three theaters, two circuses, 19 aqueducts, 11 squares, 1,352 fountains, 46,602 insulae (city blocks) 359: Constantinople becomes the capital of the Roman empire 360: pagan (Mithraist) general Julian (the "apostate") defeats an invasion of Barbarians and is declared emperor by his German troops 363: Julian dies attempting to invade the Sassanid kingdom of Persia, which recaptures Nisibis and Armenia, and general Valentinian becomes emperor 363: an earthquake destroys Petra 364: Valentinian delegates Valens as emperor of the East 376: Valens allows Visigoths to settle within the empire 378: the Visigoths defeat the Roman army at Hadrianopolis 380: Theodosius I proclaims Christianity as the sole religion of the Roman Empire 393: Theodosius forbids the Olympic Games because pagans and shuts down the temple of Zeus at Olympia 395: Theodosius divides the Roman empire in the Western and Eastern Empires, with Milano and Constantinople as their capitals 402: the western Roman empire moves the capital from Milano to Ravenna 406: Barbarians invade France from the north 410: the Visigots sack Roma 410: Roma withdraws from Britannia 418: the emperor grants Wallia's Visigoths to settle in Aquitaine (Atlantic coast of France) 425: the eastern emperor Theodosius II installs Valentinian III as emperor of the west 427: Gensenric's Vandals crosses the strait of Gibraltar and lands in Africa 443: the emperor grants Burgundi to settle in Savoy 450: Theodosius II dies and Marcian succeeds him, the first Roman emperor to be crowned by a religious leader (the patriarch of Constantinople) 452: the Huns invade Italy 455: the Vandals sack Roma 476: Odoacer, a mercenary in the service of Roma, leader of the Germanic soldiers in the Roman army, deposes the western Roman emperor and thereby terminates the western Roman empire 488: emperor Zeno sends Theodoric's Ostrogoths (still settled in Pannonia) to conquer Italy 493: the Ostrogoths led by Theodoric conquer Italy 500: Roma's population has declined to less than 100,000 people 526: Antioch in Syria is destroyed by an earthquake 527: Justinian becomes eastern Roman emperor and decides to reconquer Italy 527: Byzantium enforces anti-Jewish laws and the Jews all but disappear from the eastern Roman Empire 529: Roman emperor Justinian shuts down the Academia of Plato 533: Justinian's code of law ("Corpus Juri Civilis") is published 534: Justinian's general Belisarius destroys the Arian kingdom of the Vandals and reconquers southern Spain and northern Africa 536: the Ostrogoths surrender and Belisarius reconquers Rome (beginning of the Barbar wars in Italy) 537: Justinian's general Belisarius deposes pope Silverius and replaces him with pope Vigilius 537: Justinian builds the church of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople 540: Justinian's general Belisarius takes Ravenna from the last Ostrogothic resistance and thus reconquers Italy to the empire 542: the plague decimates the Empire 546: Visigothic rebels led by Totila sack Roma 551: imperial troops reconquer Rome 552: Nestorian monks smuggle silkworm eggs from China to Byzanthium 552: End of Ostrogothic resistance in Italy 554: Rome is reduced to a camp of about 30,000 people, while Constantinople has about one million people 554: the new king of the Visigoths, Athanagild, accepts the emperor's sovereignity over Spain 554: the empire reorganizes Italy as an imperial province (end of the Barbar wars) 565: Justinian dies 568: Alboin's Lombards invade northern Italy 600: Constantinople has 500,000 inhabitants 602: the Persians (Sassanids) attack the eastern Roman empire in Asia Minor 610: Heraclius I overthrows the tyrant Phocas and becomes emperor 614: the Persians (Sassanids) capture Jerusalem 619: the Persians capture Egypt 621: the Visigoths reconquer all of Spain from the Roman empire 626: the Sassanids besiege Constantinople 627: the Sassanid king Khusrau II is defeated by Roman emperor Heraclius at Niniveh 628: the Romans retake Syria from the Sassanids 636: Arabs capture Syria and Palestine 639: the Arabs invade the southern provinces of the Empire 673: the Arabs besiege Constantinople 714: the Arabs besiege Constantinople 718: Leo III repels the Arabs from Constantinople 726: Emperor Leo III orders the destruction of all icons (iconoclasm) 739: emperor Leo III issues the Ecloga that introduces Christian principles into law 800: Charlemagne, king of the Franks, is crowned emperor by Pope Leo III and founds the Holy Roman Empire 811: the eastern Roman emperor recognized Charlemagne as emperor of Roma 812: a peace treaty between Charlemagne and the Eastern Roman Empire surrenders Venezia to the Eastern empire but grants Venezia the right to trade with the Holy Roman Empire 813: an Armenian general becomes eastern Roman emperor Leo V 840: Basil's fleet retakes Bari from the Muslims 843: Icons are restored 846: the city of Roma has 17,000 inhabitants 860: the Rus attack Constantinople 867: Basil I becomes the Byzantine emperor and founds the Macedonian dynasty 879: Basil I defeats the Arabs and reconquers Cappadocia 896: Symeon of Bulgaria defeats the Byzantine army for the first time 922: Symeon of Bulgaria defeats the Byzantine army for the fourth and last time 934: Magyars raid Constantinople 968: Nicephorus II defeats the Arabs and reconquers Syria 969: Nicephorus II defeats the Bulgars 976: Basil II becomes the Byzantine emperor 1018: Basil II annexes Bulgaria and the Byzantine empire reaches its zenith 1025: Basil II dies 1054: The patriarch of Constantinople and the pope in Roma excommunicate each other (the Great Schism) 1057: end of the Macedonian dynasty 1064: the Seljuks invade Armenia 1071: the Byzantine army of Romanus IV Diogenes is defeated by the Seljuks at Manzikert in Armenia, and establish a sultanate in Anatolia 1071: Normans led by Robert Guiscard conquer southern Italy from the eastern Roman empire 1081: Alexius I Komnenos establishes the Komnenos dynasty 1099: the first Crusade captures Jerusalem 1187: Saladin defeats the crusaders 1204: the Crusaders, led by the Doge of Venezia, sack Constantinople, expel the Greek emperor Alexius III and set up a Latin kingdom, led by Baldwin I of the Flanders, while Venezia acquires territories in the Mediterranean and Black Seas 1204: Theodore I Lascaris, son-in-law od Alexius III, flees from Constantinople to Nicaea (Bithynia), where he founds a the empire, whereas Alexius founds the empire of Trebizond further east 1211: Nicaea emperor Theodore I Lascaris conquers most of Anatolia 1261: Constantinople is liberated by the Nicaean emperor Michael VIII Paleologus and Greek becomes the official language of the ever smaller eastern Roman empire 1291: the Moslems expel the Crusaders from the Middle East 1345: Serbia defeats the eastern Roman empire and annexes Macedonia and Thrace 1347: the plague (Black Death) strikes Constantinople and it will kill half the population of the city 1348: Serbia defeats the eastern Roman empire and annexes Thessaly and Epirus 1453: the Ottoman Turks under Mehmet II capture Constantinople 1461: the Ottomans conquer the empire of Trebizond, the last Greek state Gives the viewing audience at home some perspective. You could even consider these dates to be catalysts and more importantly plot hooks. Doug |
| #14backstabbistApr 30, 2008 8:47:39 | 1347: the plague (Black Death) strikes Constantinople and it will kill half the population of the city It cost a lot of coin, but there is just a deadly beauty in a perfectly executed Ninja Attack. .... they still dont even realize it was Ninjas, not disease, talk about the perfect cover story installed by the ninjas. Ninjas sneak into everyones house, apply a topical irritant, then after the targets walk around a few days with visible lesions, the ninjas sneak back & kill the guy. And nobody even considers to look for ninjas in town. Man they're good. |
| #15hinthasApr 30, 2008 9:34:49 | Doing things twice now? I know how much the thought bugs me and I don't have an Uber-Katana. Granted its a nice cover. (Whose gonna thoroughly check over a plague ridden body that sprouted a couple more bleeding holes?) But plague is for Real, will the ninja team contract some good ol' "Istanbul Original Crud" and infect the Home team? As a Commander, I couldn't allow for that chance to happen. Unless you're talking about a different game that doesn't involve the same timeline and circumstances.....Oh waitaminute. 1347? yep. It seems we've stalled for lack of direction..... |
| #16zombiegleemaxApr 30, 2008 10:49:28 | Hey, that's what the Americans would do! Hire Ninjas to kill off the Roman army! Lawlz! /sarcasm. :P Anyhow, if you guys want to start working on the setting(s), let's A: pick a scenario (Hinthas' or Backstabbist's), B: Pick several time periods we want to elaborate on, and C: ... Ummm... Get to work brainstorming? |
| #17doomsoughtMay 06, 2008 18:40:55 | And my input is ignored? Another good series to read for this is Conrad stargard |
| #18zombiegleemaxMay 06, 2008 22:55:25 | It wasn't ignored. It just got overwhelmed by a storm of posts after it. Heh... I'll look into that. Thanks, Doomsought. |
| #19doomsoughtMay 07, 2008 19:16:10 | You have it be a last desperate gamble 2 carrier groups 30 nuclear subs 1 towed oil platform/command post 10 large cargo vessels 20 infantry transports full of civvies (technicians, teachers, experts) 50 medium cargo transports as many infantry as you can fit in 30 transports 100 fishing vessels 50 some additional PT boats. the 10 large cargo transports carry nothing but industrial equipment. generators, robots, welding equipment, computers, conveyor belts, smelters, ovens, the works. Anything that would take a few years to build. the 50 medium cargo vessels contain supplies: nuts, bolts, screws, tools, medicine, bullets. they are given the goal of by any means: ballots or bullets, to conquer the Mediterranean and re-establish communications with the american and Asian fleets by launching the first satellite. you know the romans had a sucky fleet right? and Rome is on a RIVER. |
| #20tema69May 09, 2008 12:54:31 | But it was a big ass sucky fleet. :D |
| #21backstabbistMay 09, 2008 23:33:15 | wait... what were we talking about? If this is intentionally going back in time, to Roman days, and establishing ourselves with the romans with booze or bullets... uh, why? You know that big open space called North America that wasnt "discovered" in roman days? Why not live there... a little more room than squeezing another culture into the Med, and we already have maps so we know where to put the states & towns. When Columbus swings by we say Thanx But No Thanx, We're all full up. Here, have a globe as parting gift. And it would save us a fortune on ninjas over the other plan. |
| #22rhialtoMay 10, 2008 10:51:18 | I guess the point about going for the Roman Empire is the sheer manpower available is they are taken over. Uplifting one of the world's dominant empires of the day to modern tech standards (or early industrial at least) gives you far more bang for the buck than trying to create modern civilization with nothing that you didn't carry with you. China would be an equally potent option, except I think ther language barrier is a bit bigger. |
| #23hinthasMay 10, 2008 14:07:38 | I'm going to suggest this thread be splintered into two different threads and use this one as a sketch or work board. The thought is Earth 2.0: Project Meredith - Frenzied and chaotic effort of gathering resources and people to go back to When in time. This is because the Space Aliens/Monsters have all but crushed most of the world's superpowers and this is a last ditch effort to save 21st century humanity via an artifcial rift in time ala "Philadelphia Project". Allows for a global clean slate and no Romans need to get hurt in the process. Gives the campaign the implied goal of trying to rework the temporal equipment/failed cloaking equipment into launching these people back into an almost uncertain future. Or Earth2.0: Orphans- which was the Oops we're here in Rome without the rest of the world for backup because the spaceship we captured ejected Vicenza Army Post back in time story I was working on. By having this thread as a workboard, we can concentrate on having either of these new theads stay true to their intended format. Just a thought and we don't have to worry about labor costs for ninjas. Doug |
| #24doomsoughtMay 10, 2008 20:12:47 | My fleet makes sense for Project Meredith, as you call it. Its last ditch, just like Normandy. You send in every thing you got. Everything |
| #25hinthasMay 10, 2008 21:29:06 | The concept for Project Meredith was based on Master Vega's UFO theory but with a few more twists. Rough outline. Space Aliens show up and commence to put a Whoopin' on everyone and thier military. Major metropolis' all over the world are wiped out and refugees are running scared waiting to be Eaten. Some eggheads at Area51 get the bright idea to resurrect some old Cloaking project with the USS Eldridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment) and still arrive with the same result. The exception is the test matter not only just "disappears" but leaves in its spot some bushes and dirt. Soil and flora samples indicate biological strains that haven't existed in nature for some 1000 years. Before further testing can occur, the space aliens notice the temporal signature and RAZE the facility and substructures. Hastily reconstructing the device, the new project managers assemble a ragtag force in the San Diego bay area and frantically gather resources and people. Splinter elements of: 1st Marine Div., 1st MEF, Seal Team One, 2 Sqdn/11ACR (OPFOR)(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Horse_Regiment), 7th PSYOP reserve, class 23-09 Intel school, 1/4 of the SDSU student body, and about 1000 migrant workers gaggle into the decks of the decomissioned Constellation and other conscripted cargo ships in the San Diego bay area. This assembly of peoples being renamed Joint Task Force Allende are now the first intentional force being sent somewhere in time with the alternative of staying and becoming a morsel for some creature with an unending hunger. It seemed with REAL Aliens having arrived and causing horrible amounts of carnage, the ILLEGAL Aliens stopped being such a problem. And having a skilled agrarian labor force at the final destination might prove Incredibly valuable. The Temporal Device relays positioned encompassed an area that included the USS Constellation, an assortment of various cargo ships, utility vessels, some small watercraft, and a few other vehicles. Thats about as far as I got. No ninjas were mistreated or hurt throughout the completion of this fragmented concept. Doug |
| #26zombiegleemaxMay 10, 2008 22:03:33 | Excellent work, Hinthas! If you want to set up the Earth2.0 Orphans thread, I have no problems with that. It's probably best to split the ideas as you suggested. I vote that before Project Meredeth, we decide on a location/time (and a reason for each) for Joint Task Force Allende to travel to. Both Backstabbist and Rhialto make good points... Is there a reason the US couldn't try for both advantages, making a base in NA and possibly covertly advancing Rome as well? The big problem I see with it is that giving the Romans better tech makes them a threat to our forces... but then if you want to look at it cynically, war technologies advance the quickest during war. >_> |
| #27rhialtoMay 11, 2008 0:45:14 | If the aliens have attacked the modern world equally, perhaps we could assume that there are at least four such projects being set up (USA, EU, India, and China). Hopefully, the four are going to cooperate. The USA group would most likely be travelling back to somewhere coastal in mainland USA. Main focus would be in developing a self-sufficient nation, as there weren't any civilizations sufficiently and centralised advanced to justify uplifting. The mesoamerican empires might come close (not sure about chronology here), but they were a little too bloodthirsty for this to work well. The EU, India, and China groups would be uplifting ancient Rome, India, and China, respectively. Around 1 AD, all three areas had large empires, with urbanisation and varying degrees of unification, and iron-age technology. I can see the USA and EU contingents cooperating closely, within the limitas of communications and transport available. The China contingent would probably make for a good "spoiler" force, working with the common goal of "make the aliens pay", but with an extra agenda of "make (Communist) China rule the world". India could play out as wanting to be above partisan politics. In any case, no modern group has the spare fuel reserves (unless using nuclear powered shipping) to burn on travelling to other major regions, as teh fuel would be needed for other things, and there is no immediate way tyo get more of a useable quality for the modern power plants. Making less-efficient plants from plans and parts (or a rebuilt lower-tech economy) and using locally-procured fuels would be possible, as such power plants tended to be more forgiving about fuel quality. Contact between the factions would be by longwave radio (no satellites), and possibly small groups (ie. PCs). eta: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:East-Hem_001ad.jpg is a map of Asia in 1 ad, which should give a better idea of things. |
| #28hinthasMay 11, 2008 2:12:02 | Whose to say that the Conscripted civilians won't already have ideas about splitting up into factions? This is California were talking about and my experience is them folks resent having being told to do anything by anyone. Remember the migrant workers? Gives them the chance to practice thier hobby nation of Aslan. This is a hispanic version of Deseret but three times larger or so the theory goes. And the SDSU students might (haha, who are we kidding?) have a few different ideas about regional balance as well. And what about the civilian cargo vessels pressed into service? What about the payloads they were carrying? I didn't mention the other nations because they weren't part of the original Philadelphia Experiment to begin with. I also wanted to imply that this Alien Invasion happened in the Here and Now and the US isn't on that good of terms (EU excluded) with those other nations. I wanted to suggest that this Invasion happened in a disturbingly rapid fashion and the Space Aliens would have made sure to kill any satellites in the atmosphere. There goes your global communication. Again, this campaign might be more fulfilling if the hometeam didn't have all the amenities that their previous timeline did. That and JTF Allende has a clean slate and can essentially set up shop wherever they please. Why bother with the Romans or any established culture? @Master Vega: Thanx for compliments and I'm even more thrilled that this concept is taking to the names I've given them by the community. @Doomsought: This was my idea of what would be recycled or salvaged after pitched battles with the Aliens. Shiploads of broken or traumatized peoples on a broken (decomissioned) ship. Last ditch effort that got superglued back together. You'll notice that I said "splintered elements". And its MUCH MORE likely the Hollywood makeup guys make this trip than the Ophans trip. Bring on the SUCK!!!! Doug |
| #29rhialtoMay 11, 2008 3:22:19 | Yes, whether or not the time travel technology reaches EU/China/India hands depends a lot on how rapidly the aliens destroy modern civilization. However, just because in pre-whoops Earth they have killed the satellite network, it doesn't mean long-range communication is dead. Longwave radio works regardless of satellites, an in an emergency, the pony express (or light aircraft express) could get important messages across. Depending on GM fiat, the technology could have spread enough for multiple missions to the past. |
| #30backstabbistMay 11, 2008 12:12:29 | Historical power aint as much as a problem as some think. Just have 5 or 6 guys spend 1 hour mapping out near surface coal seams in Pen & Ken, or artesian/shallow oil wells. Prospecting for coal/oil/copper is easier when you have a list of places we already found it. |
| #31rhialtoMay 11, 2008 14:14:14 | ok, you got your coal, oil, and copper. Heck, I'll even assume you've brought along a supply of parts to make modern vehicles. No need to bootstarp an entire industrial ecoomy and factories. Crude oil straight from the ground is going to absolutely destroy any modern engine after a few weeks of normal usage. You need to refine that stuff. or build more primitive engines, the likes of which almost certainly don't exist in stockpilable quantities ready to port back in time given teh assumed scenario. Refining that oil to the standards needed for modern ages requires a military-industrial complex that you aren't going to build in a short space of time. Without a lot of modern technology and teh means to power it, large, populous empires have a certain appeal. |
| #32backstabbistMay 11, 2008 16:29:13 | Steam power is both a primitive tech and advanced tech, the common blood between a nuke sub and a railroad locomotive: Primitive boilers for advanced efficiency steam trubines. Just filter the crude thru a pair of socks & run it thru a vaporizor/preheater on the way to the burner manifold in the boiler. Highly efficient? No. Highly easy & usable? Yup. The power output doesnt have to be density rated, that is to say we have plenty of space for huge boilers to make masive amounts of steam to replace the Nuke on the carrier. If we are pumping it from the ground straight into a boiler, conservation dont really apply for the fist several decades. Or just use my old army Duece, it would run on that sock-filtered crude. |
| #33hinthasMay 11, 2008 23:24:03 | That explains all the missing Army socks without pairs I've had over the years. The Engineers or Mechanics hired Ninjas to steal them. "CURSE YOU, AQUA SCUM!!!" except its probably Techie scum. Doug |
| #34rhialtoMay 12, 2008 2:40:25 | Steam power is both a primitive tech and advanced tech, Nuclear subs use neither coal nor oil as fuel. Railroad locomotives as often as not use diesel as fuel (electric being the other major option). Steam is considered obsolete tech for most railways these days. In either case, a train isn't going very far without the industrial complex needed to mass-manufacture and lay out some tracks. Engines of the type that fit into freely mobile vehicles that can readily available pretty much all use either nuclear (subs, aircraft carriers; very limited supply of such vehicles; irreplaceable, and strategic assets), or use refined petroleum (very hard to replenish supplies of this fuel without modern technology). Just filter the crude thru a pair of socks & run it thru a vaporizor/preheater on the way to the burner manifold in the boiler. Highly efficient? No. Highly easy & usable? Yup. The power output doesn't have to be density rated, that is to say we have plenty of space for huge boilers to make massive amounts of steam to replace the Nuke on the carrier. If we are pumping it from the ground straight into a boiler, conservation don't really apply for the fist several decades. I admit I'm no oil engineer, but according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_refinery, refining oil drawn from the ground is a bit more involved that just putting it through a sock. |
| #35hinthasMay 12, 2008 8:59:08 | I admit I'm no oil engineer, but according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_refinery, refining oil drawn from the ground is a bit more involved that just putting it through a sock. Not everyone that posts on Wiki knows what they're talking about. I try not to quote sources that are vague or have obvious contradictions in them, but I wasn't a part of the: design, manufacturing, application, infrastructure, address or any other part of the teams (with some exceptions) of the things I mention or quote. After a while, you just gotta HOPE the author knows what he's talking about. It's people like you, Rhialto, that make sure the rest of us try to be 100% in what we're taking about, cause if not, you might catch us in a fib or misrepresentation of the facts. Senator Clinton's Bosnia Sniper story for example. But without that part, the Army Deuce and a Half was a vehicle that was made to run on multiple fuel sources like I mentioned. More efficient with some fuels than others, but again it was designed to RUN on them. The rest of your post makes sense though. Steam Locomotive's are as good as the amount of rail they have to roll on. No infrastructure, no movement. Doug |
| #36backstabbistMay 12, 2008 10:29:14 | Mr 1800's had to use rails because he didnt have tire technology. We had 56000lb off road bigrigs dragging bulldozers thru the woods back in the 80's running on diesel. Just change "deisel" to "Crudefired-Steam" and run it again. Refining is great if you want just one specific hydrocarbon out of crude, like gasoline for spark engines, deisel for compression engines, or parafin.... but I dont care about the purity level of which specific flamable liquid is firing a boiler... they all burn when you heat crude to 1000degrees & shoot it into a airfed flaming box. Q: You want to run on Gas, Deisle, Parafin, or Propane in the boiler? A: All of them at once as Crude. Lets not pretend if we were stuck in Fargo when its 15below, that we would freeze to death because all we had was a drum of crude and a bunch of matches. Nuke subs dont run on "Nuke" they run on steam.... the steam comes from a boiler, and it is a Nuke Fired Boiler as opposed to a OilFired boiler or CoalFired boiler. It is a boiler. The iowa battlship didnt run big diesel engines, it burned a flamable liquid to make steam. The Duece is the one I am saying you can run the multifuel engine on crude filtered thru sox. I have a compression engine mounted to the front of my RC plane. It can run all kinds of different mixtures of fuel, some are just not as good as others. LandTrains of Crudefired steamengines on longnose-sleeper frame trucks with Cooper CC's on them will be just fine when the alternative is to use ox-wagon like the rest of that time period. Sure it cant do 90mph like a good deisel cummings could, but when there is no road you spend a lot more time at 20-35 than at 90. |
| #37hinthasMay 12, 2008 12:32:21 | Mr 1800's had to use rails because he didnt have tire technology. Again, when HOPE pays off, this is what it looks like. Demonstrating Where there's a will, there's a way. ESSAYONS, Backstabbist, ESSAYONS. Doug |
| #38backstabbistMay 12, 2008 17:46:21 | Right, so... What do we need (campaign) developed for this thing to move forward? Which topic branch are we running with in this thread, deliberate or hastey egress to the timeslip? |
| #39hinthasMay 12, 2008 18:09:39 | I think we were trying to figure out if this was gonna "keep on" going like this or if it should be split in two like I suggested. |
| #40rhialtoMay 13, 2008 0:49:27 | Mr 1800's had to use rails because he didnt have tire technology. See, posts like this is why I got sick of the other thread. Where to start? In the emergency situation implied in the backstory, you aren't going to have time to refit dozens of vehicles from diesel to steam. Our current industrial strength isn't geared up for it, and retooling isn't practical in the backstory outlined, and taking parts back in time to retool there would require a developed industry first. I know the weather isn't inhospitably cold. Suggesting I thought so (Fargo?) is kinda insulting. Nuke subs don't run on "NUKE". But they do run on radioactive isotopes, most notably processed uranium. The difference between what fuel nuclear plants run on is kind of irrelevant anyway. The fuel lasts long enough that refuelling isn't an issue, and the ones available are either installed in aircraft carriers or submarines (dumb to refit to conventional fuel sources), or immobile and built into large buildings, and so won't be porting back in time anyway. I know the Iowa ran on steam, not diesel. It's kind of insulting to automatically assume I didn't know that. In either case, seeing as how it's been decommissioned for 18 years, and was struck two years ago, it ain't coming back in time. The amount of work required to make a ww2 battleship operational after such a long period out of service is quite impressive. the amount of work required to build a harbour big enough and deep enough that it can dock without running aground is even more impressive. Unless you plan on loading and unloading by dugout canoe, even getting on board will be non-trivial without a harbour. I'm outta this thread. Peace. |
| #41hinthasMay 13, 2008 9:16:34 | Let's simmer down a few here..... Its great seeing engineering types like Stabby explaining bits and also good when guys like Rhialto try to poke holes in the concept but nobody needs to get butthurt about things. (honestly the tire idea is a stretch for me). This is the joy of discussing these ideas and figuring out What Could Go Wrong and when it does, what happens. Additionally, I'd like to point out not once did I mention for campaign concepts any of the following: Battleships, Submarines, USS IOWA, Fargo (that was kinda unfair), or Reactor Shelf Life (although this one will be important). Whether retooling what little society they bring with them is practical or not, it IS necessary. That little gem is something that both JTF Allende or the Orphans will have to do to achieve the kind of mobility they want. And the knowledge and components are readily accessible. I have personally had an Army mechanic explain to me the Why of a steam engine and How to make them. (Hello my name's ED. My favorite color is clear...black. Clear Black, yeah...) But as far as the means, EVERY Carrier has a Metal Shop in its decks and a good number of Cargo ships as well. Not a sophisticated engineering shop, but they do Good. VERY Good. Good enough to bang or weld together boilers of all shapes and sizes which is what we'll need. The important stuff might need a refit and its obviously not happening all at the same time. This is the Four Holes, Three Bathtub Stoppers problem with managing resources. Something's gonna get missed for a while. Dirge Operations are a very likely possibility that can be accomplished with a flat bottom barge (not dugout canoes), a massive steam powered scoop, and possibly explosives. All of this is possible in time, which the survivors now seem to have an abundance of. I'm off to the store to look for a six pack of Nuke. Somebody keep Stabbist AWAY from the socks. I don't want a foot full of stickybomb fixin's. Doug |