Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ChiefGully Nov 06, 2009 15:21:51	Several articles in this forum have arguments that alude to but it isn't real. Or they quote semi scientific data in hopes that people will think they have the right idea. While yes, some things are horribly broken with the moder-future weapon statistics lets actualy look at some real points here.   Acuracy: The initial acuracy of a weapon is simple enough to put into game mechanics bonuses to hit the attackers over all attack bonus and some over all penalties and bonuses for things like bi-pods and recoil right. Well then you get into aspects of firing position sight picture range windage glare Target contrast breathing distraction ect ect. this is alot to acount for so we assume that given a proficient person they have learned technuiques to overcome these modifiers..... Wait that isn't real. Damage Type: Balistic damage in general is actualy a misnomer, as the penitrating round does not impart damage based on its projectile path in direct relation to the interactions of imparted energy and gravity. It primarily deals damage on the transfer of kenetic energy, the same way a punch or a carcrash does. Acurate weapons rely on placing minimal kenetic energy to percise points for the most effective damage. Where as Brute weapons deal as much Kenetic energy to any area for the same purpose. Some one on here said that its the Force of the round citing the rating given by the weapon in question. Another person then corrected them citing that it was tisue damage... They are in a way both rite and both wrong the simplistic aproch would be tisue damage, this is a direct result of kenetic transfer modified by material statistics (lead rounds mushroom reulting in more tissue damage at comparative kenetic transfers). So now that we establish that the force and the damage that force does is directly corilated a word of warning, The statistics given for a round velocity and force are only given for Muzzle reference; that is the speed of a round as referenced is the Muzzle velocity the speed at which it leaves the muzzle. This is also true for the force expersions. Physics states that friction from air and the force of gravity have a depleating effect on the round after leaving the muzzle. I.E. the round begins to slow down. Now lets look at the thing that most people miss. a high energy low mass object as a projectile. Somthing like a sabot round (they go em for shoties) this does an extreemly high amount of damage not due to the Force or mass directly but shear velocity (the vacume trail does the most damage). Or hey hers another one you can kill some one with an object the size and shape of a needle at around 2inlb of force a far cry from the 127ftlb I have seen quoted here. So placement is a large portion of this equation as well. There are alot of other factors that peole never think about when making the But its not real reference. I guese my point is that even if you where to say have a degree in Balistic physics it would still be severly dificult to say that weapon A does XdX+X damage at +X acuracy. there are just way to many factors for an expersion that simple.   Befor people go off on rants let me say this I am not an expert in this field, my knowledge comes fro mthe Physics courses taken during my associates training as well as the training recieved from Military service. This is suplimented only by my independant research into balistic and aeronatical physics.
#2 backstabbist Nov 06, 2009 21:53:41	Not bad.     One more thing to consider is the Weapon Potential damage vs the target Imparted Damage. Place an elephant and a deer with side exposure at 200m, blast each with a practically identical (2rib, 2lung, some meat) shot from a 50BMG, and the deer will take FAR less actual tissue damage than elephant... the slug will exit the deer with more remaining KE than the slug exiting the elephant. Its the Paper Target metric: All firearms do the same damage, cause they all 100% penetrate a sheet of paper. All firearms do 1Damage, cause it only takes 1 damage to punch a paper. Obviously the flaw here is that only 1 sheet was used.  When we use a 400page phonebook instead we see many handgun calibers fail to exit, and thus we can rate them as 1-400 & Over400.  Add another few phonebooks and we can see how much in a scale of 1- 1600 & Over1600. Not sying that Penetration is the sole metric to use, but that the meter pegs maxed out when the meter is a human body to rate 300wm vs other calibers: We cant tell how much damage the 300wm does do, cause it still had more damage it could do when it exited. The serious firearms can do far more damage than the human body can measure, hence the Weapon Potential damage will be more or much more than the Target Imparted Damage.
#3 ChiefGully Nov 09, 2009 10:50:22	True, Its also worth mentioning the following.   HP are based on several factors to reach an abstract mesurement of survivability.   Physical resistance: the natural resistance the body has due to scartisue muscle training and other factors. Micro reactions: The body and mind work hella faster than can be consiously driven. the over all lying factor can turn a direct hit into a graze with out us ever actualy knowing how or even realizing that it happened. Dumb luck: Even given a perfect sharp shooter that can calculate all known variables. their are still micro cosms that at range affect target trajectory and balistic path. This gives a mesure of luck though be it small to every target when impacted by a balistic object. Now why alot of these only affect the target and or ballistic object minutely you must remember when dealing with the human body it is those minute differences that mean a punctured lung versus a bullet loged in your rib.