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Fx items and Purchase dc's

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
macthetank
Feb 09, 2009 15:02:16 Well here comes the question that no one can seem to agree on with my campaign.
Can a master crafted weapon be enhanced later on, or does it have to be bought enhanced?

Yes there's more than one question, but it has to do with Purchase Dc's of magic items.
Given that a Light UC vest is a purchase dc of 13, to get a DR 5 (any) and +1 to defense light UC vest (as I understand it) would be as follows:
The vest = DC 13
Mastercrafting = +3 (to the dc for a +1)
DR enhancement of +2 = +13 (+1 for the DR5 and +1 for the enhancement based on the core rulebook)
So a total purchace dc of 29, correct?

Am I missing something/calculating things wrong? I can't seem to figure out a solid jargon between the two books (UA and Core) to figure out how the DR of +1 to the DC modifier. As I understand it, a +1 enhancment to a weapon (like returning) would add a +10 to the purchase dc. Not +1 to the purchase dc.
#2
degausser
Feb 09, 2009 19:06:12 Enchanting and money has always been a bit weird with Wizards. First off, according to old DnD rules, a piece of magic armor or weaponry must be mastercraft before being enchanted, and the mastercraft bonus is "lost" (factored into the new item.) Thus, any weapon that is to be enchanted in the game must 'Start off' as mastercraft, but takes away -3 from the Purchase DC to make the item magic. (The purchase DC for magic includes assuming the item is mastercraft already.)

Secondly, enchanting an item with special abilities (like returning or wounding) requires that the item first has a +1 bonus enchantment minimum. Again, this is according to DnD rules, but it seems to be backed up in D20 Modern.

Thirdly, there was a bullet points some time back, I believe, that stated that, even in a UA campaign, players are not meant to enchant suits of armor or weapons. That is why there is no "Craft magic item" feat in the game, because, despite the fact that a UA game has magic, it still isn't well known. The magical theories for purposefully enchanting items are still up for debate. Magic items are things that are supposed to be found in ancient temples or off of shadow creatures from some far-flung realm. I never just let my PCs go to the 'magic item shop' and buy something, mainly because they never found anyone to buy off of. They might find one or two magic items that fell into the possession of a curio shop owner or something, but there is defiantly no Mage Mart in my campaigns!

Now, that being said, if you as the GM want to allow magic item creation, or you want to make new stuff, you can probably work backwards to figure them out. Charged Nunchaku have a Purchase DC of 23 for a +1 pair. Now, the purchase DC for Nunchaku are 3, and to make them +1 is +10 (resulting in a purchase DC of 13), so the purchase DC to make something shocking is +10. [3(Nunchaku)+10(+1 magic)+x(Shocking)]=23.

Thusly: A +1 shocking Katana is Purchase DC 32 (12 for Katana, +10 for magic, +10 for shocking)
#3
macthetank
Feb 10, 2009 15:10:32 Granted, yes. There's no real way to buy a magic item just in general. The idea that I wanted to set up is that people picked their weapons that they want to fight with. Instead of making routine drops that are for specific players who want their initial items, I've given them access to artificers that can do enhancements at +1 right now, then it'll go up from there later on.

What I want to know is does a +1 enhancement of frost to a weapon add a +10 to the dc? or is it +10 for the enhancement and +1 to the dc for frost? From what you're saying, it sounds like it would be the former. We had a conflict of beliefs as to the correlation between the +1 in Urban Arcana and the chart for +1, +2, +3 in the Core rulebook under fx items.

The katana you spoke of didn't have the +3 for mastercrafting added into the price, was that intentional?
#4
backstabbist
Feb 10, 2009 15:58:37 BulletPoints http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/bp/20040504a

I was wondering why the abilities to craft wondrous items, rings, and staffs aren't available to the Artificer. Also, the Urban Arcana book doesn't give rules on adding a special quality -- such as flaming or producing a sleep effect on a successful hit -- to a weapon. Are staffs, rings, wondrous items, and weapons with special abilities found only as treasure? Or do we have to wait for another book to get the rest of the item creation rules?

The d20 Modern game has no rules for crafting staffs, rings, or wondrous items, or for adding special abilities to weapons or armor. The game assumes that such items are brought in from Shadow, not manufactured in the modern world.

However, it's quite possible to adapt the item creation rules from D&D for d20 Modern, if you wish. Here's an easy way.
Calculate the price for creating the item using the D&D rules.
Multiply that price by 20.
Find an equivalent purchase DC using Table 7-1: Purchase DCs in the d20 Modern Roleplaying Game rulebook.
Add 1 to that DC for a Mage (assuming that you allow Mages to make these items at all), or subtract 1 from it for an Artificer.

Artificers should have to choose forge ring, craft staff, or craft wondrous item as specific item creation talents in order to make the corresponding items. Vehicular magic items fall into the wondrous items category.

You could also rule that an Artificer can add special properties to weapons or armor using his magic mastercraft ability. To figure out the costs, just apply the purchase DC modifier to the raw materials cost.

What does that mean.... dunno, but I hope you guys get it worked out
#5
degausser
Feb 10, 2009 17:59:56
Granted, yes. There's no real way to buy a magic item just in general. The idea that I wanted to set up is that people picked their weapons that they want to fight with. Instead of making routine drops that are for specific players who want their initial items, I've given them access to artificers that can do enhancements at +1 right now, then it'll go up from there later on.

What I want to know is does a +1 enhancement of frost to a weapon add a +10 to the dc? or is it +10 for the enhancement and +1 to the dc for frost? From what you're saying, it sounds like it would be the former. We had a conflict of beliefs as to the correlation between the +1 in Urban Arcana and the chart for +1, +2, +3 in the Core rulebook under fx items.

The katana you spoke of didn't have the +3 for mastercrafting added into the price, was that intentional?

In both D20 Modern and DnD, it doesn't really matter what you are enchanting. Enchanting something is crazy expensive. The process takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, and a lot of money. Thus, having the base item to start out with isn't a big factor when putting price into perspective. I just did the calculations, and having a masterwork Nunchaku present or not doesn't effect the PrDC of a +1 Nunchaku at all. (I.E. +1 Nunchaku are PRDC13, which is $275. Masterwork Nunchaku are $40. $275-$40=$235, which is still Purchase DC13.)

However, if you really want to allow it, I would just GM fiat that having the masterwork item lowers the Purchase DC by 3. This is the reduced value of selling used items, so I figure it's a good number to go by.

Similarly, adding Shocking to an already +1 weapon doesn't effect the price, but if you really want to put it in there, I would have it lower the Purchase DC similarly by 3.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 macthetank Feb 09, 2009 15:02:16	Well here comes the question that no one can seem to agree on with my campaign. Can a master crafted weapon be enhanced later on, or does it have to be bought enhanced? Yes there's more than one question, but it has to do with Purchase Dc's of magic items. Given that a Light UC vest is a purchase dc of 13, to get a DR 5 (any) and +1 to defense light UC vest (as I understand it) would be as follows: The vest = DC 13 Mastercrafting = +3 (to the dc for a +1) DR enhancement of +2 = +13 (+1 for the DR5 and +1 for the enhancement based on the core rulebook) So a total purchace dc of 29, correct? Am I missing something/calculating things wrong? I can't seem to figure out a solid jargon between the two books (UA and Core) to figure out how the DR of +1 to the DC modifier. As I understand it, a +1 enhancment to a weapon (like returning) would add a +10 to the purchase dc. Not +1 to the purchase dc.
#2 degausser Feb 09, 2009 19:06:12	Enchanting and money has always been a bit weird with Wizards. First off, according to old DnD rules, a piece of magic armor or weaponry must be mastercraft before being enchanted, and the mastercraft bonus is "lost" (factored into the new item.) Thus, any weapon that is to be enchanted in the game must 'Start off' as mastercraft, but takes away -3 from the Purchase DC to make the item magic. (The purchase DC for magic includes assuming the item is mastercraft already.) Secondly, enchanting an item with special abilities (like returning or wounding) requires that the item first has a +1 bonus enchantment minimum. Again, this is according to DnD rules, but it seems to be backed up in D20 Modern. Thirdly, there was a bullet points some time back, I believe, that stated that, even in a UA campaign, players are not meant to enchant suits of armor or weapons. That is why there is no "Craft magic item" feat in the game, because, despite the fact that a UA game has magic, it still isn't well known. The magical theories for purposefully enchanting items are still up for debate. Magic items are things that are supposed to be found in ancient temples or off of shadow creatures from some far-flung realm. I never just let my PCs go to the 'magic item shop' and buy something, mainly because they never found anyone to buy off of. They might find one or two magic items that fell into the possession of a curio shop owner or something, but there is defiantly no Mage Mart in my campaigns! Now, that being said, if you as the GM want to allow magic item creation, or you want to make new stuff, you can probably work backwards to figure them out. Charged Nunchaku have a Purchase DC of 23 for a +1 pair. Now, the purchase DC for Nunchaku are 3, and to make them +1 is +10 (resulting in a purchase DC of 13), so the purchase DC to make something shocking is +10. [3(Nunchaku)+10(+1 magic)+x(Shocking)]=23. Thusly: A +1 shocking Katana is Purchase DC 32 (12 for Katana, +10 for magic, +10 for shocking)
#3 macthetank Feb 10, 2009 15:10:32	Granted, yes. There's no real way to buy a magic item just in general. The idea that I wanted to set up is that people picked their weapons that they want to fight with. Instead of making routine drops that are for specific players who want their initial items, I've given them access to artificers that can do enhancements at +1 right now, then it'll go up from there later on. What I want to know is does a +1 enhancement of frost to a weapon add a +10 to the dc? or is it +10 for the enhancement and +1 to the dc for frost? From what you're saying, it sounds like it would be the former. We had a conflict of beliefs as to the correlation between the +1 in Urban Arcana and the chart for +1, +2, +3 in the Core rulebook under fx items. The katana you spoke of didn't have the +3 for mastercrafting added into the price, was that intentional?
#4 backstabbist Feb 10, 2009 15:58:37	BulletPoints http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/bp/20040504a I was wondering why the abilities to craft wondrous items, rings, and staffs aren't available to the Artificer. Also, the Urban Arcana book doesn't give rules on adding a special quality -- such as flaming or producing a sleep effect on a successful hit -- to a weapon. Are staffs, rings, wondrous items, and weapons with special abilities found only as treasure? Or do we have to wait for another book to get the rest of the item creation rules? The d20 Modern game has no rules for crafting staffs, rings, or wondrous items, or for adding special abilities to weapons or armor. The game assumes that such items are brought in from Shadow, not manufactured in the modern world. However, it's quite possible to adapt the item creation rules from D&D for d20 Modern, if you wish. Here's an easy way. Calculate the price for creating the item using the D&D rules. Multiply that price by 20. Find an equivalent purchase DC using Table 7-1: Purchase DCs in the d20 Modern Roleplaying Game rulebook. Add 1 to that DC for a Mage (assuming that you allow Mages to make these items at all), or subtract 1 from it for an Artificer. Artificers should have to choose forge ring, craft staff, or craft wondrous item as specific item creation talents in order to make the corresponding items. Vehicular magic items fall into the wondrous items category. You could also rule that an Artificer can add special properties to weapons or armor using his magic mastercraft ability. To figure out the costs, just apply the purchase DC modifier to the raw materials cost. What does that mean.... dunno, but I hope you guys get it worked out
#5 degausser Feb 10, 2009 17:59:56	Granted, yes. There's no real way to buy a magic item just in general. The idea that I wanted to set up is that people picked their weapons that they want to fight with. Instead of making routine drops that are for specific players who want their initial items, I've given them access to artificers that can do enhancements at +1 right now, then it'll go up from there later on. What I want to know is does a +1 enhancement of frost to a weapon add a +10 to the dc? or is it +10 for the enhancement and +1 to the dc for frost? From what you're saying, it sounds like it would be the former. We had a conflict of beliefs as to the correlation between the +1 in Urban Arcana and the chart for +1, +2, +3 in the Core rulebook under fx items. The katana you spoke of didn't have the +3 for mastercrafting added into the price, was that intentional? In both D20 Modern and DnD, it doesn't really matter what you are enchanting. Enchanting something is crazy expensive. The process takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, and a lot of money. Thus, having the base item to start out with isn't a big factor when putting price into perspective. I just did the calculations, and having a masterwork Nunchaku present or not doesn't effect the PrDC of a +1 Nunchaku at all. (I.E. +1 Nunchaku are PRDC13, which is $275. Masterwork Nunchaku are $40. $275-$40=$235, which is still Purchase DC13.) However, if you really want to allow it, I would just GM fiat that having the masterwork item lowers the Purchase DC by 3. This is the reduced value of selling used items, so I figure it's a good number to go by. Similarly, adding Shocking to an already +1 weapon doesn't effect the price, but if you really want to put it in there, I would have it lower the Purchase DC similarly by 3.