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| #1stplong1981Aug 10, 2009 22:53:46 | Figured the d20 forums would be the better place to ask (as the SW system doesn't seem interested on low gee upbringings). What I've been wrestling with a bit is this. Not all planets in a campaign setting in space are gonna have earth normal gee ratings. So, being raised in a higher, or lower, gee rating, what effect might that have on the player and how can we as GMs translate that into game terms. I was thinking stat changes. Like stronger from higher gees, dex from lower, soemthing like that. |
| #2backstabbistAug 10, 2009 23:18:24 | High G, +Str +Con You need lots of muscle and the bone structure to not crush yourself lifting a spare tire. Stronger muscle, stronger bones, more stamina so you can walk across the street carrying 600lb (your e600lb body) Low G, -Str -Con Frail, cause the species never needed to be sturdy. You can get a broken arm if the wind blows hard... a punch in the face can be lethal |
| #3stplong1981Aug 10, 2009 23:28:53 | I'd rather add Dex to low gee as well, only becuase when you think about it, you would be a lot more acrobatic. After you got used to other gees, you'd be a bit better off than most. I just don't want to give my players no reason to ever come from a low gee world. |
| #4rhialtoAug 11, 2009 2:29:34 | I'd add a Dex penalty in the high-G mix as well. And throw in the appropriate gravity adptation feats for free (plus a note that the character can't ever take the gravity adptation feat from the opposite environment). |
| #5TheRealOrionAug 11, 2009 2:33:04 | Wouldn't someone who lived on a high-gravity world who then proceeded to a lower-gravity environment quickly experience muscle deterioration? I mean, human astronauts lose a lot of muscle from being up in space, and that's only over a few months. These bonuses you're talking about would fade pretty fast, I'd imagine. |
| #6rhialtoAug 11, 2009 3:17:16 | If it were just a case of "my grandparents moved to highgravwurld, and now I'm back on Earth", fair enough, no real change from a regular human. But make that 500+ years of living there, with natural selection in full force (ie. not using artifical gravity to enforce a more comfortable gravity), and I'd be inclined to allow "high grav worlder" as an alternate race, with differentiated stats. |
| #7atanakarAug 11, 2009 5:47:23 | High G planets would probably produce shorter and stalkier races simillar to D&D dwarves or even rampant races in extreme gravity. +CON, -DEX, +STR Low gravity planets would probably produce tall and slim beings. Speed would probably be a good survival strategy so multiple legs (4,6) could be a common trait. +DEX, -CON, +INT |
| #8DwarfFighterAug 11, 2009 7:30:48 | We are talking about player characters, right? How about this: Assume that a high-gravity world character interacts with his default environment in the same way a medium-gravity world character interacts with his, and the same for a low-gravity world character. With this in mind you can ignore gravity as a factor for determining racial ability score modifiers. A human has +0 to all ability scores regardless of his home-world's gravity. You can then apply the d20 Future gravity effects when the characters operate off-world relative to their natural conditions. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Environment_and_Hazards#GRAVITY E.g. a high-gravity world character in a medium-gravity environment is affected as if he were a medium-gravity world character in a low-gravity environment. -DF |
| #9backstabbistAug 11, 2009 8:48:30 | I just dont follow the idea that a Hi-G race is stronger than G, but G is not Stronger than Lo-G. If Hi-G is stronger than G, then you have to say G is stringer than Lo-G. Why would 2x be stronger than X, but not 2x stronger than X a different time? 2G:G and G:HalfG. Why would Lo-G folks be more nimble? A person from G that opperates in Lo-G might be, but if you grew up weak because weak was strong enough, then all the concepts that its easier to do things fall apart. Changing a tire is easier for a G on a Lo-G than it is fo a Lo-G on a Lo-G.... to him it is plain old tire changing without anything being "lighter" than he evolved to be used to. There is nothing that the Lo-G folks had to evolve to that would give them more Dex than Terrans. Sure the little parts their workers solder on circuit boards have less weight, but the workers have evolved to have less strength so to them it is normal... and evolution with normal activities beget normal dex. Why would folks want to come from a Lo-G, penalties with no bonuses? Why would folks want to come from slumdog peasants, malnutrition based frailty with no bonuses. AGB can just create bonuses for the game, but there is no need to try to use logic to explain it. Lets just say Lo-G makes you weak but Smarter. Why? Why not, we need top put some artifical bonus in. |
| #10stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 9:32:15 | I just dont follow the idea that a Hi-G race is stronger than G, but G is not Stronger than Lo-G. I'd definitely agree that earth normal would be better than low gee just as much as high g is better than earth normal. But that's why we can use Earth Normal as 0 across the board and add or subtract to create the variants. I should add a bit more data. The idea is that for a few hundred years people have been living on different gravitations (even if we didn't go past sol, this would still be true with Mars, moons, etc). Since this is designed for a custom campaign setting I am working on (Where I won't be releasing alien races for awhile) I want the players to have variety in human options. That, and most Gee ratings for planets won't be crazy. I won't have a 0.10g planet or a 5.00g planet, but rather earth normal +/0.25-0.50. Anyone from any g rating can eventually proceed to another g rating, just takes time. But I'd also agree that a high gee denizen would be stalky, far more muscle mass, and far more durable (I'd give them +str, +con, -dex). I was thinking about low gee denizens last night, and I got caught up in images and stories people have written about low gee life without getting caught up in their works about going back to earth normal. I suspect a low gee denizen would be manually dexterous, tall and thin, but I don't think constitution would change, only because they'd have to survive the transference to higher gee. I figure six months in a hospital bed might balance out any consitution modifiers. I suppose for low gee denizens, I would be saying a general +dex (since that would apply to fine motor controls and weapons use) -str, and possibly +int. |
| #11rhialtoAug 11, 2009 9:45:15 | These stats assume about 500 years of adaptation to the new gravity. Low-G Worlder: -2 Str, +2 Dex, Low-G Adaptation bonus feat High-G Worlder: +2 Str, -2 Dex, High-G Adaptation bonus feat. Basically, the natural strength of these humans has shifted slightly as a result of adaptation toward their new environment. But that strength is still closer to terran norms than that of a creature that had evolved there for millions of years. That's why the dexterity bonus/penalty is still there. |
| #12stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 9:47:23 | I like the concept, and giving it a short adaptation period means the players aren't tied to their gee ratings, they can go to other worlds with minimal complications (of course, some suits might be required). |
| #13stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 9:59:15 | Wouldn't someone who lived on a high-gravity world who then proceeded to a lower-gravity environment quickly experience muscle deterioration? I mean, human astronauts lose a lot of muscle from being up in space, and that's only over a few months. These bonuses you're talking about would fade pretty fast, I'd imagine. but think about human growth. A high gee denizen would have dense bones and structure, even if he experienced gravity sickness by going to a low gee world, he'd be more suited to extreme muscle mass, like a cave man versus us. |
| #14stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 10:07:20 | Okay, toss a few extra things onto Rhialto's idea, just thought it'd be a nice addition. Low Gee Adaptation : +2dex, +2int, -2str : +1d10 to overall character height : -2d4lbs to overall character weight : a low gee denizen has an increased chance of bones breaking in close combat situations High Gee Adaptation : +2str, +2con, -2dex : -1d10 to overall all character height : +1d6 to overall character weight (represents denser bones) : Bonus to Carrying Capacity (not sure what yet) |
| #15rhialtoAug 11, 2009 10:25:12 | For the Low-G guy, I'm not sure the Int bonus makes sense. I would, however, give him a +4 racial bonus on Climb, and Jump instead, reflecting their rep for being agile movers. I'm not sure about giving the High-G guy a carrying capacity bonus. +2 Strength already represents an extra 33% carrying capacity bonus over a vanilla terran. I'd give him the "stable" ability that D&D dwarves have though. It makes sense. |
| #16stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 10:45:38 | hadn't thought of stable, very good call. Thanks |
| #17TheRealOrionAug 11, 2009 11:51:59 | but think about human growth. A high gee denizen would have dense bones and structure, even if he experienced gravity sickness by going to a low gee world, he'd be more suited to extreme muscle mass, like a cave man versus us. Strength isn't an innate quality, though. You can lose muscle-mass. Just ask any middle-aged former athlete. Maybe the Con bonus remains, but not the Strength. If you want to be logical/realistic about it. That said, "I'm from a high-gravity world" is a pretty common gag in SF to give a character super-strength. If it's an established generic conceit, then who am I to stand in your way? |
| #18stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 13:55:24 | look at my quote Orion, I didn't say the character innately has strength, just a propensity towards it. Neanderthal's possessed denser bone mass, as well as bigger bones, to support more musculature. The same would probably occur in adaptation on a higher gee world, where more physical exertion is needed to make something happen. Take that individual then, and transfer them to a earth normal environment. Gravity sickness and acclimation requires bedrest, so they lose mass. But they don't lose the bone density and structure to support heavier, better muscle mass. So, a high gee adaptation allows the character to be stronger, more muscled. They could easily maintain the higher "Caveman" style muscle mass, and still be that hulking brute. Not innately, just more likely. Darwin at work I suppose. |
| #19stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 14:12:33 | Okay, this is looking really good. Low Gee Adaptation : +2dex, -2str : +1d10" to overall character height : -2d6lbs to overall character weight : +4 racial bonus to climb/jump skill : Fragile: To represent the character's low gee heritage, they have a high tendency to breaking bones in close combat grabs and grapples. This is represented in game by a 1d4 damage roll in any grab/grapple combat situation. High Gee Adaptation : +2str, +2con, -2dex : -1d10" to overall all character height : +1d6lbs to overall character weight (represents denser bones) : Sturdy: Because of the character's muscle mass and bone density, when an attack or action may knock you into the prone position, you can immediately make a saving throw to recover from it. |
| #20narukagamiAug 11, 2009 14:23:48 | I don't see how the lowG character should be getting any kind of physical bonuses at all. Going from LowG to G he'll find his movements much more restricted and awkward due to the new resistances and weight he's experiencing. And a bonus to jump and climb? He'd have an even harder time accomplishing simple tasks, let alone those tasks, due to the new environment. He may even find these tasks down right impossible. He'd probably break his legs jumping up and down due to the loss of bone density. There is a reason astronauts returning from zero G after long periods of time are wheelchair ridden for months until they can recuperate. |
| #21rhialtoAug 11, 2009 15:00:55 | Actually, on second thought, the climb/jump bonus was kind wrong. i was basing it off the actual environement modifier in D20F chapter 4. But that environment modifier is plenty enough on its own. I think the light worlder is best left with +2 Dex, -2 Str. Without any other bonus (and I can't see anything obvious to give them), that brittle bones thing you have going for them seems unnecessarily harsh when it happens, and highly circumstantial otherwise. Perhaps this: Slight Build: You are treated as one size category smaller (for example, medium -> small) for purposes of carrying capacity, bull rush, overrun, grappling, and trip attacks. Specifically, this includes x3/4 normal carrying capacity, -4 on grapple checks, -4 on bull rush, -4 on trip, and -4 on overrun checks. If we include slight build, I'd probably want to grant some kind of extra bonus. Perhaps +2 on Reflex saves might be appropriate? ---- Here's what d20 Future has to say about the Planetary Adaptation feat... * High-G World: +2 Str. -6 inches height. * Low-G World: +2 Dex. +6 inches height. I think the above might be appropraite for a first or second generation off-worlder, but we are designing for ~500 years of post-human selective breeding in a new environment. The above feat is inadequate to describe that. ---- I decided to see what GURPS Bio-Tech (3e) has to say on this issue... Heavy Worlder: +3 strength, +1 health, Improved G-Tolerance (0.5 G increment, home gravity set to 1.5-2 G), Unattractive. Apparently, heavy worlders are ugly, which is probably good for -2 Cha in d20 terms. Otoh, we probably don't want to make heavy worlders into substitute orcs. Light Worlder: -2 strength, -1 health, longer arms (+1 reach), home gravity is 0.2-0.7 G I'm not sure how any of this could translate into d20 in a way we haven't already examined. |
| #22stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 15:21:52 | First off, Narukgami, I'm mostly using the +dex for low gee worlds to reflect a manual dexterity, not a gymnists dexterity. They're nimble of finger and keen of eye, sort of a thing, so the +dex is mostly for better shooting, at least that's how I saw it. agreed, thats why I'm not using the d20 feats for this, because they are a little sub par. I'll definitely keep the slight build concept you put down, it sums up what I was thinking about (sadly at work, no resources to really tinker with, nor the significant time I want). I don't see either gravity effect having a wis or cha modifier, as that shouldn't matter. That's the problem with GURPs though, their system is really far out there compared to the WOTC content. I really do think the low gee denizen needs an INT bonus. I know this is going to sound stereotypical, but I'd imagine a low gee denizen much like a 90 pound weakling. The smart kid who can't swing a bat. They realise their deficit on normal and high gee worlds, but make up for it by being smarter than the rest, also it balances out the ability score modifiers between both options. Other than that, I don't think low gee worlds need anything else, unless there's something we can steal from halflings to relfect that smaller size. So far, I'm going with this Gravitational Adaptation Traits Low Gee Adaptation : +2dex, -2str, +2int : +1d10" to overall character height : -2d6lbs to overall character weight : Slight Build: You are treated as one size category smaller (for example, medium -> small) for purposes of carrying capacity, bull rush, overrun, grappling, and trip attacks. Specifically, this includes x3/4 normal carrying capacity, -4 on grapple checks, -4 on bull rush, -4 on trip, and -4 on overrun checks. High Gee Adaptation : +2str, +2con, -2dex : -1d10" to overall all character height : +1d6lbs to overall character weight (represents denser bones) : Sturdy: Because of the character's muscle mass and bone density, when an attack or action may knock you into the prone position, you can immediately make a saving throw to recover from it. |
| #23rhialtoAug 11, 2009 15:39:10 | I think the GURPS Unattractive feature for heavy worlders is believable in a sense. It reflects that the average heavy worlder is built short, squat, barrel-chested, with thicker arms and legs, and movements that tend to be less flowing and graceful. This is pretty much the antithesis of the commonly-held ideals of beauty. The Cha penalty is justified, although I'd want to ignore it mainly to stop heavy worlders from becoming "orcs". I am a bit concerned that the light worlder is, statistically, a much worse option. That ability score modifiers balance out, but the other features are penalties in every way for the light worlder, and bonuses in every way for the heavy worlder. I do think the light worlder needs something extra for balance. |
| #24stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 15:42:37 | perhaps a benefit to sensory perceptions? I mean, in a lower gee world, chances are the atmo is thinner as well and sound travels far less distance wise. The Human ear would strain to hear more, in an Earth Normal environment, this might result in a very keen sense of hearing for the low gee denizen. |
| #25rhialtoAug 11, 2009 15:57:36 | By that logic, a penalty on Listen would be appropriate for heavy worlders too. Are you intending for these races to get the standard human bonus skill points and bonus feat, in addition to their racial modifiers? And are you aiming for a particular level adjustment? |
| #26TheRealOrionAug 11, 2009 16:09:37 | I'm sorry but this just makes no sense. You're trying to shoe-horn "balanced" character-creation options into the concept of high/low-G worlds. The two are only tangentially related and the underlying desire to make them "balanced" is forcing you to make less and less logical choices. There is no reason a low-G person will have higher dexterity and all kinds of reasons why they would have a lower one. There's no reason why a high-G person will have a lower charisma either, unless we assume that being barrel-chested and muscled is universally repugnant to all viewers (hint: it isn't). Plus, I'm still not convinced that a high-G person wouldn't just experience muscle atrophy the moment they go off-world, and I suspect a low-G person would build some muscle mass. If you want to retain it as a staple of golden-age SF and space opera then go ahead and have fun, but don't claim it's scientific and don't trot out Darwin to try to justify your position. So how about this, instead of using tortured logic to try to make this biographical detail have a numerical effect on the game (i.e., I take the "Low-G" option so my character takes a -4 to Strength), why not just leave it as a potential explanation for your character's stats (i.e., my character has a low Strength, so I say "I'm from a low-G world")? Seems much simpler to me and it takes care of the faulty universality. That's all I'll say about that. Clearly I'm in the minority in thinking that this whole idea is a bit loopy. |
| #27stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 16:17:40 | Orion, you're referencing data that Rhialto and I aren't using. For example, we both said no to the high gee denizen losing charisma. Then, no where have I said a high gee character would inheritently lose muscle mass. Atrophy yes, because that's what happens, but they'd be built to regain the mass and get more than an earth normal would. See my reasons via the neadnerthals. As far as dexterity for low gee, I guess no one is really reading my words, just every other word. I think a low gee denizen would have a HIGHER MANUAL DEXTERITY. That doesn't mean they would be acrobats or gymnaists, no no, manual dexterity means a higher dexterity of the HANDS. Which, too be honest, makes sense to me, when you watch all the hand work needed in a zero gee environment versus Earth Normal. As I've stated before, the Dex bonus is there to represent that HAND dexterity. Edit: yes, this would build on top of human normal. So the entry for Humans applies to Earth, then you take that entry and add Low/High Gee to create the base for a human from say Mars or Alpha Proxima 2 or something. To Rhialto: What I'm working towards is a campaign system without other races. So I'd like to see some variety as far as humans go. I won't have aliens like in SW, but humans with long lineages from other planets, and so I'm trying to put a system together. Originally I was thinking Major benefits/losses from gravity effects as well as minor benefits/losses from environments. So, a Low Gee cold world, might have all sorts of factors versus Earth normal, and not all of them beneficial. Balance isn't the name of the game for me here, if it was about balance, I'd be offering bigger benefits than +2 (not a huge jump really). Edit: Rhialto, yes, this would all stack on top of the basic human racial option in any RPG. |
| #28rhialtoAug 11, 2009 16:43:18 | Under RAW, a character takes 1d6 Str damage anytime they travel to a higher-G area, or 1d6 Dex damage anytime they travel to a lower-G area. Given that this recovers at one point per day, this is insanely mild in RL terms, but probably necessary for playability. Except for issues concerning the intensity / duration of this penalty, I don't think we need to concern ourselves farther with questions about what happens when these guys migrate. So, as I understand it, these variant races are getting the vanilla human bonus feat and skill points, in addition to "variant origin templates", and the overall goal is +0 LA, although balance takes second place to space opera. I think I'd give the heavy worlders a -2 on Listen, and light worlders a +2 on Listen. This is based on assumptions about the atmospheric density they are accustomed to, and the consequences that would have on levels of hearing ability and darwinian selection. The more I think about it, the more a +2 reflex save for light worlders makes sense. Since they know they are physically frailer, they'd make that much more effort to avoid impact injuries in the first place, which is reflected in a better reflex save. This is more justifiable than the Listen check issue actually. |
| #29atanakarAug 11, 2009 16:47:13 | Or ... low-grav races could have developped exoskeleton/power suits to compensate for their weaker constitution. |
| #30rhialtoAug 11, 2009 16:52:30 | If they were using tech advances (such as exoskeletons) to compensate, then any darwinian-based justification for changes in characteristics is thrown out the window. |
| #31TheRealOrionAug 11, 2009 17:03:31 | But your mechanic doesn't match your rationale. A High-G person would be able to build more muscle mass faster than a Norm-G person. That's not the equivalent of a +X to Strength. Similarly, someone with a great deal of manual dexterity shouldn't get a flat +Y to their all-around Dexterity. It seems to me that you're just building D&D-style races (which evidently already exist in Future?) and using a Sci-Fi rationale for them. |
| #32narukagamiAug 11, 2009 17:08:33 | I agree with Orion. Particularly if you're looking to give the low G people a bonus for great manual dexterity, a flat bonus to Dex encompasses too much. A bonus to checks involving manual dexterity would be more appropriate. |
| #33TheRealOrionAug 11, 2009 17:19:42 | That's what I was thinking, actually. Given the rationale that you're using, a bonus to certain specific skills would make more sense, like Sleight of Hand and Disable Device for example, but not Tumbling or Balance. |
| #34atanakarAug 11, 2009 18:11:46 | But your mechanic doesn't match your rationale. A High-G person would be able to build more muscle mass faster than a Norm-G person. That's not the equivalent of a +X to Strength. Similarly, someone with a great deal of manual dexterity shouldn't get a flat +Y to their all-around Dexterity. It seems to me that you're just building D&D-style races (which evidently already exist in Future?) and using a Sci-Fi rationale for them. And what is YOUR proposition? Seems to me you spend more time looking for what you perceive as incoherence in other users proposal than proposing something yourself about the topic the thread. For my part I'm content with just throwing ideas around (some bad/some good) to help the OP do HIS GM job. @Rialto : Yes and no. Power suits are not infailiable and would impose other restrictions on the PC. Technology has a tendancy to breakdown at the worst possible moment... LOL |
| #35TheRealOrionAug 11, 2009 18:39:56 | And what is YOUR proposition? Seems to me you spend more time looking for what you perceive as incoherence in other users proposal than proposing something yourself about the topic the thread. Well, there was: So how about this, instead of using tortured logic to try to make this biographical detail have a numerical effect on the game (i.e., I take the "Low-G" option so my character takes a -4 to Strength), why not just leave it as a potential explanation for your character's stats (i.e., my character has a low Strength, so I say "I'm from a low-G world")? Seems much simpler to me and it takes care of the faulty universality. and: That's what I was thinking, actually. Given the rationale that you're using, a bonus to certain specific skills would make more sense, like Sleight of Hand and Disable Device for example, but not Tumbling or Balance. And just off the top of my head: if you really want a "high Str/Con" race and a "high Dex/Int" race then just build them. The low/high gravity justification is superfluous. For my part I'm content with just throwing ideas around (some bad/some good) to help the OP do HIS GM job. This is a good point. There's a fine line between offering a critique and just dismissing someone's idea. I was in fact trying to do the former, but if I slipped into the latter then I apologise. I would still argue, though, that the rationale doesn't match the proposed mechanic. So in the spirit of suggesting a fourth option for the OP: Instead of a flat +2 to Strength, High-G characters get can apply their +1 attribute at 4th level (and 8th, 12th, etc.) to Dex, Con, Wis, Int, Cha for a +1 to the attribute, or they can apply it for a +2 to Strength, because their bodies are capable of higher strengths and they build strength more easily. The Con bonus could stay, although if you want to get technical about it I think that being in a Zero-G environment causes you to lose bone density as well. |
| #36AnimeSniperAug 11, 2009 18:42:25 | I have a few ideas that I am extrapolating into a word doc which then I'll repost here. So far it looks okay to me |
| #37stplong1981Aug 11, 2009 21:51:24 | first off, let me say NO Orion I didn't feel you were being picky for its own sake (although thank you to Atanakar for saying it just to make sure no one does it). Yeah, dex to manual activities is wiser, I'll integrate that Orion, its a good call. And just to clarify, I am not saying a high gee denizen could gain muscle mass faster, rather, they can gain it more densely. To see what I mean you must look at anthropology, and the nature of neanderthal bones, where they are dense and capable of holding onto more muscle, which I suspect would be the result to a high gee world. If that reasoning is true, then they are capable of being far stronger than someone raised and adapted to Earth Normal gravity. @Atanakar: I'd rather not explain too much away wi th exoskeletons or gravity anchors etc etc. I wouldn't doubt that we'd use them, but after trying to make a world habitable for several hundred years, I suspect we'd also stop encumbering ourselves. I was going to use them on newer worlds, but on old ones, I'd be trying to encourage these stats. @AnimeSniper: I look forward to whatever you throw my way. So that all said, this is what we have so far. I don't think we need to add any more pros and cons to it, lets just try and make it cleaner? Also, thanks for the input, I have more questions to come. Gravitational Adaptation Traits Low Gee Adaptation : -2str, +2int, +2dex (for manual actions/feats/skills only, like sleight of hand) : +1d10" to overall character height : -2d6lbs to overall character weight : +2 to listen checks : +2 to reflex save for fear of pain : Slight Build: You are treated as one size category smaller (for example, medium -> small) for purposes of carrying capacity, bull rush, overrun, grappling, and trip attacks. Specifically, this includes x3/4 normal carrying capacity, -4 on grapple checks, -4 on bull rush, -4 on trip, and -4 on overrun checks. High Gee Adaptation : +2str, +2con, -2dex : -1d10" to overall all character height : +1d6lbs to overall character weight (represents denser bones) : - 2 to listen check due to non reliance in dense atmo : Sturdy: Because of the character's muscle mass and bone density, when an attack or action may knock you into the prone position, you can immediately make a saving throw to recover from it. |
| #38atanakarAug 14, 2009 18:52:18 | Finally managed to find enough time to answer properly ! Since you are interested in versimilitude here are two things I learned during my former life as a SF book store owner. One of my best and most entertaining customers was a 72 year old [retired] anthropologist. -1- Bone density : Is affected substantially by cultural practices. For exemple in post WWII North America young girls were often told to stay put, not run and generally adopt a tranquil way of life. While boys are encouraged in just the opposite way. Thus weaker bone density in those generations of women. Clinical test have showned that young girls who enrolled in cheerleading or practice high impact activity on regular basis developped bone density relatively equal to active boys. -2- Brain mass VS muscular mass : The old man professed that there is a direct relation between brain mass and domestication of animals or if you prefer a more varied diet. Apparently, consuption of milk played a large role in the developpement of the human brain. He also said that with greater cognitive faculty the need for large muscular mass decreased. All this happened during a very long period of time of course. So, low G, high G will have an effect on PCs but its only part of the equation. Gravity, diet, cultural practices and environment all influence evolution. |
| #39stplong1981Aug 14, 2009 21:50:04 | Admittedly I'm no retired anthropologist, but I do have a minors degree in it with my bachelor's of history. Was aware of the first, not the second. Gravity over generations should create an adaptation for the very reasons you state in number one. Increased Activity. Higher gravity means more activity and requires more force, causing increased bone density and thus increased musculature. The fittest (in this case those with higher bone densities and more muscle) breed over those unfit to the environment, thus causing offspring to have a higher propensity in the next generation for increased bone density, and so on and so on. As for point two, yes it would illustrate that intellect would result in equipment to overcome gravity's effects, thus resulting in us not adapting to the environment. I'm countering technological use with a rather rough form of colonisation. The idea of "throw some stuff on the wall and see what happens" theory of colonisation. If folks survive with minimal resources (such as western american colonisation) then grand. |