| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1malburDec 30, 2009 13:46:12 | Hey all, I am just curious what to do here. I'm currently running a combination of a zombie and nuclear post apocalypse game in which one of my characters has a defense of about... 21. Normally this isn't a problem but with the zombies, she is completely untouchable unless crit on as they only have an attack bonus of +1. Should I do anything about this or just say that zombies cannot ever threaten her? I'm somewhat baffled as I feel she should be concerned as well. It also seems like a bad idea to raise the BAB of the zombies as another party member has a defense of 14... I basically want to threaten the first character without the second character getting destroyed. Any thoughts? Also, the first character is so high because she rolled amazing for stats (two 18s!) and is a field scientist with Smart Defense. Here, she has armor as well as a +4 from int (smart defense) and +3 from dex in addition to the defense bonus she gets from being a smart hero/field scientist. |
| #2TheRealOrionDec 30, 2009 13:50:55 | Attack her in ways that don't involve Defence: traps, gasses, mental attacks, etc. (i..e, stuff that involves saves instead of attack rolls) Attack her in ways that eliminate a chunk of her Defence bonuses: grapple (e.g., a crowd of zombies surrounding her on all sides) or Sneak Attack (a sneaky zombie). |
| #3AnimeSniperDec 30, 2009 20:11:28 | Or there is the always classic zombie under the bed, either full or partial, that attacks her, or the shambles from behind the door when opended temporarily trapped between the wall corner and door. |
| #4malburDec 30, 2009 22:02:21 | Good suggestions, I'm thinking of making different types of zombies (face it, some humans are stronger than others) which would give them an increased BAB... but yeah, I don't really want to kill her, just make it so she doesn't do stupid stuff and make it a little scarier when a fight breaks out. In my game, zombies pass on the virus and it gets dangerous very quickly, one hit can kill. I'm using the "Human Deathspawn" from the Apocalypse book so I just want the threat rather than a surefire hit/kill... |
| #5Cyber-DaveDec 31, 2009 0:22:41 | A quick warning, unless everyone in the group has very high defense, upping the BAB of the zombies might be bad idea. That will make the zombies far more likely to hit ALL of the group, not just the fast hero. Potentially, you will turn the game into a surefire hit/kill for the other members of the group. Maybe not literally 1 hit/1 kill, but something close. I mean, if you plan your encounters so that it takes about 1-4 hits to kill your fast hero, and the zombies have about a 50/50 chance of hitting your fast hero, then the fast hero will get roughly 2-8 rounds of life while everyone else will get 1-4 rounds of life. If that happens, your players might feel that you are not be making the game hard for the fast hero, but rather punishing the rest of the group for not having the fast heroe's defense. Which doesn't mean you shouldn't create a few zombies with higher BAB in order to challenge the fast hero. Maybe 1-4 rounds for the rest of the group and 2-8 rounds for the fast hero sounds about right. I'm just saying, consider the ultimate effect of your change on the whole group, and consider whether the change you are making is a change you want to effect everyone. If not, and you are really doing this only for the fast hero, then the BAB route might not be the best one. |
| #6TheRealOrionDec 31, 2009 0:28:08 | Here's a thought: make life tougher for the Fast by capitalising on her strengths. Put her in a position where she's the only free-moving character who has to save all the others. Make it a pain in the ass to be the one who doesn't ever get hit, but also provide the possibility of her being the Big Damn Hero as a result. Sometimes, you get to play to the hero's strengths, as a GM. After all, we play the game because we want to be Big Damn Heroes. |
| #7malburDec 31, 2009 0:39:19 | actually, it often plays to her strengths as she's not a fast hero at all! She's a smart hero/Field Scientist with the "smart defense" benefit (add int bonus to defense). So everytime a skill needs to be done, she basically masters. But good idea, perhaps she's the only one who can do something and screwing up means HUGE problems. I like it. Also, zombies aren't the only things they're facing, they'll be facing humans at times but i just want the zombies to still remain scary to her, not just be a situation where she is unconcerned... |
| #8DwarfFighterJan 02, 2010 5:25:00 | A quick warning, unless everyone in the group has very high defense, upping the BAB of the zombies might be bad idea. Agreed. However, check out n0-1_H3r3's suggestion for a Zombie mob in the Left-4-Dead thread. Game-mechanics-wise the mob deals siginificant amount of damage (5d6, often enough to trigger a massive damage check) without needing to make an attack roll. This should be sufficient to make anyone concerned. -DF |
| #9RagitsuJan 02, 2010 23:21:09 | A zippo is pretty threatening to a character. |
| #10DwarfFighterJan 03, 2010 18:00:55 | I don't get it. If you're thinking about lighting the character sheet on fire, wouldn't that be of concern to the player? -DF |
| #11malburJan 03, 2010 19:31:41 | maybe what he's saying is i should have the place they're staying in be set on fire in the middle of the night... ya know, as a joke... |
| #12RagitsuJan 03, 2010 19:57:47 | Fires seem to happen a lot during the beginning of the apocalypse. |
| #13malburJan 04, 2010 1:24:13 | I have looked at the Human Zombie Swarm and am curious if anyone has an idea of how to draw it on a battle mat... how many squares does it cover? I'm looking for a general idea of how many squares rather than pattern (although I generally think of mobs as square like, probably because of the constrains of city streets though forcing them to be square). I'm not sure if it says here, but for those who don't know what I'm talking about, it's from the Left For Dead thread as recommended above: NOTE: It is abridged, not all information has been copied. Human Zombie Swarm: CR 8; Gargantuan undead (mob of Medium-sized undead); HD 30d12 plus 3 (Toughness feat); hp 183; Init –1; Spd 20 ft.; Defense 7, touch 5, flat-footed 7 (–1 Dex, +2 natural, -4 size); BAB +15; Grap +28; Atk melee (5d6, special); FS 20 ft. by 20 ft.; Reach 0 ft.; SQ undead, move or attack action only, Expert Grappler, Mob Anatomy, Trample, ; AL none or creator; SV Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +17; AP 0; Rep +0; Str 13, Dex 8, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1. |
| #14Cyber-DaveJan 04, 2010 3:30:55 | 4 by 4 if I remember correctly. |
| #15DwarfFighterJan 04, 2010 10:40:50 | FS 20 ft. by 20 ft. typically translates to 16 squares of 5 ft. each. So if the mob needs to push through gaps you can either have the individual members compact (stick to the 4x4 formation) or distent (have the mob occupy a number of trailing squares). I don't see any problem with the mob squeezing through a gap 10-15 ft. wide, but in this case you might want to reduce the damage dealt by the mob to represent the fact that it's has less numbers to bring to bear at one time. How much less? That's for the GM to decide. -DF |
| #16rustam1Jan 04, 2010 13:07:24 | I have looked at the Human Zombie Swarm and am curious if anyone has an idea of how to draw it on a battle mat... how many squares does it cover? I'm looking for a general idea of how many squares rather than pattern (although I generally think of mobs as square like, probably because of the constrains of city streets though forcing them to be square). as cyberdave and dwarffighter said. and the description has the info too. ends up being 16 zombies, if you place one in each square. However, if a medium (human) zombie is CR 1/2, how many make a CR 8? |
| #17DwarfFighterJan 05, 2010 16:34:44 | Actually, a mob is represented by a swarm of individuals, approximately 50 of them. The idea is that dealing sufficient damage to the mob disperses it rather than kill it. -DF |
| #18rustam1Jan 05, 2010 19:02:25 | Actually, a mob is represented by a swarm of individuals, approximately 50 of them. The idea is that dealing sufficient damage to the mob disperses it rather than kill it. Where is that found? Seems like way too many medium size creatures. |
| #19malburJan 05, 2010 19:23:32 | he's right, it's from the Critical Locations book (where the orignal mob rules were created). I just saw that myself, it says that once the group takes enough damage, it disperses... So its a good idea but I think it'd be prudent to further adapt the rules so that as damage is taken it gets progressively smaller as the zombies from the mob die. |
| #20RagitsuJan 06, 2010 0:03:42 | The original mob rules for d20 were actually in a 3.5 D&D book, but I suppose Critical Locations is the "official" d20 Modern version. |
| #21doctor_mcpirateJan 07, 2010 3:20:04 | A simpler way to deal with this issue(and better off for low-mid level characters) is to simply remember to dump bonuses to attack rolls on them. The obvious ones are charge and flank (taking it up to +5 to hit, which seems a lot more lethal now) and maybe even a bit of high ground here and there for a +1 bonus to attacks. This is not to say that the swarm is not a good idea because it is a brilliant idea, rather this is a way of challenging the players earlier on and also a reminder that combat modifiers can and should be used. P.S watch out for if you do this because I wouldn't think that character has much to back up that defense and it may end up killing them |