Help with a setting problem - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help with a setting problem

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
iron_stomach
Nov 25, 2008 15:17:47 Ok, I had a basic idea for a campaign in which I used the urban Arcana rules but none of the fluff combined with Future only no space travel. Specifically It is going to be my current D&D world in about three thousand years time playing a decendant of their current character or whatever character survive until I get my problem worked out.

I got this far and thought great but then I encountered a problem: How would having magic affect a civilization's advancement? Most of the magic of D&D can put a medieval setting on par with a modern setting. Does anybody have any suggestions?
#2
tema69
Nov 25, 2008 15:56:39 That really depends on how powerful and common magic is.
#3
iron_stomach
Nov 25, 2008 17:10:02 hmm... well in the context of current (or past I guess) there's only one nation that has a great command of magic. So I guess there would only be a small area that would have prevalent magic.
#4
nclanceman
Dec 02, 2008 22:10:09 Take Eberron, Arcanum, and Shadowrun and blend to taste.

Aside from being insane, it would solve your society advancement problem. From the generic D&D world (around the Dark Ages, right?) to Eberron, which would replace the Reinassance and be the age where the gods become less and less apparent. It would also be the age where magic gets more "scientific", hence the Artificers. Social conventions would also resemble the Renaissance enough to move on to Arcanum. The Industrial Age / Victorian Era in Arcanum would be the time where secularism really comes into play, resulting in even more marginalized religions as well as the advent of true Sciences - which come about when magic and miracles become harder to perform since fewer people believe in the gods. The steampunk trappings of this game are mere incidentals - if this is a modern game, the stuff they built back then is -well- just the way they used to make it back then.

(I'd like to take this opportunity to state that these changes don't have to happen everywhere, Science only has to take hold in one major power for it to spread around the world. Take Rise of Legends as a model for this.)

Shadowrun isn't necessarily a must for the continence of this trend, but would help for Future or Apocalypse games: if a massive plague comes around or some other massive disaster occurs, religion and magic suddenly become more important, and thus, more common. However, the sciences are still around, making the choice between the two up to the individual's personal preference.

Disregarding Shadowrun, the modern age would basically be... Urban Arcana with a much longer history. Artifacts from the older ages would still be around, but the modern world would at least superficially resemble ours.
#5
iron_stomach
Dec 05, 2008 20:46:58 I have heard of shadowrun but haven't thought to look it up, and that Arcanum link you posted was very helpful. I think I've got most of the kinks worked out but do you have any suggestions for a disease or disaster that would cause the resurgence of faith? I was thinking maybe an invasion by a hostile alien race or maybe the aftermath of said invasion.
#6
nclanceman
Dec 05, 2008 23:27:51 Probably any disaster would work to some degree. If the disaster is massive enough, or they happen frequently enough, it would probably do the trick.

Well, massive probably isn't the right word, far-reaching is better. The disaster would have to personally affect a large number of people for it to have any real staying power. As for the disaster itself, I'm in favor of a series of natural disasters or a great plague. Both would just be cruel though. You could take a page from d20 Apocalypse (near the back of the book) and have an alien invasion that drops a number of plagues...
#7
iron_stomach
Dec 06, 2008 10:13:12 hmm... don't have apocalypse but I can probably get it. Maybe I can link it to a prophecy that I can present in the current game or something similar.
#8
Luis_Carlos
Dec 08, 2008 16:26:38 In D&D worlds the spellcaster are minority. Only a few and rich people can use magic item. Technology is easiest.

But magic+technology.... imagine a bomb wich is teletransported to the desk of president of country, or a invissible missil, or a biological weapon to create a plague or ghouls...

I suposse deities and superheroes avoid magic change the History.
#9
new_fashion_guy
Dec 11, 2008 9:13:22 Luis makes a good point. There are infinite things you could do simply by adding the capability to teleport with modern world technology. My suggestion would be to write up a history of your world without magic, and then stick in some events that are related to magic and think about how each event would change what happened from then on. Maybe make a tree of timelines and see how each event branches out, then pick the end result you like the most and use that timestream as your history.
#10
lyonv
Dec 13, 2008 21:59:16 Something else to consider would be the social, political and economic reactions to and regulations of magic throughout history. For example, magical research is complicated and difficult; not just anyone can do it. Magic guilds would have vested economic interests in controlling all of their magical research information. Spells and the knowledge needed for creating new ones would be hard to come by and would evolve into a long history of magical espionage.

Likewise, governments would have deeply vested interests in controlling the spread and use of magic. Laws and regulations regarding its use would abound. "Military grade" magic would likely be restricted to government use only, making knowledge of how to cast a lightning bolt or a fireball very hard to come by and probably illegal for most citizens to possess. Magical "arms dealers" might abound, smuggling illegal magic items between rival factions or nations. Government paranoia about the possibility of revolt would likely produce untold regulations and restrictions on the use and availability of arcane knowledge. These restrictions would naturally play into the hands of powerful business interests who cut deals with government officials to "license" the use of certain arcane secrets.

Religions, also, would weigh in on the appropriate uses of magic. In a world in which the gods are real and divine magic is real as well, a competition of sorts might ensue in which deep-seated rivalries between "arcane" users and "divine" users would cause centuries of conflicts and create deep social and cultural divisions among peoples.

These are just some basic ideas of the social, political and economic implications of a modern world influenced by the presence of magic. A bit of reflection down these lines can open the floodgates of possibilities -- and consume days, weeks and years of campaign-world development time. My suggestion to avoid getting bogged down in too much simulation is to decide on the general focus of your campaign; its mood, tone and style, as well as its primary antagonists, and focus your development there. Get the basic premise down, but don't fret the details. Fill those in as your campaign evolves. I have found that some of the most interesting implications of the modern/fantasy blending comes from my players in the middle of a game. I often just quietly slip their suggestions into the game and keep on going, as though it had been part of the background of the campaign setting all along. It makes my job as GM easier and allows the players to feel that their characters are truly discovering things about the world in which they live.
#11
iron_stomach
Dec 15, 2008 17:41:45 Thanks all. your right I probably shouldn't sweat the details as much. I probably will at least try the time line idea.

The only thing I really thought up so far, beyond the history I already have, is that genetics has advanced very far so that humans can catch up with the other race so there would be a a lot of franks and moreaus running around.

Should the tensions be very high between arcane and divine magic? What about races? should the old prejudices die or live on?

Maybe have mages register with the government, both divine and arcane?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 iron_stomach Nov 25, 2008 15:17:47	Ok, I had a basic idea for a campaign in which I used the urban Arcana rules but none of the fluff combined with Future only no space travel. Specifically It is going to be my current D&D world in about three thousand years time playing a decendant of their current character or whatever character survive until I get my problem worked out. I got this far and thought great but then I encountered a problem: How would having magic affect a civilization's advancement? Most of the magic of D&D can put a medieval setting on par with a modern setting. Does anybody have any suggestions?
#2 tema69 Nov 25, 2008 15:56:39	That really depends on how powerful and common magic is.
#3 iron_stomach Nov 25, 2008 17:10:02	hmm... well in the context of current (or past I guess) there's only one nation that has a great command of magic. So I guess there would only be a small area that would have prevalent magic.
#4 nclanceman Dec 02, 2008 22:10:09	Take Eberron, Arcanum, and Shadowrun and blend to taste. Aside from being insane, it would solve your society advancement problem. From the generic D&D world (around the Dark Ages, right?) to Eberron, which would replace the Reinassance and be the age where the gods become less and less apparent. It would also be the age where magic gets more "scientific", hence the Artificers. Social conventions would also resemble the Renaissance enough to move on to Arcanum. The Industrial Age / Victorian Era in Arcanum would be the time where secularism really comes into play, resulting in even more marginalized religions as well as the advent of true Sciences - which come about when magic and miracles become harder to perform since fewer people believe in the gods. The steampunk trappings of this game are mere incidentals - if this is a modern game, the stuff they built back then is -well- just the way they used to make it back then. (I'd like to take this opportunity to state that these changes don't have to happen everywhere, Science only has to take hold in one major power for it to spread around the world. Take Rise of Legends as a model for this.) Shadowrun isn't necessarily a must for the continence of this trend, but would help for Future or Apocalypse games: if a massive plague comes around or some other massive disaster occurs, religion and magic suddenly become more important, and thus, more common. However, the sciences are still around, making the choice between the two up to the individual's personal preference. Disregarding Shadowrun, the modern age would basically be... Urban Arcana with a much longer history. Artifacts from the older ages would still be around, but the modern world would at least superficially resemble ours.
#5 iron_stomach Dec 05, 2008 20:46:58	I have heard of shadowrun but haven't thought to look it up, and that Arcanum link you posted was very helpful. I think I've got most of the kinks worked out but do you have any suggestions for a disease or disaster that would cause the resurgence of faith? I was thinking maybe an invasion by a hostile alien race or maybe the aftermath of said invasion.
#6 nclanceman Dec 05, 2008 23:27:51	Probably any disaster would work to some degree. If the disaster is massive enough, or they happen frequently enough, it would probably do the trick. Well, massive probably isn't the right word, far-reaching is better. The disaster would have to personally affect a large number of people for it to have any real staying power. As for the disaster itself, I'm in favor of a series of natural disasters or a great plague. Both would just be cruel though. You could take a page from d20 Apocalypse (near the back of the book) and have an alien invasion that drops a number of plagues...
#7 iron_stomach Dec 06, 2008 10:13:12	hmm... don't have apocalypse but I can probably get it. Maybe I can link it to a prophecy that I can present in the current game or something similar.
#8 Luis_Carlos Dec 08, 2008 16:26:38	In D&D worlds the spellcaster are minority. Only a few and rich people can use magic item. Technology is easiest. But magic+technology.... imagine a bomb wich is teletransported to the desk of president of country, or a invissible missil, or a biological weapon to create a plague or ghouls... I suposse deities and superheroes avoid magic change the History.
#9 new_fashion_guy Dec 11, 2008 9:13:22	Luis makes a good point. There are infinite things you could do simply by adding the capability to teleport with modern world technology. My suggestion would be to write up a history of your world without magic, and then stick in some events that are related to magic and think about how each event would change what happened from then on. Maybe make a tree of timelines and see how each event branches out, then pick the end result you like the most and use that timestream as your history.
#10 lyonv Dec 13, 2008 21:59:16	Something else to consider would be the social, political and economic reactions to and regulations of magic throughout history. For example, magical research is complicated and difficult; not just anyone can do it. Magic guilds would have vested economic interests in controlling all of their magical research information. Spells and the knowledge needed for creating new ones would be hard to come by and would evolve into a long history of magical espionage. Likewise, governments would have deeply vested interests in controlling the spread and use of magic. Laws and regulations regarding its use would abound. "Military grade" magic would likely be restricted to government use only, making knowledge of how to cast a lightning bolt or a fireball very hard to come by and probably illegal for most citizens to possess. Magical "arms dealers" might abound, smuggling illegal magic items between rival factions or nations. Government paranoia about the possibility of revolt would likely produce untold regulations and restrictions on the use and availability of arcane knowledge. These restrictions would naturally play into the hands of powerful business interests who cut deals with government officials to "license" the use of certain arcane secrets. Religions, also, would weigh in on the appropriate uses of magic. In a world in which the gods are real and divine magic is real as well, a competition of sorts might ensue in which deep-seated rivalries between "arcane" users and "divine" users would cause centuries of conflicts and create deep social and cultural divisions among peoples. These are just some basic ideas of the social, political and economic implications of a modern world influenced by the presence of magic. A bit of reflection down these lines can open the floodgates of possibilities -- and consume days, weeks and years of campaign-world development time. My suggestion to avoid getting bogged down in too much simulation is to decide on the general focus of your campaign; its mood, tone and style, as well as its primary antagonists, and focus your development there. Get the basic premise down, but don't fret the details. Fill those in as your campaign evolves. I have found that some of the most interesting implications of the modern/fantasy blending comes from my players in the middle of a game. I often just quietly slip their suggestions into the game and keep on going, as though it had been part of the background of the campaign setting all along. It makes my job as GM easier and allows the players to feel that their characters are truly discovering things about the world in which they live.
#11 iron_stomach Dec 15, 2008 17:41:45	Thanks all. your right I probably shouldn't sweat the details as much. I probably will at least try the time line idea. The only thing I really thought up so far, beyond the history I already have, is that genetics has advanced very far so that humans can catch up with the other race so there would be a a lot of franks and moreaus running around. Should the tensions be very high between arcane and divine magic? What about races? should the old prejudices die or live on? Maybe have mages register with the government, both divine and arcane?