An arguement for this was that even if it did make it less accurate, he was so close that he would pretty much hit no matter what. I looked up the rules for shooting at close range, and it only applies to adjacent foes. So does this mean he could take an extremely powerful sniper rifle, hip-wield it, and deal massive damage to foes more than 5 feet away?
d20 Modern loves giving -4 penalties for stuff like this, I think it'd apply here too.
No.
The simple reason being that this is a game full of AGB: Artificial Game Balance.
Sure therr are things in game that are plainly astonishingly unrealistsic, such as waiting 6 seconds between pulling the trigger on a 45 semiauto. But that is done that way to make it a game that takes less time to calculate what happens than trying to play LEG PhoenixCommand Advanced.
Huge weapons cannot be fired without support.
If you want to make exeption, do so at your own risk. But do not let the players railroad you into then compounding the Huge with their desire to bypass the rules with "I cant miss at this range". Of course you can miss, unless the target is immobile.... because its not like you can swing that Huge arround at the dancing target as quick as you can swing an AK47.
Be sure to mention the enemy will now also be using "I cant miss at this range" when shooting at the PCs with their NPC Barrets (DoubleTap).
Also be sure to mention the Barret is a recoil operated gun, not a true Gas Op so it can shortcycle if not properly supported thru recoil stroke.
Size: Size categories for weapons and other objects are defined differently from the size categories for creatures. The relationship between a weapon’s size and that of its wielder defines whether it can be used one-handed, if it requires two hands, and if it’s a light weapon.
A Medium-size or smaller weapon can be used one-handed or two-handed. A Large weapon requires two hands. A Huge weapon requires two hands and a bipod or other mount
Perhaps shooting a weapon too large for ya could be a -4 ToHit,
just as shooting a weapon From The Hip could be -4 ToHit.
We are already up to -8 on the attack, I'm sure you could find some other penalties to go along with a 25% Jam chance for a shortcycled barret.... maybe explain how there is no Dex Bonus for using a weapon held incorrectly and without using the sights. If they dont like that, you can always play RAW Rules As Written: A Huge weapon requires two hands and a bipod or other mount.
It may seem lke I am coming down hard on you or being stern.
I am just demonstrating how you the GM should be stern with players that want to adjust the rules to their benefit.
The barret can physically be held and "discharged" at least once from the hip.
But doing so fits in game just as well as the very very simple task of straight-arming a m16 1handed semiauto at a target 20 or 30 feet away.... VERBOTEN.
Sure it is a handful or portocannon,
but its not like the600nitro pistol
Sure it is a handful or portocannon,
but its not like the600nitro pistol
I demand that you stat that thing :P
I think these count as "on hit, save-or-die." But seeing this video kind of gives you an idea of what a 'podless shot with a light-fifty would be like.
And here is a couple shots from the hip.
Example:
Big heroic Strong Hero (Strength 18) with a Barrett .50.
-35 lb. + (4 x 1,5) = -29
Result = you're probably not hitting the target... But you did try, and you probably looked bad-a*s while doing it.
OTOH, the same guy, firing an M16 one handed:
-8 lb. + (4 x 1,5) = -2
Result = very much doable, and cinematic.
Also, remember the -1 for not using any sights (from Weapon Locker/Ultramodern Firearms)? Assuming that is the penalty taken for firing from the hip, I'd have to ask the gunnuts: would a -1 penalty to hit (from hipfiring) result in an overall reduced penalty to hit (weight being easier to handle when hipfiring)? Or would it equal out in inaccuracy / weight control?
Since he is using no sights, he takes an automatic -1 penalty.
Since he is hipfiring, he takes a -1 penalty for every 10 feet away the target is (taking into account recoil, steadiness, and such).
Sound good?
is what you are suggetsing for a Medium(with 1 hand) from the hip, a Large( in 2 hands) from the hip, or a Huge(with 2 hands AND POD REQUIRED) from the hip?
. . .
How many folks would say the guy shooting the barret in either vid should be allowed to take his full Dex Bonus to armorclass, from the way he's ducking and weaving and generally bouncing around all mimbly-bimbly . He looked to me like he would get a penalty to his ac from how immobilizing that gun is to his Duck&Dodge.
Also note the good long time they took to point the gun at a stationary target, I dint see them swinging it around to engage targets in all directions in a Facing-less d20 enviroment.
It seems to me the basic principle involved in this case is the players desire to forgoe the rules that say you cant run around with guns that do 2d12, because they want to run around with a 2d12 gun. Just show the guys the 2d12 Pistol and they will forget all about trying to break the rules for the Barret.
"Sure it is a handful or portocannon,
but its not like the 600nitro pistol"
I demand that you stat that thing :P
TC 600NE Contender (pl5)
Weight 4
Ammo 1
Ammo 600NE Reduced, PDC15 per 20, only sold in Scores and +3PDC rarity
- 600NE Pistol
Personal Firearm
Size Large, +2 Concealment checks
RI 50
Damage 2d11 (or 2d10+1)
Special: Shooter check TacticsDC25 or StrDC25 else 1d4 damage, or weapon is thrown back 3d4 sq and RefDC20 for shooter to avoid 1d4 damage
. - TC600NE Slammer
Martial Ranged Weapon
Slammer is aligned away from the target and activated, sending the Slammer hurtling at the target.
Size Medium
Ranged Touch Attack
RI 5, 30'max
Target StrDC20 or knocked prone
. - TC600NE PowerPoker
Exotic Melee Thrust Weapon
Size Medium
Damage 1d4 +2d6
Grasped by the barrel with a finger up against the trigger, the weapon is thrust underhand at targets grips first. On a successful hit the resulting resistance forces the hand against the trigger to discharge the PowerPoker and enter the bonus stage where scores can really change- when unloaded the PowerPoker does 1d4 Bashing but jumps up to 1d4+2d6Bashing firing the ammo.
. - TC600NE Silencer Gadget
Size Medium (gallon paintcan)
Weight 3lb (gallon paintcan)
PDC 11 (Res+2 or Illegal+4)
While the manufacturers are proud to say they are making the TC600NE silencers from recycled objects, they are very tight lipped about just what objects they are reusing.
TC 600NE Contender (pl5)
Size Large, +2 Concealment checks
Weight 4
Ammo 1
Ammo 600NE Reduced, PDC15 per 20, only sold in Scores and +3PDC rarity
- 600NE Pistol
RI 50
Damage 2d11 (or 2d10+1)
Special: Shooter check TacticsDC25 or StrDC25 else 1d4 damage, or weapon is thrown back 3d4 sq and RefDC20 for shooter to avoid 1d4 damage
.- TC600NE Slammer
Martial Ranged Weapon
PowerClub is aligned away from the target and activated, sending the powerclub hurtling at the target.
Ranged Touch Attack
RI 5, 30'max
Target StrDC20 or knocked prone
.- TC600NE PowerPoker
Exotic Melee Thrust Weapon
Damage 1d4 +2d6
Grasped by the barrel with a finger up against the trigger, the weapon is thrust underhand at targets grips first. On a successful hit the resulting resistance forces the hand against the trigger to discharge the PowerPoker and enter the bonus stage where scores can really change- when unloaded the PowerPoker does 1d4 Bashing but jumps up to 1d4+2d6Bashing firing the ammo.
.- TC600NE Silencer Gadget
Size Medium (gallon paintcan)
Weight 3lb (gallon paintcan)
PDC 11 (Res+2 or Illegal+4)
While the manufacturers are proud to say they are making the TC600NE silencers from recycled objects, they are very tight lipped about just what objects they are reusing.
show off :P
show off :P
lol.
Looks good all the same, and I like what you chose for the silencer on that thing. XD
Reaper-
is what you are suggetsing for a Medium(with 1 hand) from the hip, a Large( in 2 hands) from the hip, or a Huge(with 2 hands AND POD REQUIRED) from the hip?
. . .
How many folks would say the guy shooting the barret in either vid should be allowed to take his full Dex Bonus to armorclass, from the way he's ducking and weaving and generally bouncing around all mimbly-bimbly . He looked to me like he would get a penalty to his ac from how immobilizing that gun is to his Duck&Dodge.
Also note the good long time they took to point the gun at a stationary target, I dint see them swinging it around to engage targets in all directions in a Facing-less d20 enviroment.
It seems to me the basic principle involved in this case is the players desire to forgoe the rules that say you cant run around with guns that do 2d12, because they want to run around with a 2d12 gun. Just show the guys the 2d12 Pistol and they will forget all about trying to break the rules for the Barret.
It's for firing the Huge sniper rifle.
Since he is hipfiring, he takes a -1 penalty for every 10 feet away the target is (taking into account recoil, steadiness, and such).
<..>
It's for firing the Huge sniper rifle.
If you give the Huge weapon just -1 for hip firing,
that dont leave much room for the penalties for shooting a Large 460weatherby from the hip, or the 50bmg Thunder Pistol from the hip.
Perhaps the players would like to use a Huge 20mm ATRifle or Huge 30mm Chaingun from the hip for just -1.
This may sound silly,
but Huge is frickin HUGE!
Why is a Pistol given a size Large? To require it to be used two handed even though it is neither heavy nor volumous enough to otherwise be Large. Why is a gun barely bigger than a BAR given the Huge size? So it cannot be used by a guy running around.
AGB.
anyhoo
its your game, play with the rules you have the most fun with
thats the nice thing about this board & houserules, they are all just advice but in the end it comes down to what you have fun with
Actually, here is an actual video of someone shoulder-firing a Barret .50 cal.
And here is a couple shots from the hip.
Note on the first video, the guy has hoised it totally upright, and then lowers it down, holding it steady. When you have something that long it is quite front heavy. Someone planning on shooting from the shoulder or hip with a huge class gun need to take a round or two just to get situated right...a round where you aren't getting any sort of benifit from cover or dex, just standing in the middle of the fight messing around. i.e. EASY target.
Second, no such thing as 'can't miss'
Think of swordfighting. How can you manage to miss anyone? Well, because the opponent isn't standing there like a maniquin, the opponent is attemting to thwart the attacker, and that is the one part people never invision in these scenarios.
bullet dance
You'd think it would be impossible to miss at a range of 3 feet, yet the shooter only hit his opponent 2 times out of 6, and both of those were very minor wounds.
First, that is what the opponent will be doing, and that is what the attacker will be UNABLE to do.
So give him
#1 miss a round of action while he gets himself and his weapon situated
#2 various -4 penalties, should be about cumulative -12
#3 big bonuses to being hit, the equivalent of suprised, flat footed, whatever.
Note on the first video, the guy has hoised it totally upright, and then lowers it down, holding it steady. When you have something that long it is quite front heavy. Someone planning on shooting from the shoulder or hip with a huge class gun need to take a round or two just to get situated right...a round where you aren't getting any sort of benifit from cover or dex, just standing in the middle of the fight messing around. i.e. EASY target.
Second, no such thing as 'can't miss'
Think of swordfighting. How can you manage to miss anyone? Well, because the opponent isn't standing there like a maniquin, the opponent is attemting to thwart the attacker, and that is the one part people never invision in these scenarios.
bullet dance
You'd think it would be impossible to miss at a range of 3 feet, yet the shooter only hit his opponent 2 times out of 6, and both of those were very minor wounds.
First, that is what the opponent will be doing, and that is what the attacker will be UNABLE to do.
So give him
#1 miss a round of action while he gets himself and his weapon situated
#2 various -4 penalties, should be about cumulative -12
#3 big bonuses to being hit, the equivalent of suprised, flat footed, whatever.
Excellent video of the bullet dance. and you're right, heck the opponent could be so close the rifle barrel is over his shoulder... with long rifles it would be possible for opponents to be too close in that regards too i imagine.
My Question is would a Spartan or Elite from Halo be capable of hip-firing or shoulder standing firing of the Sniper Rifle that has been statted on DanDwiki board... I'm asking in case this comes up with a possible Halo game I may be running or joining in on...
That's called being Large or Powerful Build. Look it up.
If it's a Spartan or Elite, there probably won't be the need for a houserule on penalties when wielding Huge weapons.
Remember: Spartans are not only engineered super-soldiers, they're also equipped with armor that would kill a normal person if they tried to wear it (remember the early Spartan/Mjolnir Armor tests?).
Spartans clock in at around 7 feet tall, so considering them "Large" creatures wouldn't be too far of a stretch. They're already pushing the boundaries of a normal human.
As for Elites, you probably wouldn't find them using human weapons unless they scavenged them or been outcast or whatnot, kind of like The Arbiter. Elites seem more of a candidate for the "Powerful Build" trait than a Spartan.
Either way you go, things will probably be easy.
Note on the first video, the guy has hoised it totally upright, and then lowers it down, holding it steady. When you have something that long it is quite front heavy. Someone planning on shooting from the shoulder or hip with a huge class gun need to take a round or two just to get situated right...a round where you aren't getting any sort of benifit from cover or dex, just standing in the middle of the fight messing around. i.e. EASY target.
Second, no such thing as 'can't miss'
Think of swordfighting. How can you manage to miss anyone? Well, because the opponent isn't standing there like a maniquin, the opponent is attemting to thwart the attacker, and that is the one part people never invision in these scenarios.
bullet dance
You'd think it would be impossible to miss at a range of 3 feet, yet the shooter only hit his opponent 2 times out of 6, and both of those were very minor wounds.
First, that is what the opponent will be doing, and that is what the attacker will be UNABLE to do.
So give him
#1 miss a round of action while he gets himself and his weapon situated
#2 various -4 penalties, should be about cumulative -12
#3 big bonuses to being hit, the equivalent of suprised, flat footed, whatever.
Oh, that works. I like that.
If it's a Spartan or Elite, there probably won't be the need for a houserule on penalties when wielding Huge weapons.
Remember: Spartans are not only engineered super-soldiers, they're also equipped with armor that would kill a normal person if they tried to wear it (remember the early Spartan/Mjolnir Armor tests?).
Spartans clock in at around 7 feet tall, so considering them "Large" creatures wouldn't be too far of a stretch. They're already pushing the boundaries of a normal human.
As for Elites, you probably wouldn't find them using human weapons unless they scavenged them or been outcast or whatnot, kind of like The Arbiter. Elites seem more of a candidate for the "Powerful Build" trait than a Spartan.
Either way you go, things will probably be easy.
I'm re-working the Spartan template from the DanDwiki page http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Spartan-II_%28D20_Modern_Template%29 adding a little crunch like Height and weight after the augmetations and then the Spartan Mk III Template... HALO and REsident Evil are two side projects that I have been working on as supplements for D20...