How does this game run with ZERO magical healing? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

How does this game run with ZERO magical healing?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
slayer_5
May 04, 2010 18:10:11 I am running an urban arcana/shadow chasers game, with pretty generous armour as DR rules, and very very little magical healing.

By very little, I mean like, 2~3 CLW potions (or the equivalent) might be given out per adventure. Still, the PC's are having troubles clearing more than two or three rooms without needing healing.

To be fair, they are playing pretty bad (level 6, no one has even double tap).

How do you guys that run high-combat, ZERO magic games make it work???
#2
TheRealOrion
May 04, 2010 19:19:30 First, why do you have no healing? An Urban Arcana game should give you access to the F/X classes, and if your players are Level 6, then they can take advanced classes, so I'm confused.

Second, a few ideas on how to solve the problem:

1) (a la Backstabbist) "Try Getting Shot Less"
It seems like a dickish thing to say, but it makes sense. Avoid taking damage. Don't run head-long into monsters. Take cover. Etc. Basically, forget what you know about slugging it out in D&D. That doesn't work in Modern. Have a direct discussion with your players and just tell them this. If they don't got for it--they want to slug it out like D&D--then try one the other options, below.

2) Switch your monsters to non-lethal damage. It's a conceit, for sure, but if you think about it, most of the damage that TV characters take is implicitly non-lethal. It must be because they just get up and walk away most of the time. Have your monsters to do non-lethal while your players do lethal. Save monsters-doing-lethal for big scenes of narrative importance. Non-lethal damage makes players "fall" and leaves them extremely vulnerable, so there's still real risk, but they can shake it off pretty quickly and come back for multiple fights in the same game, so it mimics how lethal damage actually works in D&D (i.e., it might as well be non-lethal because healing potions are cheap like dirt).

3) Get a party healer, someone who's job is to cast those spells. The players should have learned by now just how important that job is, so someone should be quite willing to step up and in do it in exchange for the ever-lasting gratitude and free beer of his/her teammates.

Just my two (three?) cents.
#3
backstabbist
May 05, 2010 1:00:51 Credit where due:
Razoreface is the owner of the term "Try getting shot less"

Remember that James Bond movie, I cant recall the name,
but it was the one where James Bond was captured by the badguys....

Intel
Do the PCs bother to get any?
Are there any non-grunt types (the despised 'not combat focused' type characters) to RESEARCH the situation for mundane and logistical intel for Assaults and multiple EGRESS and support options,
or is a bunch of dumb grunts running into the unknown rather than FedEx'ing a box of transmitters to find out the enemy reaction to the doorbell

I guess I'm wondering if they are still using iron age tactics in an information age contest.
Note the term Contest rather than Fight.
A decent noncombat character can secure the win before the fight (turkey shoot) even starts.

A smart fighter will set the building on fire and shoot them as they run out,
a wise fighter would first chain the doors shut as to prevent anyone running out that would need shooting.

There is more than one way to interpret River Tam's line
I can kill you with my mind
#4
narukagami
May 05, 2010 6:59:28 Also remember the First Aid skill heals HP in Modern. If you really wanted to you could easily houserule it to either heal more HP or scale the amount it heals depending on the check.
#5
bone_naga
May 05, 2010 17:18:50
I am running an urban arcana/shadow chasers game, with pretty generous armour as DR rules, and very very little magical healing.

By very little, I mean like, 2~3 CLW potions (or the equivalent) might be given out per adventure. Still, the PC's are having troubles clearing more than two or three rooms without needing healing.

To be fair, they are playing pretty bad (level 6, no one has even double tap).

How do you guys that run high-combat, ZERO magic games make it work???

Well just reducing the emphasis on combat goes a long way. In a simulationist game, one firefight (if it doesn't kill them) can have the PCs recovering for weeks, so they will probably try to pick and choose their battles (and as DM try not to railroad them into too many of them). Medical facilities also help.

However, I'm currently playing a 4e-based modern game so healing surges take care of that, although combat is still a lot more dangerous and less prevalent than in a typical 4e game.
#6
DwarfFighter
May 06, 2010 16:35:10
Surgery (DC 20): With a surgery kit, a character can conduct field surgery. This application of the Treat Injury skill carries a –4 penalty, which can be negated with the Surgery feat. Surgery requires 1d4 hours; if the patient is at negative hit points, add an additional hour for every point below 0 the patient has fallen.

Surgery restores 1d6 hit points for every character level of the patient (up to the patient's full normal total of hit points) with a successful skill check. Surgery can only be used successfully on a character once in a 24-hour period.

A character who undergoes surgery is fatigued for 24 hours, minus 2 hours for every point above the DC the surgeon achieves. The period of fatigue can never be reduced below 6 hours in this fashion.

Fatigued: Characters who are fatigued can’t run or charge and take a penalty of –2 to Strength and Dexterity. After 8 hours of complete, uninterrupted rest, a fatigued character is no longer fatigued.

Simply put: A competent surgeon can get heavily damaged characters back in the game within a few hours.

-DF
#7
lxmsheepy
May 07, 2010 19:12:36

Well just reducing the emphasis on combat goes a long way. In a simulationist game, one firefight (if it doesn't kill them) can have the PCs recovering for weeks, so they will probably try to pick and choose their battles (and as DM try not to railroad them into too many of them). Medical facilities also help.

However, I'm currently playing a 4e-based modern game so healing surges take care of that, although combat is still a lot more dangerous and less prevalent than in a typical 4e game.

Are your 4e Modern rules from your group or did you get them online? I've been interested in playing 4eM, but I haven't had the desire to do the conversion myself, lol.

And when we played Modern, we usually went with the "Try getting shot less" method.
#8
Cyber-Dave
May 08, 2010 10:34:39 Amethyst Foundations just got released. You should be able to use those rules, with a bit of house ruling, to play a 4e Modern game.
#9
SerenaDawn
May 08, 2010 12:13:30

Well just reducing the emphasis on combat goes a long way. In a simulationist game, one firefight (if it doesn't kill them) can have the PCs recovering for weeks, so they will probably try to pick and choose their battles (and as DM try not to railroad them into too many of them). Medical facilities also help.

However, I'm currently playing a 4e-based modern game so healing surges take care of that, although combat is still a lot more dangerous and less prevalent than in a typical 4e game.

Are your 4e Modern rules from your group or did you get them online? I've been interested in playing 4eM, but I haven't had the desire to do the conversion myself, lol.

And when we played Modern, we usually went with the "Try getting shot less" method.

Bone is reffering to the playtest of the NeuroSpasta 4E rules being produced by us. Amethyst, as Cyber-Dave mentioned, is related to it. They have the same combat system and most of the gear. NeuroSpasta just has a much more complicated character creation system. Amethyst is also available now and Neurospasta won't be for a while...
#10
slayer_5
May 10, 2010 11:39:52 Well, problem is, the smartest character is using his smarts to build badass weapons, and not for intel.

The other non-com, doesn't really care too much out of game about stuff, so they aren't as useful as they could be.

But yeah, I do think they could have done much, much better, with a bit of forethought...

It seems though, that the general answer is "less combat, hide more". Got it. :P
#11
TheRealOrion
May 16, 2010 10:23:17 If your players aren't interested in making an effort, if they want to do the minimum and slide through the game, then there isn't much you can do. You can't make them take it more seriously. You can't make them care. If their idea of fun is wandering through the game beating the bad guys and soaking up acolades, then I'd recommend that you either design a game around their minimum-effort style, or simply retire from GMing. You can't change your players, and you'll only drive yourself nuts trying. You might be able to show them a different, more fun way to play, but you have to do that openly and honestly. Changing the game around them in order to make them change their play style is passive-aggressive manipulation. Talking to them directly about their gaming preferences is direct an honest.

Just my two cents...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 slayer_5 May 04, 2010 18:10:11	I am running an urban arcana/shadow chasers game, with pretty generous armour as DR rules, and very very little magical healing. By very little, I mean like, 2~3 CLW potions (or the equivalent) might be given out per adventure. Still, the PC's are having troubles clearing more than two or three rooms without needing healing. To be fair, they are playing pretty bad (level 6, no one has even double tap). How do you guys that run high-combat, ZERO magic games make it work???
#2 TheRealOrion May 04, 2010 19:19:30	First, why do you have no healing? An Urban Arcana game should give you access to the F/X classes, and if your players are Level 6, then they can take advanced classes, so I'm confused. Second, a few ideas on how to solve the problem: 1) (a la Backstabbist) "Try Getting Shot Less" It seems like a dickish thing to say, but it makes sense. Avoid taking damage. Don't run head-long into monsters. Take cover. Etc. Basically, forget what you know about slugging it out in D&D. That doesn't work in Modern. Have a direct discussion with your players and just tell them this. If they don't got for it--they want to slug it out like D&D--then try one the other options, below. 2) Switch your monsters to non-lethal damage. It's a conceit, for sure, but if you think about it, most of the damage that TV characters take is implicitly non-lethal. It must be because they just get up and walk away most of the time. Have your monsters to do non-lethal while your players do lethal. Save monsters-doing-lethal for big scenes of narrative importance. Non-lethal damage makes players "fall" and leaves them extremely vulnerable, so there's still real risk, but they can shake it off pretty quickly and come back for multiple fights in the same game, so it mimics how lethal damage actually works in D&D (i.e., it might as well be non-lethal because healing potions are cheap like dirt). 3) Get a party healer, someone who's job is to cast those spells. The players should have learned by now just how important that job is, so someone should be quite willing to step up and in do it in exchange for the ever-lasting gratitude and free beer of his/her teammates. Just my two (three?) cents.
#3 backstabbist May 05, 2010 1:00:51	Credit where due: Razoreface is the owner of the term "Try getting shot less" Remember that James Bond movie, I cant recall the name, but it was the one where James Bond was captured by the badguys.... Intel Do the PCs bother to get any? Are there any non-grunt types (the despised 'not combat focused' type characters) to RESEARCH the situation for mundane and logistical intel for Assaults and multiple EGRESS and support options, or is a bunch of dumb grunts running into the unknown rather than FedEx'ing a box of transmitters to find out the enemy reaction to the doorbell I guess I'm wondering if they are still using iron age tactics in an information age contest. Note the term Contest rather than Fight. A decent noncombat character can secure the win before the fight (turkey shoot) even starts. A smart fighter will set the building on fire and shoot them as they run out, a wise fighter would first chain the doors shut as to prevent anyone running out that would need shooting. There is more than one way to interpret River Tam's line I can kill you with my mind
#4 narukagami May 05, 2010 6:59:28	Also remember the First Aid skill heals HP in Modern. If you really wanted to you could easily houserule it to either heal more HP or scale the amount it heals depending on the check.
#5 bone_naga May 05, 2010 17:18:50	I am running an urban arcana/shadow chasers game, with pretty generous armour as DR rules, and very very little magical healing. By very little, I mean like, 2~3 CLW potions (or the equivalent) might be given out per adventure. Still, the PC's are having troubles clearing more than two or three rooms without needing healing. To be fair, they are playing pretty bad (level 6, no one has even double tap). How do you guys that run high-combat, ZERO magic games make it work??? Well just reducing the emphasis on combat goes a long way. In a simulationist game, one firefight (if it doesn't kill them) can have the PCs recovering for weeks, so they will probably try to pick and choose their battles (and as DM try not to railroad them into too many of them). Medical facilities also help. However, I'm currently playing a 4e-based modern game so healing surges take care of that, although combat is still a lot more dangerous and less prevalent than in a typical 4e game.
#6 DwarfFighter May 06, 2010 16:35:10	Surgery (DC 20): With a surgery kit, a character can conduct field surgery. This application of the Treat Injury skill carries a –4 penalty, which can be negated with the Surgery feat. Surgery requires 1d4 hours; if the patient is at negative hit points, add an additional hour for every point below 0 the patient has fallen. Surgery restores 1d6 hit points for every character level of the patient (up to the patient's full normal total of hit points) with a successful skill check. Surgery can only be used successfully on a character once in a 24-hour period. A character who undergoes surgery is fatigued for 24 hours, minus 2 hours for every point above the DC the surgeon achieves. The period of fatigue can never be reduced below 6 hours in this fashion. Fatigued: Characters who are fatigued can’t run or charge and take a penalty of –2 to Strength and Dexterity. After 8 hours of complete, uninterrupted rest, a fatigued character is no longer fatigued. Simply put: A competent surgeon can get heavily damaged characters back in the game within a few hours. -DF
#7 lxmsheepy May 07, 2010 19:12:36	Well just reducing the emphasis on combat goes a long way. In a simulationist game, one firefight (if it doesn't kill them) can have the PCs recovering for weeks, so they will probably try to pick and choose their battles (and as DM try not to railroad them into too many of them). Medical facilities also help. However, I'm currently playing a 4e-based modern game so healing surges take care of that, although combat is still a lot more dangerous and less prevalent than in a typical 4e game. Are your 4e Modern rules from your group or did you get them online? I've been interested in playing 4eM, but I haven't had the desire to do the conversion myself, lol. And when we played Modern, we usually went with the "Try getting shot less" method.
#8 Cyber-Dave May 08, 2010 10:34:39	Amethyst Foundations just got released. You should be able to use those rules, with a bit of house ruling, to play a 4e Modern game.
#9 SerenaDawn May 08, 2010 12:13:30	Well just reducing the emphasis on combat goes a long way. In a simulationist game, one firefight (if it doesn't kill them) can have the PCs recovering for weeks, so they will probably try to pick and choose their battles (and as DM try not to railroad them into too many of them). Medical facilities also help. However, I'm currently playing a 4e-based modern game so healing surges take care of that, although combat is still a lot more dangerous and less prevalent than in a typical 4e game. Are your 4e Modern rules from your group or did you get them online? I've been interested in playing 4eM, but I haven't had the desire to do the conversion myself, lol. And when we played Modern, we usually went with the "Try getting shot less" method. Bone is reffering to the playtest of the NeuroSpasta 4E rules being produced by us. Amethyst, as Cyber-Dave mentioned, is related to it. They have the same combat system and most of the gear. NeuroSpasta just has a much more complicated character creation system. Amethyst is also available now and Neurospasta won't be for a while...
#10 slayer_5 May 10, 2010 11:39:52	Well, problem is, the smartest character is using his smarts to build badass weapons, and not for intel. The other non-com, doesn't really care too much out of game about stuff, so they aren't as useful as they could be. But yeah, I do think they could have done much, much better, with a bit of forethought... It seems though, that the general answer is "less combat, hide more". Got it. :P
#11 TheRealOrion May 16, 2010 10:23:17	If your players aren't interested in making an effort, if they want to do the minimum and slide through the game, then there isn't much you can do. You can't make them take it more seriously. You can't make them care. If their idea of fun is wandering through the game beating the bad guys and soaking up acolades, then I'd recommend that you either design a game around their minimum-effort style, or simply retire from GMing. You can't change your players, and you'll only drive yourself nuts trying. You might be able to show them a different, more fun way to play, but you have to do that openly and honestly. Changing the game around them in order to make them change their play style is passive-aggressive manipulation. Talking to them directly about their gaming preferences is direct an honest. Just my two cents...