I can has magic? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

I can has magic?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
winternova
Mar 16, 2008 22:45:48 I've got a relatively 'down to Earth' (har har) future campaign, that's fairly bland as far as the genre goes. There aren't any strange alien races, ancient mystical forces, and space opera-esque unbelievable warp speeds going on.

The majority of weapons are still throw lead, starships don't have shields, and jumpgates connect the vast network of human colonies together. There's no universal utopia, either. The UN shares a tense alliance with the Frontier Confederacy, and the rim is plagued by the brutal lawless. The only 'alien' threats, are in fact completely human.

I've long wanted to incorporate a power center called the 'First Church of the New Star,' and give them access to divine magic. This would be a total disconnect, but I intend to change the feel of it just enough for it to fit.

In a classic campaign, the magic thing is believable. The priest starts bellowing prayers, and a massive column of flame bursts at his opponent's feet. The priest waves his hands over a fallen comrade, and motes of light infuse the poor sap, who suddenly springs to life with a gasp, and looks around all kinds of confused.

The way I want to implement this is as though the priest - acolyte - simply wills the effect into being. Nothing flashy, more like a stroke of luck, or an unbelievable coincidence.

Suppose the acolyte goes to cast an inflict wounds spell. He strikes out his opponent, and instead of his touch channeling negative energy, the target reels back, and collides with a shorted-out power conduit that shocks the bejesus out of him for the appropriate spell damage.

Of course, spells with less dramatic effects would be the easier ones to justify - bane, and bless; enhance ability could be justified as a burst of inspiration or superhuman ability. Resist energy could be justified as sheer chance - a laser bolt that you were sure was to be fatal graces across your arm, or debris prevents a roaring fire from harming you as you make your escape from a dangerous situation.

Things like animate dead would likely have to be counted out. That's a little too far.

Along those lines of thought, what about the technomage? A computer nerd extraordinaire, armed with a card computer, and some seriously whacked out programs.

Assume spellfiles are represented as programs that are so bleeding edge, so theoretical that in executing them, the program immediately degrades. It's useless. Just a bluescreen magnet until the technomage gets a good eight hours of rest, and goes about repairing the damage.

In a more conventional campaign, a fireball's a wee pea-sized pebble that bursts and blooms when it reaches it's predetermined distance, burning the sin out of anything in it's burst radius. Suppose under these rules, the technomage whips out his card computer, or wristcomp, or whatever his 'techno-focus' is. He interfaces with a nearby terminal on the starship they're planning to escape, and sends a pulse down a conduit along the wall. When it reaches a certain distance, it destabilizes, and backs up on itself like a sewer pipe, and explodes in a fiery ball.

Mage hand could be represented by tinkering with the artificial gravity generators. Arcane Eye could just be a simple security system hack. Suppose haste doesn't actually make you move faster, but it monitors the situation, and feeds you the information you need. Probabilities, and such, of what's going to happen next, what the logical course of action is, and in those few moments of high efficiency, you actually appear to be moving a bit faster.

The idea's somewhat stolen from a character in Clive Barker's Jericho, who's described as a 'reality hacker.' In the game, she uses an advanced computer to slow time, and to 'download' additional ammunition and supplies. There's the inspiration, but even that seems a bit much.

Under this system, the technomage would require their 'techno-focus,' that computer of theirs, or bit of sensor equipment, or whatever they've designated. Even if they have access to another computer (Such as the wall terminal in the fireball example,) the technomage would still need their 'techno-focus' for the spell-files.

In some situations, these abilities just wouldn't be feasible, I mean - how do you interface with a tree? In situations where the hero would be at a disadvantage, a computer use, or knowledge: technology check would be required. Suppose it might only be 15 if on a city street populated only by a few lamp posts, stoplights, and your enemy's getaway car - success means your electromagnetic pulse goes off without a hitch, somehow you transmit on a frequency that enters via the car's radio, and shorts the ECU. Maybe failure means your attempt to blind him by intensifying the stoplights only succeeds on tripping the opticon, giving them smooth sailing out for a couple blocks.

In some situations, at the DM's whim, the technomage might be completely useless. Stranded on a swamp planet with your ship stuck in the mud would likely limit your effective range to within a hundred feet of the ship.

Fighting a group of aboriginal warriors on a sun-scorched plain just wouldn't be the same as fighting a guerrilla unit in a plane going down in flames. While the latter has opportunities all around, the former... well... unless the bones in their hair have the 'satellite uplink' gadget, you're kind of useless.

I suppose you all get the point. Opinions welcome. I'd really like to see this come into play. It seems like it would be an excellent addition if implemented properly.

Thanks.
#2
strange_person
Mar 17, 2008 5:14:54 So, for the Technomage, you'd treat low-tech and no-tech areas as impeded and dead magic zones, respectively? Sounds interesting, but I'm a real nut for balance. Where/when do the Acolytes lose power?
#3
winternova
Mar 17, 2008 15:12:05 Exactly. Instead of relying on ley lines, or vortices, the technomage would require an area with sufficient enough technology to manipulate. The technomage would have to choose his battlegrounds carefully. You know, maybe trying to lure his adversary to a computer store, instead of ambushing him at his cabin in the woods.

Insofar as the Acolyte, his power doesn't require the fancy gadgetry that the technomage does. It comes from within him - it's all his belief. His faith. While the battlefield may limit his opportunities, as flaming wrath can't just come out of nowhere in this system, there really aren't any other limiting factors that I can see - after all, you can't put a limit on freak coincidence, and uncanny luck.
#4
strange_person
Mar 17, 2008 16:09:57 If all acolytes are New Star followers, perhaps their powers are limited in ways related to the church's teachings. A techno-mage can carry along some gadgets to retain limited magic access even in otherwise tech-free areas, but is better served by luring targets into a starship or lab; an Acolyte could bring a holy symbol, or a portable shrine of some sort, to get access to divine magic in unhallowed areas, but is better served by luring demons and unbelievers onto holy ground. Stuff like that.

It would be a lot easier to come up with more specific examples if more information was available about the Church of the New Star's doctrine and practices.
#5
winternova
Mar 18, 2008 18:22:42 The First Church of the New Star is under the belief that God (Maybe just their God) wants the followers to flee the core systems, and live 'simpler' lives on the frontier. The followers eschew a good amount of modern technology, and outside of the occasional starship, and the Cruciform pistol (A laser pistol with a strong stun setting) these pilgrims live essentially at PL 5 in a PL 6.5 campaign.

The source of their abilities isn't a higher power, however, it's their strength of will and their indomitable faith. They can't be separated from that - it springs from within them.

Their powers can be limited by their surroundings, but never fully snuffed out.
#6
strange_person
Mar 19, 2008 12:13:02 So, anywhere a techno-mage would have unrestricted magic, an Acolyte has to deal with a chance of failure or reduced spell effectiveness? If you go for the skill-based failure chance, it's probably better to use Knowledge: Theology and Philosophy rather than Spellcraft, since the skill check represents rationalization rather than the ley-line equivalent of vector calculus.

Another thing to consider: when the skill check to use a spell in borderline circumstances fails, is the spell used up? I could see arguments either way, and it certainly doesn't need to be the same answer for both classes.
#7
winternova
Mar 19, 2008 17:32:01 The Acolyte's powers aren't subject to suppression from any outside force, save another Acolyte due to the fact that his power is wholly internal. Circumstances may limit the spells that could be cast, however, but not the potency of those spells.

The Technomage under this system will replace Knowledge: Arcana with Knowledge:Technology for purposes of class requirements, and his spell casting is reliant almost completely on his surroundings. It'd probably be a good idea to do as you suggest, and use the ley line rules from Urban Arcana to represent the amount of technology available to utilize.

Suppose, under these rules, that the Technomage begins with a -2 to his caster level, thus requiring a 'strong' amount of technology about him. As he progresses in levels, this penalty lessens. Suppose to -1 at fifth level, and +0 at ninth level, representing more streamlined, potent programs.

Alternately, the Technomage makes a Knowledge: Technology check upon casting his spells, against a dynamic DC that's decided by the technology level of his surroundings. The result of this check determines whether or not the spell can be cast (Fail by less than five and the spell is wasted) or how powerful the spell actually is (failure reduces the caster level by two, success gives the Technomage a neutral modifier, success by five to nine grants a plus one to casting level, and by ten or more grants a plus two.)

The Technomage, nevertheless, casts his spells most often by interfacing his computer (most likely a card or wrist computer, and the Technomage's 'focus') or by affecting technology around him. Spells allowing 'self' as a legal target are represented by extremely accurate probability generators that impart a touch of brief genius on the caster - as the haste example above.

Regardless of die rolls, the limit of spells really comes down to what makes sense - what's believable, and not too outlandish.

By the way, thanks for bouncing the ideas back.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 winternova Mar 16, 2008 22:45:48	I've got a relatively 'down to Earth' (har har) future campaign, that's fairly bland as far as the genre goes. There aren't any strange alien races, ancient mystical forces, and space opera-esque unbelievable warp speeds going on. The majority of weapons are still throw lead, starships don't have shields, and jumpgates connect the vast network of human colonies together. There's no universal utopia, either. The UN shares a tense alliance with the Frontier Confederacy, and the rim is plagued by the brutal lawless. The only 'alien' threats, are in fact completely human. I've long wanted to incorporate a power center called the 'First Church of the New Star,' and give them access to divine magic. This would be a total disconnect, but I intend to change the feel of it just enough for it to fit. In a classic campaign, the magic thing is believable. The priest starts bellowing prayers, and a massive column of flame bursts at his opponent's feet. The priest waves his hands over a fallen comrade, and motes of light infuse the poor sap, who suddenly springs to life with a gasp, and looks around all kinds of confused. The way I want to implement this is as though the priest - acolyte - simply wills the effect into being. Nothing flashy, more like a stroke of luck, or an unbelievable coincidence. Suppose the acolyte goes to cast an inflict wounds spell. He strikes out his opponent, and instead of his touch channeling negative energy, the target reels back, and collides with a shorted-out power conduit that shocks the bejesus out of him for the appropriate spell damage. Of course, spells with less dramatic effects would be the easier ones to justify - bane, and bless; enhance ability could be justified as a burst of inspiration or superhuman ability. Resist energy could be justified as sheer chance - a laser bolt that you were sure was to be fatal graces across your arm, or debris prevents a roaring fire from harming you as you make your escape from a dangerous situation. Things like animate dead would likely have to be counted out. That's a little too far. Along those lines of thought, what about the technomage? A computer nerd extraordinaire, armed with a card computer, and some seriously whacked out programs. Assume spellfiles are represented as programs that are so bleeding edge, so theoretical that in executing them, the program immediately degrades. It's useless. Just a bluescreen magnet until the technomage gets a good eight hours of rest, and goes about repairing the damage. In a more conventional campaign, a fireball's a wee pea-sized pebble that bursts and blooms when it reaches it's predetermined distance, burning the sin out of anything in it's burst radius. Suppose under these rules, the technomage whips out his card computer, or wristcomp, or whatever his 'techno-focus' is. He interfaces with a nearby terminal on the starship they're planning to escape, and sends a pulse down a conduit along the wall. When it reaches a certain distance, it destabilizes, and backs up on itself like a sewer pipe, and explodes in a fiery ball. Mage hand could be represented by tinkering with the artificial gravity generators. Arcane Eye could just be a simple security system hack. Suppose haste doesn't actually make you move faster, but it monitors the situation, and feeds you the information you need. Probabilities, and such, of what's going to happen next, what the logical course of action is, and in those few moments of high efficiency, you actually appear to be moving a bit faster. The idea's somewhat stolen from a character in Clive Barker's Jericho, who's described as a 'reality hacker.' In the game, she uses an advanced computer to slow time, and to 'download' additional ammunition and supplies. There's the inspiration, but even that seems a bit much. Under this system, the technomage would require their 'techno-focus,' that computer of theirs, or bit of sensor equipment, or whatever they've designated. Even if they have access to another computer (Such as the wall terminal in the fireball example,) the technomage would still need their 'techno-focus' for the spell-files. In some situations, these abilities just wouldn't be feasible, I mean - how do you interface with a tree? In situations where the hero would be at a disadvantage, a computer use, or knowledge: technology check would be required. Suppose it might only be 15 if on a city street populated only by a few lamp posts, stoplights, and your enemy's getaway car - success means your electromagnetic pulse goes off without a hitch, somehow you transmit on a frequency that enters via the car's radio, and shorts the ECU. Maybe failure means your attempt to blind him by intensifying the stoplights only succeeds on tripping the opticon, giving them smooth sailing out for a couple blocks. In some situations, at the DM's whim, the technomage might be completely useless. Stranded on a swamp planet with your ship stuck in the mud would likely limit your effective range to within a hundred feet of the ship. Fighting a group of aboriginal warriors on a sun-scorched plain just wouldn't be the same as fighting a guerrilla unit in a plane going down in flames. While the latter has opportunities all around, the former... well... unless the bones in their hair have the 'satellite uplink' gadget, you're kind of useless. I suppose you all get the point. Opinions welcome. I'd really like to see this come into play. It seems like it would be an excellent addition if implemented properly. Thanks.
#2 strange_person Mar 17, 2008 5:14:54	So, for the Technomage, you'd treat low-tech and no-tech areas as impeded and dead magic zones, respectively? Sounds interesting, but I'm a real nut for balance. Where/when do the Acolytes lose power?
#3 winternova Mar 17, 2008 15:12:05	Exactly. Instead of relying on ley lines, or vortices, the technomage would require an area with sufficient enough technology to manipulate. The technomage would have to choose his battlegrounds carefully. You know, maybe trying to lure his adversary to a computer store, instead of ambushing him at his cabin in the woods. Insofar as the Acolyte, his power doesn't require the fancy gadgetry that the technomage does. It comes from within him - it's all his belief. His faith. While the battlefield may limit his opportunities, as flaming wrath can't just come out of nowhere in this system, there really aren't any other limiting factors that I can see - after all, you can't put a limit on freak coincidence, and uncanny luck.
#4 strange_person Mar 17, 2008 16:09:57	If all acolytes are New Star followers, perhaps their powers are limited in ways related to the church's teachings. A techno-mage can carry along some gadgets to retain limited magic access even in otherwise tech-free areas, but is better served by luring targets into a starship or lab; an Acolyte could bring a holy symbol, or a portable shrine of some sort, to get access to divine magic in unhallowed areas, but is better served by luring demons and unbelievers onto holy ground. Stuff like that. It would be a lot easier to come up with more specific examples if more information was available about the Church of the New Star's doctrine and practices.
#5 winternova Mar 18, 2008 18:22:42	The First Church of the New Star is under the belief that God (Maybe just their God) wants the followers to flee the core systems, and live 'simpler' lives on the frontier. The followers eschew a good amount of modern technology, and outside of the occasional starship, and the Cruciform pistol (A laser pistol with a strong stun setting) these pilgrims live essentially at PL 5 in a PL 6.5 campaign. The source of their abilities isn't a higher power, however, it's their strength of will and their indomitable faith. They can't be separated from that - it springs from within them. Their powers can be limited by their surroundings, but never fully snuffed out.
#6 strange_person Mar 19, 2008 12:13:02	So, anywhere a techno-mage would have unrestricted magic, an Acolyte has to deal with a chance of failure or reduced spell effectiveness? If you go for the skill-based failure chance, it's probably better to use Knowledge: Theology and Philosophy rather than Spellcraft, since the skill check represents rationalization rather than the ley-line equivalent of vector calculus. Another thing to consider: when the skill check to use a spell in borderline circumstances fails, is the spell used up? I could see arguments either way, and it certainly doesn't need to be the same answer for both classes.
#7 winternova Mar 19, 2008 17:32:01	The Acolyte's powers aren't subject to suppression from any outside force, save another Acolyte due to the fact that his power is wholly internal. Circumstances may limit the spells that could be cast, however, but not the potency of those spells. The Technomage under this system will replace Knowledge: Arcana with Knowledge:Technology for purposes of class requirements, and his spell casting is reliant almost completely on his surroundings. It'd probably be a good idea to do as you suggest, and use the ley line rules from Urban Arcana to represent the amount of technology available to utilize. Suppose, under these rules, that the Technomage begins with a -2 to his caster level, thus requiring a 'strong' amount of technology about him. As he progresses in levels, this penalty lessens. Suppose to -1 at fifth level, and +0 at ninth level, representing more streamlined, potent programs. Alternately, the Technomage makes a Knowledge: Technology check upon casting his spells, against a dynamic DC that's decided by the technology level of his surroundings. The result of this check determines whether or not the spell can be cast (Fail by less than five and the spell is wasted) or how powerful the spell actually is (failure reduces the caster level by two, success gives the Technomage a neutral modifier, success by five to nine grants a plus one to casting level, and by ten or more grants a plus two.) The Technomage, nevertheless, casts his spells most often by interfacing his computer (most likely a card or wrist computer, and the Technomage's 'focus') or by affecting technology around him. Spells allowing 'self' as a legal target are represented by extremely accurate probability generators that impart a touch of brief genius on the caster - as the haste example above. Regardless of die rolls, the limit of spells really comes down to what makes sense - what's believable, and not too outlandish. By the way, thanks for bouncing the ideas back.