I have a question relating to Zombie d20 games.

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

3p1t4ph

Jan 18, 2009 14:38:13
How does one keep excitement in the game, once the initial "here are some zombies" comes about?

I, like many, have amused the thought of a zombie d20 game. However, here's my question: How does a GM keep the game fun and active after a PC has found and secured some sort of method to keep themselves alive for the foreseeable future?
After all, a team of smart players with smart characters will probably find a way to avoid the undead/infected in some way that makes defense of the location easy regardless of number. Raised walls, islands, isolated locations and a means to create a self-sufficient community.
Even if the players decide to be scavengers instead of survivalist farmers, here's a problem; Hole up, scout for food, and move on gets old after a while.

Some of the ways I have theorized keeping the danger and fear alive are these.

1. Your HP caps at level 3: That's right, 3 HD to determine life or death. Saves at 5: You eventually become infection-resistant, but never fully so. Only the immune can be safe from the infection, though the particularly tough may appear immune after being bitten several times.
2. The infection claimed most of humanity before we even knew it in some airborne form; how it spread or where it came from is unknown. Those who survived the initial infection are a toss-up: some are immune to the bite-transfer infection. Some are carriers, immune themselves but able to spread it. Few others, the rarest, are fully immune, incapable of catching or spreading infection. The PCs will not know if they are immune or not until someone fails a save versus the infection. If the survivor is a carrier? It might be even harder to tell, and may never be known.
3. Multiple forms of infected: I haven't yet developed the undead or infected for my ideas, but the fact that making other forms, ones that the players discover over time, seems like it could mix things up.

Other than this, I have no idea. Sure a new zombie or a little fear might keep them busy, but that won't stop the plot from getting old; they'll just want to know when the next new type appears or when the next location to check out becomes available.

What I need is plot and ways to mix up the world in ways to keep them interested. Anybody got ideas I could use or work on for my own setting so that things don't get ancient and repetitive?
#2

Master_Vega

Jan 18, 2009 14:48:11
The Resident Evil series makes a habit of throwing, bigger, badder, smarter t-virus abominations at the player.
In I am Legend, the vampires (which are portrayed more like zombies in the movie... haven't read the book) act very feral, but start to learn traps and tactics from the humans.

Perhaps, after the shock of the typical brainless zombie passes, have them start to evolve...
#3

3p1t4ph

Jan 18, 2009 14:56:33
The Resident Evil series makes a habit of throwing, bigger, badder, smarter t-virus abominations at the player.
In I am Legend, the vampires (which are portrayed more like zombies in the movie... haven't read the book) act very feral, but start to learn traps and tactics from the humans.

Perhaps, after the shock of the typical brainless zombie passes, have them start to evolve...

Perhaps. I like the idea of making harder monsters, but part of what my group and I like about zombies is their feral, animalistic nature and predatory attack patterns. But making them stronger and more intelligent to some degree is always okay.

I just don't want to go as far as RE mutation-wise; Project NEMESIS and all were too hokey for me.
#4

shinobi_guyver

Jan 18, 2009 15:02:49

One of the major things you should probably mention is how the zombie apocalypse came about.

Was it a virus, a bacteria, a spore, what?

Taking the evolution route as suggested by Master Vega would be more doable (perhaps with stats as well) if we knew the method of transmission.

#5

3p1t4ph

Jan 18, 2009 15:20:01
Well, my idea centralized on the idea of it being a viral infection. While I don't have much in my head on it, I want it to spread quickly. Flu-like symptoms originally, and often confused with as a flu, leading to the false treatment of the virus causing it to continue mysteriously. After a few weeks, everyone who is infected starts dropping off. Whether they die (for undead zombies) or slip into comas (living infected), I haven't picked yet.
It doesn't take long for them to start coming back. Less than an hour later, from maybe 5 to 45 minutes, they wake up. Whether in hospitals, bedrooms, or even on the streets and floors, they get up.
And that's when they start attacking.

I want the initial monsters, living or undead, to be slow crawler types: The kind that you could get away from with a brisk walk, and walk circles around if there weren't so many of them all trying to munch of you. After time, though, I do want some to get smarter, faster, and overall better.
#6

TheRealOrion

Jan 18, 2009 19:44:13
It seems to me that if your group of PCs is interested holing up and just surviving the zompocalypse, there must be people who are willing to exploit the zombie to their own ends, right?

I can think of several pseudo-scientific and/or magical explanations for how people could harness the zombies as tools of war, and thus make themselves war-lords in the new world order, and/or use the zombies as tireless sources of labour. I'm thinking partly of the film Fido, where they attach control-collars to zombies and make them slaves.

So perhaps, once they've secured themselves in safe environment, you could set up some kind of rival enclave that actively attacks other enclaves using the zombies. That way, the zombies themselves are still mindless/feral, but there is an intelligence controlling and/or directing them, and that could make for a good long-term villain.
#7

Wolfen_Fenrison

Jan 19, 2009 0:41:10
In my blog www.myspace.com/hakkensensai I have rules posted for infectious flesh eating zombies, titled "Living Dead" after the Romero movies. If you like it I can send you the Original document.

Also, I can't remember where I read it but when making a saving throw for disease and you roll a natural 1, you become a carrier for the disease instead suffering the effects.
#8

Ragitsu

Jan 19, 2009 1:36:58
I just don't want to go as far as RE mutation-wise; Project NEMESIS and all were too hokey for me.

.
#9

degausser

Jan 19, 2009 3:24:56
Part of the problem with plagues is that Viruses can mutate, and they mutate extreamly fast. The common cold, for instance, mutates so often that we cannot develop a 'cure' for it, just like the flu.

So, why not have some strains of Zombification that do other things? After all, something that can take out humanity is going to have to mutate a lot. Maybe one strain increases muscle mass, making big hankin 'brute' zombies. Maybe one leaves some Intelect intact, resulting in smarter Zombies who still want to eat brains, but can use weapons?

Alternatly, you can do the thing from Tremors 2. Each time the Zombies encounter a problem (Like high walls) they thow themselves at it until one of them stumbles upon a solution (Like climbing another's back)

A third option is to have a zombie 'template' that you can apply to exsisting people. That way there are high-lvl zombies in the world. Your PCs might find themselves surprised when 'just another zombie' floors one of them because he used to be a heavyweight boxer.
#10

Wolfen_Fenrison

Jan 19, 2009 12:05:03
The most intense zombie video game I've ever played is the Nazi Zombies mini-game at the end of Call of Duty 5, in it you unceasing waves of zombies that faster and stronger every few waves.

The most ridiculous was Dead Rising, come one taking out zombies with a nerf mega man blaster or thrown CD cases (yes I've done it), and possibly getting bit enough times to turn even a 10th level tough hero into a zombie.

I'd post my romero zombie stuff here but I don't know how to post tables.
#11

TheRealOrion

Jan 19, 2009 14:13:32
Zombie template. That's brilliant. The "stupid" factor cuts out a lot of options, but if they retain muscle memory and physical attributes, then you can come up with some pretty cool zombie enemies.
#12

shinobi_guyver

Jan 19, 2009 15:24:23
Zombie template. That's brilliant. The "stupid" factor cuts out a lot of options, but if they retain muscle memory and physical attributes, then you can come up with some pretty cool zombie enemies.


And we have a winner!!!!



Muscle memory can count for a lot, and with the fact that the body is brain dead, there is no mind to put a limit on physical ability. There might not be any adrenaline to help, either, but you're still looking at undead creatures that could be stronger than when they were alive.
#13

TheRealOrion

Jan 19, 2009 16:15:54
Well, if we're going to get scientific about it, "muscle memory" is in the brain (the "motor cortex," I think). It's a function of laying neural pathways that become habits. It's the same way we walk, talk, and tie our shoes. But if you don't try to come up with a "scientific" explanation for it, it still works that zombies can use their physical abilities from life.

And it was Wolfen's idea, really.
#14

shinobi_guyver

Jan 19, 2009 16:40:56
Well, if we're going to get scientific about it, "muscle memory" is in the brain (the "motor cortex," I think). It's a function of laying neural pathways that become habits. It's the same way we walk, talk, and tie our shoes. But if you don't try to come up with a "scientific" explanation for it, it still works that zombies can use their physical abilities from life.

And it was Wolfen's idea, really.


It's still a good idea, nonetheless.

I remember reading somewhere an explanation of exactly how the zombie virus works (I can't remember for the life of me where, but it was good enough to remember).

It said that the virus breaks down and destroys the frontal lobe of the brain. Without the complete brain, the creature dies. The virus then grows rapidly to fill the area where the frontal lobe was, taking control of the back of the brain (where the motor cortex is, if I remember correctly).

By being located in the front of the head, it was easier for the virus to spread, by taking advantage of proximity to the saliva glands. This explains why the zombie virus spreads through the bite of the infected creature and not any other way (unless you get a mouthful of the infected gray matter when you bust its' head open with a pipe).


And there was a music video by Trivium (it might have been someone else) my brother showed me. The story in the video was that Russian scientists discovered a scorpion like creature that released spores. When the spores were placed in a healthy person, any injury healed very rapidly. Then they experimented with putting the spores in dead creatures, the first being a mummified cat. Needless to say, the cat "revived" and became the first zombie. Using it as a weapon of war, the Russian scientists spread the spores over America and waited for the dead to kill most of the population before offering to help. The special anti-zombie weapon? An isotope of Beryllium. The beryllium killed the spores that animated the dead, which "killed" the zombies.


Just a couple of ideas for detailing the zombies, have fun.
#15

degausser

Jan 19, 2009 18:46:40
If we want to be all scientific about it . . .(And keep in mind I am no neurosurgon), and also this is an extreamly simplified version.

Your brain functions much like a computer. Your frontal lobe makes concious decisions (Like I want to express the need for food.)

Then, they send this information to your Temporal lobe, where most of your language skills are held, and that translates the desire into language (whichever language that may be.)

Then the information is sent to your Cerebellum where the "How to speak" program is loaded, which translates the language into how to make your muscles do what you want them to do.

Then THAT information is sent to your motor cortex, which distributes the signals to the apporpriate muscles (In this case, your lips, tounge, and jaw) and you say "Braaaaaaaains"


Now, the Zombie virus could very well basically cause an overload in the addiction center of the brain (for human flesh.) This would basically make someone only able to think about their addiction (human flesh) and would probably prevent a lot of cognitive thinking. But when the order came down to 'fight those guys' the cerebellum could interpret that as 'Boxing' and start going at them as if they were in the ring.
#16

Wolfen_Fenrison

Jan 19, 2009 20:15:02
In crunch terms zombies keep all weapon and armor proficiencies as, now feats that improve unarmed combat; improved unarmed strike, brawl, combat martial arts ect. should count as such IMO.

I also use the rule that unlike the bulk of undead romero zombies are susceptible to crits, sneak attacks, or any other attack that relies on having vitals (the head being the only one really), i do this because i feel that called shots on body parts over complicates combat and i have found a system that i don't like. And since fast zombies react to pain more than slow ones, if a fast zombie takes 10 or more points of damage from one attack they have to make a MDT save or be stunned for one round.
#17

johannixx

Jan 19, 2009 23:35:58
In most good zombie fiction, the zombies aren't the toughest obstacle to survival. That honor belongs to humanity itself. Maybe sentimentality leads a survivor to keep his infected loved ones penned up in the hope for a cure, but instead they break out and start infecting people inside the 'safe' zone? Or maybe an outlaw biker gang was strong and ruthless enough to survive the initial onslaught, and now rides from town to town, scavenging supplies and raping/murdering all the other survivors they come across?

Worse yet, what about an outpost of survivors that's organized, reasonably well equipped (raided a National Guard armory, for instance, or actually ARE the National Guard gone bad), and determined to spread their sphere of control into neighboring areas. Their demands are simple: submit or die.

All of these give you options for breaking the status quo. The latter two options also let you have higher-level bad guys. Plus, even as the PCs get higher and higher in experience, enough zombies will result in a bite eventually, and enough bites will result in a natural 1 on the Fort save eventually. That should be enough to put the fear of God into the PCs if they're smart.
#18

TheRealOrion

Jan 19, 2009 23:47:46
I agree with your Crunch. I'd say that calling Romero zombies "undead" would be a misnomer. They ought to be a custom Template, I think. And yes, absolutely yes, on the Sneak Attacks. You must either cut off the head or destroy the brain. It's the only way to be sure.
#19

Wolfen_Fenrison

Jan 20, 2009 0:25:46
My take on zombies are the romero dead movies, the resident evil games and movies, and the zombie survival guide.

Feats for the zombie hunter: First Strike, Great Fortitude, Improved Critical, Sneak Attack, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization
All these feats (cept for great fortitude) are taken from Monte Cook's World of Darkness.

As for using the Undead type, I can't see what other type to use and I like the idea that in games that use FX rules zombies additional strengths (immune to mind-affecting spells and so forth, the way I put it if a player tries to make magical or psionic mental contact "You feel uncontrollable hunger, so intense it almost overtakes your mind, you are shaken for 1d4 rounds) and weaknesses (turning, positive energy and holy attacks, spells that target undead).
#20

TheRealOrion

Jan 20, 2009 11:44:22
Because if you label them undead, then they automatically aren't vulnerable to Crits, mostly. Also, the whole "doesn't have a Con score" thing kind of bugs me, but maybe that's just me. The thing is, it depends on the kind of zombie you're talking about. They're not always explicitly undead. Sometimes it's an infection or a toxin.
#21

Wolfen_Fenrison

Jan 20, 2009 19:08:30
The ones that are zombie-like but alive and under some kind of disease or toxin would be like an infectious maniac or tainted reaver template (maybe I'll whip one up).

And as far as your issues with the undead type (ie. crits and what not) check out my Living Dead (Slow) and Living Dead (Fast) rules.
#22

TheRealOrion

Jan 20, 2009 19:57:11
Dude, nice. I like those. Makes me wonder (on an unrelated point) if anyone has posted cinematic vampire variants. There are lots of different kinds of vamps, in various movies, and it'd be nice to be able to use some of them.