Heir occupation possibly ( I haven't made my final choice yet)
Cybertaker feat
Windfall feat
Skill Implant
Skill Plexus
Feat Plexus
and the profession skill
InGame Bill Gates can only do that for 2 or 3 months before he is broke
cause Glocks are over PDC15 and buying just one takes millions of buying power away from Bill (Wealth drops from 85 to 84). To Bill, the cost of a Glock or a MalibuBeachHouse is the same: his Wealth drops by 1
However, the MalibuBeachHouse comes with all the eletricty and pay per view TV he could ever use, but he has to buy ammo for the glock all the time
Lets come up with something better. right here, right now. We're smart guys, right?
Personally I have been thinking of a different way to abstract things (unless we actually want to count dollars and manage spending vs. income). Imagine that actual wealth is just as much colorful backstory as anything else on a character. What really matters isn't how much you COULD buy, but what you actually have right now.
For action heroes, what you have right now, isn't limited to what you could afford to buy. A rich hero who wants a battle wagon filled with guns orders it from a specialist and in a week or two a shiny new battle wagon with matte black finish filled with an armory is delivered with the keys in a nice walnut box with brass hinges. A poor (but no less experienced) hero calls in a few favors and friend of a friend liberates a van, rebuilds it in his shop and fills it with guns that were theoretically "destroyed" in the last government guns for cash program. Statistically, the two vans and their contents are the same, one is just new and shinier than the other but each matching the style and background of the respective hero.
So then what limits what a character can and should have? I think it should be tied to feats. Now this is what I'm still iffy on, but gun related feats grant you access to ownership of guns, vehicle feats - vehicles, armor feats - armor, etc. So the more you specialize in an area with your feats, the more gear you have access to. Should you lose some of that gear it just takes you a bit of time to get a replacement (perhaps between games or in a certain amount of downtime with a skill roll). Otherwise they can scrounge equipment on site. What keeps them from hoarding? Well, alot of that stuff is illegal or hard to store, even if you have a mansion. Spending the feats that grants you access to it also represents the licenses you had to get or the cops you had to pay off in order to hoard the stuff hassle free. Otherwise you get raided and the gear is confiscated.
As far as ammo and weapons on hand goes, I think there should be body slots for carrying gear and ammo. Specific levels of concealability can be charted against how many clips you can carry, how many grenades spare weapons etc. When you use up your ammo, you either need to find more on site, or can "recharge" with down time, assuming you can get access to a contact or a stash. In movies, the "arming up" scenes are a common trope.
Alternatively, we can just eliminate bullets as a costly resource. While you still have to reload when the clip is empty, you always have another clip. Its less realistic, but still movie real.
Anyway, these are just Ideas I have had, but never ironed out the kinks on. Tell me what you think or propose an alternative.
I see your argument that this is about what you can get, not how "wealthy" you are, but I think that's flavour that could be built into the current Wealth system. We could just as easily call it an "Acquisition" score, for example, and explain not in terms of just buying/selling/shopping, but as you say, calling in favours and such. Given that that's a pretty simple flavour adjustment, I wonder if you can explain how you picture your feat-based system addressing the brokenness (which I look forward to understanding more fully).
Finally, a request for those of us who run games in countries other than the US: it would be really nice to have a quick, simple way to adjust Restrictions on firearms and keep players from buying up armouries with a few legal applications. It's just not that easy to get your hands on weapons up in Canada (which is where I run my games) or the UK, but all the d20M rules are currently written for America, so I end up with players who have AK-47s in their trunks and then are shocked, shocked, when the Mounties confiscate them.
Looking forward to what the thread has to offer!
Maybe they should have a seperate wealth feat progression? whenever they get a feat, they also get a material feat? that way, they dont have to choose between the ability to do something cool and sweet gear. They could still take Windfall, which would give them like, another material feat.
How about each one gives a certain wealth point return? like, you can pick the Firearms feat, which gives you 15 points to spend on a gun, and then Improved Firearms, which boosts it to 18 (or something)?
You would only wind up with one gun, though. So maybe the Improved Firearms feat would give you one at 18 and one at 15, and then like, Advanced firearms would give you one at 24 (or whatever), one at 18, and one at 15.
What do you think?
For the sake of those of us who are not optimisers, can someone explain or direct us to a link that explains what's really so broken about Wealth? Most of the (limited!) experiences I've had tell me that most Wealth cheats are a matter of not reading the rules closely enough (which we can certainly fault the system for: creating rules that no one can understand). Also, Wealth doesn't seem to scale very well. Other than that, I'm unclear on how it's so broken that it needs to be replaced. Not arguing that it isn't broken. Just looking for a run-down of how it is.
I see your argument that this is about what you can get, not how "wealthy" you are, but I think that's flavour that could be built into the current Wealth system. We could just as easily call it an "Acquisition" score, for example, and explain not in terms of just buying/selling/shopping, but as you say, calling in favours and such. Given that that's a pretty simple flavour adjustment, I wonder if you can explain how you picture your feat-based system addressing the brokenness (which I look forward to understanding more fully).
Finally, a request for those of us who run games in countries other than the US: it would be really nice to have a quick, simple way to adjust Restrictions on firearms and keep players from buying up armouries with a few legal applications. It's just not that easy to get your hands on weapons up in Canada (which is where I run my games) or the UK, but all the d20M rules are currently written for America, so I end up with players who have AK-47s in their trunks and then are shocked, shocked, when the Mounties confiscate them.
Looking forward to what the thread has to offer!
I hate to tell you this, but if US cops find an AK-47 in your trunk, losing the gun is the least of your problems. Laws on firearms vary from state to state, but fully automatic weapons are generally illegal. Its possible to get a special license to own and practice with one, but use is still illegal. It is also illegal for anyone with a felony conviction to possess ANY firearm. Yes, we Americans love our guns (Especially us Texans), but things aren't quite so outrageous as to need special rules, unless its illegal for Canadians to own semiautomatic weapons too.
Most of Trapped Slider's Wealth breaking requires the use of special gear (namely the aforementioned cybernetic implants) that come from a source book that is already dubious. I would simply house rule that there are some skills and feats that can't be hardwired into the brain.
Personally, I don't think it (the wealth system) is unusable so much that it just isn't very elegant. It is very similar to the Resources feature of the old Marvel RPG where it is a power rank like anything else and you rolled to get things when you needed them. It worked for a superhero game, but not so much in something less... comicbooky.
I'm just floating some ideas
The trouble I find with the Wealth system is that although the core concept is actually kind of elegant, it's then layered with little exceptions and patches to make it work in-game. Even just rolling for a Wealth increase when you level-up is quite complicated compared to, say, getting new Hit Points or increasing your Base Attack. If the same concept could be streamlined, I still think it could work. And since I primarily run superhero games, "comic-booky" is suits me just fine.
Every day for the erst of his life, irl Bill Gates can buy a Glock.
InGame Bill Gates can only do that for 2 or 3 months before he is broke
cause Glocks are over PDC15 and buying just one takes millions of buying power away from Bill (Wealth drops from 85 to 84). To Bill, the cost of a Glock or a MalibuBeachHouse is the same: his Wealth drops by 1
However, the MalibuBeachHouse comes with all the eletricty and pay per view TV he could ever use, but he has to buy ammo for the glock all the time
You say so much with so little, backstabbist
.By the way, want to drive up to Seattle with me to snag a free Glock ;)?
that come from a source book that is already dubious. I would simply house rule that there are some skills and feats that can't be hardwired into the brain.
Excuse me, but "dubious" is a rather subjective term. Regardless of one's feelings on the matter, d20 Future is legally official gaming material.
And I can think of a way to get Windfall as a cybernetic feat in terms of story/thematics.
And I can think of a way to get Windfall as a cybernetic feat in terms of story/thematics.
I'm honestly going to have to call you out on this. How do you justify windfall from a cybernetic implant?
There could be a bank account or resources that are reserved for someone with a specific memory bank or sequence of complex codes. Hell, this could even involve an adventure where the PCs are locating the chip in order to secure the means to start an army or empire.
Enter the cybernetic implant of the Windfall feat: "Well, the information was verified. You do indeed possess Heir Renard's memories"
While I'm at it, someday i've gotta run a game with Bill Gates as a gunrunner.
Excuse me, but "dubious" is a rather subjective term. Regardless of one's feelings on the matter, d20 Future is legally official gaming material.
And as GM, I have every right (and occasionally exercise it) to look a player in the eye and say "tough sh*t, I don't want it in my game." Just because it's published doesn't mean I have to obey it. The rules are there to support the story, not vice-versa.
And I can think of a way to get Windfall as a cybernetic feat in terms of story/thematics.
Okay, again, just picking this up as I go and I haven't read Future, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me that cyberware con load only certain things into your head. Windfall represents something happening to you--your rich aunt dies, some stocks mature, you find a golden ticket in your chocolate bar. It's a feat only because d20 has no other way to give you something like that. I only just realised two days ago that it really ought to be an "advantage" or a "perk" or whatever you system calls those little things you can buy that make your character better, but aren't the result of some kind of skill.
And as GM, I have every right (and occasionally exercise it) to look a player in the eye and say "tough sh*t, I don't want it in my game." Just because it's published doesn't mean I have to obey it. The rules are there to support the story, not vice-versa.
Needlessly adversarial
. When did I say you have or don't have to use it? I don't use lots of official material everyday.trappedslider is working within the rules. Therefore, no matter how "silly" a combination might seem, if it's rules legal, well, it's legal.
Okay, again, just picking this up as I go and I haven't read Future, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me that cyberware con load only certain things into your head. Windfall represents something happening to you--your rich aunt dies, some stocks mature, you find a golden ticket in your chocolate bar. It's a feat only because d20 has no other way to give you something like that. I only just realised two days ago that it really ought to be an "advantage" or a "perk" or whatever you system calls those little things you can buy that make your character better, but aren't the result of some kind of skill.
Yeah. I'm not too thrilled on the idea in general, but as treasure, definitely.
And as GM, I have every right (and occasionally exercise it) to look a player in the eye and say "tough sh*t, I don't want it in my game." Just because it's published doesn't mean I have to obey it. The rules are there to support the story, not vice-versa.
This is absolutely 100% undeniably true. However, we must always keep in mind that just because you can rule zero something, doesn't mean the RAW is not inherently broken.
My two cents: The infinite wealth cheat should be taken as a thought exercise and a(nother) good example why GMs need to be very careful with d20 Future materials.
.Needlessly adversarial
Sorry, man. I didn't meant to be belligerent. My bad.
trappedslider is working within the rules. Therefore, no matter how "silly" a combination might seem, if it's rules legal, well, it's legal.
But "legal" is whatever you determine it to be at your table. I mean, don't get me wrong. I appreciate the rules. They're there to do a job and I'm very happy when they do it well, which is the bulk of the time. But if a player tries to insist that they can do X or Y because "it's legal," if what they're doing is hurting the game, then I'm going to explain that to them and ask them to stop. I'm not going to actually swear at them, though. I really shouldn't have said that. I am going to just say, "Yeah, you found a loophole. That's really too bad, because it's making the game less fun for everyone."
Yeah. I'm not too thrilled on the idea in general, but as treasure, definitely.
Why not?
This is absolutely 100% undeniably true. However, we must always keep in mind that just because you can rule zero something, doesn't mean the RAW is not inherently broken.
But it doesn't mean that it is, either. I'd still really like to know what's inherently broken about the Wealth system. Can anyone direct me to a thread where this has been covered or a blog or something? I really want to know.
Why not?
Because I too am fond of Wealth being something akin to an Advantage or Benefit.
Before the big forum change, someone posted a few ways to break the Wealth system on the Character Optimization board. I wish I would have saved it.
But it doesn't mean that it is, either.
Actually yes, it does. If something is broken its broken, just because you can fix it doesn't mean its not initially broken. Replacing a shattered window doesn't mean the window never shattered.
I'd still really like to know what's inherently broken about the Wealth system. Can anyone direct me to a thread where this has been covered or a blog or something? I really want to know.
Personally I don't think the Wealth System on its own inherently broken, open for abuse and a logical oddball, yes. But its not really "broken" until you start adding in supplemental material from d20 Future.
Its like Pun-Pun, its an example why GMs need to be careful with rules.
Because I too am fond of Wealth being something akin to an Advantage or Benefit.
I assume there's a "not" missing from that sentence. If that's the case, what I'm asking is why you don't like that way of doing things. Just curious why it is you feel that way. Hoping to learn something.
Actually yes, it does. If something is broken its broken, just because you can fix it doesn't mean its not initially broken. Replacing a shattered window doesn't mean the window never shattered.
I think we're talking past each other. What I originally said was that I don't want something in my game, and I was trying to make the point that just because something is published material doesn't mean I have to obey it (I think we agree on that point, yes?). However, other GMs might be perfectly comfortable with it. They might have a different gaming style, they might encourage optimisation to the point of munchkinism. That might be how they have fun.
To use money as an example, I had a Shadowrun GM years ago who really liked handing out mitt-fulls of money and XP ("karma") because it made the whole game high-powered and it meant we progressed to retirement quickly so we could make up new characters. He had his thumb on the Fast-Forward button, and that was the way he liked it. My point is that a lot of these kinds of things come down to game-play preference rather than "brokenness."
Jimmy The Squeeler looks in the +2 Wealth bag and sees $500,
but when he hands it to Princess the +2Wealth bag is now $32000.
Princess then buys a single gift certificate for 50 Pistols from Earls Gun Emplorium & Saloon with that $32k.
Jimmy echanges the gift dertificate for 50 glocks, sells each of the PDC18 guns singlely used for PDC15,
and Jimmy goes up +50 Wealth
Jimmy then puts a PDC49 cashiers check in the bag,
he loses 1 Wealth,
Then puts a PDC48 check in the bag for another -1 Wealth
and then Me & BigAl cash those checks to go up a bunch of Wealth each
etc
Thanks.
While my friend and I were making d20 Future characters the other day, we came across a mean infinite loop involving the cybernetic device called a feat plexus. The problem lies in the Windfall and Cybertaker feats.
Windfall and Cybertaker cannot be incorporated into a feat plexus. Conceptually speaking, a feat plexus is a cybernetic implant that allows a character to add new information, skills, reflexes, and maneuvers -- in other words, benefits that could reasonably be learned or gained through training. Thus, the GM should disallow any feat that doesn't match this concept in a feat plexus. In general, if you spot a combination that looks like an unreasonable loophole in the rules, assume you can't use it.
so,while its not welcomed by the Rules as Intended,its well with in Rules As Written since neither one of those feats mainly the cybertaker's entry doesn't say you can't do it....
And narukagami is right this is going to be a thought exercise,when i don't have any one over and enough time to do which will hopefully be later tonight.
Both Ragitsu and TheRealOrion are right. The writers for d20 future wrote the rules in a way which opened it for abuse,thus creating the RAW,while thinking that players would go by Rules as Intended.
However a GM is well within his or her right to stand by the answer given in the above article which goes by RAI
As for Ragitsu's example It makes for an interesting game if not a full out campaign. A bit like Johnny Mnemonic.
Yep. Wealth is "variable money".
I've never thought of that problem before (duh), but it does remind of something I noticed quite some time ago Wealth often works in the opposite way from wealth (in the real world). With Wealth, it's harder and harder to get more Wealthy (your Profession checks get higher and higher). Whereas, in the real world, the richer you are the easier it is to get richer. Conversely, if you're not Wealthy, it's not that tough to increase your buying power, just wait around for a level-up that you can't fail at or take a few points of Profession (because you can take Profession and then roll your check, at every level!). Whereas, in the real world, if you have no wealth at all, if you're living on the street, it's extra extra tough to make any real money amount of money. Now, for game purposes, I like that a lot. It means that over time, the system ought to correct itself. But in terms of replicating how money works, it's barmy.
With Wealth, it's harder and harder to get more Wealthy (your Profession checks get higher and higher). Whereas, in the real world, the richer you are the easier it is to get richer. Conversely, if you're not Wealthy, it's not that tough to increase your buying power, just wait around for a level-up that you can't fail at or take a few points of Profession (because you can take Profession and then roll your check, at every level!). Whereas, in the real world, if you have no wealth at all, if you're living on the street, it's extra extra tough to make any real money amount of money. Now, for game purposes, I like that a lot. It means that over time, the system ought to correct itself. But in terms of replicating how money works, it's barmy.
Funnily enough, the Windfall feat, in and of itself, seems to work this way. You get the Wealth bonus and a Profession bonus. I always assumed the Profession bonus was in part due to the greater ability to manage and allocate income to things such as stocks, bonds, commodities and the like from the surplus money that was gained.
Too bad this was never applied to the Wealth system in general.
Jimmy has a con of 17 gives him a mod of +3 and then he picks windfall as feat +3 for wealth along with the +6 from the heir occupation so right now he has +9 wealth already....and he rolls a 4 for his normal starting wealth adding that up he now has a starting wealth of 13 now adding the max number in his profession skill he has 4 so he adds a +1 to it,so now its 14,
i'll be back to finish after i read something in the books...
it is a cash price transaction of ancient chinese financing: Won Lump Sum.
You are paid off in full.
So you can use your Wealth 30 to buy a house,
then buy 15 or 20 Glocks,
then sit in your house with Wealth 3 and never have to worry about losing it.
All taxes and power bills and landscaping is taken care of for forever.
A guy with a nice house, and several nice cars, and some nice guns,
can have a Wealth0 and live the life of luxury
without even having a job
cause the game doesnt require characters to spend 8hr a day at work 5 days a week to make their profession rolls. You get a paycheck, but you dont go to work. You have a house, but you dont make payments ... which is defined by there being no possible way for you to miss a payment.
If a party spends 8hrs traveling, may they spend the next 8hrs crafting, then sleep for 8 hrs?
Heck no!
You can only spend 8hrs a day doing stuff, you cant even spend Purchase Time buying stuff after a 8hr travel day. So how exactly can characters spend any time adventuring, traveling, crafting or purchasing, after working on the clock for their boss for 8hr?
Characters are just unemployed guys with guns, that get a 'profession' paycheck? ;)
When you pay the PDC for a car or House,
it is a cash price transaction of anchient chinese financing: Won Lump Sum.
man...your on fire for the jokes...i'm thinking you have a few ranks in perform: stand upCharacters are just unemployed guys with guns, that get a 'profession' paycheck? ;)
You made me laugh, backstabbist, and have a point on the gaping hole of logic, but really, is d20 Subway or d20 Barnes & Nobles what most gamers go after ;)?
You encounter 1d4 tourists and a dog. The angry looking man is waving a receipt. Roll for Initiative.
now its time to show it off,so if my math is wrong then by all means fix it....
Jimmy has a con of 17 gives him a mod of +3 and then he picks windfall as feat +3 for wealth along with the +6 from the heir occupation so right now he has +9 wealth already....and he rolls a 4 for his normal starting wealth adding that up he now has a starting wealth of 13 now adding the max number in his profession skill he has 4 so he adds a +1 to it,so now its 14,
i'll be back to finish after i read something in the books...
okay,now jimmy decided to go and buys a feat plexus taking a 20,but still losing just one point of wealth, so now he has 13 for his wealth. so now he buys the windfall implant which is also a PDC of 25, and this time he loses 5,
but thanks to the occupation he can't drop below 10,and he gains a +3 thanks to the implant so he is now at 13 again...
if some one wants to double check this all...
okay,now jimmy decided to go and buys a feat plexus taking a 20,but still losing just one point of wealth, so now he has 13 for his wealth. so now he buys the windfall implant which is also a PDC of 25, and this time he loses 5,
but thanks to the occupation he can't drop below 10,and he gains a +3 thanks to the implant so he is now at 13 again...
if some one wants to double check this all...
then he goes and buys the windfall implant again for another 25 and dropping him down back to 10
then he decided to up his skill in profession by buying the skill plexus with a PDC of 25 dropping him back down to 10,he then proceeds to buy the skill implant of profession bumping his profession rank up to 6 from 4 bumping his wealth bonus up to a +2 so now he has a total of 12 in his wealth bonus.
Okie dokie. Keep going with this tomorrow: i'm interested.
You don't automatically add any increase from the bump in your profession to your wealth right?
You don't automatically add any increase from the bump in your profession to your wealth right?
Are you referring to bonus to Wealth just from having ranks in Profession? If so, are you speaking of it being added in per level, or whenever you use the Skill/Feat implants?
I am a little confused.
Are you referring to bonus to Wealth just from having ranks in Profession? If so, are you speaking of it being added in per level, or whenever you use the Skill/Feat implants?
I am a little confused.
okay the book says you when you level up you make a profession check to see if your wealth just from that skill alone goes up and i'm wondering if it should go up even when you up your rank in profession thanks to the skill implant or should jimmy just waits till he levels up?
That could go either way, really. You might want to try to diverge the Infinite wealth cheat at this point to account for both possibilities.
thats why i stopped to double check and or figure this out,but now i can go back and just go windfall/cybertaker road and just add in the skill stuff later...
then he goes and buys the windfall implant again for another 25 and dropping him down back to 10
then he decided to up his skill in profession by buying the skill plexus with a PDC of 25 dropping him back down to 10,he then proceeds to buy the skill implant of profession bumping his profession rank up to 6 from 4 bumping his wealth bonus up to a +2 so now he has a total of 12 in his wealth bonus.
so now with a +12 wealth bonus he goes and buys the cybertaker feat bumping back down to 10 but allowing him to have 1 more windfall feat implanted. he buys it bumping his wealth back to 13 for now.
He then goes and buys another feat plexus allowing four more feats to be implanted. so buying three windfall bumps his wealth up to 16
okay the book says you when you level up you make a profession check to see if your wealth just from that skill alone goes up and i'm wondering if it should go up even when you up your rank in profession thanks to the skill implant or should jimmy just waits till he levels up?
You make that Profession check only when you level up. Getting new ranks in the feat does not trigger that check. Levelling up does. It's just that without Future tech, you would only get new skill points during the level-up process.
so now with a +12 wealth bonus he goes and buys the cybertaker feat bumping back down to 10 but allowing him to have 1 more windfall feat implanted. he buys it bumping his wealth back to 13 for now.
He then goes and buys another feat plexus allowing four more feats to be implanted. so buying three windfall bumps his wealth up to 16
After much thought this actually just causes a loop since he would keep dropping back down to 10...
however if we were to go with the skill implant instead :
The character has a current profession rank of 6 right now and a wealth of 13,so he buys up to four skill implants bumping his profession up to 10 and his wealth down to 10,he then proceeds to buy another skill and feat plexus making sure to get cyber taker on that feat implant
so he then adds four more skill implants of profession bumping his ranking up to 18 and dropping his current wealth down to 10 again
if he were to level up right now he would get a wealth bonus in crease of +4,now the chart stops at 21-23 with a +5
he would need to get at least 30 if my math ranks in profession to break 20, which he could easily do with the combo of Heir,skill,feat plexus and implants
and considering that the player would buy profession skill implants x4 which be 8 since it gives a bonus of +2 for each implant and along with a +1 for exceeding the check by 5 and as long as his current wealth when he makes the check isn't over 10 it should be easily done.
Player: "...And that's how I got a Wealth bonus of +160!"
GM: "So you took a bunch of implants that boosted you Wealth? Do you have any idea of how lame that sounds?"
Player: "Hey, it's the Profession skill!"
GM: "Here's a new house rule: You don't get to boost your Profession skill with cybernetic implants. Reset your Wealth bonus, kid. It was all just a dream."
-DF
-DF
is the concept of what Profession Skill is supposed to represent: employee expertise.
How can we say that the implant will make you a better Carpenter, it will make you a better Mechanic, it will make you a better Lawyer or Historian... but it wont make you better as a paid mechanic or employed carpenter or practicing laywer.
PROFESSION (WIS; TRAINED ONLY)
Like Craft, Knowledge, and Perform, Profession is actually a number of separate skills. You could have several Profession skills, each with its own ranks, each purchased as a separate skill. While a Craft skill represents ability in creating or making an item, a Profession skill represents an aptitude in a vocation requiring a broader range of less specific knowledge.
Check: You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your Profession check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession’s daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems.
Since Modern is not currency based they couldnt use the Earn Silver feature of the Profession skill, so they adapted it to the Wealth check when leveling. But the concept is the same, Profession skill is how good you are at working for pay.
Will we say the Implant wont work with Diplomacy or Intimidation, cause that is how you interact with others... like schmoozing customers / kissing up to the boss / beating down suppliers / haggling prices at work?
Will we say Implants wont work for Craft, cause that is physically performing a task... like Craft Structural is what Carpenters do for pay and Craft Electrical is what technicians do for pay?
Will we say that Implants wont work with Knowlege XXXX, cause employed lawyers / professors / scientists / SocialWorkers do to earn paychecks?
It gets real ugly real fast if you try to say Implants cant grant skill you can use to perform a task with a roll, cause that is what implants are supposed to be doing. Evenything that the Profession skill is supposed to encompass is doable by Implant: job knowlege & aptitude and employment social interaction
To say you will simply ban Profession skill from Implants to fix the brokeness
wont fix Implants granting a +56 Intimidate or +56 Craft Poison at 2nd level.
Then what, ban those skills too?
+56 Listen is auto hear a DC10 Unarmored Quiet Walk, +10 100' Away, +45 behind 3 solid walls
(Stevie 'The Bat' Koonz does a 'sonar ping' every 100' traveled, then writes out a list of all creatures within 150' of the party, even thru wall and doors)
...oh man, that is soooooo gonna get banned
When you have to ban every skill from being taken as Implant, sooner or later you have to say Implant is broken.... or admit that having Implants to boost wealth is just the same as having them to boost Intimidate, listen, craft, jump/swim
So what I'd suggest is that you don't get to take ranks in Profession before you roll your Profession check. Taking the ranks would thus indicate your increased knowledge and the next level you earn represents you putting that knowledge into practise. After all, you don't automatically earn XP for all the villains you're going to defeat just because your BA goes up. If you take away the sense of instant gratification, a lot of PCs won't bother.
The other thing that jumps to mind, though, is that skill implants would have a very strong impact on a real economy. If people can suddenly just buy professional expertise, then you'll very quickly divide the culture between those who can and those who can't afford those upgrades. Rich people will have them put into their kids at age 10, and poor people will, once again, be shut out of earning Mad Cash. Much like D&D, where PCs are a specific kind of rich people (and how!), it sounds like in Future, PCs end up being the technological elites. Rather than trying to GM our way around that problem, it might be something worth exploring in a game.
All of that being said, a major problem, here, is the idea that PCs have a day job that earns them money, but they never have to show up for it or actually play any of it. Now, I'm not suggesting that they should have to roll to see if they land the big account or manage to sell a 50" flat-screen in order to make their Wealth, but GMs absolutely should enforce people's professional responsibilities. "What do you mean you stake out the house for three days straight? Dude, you have a job!" or "You can't afford to be seen running through the street with a sword and a shotgun, your professional reputation would be destroyed." Alternatively, the low-Wealth PC who is essentially homeless has all the time in the world. More money usually means more responsibility, which usually means more time behind a desk and/or on the phone. The reason that hero characters in comics have day jobs is partly because they provide fodder for storytelling. We should use that more.
And yet all it takes is a simple "No" from the GM.
-DF
Whether you allow it or not, I was just pointing out the idea is not so incredulous.
how exactly would that impact windfall...specially if you've used the wealth already?
Couldn't you get feat plexus things with one cybertaker feat (which lets you get more cybernetics) and 3 windfalls? rinse and repeat.
Unless thats what you did. I didn't read the whole thread.
Maybe you could justify the wealth bonus from cybernetics as them paying you for being a test subject. They're testing to see if their cybernetics won't kill you.
Couldn't you get feat plexus things with one cybertaker feat (which lets you get more cybernetics) and 3 windfalls? rinse and repeat.
Unless thats what you did. I didn't read the whole thread.
Thats what we did,but it creates a loop,since the heir occupation never lets you go below 10,and the PDCs are all 25 for the msot part.