Is it legal to publish said houserules then, or are the mechanics some of us put a hours (and sometimes days) into forever the property of WotC?
The answer to this question kinda affects my further use of this board to post my houserules on... as I've decided I'd rather keep my homebrewed stuff to myself if it means I can publish it later, not that it doesn't pain me to snatch that stuff away from the community when at least a few people really like it.
Note: I'd like to find a place to post my more public rules [my SRD, I guess] on without worrying about copywrite issues, and then add further material exclusive to 'published editions' if I ever get that far. Also, before anyone starts bickering: I'm not forgetting people who want to PDF my stuff, or the people who helped me with my larger projects; we'll chat about that if I even still own my work. :P
Does anyone know how exactly this works? Did I miss something clearly stated in the CoC?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
I've read the CoC and whatnot, but I was wondering something about houserules posted for critique and/or fun on the boards: what if we take them off of the boards?
Is it legal to publish said houserules then, or are the mechanics some of us put a hours (and sometimes days) into forever the property of WotC?
The answer to this question kinda affects my further use of this board to post my houserules on... as I've decided I'd rather keep my homebrewed stuff to myself if it means I can publish it later, not that it doesn't pain me to snatch that stuff away from the community when at least a few people really like it.
Note: I'd like to find a place to post my more public rules [my SRD, I guess] on without worrying about copywrite issues, and then add further material exclusive to 'published editions' if I ever get that far. Also, before anyone starts bickering: I'm not forgetting people who want to PDF my stuff, or the people who helped me with my larger projects; we'll chat about that if I even still own my work. :P
Does anyone know how exactly this works? Did I miss something clearly stated in the CoC?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
The circumvant the problem you can post here :
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/
or
you can create your own wiki, like this person did, and put it in your signature http://anthroslaststand.wetpaint.com/
As for legal aspect you are refering to «the terms of use» TOU not the CoC:
1. User Content
By posting or submitting any text, images, designs, video, sound, code, data, lists, or other materials or information (such User-submitted content, collectively, "User Content") to or through a Site, including without limitation on any User profile page, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction.[/i]
Its clear to me that once you have posted something here Wotc can use it as they wish without any compensation to you. I think the intent of this part of the TOU is actually to protect THEM against lawsuits than an actual attempt to «steal ideas» from people.
I am unshure of the rights you have over stuff you have already posted. The last sentence of the quoted TOU is pretty cryptic. Any lawyer on the room?
Can WoC decide to charge folks for that IP they now own,
to include issuing me a Cease order for me to stop using their HE Shelling Formula without purchasing it?
I posted my HE Shelling formula to the boards.
Can WoC decide to charge folks for that IP they now own,
to include issuing me a Cease order for me to stop using their HE Shelling Formula without purchasing it?
I'm not a lawyer, but based on the information in anatakar's post, I'd say: Yes.
That's why I only post stuff on the boards that I actually WANT WotC to use.
I've got a ton of stuff for homebrew settings that I will NEVER post on these boards...
Oh well. I suppose my further houserules won't be posted here.
Or am I not turning the rights to my stuff over if I just link a gdoc with my homebrew stuff?
I posted my HE Shelling formula to the boards. Can WoC decide to charge folks for that IP they now own,
to include issuing me a Cease order for me to stop using their HE Shelling Formula without purchasing it?
I'm no lawyer but this is my interpretation : By agreeing to the TOU you gave it to them by posting it. They can exploit it and profit from it if they wish to. They can even invoque «proprietary rights» to stop YOU from profiting from it if they choose to.
Again, my understanding is that this clause is their to protect THEMSELVES from being taken to court every 5 minutes by «gamers» who see resemblance in a product to something they have posted at a prior date. BUT that doesn't prevent them from using the clause the other way around.
Would that clause stand the test of Court? No idea. It may be that judges would find such a clause illegal or unconstitutional. TSR and Wotc have lost copyright trials in the past...hence the appariton of the Open Game Licence.
Anyhow what's a HE Shelling Formula ?
Well that sucks. >_>
Oh well. I suppose my further houserules won't be posted here.
Or am I not turning the rights to my stuff over if I just link a gdoc with my homebrew stuff?
I see no statement of owning things linked to an external site/document. The clause refers only to THE SITE (this site and its subsites/forums). Many people have created their own wiki pages to curtail this problem. Just make shure you read the TOU of the wiki host you choose to go with.
Theoretically your could start a tread called «Master_Vega's Homebrew D20» with only a link to your wiki in it. If you bump it every so often and enough of us click on it every week players would see it and Wotc would have no rights to your material.
Direct posts...sadly Yes.
Anyhow what's a HE Shelling Formula ?
Backstabbist has a formula for calculating more realistic damage from High Explosive shells. (Like those fired from an Iowa class battleship). It makes for some VERY deadly weapons (which is as it should be in my opinion).
So basically, if you post something, they can use and modify it, for a profit if they want.
What if you post something, they don't use it, and then you publish it (for a profit or not) later? It's your work, you haven't sold or given the rights to it to anyone (through verifiable means like a contract or whatever), so.... what? Can they make a claim on it?
Better watch out, then. All those clammoring for a 4E-ified D20 Modern and posting stuff for it might be doing WotC's work for them. :\
Do they want us to be customers and trust them, or be wary of their every intention?
By posting or submitting any text, images,
<... blah blah...>
you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce <... yada yada yada...>
Just by posting it here, it instantly becomes WoC IP (int property),
which you will have a hard time selling to some other publisher.
So the HE Shelling formula I posted is now theirs,
so I cant sell that way to have explosion damage reduced by range to some other publisher.
I wonder if we include the OGL text in our posts,
if we can publish our own OGL stuff, post it here, that WoC cant grab up cause its OGL
I wonder if we include the OGL text in our posts, if we can publish our own OGL stuff, post it here, that WoC cant grab up cause its OGL
I smell a LOOPHOLE!
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]
What if you post something, they don't use it, and then you publish it (for a profit or not) later? It's your work, you haven't sold or given the rights to it to anyone (through verifiable means like a contract or whatever), so.... what? Can they make a claim on it?
Its understood that when you accept the TOU (when you create your account) you are agreeing to Wotc's terms, and there is electronic recorded proof somewhere on a server (a verifiable means) of your acceptance.
------
COMMENT ONE:
Are you naive (I mean no disrespect) enough to believe no one else is sifting through these treads and pilfering all the good ideas for there own profit? This is a PUBLIC place. Its not common practice for a game designer to put in public places material they which to market and profit from. IF YOU ARE REALLY serious about your endevours and wish to earn money with your ideas keep them to yourselves and then publish them under copywrite laws.
COMMENT TWO:
There is no point in demonizing Wotc about this. The TOU makes perfect sens from a corporate point of view. Why would they leave a door open for possible never ending law suits by an infinite row of «wronged» gamers?
Now that you are «fully» aware of the TOU you have to ask yourself do I «HONESTLY» think I can profit from my ideas (with the understanding that the OGL applies to them if you want to market them. You based your ideas off the D20 system! - If you want to be really free of any legal recourse you have to create an original game with its own original mechanics). If not keep posting. If yes keep your ideas to yourself and secure your rights legally. Posting on a wiki or gdoc won't secure your rights in any manner. It will only «not give them away for free» to Wotc.
I smell a LOOPHOLE!
You will be disappointed with the following guys : If you take the MODERN core rulebook and look at the bottom of page 2, the small print stipulates that «this Wizard of the Coast» game contains no Open Game Content. Same with Arcana, Future and all other Modern books I checked. What does it mean legally and in regards with the OGL license. No idea. I haven't read the OGL in ages. Its not to be found in any Modern books....
I'm considering removing my houserules from here anyway, in the interest of keeping all information that would go into said expansion as fresh as possible (if I ever publish anything using it). I'm also thinking about making a wiki for stuff I don't mind showing off (teasers, revamped advanced classes and whatnot).
I don't think I'll post anymore of my work here, however... Thanks for the legal tips and such, Atanakar. You've been a real help.
...
I don't think I'll post anymore of my work here, however... Thanks for the legal tips and such, Atanakar. You've been a real help.
Don't you disappear on us! Leave a mailing adress ;)
However, I might be interested in organizing a team for the expanded Modern. I have no disillusions of not needing playtesters/other designers to get such a large project done. :P
or would it be better to legally protect it i.e. a Lawyer.Edit: Master Vega in regards to you acquiring a team, via e-mail or website dedicated to the development team for playtest and consulting team members i.e. future to future development member. I think its a good idea and would not mind being a consultant member to have ideas tossed at...
Main Search: http://www.ask.com/web?q=RPG+Publishing+Rights&qsrc=0&o=0&l=dir
How to publish PDF: http://www.ask.com/bar?q=RPG+Publishing+Rights&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcheetoism.pbwiki.com%2FPublishing%2Ba%2Bpdf%2BRPG
It is indeed intended for protecting WotC from you. Potentially, any house-rule that you come up with may be an improvement to the system that WotC wants to include in its next edition. Maybe they saw your post and liked the idea. Maybe they came up with it by themselves. Maybe a somebody other than you submitted the idea independently of you. The ToU ensures that WotC can use that rule freely without fear of being sued. Also, that means they can make money on it without paying you a single cent.
However, they don't claim exclusive ownership of this, so you are free to use it in what-ever way you like, though most likely it'll still be restricted by the terms of the open license agreement.
If that were the case,
and we see my HE Shelling Formula used by WoC in Modern-II as the new standard blast rule,
I can still sell "my" formula to other game makers even though WoC printed it in Modern-II ?
Or once WoC prints my formual in Modern-II I can no longer do anything with it
DF
If that were the case,
and we see my HE Shelling Formula used by WoC in Modern-II as the new standard blast rule,
I can still sell "my" formula to other game makers even though WoC printed it in Modern-II ?
Or once WoC prints my formual in Modern-II I can no longer do anything with it
I expect that if/when they publish it as part of their rulebooks, you may then need to be ready to prove that you came up with it prior to their publication.
that the TOU protects WoC by eliminating IP contests?
It is easy to show my achived posts here & BG dates are before Moder-II gets published.
But the point that he made was that the TOU is there to protect WoC from having to prove they thought of it before me.... if it is here then it is theirs.
So how can me showing my post dates are before their Mod2 publish date be worth spit,
if they are back in the boat of having to show they thought it up before I posted it,
which is what the TOU stops from happening
The TOU stops me from selling my Formula
by WoC getting to claim it is their Modern2 IP,
regardless of when I posted it,
because they can agree that they are using MY posted idea that is now their IP to publish or sell.
DF
If that were the case,
and we see my HE Shelling Formula used by WoC in Modern-II as the new standard blast rule,
I can still sell "my" formula to other game makers even though WoC printed it in Modern-II ?
Or once WoC prints my formual in Modern-II I can no longer do anything with it
The point is,
if I got the legal archaic right,
that if your "formula" is applicable under the MSRD open game license,
then you can use it in your own published stuff
.
I guess you could indeed include it in a product,
say,
the book "d20 HE Shell Fragmentation" by backstabbist Games Inc.
You could then publish the product under the open game license
.
Selling your stuff
to another company would still be
under
the terms of the open game license so that would dictate if
you could
.
-DF
Dumbest ruling ever.
Do they want us to be customers and trust them, or be wary of their every intention?
You trust your friends and families.
You buy products from WoTC/Hasbro.
You should be wary of WoTC/Hasbos every intention.
.all my stuff is done using Metric Dice, not imperial/standard
sincerely
Not A PenDragon
What I want to know is what qualifies as "posting" to these boards. I've posted links to my stuff for years, and I've reprinted the occasional isolated thing, but I'd like to think that the extra separation (on a different server, accessible only by clicking a link), makes it "not on the WOTC boards." I have no illusions about making money off of my stuff, which is why I freely give it away. But if someone else then claims it as their own intellectual property and turns a profit on it, I'll be p1ssed. It's not to be sold. It's to be shared.
You have been doing the right thing by keeping your «stuff» on servers other than WOTCs. Having a link on WOTC (this board) doesn't grant them property of the stuff it links to. They even acknowledge this everytime someone clicks on an link to an external ressource by putting forth the «you are leaving WOTC site» warning.