Yesterday, on a tip from a customer, I went to check out Amazon's website. They're offering the D&D Gift Set-all 3 books-for $62.97. That's with free shipping (as long as you don't mind it shipping over 5-9 days). To put things in perspective, it's a $34.95 book selling for $20.99 each. Assuming a 50% margin, that's a profit to Amazon of $3.52 per book. It's also #69 on Amazon's books sales rank. Yippee for Wizards.
I can't afford to sell these books for $20.99 each. I have to charge sales tax. I have to pay rent and utilities and salary and insurance and all sorts of other things, and I do my business on a much smaller scale than Amazon. I have a huge preorder discount sale going on in my store: $10 off the price of the book; $34.95 books for $24.95. If I had a 50% margin, that'd be a profit of $7.48 per book; it's not what I'd like, but it's competitive with just about anyone else...except Amazon.
This might seem like a wonderful thing to the people over there at Wizards, but you're killing the community of gamers that made D&D (and Wizards) what it is today. Places like my store and others across the country serve as hubs of community expansion where new gamers mix with older gamers, find groups and other players to play with, and cross-pollinate ideas and play styles between different groups.
It is in the local gaming store that people move from one game to another. Where White Wolf gamers move to D&D, where Yu-Gi-Oh! players move to Magic, where Magic players move to D&D. While some might meet online-and I am sure your concept of the D&D Insider gaming table will encourage that-those folks are not, usually, new gamers. They're people who've been playing together for years who have moved apart. They're people who won't have the time to dedicate to playing in person. They're the kind of people who post on the forums here: fine folks, but not the majority of D&D players or consumers.
In a free marketplace, Amazon has the right to charge what it wants for those books. I don't know whether or not Wizards offers Amazon a larger discount than they do the local retailers, for bulk purchases or to maintain good relationships. I do know that places like Amazon have been known to sell Wizards products earlier than I get them. I do know that Wizards doesn't offer terms to their retailers: it's cash on delivery, every time, no matter how good or how long-lasting your business relationship is with them. For those not in the business, this stinks on ice compared to what other distributors offer to retailers.
I also know that Wizards has the power to change this. Just as Wizards offers incentives to Magic players to play (and buy) in local stores, with promo Magic cards and other event-based items available only here, they can do the same thing with D&D products. Upper Deck recently realized that the LGS was getting screwed by their selling Yu-Gi-Oh! cards to big-box retailers and released a set of cards that were only available through hobby shops (although these proliferated to online stores, which do the same thing as Amazon on a smaller market basis). Wizards could offer products and promotional materials that are -only- available if you buy the books in a hobby or local gaming store.
D&D Insider is going to be rough on the LGS to begin with, if their subscription-based fee and online tabletop gaming winds up taking money from the community and shifting content that we could sell in physical format to an online model. The long term future of pen-and-paper gaming doesn't lie in the online community. The World of Warcraft RPG has been out of print for a while, and its sales were never through the roof to begin with. Attempts to launch RPGs and card games based on WoW (or other online games) have fallen flat on their faces, with the possible exception of the WoW CCG, but my sales of that aren't exactly stellar.
Wizards, do something for yourself, your future, and the future of gaming. Give the local stores something to set them apart-something to incentivize people to buy books from us instead of through Amazon. Just as Wal-Mart has driven many small businesses in other retail venues out, Amazon is in danger of doing that to us, and I believe that in the long term this will hurt you as well.
To my fellow gamers: Please help out simply by posting to this thread with your thoughts. The company is likely to pay a great deal more attention to a post with lots of replies. Thank you.
Scott Roberts
General Manager
The Gamer's Gambit
26-13 Broadway
Fair Lawn, NJ 07410
http://www.gamersgambitonline.com
I'll point out that maybe the reason that there aren't alot of new players joining the ranks of D&D faithful is because the LGS since Hasbro brought out WotC are being forced out of bussiness. With the lack of advertisement, or even just a announcement to stockholders about 4th edition anybody who doesn't play table top RPG probably has no idea that 4th edition is even coming. So I am wondering how they plan on getting new people to be playing this game that they are supposedly aiming the new edition at? (I play MMOGs and know people who do...and no one even has a clue about 4th edition).
A LGS atleast provides things that Amazon, B&N, and Borders don't a way to meat new people with similar interest...alot of former players of D&D just don't play anymore because they don't have a place.
So I am interested in hearing anything that 4th edition, WotC, and Hasbro are offering to support small bussinesses that are the main reason that D&D is as big as it is today.
I don't know that you can really blame WotC for Amazon's prices. They are the Walmart of online shopping, and like Walmart are going to take losses on some products to push competators out of business. It is unfortunate, and even immoral, but it is a common business practice
I would like to see WotC doing more to support the purchase of their new product with local distributers. I know with their CCG lines this is easy (Buy a pack at "X" store to play a sealed deck tournement). I think with RPGs this is a touch more difficult.
As a suggestion, and I don't know if anyone at WotC will read this, maybe hold sanctioned games at local stores on the release date of 4e? They could also offer art cards with the books to local store purchases only. Neither of these are enough for me to step away from my computer and hop on public transportation (I don't drive), but it might be enough for others.
I really do wish you the best of luck with this, and I hope that the great minds who have brought us 4e can come up with better promotional ideas than I can.
You are looking for a way to convince Hasbro to change a major corporate policy.
You do have a whole lot of allies in this at WotC who do not believe TRPGs are dead. Of course Hasbro just installed a new CEO at WotC.
To my fellow gamers: Please help out simply by posting to this thread with your thoughts. The company is likely to pay a great deal more attention to a post with lots of replies. Thank you.
The forum is a great place to have the community talk to each other, but it's a terrible place to get WotC's attention. While it does accomplish it on extremely rare occasions, email to WotC is the primary method of actually getting noticed and having a response from them.
The forum is a great place to have the community talk to each other, but it's a terrible place to get WotC's attention. While it does accomplish it on extremely rare occasions, email to WotC is the primary method of actually getting noticed and having a response from them.
I have done so, actually; but it may well be that this can help too...
That said, while my experience says that most new players to games are brought about through word of mouth, I agree that LGSs have an important place in the community and the hobby. I do support efforts to support them. I like the MtG promos that go out to those stores, and vote for at least some idea-generation for similar things to do with that. I don't think this addresses the real issue (most people prefer price reductions to other benefits that a LGS can provide, which is a societal/personal issue), but it certainly wouldn't be bad for the LGS team.
I have preordered the three books through Cave Comics in CT, and have also played game day there two years in a row, infact every saterday I am there talking to the guys that run the place, and I feel for you guys when Amazon undercuts you, but that is what the USA free entorprise is based on. If it wasn't for the fact that I put my order in 2 weeks after gen con last year at cave, I would have pre ordered on Amazon when I saw it, it is a much better deal.
IF WotC is looking for idea's I would say sponcer D&D day twice a year, and have the minis be more unuiqe, something not in the upcoming sets but only in the D&D day games... but that is just my greddy thought process... or even better send out Playtest classes with the pre gens for D&D day, like Druid pre PHBII or Psion, and then let the people at D&D day give feed back...that might get more people there.
First, let me establish two things. I am the general manager of a local gaming store (LGS)-a small retailer supporting a local community of gamers. I love Wizards products, finding the quality of almost all of their lines to be superb. I am very excited on both a personal and professional basis about 4.0.
Yesterday, on a tip from a customer, I went to check out Amazon's website. They're offering the D&D Gift Set-all 3 books-for $62.97. That's with free shipping (as long as you don't mind it shipping over 5-9 days). To put things in perspective, it's a $34.95 book selling for $20.99 each. Assuming a 50% margin, that's a profit to Amazon of $3.52 per book. It's also #69 on Amazon's books sales rank. Yippee for Wizards.
I can't afford to sell these books for $20.99 each. I have to charge sales tax. I have to pay rent and utilities and salary and insurance and all sorts of other things, and I do my business on a much smaller scale than Amazon. I have a huge preorder discount sale going on in my store: $10 off the price of the book; $34.95 books for $24.95. If I had a 50% margin, that'd be a profit of $7.48 per book; it's not what I'd like, but it's competitive with just about anyone else...except Amazon.
This might seem like a wonderful thing to the people over there at Wizards, but you're killing the community of gamers that made D&D (and Wizards) what it is today. Places like my store and others across the country serve as hubs of community expansion where new gamers mix with older gamers, find groups and other players to play with, and cross-pollinate ideas and play styles between different groups.
It is in the local gaming store that people move from one game to another. Where White Wolf gamers move to D&D, where Yu-Gi-Oh! players move to Magic, where Magic players move to D&D. While some might meet online-and I am sure your concept of the D&D Insider gaming table will encourage that-those folks are not, usually, new gamers. They're people who've been playing together for years who have moved apart. They're people who won't have the time to dedicate to playing in person. They're the kind of people who post on the forums here: fine folks, but not the majority of D&D players or consumers.
In a free marketplace, Amazon has the right to charge what it wants for those books. I don't know whether or not Wizards offers Amazon a larger discount than they do the local retailers, for bulk purchases or to maintain good relationships. I do know that places like Amazon have been known to sell Wizards products earlier than I get them. I do know that Wizards doesn't offer terms to their retailers: it's cash on delivery, every time, no matter how good or how long-lasting your business relationship is with them. For those not in the business, this stinks on ice compared to what other distributors offer to retailers.
I also know that Wizards has the power to change this. Just as Wizards offers incentives to Magic players to play (and buy) in local stores, with promo Magic cards and other event-based items available only here, they can do the same thing with D&D products. Upper Deck recently realized that the LGS was getting screwed by their selling Yu-Gi-Oh! cards to big-box retailers and released a set of cards that were only available through hobby shops (although these proliferated to online stores, which do the same thing as Amazon on a smaller market basis). Wizards could offer products and promotional materials that are -only- available if you buy the books in a hobby or local gaming store.
D&D Insider is going to be rough on the LGS to begin with, if their subscription-based fee and online tabletop gaming winds up taking money from the community and shifting content that we could sell in physical format to an online model. The long term future of pen-and-paper gaming doesn't lie in the online community. The World of Warcraft RPG has been out of print for a while, and its sales were never through the roof to begin with. Attempts to launch RPGs and card games based on WoW (or other online games) have fallen flat on their faces, with the possible exception of the WoW CCG, but my sales of that aren't exactly stellar.
Wizards, do something for yourself, your future, and the future of gaming. Give the local stores something to set them apart-something to incentivize people to buy books from us instead of through Amazon. Just as Wal-Mart has driven many small businesses in other retail venues out, Amazon is in danger of doing that to us, and I believe that in the long term this will hurt you as well.
To my fellow gamers: Please help out simply by posting to this thread with your thoughts. The company is likely to pay a great deal more attention to a post with lots of replies. Thank you.
Scott Roberts
General Manager
The Gamer's Gambit
26-13 Broadway
Fair Lawn, NJ 07410
http://www.gamersgambitonline.com
I hate to be blunt but business is about competition, if Amazon found a way to offer the same product at a better price then they win. The customer also wins by getting a better price during a time of economic difficulty.
I feel for you friend, however...
This will eventually turn into a politico-economic flame fest of the likes that blood will literally spurt from your eyes and you will need duct tape to keep your head together.
I hate to be blunt but business is about competition, if Amazon found a way to offer the same product at a better price then they win. The customer also wins by getting a better price during a time of economic difficulty.
But won't the customer lose if D&D players stop coming to the local gaming stores to congregate because they were not buying any of the D&D books?
However, since the game stores here don't offer tables, I have no encouragement to "pay where I play." In fact, since moving here, all my gaming has been over OpenRPG. Thus, in a way, I am "paying where I play" by ordering on Amazon - I play at my computer.
Now, to support my LGS, I gave them all my old books so they can resell them if they want. I also get all my supplemental D&D books from them to support them.
So, I split my dollars somewhat and strike a balance. Given how much I've paid for D&D materials over the years and knowing there will be a new version again someday, I tend to pay attention to how much I invest in any given edition.
Cheers
Hasbro no longer believes print RPGs are viable. They are looking to phase them out completely. Hence the virtual tabletop and D&DI in general.
From everything I have seen about D&DI, it will not give you access to the books in a booklike form. Rather it will have a character generator, vitual table, and a book search tool. The search tool will either tell you a rule for a specific search you made or give you a page number were you can read it yourself. But you can't just read the book online.
JesterOC
BTW: I canceled my Amazon order of the core books as well as the DM screen and the First dungeon H1, and then ordered the same from my local store last week. If we ignore the local stores and cherry pick the best prices at Amazon, Amazon will be the only place we will be able to buy these games in the furture.
Hasbro no longer believes print RPGs are viable. They are looking to phase them out completely. Hence the virtual tabletop and D&DI in general.
Where have you seen evidence of this?
However, I do not believe that it is too much to ask for:
1) Wizards to offer Amazon (and other internet and mail-order firms) the exact same discounts they offer their hobby shops;
2) Wizards to guarantee that Amazon (and other internet and mail-order firms) receives the books at the same time that we do; and doesn't sell them until the release date; and
3) Wizards to provide incentives in the form of prize support or extras for hobby shops to bundle with 4.0 (and other books) which are not available through Amazon.
We'll even pay for the incentives.
As it stands now, Wizards offers prize packs for D&D Minis, Star Wars Minis, and Axis & Allies Minis. The D&D Campaigns Pack (which includes the Minis prize support) costs us money; it contains some repaints and some RPGA modules. The Star Wars minis prize pack is free.
Magic prize foils for Friday Night Magic are also free. At conventions, Wizards gives out playmats.
What Wizards could do is similar to what they have done with the Friday Night Magic program, the Night Below release and other such marketing tools. Night Below retailers got special d20 dice with the NB symbol on them to give out at release. Dungeons of Dread minis cases came (through our distributor) with 1 Tiefling Warlock repaint per case bought.
What I'm asking for them to do is something similar to this with D&D 4.0 books. Perhaps character sheets; perhaps a free month on D&D Insider for hobby store customers, perhaps foregoing the $12.95 D&D Deluxe Dice box price set for a free set of dice that we can give out with the books; there are dozens of incentives that could be offered. With the proliferation, for example, of "marks" in 4.0, a set of tokens or counters useable in tabletop to delineate marked targets would be wonderful.
Remember folks, you may save $10-40 for 3 books, but if you don't have somewhere to play and/or network, what good does it do you. Think about the costs of doing business with Amazon.com in more than just dollars and cents.
To be honest I'm actually tired of biting the bullet for LGS, as three LGS' have closed shop in the past three years, leaving me with no place else to turn to get D&D products, besides my local bookstore and the online market place. Since money has gotten tight due to inflation I will go where I pay the least, and it the small business owner is pushed out well so be it, I've payed too much to LGS' as it is.
The reason corporations exist is because it is cheaper to do things in massive bulk quantities; Amazon most likely purchases the books for exactly the same amount as everyone else. Their advantage, therefore, is in that they can deliver product to people anywhere and everywhere for less money. This is the reality, and it is hard for a local store to compete with a giant one for exactly this reason; the only real means of competition is higher quality product, or products which are unprofitable for the big guy but can be profitable for the little one.
What Amazon.com is doing is entirely legitimate, and yes, it is going to hurt FLGSs. However, there is no obligation on the part of Amazon.com to support the FLGS; that isn't their job. The FLGS has to come up with some way to compete with Amazon.
Wizards, do something for yourself, your future, and the future of gaming. Give the local stores something to set them apart-something to incentivize people to buy books from us instead of through Amazon. Just as Wal-Mart has driven many small businesses in other retail venues out, Amazon is in danger of doing that to us, and I believe that in the long term this will hurt you as well.
There is nothing they can do; online retailers are an entirely legitimate form of retail, and they make WotC tons and tons of money. Online retailers for Magic cards are even advertised on their main site via Google ads. Clearly, WotC makes money off of these people.
Magic is very different from D&D; people play in tournaments with Magic cards, and prerelease events help get copies of the cards out early. There really isn't an equivalent for Dungeons & Dragons; you can only get prerelease cards by playing in a tournament, but right there you already run into a problem translating it over to D&D. I could see RPGA events giving out stuff like promotional miniatures or perhaps dice, but...
I'll point out that maybe the reason that there aren't alot of new players joining the ranks of D&D faithful is because the LGS since Hasbro brought out WotC are being forced out of bussiness. With the lack of advertisement, or even just a announcement to stockholders about 4th edition anybody who doesn't play table top RPG probably has no idea that 4th edition is even coming. So I am wondering how they plan on getting new people to be playing this game that they are supposedly aiming the new edition at? (I play MMOGs and know people who do...and no one even has a clue about 4th edition).
This is mythology. There are more people playing Dungeons & Dragons today than there were in 1999. There is no evil corporation here, and any argument based on "There are fewer people playing D&D due to Hasbro's marketing practicies/evil overlordship" are inherently wrong.
I don't know that you can really blame WotC for Amazon's prices. They are the Walmart of online shopping, and like Walmart are going to take losses on some products to push competators out of business. It is unfortunate, and even immoral, but it is a common business practice
Are they taking a loss on it, though? At a bit less than four dollars a profit per book, if you're selling all three books and shipping them as a package, you might get better rates from the shipping companies, so you might be shipping them for, say, $8 a package. That still leaves a bit less than $4 of profit per set of books; sell about 300,000 sets of books this way and you've made a million dollars.
From what I have heard, WotC is supposedly beginning a marketing spike for new players come Fall '08. Obviously, we can only speculate on how effective that will be, or even how it will happen, but it is on the record.
One possible reason for this is that gaming groups will already know 4e, so the newbies won't be coming in to people who don't really know what they're doing and are equally new to the system.
Where have you seen evidence of this?
1) Wizards to offer Amazon (and other internet and mail-order firms) the exact same discounts they offer their hobby shops;
If anything, I'd expect them to get BETTER prices than local gaming stores, because they order much, much more.
2) Wizards to guarantee that Amazon (and other internet and mail-order firms) receives the books at the same time that we do; and doesn't sell them until the release date; and
It is not unreasonable for Amazon to take preorders; I'd expect gaming stores to do the same. They can't ship out the books until the same day they're released in FLGSs.
I tend to use Amazon to order things I can't get elsewhere, would be buying from one of their brick and mortar affiliates (borders and the like), or that I want to ship to a friend.
For gaming supplies, I go to my FLGS. The few dollars I can save by ordering it from Amazon in no way make up for the aesthetics of buying it at the local store. Holding a book in my hands and flipping through the pages, having a chance to talk to the owner of the store or the other patrons, looking at the events calendar and list of games looking for players, or even just seeing products that I didn't realize were out or even made, all those make the FLGS worth more than the discount on the books.
Some choices can't come down to just dollars and cents.
Some choices can't come down to just dollars and cents.
I used to have the same attitude when I was younger, but when you help support a LGS (or 3 stores in my case) and they all cut and run, or dump all other product types in favor of CCG's you lose the desire to support any LGS, in favor of paying cheaper prices to a different source. Incidently if I want to flip through a product (much like I plan to do with the Keep on Shadowfell) I can go to Barnes & Nobles, I don't need a LGS for that.
I'm not saying that LGS' are bad, but I am tired of paying a higher price so that the owner of my LGS can sell his store and stock to another person for a profit and run off with the money or close shop and sell his stock on ebay or sell it all on/through amazon.
First, let me establish two things. I am the general manager of a local gaming store (LGS)-a small retailer supporting a local community of gamers. I love Wizards products, finding the quality of almost all of their lines to be superb. I am very excited on both a personal and professional basis about 4.0.
Yesterday, on a tip from a customer, I went to check out Amazon's website. They're offering the D&D Gift Set-all 3 books-for $62.97. That's with free shipping (as long as you don't mind it shipping over 5-9 days). To put things in perspective, it's a $34.95 book selling for $20.99 each. Assuming a 50% margin, that's a profit to Amazon of $3.52 per book. It's also #69 on Amazon's books sales rank. Yippee for Wizards.
I can't afford to sell these books for $20.99 each. I have to charge sales tax. I have to pay rent and utilities and salary and insurance and all sorts of other things, and I do my business on a much smaller scale than Amazon. I have a huge preorder discount sale going on in my store: $10 off the price of the book; $34.95 books for $24.95. If I had a 50% margin, that'd be a profit of $7.48 per book; it's not what I'd like, but it's competitive with just about anyone else...except Amazon.
This might seem like a wonderful thing to the people over there at Wizards, but you're killing the community of gamers that made D&D (and Wizards) what it is today. Places like my store and others across the country serve as hubs of community expansion where new gamers mix with older gamers, find groups and other players to play with, and cross-pollinate ideas and play styles between different groups.
It is in the local gaming store that people move from one game to another. Where White Wolf gamers move to D&D, where Yu-Gi-Oh! players move to Magic, where Magic players move to D&D. While some might meet online-and I am sure your concept of the D&D Insider gaming table will encourage that-those folks are not, usually, new gamers. They're people who've been playing together for years who have moved apart. They're people who won't have the time to dedicate to playing in person. They're the kind of people who post on the forums here: fine folks, but not the majority of D&D players or consumers.
In a free marketplace, Amazon has the right to charge what it wants for those books. I don't know whether or not Wizards offers Amazon a larger discount than they do the local retailers, for bulk purchases or to maintain good relationships. I do know that places like Amazon have been known to sell Wizards products earlier than I get them. I do know that Wizards doesn't offer terms to their retailers: it's cash on delivery, every time, no matter how good or how long-lasting your business relationship is with them. For those not in the business, this stinks on ice compared to what other distributors offer to retailers.
I also know that Wizards has the power to change this. Just as Wizards offers incentives to Magic players to play (and buy) in local stores, with promo Magic cards and other event-based items available only here, they can do the same thing with D&D products. Upper Deck recently realized that the LGS was getting screwed by their selling Yu-Gi-Oh! cards to big-box retailers and released a set of cards that were only available through hobby shops (although these proliferated to online stores, which do the same thing as Amazon on a smaller market basis). Wizards could offer products and promotional materials that are -only- available if you buy the books in a hobby or local gaming store.
D&D Insider is going to be rough on the LGS to begin with, if their subscription-based fee and online tabletop gaming winds up taking money from the community and shifting content that we could sell in physical format to an online model. The long term future of pen-and-paper gaming doesn't lie in the online community. The World of Warcraft RPG has been out of print for a while, and its sales were never through the roof to begin with. Attempts to launch RPGs and card games based on WoW (or other online games) have fallen flat on their faces, with the possible exception of the WoW CCG, but my sales of that aren't exactly stellar.
Wizards, do something for yourself, your future, and the future of gaming. Give the local stores something to set them apart-something to incentivize people to buy books from us instead of through Amazon. Just as Wal-Mart has driven many small businesses in other retail venues out, Amazon is in danger of doing that to us, and I believe that in the long term this will hurt you as well.
To my fellow gamers: Please help out simply by posting to this thread with your thoughts. The company is likely to pay a great deal more attention to a post with lots of replies. Thank you.
Scott Roberts
General Manager
The Gamer's Gambit
26-13 Broadway
Fair Lawn, NJ 07410
http://www.gamersgambitonline.com
If you're in New Jersey, I'm going to guess you're ordering your WotC stuff through alliance, which if I remember correctly sells at 55%...
I remember we tried getting an account directly with Hasbro to push more magic and D&D, and to improve our margin on standard board games, but the minimum monthly order they wanted us to maintain was ridiculous.
My guess is that with a 50% mark down and vastly reduced overhead for operating sans-brick-and-mortar, making 3.52 per book is worth Amazon's while.
The only thing that can really be done is to accept the fact that Amazon is capable of offering lower prices to people who buy books their and think of other incentives to offer people who by books through you.
I'm not saying that LGS' are bad, but I am tired of paying a higher price so that the owner of my LGS can sell his store and stock to another person for a profit and run off with the money or close shop and sell his stock on ebay or sell it all on/through amazon.
With the experiences you've had, I can understand how you'd feel that way. The two main gamings stores in my area have been owned and operated by the same people, from the same location, for as long as I've gone to them, so my experiences have been much more positive than yours have been.
Please remember, though, that not everyone's experiences have been as negative as yours, and that many people have had long-standing and good relationships with their own gaming stores.
I'm sorry but this whole "Some choices can't come down to just dollars and cents" thing is ******** for a game. **** right now is getting expensive and if I can save gas money buying something from Amazon for cheaper I'm going with that. I got other things to get with my paper.
It's nice to know that you feel your money is more important than the socialization aspect of a gaming store. I feel differently. Almost everyone has something where the atmosphere, convenience, or even taste of what they are paying for is worth paying a bit more money, though. For me, the gaming store and gaming materials are one such commodity.
I use amazon for all my D&D needs because its available. One thing mentioned is amazon selling products before they arrive at the LGS. Perhaps you should look into your distributors because amazon has all my stuff delivered on release day not before, so if you don't even have your products by then the problem is coming from someplace else.
Please remember, though, that not everyone's experiences have been as negative as yours, and that many people have had long-standing and good relationships with their own gaming stores.
You are correct, I was simply offering my reasons for no longer supporting LGS' but I'm sure that there are many gaming stores out there that operate very well and have good relations with their customer base. I'm also sure that the CCG stores around here have good relations with their customer base, I'm just a bit bitter over the loss of the LGS' after more then a decade of support.
It would be pure folly to expect Amazon to go away. It would also be pure folly to believe that Wizards can (or should) control what price that Amazon sells its books at. I am not a communist; I believe in a free market economy.
However, I do not believe that it is too much to ask for:
1) Wizards to offer Amazon (and other internet and mail-order firms) the exact same discounts they offer their hobby shops;
2) Wizards to guarantee that Amazon (and other internet and mail-order firms) receives the books at the same time that we do; and doesn't sell them until the release date; and
3) Wizards to provide incentives in the form of prize support or extras for hobby shops to bundle with 4.0 (and other books) which are not available through Amazon.
So you're asking that everything be equal.. except for the things you want stacked in your favor? That is not a free market.
1. and 2. are already happening.
It's unlikely that WotC is offering Amazon a higher discount unless it's based on volume in which case that is perfectly fair. Local stores generally get the same options from their distributors when they buy in bulk and would cry foul if they didn't.
It's more unlikely that WotC is shipping the books earlier to different places, they aren't playing favorites. If Amazon gets the books first it's because it's because of logistics, not preferential treatment.
As far as incentives, special promotions that can only be had at brick and mortar locations is becoming more and more likely to irritate customers than anything else. There are many gamers that aren't happy with their LGS and bristle at being forced to patronize them.
What this boils down to is that LGS will have to step up their game to compete with online retailers. It's that simple. If a LGS is to survive it's got to find ways to offer it's customers more than they can get online. You can try to get WotC to make special exceptions to help you maintain your business model, but that's most likely a losing proposition in the long run. It's going to take more than just that. Especially in the case of incentives which wind up on Ebay for purchase regardless.
I can't speak for all other LGS owners. I can say, however, that I can understand why they'd sell only CCGs; in fact this entire post is about what places like Amazon are going to do to FLGSs. If customers go online for books, then you lose their business, and have less incentive to stock those books...
Re: Incentives
I do my best to incentivize my customers, maintaining a nice place to play and supporting the groups that are here and encouraging the formation of new groups. I bought the place because it was where I spent my youth gaming; it was going out of business and I didn't want to see the community disappear. The whole point of this post is, in essence, to get Wizards to help us to incentivize people to buy their books from us.
Re: Titanium Dragon:
Lessons in elementary economics aside (I'm well aware of what a free market economy is), I don't expect anything from Amazon. Amazon will continue to sell its books from its corporate perspective.
In terms of what Wizards can do: I've come up with (and emailed to Wizards) 15 seperate ideas for low-cost, high-visibility incentive/advertising products that may appeal to gamers. What Wizards can offer that bears investigation is their art and branding properties; placing those on ancillary products which can be offered with the books provides an exclusive that might provide *some* incentivization to purchase from an LGS. As an LGS owner, I'm even willing to purchase same.
In terms of contraction and expansion of the community, while it is true that D&D purchasers have expanded since 1999 (pre-3.0), it is my belief that the LGS and its communities are one of the core sources of such expansion. I know many of the people in my store who wind up buying new Core books are regulars who have come here for other games and decided to try out D&D; and many interested new players are introduced to the game by experienced folks.
Whether or not this is true on a grand scale is likely beyond the scope of anything but a very expensive marketing survey. However, it does serve to provide one explanation. Outside advertisement of D&D is minimal; it's mostly word-of-mouth and legacy branding that makes D&D a cultural icon.
It's unlikely that Amazon is taking a loss. What they are doing, however, is making less of a profit per book than is possible for any small retailer if they want to keep in business.
I never asked Amazon not to accept preorders--I accept preorders. I merely wish to be reassured that they won't recieve (and ship) the books before I get them. One of the primary current reasons I can sell books is because I can give them to customers on the day of release--at 12:01 AM if they want it. Every time someone gets an advance copy of the book and posts about it, and this happens a lot, it hurts my business.
Re: jgerman
So you're asking that everything be equal.. except for the things you want stacked in your favor? That is not a free market.
Point to you; but then again, my contention is that without something to assist the LGS to sell more books, we're going to get choked out of business. That may be the final result of a fully free market, but I'm hardly sanguine about the effects that an unrestricted free market has had on the economy to begin with as a whole. There's a reason I don't buy at Wal-Mart.
I provide a cradle for new gamers to cross-pollinate, I provide things that Amazon can't, things which definately improve Wizards' business and draw new gamers into their fold. In that sense of this argument, I'm not asking for a free lunch. I'm asking for something in return for the gaming space I keep open, the tables I have for players, the marketing that I do for Wizards. I'm even willing to pay for it.
It's unlikely that WotC is offering Amazon a higher discount unless it's based on volume in which case that is perfectly fair. Local stores generally get the same options from their distributors when they buy in bulk and would cry foul if they didn't.
Not from Wizards/Hasbro. Distributors aside for the moment, if I were to order from Wizards a mess of books, there's no incentive on my discount side. That may be Wizards protecting their distributors' discounts (though few distributors offer prices better than Wizards').
It's more unlikely that WotC is shipping the books earlier to different places, they aren't playing favorites. If Amazon gets the books first it's because it's because of logistics, not preferential treatment.
I don't think that Wizards is preferentially shipping books out early. Like yourself, I believe it's a logistics problem. I simply require that it be -fixed-.
As far as incentives, special promotions that can only be had at brick and mortar locations is becoming more and more likely to irritate customers than anything else. There are many gamers that aren't happy with their LGS and bristle at being forced to patronize them.
Are there really? There are very few things that you can't buy online that I sell at my store. What I'm asking for are optional incentives that are cool little things you can get from me easily that you can't get online. No one is *forced* to patronize an LGS. While it'd be excellent if Wizards did what UDE just did with Yu-Gi-Oh! Gold Series cards (released a set of cards which were only available through hobby shops), I don't expect that. I simply expect some help in terms of promotional materials.
What this boils down to is that LGS will have to step up their game to compete with online retailers. It's that simple. If a LGS is to survive it's got to find ways to offer it's customers more than they can get online. You can try to get WotC to make special exceptions to help you maintain your business model, but that's most likely a losing proposition in the long run. It's going to take more than just that. Especially in the case of incentives which wind up on Ebay for purchase regardless.
This LGS, at least, is stepping up its game. We -do- offer customers more than they can get online; the problem, of course, being that we're outclassed. Incentives that wind up on Ebay for purchase is an angle of competition which I'm ready to deal with, when it comes down to it, largely because it's illegal (or at least against the Wizards rules for such incentives) and out of the control of Wizards just as the preponderance of illegal PDF copies of their books is.
What it boils down to is that my contention is that the LGS is essential to the past and future of pen-and-paper gaming. I'm doing what I can; perhaps Wizards can do a bit itself.
I used to have the same attitude when I was younger, but when you help support a LGS (or 3 stores in my case) and they all cut and run, or dump all other product types in favor of CCG's you lose the desire to support any LGS, in favor of paying cheaper prices to a different source. Incidently if I want to flip through a product (much like I plan to do with the Keep on Shadowfell) I can go to Barnes & Nobles, I don't need a LGS for that.
I'm not saying that LGS' are bad, but I am tired of paying a higher price so that the owner of my LGS can sell his store and stock to another person for a profit and run off with the money or close shop and sell his stock on ebay or sell it all on/through amazon.
I have always supported the local gaming store. As it is I have been going to mine for 21 years now (Since i was 14). I get a 20% discount, but this guy made it financially.
However one particular store I used to support, even though I do not get a discount, screwed all their customers over, to the point they could not repay pre orders.
I have seen them all... problem arises when there are too many LGS in an area. I have seen several open up here over the years only to be squashed by my friend's store. Simply he is bigger, has more space, sponsors games, and works with people.
THE LGS must be supported, but the LGS must also have business smarts.
I also know the three owners of the three FLGSs within 75 miles of me in all directions. None of them turn a good profit on RPG books. Their profit comes from CCGs, Miniatures, Action Figures, and Comic books.
Heck, one FLGS only really turns a profit off of arts&crafts section, barely having enough customers in his area that buy minis/ccgs. Another converted into a MMO computer cafe with CCGs as a sidenote...
My least profitable items were RPG books. There is no return business on RPGs... Once a person has the book, they don't need another...
I tried to fight amazon, ebay, ect... I learned the truth is, all a FLGS can give is access to a variety of nice hobbies and a great setting for local gamers to come and game comfortably. Unfortunately, that doesn't pay the bills...
I tried to fight amazon, ebay, ect... I learned the truth is, all a FLGS can give is access to a variety of nice hobbies and a great setting for local gamers to come and game comfortably. Unfortunately, that doesn't pay the bills...
To make an FLGS profitable, you really need to find a way to make money off the gamers while they spend time there. I've seen a lot go the cyber cafe route; your ice cream parlor approach sounds cool.
I wonder what else could be done. Maybe a FLGS/restaurant...or FLGS/bar for the gamers above drinking age. Hell, an FLGS/strip club could be wildly popular. I dunno.
This is an object lesson. If you want to compete with the big boys, you need to be professional. In the past, local hobby shops were the only option for gamers, so local shops could get away with this. They can't anymore and some are feeling the squeeze as a result and don't know how to grow up.
Okay, now having said that, I'll say something else. Local hobby shops can provide something that Amazon et al simply -can't-. What local hobby shops can provide is a place for geeks to hang out and congregate and blend with their own kind. I know of local stores that have taken this idea and really ran with it - not only offering gaming tables (and, let me say, I know of one store that offered a gaming table in a highly cluttered, dark, damp, generally unpleasant environment - don't do that, be professional), sold food and drinks, rented computer games so people could have LAN parties, - you could also, maybe, do "cheesy movie wednesday night" and so forth (in other words, turn your store in the place to be for geeks).
If there's one thing I have noticed about several gaming stores that end up going out of business, it's the clutter. Its like some game store managers don't know how to run a business. They don't know how to make their stores a place people want to go to and want to be at. Another issue is lack of professional appearance by the store employees. Go to Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. and take notes.
I guess what I'm saying here is "if you can't compete on prices, then don't worry about prices - compete on what you can compete on and be the best there is at it". Many adult geeks make good money. They have the money to spend, they want a place to spend it.
In terms of what Wizards can do: I've come up with (and emailed to Wizards) 15 seperate ideas for low-cost, high-visibility incentive/advertising products that may appeal to gamers. What Wizards can offer that bears investigation is their art and branding properties; placing those on ancillary products which can be offered with the books provides an exclusive that might provide *some* incentivization to purchase from an LGS. As an LGS owner, I'm even willing to purchase same.
But why couldn't/wouldn't they give the same to Amazon? What incentive do they have for giving it only to the FLGS?
See, this sort of thinking fails because you aren't providing a service distinct FROM Amazon; you're just selling books. There's no reason at all that WotC should favor you over Amazon, or give you products for sale that Amazon doesn't.
If WotC is to give you anything, it needs to be for a service which Amazon does not provide; selling books is not something you do that Amazon doesn't do as well or better. What you CAN do is provide services, and these are things WotC CAN (and should, assuming they sell product) incentivise. Something like the FNM program for D&D sounds like a great idea... except, what exactly is the analog there which causes people to buy product on a weekly basis (or at the very least, a monthly one)?
THIS is what you need to come up with if you hope to survive - some way of sucking people into your stores and selling them product to do something. But the way D&D works, this seems unlikely at best.
In terms of contraction and expansion of the community, while it is true that D&D purchasers have expanded since 1999 (pre-3.0), it is my belief that the LGS and its communities are one of the core sources of such expansion. I know many of the people in my store who wind up buying new Core books are regulars who have come here for other games and decided to try out D&D; and many interested new players are introduced to the game by experienced folks.
You can believe this, but the failure of Alternity, a game which was only advertised in this way, failed. How many products which are only advertised in this manner are likely to succeed? Not many, I'd wager. I think the lesson of Alternity is that if you don't put it out there, outside of the FLGS, you just aren't going to get the sales you need for a successful product.
I never asked Amazon not to accept preorders--I accept preorders. I merely wish to be reassured that they won't recieve (and ship) the books before I get them. One of the primary current reasons I can sell books is because I can give them to customers on the day of release--at 12:01 AM if they want it. Every time someone gets an advance copy of the book and posts about it, and this happens a lot, it hurts my business.
But how often is that due to Amazon, specifically? Heck, I know a lot of the early Magic releases are due to FLGS's opening packs early.
Point to you; but then again, my contention is that without something to assist the LGS to sell more books, we're going to get choked out of business. That may be the final result of a fully free market, but I'm hardly sanguine about the effects that an unrestricted free market has had on the economy to begin with as a whole. There's a reason I don't buy at Wal-Mart.
The reason I don't buy at Wal-Mart is I can find stuff for cheaper elsewhere, and Wal-Mart often sells inferior products. Of course, Oregon doesn't even HAVe many Wal-Marts, partially because they create poverty and rely on poor people to sustain, and thus while they can survive in very high population areas and poor areas, they can't survive where I am.
This LGS, at least, is stepping up its game. We -do- offer customers more than they can get online; the problem, of course, being that we're outclassed. Incentives that wind up on Ebay for purchase is an angle of competition which I'm ready to deal with, when it comes down to it, largely because it's illegal (or at least against the Wizards rules for such incentives) and out of the control of Wizards just as the preponderance of illegal PDF copies of their books is.
A lot of the incentives end up online secondhand; I get a FNM card, then I sell it to someone who sells it online. Many companies offer you money/trade ins for such, such as StarCityGames, and while I'm sure a good number ARE illegal, I suspect a lot are simply being resold.
To make an FLGS profitable, you really need to find a way to make money off the gamers while they spend time there. I've seen a lot go the cyber cafe route; your ice cream parlor approach sounds cool.
I wonder what else could be done. Maybe a FLGS/restaurant...or FLGS/bar for the gamers above drinking age. Hell, an FLGS/strip club could be wildly popular. I dunno.
There is a Magic-themed bar over in Japan, apparently.
And as for the strip club... all I have to say is chainmail bikini, and that that is a really friendly local gaming store.
But yes, essentially all that the FLGS provides the customer is services, and that's how you're going to need to sucker people in to make money off them.
Re: jgerman
Point to you; but then again, my contention is that without something to assist the LGS to sell more books, we're going to get choked out of business. That may be the final result of a fully free market, but I'm hardly sanguine about the effects that an unrestricted free market has had on the economy to begin with as a whole. There's a reason I don't buy at Wal-Mart.
I provide a cradle for new gamers to cross-pollinate, I provide things that Amazon can't, things which definately improve Wizards' business and draw new gamers into their fold. In that sense of this argument, I'm not asking for a free lunch. I'm asking for something in return for the gaming space I keep open, the tables I have for players, the marketing that I do for Wizards. I'm even willing to pay for it.
Not from Wizards/Hasbro. Distributors aside for the moment, if I were to order from Wizards a mess of books, there's no incentive on my discount side. That may be Wizards protecting their distributors' discounts (though few distributors offer prices better than Wizards').
I don't think that Wizards is preferentially shipping books out early. Like yourself, I believe it's a logistics problem. I simply require that it be -fixed-.
Are there really? There are very few things that you can't buy online that I sell at my store. What I'm asking for are optional incentives that are cool little things you can get from me easily that you can't get online. No one is *forced* to patronize an LGS. While it'd be excellent if Wizards did what UDE just did with Yu-Gi-Oh! Gold Series cards (released a set of cards which were only available through hobby shops), I don't expect that. I simply expect some help in terms of promotional materials.
This LGS, at least, is stepping up its game. We -do- offer customers more than they can get online; the problem, of course, being that we're outclassed. Incentives that wind up on Ebay for purchase is an angle of competition which I'm ready to deal with, when it comes down to it, largely because it's illegal (or at least against the Wizards rules for such incentives) and out of the control of Wizards just as the preponderance of illegal PDF copies of their books is.
What it boils down to is that my contention is that the LGS is essential to the past and future of pen-and-paper gaming. I'm doing what I can; perhaps Wizards can do a bit itself.
I don't necessarily agree that the LGS is essential any longer, not in it's current form (and it's arguable that it ever was but that's another topic). Personally I believe a shift in focus form retailing games to selling an experience is what's in order. Look at Korean board game cafes for an example.
That being said, don't get me wrong: I want you to stay in business (assuming you're a *good* LGS which seems fairly evident) I just think your first and second points aren't quite fair to ask, and that your third isn't enough.
The injustice of B&M pricing is something across the field, but it is not malicious. On-line stores are able to sell cheaper because they do not have to pay store employees or deal with store upkeep. Lower prices passed on to customers.
So my advice to you is twofold: 1) Appeal to the impulse shopper. On-line books take a while to come in. Make your product irrestiable to go home without, and make sure the Hot New Thing is well-stocked & 2) Create firm customer loyalty. How you do that, I don't know. Just make them feel obligied (positively or negatively) enough to buy from you.
Where have you seen evidence of this?
Nowhere. Absolutely nowhere.
Other than, you know, a "source", with the, you know, "inside source".
Of course, taking that into account, there are a lot of other minor comments that make a lot more sense with that in mind, and various design elements that make even more sense considering it. Like the statement about elements of 4E being designed to work with the online elements (which is supported by how much of the design would be a lot easier to manage with a computer constantly tracking ongoing damage and bonuses from other powers and having buttons to use encounter and daily powers that become inactive when used and such), and the heavy initial focus on the D&DI until it appeared it was going to be late, and of course the expansion of Gleemax. And of course it tracks with what Ryan Dancey said in that interview about a new type of game that is not a TRPG or MMORPG but that is players online.
I do not expect to convince anyone of anything here. It remains I have heard of that, and I see the evidence in what WotC is doing.
I understand smaller stores don't have the volume to deal directly with WotC, and that adding in a middleman who has to pay their own expenses and gain modest profits means that the small places can't do the same discount level as the mass retailers. Amazon is one, but chain bookstores and places like Wal*Mart as well fit this. But that's ultimately to WotC's detriment if FLGSs close. A lot already went out of business a few years back when WotC put gaming stores everywhere. Then dumped them. And the few that are left are focusing heavily on some other aspect with better margins, be it CCGs, comics, or something like paintball.
A FLGS brings effectively free advertising to WotC. And losing that means they have to pay more to advertise directly.
Regards,
=Blue(23)
To make an FLGS profitable, you really need to find a way to make money off the gamers while they spend time there. I've seen a lot go the cyber cafe route; your ice cream parlor approach sounds cool.
I wonder what else could be done. Maybe a FLGS/restaurant...or FLGS/bar for the gamers above drinking age. Hell, an FLGS/strip club could be wildly popular. I dunno.
first can I just say you are my hero...
for you, or for anyone that comes up with a place I can see nude girls, play D&D and drink beer...now back to what I said before, and was ignored...
D&D game day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If all the LGSs go out of business, it will NOT be the end of D&D. I'm an old fart, and back in the day there were no such thing as game stores where you could go and play in them. There were book stores and hobby stores. They sold D&D just fine, and we found other places to play. I've played at friends's homes, friends' friend's homes, even a local library. LGS as places to play are not required for D&D to continue to exist.
As for the DDI game table, people are already playing D&D online. They use chat rooms, AIM, MIRC, OpenRPG and others. This is WotC's way of letting people who live far away from each other to play. While socializing in person is great, your game store just can not get me in a game with my friends; WizO Shadow, who lives thousands of miles away, and former WizO Winter who lives overseas. As much as I'd love to play face to face with them, it's just not possible save an occasional game convention we happen to be at.
I used to have game store loyalties. One store is gone now, but I can't say that my not going there anymore had anything to do with it. High gas prices forced me from going there every week to once or twice a month to never for the past year or so.
Do you have some sort of membership program? I know of places that give $10 off next purchase for each cumulative $100 spent. One place would charge a membership fee for a card to give 10% off each purchase.
Have you checked out Gleemax? That's WotC's inititive to help support the local game store. It's still in the Alpha phase, but people will get events you put on your page propegated to their personal calandars. (IIRC.)
So, they are trying to help the LGS. I'm sure there are other things in the works, but not working in the office there, I have no clue.
Having said that, it's my opinion that it's not up to WotC to prop up other people's businesses, be it a LGS or another publisher. WotC needs to focus thier business on WotC. Sure, it's nice that other businesses can exist because WotC exists, but the primary goal for WotC is to make money for WotC. It's up to the businesses to come up with incentives. Sure, feebees are nice, but is WotC the only company this request is being made to?
Game stores need to be creative themselves. It's their job to bring in customers. Yes, there are costs. Advertising and such. When you say you advertise D&D, are you really putting ads in the paper? Cable tv? Or do you advertise your store? Do people come in looking for D&D, or do you have to direct them to it? (Hey, have you guys ever heard of Dungeons & Dragons? We have the game right over here...)
Here are some helpful suggestions, feel free to use or ignore them.
Do you have a used section? Perhaps you can offer a free or steeply discounted price on the used stuff when people pre-order or buy 4e. I'm sure there's things in your store that just aren't moving. This would be a good way to move some of that stuff to make room for new stuff.
My favoirte game store did a promo, I don't recall how it worked, but.. this might be the idea they used. They'd gather all the stuff they were trying to get rid of. They might have added some "new" stuff to the pile as well. Then during a specific event/day/week anyone spending over $50 could draw a card from a treasure chest, and the card would be a number to select from a group of prizes, or the name of the prize or some such. Some cards might just be a 10% off coupon. (Not part of "take half, if that option is used.)
One card might be a "win half the remaining prizes", giving incentive to buy more stuff.
You could have Theme Nights. Every D&D game (Or even any game played that night) must follow the same theme. Dragon night would have every game involve dragons in some way. Night of the Undead would have an undead theme.
Hold D&D trivia games, with the winner getting the coveted "DM Veto" award. Craft a special token (Not to leave the store premises, of course) which allows a player to over-rule one DM decision once during this or the next game session. Smart DMs would want to participate to be sure THEY get the veto vote and keep it away from the players.
I keep hearing folks say if they had the money or won the lottery or whatnot, they'd want to open a game store. I had that dream once, but that stopped real quick when I realized it would be work. I'd HAVE to be there every day. It would be a real grind. Better to just hang out at a game store whenever I want as long as I want rather than actually own one.
It's nice to know that you feel your money is more important than the socialization aspect of a gaming store. I feel differently. Almost everyone has something where the atmosphere, convenience, or even taste of what they are paying for is worth paying a bit more money, though. For me, the gaming store and gaming materials are one such commodity.
Damn straight my money is more important, I got money I gotta save up for when I move out of here. And ever heard of friends and a Library? And all so who says you can't still use th gaming store for all the social stuff?
Damn straight my money is more important, I got money I gotta save up for when I move out of here. And ever heard of friends and a Library? And all so who says you can't still use th gaming store for all the social stuff?
And is always your choice...but if the gaming stores don't make money...how are they going to stay open to have the social stuff?
Also some people brought up that certain place release D&D books early...and from what I understand Amazon fixed that problem...though it still remains with B&N and the Borders(atleast around here). And some how I doubt it is a logistic problem as the Borders and the LGS is not even a mile apart yet the Borders release the books atleast a wekk before the date...sometimes even two weeks. So I don't know how it can be a logistic problem.
Between such maneuvers and the DDI I think we'll see a lot more FGS close in the coming year. I don't think WotC has really thought out their business plan with all the variables included. If it gets to the point that the FGS can't make money they'll stop carrying the products, most of them don't make a lot of money to begin with. Losing miniature sales, dice sales, etc will make their profits even more threadbare.
I've known "Mr. Gambit" as we'll affectionately call him, for over half my natural lifespan, and I'm also an old bag of bones, so let me tell you, even when I'm unemployed, I have money to spend.
To be honest with you, without the Gambit and it's previous incarnations under other names, I wouldn't have met half the people who play in my RPGs now.
The assertion that FLGSes don't have a place in the gaming world is absurd. I've NEVER ordered a D+D book from Amazon, and I don't INTEND to order a D+D book from Amazon.
The truth of the matter is that Amazon buys in such bulk that they can accept a lower profit margin. To which I say "Go suck eggs." There are things I will buy from Amazon.com, but not at the expense of the networking and group of friends who gather at the Gamer's Gambit.
That can't be replaced. If you're spending money on gasoline to get to your LGS, try stopping there on your way home from work and buying your books there instead of waiting for them to show up at your door. It's different with subscription periodicals, but then, the benefit of the subscription periodical is inherent in the subscription.
To those of you who keep talking about the "Free Market Economy," there's a book by Upton Sinclair called "The Jungle." I suggest you start reading. That's what happens in an unregulated free market economy.
To Wizards, I suggest the following avenues:
1) Support Local Gaming Stores not with your marketing campaigns but with a continuous subscription program that rewards loyalty over volume. The longer you subscribe to their program, the higher the profit margin for the local retailer.
2) Milton Friedman is a big fat liar. Corporations have a social duty. Use the power of Dungeons and Dragons for Good! Have D+D charity gamedays at LGSes. You pay, but your money goes to charities like Save the Children and The Mayo Clinic. The store won't make money directly, but they'll be seen as valuble in the local community, and the LGS and Wizards will become heroes. And you can't buy that kind of marketing ever.
Everyone wins.
3) Milton Friedman is a big fat liar II: Wizards should be offering local gaming stores incentives to deliver their product to consumers. For every X that an LGS sells, they should get Y reduced from the price of the next product. Give out spifs for selling hard to sell books, and bonuses for volume. Treat the LGS'es like car dealerships and Amazon like a warehouse lot. They don't get the spif or the bonus, because there's no salesperson hawking the product.
And is always your choice...but if the gaming stores don't make money...how are they going to stay open to have the social stuff?
Simple: I buy food, rent space, and buy comics and cards from the place.
Every last game store owner I've asked has said that their money's made from... well, well nigh everything but RPGs.
I do not blame Amazon or WOTC though. This is a business and I am not sure if they get the game stores part in it all. So it is up to the gamer. If you go to a store and want it to stay open for business, buy from them for the love of god! Listen it is not like you are spending money on girls most of the time. ;) Support your buddy who allows you to run games in his shop. After he is closed down you will see what I mean.
There all business, they don't care about you on a personal level just as a customer.
My local game stores are also comic book stores, they carry what will sell regardless of the interists of any one customer.
I say the Amazons and Wallmarts of the world are more my friend then small locations, not because they truely care about me but because it's in there best interist to be...
And for all those of you who do buy your D+D books on Amazon, etc, I hope you like rats in your sausages, because that's the message of Sinclairs book.
I don't know a name of anyone working for Amazon. Do you?
I know that it's not really market sense, but I'd rather buy from someone I know and like, then someone I didn't know.